Rabe: how to taper and adjust Viibryd while on Clonazepam

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays no...they were off before the procedure because of the prep.

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays Im sorry MMT...I have had a horrible day.  Was ok til took V at noon at doctors office and it was downhill from there.  I have felt really awful non stop.  I will do my best to answer you completely when I can.  I journal daily but dont know how taper went...seemed ok dropped 1/27 and had prep on 1/12 and procedures on 2/14...so some of this could be the drop I suppose.  I just know I feel very not well.

Not making any changes now.  I could not even remain at doctors today..had to leave juts felt so unwell.  But no changes.  

The capsules are more than not right...they should be replaced but i dont care at this point.  I am getting a refill because they have some Viibryd there and will use what I can and then will look for different compounder.  I have sent pictures and asked three different pharmacist and all said the doses would not be near right with the fill variances they see.  

I have been pacing, anxious, crying, etc since the Viibryd this morning.  I am going to try to eat something and then lie down. Thank you. Take care.

 

[Rosetta]

💙💚💛🌺🌸💐🌼🌷 ((((Rabe)))) 🌺🌸💐🌷💚💙💜

[neroli]

My dear Rabe

 

Oh, you've had a tough day - anxiety is so difficult to handle and I can empathise with you, it's frightening.

 

All I can say is that you are in all our thoughts and, just as you do for me when I am in a very uncomfortable space, reassure you that we wish you better soon, you are such a valued member of this community - you help us all with your encouragement and so very important words of comradeship.  We are all in this with you.

 

I hope your afternoon calms down and you manage to eat and get some rest.  Really.

 

Thinking of you - sending the biggest bunch of best wishes as I can over that old pond.

 

much love

 

xxxx Neroli 💜

[wantrelief]

I am so very sorry you are having such an awful day, Rabe.  One would never know what you are going through with all of the sweet messages you send to me and others.  Oh how I hope this all calms down for you very soon.  I know it has been really rough lately.....you are such a trooper.  Sending lots of hugs your way.  💗WR

[Carmie]

I’m sorry you’re struggling so much  Rabe, 

 

Sending you lots of hugs🤗

[Rabe]

Yesterday was a tad better...was grateful.  

Today about 2 hours after Viibryd I felt so anxious and crampy and not well again until about 5.  Made for a very long hard day.  It was like Tuesday.  Yesterday I took one of the old Viibryd that appears to be lower dose....today I took one of new capsules that are full.  I know how I feel is in some ways connected to the Viibryd.  I did get some groceries so am grateful for that.  Feeling  I need to keep getting down on the Viibryd.  I thought back to treatment when started Viibryd and was anxious each day about 1 to 2 hours later in a class we had.  And had the reaction to it which was the high BP and shaking.  I think as the Clonazepam has gone down and continues to get out my system the Viibryd issues are more pronounced.  I have often driven to and gone places before the Viibryd in AM.and done ok.  Then later after V was not.  I thought it was the food I ate or something else for long time.  This was before the recent taper and procedure. Same thing happened in 2 different doctors offices this week...so anxious suddenly and has same time frame give or take.  As I look back in journal I see the connection more clearly now....find it scary.  I dont know whether to keep holding or just continue to lower this med since have been taking the smaller doses.  It all is overwhelming.  Long day and tiring....but grateful to have gotten through it so far.  

Thinking of everyone.  Take care! 💜

[neroli]

Dear Rabe

 

This is so good to hear:

 

23 hours ago, Rabe said:

Yesterday was a tad better...was grateful.

 

Just these little moments of respite make things a bit easier to cope with.  Even though the next day can be s struggle again.

 

23 hours ago, Rabe said:

 Long day and tiring....but grateful to have gotten through it so far.  

Thinking of everyone.  Take care! 💜

 

I'm glad you got through it.  Sometimes it's just a matter of hanging in there moment by moment.

 

I'm thinking of you,  xxxx  Neroli 💜

[Rabe]

5 hours ago, neroli said:

'm glad you got through it.  Sometimes it's just a matter of hanging in there moment by moment.

This is  it lately...gets tiring and how rapidly things can come crashing over is stunning.  Thinking about you Neroli everyday...everyone here.  My heart aches sometimes but the strength is incredible!  Love and hugs to you my friend!! Thank you for stopping!💜

[Rabe]

@neroli im so sorry neroli...i forgot to tag the above. 

[RusTW]

Hi Rabe I wanted to wish you a good day today. I see you're going through the bad anxiety. Sorry about that.

[manymoretodays]

On 3/14/2019 at 6:56 PM, Rabe said:

 I need to keep getting down on the Viibryd

 

Yay and yah, I agree Rabe.  I don't know if you could swing it, with all the other variables presently involved in your prescriptions......but maybe when you are satisfied with the compounding........then.........you could go with 2 weeks of the 8.75 mg and then down to 8.5 mg for the second 2 weeks.........when you get your next monthly fill of V confounded capsules? 

And then plan on holding at that for 6 whole weeks.  That's  one form of micro tapering pretty much.  Slightly above 2.5 % drops from the previous dosages.  Over long periods.  And seeing how you do with them.

 

You've got a bit of an odd clonazepam split too.  That's due to spacing it out from your Viibryd, to hopefully minimize any of the CYP conflicts.  At some later point, though......when you've/we've got the V reduced nicely........perhaps that can be adjusted too.  I'm just thinking you might be experiencing some of the interdose W/D with clonazepam, on top of the adverse effects of Viibryd.  A nice dual discomfort for your fragile nervous system.  Ugh. 

 

Meantime.........you may be shifting formulations with your clonazepam.

 

I don't know how you keep it all straight.  I'd suggest a huge whiteboard, with a calendar, where you note when refills are needed, as well as all your medical appointments, as well as colorful depictions of your days and logs.  It would be a creative endeavor, for sure.  Maybe even different colors for different concerns, etc.  It would be also like some kind of NYtimes crossword puzzle.

 

Okie doke.  Good....good.  It's good work Rabe!  You are doing a lot of it!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,
(oh p.s.  dilution of Viibryd, should you want to keep looking/ thinking about liquifying at some point can be found here:  Tips for tapering off Viibryd.  " Vilazodone has relatively high aqueous solubility (water: 32 mg/100 mL). "   I saw your question to brassmonkey regarding this.  So you could consider doing 10 mg of Viibryd in 30 mL of water.  But don't forget some form of crossover if you do that.  We really need a crossover topic I think.  Maybe I'll work on that in my off site time.) Lol......I'd need to do most of that online though!!!  Lol at myself.  I'm gonna get offline.......I'm gonna get offline........I need to get offline......

💃😻

Have a sunny day.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by manymoretodays

[neroli]

Hello dear Rabe

 

Thank you for your lovely message on my thread.  Know that I am walking with you, too, as you traverse the rocky land of side effects and WD. You are so consistently caring and giving even though you are tormented by horrible symptoms - there isn't a big enough word for the gratitude I have for that.

 

I will ask the doc. if there's anything else she thinks I should be tested for.  Lyme is from tic bites, isn't it?  I haven't had any tic bites.

 

Yes, I am just across that pond - and I think all of us here are walking side by side in spirit.  I can only hope I have the strength you have.

 

love to you Neroli xxx 💜

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays Hi MMT...gosh thank you for stopping.  What has happened is that I was down to the not well filled capsules before got the V refill and now they are full and I find it really makes me so anxious!  Yikes!  It did from the beginning but I was taking C in AM as well and think that calmed things.

e

You are right on the C...I know I am getting interpose WD from that and it is getting worse with time and the V taper doesnt help.  It would be nice to get things 'in order' somehow.  I just feel ok in AM, eat and take V and 21/2 hours or so and I am so anxious.  Then better bout 5 then take C and worse again and o it goes.  Its like everything feels pretty rotten right now.  I wake up in the mornings and just cry because I don't want to take the meds.  I am hoping it is just because my system is so off right now and not liking anything.

 

Yes, the clonazepam will be going to just the stock powder soon...after next round...I suspect I should do a cross over?  

 

Shep suggested a hold because my system is so messed up...and it is....but I don't know what to do with these capsule variances....and each drug affects the other so yes it has been very hard to deal with the WD feelings of both.  Many days of wanting to quit.

 

Thank you too for the Viibryd solubility.  IDK which route to go.  If you have suggestions I would be grateful.  Take care MMT.  Thank you again. 💜

[Rabe]

@neroli Bless you Neroli!  And I wish for the strength you have!!  Love and hugs!💜

[Rabe]

@neroli Yes tic bites...so not something you would have but perhaps a general workup would be a good thing...

[Rosetta]

I wonder if Spring and the time change has all of us feeling worse.  I'm with you in spirit, Rabe.  Just hang in there one day at a time.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Rabe,

Have you weighed the newer full(appearance wise) confounded capsules of Viibryd? 

 

It might be interesting to see if the weight is more uniform.

 

You could just weigh them, the whole capsule.......3 or 4 of them.  Just to see for now.  Nothing more.

 

And then go ahead and just experiment with dissolving one of the Viibryd tablets too.  If you have got one that you could just waste, to experiment with.  Just to see again.  Nothing more.

 

I wonder if one of your compounded capsules of Viibryd might dissolve in water too?  You could try that.......just as an experiment for now.  Again if you have one from an old batch or something.......just to see, not to worry about........then discard.

 

When I used to dissolve my oxcarb., I would add the water to the tablet in a sterile urine cup.  Then I had to wait a bit, and gently swirl the container contents, around a bit too.  It didn't dissolve instantly.  It was an orange coated tablet(large and oval shaped).  Then I'd swirl the container again right before I drew up my dose in millileters. 

It was a lot like Rhiannon describes in the first post here:  How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

How have the last couple of days been for you?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Oh, and a p.s. edit.  I just mentioned the whiteboard/calendar thing as that's what I think I need to do a bit of.  Something like that anyway too.  To get me back on track.  A bit more disciplined with my routine and self care.   With my on the ground stuff and life.   Employing helpers, for me, was just a start.......it did help a lot though......in getting me re-connected a bit to other humans.  Outside of phone calls and online communications.    And then I got back to an AA meeting too.  Oh.....and saw dear Sun/sun!!!!  I'll update on my own space soon enough.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by manymoretodays

[Rabe]

On 3/17/2019 at 1:33 PM, Rosetta said:

I wonder if Spring and the time change has all of us feeling worse.  I'm with you in spirit, Rabe.  Just hang in there one day at a time.

@Rosetta I wondered about this too Rosetta.  But I felt pretty awful before it...but then dealing with the med time change I think makes a difference as does the sleep...IDK.  

Thank you for your support Rosetta!  It has definitely been each day at a time and through out the days....and they are always different so cant really plan which is hard way to live.  But some of today was easier so am grateful!  I will stop by your thread!  Love and hugs to you my friend!!💜

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays I will try to respond...right now is pretty awful...earlier in the day was a bit better gratefully.  The newer capsules unfortunately are not better...but is what it is.  Well...on positive side there are more within an acceptable range than out, so that is a step in right direction. I am looking for different pharmacy after finding a capsule that was larger than the others when getting Clonazepam dose yesterday.

Cant find it now.  Hope I didnt take it!  My ears are ringing so lout I can hardly think!💥

I will try dissolving the tablet and capsule....Im sure the capsule will...if I can find an old viibryd tablet.  Not sure.  Does it matter if water is warm, cold, room temp?  How much water?

Im sorry bout my mind!

The days are up and down during the day and daily.  The times of all the symptoms change it seems...but some are pretty consistent though intensity varies.  Today I didnt seem to get such a spike for the Viibryd but took a new capsule...perhaps different dose...IDK.  But then tonight I am a mess!  Have bees SO SO anxious from after the  afternoon CLonazepam on. Think the CLonazepam wears off faster some days than others.  I also walked a short distance a couple times today and managed to get some food at store.  So those were good.

Thank you MMT.  I hope things are going well with you.  Take care!💜

 

[Rabe]

I had a horrible evening yesterday...from after afternoon CL to 2am or later.  I was so agitated and anxious.  After evening dose I was crying and felt as if I had not taken any of it.  I feel so lost and tired this morning...what is happening to me?

[wantrelief]

Oh Rabe,  I am so very sorry you are feeling so badly.  I was happy to read you have had some better moments but I know those are not enough to outweigh how you are mostly feeling.  I am thinking about you, Rabe, and really hope those better moments increase.  💗WR.

[Rosetta]

I'm thinking about you, too.  I am at a loss on what to say to anyone right now.  It's batten down the hatches and wait for the storm to blow over for me.  It doesn't surprise me that it could be that way for others.  I feel resigned to the entire issue, and maybe that is acceptance?  

 

It's very hard for me to see you suffering this way.  I hope with all the hope I can muster that you are getting better after that GI procedure and this is just a bump in that road for you.  I believe that it is.  Maybe if you believe that it is and you can avoid second fear -- this is just a bump; it means nothing -- you will weather this time with less turmoil.  I'm right there with you, Rabe.  I took Unisom last night -- 1/2 a tablet -- but I still had the anxiety and nausea in the early morning.  So, this morning I feel hung over.  

 

The birds are singing.  Maybe you can hear them, too?  It's Spring soon, and you are going to feel better just down the road a bit.  Hold on to that thought.  None of this is permanent.  It's something others have survived.  We can, too.

 

Have a hot shower.  That gives me relief for a little while.  

 

Love you to bits, we all do, Rosetta

[manymoretodays]

12 hours ago, Rabe said:

I will try dissolving the tablet and capsule....Im sure the capsule will...if I can find an old viibryd tablet.  Not sure.  Does it matter if water is warm, cold, room temp?  How much water?

 

When you've settled a bit Rabe.......when you've settled. 

Do try some of our non-drug coping.  Look at Shep's list- it's in her signature.  Or pick something from S and S care.  I'd elaborate, if I could.......  I hope the temperatures are warming for you there, like they are here.  Next up......I'm going to sit outside and either listen to something on my phone(meditation, speaker meeting) or read and write.  Get some sunshine and outside time Rabe......whenever you can.  Just birds mostly here.......the quail are characters though and I'm noticing some shoots of my bulbs are starting to pop through the soil.

 

Yah, agreed.......time change, onset of Spring........definitely a challenging time for many.

 

Excellent that the weights of some of the new Viibryd confounded capsules were more consistent, in a decent range.

 

We'll get there.  To a crossover.  No rush.  HOLDING is HARD WORK,  often quite important.

 

Try one of each(confounded capsule, tablet) separately in 30 mL of water.  Room temperature is good.  We're just experimenting now, gaining confidence.

 

Hang on tight Rabe. 

We're all rooting for you, and each other,

Love, peace, healing, and growth.

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays I do try the coping...sometimes I am so agitated I cant sit still long enough to do anything.  Last night was something.  But I did walk twice yesterday cause was so sunny and nice and the birds were out....and I did get to the store for some groceries thank goodness, but seems when I do more then the it sets me back...so little sets me back.  Plus I pushed and went to my daughters last Sunday?  Perhaps that was a lot...though was a nice day.  IDK. 

Also the stomach and esophagus are issues...once those can get better I wont react as much because the inflammation and open areas will be better.  I just cant seem to take anything right now.  I asked RusTW about the things he uses.  I can also ask the pharmacy.   

Yesterday I was fried and today I was absolutely so fatigued I could hardly get about.  Crazy for sure.  Tired of it...knwo Im not alone there... It will get better I hope.  Hard not to be able to commit to anything cause things change so rapidly from day to day and through out the day.  I become afraid to commit to anything.

 

So dissolve in just 2T of water?  Thats not much.  I will try this week if I can feel better. I did find a tablet to use and I have an old capsule of the V as well.

Thank you MMT.  Hope your day was ok.  💜

[Rabe]

@Rosetta Thank you so much for your support.  This has really been unbelievable!  Last night was scary to me to feel so awful after the CLonazepam  

Felt exhausted today..could hardly get up to eat or anything.  Di get out to take the recyclables out...that was it.  Makes for long day.  But grateful to not feel tonight...thus far...as I did last night.  

I asked the GI doctor about something else to take today and they messaged back saying there is nothing more they can do...that felt bad.  Referred me to an ENT...Im not going to go.  Tired of doctors.  I feel if my stomach and all can heal I wont react quite as much...maybe.  Wish I could still take the prevacid.

I did get out for a couple short walks in the sun with the birds singing yesterday...then today Im exhausted.  Pushed to see Evie and Nina Sunday...no regrets but that may not have helped either though seemed ok at time...as ok as can be.

Just feel pretty defeated...but it will get better...I keep telling myself that.  Hard thing is not to be able to commit to anything or plan anything as things change day to day and through out days so quickly.  I get fearful of trying cause I dont want to be embarrassed or hurt my family.  

I hope you are getting some sleep Rosetta and that you are feeling more settled.  Thinking about you lots!  Take care my dear friend!  Love you!💜

[Rabe]

@wantrelief Hi WR...wanted to thank you for stopping and for your kind thoughts and support.  I am so so grateful.  Dont know where I would be without everyone here.  It is hard to want to keep going I find.  But when all of you are it brings hope and courage and others strength and encouragement push me on.

I have been thinking about you so and am hoping things have been some better for you?  Love and hugs to you my friend. Bless you for takin the time to come here when I know you are struggling so as well.  

It just was so scary when I felt so awful after the CLonazepam last night.  Blessings!💜

[neroli]

Hello dear Rabe

 

You're having a real rough time of late - I"m so sorry to hear that and I understand how debilitating and exhausting it can be.  I hope you can get some rest at some point, without the agitation.

 

You help me along by being here and being your wonderful generous self.

 

I'm sending you all the best wishes I can over the pacific.

 

lots of love

 

Neroli xx💜

[Carmie]

Dear Rabe, 

 

I’m really sorry you’re struggling so much, sending big hugs your way💚

[wantrelief]

8 hours ago, Rabe said:

Dont know where I would be without everyone here.  It is hard to want to keep going I find.  But when all of you are it brings hope and courage and others strength and encouragement push me on.

I feel the same way, Rabe.  I am glad you were able to see you daughter and granddaughter.  I really wish you would get a break.  You should be proud of the things you have been able to do all whilst feeling so unwell.

 

8 hours ago, Rabe said:

I have been thinking about you so and am hoping things have been some better for you?

Aw, thank you for thinking about me, Rabe.  I think things have been a bit better than last week but it is so hard to know when there is no "normal".   

 

I continue to think about you and hope you get some relief soon.  💗WR

[manymoretodays]

11 hours ago, Rabe said:

@manymoretodays I do try the coping...sometimes I am so agitated I cant sit still long enough to do anything.  Last night was something.  But I did walk twice yesterday cause was so sunny and nice and the birds were out....and I did get to the store for some groceries thank goodness, but seems when I do more then the it sets me back...so little sets me back.  Plus I pushed and went to my daughters last Sunday?  Perhaps that was a lot...though was a nice day.  IDK. 

Also the stomach and esophagus are issues...once those can get better I wont react as much because the inflammation and open areas will be better.  I just cant seem to take anything right now.  I asked RusTW about the things he uses.  I can also ask the pharmacy.   

Yesterday I was fried and today I was absolutely so fatigued I could hardly get about.  Crazy for sure.  Tired of it...knwo Im not alone there... It will get better I hope.  Hard not to be able to commit to anything cause things change so rapidly from day to day and through out the day.  I become afraid to commit to anything.

 

So dissolve in just 2T of water?  Thats not much.  I will try this week if I can feel better. I did find a tablet to use and I have an old capsule of the V as well.

Thank you MMT.  Hope your day was ok.  💜

 

I know sweetie.  It's hard to do non- drug coping when you've got all that internal agitation going.  If you've got a big screen set-up PC, some of the guided videos might be really helpful.......even to just try and listen to while your feeling all the inner distress.  Which you could do with a smart phone device too.

And then there is this:  Easing your way into meditation for a stressed out nervous system

It might help to read on through ^ and then just keep the 4 pointers from the first post in mind, in your head, to focus on.  It'll get easier and better Rabe. 

Good on the walks and outside.  I'm making good progress getting back to my lol.......mini triathlon training too......it may become quadathlon when I add in vigorous gardening......to be determined.    I really want to play with some plants and plantings this year.  Spring goes fast though here.......and then it's into hot times summer.

 

It's good you saw your daughter and managed to do your own stuff yourself too.  I'm onto the every other day, at least.......as far as committing to anything and being even halfway reliable goes now.  Meaning I will only commit fully to one or three things per week.  That way I know I can always have a day before or after to just chill.  At least my home is feeling less like a dark prison........so thankful for that.  Perceptions can and do get way skewed for me if I spend too, too much time alone. 

 

So are the ulcers in both your esophogus and duodenum?  Or what part of the stomach are they in?  I know you had mentioned the esophogeal ones.  Yah.....any non-drug coping would be great.  Have they......your GI people gone the route of treating you for h. pylori infection?  I think that's for the duodenal ulcers.  I briefed through some ulcer information......but sure am not the end all of knowledge there.  And then did they confirm active GER?  Do all the positional things you can, if so.  Back when I had that briefly.....both in pregnancy and then secondary to meds/drugs.........I often just stayed propped on up when sleeping or resting.......that helped a lot in preventing the acidic stuff from traveling and feeling the burning symptoms in my upper GI areas.  Hmmm.....I wonder if you would benefit from alkalinization somehow......I'm not sure that's the right word for it.  Just overall working on a change in your alkali/acid balance.  I know there is stuff here on that.......somewhere..........  And I don't know if it would help reverse the effects of stomach acid and GER.

 

Yes, a tablespoon is 15 mL, I believe.  So......for experimental purposes.......2 tablespoons is good.  If later........you/we decide to crossover and go to liquid.........you would want to get oral syringes to measure accurately with though.

 

You're doing great.  I can hear a good attitude.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

p.s. my white board is out and got some multicolored dry erase markers to work on my own goal setting, priorities, etc.  It should be fun.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by manymoretodays

[Rabe]

@Carmie @neroli @wantrelief Thank you for your kind thoughts and support!  I am so grateful!  I hope you get some sleep Carmie!

Neroli, I so hope your symptoms have eased some for you!!  Wantrelief, I hope your taper continues to be 'tolerable'...knowing that is no way

to describe this!  

Thinking about you all!! Love and hugs!💜

[Rabe]

@manymoretodays Thank you for the meditation...I will try that.  I have one I use but lately I cannot settle to do it.

Esophagus is the issue..the sphincter is and has not worked for long time....GERD for years and years.  Was good until started tapering at home and reacted to my Prevacid and now everything else...nothing to control it.  Plus all the milk and coconut water I have to drink for the electrolytes cause allergic to med does me no favors.  Just got to do best can.  I do use many pillows but just not enough.  But moving after eating and eating more often and less helps sometimes.  The stress is not a help but is what it is for now.  Hoping things will settle. 

Thank you for all your thoughts MMT.  I truly appreciate it!  Take care!  Gardening sounds lovely!💜

[Rosetta]

(((Rabe))). I'm trying to get through a hard morning, but I'm sending my love. R

[Rabe]

@Rosetta Thank you Rosetta for stopping in the midst of a difficult day.  Please take care!

I have had a rough day again.  Today I tried all day to catch up on the electrolytes and keep stomach settled.  Was hard to do anything really...everything gets so off.  Grateful managed to get groceries yesterday.  I feel tired today...lots of not good thoughts and much depression.  After the Viibryd the electrolytes really ramped up...but the doses are higher than the capsules I had been taking from the dregs of the last batch...dont know if that is the difference.  Who knows.  Gratefully I have made it though the day without a trip to ER or Urgent care.  

Just find it so depressing and hard to sit in this apartment all day.  Did walk in the sun a bit twice...short slow strolls but felt good.  

Take care Rosetta!  Love and hugs to you my friend!💜

[neroli]

Hello dear Rabe

 

Sounds like you had a tough time yesterday - the tiredness would not have helped at all.

 

On 3/23/2019 at 6:53 PM, Rabe said:

Grateful managed to get groceries yesterday.  I feel tired today...lots of not good thoughts and much depression.

 

It's a big deal getting groceries - so good on you for managing that.  Not good thoughts and depression hit me as well,   Hope you've managed to ride them out and are feeling a bit better.

 

You're a trooper, dear Rabe.

 

love and hugs

 

Neroli xxxx 💜