Chris Kresser and healing gut problems

[alexjuice]

Chris Kresser. I see him quoted often around the web, not just here. Has anyone talked with him? I think he does phone consults, yes?

 

I read his reflux stuff and really need help coming up with a dietary plan that meets my body's needs without crippling it.

 

I may talk to my mom if she'll pay for me to speak with him.

[Nadia]

I've considered doing a phone consultation with him as well. He just seems to really research his stuff and gives good explanations. It might be worth a shot.

 

What is your diet like now, Alex? Did you continue taking the magnesium even with the memory problems?

 

All of this can be really frustrating because:

 

1. There are so many differing opinions out there about what is good and what is bad.

2. Different people have different needs

3. Finding what works for you is a lengthy process. You can have immediate reactions to foods, but there is stuff you won't know is working or not working until you try it for at least a few months.

4. Finally, some dietary choices may help for some issues while exacerbating others (for example, the way you find the bone broths too activating).

[Nadia]

Did you read this on Chris Kresser's site?: http://chriskresser.com/beyond-paleo-moving-from-a-paleo-diet-to-a-paleo-template

 

I think it's interesting in relation to SCD and GAPS, because of the elimination idea. The problem is finding a basic intro diet that will work for YOU, as the GAPS diet seems not to. I think you'd have to find a basic diet that covered your nutrition needs that would allow your gut to heal and really, really stick to it come hell or high water for at least two or three months and the elimination of your symptoms before introducing new stuff in a very slow way.

 

I have a friend who has severe problems with digestion who is now up to only about 8 or 9 foods she can digest. After about 4 months! She is determined to make it work, and slowly, she is healing!! At first she had to puree everything, including meat. I know this is no happy answer, but maybe you should try starting VERY conservative. The question is, what do you think you best tolerate?

 

[As an interesting aside (not sure I've mentioned this before), her mother has the same condition she has (variably diagnosed as celiac disease, leaky gut, irritable bowel syndrome, etc... they can never find what exactly it is), and was having hallucinations and all sorts of weird mental and emotional issues. She was diagnosed with schizophrenia and they put her on all kinds of psychiatric meds and she was hospitalized. Her daughter rescued her by taking her home and putting her on the SCD diet. In a few months, she was normal again and back to work. Basically, her mind was starved because she had so many digestive issues.]

[compsports]

Chris Kresser. I see him quoted often around the web, not just here. Has anyone talked with him? I think he does phone consults, yes?

 

I read his reflux stuff and really need help coming up with a dietary plan that meets my body's needs without crippling it.

 

I may talk to my mom if she'll pay for me to speak with him.

 

Hi Alex,

 

If I could afford it, I would work with him in a heartbeat. Like any professional, he certainly isn't perfect but he comes pretty close:)

 

In listening to his podcasts and reading articles on sites, what greatly impresses me about him is he goes by what the evidence seems to say and does not stick to a particular dogma. If he feels that typical alternative practices like food allergy testing aren't reliable, he will say so. And he will call BS on conventional medicine such as the over prescribing of most meds.

 

He also realizes there is not a one size fits all type of practice and would work with you to find the right diet that fits you. He has spoken out against this mentality that seems to exists alot in the paleo community.

 

Unfortunately, because he has become very popular, he no longer offers free 15 minute consultations in which you could ask him more questions on the phone and figure out if he was right for you. Perhaps he will respond to email, I don't know.

 

I can't really fault him for that as I think he only works a 20 hour work week and needed to fit his paying patient into timely appointments. By the way, he spends the rest of his time doing free podcasts and doing research so he can maintain his website.

 

By the way, I have no affiliation with him and was not paid to write this post:) But when I was thinking about working with him, of course, I wanted to make sure I was not making a decision prematurely. So I emailed someone on PP who had worked with him and was very happy with his services.

 

Hope this helps.

 

CS

[alexjuice]

I've been reading Kresser's stuff on digestion/GERD. I'm gonna talk to him. $50/15min... No wonder he works 20 hr weeks.

 

I'll let ya guys know.

 

Also, I've been throwing the kitcken sink at my problems so thinks get better and worse at the same time. Typically American of me. Ready. Fire. Aim.

 

CS, Thanks for sharing the opinions you've gathered about him. He passes my smell test too.

[compsports]

I've been reading Kresser's stuff on digestion/GERD. I'm gonna talk to him. $50/15min... No wonder he works 20 hr weeks.

 

I'll let ya guys know.

 

Also, I've been throwing the kitcken sink at my problems so thinks get better and worse at the same time. Typically American of me. Ready. Fire. Aim.

 

CS, Thanks for sharing the opinions you've gathered about him. He passes my smell test too.

 

Hi Alex,

 

You're very welcome.

 

Oh, I do the kitchen sink routine also. LOL.

 

Let us know what happens with Kresser. Wow, $50 for a 15 minute consult. Glad I got a free one before he started charging for them.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

Interesting stuff. I made this its own topic.

[alexjuice]

Hey Alto,

 

Good idea to spin this off. I spent a lot of time reading his stuff on GERD and digestion. The key articles on that topic can be accessed here:

 

http://chriskresser.com/heartburn

 

Like i said, im on the schedule for next week. Problem is I don't know how I even get my side out in 15 minutes let alone give amp,e time for his response. But I'm sure I'll figure out a way to get the info I need...

 

Alex

 

ps - one of the posts identified the doc incorrectly. In spinning off this thread, you probably saw that. His name is Kresser rather than Kesser as it appears i thread title. Just letting ya know. Cheers.

[Nadia]

There is so much good info on his site... but it's true, I was also thinking the 15 mins thing... it's sooo little time! I've been wondering about my blood sugar lately because I've had a couple of days with really low BP and just feeling really faint, and having some pretty strong reactions to sweet foods, so I wondered if it had to do with my blood sugar. The thought was sparked by one of his articles, but also because it's something I've wondered about for years, especially when I was on Celexa and had weight gain and was tired all the time. My tests always come back "normal", but Kresser says normal isn't necessarily normal. I compared my latest tests to where he says you should be and I'm in a borderline too high range for what he says is best.

 

He has a whole thing you can do to check your blood sugar at home and I'm thinking of doing it. I figure if I ever pay for a 15 min. appt. with him I'd want to do as much as I can on my own with the info he gives first.

 

But I wonder if there's a way to do it with the GERD? Did you ever try the baking soda in a glass of water thing, for example?

[alexjuice]

I talked to Chris Kresser yesterday for 12 minutes.

 

He is a nice guy, as nice as I can assess in that time. He thought that my case would require more time. His office emailed today some packet of info to fill out. Also Kresser wants me to do some labs. He sent a requisition. Then we are supposed to have a follow up 50 minute session after he has looked through everything I send back.

 

I have not yet looked through any of it nor do I have a clue what it will cost to continue to consult with him.

 

I've been moderately occupied the last couple of days and just feel swamped and exhausted. I long for the days before the crap when I could do a whole day's worth of stuff.

 

Alex

 

Ps... I didn't know what to call him. I opened by awkwardly calling him Chris but closed with Dr. I have not encountered anyone before Kresser with that collection of letters behind his name. I will just assume going forward that doctor is an appropriate way to address him. He was a good guy though. We briefly talked about how so many independent thinkers in medicine, nutrition and wellness seem concentrated in the bay area, a observation that I put forward and he concurred with. Also, he will be in my town next month for conference but I learned of this from his website. Unfortunately, he didnt offer to meet up for coffee or kombucha. :-)

[Altostrata]

Hmmmm...he sent a requisition for lab work? He can do that as an acupuncturist?

 

alex, you are within your rights to ask him how much a 50-minute consultation will cost, and how often he expects you'll have appointments.

 

Also, if he's going to be in your town, why not suggest a face-to-face meeting for the consultation? You could also get the 3 minutes he owes you.

[alexjuice]

I think so about fhe requisititon. But i only glanced at the stuff he sent. Yea, I'm going to figure the costs before going forward. Im not trying to imply he was unclear about his costs, just that I've only glanced at the documents. I assume all the details are there and I'll take em into account.

 

He does owe me three minutes. Usually that's not worth mention but in this case i got 20 % less Kresser than I paid for. But if he can help me, I'll forgive him the $10.

 

As for this paleo convention, I am considering attending or trying to figure out the roster of attendees and see if there is anyone else I would want to talk to. Or maybe just go, or loiter around, nd try to meet some of the alt health professionals in my town, whom thus far I haven't been able to find hence the reliance on the telephone... Or, as you suggest, try to arrange an in person consult with him.

 

I have to look into it and have been pooped, honestly.

[alexjuice]

He has a whole thing you can do to check your blood sugar at home and I'm thinking of doing it. I figure if I ever pay for a 15 min. appt. with him I'd want to do as much as I can on my own with the info he gives first.

 

It's pretty easy to get a reading. I bought a glucose monitor for about $20 or maybe less. Fasting is obviously an easy measure to obtain upon awakening. It's pretty uncomplicated to check it at one hr, two hrs, etc. after taking in carbs as well. So go for it, Nadia.

 

But I wonder if there's a way to do it with the GERD? Did you ever try the baking soda in a glass of water thing, for example?

 

I tried the baking soda thing and I don't really know what to make of the result. I didnt really react but I'm also not sold that I have low stomach acid, since I've a low tolerance for Betaine HCl, especially in the evening.

 

The thing, and we all encounter this, is that my problem is a problem lacking an understanding. So I don't know why this stuff is happening, other than the stuff you and I know. Basically, I'm recovering from a destabilizing DRUGGING. Or perhaps better said that I'm recovery from the destabilization wrought by the abrupt cessation of my DRUGGING after years and years of much interaction and reliance on ohsomany Drugs (and a few drugs).

 

Exactly what is happening in my brain is not known and not detectable. Theories we have, but then each of us was on different meds, combos of meds, at different ages, with different comorbities, different geneticss, different environments. No researcher has yet put forth an 'Alex theory'... Certainly, the things we are learning are helpful but so much in each individual case remains trial/error...

 

If I had to simply guess, I'd say my gut problems probably have the most to do with microorganism imbalance. I was on antibiotics for several months for an injury -- unnecessarily of course but I was so young in my recovery, still groggy and still trusting. Then under stress when I changed benzo mix, going several days on very short sleep and attending job interviews after a stressful family trip.

 

My gut just failed and in my w/d state, other systems failed thereafter as the body went red alert on the gastro stuff. It is getting better. For a while I was wrecked, couldnt eat, would faint/collapse, couldnt look at a monitor without my lips and face burning. I am getting better, tolerating digestive enzymes/foods better. I am speaking better. Still a guessing game, of course. Also, I am learning (slowly but bestIcan) what still not to consume...

 

The thing of it is... I'm tired of visiting arrogant doctors for them to guess at me, and guess with a detached and carefree attitude toward my near15 yr ordeal the blame for which falls on their profession. I can guess at the problem myself. And since nobody knows better than guessing, it's just trying to find a couple of folks that guess with better batting averages. I have been lucky to have the opportunity to speak to a few people with some understanding, compassion and good ideas but, unfortunately, they are all in faraway lands and can only do so much. Here at home, there's a troubling absence of understanding. That's just the world Alex lives in. That's Alex's reality, though he doesn't have to like it. (In the real world Alex only so rarely refers to himseld in the 3rd, FYI.)

[compsports]

"""Exactly what is happening in my brain is not known and not detectable. Theories we have, but then each of us was on different meds, combos of meds, at different ages, with different comorbities, different geneticss, different environments. No researcher has yet put forth an 'Alex theory'... Certainly, the things we are learning are helpful but so much in each individual case remains trial/error...""

 

I totally relate to this. To momentarily digress, I am dealing with chronic sinusitus that is causing trouble big time. Nasal irrigation which works for most people does not work for me. In fact, I am convinced my condition got worse due to that. Anyway, I totally hear what you are saying and definitely understand your frustrations.

 

""If I had to simply guess, I'd say my gut problems probably have the most to do with microorganism imbalance. I was on antibiotics for several months for an injury -- unnecessarily of course but I was so young in my recovery, still groggy and still trusting. Then under stress when I changed benzo mix, going several days on very short sleep and attending job interviews after a stressful family trip. ""

 

Alex, forgive me if I have asked this before but have you tried probiotics and if so, did that help? Gianna on the Beyonds Med Blog talks about how she used them to help heal her gut.

 

""The thing of it is... I'm tired of visiting arrogant doctors for them to guess at me, and guess with a detached and carefree attitude toward my near15 yr ordeal the blame for which falls on their profession. I can guess at the problem myself. And since nobody knows better than guessing, it's just trying to find a couple of folks that guess with better batting averages. I have been lucky to have the opportunity to speak to a few people with some understanding, compassion and good ideas but, unfortunately, they are all in faraway lands and can only do so much. Here at home, there's a troubling absence of understanding. That's just the world Alex lives in. That's Alex's reality, though he doesn't have to like it. (In the real world Alex only so rarely refers to himseld in the 3rd, FYI.)""

 

As one who share your frustrations, I know this won't make you feel better. But in listening to doctors who had the "aha" experience about the paleo diet, they are simply trained in a certain way and it doesn't matter what the evidence says. For example, one doctor who had this experience said many times, it takes 15 years for the evidence from the scientific community to make its way to doctors.

 

So you factor this in and the time limitations, you're going to have these experiences unfortunately and it is very frustrating.

 

Actually, now that I think about this some more, I wonder if this really is a time issue. Naturopathic physicians takes all the time in the world with patients and they still come up with some theories that are a bunch of BS.

 

I am wondering if it is more of the inability to be objective. I can't remember if it was Chris Masterjohn or Matt LaLonde who said this but one of them said that as scientists, they have to challenge themselves to not get dogmatic and remain open to information that would cause them to reevaluate a situation. Sadly, I don't see healthcare professionals doing this.

 

CS

[Altostrata]

Alex, I would definitely check out the convention, if I had the energy. At the very least, it will be intellectually stimulating.

[Nadia]

The thing of it is... I'm tired of visiting arrogant doctors for them to guess at me, and guess with a detached and carefree attitude toward my near15 yr ordeal the blame for which falls on their profession. I can guess at the problem myself. And since nobody knows better than guessing, it's just trying to find a couple of folks that guess with better batting averages. I have been lucky to have the opportunity to speak to a few people with some understanding, compassion and good ideas but, unfortunately, they are all in faraway lands and can only do so much. Here at home, there's a troubling absence of understanding. That's just the world Alex lives in. That's Alex's reality, though he doesn't have to like it. (In the real world Alex only so rarely refers to himseld in the 3rd, FYI.)

 

Alex, you crack me up! You really have to write a book about your experience. I love the "ohsomany Drugs (and a few drugs)", and your description about not knowing what to call Chris Kresser, you made me laugh out loud.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment above. That is exactly how I feel. You really have a way with words. And in the past few months, I have to say, without really knowing you, that it seems like you are coming out from under some dark cloud and expanding (not sure how else to put it). Watch out world!

[alexjuice]

Well, my Chris Kresser experience has not gone as expected. I need to finish correspondence with his office, which will happen on Monday and then I'll update the group.

 

Basically, I've been surprised (downside surprise) by how he conducts his billing and promotes his consultation.

 

My advice to anyone considering his $50/15 min deal: I'd hold off.

 

Elaboration after the weekend.

 

Alex

[alexjuice]

Alex, I would definitely check out the convention, if I had the energy. At the very least, it will be intellectually stimulating.

 

I looked at the schedule for PaleoFx Conference but couldn't find any information on ticket prices. Which annoyed me.

 

Also the attendees definitely seem more to fitness/athlete end of the spectrum. Several of the key speakers feature themselves shirtless on their flagship blogs and websites. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

The thing is also in March, perhaps during our annual music festival. Well, we have 2 music festivals. This is the more annoying one during which the city is overrun with cigarette-smoking recording artists, producers and industry types. In other words, LA moves in for a week.

 

So right now, also considering my irration with Mr. Kresser, I am doubtful for the conference. But reserve, as always, right to flipflop on the matter.

 

Alex

[alexjuice]

Alex, you crack me up! You really have to write a book about your experience. I love the "ohsomany Drugs (and a few drugs)", and your description about not knowing what to call Chris Kresser, you made me laugh out loud.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment above. That is exactly how I feel. You really have a way with words. And in the past few months, I have to say, without really knowing you, that it seems like you are coming out from under some dark cloud and expanding (not sure how else to put it). Watch out world!

 

Wow, Nadia, what a nice thing to say. I feel somewhat like I'm coming out from the cloud's shadow. This feeling has not tended to last so far, though one day it will come to stay. Hopefully soon. Still, just a wonderful thing to say. Thanks, Nadia.

[alexjuice]

I've decided not to work with Chris Kresser. Quickly, here is why:

 

1. I registered for a 15minute consult for $50.

 

2. I got a confirmation email with his office asking for some information from my debit card. 'twas a 335 word email and attached were patient and financial policies, these I did not read.

 

2. I spoke superficially with Kresser and he recommended we work together. Said to expect an email from his office, that my issues would require labs and time. Recd I submit lab sample then we schedule a 50 minute follow up. Said his office would email info. I said good.

 

4. I got email. A requisition and a number of questionnaires. The lab order came through a Florida intermediary but Chris Kresser signed as referring physician...

 

5. I checked my bank to see my account debited $50 and, the next day, a second debit in the amount of $495. I was displeased.

 

6. Checking the documents, I found in an attached file the policy of debit card deduction and the costs.

 

7. This disturbed me. It seemed the 15 minute consultation served no purpose but to direct me into the sales funnel and get my debit card information. The costs and policies were not included in the body text of any of the emails I received from his office.

 

8. Ultimately, it wasn't a practice I was comfortable with, the auto-debiting of my card for services in advance of the services or even, in this case, the scheduling of a consultation. Also, I can get labs ordered myself through my doc which will go through insurance and save me a lot of money.

 

9. Two final notes. I think Kresser seems committed to doing good work, outside the box. I commend him for this. Second, it seems he operates like an Internet marketer more than an orthodox health practioner. I have talked to numerous health professionals via phone and email and my least comfortable experience was with mr. Kresser.

 

10. Good luck to him. But I will look for a functional medicine type in my area for that kind of money.

 

11. I have requested reimbursement of $495.00 while the $50 for the 15 minute (12 and change in my case) is a sunk cost.

 

So, if you want to consult with Kresser, go for it. Just be prepared to spend $545 (no ins accepted) to speak for about 60 minutes and do some labs.

 

That's that on my experience.

 

Alex

[Barbarannamated]

 

Alex, you crack me up! You really have to write a book about your experience. I love the "ohsomany Drugs (and a few drugs)", and your description about not knowing what to call Chris Kresser, you made me laugh out loud.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment above. That is exactly how I feel. You really have a way with words. And in the past few months, I have to say, without really knowing you, that it seems like you are coming out from under some dark cloud and expanding (not sure how else to put it). Watch out world!

 

Wow, Nadia, what a nice thing to say. I feel somewhat like I'm coming out from the cloud's shadow. This feeling has not tended to last so far, though one day it will come to stay. Hopefully soon. Still, just a wonderful thing to say. Thanks, Nadia.

 

I second Nadia's opinion

[Altostrata]

That's really too bad, alex. You should write Kresser directly and tell him your reaction to his business practices. He won't be in business for long if he keeps on doing that -- his reputation will go down the tubes.

[Nadia]

That is SO disappointing to hear about Kresser. I would definitely complain and let them know why you won't be using his services. That's great he became successful, but he's going to go quickly downhill if he keeps that up. This reminds me of the ayurveda doctor I was referred to... so many friends said he was amazing, and then he just turned out to be a cookie cutter naturopath charging rich women (and unfortunately me) really high prices for common sense advice.

[alexjuice]

I wrote him, his office anyway, explaining my reasons for discomfort. Boils down to lack of transparancy on service costs, at least to the extent I am accustomed. I don't think he is a scam artist, but I don't think I'll be working with him.

 

I don't know if he saw my email.

 

I might post my message... I am on my mothers computer and can't get into my mail.

 

Disappointed, sure. But I am choosing to be the boss of my healthcare. I finally learned the lesson and sometimes I'm just gonna let one go and not worry too much about it. If anyone else wants to work with Kresser, lemme know how it goes.

[alexjuice]

Quick Update:

 

Chris Kresser's office agreed to refund my bank account in the amount $470. The money is not in transit or in my account, according to my banker at the 1-800 #.

 

They agreed to refund last week, Monday or Tuesday, so I am uncertain on the delay. Also they won't refund the full $495 because they incurred costs in setting up some paperwork for me and they value this at $25. So between the consult and $25 difference, total expenditure = $75 (after I get my money refunded.)

 

If the money is not on the way by Wednesday, I'll open a dispute with my bank and takeback the whole $495 and possible contact the California AG's office contigent on my mood come then.

 

Cheers,

Akex

[Altostrata]

$25 in additional charges ????!!! Shadier all the time.

[Altostrata]

[Nadia]

Right on, Alto!

[alexjuice]

[EDIT: Correspondence removed.]

 

 

I saw Chris's response to Alto's post. He had 3 points.

 

1. I should have read his attached patient documents. I'll concede this one.

 

2. He explained to me ("every patient [he] speaks to") his billing policy on the phone. I dispute this. Up in the thread I mention my uncertainty about costs after talking with Chris and my surprise after finding my account debited.

 

3. His upfront billing and $25 cancellation charge to cover costs in preparing a chart are standard medical practices; perhaps he only means the $25 cancellation charge is standard medical practice. Well, I've never been billed in advance or charged for a chart. Cancellation before an appt without sufficient notice has resulted in a charge but that couldn't apply here (he has a six week waiting list and we had no appt scheduled). So I've never encountered these practices.

 

Anyway, I'm ready to put the matter to bed; I got $470 returned to my account today.

 

Chris appears to be a smart Health Detective (his description of his occupation) with a good business sense and a good product, probably. Seems like he's got a good lot of folks happy to pay for the product.

[alexjuice]

So on to happier things... ;-)

[baseball109]

Hi

I'm new here and found this post when googling to see what Chris Kresser's history has been like with other patients. Like you I've been really impressed with his research but have also done the introductory session and been extremely disturbed by his aggressive business practices. Makes me really wonder-I've been to highly reputable and busy doctors and surgeons that don't charge up front and in this 'unlimited' style. Good professionals shouldn't behave like that.

Well done for asking for a refund. I've also had the second charge posted to my account and had extremely rude and pushy emails from his admin staff. Am very tempted to also cancel my treatment with him.

As with you though, I'll be really disappointed. Actually have quite a bit of faith in the guy based on his posts and podcasts but handing over credit card details and then being billed large amounts for very little seems like a pretty clear warning bell.

I'll let you know if I do go through with my case review though and explain how it went

[alexjuice]

Despite my billing dispute with Kresser I use his site all the time. I don't advise working with him, but everyone gets to make their own decisions.

 

One thing I am very cautious about due to my experience in w/d is trying interventions at "normal" strength. So in my case, whether with a doctor or alternative practitioner, I put caution ahead of expediency and use fractional doses or gradually implement changes due to sensitivity. Unfortunately, with the exemption of one or two physicians I've consulted with via telephone, verbally telling the doc that I am hypersensitive or have autonomic NS unpredictability seems to enter one ear and exit the other without a register.

 

That's been my experience.

....

 

Alex

[alexjuice]

baseball,

 

I found this page on a paleo site...

 

http://paleohacks.com/questions/79680/experiences-with-personal-paleo-code-by-chris-kresser#axzz1mURImlip

 

... I think it addresses a lot of your questions and concerns. On this forum, we focus on a very specific population (people dealing with antidepressant discontinuation issues) and perhaps a response from a community not so narrowly self-selected will be more appropriate to your concerns.

[Nadia]

Hi

I'm new here and found this post when googling to see what Chris Kresser's history has been like with other patients. Like you I've been really impressed with his research but have also done the introductory session and been extremely disturbed by his aggressive business practices. Makes me really wonder-I've been to highly reputable and busy doctors and surgeons that don't charge up front and in this 'unlimited' style. Good professionals shouldn't behave like that.

Well done for asking for a refund. I've also had the second charge posted to my account and had extremely rude and pushy emails from his admin staff. Am very tempted to also cancel my treatment with him.

As with you though, I'll be really disappointed. Actually have quite a bit of faith in the guy based on his posts and podcasts but handing over credit card details and then being billed large amounts for very little seems like a pretty clear warning bell.

I'll let you know if I do go through with my case review though and explain how it went

 

I encourage you to post on his Facebook page as the administrator for this site did... maybe we can create enough public concern for him to reconsider his practices!

[Shanti]

I started using medical marijuana a few weeks ago for pain. One thing that it benefited that I didn't expect with the diverticulitis. My colon is so much more happy and it hasn't been happy for a couple years since the surgery on it.