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Rabe: how to taper and adjust Viibryd while on Clonazepam

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Rosetta

Sending love and hugs, Rabe.  I'm happy you went to see your granddaughter today.  Two is sooo cute.  I'm sure that brightened your day.  Love, Rosetta

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Rabe

@neroli @wantrelief @Carmie @RusTW @RosettaJust wanted to say thank you for stopping and for your thoughts.  Mean so much as you all know.  I will catch up on your threads.  Not going to stay long...but think about you so and would like to see how you all are doing.  Love and hugs!💜

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Rabe

@manymoretodays Hope you are doing ok.  As of yesterday night taking 7new and 2 old CL capsules.  Getting there.  Have to soon as old ones will be gone.

 I have not been keeping up in my small notebook...just have not been up to it....but here are notes from 19th...I'll look back and get you some more.  Just getting anywhere has been a blessing...groceries happened yesterday and today so that was helpful.  Hope you have a good Memorial Day. 💜

 

5//19 800 .... 5 or so hours sleep

          1000 ... usual am anxiety...meditation helped.  

          1140 Viibryd 8.75mg with toast, chicken, lettuce, butter

            115  Tried to drive to my daughter's...had to turn around...just too anxious. Eyes red and irritated.

            145  stopped at grocery store ... anxiety continues 

            245  food .. noodles, oatmeal, butter, chicken and beef, lettuce, asparagus, tried bite avocado again. Nose runs

            300  increased anxiety

            345 bit better

            400 anxiety way up

            445 tried some some blueberries

            515 or so feel much better

            540 Clonazepam .2mg with water and milk.  Then had chicken, potatoes, lettuce, cucumber

            600 anxiety worse 

            730 some better...short walk made it worse

            745 so anxious, eyes irritated, feel short of breath kind of...hard to describe...ears ringing so loud

            900 Premarin .3mg with water and milk

           1045 no anxiety

           1140 Clonazepam .7mg 4 new/3 old capsules with water and milk

Sorry forgot to post this...I apologize.  

            

            

             

             

            

 

            

            

            

            

           

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Rabe

@manymoretodays And wanted you to know that it seems to be my sodium that is the culprit now...so trying to work on that but I have a salt sensitivity so this is quite crazy.  And I dont think the Viibryd helps it ... sometimes I seem to dry right up after it and the eyes and lip are worse.  IDK.  Anyway wanted to update you on that.  Just had them done as I didnt feel well.  

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neroli

Hello my PF

 

Thank you for your lovely note on my thread.  Today has been better, thank you.

 

I'm pleased to hear your Clonazepam switch is nearly done - hope that will settle things down a bit.  I'm so sorry to see that you are having such anxiety to cope with - I really do hope that this calms down for you, it is a most fatiguing and extremely uncomfortable symptom to deal with. You are so strong to make your life as good as it is around that.

 

Thinking of you and sending you the warmest of wishes across the wide old sea.

 

Neroli 💜

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DMV64
On 5/27/2019 at 1:24 AM, Rabe said:

And wanted you to know that it seems to be my sodium

Gosh I can't keep up with all the factors that can affect my taper. Seriously. How do you even know what is what?

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Hibari

Dear Rabe,

 

I'm thinking of you at this time.  I just want you to know that I truly believe you will find your way to health. 

 

Hibari 

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2019 at 12:26 AM, Rabe said:

Wondering re Claritin?  Used to take it but am very leery to add anything.

I also think issues are related to upended GI system...took a real dive after that procedure and not being able to take anything for the GI issues is not helping 

immune system I know. 

 

On 5/26/2019 at 11:07 PM, Rabe said:

@manymoretodays Hope you are doing ok.  As of yesterday night taking 7new and 2 old CL capsules.  Getting there.  Have to soon as old ones will be gone.

 I have not been keeping up in my small notebook...just have not been up to it....but here are notes from 19th...I'll look back and get you some more.  Just getting anywhere has been a blessing...groceries happened yesterday and today so that was helpful.  Hope you have a good Memorial Day. 💜

 

5//19 800 .... 5 or so hours sleep

          1000 ... usual am anxiety...meditation helped.  

          1140 Viibryd 8.75mg with toast, chicken, lettuce, butter

            115  Tried to drive to my daughter's...had to turn around...just too anxious. Eyes red and irritated.

            145  stopped at grocery store ... anxiety continues 

            245  food .. noodles, oatmeal, butter, chicken and beef, lettuce, asparagus, tried bite avocado again. Nose runs

            300  increased anxiety

            345 bit better

            400 anxiety way up

            445 tried some some blueberries

            515 or so feel much better

            540 Clonazepam .2mg with water and milk.  Then had chicken, potatoes, lettuce, cucumber

            600 anxiety worse 

            730 some better...short walk made it worse

            745 so anxious, eyes irritated, feel short of breath kind of...hard to describe...ears ringing so loud

            900 Premarin .3mg with water and milk

           1045 no anxiety

           1140 Clonazepam .7mg 4 new/3 old capsules with water and milk

Sorry forgot to post this...I apologize.  

                        

 

On 5/26/2019 at 11:24 PM, Rabe said:

@manymoretodays And wanted you to know that it seems to be my sodium that is the culprit now...so trying to work on that but I have a salt sensitivity so this is quite crazy.  And I dont think the Viibryd helps it ... sometimes I seem to dry right up after it and the eyes and lip are worse.  IDK.  Anyway wanted to update you on that.  Just had them done as I didnt feel well.  

 

Hi Rabe!  No worries,  and I had a nice Memorial day weekend.

When do you see your doctor, any doctor next?  I kind of want you to get an epi pen if you can.  Sure, the epinephrine is stimulating and would make you feel shaky I'm sure, but for just in case.......just in case your throat swells up or something.  You can plug Claritin in at drugs.com and check the thread on antihistamines.  Maybe that's an okay option too. 

Do discuss an epipen with one of your doctors though, and try and get one!

 

How are you coming with histamine diet or trying some things around that?

 

Good that the crossover is just about done.  Ugh, with the other symptoms in your notes/log from the 19th.  And you are eating a bit more too!

 

So.....your sodium is low or high?? 

Yes, maybe tapering Viibryd should be next.  I'm still not sure though.  See what your Viibryd and clonazepam prescriber was thinking........as far as wanting to go with a clonazepam taper next, what that was all about?  It could be he or she was concerned on the allergies too.

 

All for now.  Thanks for the notes.  And apologies as I didn't see the @ notifications until today.  ????  Once you've settled in after the crossover, let's get another day or two of notes/logs that are current too.  And share with Shep on your benzo thread.  That will be helpful.  Maybe some changes in spacing and the way you split the milligrams of dosage will bring some relief and more stability.

 

Okay, all for now.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

(is this the longest post ever, with the quotes and all???!!!)

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays

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manymoretodays

I also notice Rabe, that you are not getting much sleep.   You probably need more than 5 hours and some chump change.  Sleep can be very healing, giving your nervous system a break.  Running on a revved up sleep deprived system is very stressful and counter intuitive to healing.

 

And maybe.....to be addressed later........rather than a further timing split of clonazepam, maybe getting that all moved to one dose?

We can address that with Shep, when the time comes.

 

Not disregarding your allergy/various hypersensitivity  issues at all here, but what new practices are working for you?  I'm really working on my upper back and neck area.....just plain old good posture, stretches, a bit of acupressure, yoga positions, etc.  Having nice confidential talks with my therapist every other week.  Morning meditations.  Music......oh, the music is back!  Practicing my guitar and kitchen dancing whilst singing is great.  Singing in the car too.  Flooding my olafactory factory with good smells.....natural nature smells.  And life is good.

 

S'okay.  Hope it's a good one for you today......even in bits and pieces.  They all add up eventually!

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

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Rabe

@manymoretodays  I don't want to take the CL all in one dose I dont think MMT...what I do sleep is out like a lite...and I have trouble getting up and going in the morning...but who knows.  I never feel like doing anything until later and not out of bed until have to take the Viibryd at 1130.  Been a really bad day today...but yesterday was better.  I will answer you when I feel better if that is ok.  Thank you so much!💜

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Rabe

@Hibari  Thank you Hibari....I so hope you are finding your way through all your health issues and that you and Step are working on the other...I know it will be ok!!  Love and hugs!💜

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Rabe

@DMV64 It is hard to keep anything straight.  I just get labs on and off when not feeling well and lately the potassium has been ok but the sodium is on low side..and I know the Viibryd does not help that.  I am trying to eat more salt but that affects the Potassium and so it goes.  I also get a salt sensitivity when my system is so reved...and that makes it hard as well.  I dont eat much salt per se at all...but am trying slowly to add it back a bit...but my system doesnt like it much .

The food is easy to know because I dont feel well when I eat and that has been life long, but always worse after a surgery, childbirth, etc.  When my system takes a hit things just go awry.  My son has much of same issues and I have so wanted to try to find answers for him if find them for me....but noone believes this is all possible.  If you are not a round peg in a round hole no one knows what to do.  My son had a stroke at age 24....and just had another MRI.  No new stroke areas but small vessel disease is worse...I have that as well....my heart is affected...this is usually secondary to inflammation...I think histamine could be an issue as well as sensitivities.  

He has had lots of GI issues, as did and have I , but nothing showed up on Sigmoid....so therefore everything is 'ok'...wrong!!!  

 I was charge nurse on a psych/behavioral unit that then became the end stage dementia unit.  My residents could not tell me what was wrong,..it just played out in various ways and it was up to the PA and myself to try to dig and figure out what might be going on.  Sometimes it was very obvious but often not.  I remember one  lovely lady who had mild dementia and would laugh and talk and then the PA decided to stop her .25mg CLonazepam....I dont even know why I said not to do that...but he did anyway.  From then on she sat with her head hanging on her chest and rarely said a word.  

It scares me because the therapist inpatient had me write "I may never be the person I was again"...obviously they knew what i did not...but never shared it with me which I dont understand.  There is such a lack of honesty/knowledge/options.  IDK.  

Im sorry DMV...I am rambling.  My mind has not been working well at all.  I cant keep track of things...loset my credit card twice in past two days and it is still gone.  Just so much is unnerving. 

I so hope you are doing ok and finding your way in your new work place and loving your little 'Z'.  Take care DMV!!!💜

 

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Rabe

I had a lovely day with my daughter and grand daughter recently, but today was a truly rough day...and I feel I may not get to her 2 year old birthday party Saturday.  That would be so upsetting.  But his family is SO rowdy and drink quite a bit and it bit and it really is overwhelming even in best of times...but I still would like to be there.  I know Nina would be upset if I were not.  Oh well...day at time.  

I am so so tired after today....dealing with the lost card that I found yesterday was just upsetting.  I feel I have no mind anymore.  Scary.  Glad I have long term care...I worry about dementia myself!!

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Rabe said:

It scares me because the therapist inpatient had me write "I may never be the person I was again"...obviously they knew what i did not...but never shared it with me which I dont understand.  There is such a lack of honesty/knowledge/options.  IDK.  

 

Wow!  And huh?  I don't understand this either Rabe.  It shouldn't be "us" and "them", in other words.

There are options.....always options.  This I DO know.

 

I enjoyed the whole post that you wrote to DMV.  Very informative.  And some of the medical in it was helpful too.  In that some of these issues/difficulties are more long standing things.....not entirely WD things or entirely related to the medications/drugs.    I'm so glad you are trying to get your health back.

 

9 hours ago, Rabe said:

 I remember one  lovely lady who had mild dementia and would laugh and talk and then the PA decided to stop her .25mg CLonazepam....I dont even know why I said not to do that...but he did anyway.  From then on she sat with her head hanging on her chest and rarely said a word.  

Oh, so sad.  However, you are you, and this lovely lady was her.  In other words.......we are each, as Alto says N=1.  Meaning that no two cases are completely alike, even in WD.......but especially in general.  We each have a unique and individual healing capacity.  Thank goodness for that, eh? 

 

Glad you got your card found or back. 

 

And I am happy to have worked in Peds, primarily.  I did try some psych nursing, in lock down type places.  And oh my.......not for me, not for me at all.  And bad timing when I tried that as well.  I was in the midst of being so medicated........probably due to WD, yet un -beknownst to me at that time........or any of my prescribers(that's what gets to me the most).  Either that or just plain old adverse effects of medications I was given.  Ugh.

 

Anyway.......you seem to have great clarity late at night.  I think that would go against having dementia.  Don't you?

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

p.s. have fun celebrating your granddaughter, whatever you decide to do.

 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
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wantrelief

Hi Rabe - Thank you for your sweet messages on my thread.  I am so happy for you that you had a good day recently with your daughter and granddaughter!  I am really sorry to hear yesterday was so rough.  It is so hard when you are up and down like this and can't know how you'll be from one day to the next.  I know you also are struggling with your daughter not being understanding of what you are going through and that this causes a lot of stress.  I am glad you found your credit card....losing things like that happen to everybody, especially when they are under a great deal of stress which you are.  Please be gentle with yourself, Rabe.  You are right, one day at a time.....that is all we can do.  You are doing so well with all you are juggling.  💗WR

 

 

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Hibari
10 hours ago, Rabe said:

@Hibari  Thank you Hibari....I so hope you are finding your way through all your health issues and that you and Step are working on the other...I know it will be ok!!  Love and hugs!💜

Thanks Rabe. My health issues are a bit of a continuing mystery but I am trying to let things settle down. 

 

Later on I will be tapering down more on my benzo and though I have a great deal of fear around the taper, I know there is no other way.  

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Rabe

@wantrelief   Wellll....I found my card and then lost it again the very same day.  REALLY got down on myself yesterday and was so agitated anyway and things spiraled .... but some days are just like that anyway so who knows.  I haven't started meds or food yet do things are still pretty good.  Thank you for your kind thoughts.  Take care of you!  Hope the tapering continues to go well?💜

 

 

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Rabe

@manymoretodays I cant find now where you wrote it...but you talked about getting the CLonazepam better spaced .... I am really thinking that would be of help.

I find that earlier AM I am better and late at night I am better...after the CLonazepam.  Yesterday was a truly desperate day and by evening I was exhausted with the anxiety and all.  When finally took the CLonazepam things settled and I was up until 130 getting some things done.

I used to take it 10-6-10.  And I guess it if wears off in less that 6 hours which with fast metabolizing im sure it does then Im sure that could be the late afternoon spike (or could be the Viibryd I guess) but also get a spike earlier.  Ill try to find a notebook and start separate notes from my journaling. 

In treatment I remember the nicer doctor saying to me THEN, when I was still on 2mg of the Clonazepam that I was probably feeling more anxious in the afternoon and I said yes how did you know and he said you are withdrawing...and I said how can that be when I am not tapering...and he didnt say anything.  I was really not up to speed on all this at all.  But he was right, wanted me to take some in afternoon and I didnt want to.  But until the rapid taper I was still functioning well.  

In any case, I remember back a year os so too that after the evening CLonazepam my face looked different...calmer etc...and sometimes I think it actually makes the  swelling and all better.  I will watch that.

Thank you again.

So Ill just continue the crossover for now?

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wantrelief

Oh Rabe, I am really sorry about  your card.....definitely not the stress you need, especially if you were already not feeling well.  I am glad you are getting some relief now, some space from the symptoms.  

 

Thank you for inquiring about my taper.  I am holding for the moment.  I have rough patches where the symptoms seem worse but overall seem to be in the same not so good state.....so good that I can taper but hard that things have remained the same for so long now.  I can only hope I am on the right path and someday will feel some change for the better.  I so very much hope the same for you.

 

I will be thinking about you, Rabe.

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neroli

Hello dear Rabe

 

Popping in to say hello and hope that you are having a better day than yesterday.  They go up and down so much don't they (the days)? I know you have quite a few consistent symptoms but occasionally you get a bit of a break.  I can only say from my experience that I get quite a few swings from day to day - and on the tough days I find it nigh-on impossible to think that things can get better

 

That's why it's priceless having yours and others' encouraging messages.  Thank you for that.

 

So, hopefully, you've had a bit of a break.

 

Love to you, PF

 

Neroli 

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Rabe

@neroli Thank you Neroli.  I have had one of the worst days I can remember.  I got up and ready to my grand daughters birthday....took my Viibryd and ate and I just was so dizzy and pale and weak and crampy  and sick that I couldn't.  I have not felt well all day.  My eyes are irritated and puffy as is my lip and I'm anxious and depressed and on and on...I know you know.  

I feel so very lost, alone and down.  My best friend form home was there with her daughter and grand daughter...our girls were best friends and their daughters look just like them.  I just feel so defeated.  I had made her a quilt and a little quilt for a dolly I had repaired that was her mom's.  I was so excited.  I juset dont see the point of this is you cannot live your life.  It makes no sense to me..none of it.  

I am glad to hear you have been better...SO happy to hear.  I hope it continues for you Neroli.  Love and hugs to you.  💜

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Kristine

Oh dear @Rabe, this awful journey is so cruel and I so wish I could give you a real hug. Nothing is making sense to me either at the moment...only that one day the pain will ease and we can begin to participate in life again. Just know you are cared for and you are in my thoughts. You are such a beautiful person Rabe. You don’t deserve this hell. Much Love, K xo

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neroli

Hello dear Rabe 

 

I am so so sorry that you've had such a difficult day - and that you missed your granddaughter's party.  It is so sh*tty.

 

I can only echo what Kristine has said - it is cruel but one day we will feel better (we have to hang on to that even though it is so very hard at times).

 

You are truly loved and appreciated on this site - your kindness shines through even in the toughest times.  And if all else has been stripped of us, you have retained your kindness, which is what the world needs.

 

I'm hanging on here over the pond, so we're hanging on together.

 

lots of love to you

 

Neroli 💜

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neroli

Another thing I want to say, Rabe, is that although none of us want to be here and it can be hard to post to the forum sometimes (either feeing too yucky, or just totally over it all (Shep's famous battle fatigue)), we are with you for the long haul.  (While hoping that it's shorter than we think!).

 

💜💜💜

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wantrelief

Oh Rabe, I am so very sorry you felt so unwell yesterday and that you weren't able to make it to your granddaughter's birthday.  This is all so unfair and, as you said, just makes no sense.  There will come a time when you will be past this.  I know how hard the days are now and it doesn't seem like it will ever be any different but it will.  My thoughts and heart are with you.  💗WR.

 

 

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Rabe

@Kristine Thank you Kristine...I was so very sad....and I know my daughter just cannot understand and it hurts her.  But I also know it probably would have been too much so was perhaps for best as the day was really really not a good one.  Whew!  But I dont have to tell you.  

The rocking and holding your head and trying to just settle is something I do often.  You have been through SO much..I dont know how you do it Kristine...but I am so grateful that you are here because you are a truly gentle kind soul with a beautiful soft radiating light.  

On 6/1/2019 at 10:29 PM, Kristine said:

one day the pain will ease and we can begin to participate in life again.

One day....I just dont have many days ahead of me and I get sad that so many special moments have already slipped by, like my sons wedding, and it continues.  

But I so hope you are right Kristine because I feel I am existing rather than living....love and hugs to you dear Kristine.  I so hope you are some better!💜

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Rabe
On 6/1/2019 at 10:45 PM, neroli said:

You are truly loved and appreciated on this site - your kindness shines through even in the toughest times.  And if all else has been stripped of us, you have retained your kindness, which is what the world needs.

I wanted to thank you for this Neroli and tell you that it is what I feel about you as well....I am grateful to have you but wish the pond were not so big.  You sound better and I am so  so happy for that.  I hope it continues and that you legs and mobility have improved.  Love and hugs and gratitude Neroli! 💜

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Rabe

@neroli I am sorry that I stay away when I am feeling so poorly....I think it goes back to old messages about having to be perfect.  I will try to work on this...thank you for this insight Neroli.  Take care my dear friend!!💜

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Rabe

@wantrelief I wanted to thank you for your thoughts...you are all so special to me and my heart holds what have become my dearest friends...who understand and accept which is such a gift in and of itself.  But then there is the caring hearts and loving, tender souls that go with it...you are so special want relief.  I know you are dealing with rough tapers yet you reach out.  Thank you so much my dear friend.  I am truly grateful!  Take care of you!  💜

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neroli

 

1 hour ago, Rabe said:

I am sorry that I stay away when I am feeling so poorly....I think it goes back to old messages about having to be perfect.  I will try to work on this...thank you for this insight

 

 

No, dear Rabe, I wan't implying that you should come on to the forum when you feel poorly - I was reflecting my own battle fatigue and feeling so poorly that I can't engage with the forum so much- I think there are times when we probably need a rest from keeping up with posts etc. 

 

Yeah, I wish the pond was just a stream so we could all meet up for a cup of tea (or water) and be able to share and support face-to-face.

 

Take much care Rabe.  Hoping for a better day for you.

 

Neroli 💜

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manymoretodays

Hi Rabe,

Yes, just finish up your crossover with the clonazepam first.  And then post on your benzo thread, some of your logs and we can get Sheps input, as to any changes with the clonazepam.

 

And so sorry that you missed the birthday party event.  However, your gift sounds just lovely.  The quilt and dolly quilt too!  I'm sure she'll love it.

Try not to despair too, too much over it.  Many fun times to look forward to with both your granddaughter and daughter.  Imagine your healthier future, it might help a little.

 

Oh Rabe!

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

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Terry
8 hours ago, Rabe said:

I feel I am existing rather than living

I can totally understand what you mean.  I feel sometimes like a zombie, just going through the motions of living.

8 hours ago, Rabe said:

I just dont have many days ahead of me and I get sad that so many special moments have already slipped by

I'm old, and wondering now whether I'll ever be free of these drugs, able to live a normal life.  It's sad to be robbed of these last years of life.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that you missed your granddaughter's birthday, especially after you made the doll quilt and doll dress for her.  Those lovingly handmade gifts are so special.    Perhaps you can give them to her at a later time?  I used to sew dresses and doll dresses for my granddaughters, and I loved seeing how much they enjoyed them.

 

I hope you are feeling better soon and that you'll have another chance to see that dear little girl.

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

Hey again,

I found this ? regarding your Viibryd and moved it here.  Left it there in your benzo thread as well.

10 hours ago, Rabe said:

Shep, I think you sent Neroli the articles to read ... I was just reading the one on theory of AD WD syndrome...this is from that article...

"Antidepressants cause downregulation of serotonin receptors. In a mechanism of brain self-defense, the receptors actually disappear, becoming more sparse so as to take in less serotonin. It is thought among withdrawal researchers that people who experience the worst withdrawal are slower than others to repopulate serotonin receptors."

I am wondering if you would be able to help me understand the Viibryd then, which I was told increases the serotonin and also calms.  So there are then 3 systems being dealt within the brain getting of the Viibryd and the Conazepam?  

 


More on Viibryd here:  Vilazodone HCL

Vilazodone is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) and a 5-HT1A receptor partial agonist. Figure 1 depicts the drug’s structural formula.

(from the linked article, I bolded the part that tells what else besides the SSRI action Viibryd is supposed to have)

And then this, from the linked article too:  Even though vilazodone is also a partial agonist at serotonergic 5-HT1A receptors, the net result of this activity on serotonergic transmission and its role in the antidepressant effect of vilazodone are not fully understood.9,11

 

So the 3 systems that your drugs work on Rabe......are serotonin reuptake, 5- HT(1A) receptor partial agonist, and then Gaba.

My understanding is that the 5-HT(1A) receptor partial agonist part in Viibryd is similar to how Buspar acts.  So they made a new drug, Viibryd with 2 actions, hoping it might work better.

 

And then.....that above is indirectly/somewhat related to AD WD syndrome in general.  More related to your individual case.

 

I just addressed the second part of your question to Shep.  As to what systems your drugs work on at present.

 

Hope that helps.

Try to keep benzo stuff on that forum and questions around your Viibryd and general questions out here on the main.  I think that reduces confusion for all of us Rabe.  Thank you.

 

And here is the One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome for your reference. 

 

It's listed in the pinned topic index, first post there,  in Symptoms and Self care, What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Oh, and great that you are trying to get further educated and understanding around all of this......your meds/drugs and WD.

Good job!

 

Where are you at with getting an epipen or talking to your doctor(s) about that?  You might consider making this a priority now.

 

Best, mmt

 

Edited by manymoretodays
added an additional extracted piece

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Rabe

@manymoretodays Thank you for that MMT.  Sorry bout that...I was talking about articles Shep had posted re effects of hyper nervous system and paradoxical reactions...like CL makes me more nervous in afternoon...and then I rambled I guess.

Thank you so much for your thoughts MMT as well as the information...I am truly grateful!  

I see the doctor Thursday and will ask him then.  Think will just switch to all new CL tonight as only have old capsules from when brass said they were out of range.  Figure might as well switch as take another of those.

Thanks again.  Hope things are good...soundske it.  I try to do yoga and meditation and get out as much as can...have started music since you mentioned that...thank you!  IDK...hard to settle sometimes.  Was good and then ate and took CL and sure dont feel well now.  I think need to take it alone...no food..and see how goes.  I tend to forget that as the afternoon dose has been a problem for awhile.  But then the V can be as well so that article helped in that the upended nervous system can react to lots.  Thanks MMT!

💜

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Rabe

@Terry  Oh Terry thank you so very much for stopping by...I am so happy to 'meet' you...someone who understands these last years of our lives means a lot.  Im sad that you are going through the same thing.  It is a challenge in its own right but I find it harder to deal with the moments and parts of life I have lost, missed and am losing and undoing.  
I hope you are able to do ok in your life with your family and friends...it is so nice to have that support and times of feeling 'normal'.  Take care Terry !!💜

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Gridley
22 minutes ago, Rabe said:

stopping by

 

Rabe, I have always appreciated your stopping by when I post.  I do prayers/Light/meditation for all of us.  It's a tough go, as we well know, but we will make it.

 

Gridley

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