TreeElf: Prozac withdrawal

[TreeElf]

Hey all,

 

Thought I'd give a quick update. Things are GOOD, for the most part. Which is amazing. I've had a couple of weeks of mostly neutral or even positive days - carried on with driving lessons, booked my theory test, continued with that coaching course I was offered, went out to a funfair with family, spent time with an old school friend, did some writing, planned some things, meditated more, did some artwork. For the first time in a long time I felt real hope and excitement for the future. I know it is certainly not the end of the road for withdrawal and this is temporary, but I've enjoyed a good amount of it. Also been continuing seeing my somatic experiencing therapst and broke down to her one week, which I felt was a good thing - it's a sign I'm starting slowly to allow myself to be more vulnerable to her, which is important for healing.

 

Aside from that there have been tough moments, some sudden anxiety spikes (which were intense but I seemed to bounce back from quickly), still days of apathy or that awful intense boredom feeling sometimes, cut down on smoking weed (didn't take the diazepam) but haven't quite stopped yet, almost constant overthinking or racing thoughts, one day I didn't smoke and couldn't sleep which was worrying as I always sleep, far less ocd behaviours but still pretty prevalent, still don't go out for long periods as the insecurity/shame feelings are quite strong, but I've begun to push past it and reframe thoughts etc. Physically/cognitively, memory is a little better, less brain fog. Occasionaly tinnitus. General sensitivity to everything.

 

So yeah, pretty good going. Life is far from perfect and some days are really rough, but they are just that right now - some days. I see that as pretty 'normal'. It's nuts how quickly things change, I often start thinking 'was I being melodramatic and making it all up?' and then get very anxious and start obsessing about it. But I know by now that these intense changes are par for the course, so I don't expect it to always be easy.

 

At this point I'm considering tapering again by 0.1mg sometime in January. Want to get Christmas over with first. Wishing you all a week of healing x

[TreeElf]

Pre-Christmas update - not been on here a lot because it's been pretty okay. I've had some insight into that 'splitting', almost psychosis type stuff, that happens during a wave. It's like my OCD/black and white thinking mind at its most extreme. My mind seems to separate two realities that really should blend together, which is why the waves are so terrifying - I become a different person, my 'shadow' self even. It's what I've always dealt with but at a very extreme level. I've also noticed that the tools I use during a window to help myself are very different to the tools I use in a wave - the former requires positive actions/practices along with balancing measures, while the other requires deep surrender. Just have to remember that not all tools can be used for everything and to 'switch' when I need to.

 

Yesterday was tough, but not disastrous. I feel very lucky to have had such an easy time of it the past month or so. That awful episode back in Sept/Oct was the worst yet, and yet here I am. Some days/moments have been BETTER than even before meds. Crazy stuff.

 

I really don't want to get too comfy though. I agreed with my doctor to taper by 0.1mg, and I'm thinking it might be time soon so I'd like to have a plan in place. As I mentioned before I'm really stumped with numbers sometimes...on the bottle it says 20mg/5ml, and I currently take 5mg/1.25ml. So would that mean I now reduce to 4.9mg? And what is that in ml? @brassmonkey I know you helped me with this last time, I'd be very grateful for your assistance again! 😛

 

Wishing you all healing and peace over the Christmas period x

 

[brassmonkey]

That would be 1.225mL.  

 

Reducing 5 mgai to 4.9mgai is a 2% reduction.  So you would reduce the volume of your dose by the same amount 1.25 X .98 = 1.225

 

It might be a good idea to wait until after the holidays to do the reduction.  There is always so much going on and a lot of emotions flying around at this time of year that having the taper thrown in on top of it all might not be the best thing to do.

[TreeElf]

9 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

That would be 1.225mL.  

 

Reducing 5 mgai to 4.9mgai is a 2% reduction.  So you would reduce the volume of your dose by the same amount 1.25 X .98 = 1.225

 

It might be a good idea to wait until after the holidays to do the reduction.  There is always so much going on and a lot of emotions flying around at this time of year that having the taper thrown in on top of it all might not be the best thing to do.

 

You truly are a maths whizz, I don't even get that 😂 lol. But thank you.. Crikey that does seem like a very specific measure to get on the syringe. I use a 1ml one, so now it'll be one full one plus 2 and two and a half lines, right? 

 

And I think you're right about waiting til after xmas. I'm keen to start tapering as I've been on this dose for about six months, but I may have some 'withdrawal amnesia'... Forgetting how bad it actually was before. Kind of like the way women release that hormone after childbirth so they forget the pain and keep having babies haha. So yes, patience is the better option. Thanks again, appreciate your help

[Songbird]

If you have Excel (or Open Office) you can use a spreadsheet to calculate your doses.  See: how-to-calculate-dosages-and-dilutions-spreadsheets-and-calculators

 

Click on one of the two files called dose_weights_SA.  You can use the weight column to calculate your dose in ml (instead of grams).  It doesn't matter that it's ml instead of gram, the maths is the same.

 

For "dose of one whole pill" (orange cell) enter 20.   For "weight" (turquoise cell) enter 5.  (Those two columns give you your 20mg per 5ml liquid).

For "desired starting dose" (bright yellow cell) enter 5 (that's your current dose).  In the green cell enter 2 for 2% dose reductions.

Then all the pale turquoise cells will show you the ml you need for each dose drop.

 

If you prefer to do 0.1mg reductions rather than a percentage, go to the second worksheet (click on "dose weights with mg reduction" at the bottom), enter the same figures as above, except for the green cell where you enter 0.1 for the 0.1mg reductions.

[Cleerity]

7 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Some days/moments have been BETTER than even before meds

 

Here's wishing you experience a lot more of these good periods.  And, eventually, more permanently!  

[TreeElf]

14 hours ago, Songbird said:

If you have Excel (or Open Office) you can use a spreadsheet to calculate your doses.  See: how-to-calculate-dosages-and-dilutions-spreadsheets-and-calculators

 

Click on one of the two files called dose_weights_SA.  You can use the weight column to calculate your dose in ml (instead of grams).  It doesn't matter that it's ml instead of gram, the maths is the same.

 

For "dose of one whole pill" (orange cell) enter 20.   For "weight" (turquoise cell) enter 5.  (Those two columns give you your 20mg per 5ml liquid).

For "desired starting dose" (bright yellow cell) enter 5 (that's your current dose).  In the green cell enter 2 for 2% dose reductions.

Then all the pale turquoise cells will show you the ml you need for each dose drop.

 

If you prefer to do 0.1mg reductions rather than a percentage, go to the second worksheet (click on "dose weights with mg reduction" at the bottom), enter the same figures as above, except for the green cell where you enter 0.1 for the 0.1mg reductions.

 

This is very helpful Songbird, thank you. I'll check that file out soon in prep for tapering in Jan. Much appreciated!

 

14 hours ago, Cleerity said:

 

Here's wishing you experience a lot more of these good periods.  And, eventually, more permanently!  

 

Thank you Cleerity, best wishes to you x

[TreeElf]

Hi guys,

 

This past week I'd been intending to write an update about how much things had leveled out. I felt like I was balancing, was getting out quite a lot, started doing bits of work again, feeling optimistic and excited for the future. I also had an encounter with a guy who I was running the online course I was doing, who turned out to be what I suspect is a psychopath. This was actually a helpful experience, I spotted it very quickly and realised that this had appeared in my life as part of me beginning to face my worst fears. It felt liberating, I observed the situation and it was easy to simply walk away without judgment.

 

Then yesterday things collapsed. This past year I developed an OCD fear of being a narcissist. Identity crisis has been at the route of all of this, and also pretty much all my previous mental issues. I know rationally I'm not psychopathic, what concerns me is that ultimately I know I'm not the person I often present myself as. My sense of self is completely skewed, and pretty much non existent. On the one hand, I know I am very sensitive and intuitive in some ways. I always thought of myself as a good, compassionate person with high empathy and intelligence. However, since all the meditation etc, I've started to see that this is not entirely true. I'm not the person I thought I was, although I don't know how far that goes and what part OCD has to play in this.

 

It's very hard for me to admit this, but I've realised that I have always had many of the following traits (anyone who knows me would clarify this too): a quiet sense of superiority (particularly with those closest to me), covert manipulation by being 'ill' a lot or being emotionally distressed, an inability to be vulnerable in front of people, episodes of nasty rage, jekhyl and hyde type behaviour, being a total know-it-all, never being able to be wrong, belittling my mother and younger siblings, being emotionally melodramatic and swinging from narcissism to self-loathing, telling little lies a lot, justifying my behaviour and therefore having everyone think I am just a 'complex, tormented' soul, being passive aggressive, covert attention seeking, a terrible martyr complex, and probably more. The worst thing is, I don't think I've ever been able to be completely open, honest and vulnerable to anyone in person my whole life. The terror comes from knowing I can't properly connect with anyone, ultimately without that you'll just go crazy, become nastier, or die by suicide.

 

This has disturbed me so much and has been going in cycles of fear, shame and ocd obsessing as to how bad it is, to denial and blocking it out, to just trying to get on with things and sometimes forgetting about it completely. Even so, as soon as I'm around others again I notice how these horrible, vicious traits seem to surface. My empathy in general is low because I've been in so much pain, I don't know how to deal with other people's emotional stuff. I also have periods since reducing the medication of severe apathy, not feeling or caring about anything. Sometimes I can visibly see how uncomfortable people get around me, I know it must be pretty toxic. I tend to isolate a lot, which both helps and hinders.

 

I did also read that it is not uncommon for people who believe they are empaths to actually be on the narcissistic spectrum. Being highly sensitive doesn't automatically equate to empathy. It feels like all my obsessive self analysis and absorption has made me just someone who can't be honest, and a covert narcissist. All of the ways I behave are of this nature, in fact I don't see how I could NOT be one. It also seems to run in my family (my brother is a borderline psychopath, and my sister is pretty narcissistic). The worst thing is I did always on some level believe I was a better person than them, but with honest reflection I'm not. The only difference is I'm not obvious about it in the way they are.

It feels like I'm getting towards the truth, but at the same time I feel on the verge of complete mental collapse or psychosis. I have episodes of just having to hide away and cry, feeling dissociated, disgusted with myself. I simply can't face people because the act just starts all over again, to varying degrees. I can only tell people on the internet, I couldn't say this face to face. Not even to my therapist. Yet a part of me craves authenticity. I just don't know how I could have deceived myself this much. But at the same time I think I've known this on some level all along, I just became fixated on reassuring myself I was 'good'. It's all my life really revolves around, getting different forms of validation that I'm good.

 

I can't even explain properly the pain of this. The past day/night I've 100% told myself that I am a covert narcissist and feel like this was the truth all along, that coming off the meds just revealed it. I don't see how it's not true or how I can ever possibly heal in any way, because I simply cannot connect honestly with others. I can't tell this to anyone, I'll try with my therapist but it comes out filtered and not really authentic. The shame is literally killing me. And from what I know people like this don't get better, usually worse. I do know I've become increasingly more paranoid and withdrawn, and I'm terrified that this is only going to end in suicide. I truly don't believe I deserve help or am capable of changing if this is what I am, and that if I try to reach out it'll just be another form of manipulation. How do I live with myself?

 

Sorry for the length of this, I don't know where to turn. I hate to use absolute terms or fatalistic language, because I know it's not helpful usually. But I honestly don't see a way out of this, and I think I've just horribly deceived myself for a long time. Maybe my whole life. The only option really and truly feels like death, but at the same time I don't want that. Again that's probably my own selfishness. This has been an issue from before medication, so I also think I might have just used the withdrawal thing as a form of attention seeking or to deny these issues. Even the fact that I always thought of myself as the honest one in my family is definitely untrue, I can't tolerate facing myself. Yet I constantly preach to my mum and sister about their issues and how they won't face them. I feel like a total fraud.

 

 

[eymen23]

AbbyElfie,

 

I’m sorry to hear you are suffering with everything you noted above. It does seem like you are being hard on yourself, and we all do that from time to time. 

 

Although I’m sure there are elements of truth in what you said above, you are likely worrying to the point this seems more urgent and important than it really is. Try to remember that we are all human in this life, and we do the best we can in each moment. I am yet to meet anybody who is ‘perfect’ or anything remotely close. There is nothing wrong with not being able to deal with other people’s problems, we can only process and deal with so much, and if we are suffering our own issues then our capacity to help others is reduced. 

 

Reading through your post above I’m noticing a lot of labels, self-diagnoses, and  analysis to the point of confusion, exhaustion and suffering. The ‘myself’ of today and right now, is not the same ‘myself’ as of tomorrow or even later today. For example, I could be considered a very kind, calm and compassionate person, but if somebody were to slap me I might appear to be an angry and violent person. That ‘myself’ is ever changing, and although it’s important to spot patterns and traits as part of psychotherapy, overanalysing tends to reduce the complex and ever-changing ‘myself’ into a permanent label or diagnosis. 

 

I also struggle with overanalysing and OCD type thinking at times. My experience has been that you can’t think your way out of it, the same way somebody with germ-OCD can’t wash their hands enough times to eliminate the fear of germs. Although some of the analysis you’re doing may be useful, when it starts to become all consuming, I’d recommend using mindfulness and/or positive distraction to bring your attention away from the overanalysing. Have you tried that? (Sorry I’ve not read your entire intro).

 

I hope some of what I’ve said is helpful. 

 

[TreeElf]

1 minute ago, eymen23 said:

Reading through your post above I’m noticing a lot of labels, self-diagnoses, and  analysis to the point of confusion, exhaustion and suffering. The ‘myself’ of today and right now, is not the same ‘myself’ as the tomorrow or even later today. For example, I could be considered a very kind, calm and compassionate person, but if somebody were to slap me I might appear to be an angry and violent person. That ‘myself’ is ever changing, and although it’s important to spot patterns and traits as part of psychotherapy, overanalysing tends to reduce the complex and ever-changing ‘myself’ into a permanent label or diagnosis. 

 

I also struggle with overanalysing and OCD type thinking at times. My experience has been that you can’t think your way out of it, the same way somebody with germ-OCD can’t wash their hands enough times to eliminate the fear of germs. Although some of the analysis you’re doing may be useful, when it starts to become all consuming, I’d recommend using mindfulness and/or positive distraction to bring your attention away from the overanalysing. Have you tried that? (Sorry I’ve not read your entire intro)

 

Thanks for your reply @eymen23. I agree I'm obsessively analytical, it's really out of control these days. Having been in severe ocd cycles for many years, a part of me knows there is no way to out-think this stuff. It's just impossible. Yet my mind won't stop, from the second I wake up. I did a lot of meditation practice for around 2 years, which brought up some things. Since withdrawal started I tried to continue my practice with it, but it's been sporadic. I can't meditate or use mindfulness in the way I used to. I did for a while recently, but now this has happened I just don't think there's anything I can do except surrender as much as possible.

It feels ridiculous to self analyse like this. I'm also paranoid to the point of obsessively analysing my family and if they're 'good' or 'bad', which again is a pointless pursuit. All because I can't seem to come to terms with my own dark side. Appreciate you taking the time to respond

[eymen23]

2 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

 I did a lot of meditation practice for around 2 years, which brought up some things. Since withdrawal started I tried to continue my practice with it, but it's been sporadic. I can't meditate or use mindfulness in the way I used to. I did for a while recently, but now this has happened I just don't think there's anything I can do except surrender as much as possible.

 

I can definitely relate to this. Back in 2015 I practiced meditation/mindfulness very regularly and reaped a lot of benefits, far beyond what I could have expected (although as you'll be aware, it can also be a scary path to tread). Since things went downhill with my emotional state, mindfulness has become a way to survive, rather than a deepening practice. Hopefully, as things improve we can start to get back to that place of tranquillity, equanimity and awareness.

 

6 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

It feels ridiculous to self analyse like this. I'm also paranoid to the point of obsessively analysing my family and if they're 'good' or 'bad', which again is a pointless pursuit. All because I can't seem to come to terms with my own dark side. Appreciate you taking the time to respond

 

It sounds like your symptoms at present involve a lot of 'moral' obsessive thoughts. Who is good or bad. Weighing up this behaviour or trait, then countering it with another behaviour or trait, and the cycle goes on and on. Sorry you're having to deal with that in such an intense form. I see that back in late November you posted about having more positive days and moments, so I'm hopeful a lot of this obsessing and overanalysing is due to the 'windows and waves' of withdrawal. Hang in there

 

Welcome to PM me if you ever want to talk more.

[Cleerity]

Hi Abby!  

 

It's good to hear from you!  I was wondering how you are doing. 

 

I know you know that we can be our own worst critics and that it takes time to develop a strong, positive, compassionate, inner loving-self/voice.  

 

You know, I think most things in life are both/and ... rarely every as black and white and either/or.   

 

I think some amount of narcissism is normal and healthy.  An example from my own life is that due to early life pain and abuse, I actually learned to think so terribly of myself that I coped by donning a suit of bravado, an armor of confidence, an air that said, "I am better than __________" (whatever or whoever, fill in the blank).  Because of the poor treatment from my parents and family, I truly felt worthless inside.  But it was the survivor strength/adaptation that enabled me to believe in myself in life and gave me the ability to put one step in front of the other as I walked through terrible times.  Without this bit of narcissism, my ego-self (my persona/me) would have been crushed before I even got started.  If we can find the "why" of our donning various airs/personas, we can find the pain that needs to be healed and, thus, merge the opposing aspects of ourselves.  The merging is little more than truly owning/"accepting" the many parts/aspects of our selves.  I am both love and hate.  I am both joy and sadness.  I am both peace and rage.  Etc.  The hardest part is in "going-through" the painful emotions, shedding the tears, embracing (truly loving and embracing) the hard/hurt parts of ourselves.  We all like the love and joy and peace, but not the hate and sadness and rage.  

 

This piece from Wikipedia on Enantidromia may be helpful for you right now:

 

Quote

Enantiodromia (Ancient Greek: ἐνάντιος,, translit. enantios – opposite and δρόμος, dromos – running course) is a principle introduced in the West by psychiatrist Carl Jung. In Psychological Types, Jung defines enantiodromia as "the emergence of the unconscious opposite in the course of time. This characteristic phenomenon practically always occurs when an extreme, one-sided tendency dominates conscious life; in time an equally powerful counterposition is built up which first inhibits the conscious performance and subsequently breaks through the conscious control."^[1] It is similar to the principle of equilibrium in the natural world, in that any extreme is opposed by the system in order to restore balance. When things get to their extreme, they turn into their opposite. However, in Jungian terms, a thing psychically transmogrifies into its shadowopposite, in the repression of psychic forces that are thereby cathected into something powerful and threatening. This principle was explicitly understood and discussed in the principles of traditional Chinese religion – as in Taoism and yin-yang. A central premise of the I Ching is that yang lines become yin when they have reached their extreme, and vice versa. [2]

 

I think that if you can allow yourself to be raw and vulnerable with your therapist, sharing with her what you have shared here, she/he may be able to help guide you through what you are experiencing ... and perhaps allay some of your fear by also reassuring that you are not a textbook narcissist or psychopath.  I think you are far too reflective and insightful for that to be true.  

 

I have been through some powerful and frightening periods of enantiodromia.  Long-suffering and loving patience always wins in balancing the opposites.  Along with our willing honesty (you ARE honest!) and acceptance, time and love heal.

 

Always best wishes ...  Cleerity

[Orangeblossom77]

Something I thought might help a little. as have beaten myself up about things too, sometimes. Even if we are sometimes not as empathic, or good, etc as we think we should be, maybe that doesn't define someone and make them a 'bad' person. Maybe, it just makes them human. 

[powerback]

6 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Hi guys,

 

This past week I'd been intending to write an update about how much things had leveled out. I felt like I was balancing, was getting out quite a lot, started doing bits of work again, feeling optimistic and excited for the future. I also had an encounter with a guy who I was running the online course I was doing, who turned out to be what I suspect is a psychopath. This was actually a helpful experience, I spotted it very quickly and realised that this had appeared in my life as part of me beginning to face my worst fears. It felt liberating, I observed the situation and it was easy to simply walk away without judgment.

 

Then yesterday things collapsed. This past year I developed an OCD fear of being a narcissist. Identity crisis has been at the route of all of this, and also pretty much all my previous mental issues. I know rationally I'm not psychopathic, what concerns me is that ultimately I know I'm not the person I often present myself as. My sense of self is completely skewed, and pretty much non existent. On the one hand, I know I am very sensitive and intuitive in some ways. I always thought of myself as a good, compassionate person with high empathy and intelligence. However, since all the meditation etc, I've started to see that this is not entirely true. I'm not the person I thought I was, although I don't know how far that goes and what part OCD has to play in this.

 

It's very hard for me to admit this, but I've realised that I have always had many of the following traits (anyone who knows me would clarify this too): a quiet sense of superiority (particularly with those closest to me), covert manipulation by being 'ill' a lot or being emotionally distressed, an inability to be vulnerable in front of people, episodes of nasty rage, jekhyl and hyde type behaviour, being a total know-it-all, never being able to be wrong, belittling my mother and younger siblings, being emotionally melodramatic and swinging from narcissism to self-loathing, telling little lies a lot, justifying my behaviour and therefore having everyone think I am just a 'complex, tormented' soul, being passive aggressive, covert attention seeking, a terrible martyr complex, and probably more. The worst thing is, I don't think I've ever been able to be completely open, honest and vulnerable to anyone in person my whole life. The terror comes from knowing I can't properly connect with anyone, ultimately without that you'll just go crazy, become nastier, or die by suicide.

 

This has disturbed me so much and has been going in cycles of fear, shame and ocd obsessing as to how bad it is, to denial and blocking it out, to just trying to get on with things and sometimes forgetting about it completely. Even so, as soon as I'm around others again I notice how these horrible, vicious traits seem to surface. My empathy in general is low because I've been in so much pain, I don't know how to deal with other people's emotional stuff. I also have periods since reducing the medication of severe apathy, not feeling or caring about anything. Sometimes I can visibly see how uncomfortable people get around me, I know it must be pretty toxic. I tend to isolate a lot, which both helps and hinders.

 

I did also read that it is not uncommon for people who believe they are empaths to actually be on the narcissistic spectrum. Being highly sensitive doesn't automatically equate to empathy. It feels like all my obsessive self analysis and absorption has made me just someone who can't be honest, and a covert narcissist. All of the ways I behave are of this nature, in fact I don't see how I could NOT be one. It also seems to run in my family (my brother is a borderline psychopath, and my sister is pretty narcissistic). The worst thing is I did always on some level believe I was a better person than them, but with honest reflection I'm not. The only difference is I'm not obvious about it in the way they are.

It feels like I'm getting towards the truth, but at the same time I feel on the verge of complete mental collapse or psychosis. I have episodes of just having to hide away and cry, feeling dissociated, disgusted with myself. I simply can't face people because the act just starts all over again, to varying degrees. I can only tell people on the internet, I couldn't say this face to face. Not even to my therapist. Yet a part of me craves authenticity. I just don't know how I could have deceived myself this much. But at the same time I think I've known this on some level all along, I just became fixated on reassuring myself I was 'good'. It's all my life really revolves around, getting different forms of validation that I'm good.

 

I can't even explain properly the pain of this. The past day/night I've 100% told myself that I am a covert narcissist and feel like this was the truth all along, that coming off the meds just revealed it. I don't see how it's not true or how I can ever possibly heal in any way, because I simply cannot connect honestly with others. I can't tell this to anyone, I'll try with my therapist but it comes out filtered and not really authentic. The shame is literally killing me. And from what I know people like this don't get better, usually worse. I do know I've become increasingly more paranoid and withdrawn, and I'm terrified that this is only going to end in suicide. I truly don't believe I deserve help or am capable of changing if this is what I am, and that if I try to reach out it'll just be another form of manipulation. How do I live with myself?

 

Sorry for the length of this, I don't know where to turn. I hate to use absolute terms or fatalistic language, because I know it's not helpful usually. But I honestly don't see a way out of this, and I think I've just horribly deceived myself for a long time. Maybe my whole life. The only option really and truly feels like death, but at the same time I don't want that. Again that's probably my own selfishness. This has been an issue from before medication, so I also think I might have just used the withdrawal thing as a form of attention seeking or to deny these issues. Even the fact that I always thought of myself as the honest one in my family is definitely untrue, I can't tolerate facing myself. Yet I constantly preach to my mum and sister about their issues and how they won't face them. I feel like a total fraud.

 

 

OMG Abbyelfie ,bless your soul for your honesty .

I'm in a similar boat .introspection over the years has gone a bit toxic on me ,I have understood some of my previous behaviour and thus I am now in a toxic place of sometimes despising myself .granted this process with the meds makes it a lot lot  worse ,I have extreme toxic guilt.

 

Im exhausted at the moment but I wanted to reply and say writing such a piece like this is a big help to others .

Ide love to touch base again sometime with you ,we are definitely going through a lot of similar "issues".

 

your OCD has definitely obsessed over all this and its intense feelings at the moment.

give yourself permission to relax and don't think of anything for a while ,sooth yourself .

The world is full of serious dangerous people ,you are not one of them because dangerous narcs are not this insightful .

Even Freud and  young were no angels .

We are definitely in a crisis of identity ,this process is guaranteed to cause upheaval.

Please be nice to yourself at this time .   

Take care . 

  

[TreeElf]

6 hours ago, eymen23 said:

 

I can definitely relate to this. Back in 2015 I practiced meditation/mindfulness very regularly and reaped a lot of benefits, far beyond what I could have expected (although as you'll be aware, it can also be a scary path to tread). Since things went downhill with my emotional state, mindfulness has become a way to survive, rather than a deepening practice. Hopefully, as things improve we can start to get back to that place of tranquillity, equanimity and awareness.

 

It sounds like your symptoms at present involve a lot of 'moral' obsessive thoughts. Who is good or bad. Weighing up this behaviour or trait, then countering it with another behaviour or trait, and the cycle goes on and on. Sorry you're having to deal with that in such an intense form. I see that back in late November you posted about having more positive days and moments, so I'm hopeful a lot of this obsessing and overanalysing is due to the 'windows and waves' of withdrawal. Hang in there

 

Welcome to PM me if you ever want to talk more. 

 

I appreciate that, thank you. And you're spot on about the moral obsessive stuff. Today was pretty surreal, but the panic has calmed down. I can't imagine feeling the way I did before, it feels like a lie. But trying not to focus on it. Just taking one minute at a time.

 

6 hours ago, Cleerity said:

I think that if you can allow yourself to be raw and vulnerable with your therapist, sharing with her what you have shared here, she/he may be able to help guide you through what you are experiencing ... and perhaps allay some of your fear by also reassuring that you are not a textbook narcissist or psychopath.  I think you are far too reflective and insightful for that to be true.  

 

I have been through some powerful and frightening periods of enantiodromia.  Long-suffering and loving patience always wins in balancing the opposites.  Along with our willing honesty (you ARE honest!) and acceptance, time and love heal.

 

It was helpful, thank you. I really hope I can be open with my therapist next week, it all seems to come out inaccurate and I tense up, only giving intellectualised versions of things. But I'll try. I'm constantly in conflict over whether I'm kidding myself, or don't have the capacity for self compassion. I'll reply to your pm in a minute. Good to hear from you too.

[TreeElf]

2 hours ago, Orangeblossom77 said:

Something I thought might help a little. as have beaten myself up about things too, sometimes. Even if we are sometimes not as empathic, or good, etc as we think we should be, maybe that doesn't define someone and make them a 'bad' person. Maybe, it just makes them human.

 

I really hope this is the case. I'm never certain if I'm just rationalising things, over or underestimating this 'badness'. Thank you for this.

 

1 hour ago, powerback said:

I'm in a similar boat .introspection over the years has gone a bit toxic on me ,I have understood some of my previous behaviour and thus I am now in a toxic place of sometimes despising myself .granted this process with the meds makes it a lot lot  worse ,I have extreme toxic guilt.

 

Im exhausted at the moment but I wanted to reply and say writing such a piece like this is a big help to others .

Ide love to touch base again sometime with you ,we are definitely going through a lot of similar "issues".

 

Thank you pb, I'll respond to your pm soon. The extreme guilt is very toxic, would be good to talk about this. I hope you're doing ok.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, AbbyElfie said:

I really hope I can be open with my therapist next week, it all seems to come out inaccurate and I tense up, only giving intellectualised versions of things.

 

You might find it helpful to jot down some notes and take those along to refer to.  That way there is less chance of you getting stressed out and upset because you can't remember what you wanted to says, or can't word it the way you want to.  You can work out what things you want to discuss and can list them in order of importance with some notes/key words/thoughts alongside each of them to prompt your memory.

[Cleerity]

1 hour ago, AbbyElfie said:

It was helpful, thank you. I really hope I can be open with my therapist next week, it all seems to come out inaccurate and I tense up, only giving intellectualised versions of things. But I'll try. I'm constantly in conflict over whether I'm kidding myself, or don't have the capacity for self compassion.

 

I see Chessie Cat also just made a suggestion, just as I was about to say that maybe you could read the first post you made here today to your therapist.   

 

I think self-compassion is a muscle that we learn to develop over time.   

[TreeElf]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

You might find it helpful to jot down some notes and take those along to refer to.  That way there is less chance of you getting stressed out and upset because you can't remember what you wanted to says, or can't word it the way you want to.  You can work out what things you want to discuss and can list them in order of importance with some notes/key words/thoughts alongside each of them to prompt your memory.

 

Good idea, thank you.

 

1 hour ago, Cleerity said:

I see Chessie Cat also just made a suggestion, just as I was about to say that maybe you could read the first post you made here today to your therapist.   

 

 

Also a good idea, I'll try and find the courage to do this.

[Orangeblossom77]

Have you tried mindfulness? Recognising all this thinking as just that- thoughts, and not having to believe it, or think it is 'true' can be helpful.

Treating it and the emotions like the weather, for example. gives a bit of distance from it. I think of my mind as a grumpy chatterbox at times, 

and some of the daft stuff it thinks! Having a bit of humour about it might help also, at times! Kind thoughts, it's not easy.

[TreeElf]

3 hours ago, Orangeblossom77 said:

Have you tried mindfulness? Recognising all this thinking as just that- thoughts, and not having to believe it, or think it is 'true' can be helpful.

Treating it and the emotions like the weather, for example. gives a bit of distance from it. I think of my mind as a grumpy chatterbox at times, 

and some of the daft stuff it thinks! Having a bit of humour about it might help also, at times! Kind thoughts, it's not easy.

 

Hi Orangeblossom, thanks for your suggestion. I've done a lot of mindfulness and meditation, practice and retreats, I had to step back from it a bit last year as I think I did a bit too much. I used mindful breathing a lot, and gently meditative inquiry, although during an episode like this it all goes completely out the window. None of my previous tools or techniques apply because I am in a state of complete terror and paranoia, none of that seems real or like I'm 'allowed' to do it. Hard to explain. Humour definitely helps though.

[TreeElf]

Hi guys, just a quick update to say that since the start of the new year lots of great changes have been happening. Like coming out of a bad dream and up for air, spiritually, emotionally, physically. This withdrawal is coinciding with an overall huge awakening and 'growing up', so big transformations all round. Some days are really tough, but I've again had a glimpse of the bigger picture and it's all good. For anybody struggling at the moment please hang on, you wouldn't believe the little miracles that are around every corner. Keeping a simple gratitude diary, noting three things every morning, has helped shift things quite a lot. Combined with exercise, getting back into the things I enjoyed in childhood (reading, drawing, learning), meditation, questioning all of my long held beliefs, embracing more change, and also the help of a close friend who I will be doing shamanic work with soon. I seem to be one of those people who, in withdrawal at least, swing rapidly from despair to bliss. After over a year of this, the swings get easier to manage because you know neither is going to last long. It really is just about riding the waves as best you can.

 

I am still at 5mg. Planning to reduce by 0.1mg in February (after my driving test). Will update accordingly. I appreciate being able to write here, it will be fascinating to go back at some point and read all the crazy ups and downs. Hoping you're all doing well and see much more healing this year x

[pinkfairy]

Hi 

just stopping by to say hello.

you should be so proud of your self you have come along away...

❤️

[TreeElf]

1 hour ago, pinkfairy said:

Hi 

just stopping by to say hello.

you should be so proud of your self you have come along away...

❤️

 

Hi pinkfairy, thank you for stopping by. That's really sweet, I hope everyone here sees the same healing and soon! x

[eymen23]

Very glad to hear of some relief and healing. Hope it continues and that the taper goes smooth.

 

Good luck on the driving too! 

[pinkfairy]

46 minutes ago, AbbyElfie said:

 

Hi pinkfairy, thank you for stopping by. That's really sweet, I hope everyone here sees the same healing and soon! x

Thank you 🙏🏻 

xx

[Gato123]

Hi @AbbyElfie, I hope you are doing better than the last few posts. I don't have a lot of time to write at the moment but wanted to say a couple things:

 

1) Hang in there. I know this is SO hard. I identified with a lot of what you're saying. I am not "out of the woods" just yet but I KNOW this is from these drugs and I've spoken to enough people who have successfully survived this.

2) Birth control can DEFINITELY cause mental issues. I started taking birth control for a shrot while once when I was 16-17 and then again when I was 23 and both times I became clinically depressed after each time. 

3) Thank you so much for sharing your journey about tapering and reinstating. It is really really helpful.

 

 

 

 

[TreeElf]

On 1/26/2019 at 6:57 PM, eymen23 said:

Very glad to hear of some relief and healing. Hope it continues and that the taper goes smooth.

 

Good luck on the driving too! 

 

Thank you! Appreciate the support.

 

On 1/26/2019 at 7:44 PM, Gato123 said:

Hi @AbbyElfie, I hope you are doing better than the last few posts. I don't have a lot of time to write at the moment but wanted to say a couple things:

 

1) Hang in there. I know this is SO hard. I identified with a lot of what you're saying. I am not "out of the woods" just yet but I KNOW this is from these drugs and I've spoken to enough people who have successfully survived this.

2) Birth control can DEFINITELY cause mental issues. I started taking birth control for a shrot while once when I was 16-17 and then again when I was 23 and both times I became clinically depressed after each time. 

3) Thank you so much for sharing your journey about tapering and reinstating. It is really really helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this! Really, it helps so much to know I'm not crazy. I do have a tendency towards obsession and paranoia, so I've struggled to discern whether it's me or that there really is a sinister system in place here. I'm doing really well since the start of the year, I'm glad sharing the journey is beneficial to others. Many stories from others have helped me too. The more time goes on the more I believe I have been essentially lobotomized the past ten years, or there is just a big awakening going on in general. I'm ready to leave the old me in the past. Thanks again, I'm confident you will be out of the woods and living the life you want, and sooner than you think! x

[TreeElf]

Quick update - things are rapidly improving each day. Hang in there if you're struggling, happiness is always on a step away. We just can't see it in a down cycle. I obviously still have some fear about having a dip, but right now I'm making the most of all this great change.

Few things that have significantly helped in a short space of time:

 

kundalini yoga - every morning, huge difference even after the first day. And/or half an hour of high pace exercise first thing.

Standing under freezing cold shower after your normal shower every morning, for 3-5 seconds or however long you can. This was recommended to me by a lovely holistic doctor, it helps to rapidly strengthen the nervous system. Feels amazing and sets you up for the day.

Every morning when you wake up, laying on your back across the bed and letting your head hand off the edge, quite far down so it's almost below the shoulders. This was also recommended by the doctor. Letting the blood flow and pushing the energy towards your brain, helps mood, functions, and prevents dementia.

EFT tapping - look it up. Just started this today and it immediately helped with a chronic back spasm issue.

 

Just a few of the tools that have helped lately. I hope someone finds them useful. Will be back to update again x

[eymen23]

Hi Abbie,

 

It’s wonderful to hear such a positive update from you. Those are some great tips for self care too, thanks for sharing those with us.

 

Take care! 

[pinkfairy]

Fantastic things are on the up.

sorry I noticed you said eft.

Theres a world tapping solution on starts 25 of February 

its free to join.Xx

[Gato123]

Hi @AbbyElfie, I have been trying to follow your journey but my brain fog is making it a little challenging...

 

In a nutshell,

 

You were in a bad place and reinstated to 1 mg?

Why did you go up to 5mg?

How long have you been on 5mg?

 

I am contemplating going back to the doctor this coming week and asking to reinstate. I stopped Prozac in April 2018 and by September I was in a horrific crash that is still continuing. 

[TreeElf]

Thank you for your replies, glad it was helpful. @pinkfairy I think that's the one I saw advertised today, it looks good and I hope to catch it.

@Gato123 sorry to hear you're in a bad way. I was having a bad time a year ago, went to 2mg, then 1.8mg. Had a severe crash in May and updosed to 5mg which I've been on ever since. So about 9 months. 

[India]

3 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Thank you for your replies, glad it was helpful. @pinkfairy I think that's the one I saw advertised today, it looks good and I hope to catch it.

@Gato123 sorry to hear you're in a bad way. I was having a bad time a year ago, went to 2mg, then 1.8mg. Had a severe crash in May and updosed to 5mg which I've been on ever since. So about 9 months. 

Hello @AbbyElfie do you consider this the lowest dose you will be able to go to? I am on 6mg and although I am having windows i am functioning at about 25%. Early ct/withdrawal was 0% so it's an improvement but still not fully living.. I'm not able to updose as I had a bad reaction.  Interested in your situation.

[India]

3 hours ago, Gato123 said:

Hi @AbbyElfie, I have been trying to follow your journey but my brain fog is making it a little challenging...

 

In a nutshell,

 

You were in a bad place and reinstated to 1 mg?

Why did you go up to 5mg?

How long have you been on 5mg?

 

I am contemplating going back to the doctor this coming week and asking to reinstate. I stopped Prozac in April 2018 and by September I was in a horrific crash that is still continuing. 

Amazing and horrifying to think it can hit much later. Mine hit after 4 weeks but @withhopeinmyheart crashed a few months after. Oh, how I wish there were long term studies on this. Still, in a way, surviving antidepressants is the nearest th collating lived experience. 

[India]

7 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Quick update - things are rapidly improving each day. Hang in there if you're struggling, happiness is always on a step away. We just can't see it in a down cycle. I obviously still have some fear about having a dip, but right now I'm making the most of all this great change.

Few things that have significantly helped in a short space of time:

 

kundalini yoga - every morning, huge difference even after the first day. And/or half an hour of high pace exercise first thing.

Standing under freezing cold shower after your normal shower every morning, for 3-5 seconds or however long you can. This was recommended to me by a lovely holistic doctor, it helps to rapidly strengthen the nervous system. Feels amazing and sets you up for the day.

Every morning when you wake up, laying on your back across the bed and letting your head hand off the edge, quite far down so it's almost below the shoulders. This was also recommended by the doctor. Letting the blood flow and pushing the energy towards your brain, helps mood, functions, and prevents dementia.

EFT tapping - look it up. Just started this today and it immediately helped with a chronic back spasm issue.

 

Just a few of the tools that have helped lately. I hope someone finds them useful. Will be back to update again x

I've heard deep breathing speeds up nervous system recovery. Also, swimming if ppl are well enough. It expands lungs.