Linus Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Moderator note: link to Linus' benzo thread - Linus: Klonopin question Hi everyone, I like this forum, I think the moderators are sensible people who give good advice, compared to some other websites. I have already come a long way with regards to withdrawing from Escitalopram, from 30mg to 1.8 mg. It has been hell but hey here I am I know that by now even small cuts are problematic. My first question would be if anyone has a clue as to whether there comes a point in the withdrawal where things get easier (like at 1mg or 0.8 mg) or does it stay funky all the way down to zero? Edited January 12, 2018 by Shep added tags and link to benzo forum thread Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 9, 2018 Administrator Share Posted January 9, 2018 Welcome, Linus. Thank you for your kind words. I think we have excellent moderators, too. What method did you use to taper escilatopram? If it's been difficult, you may wish to hold here for a while and let your nervous system settle down before the final push. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Linus Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 You're welcome Altostrata, The method I used varied with time, at first I was totally clueless as to how one should do it, and you have probably heard this a million times, most shrinks are totally clueless, they subscribe their psychotropic medication like candy, and then it is for their patients to find out first what incredible garbage they were given and second to clean up the mess so to speak. I read something yesterday on this forum which made me laugh out loud, something like '...and another arrogant and ignorant psychiatrist..... I so recognise this. I don't really remember how I went from 30 to 10 mg, too big chunks that is for sure. From 10 mg (this was about a year and a half aog) I found a psychiatrist who dislikes ad's as much as I do, and I started doing a slower taper, first to 8 then 6 and that is when it became impossible to taper such amounts, so it became 0.4 I think, now it has been 0.1 or 0.2 drops. However she made the mistake to give me Klonopin to help with ad withdrawal, big mistake off course, nobody is perfect, but again I will have to taper of that crap when I am fhinished with the ad. A few days ago I made the mistake of simultaneously tapering the ad and the benzo (a 1.3 percent drop of K, water titration method), should not have done that, I will now focus solely on the ad. I Next week I will go to 1.7 mg. Because I am forced to cut smaller amounts, I would really like to know if you have any anecdotal evidence of people here who reported that after a certain point, the tapering stops being difficult? Otherwise this could still drag on for quite some time.... Thanks Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 12, 2018 Administrator Share Posted January 12, 2018 Quite frequently, people come here who have been tapering too fast, in the same state as you. If you're having withdrawal symptoms, if I were you, I would not taper for a while. Let your nervous system rest. The principle is: "If you're in a hole, stop digging." You should very, very gradually start feeling better. Please let us know how you're doing. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Linus Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Thanks Altostrata, I will try my best to slow things down a little, the reason I want to come of these medications as fast as possible is that I have an underlying condition which can only be adressed once the meds are out of my system (cptsd). For example emdr did not work at all a couple of months ago, now I at least had one session where I clearly showed emotion. With my last dosage reductions I noticed a postive change, namely that I started feeling emotions again (or in a different way, hard to explain). I also had problems with dissociation for years (every day), like a couple of months ago I only had it in the evening, now with further reductions in the last 10 days there was only one day I really dissociated, so my thinking is the chemical straight jacket they gave might have hindered me in adressing dissociaton. I can't know for sure, but it sure as hell does not seem like a coincidence... Giving people with ptsd antidepressants is probably a very bad thing to do, and this is me being very polite, Anyway I will try to not rush things. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Waltjie Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Linus, I admire your FANTASTIC progress! I'm actually jealous of you. I'm 6 months into my tapering process, and I've been stuck at the 10mg dosage for couple of months now. I just can't seem to get properly stabilized.... urgh! You are so close to the end, I wish you all the BEST and only long windows of peace! Love. (2002 - 2007) Arapax, Cipramil, Effexor, Prozac (2008 - June 2017) Escitalopram, 15mg daily (Started tapering July 1st 2017, 10% pm) July 13.5mg August 12mg September 11mg October - 12March 10mg 12-14 March 9mg 15 March - present 10mg Link to comment
Linus Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Thank you Waltjie for your kind words all the way from South Africa I am sorry to hear you are having difficulties in your tapering process, for me tapering always pretty much followed the same trajectory: I would start feeling a dosage reduction after about five days, then there would be five days of clear and gruesome withdrawal symptoms after which they pretty much faded away, this did not mean I would feel ok, because of my underlying 'condition' (ptsd and depersonalisation). In other words I still feel bad after every reduction, it is just I can tell it is no longer from withdrawal. I always tell my current psychiatrist who is supportive about me coming of antidepressants, that I can not tell what is caused by the chemicals from the ad and what is caused by my underlying condition. That the administration of the ad has a detrimental effect, I am sure of, to what extent that is impossible to say. So I do not know about your situation, did you feel fine before starting your taper and did problems only arise after you started tapering? Or do you also still have an underlying condition which needs to be adressed? Warm wishes Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Linus Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 Thank you for your kind words. I too wish you a full recovery. I am going to write a post about Somatic Experiencing (a body oriented therapy for trauma) on this forum somewhere in the near future. I did a quick search and found this with regards to OCD: https://www.bridgestorecovery.com/blog/emdr-shows-remarkable-promise-for-post-traumatic-ocd-treatment/ "Many people explicitly connect their OCD symptoms with histories of trauma, and can distinctly trace the evolution of their obsessions and compulsions to specific moments in their lives in which they experienced overwhelming distress. Despite this, OCD has historically been treated in isolation, as a discrete disorder unrelated to traumatic events, leaving debilitating and painful symptoms unaddressed. Over the past decade, however, a growing body of research confirming the links between OCD and trauma has called the wisdom of this approach into question, and has led to a more nuanced understanding of post-traumatic OCD treatment." If this is something you can relate to, I would advise a combination of emdr and somatic experiencing. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Waltjie Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Linus said: Thank you Waltjie for your kind words all the way from South Africa I am sorry to hear you are having difficulties in your tapering process, for me tapering always pretty much followed the same trajectory: I would start feeling a dosage reduction after about five days, then there would be five days of clear and gruesome withdrawal symptoms after which they pretty much faded away, this did not mean I would feel ok, because of my underlying 'condition' (ptsd and depersonalisation). In other words I still feel bad after every reduction, it is just I can tell it is no longer from withdrawal. I always tell my current psychiatrist who is supportive about me coming of antidepressants, that I can not tell what is caused by the chemicals from the ad and what is caused by my underlying condition. That the administration of the ad has a detrimental effect, I am sure of, to what extent that is impossible to say. So I do not know about your situation, did you feel fine before starting your taper and did problems only arise after you started tapering? Or do you also still have an underlying condition which needs to be adressed? Warm wishes You are most welcome, Linus! Thank you so much for taking time to respond to me. My first couple of reductions followed the same pattern as you described above, really. I would reduce, four days later I would feel like crap, and then things would get better until it is time to reduce again. I did this, and my last reduction happened in October. I decided to give myself a break during November and December. I felt ¨normal¨ during this time. Things got a bit stressful at home with my partner loosing his job, work got really busy and.... I think this might have been a trigger for me... on 21 December I went to my cupboard to take my pill for the night, when I realized that I had RUN OUT!! This has NEVER happened to me before, like ever! I got into such a panic. I got someone to drive to the pharmacy for me the next day and took the pill as soon as I could. On Christmas Day, is when I started feeling a little ¨out of it¨.... and I´ve yet to get back to where I was prior to this. So I am hoping that this is ¨normal¨ and that it will soon pass. Two days ago I actually had a much better day, I was smiling and I was focusing on my symptoms as much. Today I am going for a massage, and I am very much looking forward to that! Love. (2002 - 2007) Arapax, Cipramil, Effexor, Prozac (2008 - June 2017) Escitalopram, 15mg daily (Started tapering July 1st 2017, 10% pm) July 13.5mg August 12mg September 11mg October - 12March 10mg 12-14 March 9mg 15 March - present 10mg Link to comment
Linus Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 I hope you will feel better soon. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Waltjie Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, Linus said: I hope you will feel better soon. Thanks so much. (2002 - 2007) Arapax, Cipramil, Effexor, Prozac (2008 - June 2017) Escitalopram, 15mg daily (Started tapering July 1st 2017, 10% pm) July 13.5mg August 12mg September 11mg October - 12March 10mg 12-14 March 9mg 15 March - present 10mg Link to comment
Linus Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 1.05mg now I find withdrawal intensifies, worst used to be over after ten days, now more like 15 days or so, am doing 0.1mg reductions at the moment Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Linus Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 0.67 mg Wish I could sue for the harm they caused me by selling me a lie. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Linus Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share Posted December 23, 2018 0.65 mg Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted December 23, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 23, 2018 Nice and slowly, that's the way. How are you feeling? * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Linus Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/23/2018 at 11:14 PM, ChessieCat said: Nice and slowly, that's the way. How are you feeling? Not so great, but thanks for asking. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Linus Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 0.52 mg Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 19, 2019 Administrator Share Posted January 19, 2019 Please stop tapering for a couple of months and let your nervous system rest. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Linus Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 Thanks for you concern, but I'll be fine. As you propably know by now I have ptsd, so my nervous system does not get any rest anyway with or without tapering. I need to get my ad to zero in order for therapy (emdr) to work, see http://robertferriemd.com/psychiatric-drugs-and-emdr/ Ptsd is like being frozen, and taking ad on top of that is like adding an extra layer of ice every day, at least that is my experience. I have been tapering a couple of years now, so I know what I can handle, if this cut proves to be too much, I will definitely slow down. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus eymen23 Posted January 20, 2019 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 20, 2019 Linus, Now you are on much lower dose of the drug, are you sure the EMDR therapy will not be effective? I appreciate I’m not a Dr or an expert in complex PTSD, but as long as the drug is not causing you to feel emotionally numb, I’m a little surprised the PTSD treatment is not possible. Also, you will likely be feeling the effects of being on/off AD’s beyond reaching 0. I believe people speak of 12 months drug free as a realistic milestone (please correct me if I’m wrong). Unless the AD is causing symptoms that truly stop the effeciacy for PTSD treatment, I would imagine tapering faster than your nervous system is happy with, is going to cause more problems to your overall treatment than it solves. PLEASE NOTE: I am not a medical professional. I can only provide information and make suggestions. Link to comment
Linus Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 Thank you for your comment @eymen23 The thing is the antidepressant does make me emotionally numb, that I can say for sure, and I also think an ad is very bad if you suffer from dissociaton, after I hit a certain treshold in my ad taper, my dissociation got better, it is still here, but very different from before. I am not sure what will happen if I reach zero, I can only hope EMDR will have an effect then, unfortunetaly there are no guarantees , so far it did not work, my psychiatrist also says antidepressants and EMDR do not go well together, crossing my fingers. 2 hours ago, eymen23 said: I would imagine tapering faster than your nervous system is happy with, is going to cause more problems to your overall treatment than it solves. I have to agree, but I can differentiate my ptsd symptoms from withdrawal effects, the withdrawal is painful, but so is the ptsd, so I am between a rock and a hard place. I don't have the feeling I am going too fast, since I can clearly tell when the withdrawal effect subsides. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus eymen23 Posted January 20, 2019 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 20, 2019 Linus, Sounds like you are very aware of your symptoms and what impact the drug and its withdrawal are having. Good luck with the taper. PLEASE NOTE: I am not a medical professional. I can only provide information and make suggestions. Link to comment
Linus Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 Thanks, appreciate it ! I wish you the same @eymen23 Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Carmie Posted March 24, 2019 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 24, 2019 How are you doing Linus?💚 Seroquel. 2019:➡️ From 7.25mg to 5.80mg✔️ 2020➡️From 5.60 to 4.80✔️ 2021➡️From 4.60 to 4.0✔️ 2022➡️From 3.95 to 3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️ 2024➡️Jan15=3.20✔️ Feb19=3.15✔️ March26=3.10✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor. Link to comment
Linus Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 On 3/24/2019 at 11:09 AM, Carmie said: How are you doing Linus?💚 Oops, looks like I forgot to reply, I am currently taking 0.32 mg. Escitalopram 1.05 mg (max of 30 mg, taper from 10 mg to now started september 2016) Klonopin 0.3 mg (one dosage reduction of 25 percent, from 0.4 to 0.3 mg september 2017) Supplements: magnesium malate, fish oil, curcumin, multivitamin, iodine, probiotics, vitamine D along with eating healthy 80 percent of the time, I have no problem whatsoever taking supplements. Link to comment
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