Rabe: how to taper and adjust Viibryd while on Clonazepam

[neroli]

Hello dear Rabe

 

Oh, you've got one of those really tough days.  I am so sorry.  They are the ones for me where I count the minutes going by.  I do hope you've had some let up somewhere today.

 

3 hours ago, Rabe said:

Being in this apartment alone with no family or friends is a true nightmare

 

3 hours ago, Rabe said:

but all is too much and keeping the stress down is so helpful albeit lonely and all.

 

This is the paradox we face, keeping down stress and facing the isolation.  It is tiring, Rabe, and you do so well to cope with it - keep plodding on.

 

3 hours ago, Rabe said:

Just not feeling very good about who I have become.

 

I'm sure the "you" inside is still as loving and giving as you always were - it's just that the pills have bludgeoned you, so you are not capable of being as externally actively involved as you were.  It is a grief for you, I'm sure.

 

3 hours ago, Rabe said:

Sorry....just feeling so sad today and feeling I will never have the life I did.

 

I get you on this one.  It is a big grief for me. People do get better and some people get somewhat better.  I am trying to come to terms with the very different picture of what I thought life was going to be like.  I hope we can both come to terms with this and live the best life we can.

 

3 hours ago, Rabe said:

My anxiety is too bad

 

Oh, one of the hardest to cope with.  None of the WD symptoms are particularly lovely but anxiety is tough.  I sure do wish you get some breaks from this.

 

Sending you the best wishes I can - you are in my thoughts.  And thank you for your support.

 

with love

 

Neroli 💜

[wantrelief]

Hello Rabe,

 

I was going to write you to thank you for your sweet supportive message on my thread and then just read your last post.  I am so very sorry you had such a difficult day yesterday. I am sad you've had trouble with your daughter continuing to not understand what you are going through and not seeing how hard you are trying.  This all can't be helping how you are feeling.  As Neroli said above, the real you is still there even if it doesn't feel that way and life has become so different than it was previously. You are coping so well with all you have been confronted with and demonstrate such strength.  At the same time you are so supportive to others all whilst you are going through such a challenging time.  All of those things are the real you, my friend.

 

You had asked on my thread what method I am using to taper citalopram and I am using the liquid version.

 

I am thinking about you and hoping today is better for you than yesterday.  💗WR

 

[Rosetta]

Hi Rabe, 

I'm so sorry about your daughter.  And that you can't travel.  All I can say is that I'm here for you.  This is absolutely the most horrible experience.  I wish there were some way to help your daughter understand that baby sitting is out of the question. Driving is out of the question.  Just taking care of yourself is all that is possible, and even that is not always possible.  This is not your fault, and you are not failing given the circumstances, Rabe.  You are doing all you can.  You have different boundaries than you wish you did, but they are boundaries set by a physical ailment, not by you.

[Rabe]

I hesitate to post...I have not been uplifting Im afraid.

It is hard to believe today was a worse day.  I just feel sick and tired and IDK.  My daughter is going to have another baby...they are trying.  I feel I need to make some decisions about so much.  I think I cannot get a home now...I would not make it through another move, though I SO want to go 'home'.

I realize being here is not a good thing.  It would be better if I were farther away....no expectations which I think would be better.  

It is hard to even think about being this way for years....

Thats enough of that....blessings to all.  Love and cherish you all dearly! 

@neroli @wantrelief @Rosetta Thank you as always...I cried reading your posts.  

On 4/13/2019 at 11:58 PM, Rosetta said:

This is not your fault,

In part it is Rosetta...in part it is.  I didnt understand and I didnt demand answers or explanations, I didnt research things, I didnt think back on my life and how my body always over reacted after a stressful event.  I thought I was reacting to the meds...and she I did....but I m reacting to food as well.  It will stop when my system settles...but it cant settle with all the hits to the system in various forms.  I just want to stop it all right now....but even doing nothing since the procedure hasn't stopped it.  IDK...

Bless you all again...this is a massive wave that has gone on and on it seems....and I feel as if I am drowning today.  Maybe tomorrow will be better.  Love to all!💜

[neroli]

Hello dear Rabe

 

I was going to pop in to say thank you for your lovely message on my thread.  Please do remember that your support/words of encouragement are very important to me. 

 

So I've come over to your house to find that you are experiencing an extended, very difficult wave.  It's not fair, and I'm so sorry that you have that to cope with, along with family decisions and the desire to go 'home'.

 

Please don't try to do too many decisions - cut back to what you can deal with if you can, give yourself a bit of self-care (I know it's hard when the symptoms are very bad).  I'm with Rosetta when she says it's not your fault, the dratted drugs have imposed limitations on you.

 

And I think you can give yourself an easier time over decisions you've made in the past, I go through mine and come out at exactly the same spot every time - there is just no way I can know if things would be better or worse if I had made different decisions at certain points - ie. the more I try to figure out the 'what ifs', the less I get any answers.  So I am practising putting it in the IDK box and leaving it there.  It works sometimes.  I am getting more confident that I understand I only get myself caught up in knots if I try to pursue that line of investigation.

 

You have had better days and I'm sure you will settle again.  As Rosetta said to me 'it's all neuro-emotion -- fear.  This wave will let up.  I understand how hard it is that the breaks are too short." and Wantrelief augmented with: "There are so many uncertainties in the journey (i.e. what we are going to experience as we taper, the timeframe, etc.) and this is quite anxiety provoking but I do think the evidence points to us healing" I think we have to pin our thoughts to these words of hope whenever we can.  And take things moment by moment when necessary.

 

Tomorrow may well be a better day....yesterday I was so utterly exhausted, my legs were almost buckling and I was nauseous and depressed; I didn't know how I was going to get through another day AND have to work today. As it turns out, I've had a low-anxiety day and felt quite calm and grateful that I could get through the work and be calm enough to sit on my couch and do some knitting this afternoon.  So things do change.  And I hope they do for you pretty soon.  A teensy, tiny glimpse would be lovely.

 

You are in my thoughts Rabe, you help me muddle through.

 

love from your PF - and lots of hugs (blimey, I'm getting a bit huggy for a Brit!)

 

Neroli xxx. 💜

 

 

 

[RusTW]

Hi Rabe Wishing you some relief. Things will get better. 

Russ

[RichT]

Hi Rabe,

 

so so sorry to hear about your family difficulties. Relief from your difficulties will come....

 

Sending you warmest wishes,

 

R

[Rosetta]

I'm so sorry.  I have been there.  It does feel like drowning or suffocating.  I quit taking electrolyte powder in my water before bed, and I stopped waking up with a jolt.  I still wake up, but the spike of adrenaline feeling is so much more mild or non-existent.  You can heal despite the upsets to the system.  I have.  

 

You may remember that I stopped taking magnesium a while back, and the jolts became less intense and less frequent. Yet, I have healed despite those irritants, but we do have to suffer through the symptoms the irritants cause.  Our bodies are so amazing.  I'm still in awe that I am healing.  It could just as easily have gone the other way, right?  The scientists and doctors didn't know what long term use of this stuff would do to us!!

 

I was reading about William Stryon on madinamerica.  He didn't take psych drugs for depression when he was younger, but he quit alcohol and after that he had insomnia.  So, he was prescribed Halcyon to sleep.  (It was banned later, I think.) When he quit Halcyon he became very depressed.  He still had no psych drugs, and he recovered.  But somehow the depression returned 14 years later, and then he took psych drugs.  After that he was in and out of psych hospitals the last few years before he had pneumonia and passed.  I'm sure they kept changing his drugs and increasing the doses.  He stayed ill and got worse.

 

You are not changing your doses.  You are keeping them as stable as you can, and I beieve that despite the little changes you can't control that you will heal.  My monthly cycle keeps poisoning me over and over again.  I can feel it.  Right now, I feel like I had alcohol or drank some chemical, but it's just my hormones.  Yet, I'm still healing even though my body is "poisoning me" twice a month -- once at ovulation and once at menstruation.  Over and over and over.  I can't stop it.

 

Looking back I have suffered so much the last two years, and I was taking nothing except magnesium most of the time.  I didn't start with that until much later, maybe even a year after I quit Zoloft.  I switched to decaf.  The electrolytes I added even later.  So, what my point is: some of the symptoms are caused by a reaction and some of them by WD dysautonomia waves.  The effect of the reaction is exaggerated, but it doesn't prevent you from healing.  I don't think you are doomed to years of this.  I think it's going to get easier as you go along and when you get low enough you can slow down to preserve your quality of life.  We don't know what dose of Viibryd you will tolerate well, but you will get to it.  The same with the Clonazapam.  And you will have a better, much better quality of life much sooner than zero, Rabe, I am sure of it.

 

Love, Rosetta

[Terry]

On 4/13/2019 at 2:30 AM, neroli said:

People do get better and some people get somewhat better.

I don't like to think about getting only "somewhat better".  I want to be free of these debilitating WD symptoms!  Right now I feel stuck after my last cut of sertraline, like I dare not try tapering again.  I recently watched a series of videos called Broken Brain, which was given by a functional medicine MD, with many other health care professionals. It was a really good series, exploring and explaining the mind-body connection. So I decided to go see a functional medicine doctor here last week to see if I have any underlying conditions which could be interfering with WD progress, or if he has recommendations for making the process easier.  My appointment lasted over an hour and I'm anxious to go to my next appointment to hear the results of all his testing.  

 

Our brains are such wonderful structures, it's a shame what ADs can do to them.

 

Wishing you many days filled with windows, Neroli!

[neroli]

Hello dear Rabe

 

Dropping by to say hello and hope that you are ok - it would be lovely if you've had some improvement in your symptoms so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it is happening for you.

 

Thinking of you PF - hang in there

 

Neroli 💜

[Carmie]

Hi Rabe, 

 

I’m so sorry your wave has been so bad. Just popping around to send you hugs🤗

[wantrelief]

I've been thinking about you too, Rabe, and hope you are doing ok.  

[Rosetta]

I'm thinking about you, too.  So worried.  You seem so distressed right now.  Sometimes it gets really bad.  Thank you for your sweet note on my thread.  You are such an important part of SA, Rabe.  Thanks for checking in.

[neroli]

Still here with you Rabe.

 

sending love

 

Neroli 💜

[Carmie]

Hi Rabe, 

 

I’m still thinking of you too. Looks like a lot of people on here are concerned about you. Please let us know how you’re doing.💚

[Rosetta]

I'm thinking of you everyday, Rabe.  

 

All my love,  Rosetta

[neroli]

Me too, Rabe.

 

Neroli 💜

[Rabe]

@neroli @Rosetta @wantrelief @Carmie @RusTW @RichT 

Have kept all of you in my prayers and will catch up.  Have been reacting to nearly all foods (to see an allergist) so pretty much existing on chicken and lettuce and some bread.  Pretty crazy but did get out for a short walk today .... cooler which for me is better. 

Was sad to have Easter pass by as it did but grateful today has been a bit better.  

I am continuing to slowly crossover to the new CLonazepam.  What I have noticed is that maybe as I take lower doses (based on capsule contents) of the Viibryd I dont get so so anxious in the afternoon though IDK..each day is so different.  Still I do feel it best to hold so refilled the 8.75 reluctantly as it will mean higher doses again.  I took capsules of higher and lower doses and put them in a separate container an juset picked one out and journaled on the day so that my mind wast getting in the mix...there seems to be a connection between dose and effects....but stress is also a factor and I know for sure food is as well.  

Hard to sort it all out sometimes...well most of the time.  

Wanted to get on the site today and catch up and tell you all that I care deeply and send love and hugs to you!!!

[Rabe]

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[Rabe]

Wondering if could get some help with this?  Have been having trouble posting and not sure what this means?  Thank you...

[Rabe]

Hardest thing has been return of actual panic that does not recede...not just anxiety.  Grateful for a break today.  ZZZSorry for the posting troubles .... have missed everyone.💜

[Rabe]

I am not able to tag for some reason...sorry....sometimes wont post.  Have no idea what problem is but wanted you to know I have been trying!!

[Carmie]

Hi Rabe, 

 

Nice to hear from you. I’m glad you’re getting some afternoons where the anxiety isn’t too bad, and that you’re having a break from it today. We certainly don’t know how we will be from one hour to the next, do we? I’m sorry your panic gets so bad.

 

13 minutes ago, Rabe said:

I am not able to tag for some reason...sorry....sometimes wont post.  Have no idea what problem is but wanted you to know I have been trying!!

 

Yes, the software won’t let us tag people at the moment. It’s best just to go to their threads and write on them without tagging. 

 

Wishing you many more days where your anxiety is a little lower, sending hugs🤗

[wantrelief]

21 hours ago, Rabe said:

Hardest thing has been return of actual panic that does not recede...not just anxiety.  Grateful for a break today.  

Oh Rabe, I am so sorry you have been experiencing such awful panic that does not go away.  You are really really strong for getting through that....I hope you know how courageous you are.  I am so thankful you got a break yesterday.....I really hope the breaks become more and more.  I just wrote you back on my thread but couldn't "tag" you.  I want you to know how much I appreciate all of your support.  

[wantrelief]

Hi Rabe,

 

I thought I'd respond to your post here on your thread as you are asking questions about your taper so I thought it would be good for it to be here. 

 

You wrote:  I dont know whether to taper the Viibryd still or wait until switch to new clonazepam is all done.  I am finding that as I take the lower filled capsules of Viibryd I dont get such an anxiety rise as did but seems my anxiety is worse in general.  I also wonder if Ive been taking a lower dose anyway why not continue.  I cant seem to make decisions or think well.  SO frustrating.

 

I know how hard it is to know what to do regarding tapering when you've got more than one drug on board.  It makes sense to me to wait to make any changes until you've completed the switch to the new clonazepam so that you can see how that goes before doing anything else.  However, a moderator might have a different approach.

 

I am really sorry you are feeling so badly consistently and for so long now.  Oh how I wish I knew what would make this better for you, Rabe.  I do want you to know that you are not alone and are in my thoughts.  💗WR

 

 

[neroli]

Hello Rabe

 

Thank you for popping in to my thread.  Sorry I haven't been on yours for a while.

 

I'm really sorry you are having to deal with panic - but glad you got a bit of a break on Sunday.

 

I'm with Wantrelief on completing the Clonazepam switch before you making any other changes.  We have sensitive systems now and it's probably best to not rattle it with too much change at one time.  

 

I don't know if I read your message right but it sounds like you are taking varying doses of Viibryd each day, depending on which capsule you pick out.  I'm pretty certain that consistent dosing is the way to go to keep our systems steady.  I may have got your message all wrong, though.

 

The Clonazepam switch could be smooth and then you can re-think you're taper.

 

Of course, the mods may have a different idea.  That's just my two cents' worth.

 

Thinking of you dear PF - there's a ring of support around you on this site and we're all doing the best we can, as you are.

 

much love

 

Neroli 💜 

[Rosetta]

HI, sweetie.  Thank you for your kind note on my thread.  You put so much effort into that.  I feel so touched.  

 

I hope are are feeling better.  I'm glad you had some relief.  I really care for you, and I want this phase you are in to end so badly.  

 

Rosetta

[Rabe]

I am feeling very scared.  This morning I felt good...toook a walk, chatted with my daughter, came back and took my Vibryd  at 1140 and ate per usual.  

It was one of 2 capsules I had left.  At about 1240 or so my lip and eyes swelled, I was anxious, tired, depressed, chilled...felt awful!   It was similar to what

happened after the Carafate.  I felt SO fatigued and weak so I laid on the couch and finally felt a bit around 2 though still so so tired and then worse again around 

345 or so 4?  Have not felt well all day.  It was a larger dose than I had been taking...have done that before and with new capsules that came this afternoon I will have to do that....before I noticed got more anxious later but nothing like this.  IDK what to do.  

Please if anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate it.  It is a familiar feeling as I have reacted to so many meds and so many things in my life...my eyes are still irritated and puffy tonight.  I sure dont feel well. Love to all. 💜  

[Rabe]

21 hours ago, neroli said:

don't know if I read your message right but it sounds like you are taking varying doses of Viibryd each day, depending on which capsule you pick out.  I'm pretty certain that consistent dosing is the way to go to keep our systems steady.  I may have got your message all wrong, though.

 

 

Thats right Neroli...it varies...they both vary...but the Viibryd is a bigger problem it seems since the GI procedure when I took it after.  The only thing I can correlate is I was reacting to something from the procedure when I took it, and both the Viibryd and the Carafate I reacted to have red dye.  I'm truly lost at this point....

Thank you for stopping Neroli!  Love and hugs.💜

[neroli]

Hello dear Rabe

 

I'm so sorry to hear you are feeling so unwell and are frightened.

 

I'm walking right with you.  I am in a pretty bad way today.

 

Wishing us both some relief.

 

much love

 

Neroli 💜

[Rabe]

@neroli I was just reading your thread Neroli....I am so sorry for all that is going on with you.  I can tell you that I get the flushing and hot feeling in my face and head but chills after meds too.  I also dont do well with yogurt....and many other foods with high histamine levels...some teas are another one.  I dont know it it is an issue for you but you could google it and see what foods are there....there are a ton of them!  And spring and warm weather can make things worse with cross allergies between food and pollens etc.  

Everything seems so crazy huh?.  Today was a nightmare.  If I could just stop these I would...today is a day I think I cannot take the Viibryd anymore.  Maybe it has to do with the new capsules from the new Cl tablet too...I just dont know.  

Thinking about you so Neroli!  I am so sorry you are feeling so ill.  Love and hugs to you my PF!  💜

[Rabe]

@Roseta Thank you Rosetta for stopping.  SO glad you are better.  Ive had a pretty awful day...scary awful.  Hoping to get some advice...IDK.  

Take care!!!  Love and hugs to you!💜

[neroli]

Thank you, @Rabe

 

Maybe the yoghurt is having extra effect - I didn't know it was high histamine and have only just started trying it as a source of fat to help me feel satiated.

 

You posted to Rosetta on my thread - and the tag isn't spelled the same as the Rosetta in California.

 

much love to you

 

Neroli xxxx 💜

[neroli]

duh! sorry, you posted to Rosetta on your own thread - not mine!  going gaga.  still wondering about the spelling but maybe you know a Roseta on SA.

 

apologies for my bungle

 

💜

[Rabe]

@RosettaThank you Rosetta for stopping.  SO glad you are better.  Ive had a pretty awful day...scary awful.  Hoping to get some advice...IDK.  

Take care!!!  Love and hugs to you!💜

[Rosetta]

How are you doing now?  I wish there was some advice I could give you.  I have no idea what you can do, but I'm here for you.