Musk: is this withdrawal?

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, musk said:

At the end of December I took a sertraline pill, the normal recommended dose

 

Please add this information to your drug signature, date and dose.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[musk]

Done. 

 

Sorry to insist Chessi or other mods: 

 

Need to know if people normally heals from this type of reactions.

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, musk said:

At the end of December I took a sertraline pill, the normal recommended dose. I have not related the facts until now, but I've noticed that things have gotten much worse since then. Before that, I was not feeling well, but my situation worsened when I took that pill, just now 3 months ago. My question is: how do adverse effects tend to evolve? they are usually solved too, like the withdrawal syndrome?

 

Yes, the effect of the pill was to further shake up your nervous system, just as withdrawal did. It's all the same nervous system.

[Altostrata]

What we see is very slow, gradual healing, which can be very frustrating.

[musk]

Hello,

 

I'm back here because I'm in a very difficult, desperate situation.

 

As I said I have a family that depends on me, and I already care about my person because I would admit dying today. But my children depend on me and that I am well or "normal".

 

I changed my signature because I remembered some things in more detail.

 

I need an advice. I am willing to risk a reinstatement. But should I reinstall sertraline or hypericum ???

 

Diazepam I left it well. I did not do a slow reduction, and I did not notice a worsening, although I feared it. And I will not be back.

 

I do not know what to do, I'm suffering intensely. It is true that I write this now in the middle of a bad wave.

 

Lately I have seen some bright windows that last 1 day or half a day. In those windows everything seems different, I no longer consider my problem a big problem, the thought changes radically, emotions too, although I find myself a bit impulsive. I am not very afraid and I feel hope and positivity. Something curious has also happened, and unlike a few months ago, the windows have covered one night in between, and that night I slept well and calmly. In the windows I have low back pain, but it does not scare or bother me much, and I think it will be resolved.

I have also clearly felt when the window was going to close imminently. This happens every week or 2 weeks. Like a small oasis in the crossing through the desert.

 

On bad days, I see very dark things, I feel the same back pain but I'm very afraid of it. I also feel muscular tension in my jaw, lips and nose, and a slight pain in my teeth. For a couple of weeks. As I read on the internet about tardive dyskinesia, I am even more worried and scared than before, because my symptoms are adding up !!!

 

I also feel a lot of anger and envy against people, because I think about the normal lives they have and I feel like killing them! I'm really embarrassed to recognize this last, but I guess I can tell you here ...

 

I have an EMDR therapy therapist and he helps me, every time I have a session my ideas change, normally.

 

Please help. I want to make a good decision. I must do something.

 

........

 

I edit, to add that I have had medical check-ups and I'm fine. I've had two check-ups with 2 neurologists, and they have not highlighted or found anything.

[Rosetta]

Thinking of you, Musk.  I have no advice, but I wish you well.  I'm very glad that all your medical tests show that you have no specific illnesses.  Keep bumping your post up to keep it on the first page of all posts until you get an answer.  

Hugs,

Rosetta

[powerback]

10 hours ago, musk said:

I also feel a lot of anger and envy against people, because I think about the normal lives they have and I feel like killing them! I'm really embarrassed to recognize this last, but I guess I can tell you here ...

these are just thoughts musk ,your a kind decent family man ,tell yourself this if being overwhelmed when having these thoughts .credit is due to you for telling how it is ,you'll help a lot of people in time to understand these aspects of this painful journey .our poor brains wiring is all mixed up and tangled trying to  correct itself .

Take care musk and be safe .

[musk]

Thank you Rosetta and Powerback for your words of support.

 

Please please help.

 

I need opinion on reinstatement: I know its risky, but I must to try something, I can not last like this. Must I reinstate sertraline, or hypericum?

 

There is something I have not described, which is that sometimes I suffer intense panic attacks as a kind of psychosis, I do not have hallucinations or voices, but I can not get out of that state, I can not control it, I just cry intensely and talk & talk nonstop about the brain damage that I have, during this episodes my voice is changed, its very scary.

 

Powerback, I am not a family man.... I am a mum.

[musk]

There is one more thing: physically I can do some things, I could go for a walk, but psychically I can not! Every day I decide to do it, every day I fail! it's as if I do not want, deep down.

[powerback]

56 minutes ago, musk said:

Thank you Rosetta and Powerback for your words of support.

 

Please please help.

 

I need opinion on reinstatement: I know its risky, but I must to try something, I can not last like this. Must I reinstate sertraline, or hypericum?

 

There is something I have not described, which is that sometimes I suffer intense panic attacks as a kind of psychosis, I do not have hallucinations or voices, but I can not get out of that state, I can not control it, I just cry intensely and talk & talk nonstop about the brain damage that I have, during this episodes my voice is changed, its very scary.

 

Powerback, I am not a family man.... I am a mum.

Sincere apologies musk for getting mixed up on your gender .

[musk]

This is very sad:

I believe that, in my deepest interior, I do not wish to be cured. Because I do not do anything for myself, I treat myself badly. I can walk, be with people, I have free time, I have people around me who love me ... and I do not do anything to take care of myself. I can not ... I do not want ... I'm in a very bad attitude.

The reality is that I feel physically very bad, and emotionally too. I'm really scared. I do not do anything to take care of myself, because I do not have the certainty that it will work for anything, so I do not do anything that involves an effort on my part. I know I'm doing it wrong! I know that the key is that one invest in oneself, even without the certainty that it serves for something. I know. People heal themselves in this way: they get rid of the need to be well and trust in the course of life ... and they heal. I'm not doing it right. I only cry and mourn the normal life I have lost.

[musk]

As I mentioned, I am worried about my new symptom of muscle tension around my mouth. And I just consulted again one of the neurologists who checked me 10 days ago. I have described exactly what I feel, and he has told me that what I describe is very different from what is dystonia or TD.

 

Now, I do not know what to think. But I'm still scared, very scared.

The brief windows I had a few days ago lasted 1/2 day or a whole day. Now it seems to me that it was not real, that I imagined it, and that at that time I really was not so good, it was not perfect, my behavior was not normal, I was more impulsive than I am, I did not have my normal cognitive ability, nor my good memory, etc.

Please, those of you who have experience, I will be grateful if you can tell me what these rare changes that happen to me mean. How does a window feel? Are there more windows once you've had a couple of windows? Longer, more normal? More often? I need to know.

[Rosetta]

I have had muscle tension everywhere practically.  Muscle tremors all over, too.  My jaw and cheeks are the most troubling right now.  It's only if I hold my neck in a certain position or if I read.  I understand how scary these symptoms are.  They are so unusual, and we have never had them before for "no reason."  With neuro-emotions and anxiety added to these symptoms, it is easy to get very frightened.  You are ok, Musk.  These symptoms are very bizarre, and so they are scary, but they are not going to hurt you.  

 

Once you start having windows you will have more windows.  When and how close they will be together no one knows.  Windows feel different for everyone and they can feel different every time.  

 

One is not completely normal in a window, but she feels much better.  It's something one knows when she feels it.  One feels different, better, and often may not realize she had a window until it is closing or closed.  Sometimes I have symptoms in a window that I rarely have in a wave and they are mild.  For example, I might have no anxiety, feel clear headed and feel as if the cog fog is gone, but I might have a new physical symptom that isn't severe enough to cause me too much discomfort or worry.  I might feel much less anxious, but very sleepy.  I consider it a window because my most problematic symptom, anxiety, is gone, and yet most people would not appreciate feeling very, very drowsy in the middle of the afternoon - it might even be a scary symptom if the person had never felt that symptom before.  What is frustrating about the drowsiness is that if I fall asleep then I have a myoclonoc jerk and wake up soon after I fall asleep.  I can't get any rest from naps, but I do get rest at night.

 

My earliest windows did not involve the drowsy feeling.  They involved a feeling of the cognitive function being much better -- a lift of the "cog fog."  I was still rather anxious.  Now that the cog fog is not an everyday thing, I think of a window as being a day when I'm not anxious the entire day.  I'm not sure I'm in a window today, but I did a lot of demanding things.  Four months ago I could not have done all I did today.  I would not have even considered it, but I did have windows of a different sort four months ago.  They were days when I could think straight more or less.  I felt normal compared to what I had been feeling just previously.  As you heal more and more you will redefine "windows."  They will be times you feel much more "normal" than you did before, but only slightly more normal than during the last window.

 

 I hope that makes sense, and I hope you feel better soon.  I've been where you are.  I know it's terrifying, Musk.  I know you are so afraid you will never get better, but you will.  At some point you will be able to take better care of yourself and you will start feeling that it's not quite as hard to do good things for yourself.  For now, I suggest you try an Epsom salts bath.  Start that process with just one ritual every day -- one bath or one walk or one half hour of sitting in sunlight.

 

Peace, Rosetta

[musk]

Thank you, Rosetta.

 

Reinstatement could work? I need to do something, my family can not handle this situation anymore.

[musk]

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

As you heal more and more you will redefine "windows."  They will be times you feel much more "normal" than you did before, but only slightly more normal than during the last window.

Yes, yes, that's how I've noticed. I had small windows before, but the last two windows were better, I felt more normal. besides, it gave the impression that the nightmare was over.

[musk]

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

 I know you are so afraid you will never get better, but you will.

 

Yes. I am extremely terrified. I can not see that I'm going to improve, I can not see it! It gives me the impression that I have started a hard path of suffering and chronic illness, that will accompany me the rest of my life. I am so sorry for everything I have lost.

 

The attitude of my parents and my sister ... they are worried but they do not admit what happens to me because no doctor recognizes it. then they believe that it is a great depression and that it is in my hands to act to get out, and that if I do not overcome it, it is because I do not want to. that's what they think. my husband supports me instead. My family's attitude hurts so much. They do not help me even though my two parents are retired and in good enough health.

[musk]

I would appreciate the opinion of the experts on reinstatement. 

 

I do not care about my life anymore. I would do it for the welfare of my children... Even if it's to last a few years, until they no longer need me so much.

[Shep]

On 5/8/2018 at 6:26 AM, musk said:

Lately I have seen some bright windows that last 1 day or half a day.

 

 

1 hour ago, musk said:

I do not care about my life anymore. I would do it for the welfare of my children... Even if it's to last a few years, until they no longer need me so much.

 

Musk, you mention having "bright windows that last 1 day or half a day" and then a day or two later, you're feeling like you don't care about your life.

 

Are the "bright windows" new? Did you have them when you first came to this forum? If you are - overall - feeling better and seeing more windows, are you sure you want to reinstate the antidepressant after 5 months? 

 

Healing happens gradually with set backs. Over time, you will heal. 

 

You really need to work on your non-drug coping skills for the dark times and remind yourself of your windows. The windows will come again. 

 

[musk]

Thanks Shep, for your answer!

 

No, I think I did not have bright windows before. In the past months my condition was more stable ... extremely miserable, but there were no great contrasts. Simply I had some quieter moments.

 

In the last two weeks I've noticed more ups and downs ... it's cruel. I also suffer more physical symptoms now. No, I am not feeling better...

 

True?? Windows will come again? Its true that over time I will heal?? All the people who stay out of drugs heal? Is it a question of staying determined?

 

 

 

 

[musk]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

are you sure you want to reinstate the antidepressant after 5 months? 

I am willing to do anything, just to save my children.

[Rosetta]

The up and down part is so very scary.  It's different than you felt before, and it's new.  I describe it as ping ponging as in the game ping pong.  Combined with the neuro-emotion anxiety it creates a fear that is hard to ignore.  However, I think it means you are healing, Musk.  I feel that reinstating would interrupt that healing, but I don't want you to give up while you are struggling through the ping pong phase.   If you can be strong enough to stay drug free you will heal.  It's very difficult, I know.  (If you reinstate, you can still heal, of course.)

 

I think I have come through to a phase that is not quite as up and down.  Either that or I'm more used to the up and down such that it doesn't scare me as much.  Therefore, I feel better.  I no longer want to die even when I start to feel anxiety or have a cortisol spike.  I wish I could bring you to this phase without having to go through the anxiety that makes you want to die, Musk.  It is a better place.  It's not perfect.  I don't feel good all the time.  I was in tears a moment ago, but I no longer want to die.  That feeling of wanting to die slowly went away.  It's changing somehow.  It's changed to a feeling of frustration that I have to keep having severe anxiety to get to the other side rather than a feeling of "I must stop this feeling immediately even if that means death."  It is much, much less scary in this phase. I can interrupt the anxiety now.  Sometimes it takes longer to interrupt it, and I worry that I can't, but then it's down to a tolerable level again. I find it hard to describe, but I think it's that the neurotransmitters are different now.  My brain is finding a balance or a better mix of neurotransmitters, I suppose.  Yours will do that, too.

 

There will be more suffering, Musk, either way -- whether you reinstate or not.  I wish someone could tell you which way would get you to a state of mind that is comfortable faster!!  No one knows.  No one knows whether reinstatement will bring you relief more quickly or whether staying drug free will bring it faster.  What we do know is that you will get there.  I did not reinstate because it had been about 5-6 months after I had quit the drug.  I was afraid of a bad reaction making my recovery time longer rather than shorter.  Maybe I made the wrong decision or maybe not.  I went through a terrible terrible time after I found SA, but I did have the support of my husband.  (After that terrible time is when the ping ponging happened.  Maybe that means you are through the worst.  I hope so.). You have your husband's support, too.  He can help you get through, Musk.  (Your family doesn't understand, and that's sad, but it's so common.). I have no one but my husband -- no other family to help (or hurt), and I am still here almost 15 months drug free.  If you decide to go drug free, you can do it.  It doesn't seem that you can, but sometimes when I look back I can't believe how much strength I have had that I never would have thought was possible!

 

Peace, Rosetta

[Shep]

16 hours ago, Rosetta said:

The up and down part is so very scary.  It's different than you felt before, and it's new.  I describe it as ping ponging as in the game ping pong.  Combined with the neuro-emotion anxiety it creates a fear that is hard to ignore.  However, I think it means you are healing, Musk.  I feel that reinstating would interrupt that healing, but I don't want you to give up while you are struggling through the ping pong phase.   If you can be strong enough to stay drug free you will heal.  It's very difficult, I know.  (If you reinstate, you can still heal, of course.)

 

Musk, what Rosetta wrote is so spot on and important.

 

The reason I asked if you are sure you want to reinstate is that you are already getting windows that last a full day. This is great for being off both an antidepressant and a benzo. 

 

16 hours ago, Rosetta said:

There will be more suffering, Musk, either way -- whether you reinstate or not.  I wish someone could tell you which way would get you to a state of mind that is comfortable faster!!  No one knows.  No one knows whether reinstatement will bring you relief more quickly or whether staying drug free will bring it faster.

 

Very true. There are no guarantees. 

 

Musk, please see:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

It's NORMAL to feel bad after feeling good. It's hard, though, but it's important to keep a good perspective and not go down into spiraling, catastrophic thinking.

 

Please see:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

When your thoughts start to go dark, do this:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Keep doing the "change the channel" exercise over and over again - every time you have a dark thought - and you will re-train your brain. After awhile, it will become automatic. 

 

And when it does, it will free you from the pain and burden of carrying around those toxic thoughts.

 

When you get anger or frustrated, see this:

 

Neuro emotions

 

As my favorite YouTube guru Mooji says, "Your thoughts are just visitors and you are NOT a hotel. Don't let them in!"

 

It's important for you to distance yourself from your toxic thinking patterns. Your thoughts are just visitors, and they are toxic and unwanted ones at that. Best let them pass by without engaging in conversation. 

 

21 hours ago, musk said:

In the last two weeks I've noticed more ups and downs ... it's cruel. I also suffer more physical symptoms now. No, I am not feeling better...

 

 

What are you doing for your physical symptoms? Benzos (and some antidepressants) are muscle relaxers, so many of us have lots of muscle aches and pains when we taper and come off. Some ideas:

 

Legs Up The Wall - Foundations of Yoga

 

Brief and lovely gentle yoga (good for the challenged nervous system too)

 

Another great tip is to learn how to breathe. The 4-7-8 method is excellent for handling stress and anxious moments.

 

4-7-8 Breathing Exercise by GoZen video (3.5 minutes)

 

If you do wish to reinstate, let us know. Alto mentioned 2 mg in this post here, however, that was 3 months ago and your nervous system may be more destabilized now. So you may want to start with 1 or 1.5 mg. If you do decide to reinstate, keep in mind you will need to work with either liquid or a scale and be able to do a slow titration over a number of months. And you'll still have waves and windows and a very unpredictable course. So you also need to factor in your ability to manage the tapering process and handle your unpredictable feelings. 

 

Personally, I would not reinstate at this point. Or at least, give yourself a few days with really trying some of the non-drug coping options listed before reinstating. 

 

I also think you're dealing with some exhaustion, sometimes referred to as "battle fatigue" from being so sick for so many months. The non-drug coping skills will help with this and teach you how to nurture and care for yourself.  

 

After you have a chance to read over Rosetta's and my posts and to check out the links, let us know what you think. 

[musk]

Thank you very much, Shep and Rosetta, for taking the time to help me.

I am extremely frightened by new physical symptoms. I need to know if it is normal for new symptoms to appear that I did not suffer before.

For example, I suffer from dizziness, never before. I have tooth pain, not before. The eyelids of my eyes tremble, this is also new.
 
But, on the other hand, now I believe that the akathisia has decreased, and that the last week I am sleeping a few hours more, naturally, without help. And consequently, I also have more dreams. A week ago I took a short nap with my little daughter after lunch, this was impossible the previous months. I also do not have suicide ideas as clear as a few weeks ago. It's just an impression, I'm confused, and I do not trust myself very much.

Please, those of you who have experience, clarify if it is normal for physical symptoms to appear and change in this way.

About reinstating:

I would only reinstate if it is the best for my future health. I do not want to endanger my health in the long term. If continuing drug-free does not endanger my future health, I will endure, I will have to endure. If you, Shep, tell me that personally you would not reinstate, then I will not. You have more knowledge than me. Also, if reinstating would also suffer waves and windows and unpredictable situations, I am very afraid. I am very confused at this point. Sometimes I think, that without reinstating, I'm playing Russian roulette to end up with a serious chronic illness.

I understand that if I have already seen windows I am somehow getting cured. I find it hard to believe, but I guess that's the way it will be. In my windows I felt myself again, my old self, connected to my surroundings, observing the outside, communicating with people, and motivated to carry out tasks and little projects. That's how I felt, and physically well (except back pain).

I thank you very much for the techniques you propose. I realize, really, that I should invest some effort in it. I read here a time ago about "changing the channel" and in that moment I said to myself "ummm, this does not work for me", my thoughts catch me without a solution and they dominate me. When I have physical symptoms I get so scared and obsessed so much with them, that I can not think of anything else. But I will try. Especially with yoga poses

About breathing, my psychotherapist has taught me a similar technique, but different. And when I am able to do it, I do it.

I will appreciate any comments you can make. Especially about changes in physical symptoms. This is the only place where someone understands me.

 

Many many thanks.

[Shep]

22 hours ago, musk said:

I am extremely frightened by new physical symptoms. I need to know if it is normal for new symptoms to appear that I did not suffer before.

 

Yes, this is extremely common.

 

Please read:

 

One theory of antidepressants withdrawal syndrome

 

As you can see, there are different phases to withdrawal: 

 

On 5/24/2011 at 10:59 PM, Altostrata said:

My guess is: The first phase of withdrawal, the acute phase, is the initial shock of withdrawal, with the most defined symptoms, such as brain zaps and nausea and possibly waves of unusually intense "depression" and "anxiety" -- actually, emotions generated by the neurological upset. Later, glutamatergic hyper-reactivity and autonomic instability take over. Often the autonomic instability causes wide hypersensitivity to drugs, supplements, and even foods.

 

Many of us go through stages of depression, anxiety, cog fog, etc. and at other times physical symptoms such as muscle pain, dizziness, blurred vision, etc. And the symptoms can overlap, as well. 

 

It's a never-ending carnival ride of symptoms. 

 

22 hours ago, musk said:

But, on the other hand, now I believe that the akathisia has decreased, and that the last week I am sleeping a few hours more, naturally, without help. And consequently, I also have more dreams. A week ago I took a short nap with my little daughter after lunch, this was impossible the previous months. I also do not have suicide ideas as clear as a few weeks ago. It's just an impression, I'm confused, and I do not trust myself very much.

 

This is awesome, Musk! This is healing.

 

It will go back and forth. Good days and bad days. But overall, you sound like you are improving. 

 

22 hours ago, musk said:

I would only reinstate if it is the best for my future health. I do not want to endanger my health in the long term. If continuing drug-free does not endanger my future health, I will endure, I will have to endure. If you, Shep, tell me that personally you would not reinstate, then I will not. You have more knowledge than me. Also, if reinstating would also suffer waves and windows and unpredictable situations, I am very afraid. I am very confused at this point. Sometimes I think, that without reinstating, I'm playing Russian roulette to end up with a serious chronic illness.

 

With the improvements you are mentioning, I would not personally reinstate. There are no guarantees that it will work, especially this far out, and you are already seeing improvements. I know you are struggling during waves, but overall, you are doing better.

 

22 hours ago, musk said:

I thank you very much for the techniques you propose. I realize, really, that I should invest some effort in it. I read here a time ago about "changing the channel" and in that moment I said to myself "ummm, this does not work for me", my thoughts catch me without a solution and they dominate me. When I have physical symptoms I get so scared and obsessed so much with them, that I can not think of anything else. But I will try. Especially with yoga poses

 

Yes, please add in a few of the yoga poses and the breathing techniques throughout the day.

 

It may help if you could write out a list of "changing the channel" activities that are helpful. That way, when you get overwhelmed with symptoms, you can check your list and go immediately into doing that activity. It could be a walk in the park, a favorite video or video game, a favorite piece of music, etc. I have a playlist on Netflix of movies and shows I like, I have a few games on my phone so if I'm struck when I'm out, I can simply turn to my phone. 

 

There are tons of things you can do. Explore and write them down so you have them ready.

 

 

22 hours ago, musk said:

I have tooth pain, not before.

 

Are you grinding your teeth at night? This happens to a lot of people. You can talk to your dentist about getting a night guard made to wear when you sleep. 

 

Here is a thread that may give you more helpful advice:

 

Face, jaw, tongue muscle tension and pain

 

22 hours ago, musk said:

I will appreciate any comments you can make. Especially about changes in physical symptoms.

 

Let us now how you do after adding in a few yoga videos, breathing exercises, and change-the-channel activities. These changes in physical symptoms are completely normal during withdrawal, so the more non-drug coping skills you can add in, the easier it will be. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Shep
fixed typo

[musk]

16 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please read:

 

One theory of antidepressants withdrawal syndrome

 

Ohhh, mistake! I read it and now I'm even more scared. I am petrified with what happens to me. I still can not believe it. I think i can endure it, but I need to know that I do not suffer permanent damage. And nobody knows that. What nonsense I say! 

 

What is Lamotrigine? I would take anything that will save my future health. I do not mind getting quick relief: I care about my future health.

 

 

[musk]

28 minutes ago, Shep said:

 grinding your teeth at night?

No, I do not think so. I sleep with my mouth relaxed.

 

31 minutes ago, Shep said:

This is awesome, Musk! This is healing.

I wish I could see it like that. But I'm so afraid, so sad and sad because of everything I've lost ... I can not see it. That small window a week ago was something unreal. and now it seems to me that it was not so good. Are these unstable thoughts normal? I think I'm going crazy and I'm losing my mind.

 

39 minutes ago, Shep said:

you are already seeing improvements. I know you are struggling during waves, but overall, you are doing better.

Improvements? I only see worsening in the physical symptoms that I mentioned. I believe that emotionally I will improve with time, it is impossible to remain that way forever. I am worried about physical problems, that the functioning of the body is ruined. 

 

Anyway, do not believe, Shep, that I do not appreciate your message. I am very confused, I can not keep clear any ideas throughout the days.

[musk]

So, I take the idea that the symptoms are going to be like an endless carnival parade, and that the changes are normal. And that the drugs, now, will not fix anything. I'm still not too sure about this last statement, but ...

 

Now, even in the middle of this bad wave, I see myself healed in the future, and enjoying my simple way of life and my 3 children who are now suffering this nightmare. 

 

Meanwhile, I think it's better that I disconnect from the internet for a long while.

 

My story started 2,5 or 3 years ago because of the fear I had of incurable diseases and illnesses, and fed my fear with the indiscriminate use of the internet. That excessive fear, and my obsessive search for security, and my inability to admit the uncertainty of life, was what led me to accept the drugs. 

 

So, I think that life has given me this challenge of the withdrawal, in some way, to give me the option of learning those lessons. And I think that is what I will do.

 

As now, the struggles and problems of other people here scares me and affects me a lot, it is better to disconnect. I already said it before but I did not, I was so confused...

 

If I am able and I am in condition, someday, to write my success story ... I PROMISE to do it. There is one thing that intrigues me a lot and that is because many people do not come back to write their story, but I can understand it.

 

Many many many thanks. Good luck for all!

[Waterfall]

I wish you well, musk.

My journey is similar to yours in some ways.  

I will be thinking of you, and hoping things go well!  

Lately I have been posting, and doing less reading.  

I understand, it causes more fear when we are only looking for reassurance. 

May you see brighter days ahead, and may you be strong in the dark ones, as you wait for the brigher ones!  

[Altostrata]

On 5/12/2018 at 10:19 AM, musk said:

My story started 2,5 or 3 years ago because of the fear I had of incurable diseases and illnesses, and fed my fear with the indiscriminate use of the internet. That excessive fear, and my obsessive search for security, and my inability to admit the uncertainty of life, was what led me to accept the drugs. 

 

So, I think that life has given me this challenge of the withdrawal, in some way, to give me the option of learning those lessons. And I think that is what I will do.

 

If you tend towards health anxiety, this is definitely something you will need to learn to manage in order to get through withdrawal syndrome and live drug-free. Please find a counselor near you who can coach you in managing your health anxiety. Cognitive behavior therapy can be helpful.

[musk]

I come back here even though I said I was disconnected, because I have nowhere to go !

 

I have continued reading and researching on the internet. Because my situation is CRITICAL and INSUSTAINABLE. I no longer have support anywhere, in any person.

 

My condition has gotten much worse in the last week. Before it was very bad, but now it is unsustainable, several times I have been about to go to the emergency room of the hospital (although I know that there will not solve anything, taking into account that my priority is my long-term health, not the immediate relief).

 

Insomnia has clearly worsened, and especially the akathisia (or what I consider to be akathisia, I do not know what to think anymore). I always suffer in the second half of the night. I can not be quiet, quiet. Interestingly, if I focus on my "addiction" (read studies and opinions on the internet), I'm sitting still.

 

I am in a very difficult situation, and I do not know how to act to make a good decision. I do not pretend to be drug free, that is not my main objective. My goal is my long-term health and the well-being of myself and my family, even if I am taking a drug. But I suspect that no drug can fix the problem I suffer, and maybe make it worse.

 

I am very concerned about akathisia, I have read that when it appears late in the absence of drugs, it is usually permanent.

 

However, I have read some stories here of people who have not chronicized this symptom (Matisse, Pug, Stan ... someone else?). Also in Benzobuddies there are people who say that this symptom disappeared at any given time.

 

I had some little windows 2 weeks ago, symptom free. 

 

Please HELP.

 

[JanCarol]

Hey Musk - 

 

On 5/12/2018 at 3:15 AM, musk said:

Please, those of you who have experience, clarify if it is normal for physical symptoms to appear and change in this way.

 

Yes.  Withdrawal is a cruel joke - you have good days followed by bad ones.

 

You just got used to the muscle dystonias, but the symptoms change and morph into dizziness or something else.

 

There is a wide array of symptoms that you can receive in withdrawal, here is a partial list of what is most common:

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's Mogst Common symptoms of Withdrawal

 

It may be helpful to you to print out several of these lists and track how your symptoms change over time.

 

You will see improvements in some symptoms, over time.  You will see new symptoms crop up - and then vanish as quickly as they came.  You will have some symptoms which are sticky, which may be the "main theme" of your withdrawal.  For some that sticky thing is nausea, for others, insomnia.  These drugs affect your digestive system, your endocrine system, your nervous system and your brain.  When you have a symptom, look on the list - is it a "common" symptom (there are hundreds more than the list has, which are also common).  If not, does it involve your digestive, endocrine, nervous system, or brain?  (like, that's your whole body)  Then, it's probably withdrawal.

 

The reasons that the symptoms change over time, is that you are healing.  When you have a muscular symptom, you can say - "ah.  My nervous system is healing."  When you feel dizzy, you can say, "ah, my endocrine system is healing."  When you have spikes of panic - that's endocrine and nervous system, too.  Your body will go through and "test" all of your systems in order to heal them - but the pendulum will swing several times before you come back into balance.

 

We don't have a magic answer here.  We were all told that the pills would do amazing things, and they messed many of us up.  After so many months, I would be very hesitant to reinstate.  There are a few people who have benefited after so long - but - know this.  Even if you do reinstate, it won't take you "all the way well."  It might help.  It might also throw you into more symptoms, as it would be fiddling with your neurotransmitters that are healing.  The sad thing is - we give reinstatement suggestions pretty early on, and they are frequently ignored until the symptoms become unbearable - and then it may be too late to reinstate.

You've been off Sertraline for 8 months.

You did a fast taper of diazapam for 3 months, and you've only been off for 2 months.

You were on hypericum for 2 months after withdrawing from Sertraline.  It is unknown whether this lifted your withdrawal or made it worse.  Why did you stop it?  I can't read your whole thread tonight - I'm wondering if it helped?  Or did your symptoms come in fully in January when you signed up here?

 

There are very few who benefited from reinstatement this far out.  Sometimes it just perturbs things.  Now that more time has passed, I would reduce Alto's suggestion of 2 mg to 1 mg.  Liquid Sertraline is strong:  20 mg / ml, you would have to dilute the liquid substantially to get 1 mg.  It's risky, but you will know right away whether it is helping or hurting.  The question about reinstatement is:  can you take the risk that you might have a big wave from trying it?

 

I would not reinstate the hypericum, even though it was more recent, as your withdrawal is from sertraline and diazepam.  And we don't recommend reinstating the diazepam.

 

5 hours ago, musk said:

I am very concerned about akathisia, I have read that when it appears late in the absence of drugs, it is usually permanent.

 

Everyone I know who came off the drugs, the akathisia faded over time - much like Stan and Benzobuddies say.

It is the hardest wave to ride.  That and the insomnia - and you have both.  You get deep sympathy from me.

 

One of the best practices for akathisia is dancing.  I'm beginning to learn that akathisia might be a way the body shakes off the trauma of the drug's affect - and if this is true, it might be an excellent sign of healing, even though it's very hard to endure.  Dancing and shaking on purpose help the nervous system to move through akathisia to the other side.

 

Here's a practice I recommend for akathisia:
 

It is less than 5 minutes long - so it's very easy to do.

it might even be something you can do with the children, that they can help you heal and make you laugh while you do it.  It can be a "silly thing we do together."  Teaching it to them will help them deal with their traumas of living, as well.  When an animal is stressed, they will shake for a few minutes and then be over the trauma.  For social reasons, humans stopped doing that.  Returning to our animal bodies to shake out stress and trauma is a natural way of dealing with hardship.

Hang in there Musk.  I hope you see the sun today (really, those daily walks don't have to be much - mine were just 5-7 minutes long, for 3 years while I healed, out in the sunlight. Make them small, so that they are easy to do, and you don't have an excuse not to do them!)

[musk]

2 hours ago, JanCarol said:

It may be helpful to you to print out several of these lists and track how your symptoms change over time.

 

You will see improvements in some symptoms, over time. 

 

Thank you very much Jan Carol, for your kind explanation.

 

I do not know, I'm full of doubts and terror. I still find it hard to believe that this is happening, it's so surreal.

 

I have not seen any improvement over time, that's why I'm very worried.

 

In a previous message I mentioned that I started sleeping a little more, but it is clear that I was wrong. Because in summary, I have worsened.

 

2 hours ago, JanCarol said:

The reasons that the symptoms change over time, is that you are healing. 

 

This is what I always read here and there, and try to believe. But it is very hard to believe that I am healing, because it seems rather that I am gradually getting sick of Parkinson's or something similar.

 

I have consulted 2 neurologists recently, both have not seen anything at all.  One of them is a specialist in movement disorders, the reference doctor in my area. But... I do not trust.

 

It is ridiculous (?), but this was my original problem that led me to take the antidepressant: that I did not believe the doctors and only I knew that I had a disease that was difficult to diagnose. Now, this original problem returns to me multiplied x 1000.

 

Yes, I must trust and believe, but my body keeps telling me that something is very wrong. I try to believe that it's healing, but it is extremely hard to believe that. 

 

The only thing that breaks my scheme in some way, is when I see a window, it's a strange thing that happens: all ideas and thoughts change then. It's been a long time since there's no window, anyway.

 

2 hours ago, JanCarol said:

After so many months, I would be very hesitant to reinstate. 

 

If I see signs that I am developing a serious neurological disease, I am clear that I will take the drug that is needed and more.

 

And another type of antidepressant would work? Is that for my children I am willing to do anything.

 

2 hours ago, JanCarol said:

It is unknown whether this lifted your withdrawal or made it worse.  Why did you stop it?  I can't read your whole thread tonight - I'm wondering if it helped?  Or did your symptoms come in fully in January when you signed up here?

 

I left the hypericum because I saw no benefit. But after letting it all got worse and more intense, yes. So I'm not sure if it helped or not.

Yes, everything got worse in January when I came here, and since January things are very very bad. At the beginning of February I had a kind of window (a few days). Then already shorter windows, but somewhat clearer, every two weeks or so. I also see some emotional relief towards evening, except for a few days of exception. I also recently started having dreams, but that is over this last week.

 

2 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Everyone I know who came off the drugs, the akathisia faded over time - much like Stan and Benzobuddies say.

 

This relatively calm me. I do not know if what happens to me is akathisia or not, but it does not matter. The problem is that it has gotten inside my head, that the late akathisia that appears once out of drugs, is permanent.

 

This is like my lack of confidence in the medical opinions and tests, that I mentioned above. It is a personal characteristic of me (prior to drugs) to always believe the worst, the worst and most tragic of possibilities. And I'm afraid that life has hit me with this, as proof that I am going to be my own self-fulfilling prophecy. Why the hell do I hurt myself this way ???

 

A proof of this addiction for the worst of the worst without objective reason, is my inability to stay away from the Internet, I know well it hurts me, but I return again and again without remedy and without control. In this time I could be in sunlight or walking on the beach, but I do not. I'm licking my wounds, as I've always done it.

 

I have always been guided by my brain, I am analytical and intectual ... but my heart tells me, in my deep interior, I know that if I was capable and brave enough to break this circle, things would improve for me a lot. Even the same would be solved.

 

2 hours ago, JanCarol said:

I'm beginning to learn that akathisia might be a way the body shakes off the trauma of the drug's affect - and if this is true, it might be an excellent sign of healing, even though it's very hard to endure.  Dancing and shaking on purpose help the nervous system to move through akathisia to the other side.

 

I agree. My therapist is sure of this fact.

 

But from there to overcome it there is a big difference. Parkinson's seems to have a lot to do with trauma, but people do not heal ... do you understand me, yes?

 

I'm so so scared... I want to die. If I did not have children, I would have no doubt: I would not be here writing. Life is not to lose it like that, it's not worth it.

 

I think that what happens to me now is a great personality crisis, everything that happens to me now is somehow related to my personality of origin. I see this fact clearly. And now I do not know anymore, what is the withdrawal, and what is my dysfunctional personality.

[JanCarol]

The thing is - drug induced Parkinson's traits get better after the drugs are gone.  

 

You were not on neuroleptics (called "antipsychotics" as a marketing term), which can make the Parkinsonian traits more permanent.

 

This, too, will pass.

 

You've seen 2 neurologists.  

 

Please read Aria's success story.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5740-arias-recovery/

 

She was on a lot more drugs than you and is recovered.  Most of her damage was from "neuroleptics."

 

Anyhow, I point you to her, because it was a neurologist who said:  "you are on too many drugs."

 

I just found this in your original post:

Quote

In consultation of rheumatology I discover that I have a hlab27 gene related to ankylosing spondylitis, which conditions me mentally more and more. 

 

Did you know that 2/3 of people with this hlab27 gene do not manifest ankylosing spondylitis?  I think that genetic testing can do more harm than good, as they don't really know what makes genes manifest (hint, it's the environment the genes are exposed to), and it just scares people.

 

If your neurologists are finding nothing, it is time to WAIT.  You just quit a benzo 2 months ago.  It's been less than a year since you CT'd your sertraline.  You won't know anything until at least a year from that.  This is a slow process.  I suggest you read Brassmonkey's excellent descriptions of healing time, here: 

 

And if you fixate and worry about "the unknown," it will slow your healing time.

 

Learn to take a moment at a time.  Learn to express gratitude for every little thing.  I got out of bed, okay!  Thank you!  I had breakfast  Okay!  Thank you!  I got the kids off to school, thank you!  I saw the sky - or a bird - or a pretty plant = thank you!  The more beads of gratitude you collect, the less time you are spending on awful things.  They might be tiny beads, little seed pearls of gratitude, but if you get enough of them, you can string them together and make it through the day.

If a whole breath is too much, just exhale.  You survived that.  Now inhale, you survived that.  

All of your symptoms are, thus far, normal in withdrawal.  What is shocking - is that - as common as these symptoms are, the medical world still doesn't recognize them.

It's time to wait.  Survive your symptoms, one pearl at a time.

[Rosetta]

JanCarol, you are amazing!  

 

Musk, your Akathisia will lessen very slowly and go away completely.  I am healing, and I have longer and longer periods of time without any "shadows of Akathisia."  What I mean by that is that I have moments when I have Restless legs syndrome which is somehow related to Akathisia, I believe.  Quite frankly, the anxiety caused by RLS, because it reminds me of Akathisia, is more of a problem than the RLS!!  (EDIT: I also have restless arms, but I don't have the whole body Akathisia feeling and the restless mind may be there, but not at all to the same degree as before.)

 

I was very, very sick 8 months after I stopped the AD.  It may seem logical that one should not get worse after stopping the medicine, but it was true for me.  Then I started getting better about 9 months after stopping the AD.  The timeline is different for everyone, but my point is -- in ADWD it is true that some people get worse before getting better.  I worried and worried and worried myself sick over this very illogical progress of the illness.  I wish I could give you the certainty that I feel now that I will heal.  I can't, but know that I have it.  I get better all the time very slowly.  There will come a day, Musk, when you are back to normal and can enjoy your life.  You may enjoy it even more because of this horrible experience.  

 

Rosetta

[musk]

Thank you both for taking the trouble to write me all this, you are both very brave.

 

I wish I had a quarter of your courage.

[Rosetta]

You do have our courage.  You will see.  I didn't think I had it either.  Now that I realize what I have lived through I am shocked, sometimes, that I did it.   You will see just how strong you are.  What you have described so far tells me you are strong enough.  Take it day by day or hour by hour.  You will be amazed.