Rabe: how to taper and adjust Viibryd while on Clonazepam

[Rabe]

@Carmie Thanks Carmie.  Thats my plan.  Need to get some of the tablets and start this all...a trial run first and then get things going.  Hope you have a good day !  It is something that just a switch can cause such problems. It does help explain things though....after rapid taper was on liquid and then pills and then he wants a stable dose so changed to compounded and then changed to different compounded and then tapered and had the Amiloride and dropped that and tapered again and new capsules....and never did I think it was the medication.  So long as name was the same it never occurred to me that different forms would make a difference.  Talk about learning the hard way.   Snowed here last night...hmmm. 💜

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey  

"Mgai, milligrams active ingredient, being the strength of the dose starting with the full strength listed on the bottle and reduced by the percentage of the reduction each week, i.e.33.2mgai.  While mgpw, milligrams pill weight, being the weight of the dose that is measured on the scales, starting with the weight of a whole tablet and decreased by the percentage of the reduction each week, i.e.265mgpw."

So the above is not something I need to be concerned about?  Dont really understand it...but remembered it and finally found it in my notes from you...

[Carmie]

3 hours ago, Rabe said:

@Carmie Thanks Carmie.  Thats my plan.  Need to get some of the tablets and start this all...a trial run first and then get things going.  Hope you have a good day !  It is something that just a switch can cause such problems. It does help explain things though....after rapid taper was on liquid and then pills and then he wants a stable dose so changed to compounded and then changed to different compounded and then tapered and had the Amiloride and dropped that and tapered again and new capsules....and never did I think it was the medication.  So long as name was the same it never occurred to me that different forms would make a difference.  Talk about learning the hard way.   Snowed here last night...hmmm. 💜

 

Hi Rabe, 

 

Yes, all those changes you’ve made back n forth have continued to destabilise you. You’ve done soooo many changes that your poor brain is all over the place. You might find eventually once you’ve gone back to your original tablets you will stabilise a bit better. No more going back n forth all the time is the best way to go.

 

See the changeover, no matter how long it takes to stabilise as a really good thing in the long run. You will eventually stabilise n then it might be a bit more smooth sailing for you. 

 

Rosetta has a point which I thought about too. You are deciding whether to change the two capsules over at the same time or not. I guess there are two factors to consider, one is that making too many changes at the same time can destabilise you, not a good idea. But at the same time if your compounding capsules are off by 10% and you might be getting a different dose every day too that’s not good either. 

 

So many decisions to be made n so many factors involved. Brassmonkey will probably have some good input on this.

 

Take care💚

 

 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Yes, you need to cross taper each of the medications by itself and then hold for a while for things to stabilize.

[Rabe]

@brassmonkeyThank you .... will do that then.  Whichever I cross taper mg active or pill weight are same?  Just want to be sure if weigh part of Viibryd for .9mg dose is that whatl should read on the scale...   .9?   And then .2 and .7 for the Clonazepam?  Its the smart weigh.  Thank you.   

[Rabe]

Well the pharmacist never got back to me today and yesterday when I talked to him again about needing the Viibryd because I sent capsules back and have only few left he wasnt sure they could get them here by Saturday.  Soooo, will go through the capsules and then move on.  Will be interested none the less to hear what he has to say.  Evan though he says their margins of error is 10% the variances in the capsules from low to high on my scale put it over 15% and over 20% for the Viibryd.  But he implied my sale was inaccurate.  THANK GOD FOR ALL F  HERE!!  Cant tell you how much it means to have honesty and support!!!  Blessings and love!💜

[brassmonkey]

No, the dose weight is not the same as the weight of the active ingredient on the scale. We talked about that before.

 

We are getting so many different things going here it's becoming impossible to keep it all straight.

 

Viibryd 9mg 1130am, Clonaz .2mg 530PM & .7mg 1130PM,  Is this what you are currently taking, using the compounded capsules that have very different weights?

You want to cross taper to different pills, right?

Where are you getting those pills and can you keep getting them there?

Are they tablets or capsules?

What is the stated strength from the bottle?

What is the average weight of 10 of each type of pill?

[Kristine]

Hey dear Rabe, just popping by to give you a virtual (((hug))) and let you know I’m thinking of you. Much Love K 💖 xox

[Carmie]

Hi Rabe, 

 

Just thought I’d say hi so Hi😀,

 

How are you doing? I think it might be a really good idea to get yourself a nice little notebook n write all the important things about your tapering in it and Brassmonkey’s suggestions, as well the articles you find  on here so you’ve got them all in one place. 

 

It helps when you’re feeling really confused with the brain fog. Sometimes I can’t think to save my life. I’ve started a notebook myself on things I find beneficial. It doesn’t have to be just articles from SA. You can write anything in there that you personally think helps you, so when you’re feeling low you have positive things to look at.

 

Sending sunshine your way☀️☀️☀️

[Rosetta]

Hugs, Rabe.  Always thinking of you.  I hope you have a good day today.

[Rabe]

@Carmie I have started to do that Carmie...but missed few things before started it.😞 I feel bad because I know the moderators are so busy.  I started a brass monkey taper folder on my computer.  I remember some things he said but cant find them now...but will keep adding to my folder.

Had horrible time last night...blood sugar spiked and then I crashed after that...so nervous and sick and tired and weak.  I dont even know why I checked it ..guess cause its been little high along way but nothing like this.  Still feeling awful today...so going to say bye.  Take care.💜

[Rabe]

@Carmie  

"The designation mgai (milligrams active ingredient) is the weight of the actual medication in a dose.  It is commonly referred to as the "strength" of the dose. So if you are taking a 10mg pill you would be getting 10mgai of the medication.  If you have the pharmacist make up 9.75mg capsules then you would be getting 9.75mgai of medication.  If you are cutting your pills and weighing them yourself it's a bit different because you have to weigh out the mgpw (milligrams pill weight) that corresponds to the proper mgai.  But if you are using a dose of 9.75 you are still getting 9.75mgai, but the mgpw would be a lot higher because of the fillers used to make the pill big enough to handle. The same thing applies to using a liquid, eight commercial or homemade.

 

Clear as mud, yes?"

 

I had found this but still wasnt clear....going to lie down and get information for brass monkey when feel better today...so sick today.

 

[Rabe]

No, the dose weight is not the same as the weight of the active ingredient on the scale. We talked about that before.

 

We are getting so many different things going here it's becoming impossible to keep it all straight.

 

Im so sorry...I have started a folder...found this in one I started long ago before the one  have now.  I know you all are so busy and I am getting better organized for this.

"The designation mgai (milligrams active ingredient) is the weight of the actual medication in a dose.  It is commonly referred to as the "strength" of the dose. So if you are taking a 10mg pill you would be getting 10mgai of the medication.  If you have the pharmacist make up 9.75mg capsules then you would be getting 9.75mgai of medication.  If you are cutting your pills and weighing them yourself it's a bit different because you have to weigh out the mgpw (milligrams pill weight) that corresponds to the proper mgai.  But if you are using a dose of 9.75 you are still getting 9.75mgai, but the mgpw would be a lot higher because of the fillers used to make the pill big enough to handle. The same thing applies to using a liquid, eight commercial or homemade."

But I can see that you need more information in order to answer.

 

Viibryd 9mg 1130am, Clonaz .2mg 530PM & .7mg 1130PM,  Is this what you are currently taking, using the compounded capsules that have very different weights?    yes

You want to cross taper to different pills, right?  yes

Where are you getting those pills and can you keep getting them there?   Viibryd are samples from the doctor...10mg pink  coated tablets 

Are they tablets or capsules? I had bee getting blue 1mg Sandoz Clonazepam tablets from CVS but called and they can no longer get them so will have to do some more searching as have allergies to some dyes and these have been used in the compounded capsule.  If cannot get pills may have to do compound.

What is the stated strength from the bottle?  On the Sandoz bottle I have now with 14 tablets left the strength is 1mg and the Viibryd samples are 10mg

What is the average weight of 10 of each type of pill?  I only have 21 of the Viibryd and 14 of Clonazepam: 

weight of 7 Viibryd was .715 lid on scale up and .705 lid on scale down and .709 up and .695 down, (didnt know which is best). Average is .712 and .7.

weight of 7 Clonazepam was 1.188 up and 1.176 down and 1.191 up and 1.180 down.  Average is 1.7835 and 1.766.

I will continue to call about getting the blue Sandoz pills.  Thank you! 

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey

better organized but forgot to make this to you 🙄

No, the dose weight is not the same as the weight of the active ingredient on the scale. We talked about that before.

 

We are getting so many different things going here it's becoming impossible to keep it all straight.

 

Im so sorry...I have started a folder...found this in one I started long ago before the one  have now.  I know you all are so busy and I am getting better organized for this.

"The designation mgai (milligrams active ingredient) is the weight of the actual medication in a dose.  It is commonly referred to as the "strength" of the dose. So if you are taking a 10mg pill you would be getting 10mgai of the medication.  If you have the pharmacist make up 9.75mg capsules then you would be getting 9.75mgai of medication.  If you are cutting your pills and weighing them yourself it's a bit different because you have to weigh out the mgpw (milligrams pill weight) that corresponds to the proper mgai.  But if you are using a dose of 9.75 you are still getting 9.75mgai, but the mgpw would be a lot higher because of the fillers used to make the pill big enough to handle. The same thing applies to using a liquid, eight commercial or homemade."

But I can see that you need more information in order to answer.

 

Viibryd 9mg 1130am, Clonaz .2mg 530PM & .7mg 1130PM,  Is this what you are currently taking, using the compounded capsules that have very different weights?    yes

You want to cross taper to different pills, right?  yes

Where are you getting those pills and can you keep getting them there?   Viibryd are samples from the doctor...10mg pink  coated tablets 

Are they tablets or capsules? I had bee getting blue 1mg Sandoz Clonazepam tablets from CVS but called and they can no longer get them so will have to do some more searching as have allergies to some dyes and these have been used in the compounded capsule.  If cannot get pills may have to do compound.

What is the stated strength from the bottle?  On the Sandoz bottle I have now with 14 tablets left the strength is 1mg and the Viibryd samples are 10mg

What is the average weight of 10 of each type of pill?  I only have 21 of the Viibryd and 14 of Clonazepam: 

weight of 7 Viibryd was .715 lid on scale up and .705 lid on scale down and .709 up and .695 down, (didnt know which is best). Average is .712 and .7.

weight of 7 Clonazepam was 1.188 up and 1.176 down and 1.191 up and 1.180 down.  Average is 1.7835 and 1.766.

I will continue to call about getting the blue Sandoz pills.  Thank you! 

•  

[brassmonkey]

Good, that helps a lot.  This applies to these pills only, if you get different pills then we will have to recalculate things.  You don't need to understand the numbers, but you do need to write them down in your notebook.

 

Viibryd;  average pill weight 101mgpw, stated strength 10mgai,  AIC 0.1mgai/1mgpw.  Current dose 90mgpw (reading on the scale 0.090)

 

Clonazepam: average pill weight 254mgpw, stated strength 1mgai,  AIC 0.04mgai/1mgpw.  Current .2mgai dose is 5mgpw (reading on scale is 0.005)

                                                                                                                                                                   Current  .7mgai dose is 17.5mgpw ( reading on scale is 0.0175 rounded to 0.018)

 

So the doses you need to make up each day are:

 

Viibryd:  90mgpw (reading on the scale is 0.090)

Clonazepam small dose: 5mgpw ( reading on scale is 0.005)

Clonazepam large dose: 17.5mgpw (reading on scale is 0.018)

 

These doses are after you've completed the cross taper, which we still need to figure out.  I hate to dump you in the middle of this, but I have to catch a plane in a couple of hours and will be out of touch for several days.  I'll try and get one of the other mods to help figure out the cross taper.

[Rabe]

@brassmonkey Thank you very very much.  You are not dumping...things just didnt move along as had planned with the capsules etc.  I apologize again.  I will still have to find a place that has these Clonazepam...if they still are around.  

Have wonderful trip.  Hope your shoulder does well!!

Copied and pasted into my computer file...👍

[Rabe]

Hi all,

Had some days when I was able to get out and run errands, did some shopping, got to 'y' for weights and went for walks.  Yesterday face timed with daughter/grand daughter...fun.  Shortly after..was eating...cant remember if had taken CLonazepam but was round 530...may have.  In less than second felt so so dizzy.  Finished eating.  Got worse...weak,short of breath.  Finally checked my blood sugar...think cause first time went to ER my AC was high first.  Kept feeling worse.....it got up to 265!!  I was feeling so awful and looked just as awful.  Finally came down to 108.  

I ate again later but continued to feel tired, dizzy, short of breath, headache, thirsty...slept...woke up feeling just as awful.  As day went on felt some better, gratefully.   

Messaged kidney doctor as wondered if glucose is related to electrolytes...think yes...but got no response which is generally the case.  Try to talk to doctors bout things but all I hear is its your anxiety.  I was not anxious!  Think there is connection but no doctors who think outside the box!  SO frustrating.  Worked with dementia patients for years. Had no choice but to constantly think outside the box, try different things with each different patient because no 2 were the same and they sure could not tell you what was going on and what worked one day or one -part of day maybe didnt work next time. 

Think hardest part is never knowing when will feel ok and when will not.  Used to be able to...but now cant....so I want to not go anywhere or be a part of anything because of how fast things can turn and it is upsetting to my family or those I am with and therefore to me. Think will be alone on the holidays which is hard to think about.

Also had that sudden change around 330...which think is the Viibryd...but it was shorter than normal maybe cause took lower capsule dose today cause thats had left.  Pharmacy is going to get back to me about the capsule problems tomorrow and actually delivered new ones today!  Whoa!

Do wonder about the Cloazepam....dont seem to do well with it and seems to be getting more so as time goes on.  Perhaps it would be good to get rid of the .2 dose...but IDK.  Could ne Viibryd or fact am farther away from night before Clonazepam dose that things get worse in later afternoon.

Cancelled therapist today cause felt so awful...will see about doctor Thursday.  Would SO wish to see my girls this week...been awhile.  

Am looking at a house at home....not sure if this is the time to take on that change or not but feel that need to get back to my doctors, my dentist, my church, my friends.  never expected to be here so long and values in a big city are so different seems...

Hoping to get some sleep and wake up feeling better tomorrow....

Wondering if I was just doing too much for too many days and my system just finally said uhhhh no.  Doesnt seem like much compared to what I used to do but is a lot guess.  

Grateful to feel better ... that it didnt go on and on.  Was scary...sometimes wonder if will get through this physically. Day at time!

Love and hugs to all of you!!!  Keep you in my prayers and heart every day!!!    💜 

[manymoretodays]

23 hours ago, Rabe said:

We are getting so many different things going here it's becoming impossible to keep it all straight.

 

23 hours ago, Rabe said:

I will continue to call about getting the blue Sandoz pills.  Thank you! 

 

Hey Rabe,

The blue Sandoz clonazepam tablets.  How's that coming....... on you being able to get a supply to continue tapering with?

You are working with these tablets now? 

 

Then the Vibryd......are you good with getting samples free continued into 2019?  You may want to check on this as well. 

It's unfortunate......yet, I did not plan for the next year sometimes when becoming dependent on free samples of medication from my prescriber.  And then suddenly I'd get walloped with outrageous prices at the pharmacy with no choice, except to pay.  So......moral of that story........this too, needs attention now.

 

Could you just clarify for me on when you had your clonazepam compounded and how that went for you?  Also were they using the blue Sandoz tablets when the compounding pharmacy compounded for you?

 

Keep that notebook going too!

Meantime, I'm going to catch up here on your thread a bit.

And I'm sure you've seen the daily drug and symptom logs that we ask members to do.  Would you do a couple of days please and then post here.

Note the day you are posting for. 

Time on the left. Drug name and dosage.  Symptoms.  Supplements, sleep, meals.

Here's the link to what we like to see:  Drug and symptom notes

This ^ is going to be really helpful to see if adverse reactions occur or if adjustments are working.

Keep a notebook going with the D and S notes as well as your folder mentioned above, with information on the math, and the terms we use.  That's great.

 

This way......we'll get it all fairly simplified, and organized, and when/if cog fog sets in I don't think that you'll tend to panic as much.

And Rabe, I'm working all the time on organization that works for me, with just life stuff.  Timeliness especially.......and oh, other things......household, work balance, etc.

So......happy to help.  As it does help me too.  It's not all altruistic all the time.

 

Okie doke.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

[Rabe]

Hi mmt....the sandox blue are what the compounding pharmacist uses in the capsules but have called around and am not able to get the Sandoz 1mg tablets...CVS told me they are no longer being made. 🙁They have an Accord blue....Have had problems with different generics in past.

 

Believe the doctor will continue the samples...he has been doing so for 2 years now so I think we are good there...I will double check though.

 

Just talked to compounding pharmacy, they cant get the sandoz either, neither is walgreens or CVS and she is the one who told me they are no longer being made.  Compounder does use Sandoz 1mg blue powder to process...hope that doesnt change!  Odd that they make the powder but not the tablets. Maybe will have to use the compounded capsules for the Clonazepam throughout.  Even if could find place that has tablets now I suspect they will run out and I would have to change brands.  Any thoughts here?

 

I looked back and started the compounded CL capsules in March and in reading journal it didnt go well...but at time had no clue could be the change to capsules. In April started tapering the Viibryd...perhaps the combination of the two, as starting/changing Viibryd has made me feel like the Clonazepam is lowered as well, was what really made the Viibryd taper worse?  Didnt know that at time either.  

 

In July when switched from .1MG Cl capsules to .2 and .7 (instead of 2 and 7 of the .1's) that didnt go well either and I have continued to have problems with them.  I just go 30 new Viibryd capsules as sent the ? ones back to the pharmacy...but he called today and says they are all okay...all within 'specs'.  I asked what those are and he said 10% though they try to get that to 6% and are proud of it as FDA standards are 10%.  Interestingly the new Viibryd capsules are in a much better range than the last ones and seem to be filled better so thats good I guess but doesnt guarantee anything either I suspect.

 

I will start to keep track of symptoms....such bad day Sunday with high blood sugar which I have no clue why?  But will do that and post some soon.

Did I get everything mmt?  Mush brain! 🙄 

 

Thank you SO SO much!! Take care!  💜

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays Im sorry I forgot to flag the above!!!  

 

Can you tell me if tapering can affect your blood sugar.  Tried finding it here and online.  Did read that Viibryd can affect?  But only one place had that.  Wondering if anyone knows if these drugs can affect that?  Thanks again!

[manymoretodays]

It's okay on the flagging.  No worries.  I'll be checking, following, Rabe.

I did see a report on blood sugar increase in Viibryd users.  Out of 6,136 people who reported side effects, 44 people, or 0.72 % had blood glucose increase.  There were some other factors mentioned too......like if they were on Metformin......a medication sometimes used in people with type 2 diabetes(the late onset type), and other medications.

Here's the link:  e-health and me, Will you have Blood glucose increase....

 

And it does seem that when tapering, for some if not all, it's really important to get enough protein, and then stick with some complex carbs, so that.......with dietary measures you can keep a steady blood sugar and energy supply.  It seems that, if anything, while tapering........often more frequent eating helps too.  The smaller feeds throughout the day.

I don't know of anyone else taking blood sugar measurements, so can't be sure if anyone has gone hypoglycemic while tapering, the opposite of what you found, with your blood sugar.   Yours went up.

If you have a type of diabetes Rabe, you will need to take extra good care in managing that now and onward. 

 

Also, I found that you should take Viibryd with food.  Hopefully, you have been doing that?

 

I think you got most of my preliminary questions answered.  I'll ask again, if I need to.

All for now.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited November 14, 2018 by manymoretodays

[neroli]

Hello Rabe

 

Thank you for your message on my thread.  Just popping over to your side to see how things are going - I do hope you are getting the meds sorted - it is so draining and confusing.  Good that you've got some help from the mods. - they are great aren't they?

 

Friday night here for me - resting in bed with my legs - did get to the office but left early at 3.30.  

 

Hoping you have good sleep and tomorrow is a reasonable day.

 

Neroli 💜

[manymoretodays]

Hi Rabe,

So, you are set with the Viibryd capsules for now and for quite some time to come?

Or are we going to proceed to try and get you crossed over to tablets with the Viibryd?

 

Just checking.  I know that there was some concern that you might have limited capsules to work with.

So let me know on this, please.

Thank you.

 

L, P, H, and G, and all the good things.....gratitude,

mmt

[Rabe]

@neroli Oh thank you Neroli.  Working on the meds...there is just much to deal with it seems in all ways...with all of us.  

The mods are truly amazing...kind and patient and so so knowledgeable.  How does one express gratitude for such devotion?

Hoping your legs feel better Neroli.  Mine have been burning a lot today...hoping they settle down.  Love and hugs to you from across the pond!!!💜

Once again wrote this yesterday and forgot to send...my mind!!!  

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays  Hi...I do not have diabetes that I know of.  Have checked sugar along way cause it does fluctuate.  Had tests when quite young and was told had possibility of becoming diabetic.  I also know there can be links between electrolyte shifts, insulin, and glucose levels.  The doctor is having me see an endocrinologist..available in March.  

 

I currently have 30 viibryd capsules.  I can use them or tablets.  With the 9mg I either do capsule, tablet or liquid.  Not sure which is 'best'...but have the scale and capsules and all...  

 

I think the doctor wanted to get rid of the 530 Clonazepam dose because that has caused some issues along the way, but everything does when tapering.  The kidney issues did become very apparent after dose was doubled and I started tapering....IDK.  Have had some rough days.  So many balls in the air seems. Dont know what to eat or drink anymore...but will have to figure it out.  I do eat through out day when can and try to keep carbs low but am drinking milk and coconut water for the potassium and am finding they both have lots of carbs and may be contributing...

 

I think getting to bed earlier might help but night is only time of day feel 'normal'... and AM before meds and food start.  Ill post some symptom journals.

Thanks so much for your help!!!!  Hope things are going well for you!!!💜

 

 

 

 

[neroli]

Hello Rabe

 

My goodness, you are so strong dealing with all the meds. and the eating issue, too.  And burning legs.  My neighbour has a condition which makes her burn, I can't remember the name of it but she got it from working in a weed-killer-making factory - toxic chemicals.  She has managed it for 30-odd years and has made a life for herself which is more limited than we would all want (can't go to doctor surgeries that are too hot, has to time going out so it's not hot, can't go to hairdresser etc), then a few weeks ago she got a bad flu-type bug that has been going round and the burning has spread up her legs and is keeping her awake, making her ankles swell and the swish of her cat's tail on her legs is painful.  She's been put on gabapentin.   Along with all the other meds.  Life throws the bucket at you sometimes, eh?

 

I'm so lucky to have her next door, we have a phone relationship, occasionally talking over the back fence, and when my legs are bad she's happy to take me shopping - just having someone there who will listen to my woes is a great help and I can do the same for her.

 

I don't have burning legs, like you, but as you know they ache and feel like lead, they're at about 6-7 right now as I sit in bed (another neighbour's grandkids are still out playing!).  I hope yours have cooled down.

 

I am beginning to start treating my condition as chronic and with no way of knowing if it will resolve.  Somehow, I feel I need to adjust my relationship to it - don't know how and it won't happen overnight - but somehow trying to soften into it, rather than fighting it.  Well, that's what most people say in the books I've been reading and you tube videos I've been watching about living with chronic pain and illness.  It's another avenue to try - meditation and mindfulness and all that -accepting.  Sheesh.

 

Been knitting today and got some more wool and patterns for the premature baby xmas knitting project.  Found out a woman at work will be having a baby next March, so I want to knit something for her too.

 

Keep on keeping on, dear Rabe, you are managing...even if it feels so overwhelming.  Small steps.

 

Warm wishes flying over the pacific from the west....💜

[manymoretodays]

11 hours ago, Rabe said:

@manymoretodays  Hi...I do not have diabetes that I know of.  Have checked sugar along way cause it does fluctuate.  Had tests when quite young and was told had possibility of becoming diabetic.  I also know there can be links between electrolyte shifts, insulin, and glucose levels.  The doctor is having me see an endocrinologist..available in March.  

 

I currently have 30 viibryd capsules.  I can use them or tablets.  With the 9mg I either do capsule, tablet or liquid.  Not sure which is 'best'...but have the scale and capsules and all...  

 

I think the doctor wanted to get rid of the 530 Clonazepam dose because that has caused some issues along the way, but everything does when tapering.  The kidney issues did become very apparent after dose was doubled and I started tapering....IDK.  Have had some rough days.  So many balls in the air seems. Dont know what to eat or drink anymore...but will have to figure it out.  I do eat through out day when can and try to keep carbs low but am drinking milk and coconut water for the potassium and am finding they both have lots of carbs and may be contributing...

 

I think getting to bed earlier might help but night is only time of day feel 'normal'... and AM before meds and food start.  Ill post some symptom journals.

Thanks so much for your help!!!!  Hope things are going well for you!!!💜

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, and good.....no diabetes.

And okay......we should get you on a consistent formula of Viibryd?  So......as you are tolerating the capsules fairly........and if you can keep getting them ad infinitum(for as long as possible) we don't have to do anything there.  If you cannot keep getting capsules going forward........then we should carefully cross you over to another form.  You would stay at the 9 mg dose, while doing so.

And it might be a great idea to consider getting to taking half of your dose in capsule form and then half of your dose in liquid.  As when/if you taper down......liquid is always easier to measure.....in my opinion........then doing the weighing.  Most especially with the lower dosages.

So.....let me know how you would like to proceed and then I can go over the basics of the crossover with you.......so it's all simplified.

 

I used to......and still do on occasion, drink Pedialyte or it's generic equivalent.  It's a really mild electrolye solution that is often used for babies and small children when they have vomiting and diarrhea illnesses and subsequent imbalance in their electrolytes.  Lexapro can do something similar to what Viibryd does sometimes.  That's good if you can tolerate coconut water.....I could not.  I did switch to coconut milk and use that all the time.......it does not have quite the same stuff in it as the water though.  I finally got off soy milk, as I thought it might be effecting my estrogen balance.

 

Kidney issues?  Do tell.

 

And keep trying to pull a couple days of notes together and then post here.  The daily drug and symptom notes.

Go simple with it.  Note the date at the top.

Time on the left, then drug(by name), dosage, and symptoms, as they occur throughout the day.  And sleep too, Rabe.  Add in your sleep and if any night awakenings, etc.

That helps us see the patterns of your symptoms before and after you take any one of your medications.......and gives a good picture as to what might need adjustment.

Include any other drugs/medications taken and supplements, as well as meals, feedings. 

 

So.....really just 2 things to focus on.  My questions around the Viibryd.......going forward......so we can plan out the crossover.

And then the drug and symptom notes/logs.  Then post here.

 

S'okay?

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by manymoretodays
sleep in logs/notes added

[Rabe]

57 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

It's a really mild electrolye solution that is often used for babies and small children when they have vomiting and diarrhea illnesses and subsequent imbalance in their electrolytes.  Lexapro can do something similar to what Viibryd does sometimes.  That's good if you can tolerate coconut water.....I could not.  I did switch to coconut milk and use that all the time.......it does not have quite the same stuff in it as the water though.  I

 

I do have the pedialyte...thing is it has more sodium which also can be an issue...I use no extra salt, no butter with salt etc.  Lately I am so do dry I feel I need more salt but that throws the potassium off.  Yes...its a challenge isn't it?  especially when tapering which gets the receptors that regulate all the ion all mixed up!!

What do Lexapro and Viibryd do?

Why could you not tolerate coconut water?  I am having problems with it...too many carbs I think which increases the blood sugar because I now drink way more milk than I used to to get more electrolytes as well...but it has carbs too.  🙄

Ok...so just need to know which will be tapering first and go from there?   Thanks!!

 

[Rabe]

@neroli Oh Neroli... YOU are so strong as well...dealing with so much!  How nice to have someone next door who can in some way identify with what you deal with so often....and to be able to talk about it and accepted in the process.  What a lovely gift!

Your thoughts on dealing with this as chronic is something that resonates with me.  It has been over 3 years already and things are certainly not better...but I must say it is hard to accept.  Im better at it some days than others.  Hard around the holidays and so hard with grandchildren Ive waited so long for...and with my children as well.  They have such a hard time with it and that makes me very sad and makes me stay away.

You are so special, Neroli, and I am so grateful to have you here making this journey more palatable.  Take care!  Hope those legs get better.  Mine were some better today but are revving up now.  At least go a break for some of day...Ill take that!  Hugs to you!! 💜

[Rabe]

7 hours ago, Rabe said:

I do have the pedialyte...thing is it has more sodium which also can be an issue...I use no extra salt, no butter with salt etc.  Lately I am so do dry I feel I need more salt but that throws the potassium off.  Yes...its a challenge isn't it?  especially when tapering which gets the receptors that regulate all the ion all mixed up!!

What do Lexapro and Viibryd do?

Why could you not tolerate coconut water?  I am having problems with it...too many carbs I think which increases the blood sugar because I now drink way more milk than I used to to get more electrolytes as well...but it has carbs too.  🙄

Ok...so just need to know which will be tapering first and go from there?   Thanks!!

 

 

Sorry...forgot to put your name on again.  Ugh!  

So we are not going to go with tablets on both meds?  I am having a problem finding the blue Sandoz that I have had for the Clonazepam....apparently not made anymore.  The Viibryd tablets are not a problem.  If I get CLonazepam tablets it would have to be a different generic.  The capsules are compounded with the blue 1mg Sandoz that I have used all along.  

[Rosetta]

Rabe, Thinking of you.  I wish I had more to say.  I'm doing ok today, but I can't really give you any advice and that frustrates me.  I would like to say that you should try to see your daughter on Thanksgiving no matter what, but, having been in your situation -- having no idea what shape I would be in from day to day or even hour to hour -- I know that sort of advance decision is likely to cause as much anxiety as it might solve.  Love, R

[Rabe]

@Rosetta Thank you Rosetta.  I did go over Th and Fri...Th was very nice, Friday was very very hard and that is hard on her.  I did ok but its not fun.  

Her husband will be working and Thanksgiving will be at his brothers house.  I love his family but all 7 plus relatives drink ALOT and it just gets to be too much for me even in the best of times...now it would be really unnerving.  She knows I most likely will not be there.  Of course I would like to see her and Evie and it is always hard to be so blatantly absent...Im sure they think I am anything but a mom or grandma but I am accepting that.  I cannot eat the food provided because of my reacting to everything except very basic unaltered foods, no flour, no sugar, watch electrolytes etc....and taking my own food and  to cook when they will be cooking would be hard.  Difficult and sad...last year thought NEXT year will be different. I am realizing/accepting that may never be the case. 

Ive been thinking of you lots today...was just going to check your thread and here you were!  Thank you SO much for taking the time and effort to stop here...I know how that is when struggling.  Means so much to me.  And you are right...if I knew it was just anxiety that would dissipate once there it would be one thing...used to be how it was sort of...now it is always different everyday and every minute of everyday.  Makes it very hard to commit to anything...doctor appts, visiting, haircuts, even a repair man here...cancelled that.  Not fun as you know but I do know that I do my best...and I think my daughter is seeing that a little clearer...maybe...

Love and hugs! 💜

[wantrelief]

Hey Rabe - You really are doing your best!  I wanted you to know I have been thinking about you.  💗

[Rabe]

@wantrelief Oh thank you so much for thinking of me wr!  You are so special!!! 💜

[Sheera]

Rabe—I want you to know I am thinking of you. Just by reading your thread I can tell that your family is so important to you.  Sometimes taking care of ourselves is also taking care of the ones we love. It sounds like that is what you will be doing on Thanksgiving.  You are being so brave. I have referred to this lately because it is all I can do sometimes. Well—darn—the image is too large but it’s the picture of the goldfish swimming around with a shark fin strapped to his body. People above the surface can only see the shark fin. The caption is, “be brave. Even if you’re not, pretend to be.”  I feel the longer we practice that...eventually we will actually feel it, if you know what I mean. Here is a link. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/GetMotivated/comments/4etsl5/be_brave_image/

 

hugs—Sheera

[Rosetta]

I hope you saw on my thread that my great uncle who is 98 survived Valium WD about 10 years ago.  He was hospitalized when the VA decided that he should stop taking it after about 35-40 years of taking "the lowest dose."  You are going to make it, Rabe.  It does not seem that way now, but you will.  I'm sorry that right now when you have a little baby granddaughter you can't do everything you would do otherwise.  You will be ok when she is old enough to remember.