ryan1982: my journey

[ryan1982]

Thanks so much, @Altostrata. Will do. I greatly appreciate your guidance.

 

@Heath- Thanks so much for stopping by. So just so I understand, when you started tapering, the head pressure, dizziness began to lessen? Were you 100% stable when you began your taper? That's my concern- I feel like I'm not stable at the moment with the stress intolerance, fatigue and sensory overload so I'm wary to upset the apple cart, if that makes sense.

 

I appreciate any guidance you can provide.

[Heath]

Yes you are correct - dizziness and brain fog feeling during allergy seasons has gotten less and less as I get lower in dose. 
 

I only taper when stable, unless there is some kind of emergency in which I haven’t had one. 

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @Heath. I'd love to get off Lexapro but your experience leads you to believe that 100% stability is needed to begin the taper, right?

[Heath]

You DO NOT have to reach %100 stability to taper. But I would say pretty close if you want to resume comfortable life and responsibilities. 

I had rather taper slow on lexapro with minimal side effects and withdrawals Than to live in hell without lexapro. 
 

Everyones  stability is different. 
My stability is to be able to go to work daily, pay bills and support family without anxiety and nuero emotions . But I can work with very minor anxiety.  I need cognitive think skills at work but I can manage with a little loss of that if I have too. Physical symptoms cold stiff hands or shivers, neck pain or Stomach issues I can keep going. 
 

If I am having anxiety or nuero emotions of any kind whatsoever I will not taper. If I am having cold hands or little stomach issues I will taper. 
 

If my life stresses were less than what they are I could taper faster maybe. 
 

Do you see where I’m going with this? 
 

Your stability is different from mine. 
 

Now with that said. If I am good and stable and there is heavy stress I will not taper. 
 

everyone and their life is different. 

 

check this out if you haven’t already
 

 

[ryan1982]

@Heath- I'm so sorry for not seeing this before but this is incredibly helpful. You should be super proud of yourself for tapering as far as you have and I love the guidelines you've set forth for when you can/cannot taper. Very, very helpful.  

 

My gut tells me I'm not stable enough to start and I need to wait to stabilize. I'll keep updating my thread but again, I really appreciate it!

[ryan1982]

I had a setback 10 months ago from testing the waters with a nerve pill. I've had symptoms come and go but the main culprits of sever head pressure, stomach pain and stress intolerance have remained. I haven't stabilized to the level that I would have expected and it's a very different feeling wave- much longer and more intense than before.

 

I was very stable on 3.8 MG of Lexapro before- could this be considered poop-out? Would it be helpful for me to try and taper out of it, even if I don't feel stable?

 

Thank y'all!

[Altostrata]

No, that is not "poop-out". Poop-out means recurrence of "depression" that was previously suppressed by the drug, not strange symptoms in other body systems.

[ryan1982]

Thanks, Alto. Does the same hold true if my anxiety, the original reason I was put on the medication, has come back? During this wave it was prevalent for a couple months at the beginning and now has been back in a big way the past six weeks. 

[ryan1982]

On 2/5/2021 at 9:23 PM, brassmonkey said:

Regaining stability after an adverse reaction or other destabilizing event is a highly individual process. It is very hard to put a time on it. Many people will stabilize after a few months, most will stabilize between three months to a year, but there will be a very few cases that can take longer. 

Hey @brassmonkey- I hope life is treating you well, sir. You helped me last year after an adverse reaction that lasted 2.5 months and now I’m in my 11th month of another after (stupidly) trying one pill of low dose naltrexone last April. 
 

I’m doing my best to regain stability but I feel like garbage still- head pressure, stress intolerance and fatigue being the primary offenders. 
 

I’m still taking my Lexapro and have eaten clean and avoided alcohol. I can’t really avoid stress with kids and my job but that’s about all I have. 
 

Is my best bet to just keep truckin’ while still on Lexapro and pray it gets better? Is there a point where it makes sense to consider tapering since my reaction has taken so long to straighten out and possibly less med will do me better?

 

I promise this isn’t health anxiety, I legitimately feel physically awful since my reaction and I’m looking for some advice on the best path forward. 

 

Thank you, sir!

[brassmonkey]

Hi Ryan-- I'm sorry to hear that you are having this ongoing problem, especially when you appear to be doing everything right. Recovery from an adverse reaction can be quite unpredictable and it is not unheard of for it to take eighteen months for stabilization to happen. Trying to wait it out would be your best course of action.

 

The three symptoms you mention are some of the most persistent ones there are. If they are at a consistent level, no big swings either for better or worse and all your other symptoms are stable, then it might be a possibility that a small taper could be started. It depends on the definition of stability you are using. Lack of symptoms can be a too restrictive definition, whereas no big swings either direction works pretty well. I would expect stability after the adverse reaction to feel different that stability before it. Tapering the Lexapro may not make those symptoms go away, but at least you would be moving forward, and I doubt that it will make them worse.

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @brassmonkey. You’re always willing to help me and I’m very appreciative of that. 
 

I don’t mind holding and I think that’s likely the right choice as my symptoms seem to be swinging around pretty wildly, especially lately. I thought I was done with anxiety and it seems to be trying to make a comeback. Just crazy to still be so bad 11 months out. 
 

If I’m reading correctly (that’s tough these days), I shouldn’t expect my withdrawal normal as before to be the same once I stabilize? I was great before the adverse reaction and I’m willing to wait as long as it takes to regain that stability so I can start my march to zero. 
 

Thanks as always, Brass!
 

 

[ChessieCat]

Just wondering if there might be something else at play here.

 

Q:  Do you eat any foods which contain MSG or other flavour enhancers?  Many savoury foods have them added, eg snacks, soups, frozen meals, chicken salt, Chinese food.

 

Q:  Do you drink anything with aspartame / phenylalanine, eg diet drinks?

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @ChessieCat. I eat pretty well during the week- low carbs, very little sugar, veggies, etc. I have a cheat meal or two during the weekend. I also typically drink two diet drinks per week. 

[john856]

1 hour ago, ryan1982 said:

Thanks, @ChessieCat. I eat pretty well during the week- low carbs, very little sugar, veggies, etc. I have a cheat meal or two during the weekend. I also typically drink two diet drinks per week. 

 

Do the diet drinks have any amount of caffeine in them? If so, does caffeine affect you negatively?

[ryan1982]

9 hours ago, john856 said:

 

Do the diet drinks have any amount of caffeine in them? If so, does caffeine affect you negatively?

Thanks for asking, @john856. It’s always caffeine free drinks like Diet Sprite or Ginger Ale. I can’t handle any caffeine. 

[ryan1982]

Hey @brassmonkey-

Curious of your thoughts on this situation. I take .024 mgpw of branded Lexapro 2x per day. I weighed some pills on my Gemini-20 last night by cutting them and putting them in capsules as I always do. Per your earlier advice, I put the weight on top, then the tray with meds. I calibrate every few times I use the scale. 
 

I went back reweighed a couple pills from last night today and they were anywhere from .019 to .022 mgpw- a good bit off from the .024 I generally take. 
 

Would it be a good idea for me to look into the generic Lexapro liquid or is this negligible amount I shouldn’t worry about? My concern is making a switch to liquid while in a wave would be rough but perhaps the scale is contributing to my destabilization?

 

Appreciate you as always, Brass!

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, ryan1982 said:

Would it be a good idea for me to look into the generic Lexapro liquid

 

Just highlighting that if you did change from crushed Lexapro to escitalopram liquid that would be 2 changes at the same time.

[ryan1982]

Just now, ChessieCat said:

 

Just highlighting that if you did change from crushed Lexapro to escitalopram liquid that would be 2 changes at the same time.

Good point, Chessie. Thank you.
 

Doing some more research and perhaps making my own solution using the branded Lexapro would be better? I’m just curious if the variance on my scale is causing issues. I think @brassmonkeydid his whole taper by dry-cutting so interested in his feedback as well. 

[ChessieCat]

I asked him about that recently when I discovered that you can make a liquid with Paxil tablets.  He said that he started his taper by weighing and he felt comfortable continuing to do it that way.

 

3 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

making my own solution using the branded Lexapro

 

You need to use a saline solution but below is the "recipe":

  

On 5/27/2011 at 12:16 PM, Altostrata said:

Do-it-yourself liquid
People report that they can make their own liquid from Lexapro tablets and water.

It is sparingly soluble in water, see http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01175 -- stability (shelf-life of dilution) is unknown.

 

 Escitalopram oxalate occurs as a fine, white to slightly-yellow powder and is freely soluble in methanol and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO), soluble in isotonic saline solution, sparingly soluble in water and ethanol, slightly soluble in ethyl acetate, and insoluble in heptane. According to RxList,com.

 

Your best bet would be to use a homemade isotonic(normal saline) saline solution (9% salt in water) which is made by dissolving 9 grams(1.8 tsp) of table salt in 1000mL of water.  Preparing a Saline Solution  The NS(normal saline) should be good for up to a month to draw from.

Draw out or extract the amount of NS(normal saline) for your desired dilution, add to a separate, mixing vessel, preferably amber colored, and with a lid, then add in your escitalopram tablet or powdered tablet until it's dissolved.  Keep protected from light in the refrigerator, and best to remix a batch of your Lexapro(dissolved) at least every week.

 

[Greatful]

@ryan1982

My hubby was doing my Lex, crushing and weighing on the scale.  He had variations with the weights to....The weight of the pills are to light to get a accurate measurement because it is not in the scales most accurate range........He put a quarter on the tray to increase the the tare weight then put the tray, paper, this gets you closer to middle of the scale range...Then he would tare it out, to bring it back to 0 then weight the crushed powder.......It gets you a better consistency.

I did go to liquid and it is so much easier......I also take 1.9mg  2x day =3.80mg

I take generic Lex.......I had to do 3 changes at one time.....1- tablet to liquid  2- different manufacture from tablet to liquid..3- split dose because I am a ultra fast metabolizer with the lex.

It was bumpy but I made it............How sensitive are you to changes?  Brand Lex to generic might be hard? 

Just curious, I would have loved to get brand Lex, I am so sensitive to changes and it is hard to get the same manufacture all the time with generic.......Did you have to get a special request from you Doctor to get brand Lex...I didn't think insurance companies like to pay for the brand if there is a generic available........Do they not make brand Lex in liquid? 

 

These are some strong drugs we are on🤢 Some how we be free of them😊

[Heath]

@ryan1982  I use prescription liquid and it does make it much simpler. I am a little more confident in tapering with liquid. That’s just me. 
Like you and CC said maybe not a good time to change to liquid . But maybe when you are stable or get through this first you can do a month long gradual change over to liquid in future. 

[ryan1982]

1 hour ago, Greatful said:

@ryan1982

My hubby was doing my Lex, crushing and weighing on the scale.  He had variations with the weights to....The weight of the pills are to light to get a accurate measurement because it is not in the scales most accurate range........He put a quarter on the tray to increase the the tare weight then put the tray, paper, this gets you closer to middle of the scale range...Then he would tare it out, to bring it back to 0 then weight the crushed powder.......It gets you a better consistency.

I did go to liquid and it is so much easier......I also take 1.9mg  2x day =3.80mg

I take generic Lex.......I had to do 3 changes at one time.....1- tablet to liquid  2- different manufacture from tablet to liquid..3- split dose because I am a ultra fast metabolizer with the lex.

It was bumpy but I made it............How sensitive are you to changes?  Brand Lex to generic might be hard? 

Just curious, I would have loved to get brand Lex, I am so sensitive to changes and it is hard to get the same manufacture all the time with generic.......Did you have to get a special request from you Doctor to get brand Lex...I didn't think insurance companies like to pay for the brand if there is a generic available........Do they not make brand Lex in liquid? 

 

These are some strong drugs we are on🤢 Some how we be free of them😊

Thanks for stopping by, @Greatful. Wild that we're on the same dose of Lexapro- I'm so excited to get this drug out of my system one day. I actually had a bad reaction to the generic so if I do switch to liquid, I'll have to make up my own, which I think will be fine. My doctor had to write a note to my insurance company that I can't handle the generic and need the branded. They unfortunately no longer make the branded liquid, which definitely stinks.

 

I wish you lots of healing! Are you dealing with any side effects as you taper or are you pretty stable?

[ryan1982]

1 hour ago, Heath said:

@ryan1982  I use prescription liquid and it does make it much simpler. I am a little more confident in tapering with liquid. That’s just me. 
Like you and CC said maybe not a good time to change to liquid . But maybe when you are stable or get through this first you can do a month long gradual change over to liquid in future. 

Thanks, @Heath! It stinks that they don't make the branded liquid but once I stabilize, I think I'm going to try and make up my own so I can get super precise with my taper. Hope you're doing well!

[brassmonkey]

21 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

I went back reweighed a couple pills from last night today and they were anywhere from .019 to .022 mgpw- a good bit off from the .024 I generally take. 

Ryan-- you need to watch your decimal points and units of measure. Your scales can't possibly measure .019mgpw. I suspect your readout showed 0.019 which is in grams and would be referred to a 19mg.

 

If you were to reweigh those same capsules today, you would probably get different readings from the ones you got yesterday. It's just the nature of the scales and the environment in which you make the measurements. Any air movement, table shake, or the like can throw things off by that amount. I don't think it is a problem.

 

The site does recommend that, if possible, make the switch to some form of liquid for doing your Endgame Taper. It is more accurate. easier to control and the like. However, some people have trouble making the switch to liquid, can't get it, or it is too expensive. Unless you are having a lot of trouble with symptoms when you reduce then I would say don't rock the boat. It's not worth the time, extra expense and risk of triggering a bad reaction. Recovery from a crossover gone bad can take many months and can be quite unpleasant.

[ryan1982]

18 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Ryan-- you need to watch your decimal points and units of measure. Your scales can't possibly measure .019mgpw. I suspect your readout showed 0.019 which is in grams and would be referred to a 19mg.

 

If you were to reweigh those same capsules today, you would probably get different readings from the ones you got yesterday. It's just the nature of the scales and the environment in which you make the measurements. Any air movement, table shake, or the like can throw things off by that amount. I don't think it is a problem.

 

The site does recommend that, if possible, make the switch to some form of liquid for doing your Endgame Taper. It is more accurate. easier to control and the like. However, some people have trouble making the switch to liquid, can't get it, or it is too expensive. Unless you are having a lot of trouble with symptoms when you reduce then I would say don't rock the boat. It's not worth the time, extra expense and risk of triggering a bad reaction. Recovery from a crossover gone bad can take many months and can be quite unpleasant.

Yes, you're absolutely right about the units of measurement. My brain is a bit addled at the moment and the head pressure makes it tough to think.  Plus, I was just a lowly Marketing major in college, ha.

 

So, just to reiterate, you don't think taking a 19mg dose when I'm supposed to be taking a 24mg dose is an issue? You know way more than I'll ever know and if you're good with the variance, then so am I. I'm just trying to figure out if my dosing is a cause for concern and a contributing factor to why I'm not stable.

 

Thanks as always, @brassmonkey!

[ChessieCat]

cross-over-changing-form-eg-tablet-to-liquid-of-drug-or-changing-brand-of-same-drug

 

[Altostrata]

Lexapro comes in a prescription liquid. At very low dosages, using a liquid to taper is far more convenient and probably more accurate than dry-cutting or weighing. 

 

At your dosage level, a bottle of Lexapro liquid, which you would dilute, will last you until the bottle's expiration date, much more than a month.

[ChessieCat]

  

On 3/15/2022 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

At your dosage level, a bottle of Lexapro liquid, which you would dilute, will last you until the bottle's expiration date, much more than a month.

 

From https://www.nps.org.au/medicine-finder/lexapro-oral-solution

 

Quote

 

Discard LEXAPRO oral solution 20 mg/mL 2 months after first opening.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Check the expiration date with your pharmacist or the manufacturer.

[Ariel]

@ryan1982

How are you feeling these days? 

Thinking of you,

A.

[ryan1982]

Been having some anxiety lately which results in verbal impulses, especially at work. Uncomfortable symptom. Head pressure, light sensitivity and movement issues still present. Had my first brain zap last night. That sucked. 
 

13 months out, still lots of healing to do. Cutting out diary, red meat, sugar and bad carbs to cut down on inflammation. 
 

This is a pure nightmare. Hard to believe that one pill has caused this much chaos. 

[Ariel]

@ryan1982

I hear you. Sorry it's rough going. 

 

Unbelievable the potency of these drugs and how commonplace they've become... Mind-boggling isn't it?

 

5 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

Cutting out diary, red meat, sugar and bad carbs

 

Cutting out sugar, dairy, grains, etc. has helped me a lot. I'll be curious to see how you feel moving forward. I'll be on the lookout for your updates (no presh, of course). 

 

5 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

verbal impulses

 

I noticed you started a help topic on this subject. Will check in there. 

 

You've got a good attitude and seem to be constructive and pro-active in your approach. I see you working hard. You're doing a great job. 

It gets better. We're in this together. We'll get there eventually! 

 

[Heath]

@ryan1982Are you still holding at 3.8 mg lexapro?

totally agree with Ariel we are so sensitive to everything in wd !

 

carbs on inflammation is like throwing gasoline on a fire. So hard to get away from simple carbs in USA. 
 

Me too with light sensitivity it comes and goes. I wear ear plugs more at work nowadays - sound sensitive and I ve noticed sensitive to smell a couple of times with things that didn’t bother me before it’s stronger more pronounced. 
 

Hang on ! One step at a time!

 

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @Arieland @Heath. Y’all are great for taking the time to drop in and say hello. I’ll post about the intrusive thoughts on the Symptoms forum but yes, Ariel, absolutely stunning description of how I feel. 
 

Still trucking along on 3.8 MG of Lexapro. Going to try and cut out all of the bad stuff and see how it goes. This wave has been 13 months and changed me forever. The one thing I’ve yet to address is a fully clean diet so I hope this change will be exactly what I need to heal up!

[ryan1982]

I will say that my p-doc and I met today and she wants me to go up on Lexapro, no down. Standard story. 

[ryan1982]

My anxiety has come back very badly lately. Trying to use my coping skills but it’s pretty rough. The only change I had was cutting out sugar (other than fruit), bad carbs and red meat to try and reduce inflammation. 
 

Is it worth me considering going up on Lexapro? I’ve been in a bad wave for 13 months after an adverse reaction to low dose naltrexone. I had anxiety for 6 months and thought I kicked it but it came roaring back in the past few weeks. 

I was stable on my Lexapro before the adverse reaction. No alcohol or extraneous substances since last April. 
 

Appreciate any thoughts.