ryan1982: my journey

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, ryan1982 said:

The only change I had was cutting out sugar

 

Q:  How long ago did you start cutting out sugar?

 

If it hasn't been long then I would not make any other changes at this time.  You body will still be adjusting to changing how it uses what you eat.  In the early 1980s I went on the Pritikin diet, which was no sugar, and I experienced sugar withdrawal symptoms very similar to nicotine withdrawal.

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @ChessieCat. Should I stay the course and continue to cut out sugar in your opinion?

 

Secondly, is it wild to consider going up or is that inviting more chaos?

 

Should I expect to return to how I felt pre adverse reaction (no head pressure, no anxiety, no sensory overload) or will I need to make my peace that this is the new normal during my taper?

[ChessieCat]

12 minutes ago, ryan1982 said:

Should I stay the course and continue to cut out sugar in your opinion?

 

You did not answer my question about how long it has been.

 

It depends on the reason for you cutting out the sugar.  Personally, with what I have learned recently about sugar and carbs and managing to reverse/remit my diabetes (I have posted about this in my topic and also the diabetes topic) I think it is beneficial to do this.

 

15 minutes ago, ryan1982 said:

Secondly, is it wild to consider going up or is that inviting more chaos?

 

I have already answered this question:

 

19 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I would not make any other changes at this time.  You body will still be adjusting to changing how it uses what you eat. 

 

[ryan1982]

Goodness, I didn’t mean to upset you. It’s been a long day and I apologize for missing your question. I haven’t had any refined sugar, bad carbs or red meat in 9 days. I’m trying to cut down on the inflammation in my body. 
 

I only asked about increasing my dosage as something I would potentially do after the diet has settled. 

[ChessieCat]

Nine days into a new diet is very early on in the piece.  Don't worry about whether you might need to increase your drug dose down the track.  One thing at a time; you can cross that bridge IF you come to it.

[Ariel]

Hi @ryan1982

Just reposting from last PM into your thread. Upon reflection I think it's best to collect things here in your intro topic so that the mods can follow along, especially since you seem to be considering making a change. It will be easier for the mods to support you in your deliberations if they have access to your process. 

 

Here's what I wrote in my message to you: 

 

Hi Ryan,

 

   15 hours ago,  ryan1982 said: 

probably a bad idea to increase my Lexapro dosage after all this time? I have to think that Lexapro isn't the problem since I was stable when I had my adverse reaction.

 

I'm not a mod and don't weigh in on any decision-making process. 

 

I had a quick glance through the last few months of your thread and it looks to me like you've had some good responses from mods. Have you gone back to re-read at all? Sometimes it can be hard to remember or hold information due to cog fog, etc. 

 

It seems to me like brassmonkey gave you some solid advice back in March: 

 

Hi Ryan-- I'm sorry to hear that you are having this ongoing problem, especially when you appear to be doing everything right. Recovery from an adverse reaction can be quite unpredictable and it is not unheard of for it to take eighteen months for stabilization to happen. Trying to wait it out would be your best course of action.

 

The three symptoms you mention are some of the most persistent ones there are. If they are at a consistent level, no big swings either for better or worse and all your other symptoms are stable, then it might be a possibility that a small taper could be started. It depends on the definition of stability you are using. Lack of symptoms can be a too restrictive definition, whereas no big swings either direction works pretty well. I would expect stability after the adverse reaction to feel different that stability before it. Tapering the Lexapro may not make those symptoms go away, but at least you would be moving forward, and I doubt that it will make them worse.

 

Do you know this brilliant essay by brassmonkey? It is one of my all-time favorite help topics here on SA. I find myself revisiting it regularly. I would encourage you to read and re-read it as often as necessary. In regards to brassmonkey's advice to you in your thread, which I've quoted above, you might want to pay particular attention to chapters 5. Stability and 11. WDnormal. 

 

 

Also, rule of thumb: anytime one feels tension in the body around making a decision, accompanied by a sense of urgency, like "I gotta figure this out NOW, I need answers NOW," -- that's anxiety. In such situations anxiety is best managed by non-drug coping techniques. I am guessing you are already familiar with the relevant help topics. What are your favorite non-drug coping strategies for anxiety?

 

Peace,

A.

 

 

 

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @Ariel. I appreciate it. Working on meditation and mindfulness but it’s obviously tough. 
 

My brain feels damaged. It goes beyond any wave I’ve ever had so acceptance is tough. I have trouble with so many things. I was stable on Lexapro before my adverse reaction and I pray that I get back to that baseline. 
 

I know adverse reactions can take a long time to resolve. I just hope that those of us that had a reaction while still taking the original drug can also heal. 
 

I wrote this to a family member who thought I was experiencing chronic pain:

 

”I wish it were as easy as this being face pressure or chronic pain. Sure, headaches and sinus pressure suck but I'd take it. I have 24/7 head pressure that affects my cognition. It causes me not to be able to grasp what I'm saying in meetings which then results in crippling anxiety. Additionally, I have intrusive thoughts constantly- thinks like "should I jump off this bridge?" or "what if I scream out loud in this meeting?". It's torture but sadly very common for people that have been harmed by pharmaceuticals. I'm exhausted all the time because I sleep awful- I have brain zaps and out of body feelings while sleeping- and the sensory overload from noises, touch, light and motion are enough to make me jump out of my skin. I can't look at people picking up cups without it bothering me for some reason. Motion of feet and hands bother me- no clue why. I see things out of the corner of my eye that aren't there. My son woke me up last night after a bad dream and it took me three hours to calm down and fall back asleep. It's like your body is in constant fight or flight mode and yes, this has made me more than once just simply not want to be here anymore. I'm irritable because my body is constantly telling my brain there's a threat. I cannot explain how awful these symptoms are and yet somehow, many have it much worse. So I want to be 100% clear this has nothing to do with chronic pain or the nerve issue in my nose. It's caused by years and years of medication use and introducing something extraneous that threw everything off. I've absolutely thought about suicide because how much can one person handle? I won't do anything though- that's a promise I made to my wife that I intend to keep. To be harmed by the medical community and then left for dead with no way forward is a special kind of hell.”

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by ChessieCat
reformatted text which was small and hard to read

[ryan1982]

Still cycling through symptoms- feels like a big bummer when a symptom you thought you had beat comes back. For me, that’s been this form of neuro-anxiety that has plagued me throughout this 14 month wave. I’m not particularly worried about anything but I have the physical and mental feelings of anxiety. I’m fine one day and then the next is a mess.  
 

It had been gone for a few months until it came roaring back in the past month or so. 

[ryan1982]

Revisiting a topic that seems to be somewhat controversial in the withdrawal community…dry cutting vs pulverizing. I don’t really mind making pills either way but I didn’t do that great when pulverizing my pills. My symptoms seemed to ramp a good bit. However, I haven’t stabilized on my dry cut of pills and I’m worried about getting a steady dose of active ingredient. 
 

Does anyone have strong feelings on this topic and care to share? Would I have a better chance of stability on pulverized pills due to the active ingredient being spread out?

 

I don’t seem to get a super strong reaction after I take my 2 doses of Lexapro per day- I more just feel pretty bad all the time. 
 

Appreciate y’all!

[ChessieCat]

I don't know if this is the problem but it might be worth thinking about and trying.  Taking your dose twice a day doesn't usually cause issues, not like taking it too far apart.

 

Q:  Have we discussed half life before for Lexapro?

 

Q:  Have you noticed any pattern related to prior to taking your dose (a worsening) and gradually improving during the hours after taking your dose?

 

It could be that you are a fast metaboliser and/or if the drug is getting into your system faster due to being chopped up/crushed (dose dumping), then you might be experiencing interdose withdrawal.  The tablet drug of Lexapro has a half life of about 27-32 hours, so if you are feeling worse in the lead up to taking your next dose then taking a part of it a little bit later might help with this.

 

If you think that this might be happening you could try taking half of your dose (it wouldn't have to be precise so measure the dose and then just halve that as beszt you can; you would still be taking the full dose in the 24 hour period) a few hours later than the first dose.  You would move it by 1 hour each day.  Because ADs are usually activating it might be better to not move it too far from the first dose because you don't want to affect your sleep.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by ChessieCat

[ryan1982]

Thanks so much, @ChessieCat. I really appreciate it. 
 

Answer #1- We’ve discussed the half life of Lexapro quite a bit in the past. I believe my potentially being a fast metabolized was why we originally moved to have two different Lexapro doses instead of just one per day. 
 

Answer #2- I’ve thought about this quite a bit and will continue to keep an eye on it. I don’t think I have increased symptoms leading up to taking my dose (or after). It’s more just a steady stream of symptoms. I’ll continue to keep track of it and be mindful in order to make the decision if I need to space it out. 
 

I went back and read my topic and I definitely have improved in the past 14 months. I’m just so bummed out that I’m still struggling so much. 

[ryan1982]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:04 PM, brassmonkey said:

I would expect stability after the adverse reaction to feel different that stability before it. Tapering the Lexapro may not make those symptoms go away, but at least you would be moving forward, and I doubt that it will make them worse.

 
Hey @brassmonkey-

Hope you’re doing well. A while back you had mentioned that stability will feel different after an adverse reaction. Does that mean that I shouldn’t expect to get back to my pre-ADR withdrawal normal?

 

Also, and unrelated, any concerns with cutting pills and not pulverizing? 
 

Thanks so much, sir. Always appreciate your wisdom. 

[Greatful]

@ryan1982 So sorry you are having a tough time. 

I also split my dose of Lexapro to 2 times a day. Do to ultrafast metabolizer.  I went to liquid, have you tried liquid.  So much easier to get a accurate dosing?  

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @Greatful. How was your transition from pills to liquid? I’m a little scared of rocking the boat, if I’m honest. 

[brassmonkey]

I see no reason not to, it may take some time though. ADRs can really screw with the body so your WDnormal will probably feel a bit different, but WDnromal is a sliding scale that should keep improving over time.

[ryan1982]

1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

I see no reason not to, it may take some time though. ADRs can really screw with the body so your WDnormal will probably feel a bit different, but WDnromal is a sliding scale that should keep improving over time.

Thanks so much, Brass. It’s been a bear, no doubt about that. I’ve had a bunch of symptoms drop off, which has been so nice. I’ve got a few left to go and I’ll keep cutting my pills and holding until I stabilize. At this point, I think it could realistically take a full 2 years (I’m at 14 months currently). 

[ryan1982]

The anxiety you feel after an adverse reaction/during withdrawals is just so dang difficult to control. It's unlike anything I've ever felt. Coping mechanisms can help but it's still hit or miss. At least the adrenal fatigue after the anxiety is gone.

[Greatful]

@ryan1982  I can relate to the fear.  I sure have for just about anything dealing with this...Can I eat this or that, what should I avoid to lesson symptoms or at least not make them worse... Some of the times nothing is making it worse but just a bigger wave... This whole thing is a guessing game.. What works for one my not work for another...

 

So you ask how was my transition?  Did it make things worse..I suppose to some degree, but I was a mess anyway...I took the plunge and ground my way through it...It is so hard to get a total accurate weight when you have such a low dose, the scales have a hard time staying in middle of their natural weight...My hubby  started to  put quarters on the scale then the tray then tare it before he weight it. Other wise it bounced around more- put it on, get a  weight, take it off, reweight different weight.  the quarter help to be more constant  accurate weight.  I don't understand it but he does lol...he does that still when he weights my cut Xanax, Lamictal, and Trazadone.  All are getting to low doses.

I just couldn't stabilize on the Lex so we thought more precise dosing with the liquid would help.  It  sure does with tapering...I must say I have seen the most improvement as I am tapering the Lexapro.  Nasty drug. 

 

Have you tried Magnesium for anxiety?  I take 300-400mg magnesium  throughout the day I also found Lavender essential oil helps.  I dab a dot on my wrist or for arm 3-4  times a day.

Also Vagus nerve work

Here are some links that I found helpful

Vagus Nerve reset https://youtu.be/-S8KT7w4uaA

Vagus Nerve Breathing for Relaxation  https://youtu.be/dkJDrfL90rU

[brassmonkey]

As a baseline for time calculations the recommended 10%/4-week taper has a half-life of 6 months. The standard Brassmonkey Slide 2.5% x 4 + 2 weeks has a half-life of 9 months.

[ryan1982]

22 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

As a baseline for time calculations the recommended 10%/4-week taper has a half-life of 6 months. The standard Brassmonkey Slide 2.5% x 4 + 2 weeks has a half-life of 9 months.

Yessir, absolutely. Sorry, I realized I wasn't being specific. I think my stabilization from the ADR may take a couple years when it's all said and done.

[ryan1982]

Thanks, @Greatful. I may get to a point when I’m feeling more stable to switch to liquid. I spent a whole truckload of money on a lab analytical balance scale and I’ll say that I weigh and reweigh doses and get the same results over and over, so that’s nice. 
 

I’m pulling for you and thanks for stopping in!

[ryan1982]

I swear if I could just rid myself of the feeling in my head, everything would get easier. It’s a disservice to just say it’s head pressure; it’s more than that. My head hurts constantly, absolutely, but it affects my cognition and causes my intrusive thoughts and anxiety to ramp up. Also, it somehow affects my ability to process lights, sounds and movement. All my symptoms are related and they all seem to be coming from my head. 

[ChessieCat]

What I have see from other members, they say:  if only I didn't have this symptom, or I wish I could have "y" symptom instead of "x".

 

But when "x" symptom goes and they get "y" symptom they then start saying they which they had "z" symptom or that "x" symptom was easier to handle than "y" symptom.

 

I think the "worst" symptom is the current symptom but it is the one that we are having trouble handling now.

 

The grass is always seems greener on the other side.

[Ariel]

@ryan1982

Thinking of you... How are you going?

 

[NeDaytoDayMJ]

How have you been lately?