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Rabe: how to taper and adjust Viibryd while on Clonazepam

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Rosetta

Hi Rabe.  I was just missing you.  At least I'm no anhedonic!  I hope you are still doing well.  

All my love, R

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Rabe
On 7/27/2019 at 8:11 AM, manymoretodays said:

And I don't if you guys noticed, but look, we are, some of us, designated Vets now.  Veteran Contributors.   In other words, we've earned our t-shirts or something. B)  I like it.  Fun.

I did notice that and it is nice and fun...I'll wait for my T Shirt.😜

 

On 7/27/2019 at 8:11 AM, manymoretodays said:

So Rabe, where you at now with the Viibryd taper? 

I dropped to 8.5mg on the 27th MMT

 

On 7/27/2019 at 8:11 AM, manymoretodays said:

So hoping you can just get down to one or two trusted doctors

THAT would be SO nice...really.  Im working on it.  The food has been an issue my whole life.  I feel better...still allergyish but better.  They are going to do SIBO testing...and some others.  Just taking it all a step at a time and listening to my body...trying to in any case.  

 

On 7/27/2019 at 8:11 AM, manymoretodays said:

It looked like you might be doing a 5 mg dose?  I was thinking a crumb might do the trick myself.  Potentially, I mean it could go paradoxical, and it can, and probably does interfere, or alter your other medication/drug absorption too.  So that's what I think on that.

I am no longer doing the 5mg....1/4 or less...yes, the less the better.  And I did see that it shares the same liver enzyme as the others so you are right...not helpful especially when tapering.  Took a bit today and thought would try none tomorrow.  Have slowly been lowering it.  Today my eyes are pretty irritated though.  I see her again soon so will see what she says.  She recommended it as well as probiotics...FLoragen Digestive.  Have any thoughts about that MMT?

Thanks MMT....was reading about your garden and all...nice!  I miss all that! Thank you for your thoughts and help MMT!  Take care!💜

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Rabe

@manymoretodaysforgot to flag the above..again!  

I also wanted to ask you thought about omega 3 and magnesium...mainly omega three as food is so limited.  I need a pure non histamine source though so I dont know.  Thank you!

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Rabe

@brassmonkey  I know you have talked about steady state...7days?  Could you steer me to where that is regarding tapering and all.  I was wanting to reread it try to understand it better so as better try to know how to drop and how quickly.  Thank you...sorry to bother.  If I shouldn't be asking please just let me know.  Hope you are feeling better?

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wantrelief
7 hours ago, Rabe said:

I feel better...still allergyish but better

Oh this is such good news, Rabe!!  I am so glad you were able to do a taper of the Viibryd.  I hope it goes as smoothly as possible.  I am thinking about you - WR.

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

Hi Rabe,

Sounds like you may be venturing into some more learning then.  I would read up, if I were you.  And then I would carefully read the labels of any supplements before you try them.

I'm going to give you links, of course. 

BTW, I think that if, when you have time and clarity, I may have linked you to some steady state information earlier, right here in your introduction. Some many pages back I think.   I'm thinking that it may be found in the Tapering Section too.  Tapering FAQ's.  A pinned topic there.  You'd have to check the indexed posts list to find that more specific post.

For your recent Viibryd taper.  We would be going with the standard 4-7 days to reaching a new steady state with it.  7 days is good too.

And okay,  adding this:  you could even just review, the why taper by 10% link.  And it does discuss micro-tapers there too.  Somewhat similar to the brassmonkey slide.  The slide method is 2.5% tapers each week.  Then with a 2 week hold(I believe) after 4 of those.  Then calculating the taper again, based on the last dose drop, and doing another 4 weeks, with 2 week hold.  So, essentially.......you are tapering 10% of your previous dose, every 6 weeks.

 

Histamine food intolerance

Food sensitivities

And then there is the Beyond Meds blog too.  Which is great.  Use the indexed menu at the top and I'm sure you'll find some great stuff, that helps with your journey.  Nutrition is right up there, in the menu
Everything Matters: Beyond Meds

 

And more from GiaK:  Histamine Intolerance ;can be associated with folks getting psych diagnosis

 

 

 

And oh Rabe.  That's great!  You did another taper with the Viibryd.  If I were you, I'd get the next script, in hand for your next taper too.  Of Viibryd.  I know you have to take into account the compounding and all.  If it were me.  Heck, I'd keep going with Viibryd tapering.  I would.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited by manymoretodays

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DMV64

Hi Rabe!

stopping by to say hi and it looks like you are getting a lot of good suggestions and guidance. Hope you have a great day!

xoxo

DMV

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manymoretodays
On 7/29/2019 at 11:53 PM, Rabe said:

 She recommended it as well as probiotics...FLoragen Digestive.  Have any thoughts about that MMT?

 

On 7/29/2019 at 11:55 PM, Rabe said:

@manymoretodaysforgot to flag the above..again!  

I also wanted to ask you thought about omega 3 and magnesium...mainly omega three as food is so limited.  I need a pure non histamine source though so I dont know.  Thank you!

 

Hi Rabe,

And apologies for not attending to these questions.  I did see some of the comments in the omega 3 topic, that applied, on that question.  Try to avoid any citrus flavoring.  And then, start low and slooooowly work your way up.

On, the probiotics, I can't say I really have much experience with that.

 

I do think, however, that you might just go really cautiously, in adding anything in right now.  And then, never more than one new thing at a time, with observation(and notes).  Can the provider who recommended this, do any testing with you, as far as allergens go?

 

And then........you just made a taper change.  So you might want to just wait, so you can see how it goes, without any new additions or changes.

 

So sorry.......

Oh, the garden is overgrown!  B)  Almost hoping for hungry deer to come by.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

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Rabe
On 7/31/2019 at 2:56 PM, manymoretodays said:

And then........you just made a taper change.  So you might want to just wait, so you can see how it goes, without any new additions or changes.

Good idea MMT.  Thank you!  Hope you get that hungry deer!💜

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Rabe

@manymoretodays I reread The Brassmonkey Slide Method....still not sure of steady state.  What I have found is that soon after a taper  I feel really good...quite fast actually.  Im beginning to see this.  Too good.  I started on the 27th and had a good 4 days overall.  Yesterday some depression.

what has happened in the past then for me is sometime later is when my system crashes...1 1/2 to 2 weeks maybe?  Except that Viibryd drop initially from 10.  IDK what that was all about.  My friend said more of the ingredients might have been in that section of the pill I cut off which seemed absurd at the time but not so now.  

Im just trying to better understand steady state....if that is when your body is back to juset that...a steady state and you can move ahead.  Seems that is what BM is saying.  And it seems to be different in all ways for everyone.  

Guess Ill juste keep going and see how it goes here.  

Thank you MMT.  

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brassmonkey

Hi Rabe--  it looks like you may be getting some of the terminology mixed up.  Really easy because they sound very similar.

 

Steady State is talking about the concentration of the drug in the blood.  When we make a change in dosage there is a different amount of drug available to the body.  This causes the amount of drug in the blood to fluctuate up and down as the body uses some and we add some. It takes several doses/days for the drug to reach a constant level where input matches what is used. That level is called Steady State.

 

What is sounds like you're talking about is a combination of Stability and WDnormal.

 

Stability is when a persons symptoms even out to a constant level. No big swings in either direction up or down just a consistent feeling of blah.  After a reduction there will be a spike in symptoms.  This can start to happen the next day up to several week later.  This spike will work itself out and things will stabilize back into their normal pattern.  That pattern is referred to as WDnormal.

 

WDnormal is the way you feel on an average day. It is hard to judge on a daily basis because it is a "moving average" of your feelings and is used to track overall improvements.  If you can say "I feel better than I did a month ago" then there has been an improvement in your WDnormal.

 

When we are tapering Stability is the driving factor.  After a reduction is made we have to work our way through the spike of symptoms which indicates that body is confused and having to make changes to adjust to the different dosage.  Once that spike has passed there is still healing going on, even if we don't feel it.  We need to allow time for that healing to happen before we make the next reduction.  Which is why it is so important to hope after a reduction.  Once the body has stabilized and returned to WDnormal then we can make the next reduction.

 

I hope that helps clear things up.

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neroli

Hello dear PF

 

Thank you for dropping in with your kind message on my thread.

 

I hope you keep on managing to get your many conditions eased and keeping on with your incredibly strong resolve to push on and learn more.

 

Thinking of you with fond thoughts

 

Neroli 

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Rabe

@brassmonkey Thank you so much BM.  I was not understanding, read your post several times and it is clearer now. 

 

20 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Stability is when a persons symptoms even out to a constant level. No big swings in either direction up or down just a consistent feeling of blah.  After a reduction there will be a spike in symptoms.  This can start to happen the next day up to several week later.  This spike will work itself out and things will stabilize back into their normal pattern.  That pattern is referred to as WDnormal.

 

This really helped understand why CT and rapid tapers can be so awful...though I dont understand why some can just stop a drug.  

I think this is the most challenging because you have a taper plan, but dont really know when the symptom spike will occur.  Could even essentially not occur with the first taper or second etc, but then when they do it could be the effect of one or more drops hitting hard and continuing for quite some time.  

I guess that is the challenge...how much to drop how fast....how to know that.

 

Thank you again...I appreciate this so very much BM!!  Hope all is well with you!

 

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manymoretodays

Thanks Rabe.  Thanks brassmonkey.

On 8/2/2019 at 7:06 AM, Rabe said:

What I have found is that soon after a taper  I feel really good...quite fast actually.  Im beginning to see this.  Too good.  I started on the 27th and had a good 4 days overall.  Yesterday some depression.

what has happened in the past then for me is sometime later is when my system crashes...1 1/2 to 2 weeks maybe?  Except that Viibryd drop initially from 10.  IDK what that was all about.  My friend said more of the ingredients might have been in that section of the pill I cut off which seemed absurd at the time but not so now.  

Im just trying to better understand steady state....if that is when your body is back to juset that...a steady state and you can move ahead.  Seems that is what BM is saying.  And it seems to be different in all ways for everyone.  

Guess Ill juste keep going and see how it goes here.  

Yes, I remember this.  Hopefully no system crash in 1 1/2 to 2 weeks.  Maybe that was about your body telling you it does not like Viibryd too. 

Getting familiar with yourself here, is going to pay off, I think.

And then realizing that now, is not exactly the same as then.  You did okay with your last drop, of Viibryd, overall......as I recall.  So......no reason to not expect the same.  Sometimes overthinking it all......not so good.  4 good days!  Huge.

 

Oh, best Rabe,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

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DMV64
On 8/2/2019 at 9:06 AM, Rabe said:

steady state

So glad I just came across all this while checking in. Thinking of you, hoping your days will be  getting better and better ❤️

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Rosetta

(((Rabe)))

All my love, Rosetta

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neroli

Hello dear Rabe

 

You are a stellar supporter - popping in to say hello.  Thank you so much.

 

I'm pleased to hear that you are getting your drugs/allergies/food things maybe sorted out a bit and you have had a period of less allergy-ness.  That must be a bit of a break in the weather for you.

 

There've been some tough days of late and I get fatigued and my legs have been just so stiff and heavy, it doesn't help me to feel upbeat, so I've retreated a little.

 

I do hope you get to feel much better, you are such a trooper - we still definitely need Rabe around here.

 

much love my PF and the best of warm wishes

 

Neroli 💜

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Terry
On 8/2/2019 at 2:34 PM, brassmonkey said:

Stability is when a persons symptoms even out to a constant level. No big swings in either direction up or down just a consistent feeling of blah.  After a reduction there will be a spike in symptoms.  This can start to happen the next day up to several week later.  This spike will work itself out and things will stabilize back into their normal pattern.  That pattern is referred to as WDnormal.

 

My big fear is that WD normal will become Post WD normal.

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Rosetta

Hi, Rabe.  Missed you.  I'm home now recovering from the trip to see my mother.  I hope you are doing ok. -R

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Rabe

@Rosetta @neroli @DMV64 Thank you so much for stopping by.  I have had some rough days...coulc not take my daughters dog while they went up north so they didnt go.  I felt awful about it.  It takes a lot for me to not do these things...but I was so so fatigued and felt so ill mentally and physically that I would not.  Have not heard from her since.  Breaks my heart the effects of all this....really does.

Blessings to you all!!💜

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wantrelief

Hi Rabe - I am so glad you wrote....I've been thinking about you.  I am so sorry you've had some rough days.  I am also sorry you couldn't take your daughter's dog - I know how badly you feel when you can't do these kinds of things for your family. However,  I admire that you have good boundaries and know what you can and can't do, that you take care of yourself in this way.  It makes me very sad to hear that your daughter has not contacted you since you were honest about not being able to care for her dog.  I don't understand why she would treat you this way when you are ill.  I hope you experience some better days soon, Rabe....you so deserve them.

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neroli
4 hours ago, Rabe said:

but I was so so fatigued and felt so ill mentally and physically

 

Oh, dear Rabe, I see you have a case of the "downs" like me.

 

Let's hope we get a bit of a lift soon, eh?

 

love and best wishes, my PF

 

Neroli 💜

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Rosetta

Rabe,

 

I'm so sorry about the dog issue, etc.. I know that it's not so much about the dog or her trip.  It's about being unable to do what you want to do, but I think you know you can't care for a dog.  What if something happened to the dog?  You would feel worse about that.  It's very frustrating for her I'm sure, but at least you are being honest.  If you weren't and something happened to the dog, she would be very regretful.  Sometimes you have to say no to your children for their own good.  I'm glad you have that strength.

 

All my love, Rosetta

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DMV64
On 8/15/2019 at 10:40 PM, Rabe said:

.but I was so so fatigued

Boy oh boy can I relate to that feeling. I am exhausted most of the time. Still so drugged. I know I will eventually have some energy back as I continue to go through WD, but sometimes it really is heartbreaking. I feel like I am watching my life pass by.

: (

-DMV64

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Rabe

@wantrelief @neroli @Rosetta @DMV64

Wanted to thank you so so much for stopping.  I am struggling with my GI system and in general...but I do feel if that could improve things in general would improve.  Just day at a time.  Thank you again.  Love and hugs to you all!💜

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neroli

Hello Rabe

 

So nice of you to pop by and say hello.  You are so good at keeping people in your king thoughts and wishes and letting them know they are not forgotten.

 

Of course it's not good to hear that you are struggling and I wish I could sort out the GI for you.

 

All I can say is that you are a real trooper, so brave and just keeping on keeping on.

 

love and best wishes to you, my Pf

 

Neroli 💜

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Carmie

Hi Rabe, 

 

Just wanted to say thanks for dropping over to my thread. I’m sorry you’re having trouble with your GI tract, these meds certainly affect all sorts of things in our bodies, don’t they? Sending you big hugs🤗

 

 

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Rosetta

(((Rabe))). All my love, R

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wantrelief
On 8/23/2019 at 5:43 PM, Rabe said:

I am struggling with my GI system and in general

I am so sorry you are struggling, Rabe.  I am thinking about you and hoping you get a break very soon.  

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Rabe

Am going to drop the Viibryd to 8.25 tomorrow.  Hoping goes ok.  If can keep my system a bit more settled would be nice.  Hoping of best.  Love and hugs and gratitude to and for all!!💜

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wantrelief

I hope the drop goes as smoothly as possible, Rabe!  I will be thinking about you.  Thank you for your support on my thread.

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Rosetta

I'm thinking of you, too! Love, R

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Rabe

@Rosetta @wantrelief@Carmie @neroli @Carmie Wanted to thank you all for stopping by....as you know it means so very very much!  And I am so very grateful!

I dropped on the 29th...Thursday.  Today has been a really hard day.  Ears ringing off the hook, stomach upset, very tired, GI a mess, not hungry, anxious, muscles sore and tight....and really really depressed!  Oh well.  

My daughter and child were here yesterday and we walked quite a bit and all...so that took a lot as well.  Just resting essentially today except for short walk or 2...hoping to get one later.  Just feel really off.  When I try to do anything I feel there is no gas in the engine and I just feel stressed.

Supposed to go look at a condo tomorrow but its a long drive and I dont know that Ill be able to which will upset both the realtor and my daughter.  But each day is different so who knows...trying to go day at time.  Today has not been kind.

It was the second drop that threw me so the last time as well as I looked back...not sure why that is but its good to know I guess.

Thank you all again for you kindness and support in the midst of your own struggles.  Love and hugs to you all!!💜

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Rabe

And last two days have had such bad headaches!  Hoping all related to the Viibryd drop. SO tired!!  

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Rabe

What I believe is that dropping the Viibryd in and of itself is not as hard as the affect it has on the Clonazepam and even the Premarin....I noticed that when starting it and told the doctor at the hospital ... didnt matter.  I felt like I was lowering the Clonazepam when starting the Viibryd and now when coming off it I feel the same....and that is the hardest on my mind and my body i think.  

I think thats what is going on ...thats what it seems...but who knows.  It is like a double whammy.  Oh well....thank you to that doctor for "doing me a favor" and mandating the Viibryd.  😡 

I did eat some and took a short walk.  The rest of the day has been just trying to keep my mind busy enough to get through the day.  It will be a miracle if I get over to see the condo and my family...I could hardly go minute to minute here today....not sure anything else is possible right now.  The hardest part is cancelling the agent that shows the properties...he doesnt like it....either does my daughter.  But I have to take as beset care of myself as I can right now or I truly fall off the cliff and feed goes under the bridge too.  Talk about hard pills to swallow!  

Love to all!!  💜

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Rabe

It also makes me want to just drop it faster because it is so awful anyway.  The second psych doctor I saw with the help of my daughter said to stop it.  I told her what I was doing and she also said that it is painfully slow and will be unpleasant at any speed so better to get it over with so the body can heal.  Sometimes IDK....🤔

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