Rabe: how to taper and adjust Viibryd while on Clonazepam

[DMV64]

11 hours ago, Carmie said:

Sometimes it feels like we will never stabilise but then eventually we do.

I hang on to this. For real. People on the outside don't really know what it is like...

[Rabe]

saw doctor and will have some tests.  electrolytes are fine but infection and stuff.  Need upper GI...know my reflux has caused issues.  everything I eat and take seems to go right to my system and not through stomach.  really not well.  wish everyone love.  will check in.

[Shep]

17 hours ago, Rabe said:

electrolytes are fine but infection and stuff.

 

Is the infection anything that needs to be treated?

 

Please be careful if the treatment involves antibiotics. The fluoroquinolones antibiotics are especially dangerous for someone on benzos. Fluroquinolones can displace benzodiazepines from benzodiazepine receptors which can send you into acute withdrawal. 

 

There are many other kinds of antibiotics that are much safer, so just wanted to bring your attention to this. 

 

In case you need to research this:

 

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin (Z-Pack), and other antibiotics

[Rabe]

I go back tomorrow...thank you for all that Shep. High white count, uncertain why.  I truly am so grateful.

 

I am not tolerating food well, especially fats and oils, high histamine, dairy, fiber, prot4ein..thank goodness for oatmeal and apples.  I wont be able to use the compounded viibryd because of the oils.  Do you or someone know if Viibryd dissolves in water?  I think thats the only way left.

I could weigh but the reviews I have read on the scale are a bit scary...but dont know.  Thank you again.  Hope you are doing well Shep.

 

 

[Rabe]

@wantrelief @Carmie @FarmGirlWorks @Rosetta @mirage @DMV64 

Just wanted to thank you all for your support and say I hold all of you and all of us in my heart daily.  I hope you all are doing ok.  Take care! 💜

[Rosetta]

Thinking of you, Rabe. - Rosetta

[Carmie]

Hi Rabe, 

 

Thinking of you n hoping you’re having a good day. I’m chilling out for the afternoon but have spent the morning with friends. I went for a walk n sat in a park before then. I’ve got lots of lovely memories from this morning. 

 

I can barely move now but it was worth it. 

 

Sending big hugs🤗🤗

[Rabe]

@Carmie Thank you so much Carmie.  My wave or whatever is continuing full strength.  Long days and I find it hard to do much...but did walk a but today so that was nice.  I had to tell my daughter and her daughter not to come today which made me sad but the have had many special moments along the way..just very hard for her to understand.  Your day sounds lovely. Take care!💜

[Rabe]

Probably a dumb question, but can you use rubbing alcohol to clean wounds when tapering?

[Carmie]

6 hours ago, Rabe said:

@Carmie Thank you so much Carmie.  My wave or whatever is continuing full strength.  Long days and I find it hard to do much...but did walk a but today so that was nice.  I had to tell my daughter and her daughter not to come today which made me sad but the have had many special moments along the way..just very hard for her to understand.  Your day sounds lovely. Take care!💜

 

Hi Rabe, 

 

Im sorry you’re still in a wave. I’m going through windows n waves but today is mainly a window. You never know how you will be from moment to moment though. You think yay, I’m in a window n next minute you crash again. It’s just a matter of taking each moment as it comes. 

 

Yes, we all need to learn to say no. I’ve gotten used to saying  no a lot because of my illness. I don’t push myself to the limit anymore. I’ll say yes if I really want to do something, even if I’m not feeling great but I don’t force myself to do things I’m on half heartedly interested in.

 

I do a lot of things with different friends but I also spend a lot of time on my own. I like my space too n I’m learning to stop pleasing, some people are just toxic n use you n you feel awful around them. Time to limit that kind of interaction, even if they’re family. 

 

Don’t feel guilty about saying no to things. Withdrawals is the hardest thing we will ever go through n you need to take care of yourself. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

 

 

[Rabe]

@Carmie I know you are right Carmie...just find it difficult when is my family...my kids.  Thank you so much Carmie!!  Continue to take care of you!  You are a ray of sunshine!!! 💜

[Rabe]

@Altostrata said:

"If you feel you still have adverse effects from Prozac, you may wish to carefully lower the dosage and see if that helps. If your nervous system is sensitized, a little goes a long way.

 

Prozac comes in a a prescription liquid for titration. If I were you, I'd reduce by no more than 10% per month, observing the effects. Given Prozac's long half-life, you may not feel any reduction for weeks. See Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)"

 

I just wanted to say thank you, Alto, for these comments on the other thread...your wisdom helps me understand things better and I am grateful.  I have been holding in hopes of stabilizing...or feeling more stable, but that doesnt seem to want to happen and it seems the drugs are so paradoxical, unpredictable, dont feel well after taking.  Feeling perhaps a small taper given the 'a little goes a long way' for a sensitized nervous system makes sense. 

 

Also, the second part about long half lives makes me better understand why I did not feel the rapid taper in Sept until weeks later...the doctor thought I was going to sail through it all because I was not vomiting etc (cant even remember what he said) after a few days.  Perhaps the longer half life had something to do with that..

In any case, just wanted to thank you for all your wisdom and sharing... 

[Rabe]

@Shep I juset wanted to say how much your advice about the antibiotics meant to me...I would not have known!  I took that information to my doctor.  Thank you again Shep!💜

[Rabe]

I wanted to try to catch up some here...I think about everyone daily!  Will continue to check in...hoping things get better.  Blessings to all!!!💜

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey

I have a question?  I read Pokeshaws thread and it was something I was going to ask but thought it could not happen. Can you taper with a compounded capsule?  That would take the oils out of the picture.

My other question is as he asked as well...the reviews on the scales are not great...makes me hesitant about doing that?  Thoughts?

Leads to last question...does Viibryd dissolve well in water?

Trying to find a way ahead here.

Thank you so much!

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey  meant to say the only thing in the capsules is viibryd and brown rice flour.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Rabe--  Yes, you can taper with compounded capsules.  You need to know the strength of the capsule and the average weight of the powder in them to figure the reduction.

 

Viibryd is soluble in water at a rate of 32mg per 100mL of water.

 

The scales that are available for us at a reasonable price come with mixed reviews.  I think that the people who give them bad reviews are not using them in the correct manner or are trying to use them in a manner that they are not designed for.  a large number of out members use them and we have had very few negative reviews here.  I thik it comes down to learning the scales you have and working within their limitations.  The only real problem comes at the end of a taper when we are working with the very small doses.  Most of the scales have trouble weighing less than 4mg of dose weight which with many medications can work out about .5mg of active ingredient.  I was able to use that and then divide the dose visually to get a final dose of .08mgai.  So it is possible it just takes a little technique.

[Shep]

8 hours ago, Rabe said:

@Shep I juset wanted to say how much your advice about the antibiotics meant to me...I would not have known!  I took that information to my doctor.  Thank you again Shep!💜

 

You're welcome, Rabe.

 

The best thing to do is to post about any new medication before taking them. I know for me, this forum has been a wealth of information and I wouldn't ingest any drug at this point without doing as much research as possible. 

 

I actually have fluoroquinolone antibiotics listed as an allergy on my medical records, as I've read even years after coming off benzos, these kinds of antibiotics can still cause problems. And there really are safer alternatives for most illnesses requiring an antibiotic. 

[Rabe]

@Shep thank you for that...that would be a good idea.  I never tolerated antibiotics well anyway...

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey Thank you so much.  On the universal claim sip it says 27 of the 10mg tablets, #3 gelatin capsule and 3.249GM of brown rice flour.

Would we need to know more than that?

 

From the capsules we would weigh or dissolve? 

 

For a liquid we would dissolve a tablet?  

On 9/9/2018 at 10:14 PM, brassmonkey said:

Viibryd is soluble in water at a rate of 32mg per 100mL of water.

I dont know what this means...grateful that you do...just wondering.

 

I dont know which is easier if there is such a thing.  My mind is much most of the time.  Finally a small window today.

 

Thank you again.

 

 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Working with tablets from the manufacturer is usually the best way to go.  If you work from the compounded capsules it throws another variable into the mix that could be bothersome.  I prefer to use manufactured tablets and scales, but tablets and water would work fine also.

 

"Viibryd is soluble in water at a rate of 32mg per 100mL of water."  This means that 100mL of water can only dissolve 32mg of medication.  If there is more medication it will simply settle to the bottom of the bottle.  So if you tried to dissolve a 20mg tablet in 100mL of water all the medication would dissolve, but if you tried to dissolve a 40mg tablet you would waste 8mg.

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey Thank you for that explanation!  Makes sense now...interesting.  You guys know so much!  Grateful!

 

Well, can use original tablets if you feel best.  Scares me bit but knowing you're here to guide helps.  Just that I know when tapering  I get muddled depressed and OCD etc and its a chore to get up and eat anything much less make pills that I obsess over ...but that was tapering then.  

 

The more I read here the more I understand, sadly, why system is such a mess.  The rapid taper last fall with the viibryd was with pills that I had to try to cut in quarters which was not accurate, and the clonazepam right after that in hospital was pills, then liquid and pills, then pills then liquid and pills again  and the halves they cut were way off...yikes!  And then when starting the viibryd taper this spring I went right from pills to compounded capsules...just never occurred to me but after the second .5 drop I knew something was amiss.  Feel next taper will hopefully be smoother and less jolting. 👍 

 

I am grateful for the advice to hold longer with all the dosing changes.  Still feel my system is so over reactive but perhaps that is just the way it will be?  just wish could better tolerate the olive oil or almond oil.  Liquid would be a nice option...but maybe less accurate?  I can try the oils again and see how stomach does.  If not, the doctor will give me samples of the Viibryd.

 

Could I ask, would you still taper viibryd first?  I am finding some of my anxiety related to foods and am going to see a dietician per my GP for some thoughts re salicylates (ASA allergy) and histamine (stress and methylation issues?).  Hope to get some guidance on how to eat high potassium foods that dont make me feel icky and anxious and bloated and all.  

 

As I better understand some of the ins and outs of tapering, changing dose forms, waves and windows, adding or deleting other meds, over doing when have one ok day, etc..how to know which med is more troublesome....everything changes all the time....symptom patterns r/t meds etc.  Like no two days are same for long.  Is that normal at this point?  Last capsule change was Clonazepam July 16 when went from 7 of .1mg to 1 of .7 and couple weeks later to 1 of .2 instead of 2 of .1.  And recently got a new viibryd compounded capsule.  

 

One more thing...still the gemini scale and 0 size capsules?  Anything else?  Capsule holder or something to put the med in the capsule with?  

 

This was way too long...sorry...thank you again brassmonkey!!! Take care!

 

  

[Carmie]

Hi Rabe, 

 

Hope all goes well when you eventually taper again. So many calculations one has to make in this journey.

 

I read some more of your two threads today, Im so sorry that the doctors mucked you around so much with different things. The same thing happened to me. Our bodies are now all over the place. 

 

My brainfog isn’t too great today. Did I read you spent $170 on compounding capsules for a month or so. I went to look in your thread again to see if I could find it but I’m struggling to focus. I only payed around $100 or so for six months. It’s big money making this pharmaceutical business. The doctors n the pharmacies would love to keep us on meds as without that they wouldn’t make any money. We are all guinea pigs in a quest of greed. 

 

Take care Rabe💚

[brassmonkey]

Hi Rabe-- yea, it's a lot of interrelated information that's really hard to keep track of, but you're catching on very well. For now we should stick to the plan at hand and keep working with the viibryd.

 

Just the scales and capsules will be fine.  I just use a folded piece of paper to fill the capsules.

 

Brassmonkey

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey Thank you! Hope you are doing ok!

[Rosetta]

Just thinking of you, Rabe.  I know this is really hard.  I hope you get some sleep tonight. Love, R

[Rabe]

Grateful for being able to get out yesterday and for feeling some better...today has been an inside day, so so anxious, head so hot, chest hot, depressed, crying, tired, no appetite...feel like a very rapid yo yo and/or rollercoaster.  Love to all💜 

[wantrelief]

Ugh - so sorry you are feeling so miserable today, Rabe.  I am really glad you were able to get out yesterday and am hopeful you'll feel better tomorrow.  

[FarmGirlWorks]

((((((((((((((( 💚 )))))))))))))))))

[Carmie]

4 hours ago, Rabe said:

Grateful for being able to get out yesterday and for feeling some better...today has been an inside day, so so anxious, head so hot, chest hot, depressed, crying, tired, no appetite...feel like a very rapid yo yo and/or rollercoaster.  Love to all💜 

 

So sorry you’re having a bad day Rabe, 

 

This definitely is a roller coaster ride, sending you bug hugs🤗🤗🤗

[Rabe]

@wantrelief @FarmGirlWorks @Carmie I just wanted to say thank you for your kindness and support!💜

[Rabe]

Been another rough day though I did get some groceries...grateful for that.  Finding it hard to do any walking ... just so short of breath and my heart goes off and I find myself force breathing just to feel as if I am getting enough air.  😳 This is fun!!!

Only other times I had this was occasionally over the years when I was on the CLonazeam...it would just be there.  Dont know why.  Gets a tad scary at times but grateful day is over.

Started tart cherry juice for inflammation mainly but am thinking it doesnt sit right with me.  Seems odd...has anyone else had any of these things?  I know it has melatonin in it among many other good things...IDK...

Take care all!!!💜

[Rosetta]

Thinking of you,. Hugs!

[Rabe]

Did get a short walk in today...grateful.  Struggling so tonight.  Feeling so ill...head on fire, nauseated, chest on fire, ears ringing so loudly, weak, heart off, just rough day.  Thinking of everyone!💜

[wantrelief]

I am happy you got a short walk in today, Rabe, but sorry to hear you've been feeling so unwell. You sure are strong, Rabe, getting through these rough days.  I am thinking about you - WR.

[Rosetta]

HI, Rabe.  I sent a PM.  Didn't say much, but just in case you don't get a notification.  Hope you are feeling better soon.