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VitaminB: slow Clozaril taper


VitaminB

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Hello to all you brave souls out there who want psych off drugs. 

 

 

I have been in the mental health system for 10 years, and most of it was because of akathisia related problems that doctors will throw shade at as not happening. 

 

The only drug that has allowed me to live akathisia free that I have tried is Seroquel. 

 

I haven't been successful at tapering, and started going down by percentages only in the last few years. I have to go 3% because 10% is too fast. 

 

I have got nutritional tests (NutrEval and spectra cell) for the past two years that confirm what this article is saying:

 

http://www.optimallivingdynamics.com/blog/7-important-nutrients-depleted-by-psychiatric-drugs-antidepressants-antipsychotics-stimulants-benzodiazepines-induced-guide-vitamins-medications

 

I am going through all my old hospital records to look at what I have forgotten. In 2008 I was put on Celexa and they gave me Inderal for my "presumed" akathisia. I have forgotten most of 2008, but these records are making me mad. They are so arrogant deny the torture that is right in front of them. 

 

I respond very badly to these drugs. I will eventually have a list like most of you have that details your med history. 

 

If you are tapering off Seroquel or have been tortured by akathisia please message me. 

 

If you are going through akathisia right now, please, DON'T LET THEM DRIVE YOU CRAZY!!! It is really happening to you and it has to be stopped. 

 

I don't know what else to write right now. I hope you look into basic nutrition as a way to feel better. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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Hello B.   Welcome to S.A.  It sounds like you've been through the system and perhaps had enough. I'm sorry you've had that experience however I'm sure you will find lots of support and encouragement here.

 

It will help if you can fill out your signature so that we have a history - drugs, dates & dosages particularly in the last few years. It doesn't have to be 10 years worth. Your more recent drugs will be enough.

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

Here are a few links on withdrawal and it's effects :

What is withdrawal syndrome?

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please let us know how we can help. It sounds like you're experienced with tapering slowly. Are you having symptoms?

 

This is your thread to journal , record progress and ask any questions you may have.

Ali

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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  • Administrator

Hi, Vitaminb.

 

I was in the mental health system a long time too and came off the last of my drugs 15 months ago. Seroquel was my last drug, and I'm slowly healing now.

 

I don't take supplements, but carefully pick foods that are high in Omega 3, protein, and key vitamins, and that seems to work quite well, even after 30 years of drug use. The key is to get off the offending drugs and give yourself time to heal. 

 

Please let us know more about what drugs you're on and the dosage, and then we can post the appropriate links and get you the information you need.

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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  • Administrator

Welcome, VitaminB.

 

Do you have akathisia now? If so, why are you tapering Seroquel?

 

Please see Tips for tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine) and post any questions in your Intro topic.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi all,

 

I have a scale (it is smart weigh brand) off of amazon. I have some 25's and I have been cutting them in half and weighing them from heaviest to lightest and going down by 12.5mg..... I am currently going from 437.5 (100 Morning) to 425(ish). I am cutting 100's in fourths to get to 425 (so I can save my 25's for 12.5 and even 6.25), so I am weighing the fourths and I have taken the heaviest one last night for a three week stint at 425ish until I go down to 100 morning, 300+12.5 at night. That seems like a clumsy explanation, I plan to cool it at 100morn and 300 at night for a month because it is a dose that involves no cutting. 

 

Eating well is most of the battle, I got a hint from mercola.com about an app called cronometer that will keep track of nutrients in a cool way based off of your entered diet!


I am overwhelmed with gratitude for that link on the seroquel thread, and seeing that others are in the same boat. I am going to look into that person who said get off the serotonin foods and eat rice and potatoes.... I need to learn more about that!!!!!!! 

 

Altostrata, I do not have akathisia now, because I am thankfully only on seroquel. I was scared by a Dr., who is a fan of Dr. Breggin, who said that he didn't know if the akathisia would come back if I got off seroquel. Another Dr. said the same chemical reactions for akathisia are going on within me with Seroquel, there is just a masking agent at work. Another Dr. who is huge into holistic medicine said, "Get off of it as soon as possible!!!!" Another source said it gets harder to get off of seroquel after 7 years, I think it was Whitaker. I have been on this drug since at least 2009...the date is fuzzy, I need to get my medical records. I am terrified of being at that 7 year mark!!! The less of this drug that is filtered through my liver the better!!! How can I trust professionals that have put me through akathisia and denied my experience? The trust is out the window for these drugs, I had a Dr. say, "We don't really know how it works." You can't tell me how it works? These are the kinds of comments that tell me run, run far away! (I believe this is partially because before Big Pharma doctors would even use the herbs or other remedies on themselves, now doctors would never take their own drugs and have an experience for themselves. Except for Dr./Saint Kelly Brogan) I was down to a 150mg a day dose and we feeling way better for a while in 2013/2014, as I was pretending to be completely compliant. The hardest part of the taper is 150mg and below... I need a compounding pharmacy I am pretty sure, it will be months/maybe a year before I get there. I totally agree with the person who said that smaller the dose the more sedating it is, I found that out by trying to get off of it. 

 

I could only read half of the tips for tapering off seroquel, it is overwhelmingly good. I will have to take a break and read it again more slowly. 

 

I tend to get voices really bad as I taper, but then again, I was at the full 600mg dose that is supposed to be effecting my dopamine for a while and I was still freaking out from voices. (Thanks to the link to the seroquel thread, it looks like other people have looked at the The Last Psychiatrist article online about how seroquel is an antihistamine and an antidepressant under 600mg, not an AP) The voice in my head convinces me that it is real by adding "reverb" to itself. It is weird, like the voice wasn't convincing me enough just sounding like a "voice in my head" so it doubles down and makes me think it is in the hallway or out the window by the way it sounds. I have caught it in the act about 3 times today, it was trying to make me believe my partner was whispering things in bed, but as I took my sleep mask off, he wasn't EVEN IN THE ROOM! Thank God the voices are not perfect in their schemes and I can have some confirmation that the problem is within my head. 

 

Surprisingly, after taking Riboflavin-5-Phosphate for 5 days (I have been low in Riboflavin for 2-3 years based off NutrEval and SpectraCell tests) I am feeling WAY better. I had to get serious about this one nutrient, finally, and not just take a complex. This Riboflavin-5-Phosphate is bioavailable and really helps. This article helped me get serious about it:

 

http://www.optimallivingdynamics.com/blog/7-important-nutrients-depleted-by-psychiatric-drugs-antidepressants-antipsychotics-stimulants-benzodiazepines-induced-guide-vitamins-medications

 

Doctors tried to give me a terribly low (ineffective) dose of b6 to help with akathisia in 2013, when I was probably low on B2, a precursor to B6 even working. The citations of the article say b2 is lowered by Thorozine, I can't find the source to where he linked low b2 to seroquel yet. 

 

I am so happy to be here around like minded people, so many people suffer alone under these drugs. It is so wonderful to see people getting (real) help!

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi VitB,

 

I have experienced radio chattering and a couple of other different sounds.  Auditory hallucinations.  So have others:  hearing-things-could-be-your-drugs

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Hi VitB,

 

I have experienced radio chattering and a couple of other different sounds.  Auditory hallucinations.  So have others:  hearing-things-could-be-your-drugs

 

Thanks for the link, I was on Zyprexa (bad spelling) for a little while (terrible akathisia) and on Propranolol (beta blockers were on the that short list, but not specifically propranolol) for a long while (a year or more) as a "solution" for akathisia. I was on the benzo klonopin also for over a year but that didn't make the short list. 

 

I try to tell my family that the voices have gotten WORSE with the medication. The voice used to "be in my head" and although it was scary at times, it is more terrifying for it to be "outside my head." I drive people crazy asking them if they said this or that. I have become a real pain in the butt to loved ones. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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Down to 425mg. I hate the feeling of dosing down on Seroquel and laying in bed with a fast beating heart, unable to sleep and having that dread that I dosed to far down to sleep. 

 

I have been taking 6-9mg of melatonin with L-theanine during the transition. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • Moderator

Hey VB - it looks like you are researching carefully, and planning a careful taper.

 

I have to caution you against sudden changes in supplements.  I understand how they can be supportive to mood, and essential for nutrition, but sometimes a series of changes in rapid fire can be cumulative.  Always wait to see how you are going to react to a new supplement, before considering another one.

 

You'll be coming out the other side! Halfway through the dark, haunted forest - forward is the fastest way out (even if it is slowly).  It gets better!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I have this thought that maybe could be a "hash tag"...

 

#HealersAndDealers

 

What is the difference between a healer and a dealer? 

 

Healers ask questions, take notes, remember what you say......

 

Dealers fit you into their system of classification, pathologizing you, seeing you though a lens of disease. 

 

Healers know Nature is the true healer, and see you though a lens of wellness. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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I am at 100 morning and a little less than 325 at night. The 325 dose is a 300 pill + 1/4 of a 100 pill. I weighed out the 25s made from 100s on a scale from heaviest to lightest and in four days I will be going down to a  300+12.5. I get the 12.5 by cutting a 25s in half and weighing them from heaviest to lightest. I will be at 100 morning/312.5 at night for another 3-4 weeks, and then be at a solid place where I am not cutting anything for a dose. 

 

Wondering if anyone out there has one of these:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057P3OUG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_24?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1B295CZZVZU1P

 

I want to get one. I want to store my cut doses in it. I have a cheap scale, making a powder is not the best option. 

 

I will be another 2 months before I need to worry about it too much, but I am trying to figure out the best way to get 100mg morning/287.5 at night. I still haven't tried the water titration. If I didn't have 25s then I would be more driven to do water titration. 

 

I was thinking of cutting a 200 to take 50 out of it. So that would make 175mg +100(whole pill) + 12.5(half of a 25) =287.5mg. 

 

I would need to cut the 200s and weigh the 175 in pieces on a scale lightest to heaviest. It will be tough on my 100mg stash because I will be using two a day, but I might be able to make it up by cutting 200's to make 100s some where down the line. 

 

I am just glad to be getting to 400. 

 

300mg is where **** just starts to hit the fan..... it is just getting into the anti-depressant level. I want to go even slower as I get there. I might spend 2-3 months at 100 morning 200 at night. 

 

I am taking a very large dose of melatonin. I have regular 5mg pills and then the 3mg+200 L-theanine pills. I take one of both. I have been sleeping for 12 hours or more at night. I feel much better sleeping extra long hours. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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I was thinking of cutting a 200 to take 50 out of it. So that would make 175mg +100(whole pill) + 12.5(half of a 25) =287.5mg. 

 

 

 

OOPS I made a mistake....3/4s of 200 is 150 and I need to add a whole 25 to the mix to get 287.5

 

150mg +100(whole pill) + 12.5(half of a 25)  +25(whole pill) = 287.5mg

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • Mentor

Hi Vitamin B,    I found I noticed the fast heartbeat,  horrible, before falling asleep.            I noticed that as I got lower in the dose.  It seemed so weird, like a racing heart beat, is the opposite of relaxation and sleep, and then suddenly asleep.

 

I am down to 6mg,  and I dont get that horrible feeling anymore.

 

I also  used to find the only time I could eat, was after the tablet, made me hungry.               Now I am finding the appetite, not so linked to the tablet.

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

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  • Mentor

My symptoms due to tapering from this drug?  Headache, nausea, sore ears,  tummy troubles, oh an horrific, horriffic skin, and scalp,   scabby and itchy.  that got worse the lower I got.           No motivation, and chronic low level anxiety.

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

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Thanks for being on my intro thread. 

 

If I take a step down too fast I feel the same way with the fast heartbeat. I don't freak out anymore because I know it is from seroquel. 

 

It looks like you were all the way up to 400mg? How did you taper? 

 

I am afraid off all that itchiness! I know it comes from seroquel being an antihistamine at low levels. 

 

I am glad you are down so low!!!! If gives me hope!!!

 

I will look at your intro thread in the next couple days.

 

Thanks again 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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I sometimes think through cutting pills out of the frustration of being so stuck on them. I realized the better way to get to 287.5 is to:

 

200(whole)+75(from 3/4 of 100 pill)+12.5(half of a 25)= 287.5 and also (100 in the morning)

 

I can do the math when I get there as to what the weight of 75% of a 100mg pill is and put the 3/4s of the pills in order from heaviest to lightest. The 12.5 will be weighted heaviest to lightest too. 

 

I won't be depleting my 25s stash or my 100s stash that way. I have so many 200s. 

 

If you are trying to get off seroquel and are at a high dose, ask to be put on 50mg in the morning. That way you have a small amount to use to make into 25's if you need to. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am down to 412.5... I saw someone post that they are taking 2.5% steps every week and then stabilizing for two weeks. I think I will do something similar to that as I come out of a 3% range (going down 12.5) towards a taper range of 4%. I am going to go down by 6.25 (1/4 of a 25) one week, then another week, then stabilize and hold for 2 weeks. I can spread out the step down and still deal with cutting pills. Getting to 200mg (100 morning, 100 night) will absolutely be time to get liquid going. I still have a long ways to go before then. 

 

I voices are still pretty bad, but I saw someone post that the voices went away after they got off seroquel. I am praying that will happen to me. Maybe the damage has already been done. That is the only side effect I have going so far. 

 

I asked anylabtestnow.com if their micronutrient test was spectracell brand, and it is:

 

https://www.anylabtestnow.com/tests/micronutrient-test/

 

I am hoping someone out there will benefit from me suggesting it all the time.

 

I have had riboflavin problems (B vitamin problems in general) from being on Seroquel, it is from the seroquel as these charts confirm:

 

http://fundamentalhealthsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DrugNutrientDepletion.pdf

 

http://www.naturemade.com/~/media/Images/NatureMade/PDF/Health%20Care%20Professionals/HCP%20Updates%20042315/Common%20Drug%20Classes%20and%20Nutrient%20Interactions%20Chart%20FNL.ashx

 

I know this because I have taken the tests. I have a paper trail showing my deficiencies. Please consider getting the test done. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

VitaminB: the method you're describing is known around here as the "brassmonkey slide."  I can't quite sort out what you're considering. Here's the detail of the approach brass developed for himself and has been using for most, if not all, of his taper from Paxil.
 
It's a 6 week cycle or longer, depending on one's symptoms. Determine the % dose reduction for the full period and then divide by 4.
 
Example:

Current dose is 80 mg;

reduction of 10% = 8 mg, end dose 72 mg;

weekly cuts 8 mg / 4 weeks = 2 mg/week.

Week 1: 78 mg

Week 2: 76 mg

Week 3: 74 mg

Week 4: 72 mg

Week 5: 72 mg and holding

Week 6: 72 mg and holding

 

Usually brassmonkey will post in an intro thread after I've mentioned this method.  There's no waving emoji so just a cheesy smile to say "Hi brass!" :D
 
Here's his post to another member:

The Brssmonkey Slide is the latest dance move, it's just a jump to the left. OOps that's the Time Warp.

It's a way to minimize WD symptoms by taking a series of small cuts in succession and then waiting for the combined effects to subside, instead of taking a larger drop all at once. The original plan I came up with was dropping 2.5% a week for four weeks and then holding an additional 2 weeks. This gives a total reduction of 10% every 6 weeks. It can be done with any size drops. There are several people here doing 1.25% a week for four weeks and then a 2 week hold for a total of 5% every 6 weeks. There are others doing different combinations. The purpose is to make the symptoms gentler by taking smaller drops but still progress at a higher total percentage rate. I've used it my entire taper with great results and the others report doing well too.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Scallywag, thanks for letting me know who deserves the credit......

 

Current dose is 412.5 mg;

reduction of 3% = ~12 mg, end dose ~400 mg;

weekly cuts 12.5 mg / 2 weeks = about 6.25 mg/week.

Week 1: 406.25 mg

Week 2: 400 mg

Week 3: 400 mg and holding

Week 4: 400 mg and holding

 

 

I will keep going down in the 12.5 intervals. As the total dose gets smaller, the percentage rate is getting higher as I stay at 12.5 intervals. The brassmonkey slide will allow me to approach 4% in a safer way. 

 

I wish I new how to express myself better to get across my point on all this medication talk. I think it is because I am sticking to cutting pills in fractions and not making a powder. 

 

Thanks Brassmonkey! 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks for clarifying your plan, VitaminB.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment
  • Administrator

 

I am afraid off all that itchiness! I know it comes from seroquel being an antihistamine at low levels. 

 

 

 

Hi, VitaminB.

 

Just wanted to touch base with another Seroquel survivor.  Yes, at doses around under the 150 mg mark, it does affect histamine and can cause itchiness. I had that plus I became very sensitive to heat and would break out in rashes during the summer. 

 

But by doing the BrassMonkey slide, you'll be in better shape. I'm glad you're using the BM slide for Seroquel and I wish you much luck in your taper.

 

I found that the lower doses helped with sleep more than the higher doses, so there are some positives to getting down lower. So don't let it psych you out. You're doing really well. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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I am afraid off all that itchiness! I know it comes from seroquel being an antihistamine at low levels. 

 

 

 

Hi, VitaminB.

 

Just wanted to touch base with another Seroquel survivor.  Yes, at doses around under the 150 mg mark, it does affect histamine and can cause itchiness. I had that plus I became very sensitive to heat and would break out in rashes during the summer. 

 

But by doing the BrassMonkey slide, you'll be in better shape. I'm glad you're using the BM slide for Seroquel and I wish you much luck in your taper.

 

I found that the lower doses helped with sleep more than the higher doses, so there are some positives to getting down lower. So don't let it psych you out. You're doing really well. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the message, I am hoping this taper will be the one. It is strange how seroquel gets more sedating at lower doses, but it is true. I have felt the effect in my failed attempts at tapering. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

Link to comment

I have been looking at my medical records from 2008 and it shows a sad and depressing story. They tried me on celexa and gave me benadryl and propranolol to stop the akathisia. I kept begging to be back on seroquel because I didn't have movements on it. They kept seeing me in a progressively sicker because of the akathisia, and since the seroquel "worked" and made me "feel better" my diagnosis changed to match the drug, schizoaffective. They were arguing against psychotic features at first, but I know form experience people see you as sick when you are rocking and pacing and unable to stop moving, all the while forced to put your best distracted face forward and look as normal as you can to the doctors. It is such a cruel system. I hate it when doctors "ask you to stand still" what the hell do they think they are going to find? The "voice in my head" turned into voices all around me. I feel like I have been brain damaged. All the drugs I have tried make me look sicker then I am. Seroquel has let me live life with movements, but it has down graded my diagnosis and made things much worse. 

 

There is no choice in the matter left to me, it is a terrible, cruel system. It has taken away my autonomy and I have had to put up with them doing "medicine" based in "science" without fighting back or they will kick you harder if you do. 

 

I feel like I am pressing into a decade dealing with this.... I want to be off seroquel before the end of 2018. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • Administrator

my diagnosis changed to match the drug, schizoaffective

 

Well said, VitaminB. My diagnosis went from depression to manic-depression 30 years ago, changing to match the side effect of the AD drug. That happened to a lot of us here. 

 

But it hasn't taken away your autonomy because you're here and you're tapering slowly and carefully. That's the way to win over the evil drug companies and the psychiatrists who have so little insight into who were are as humans. 

 

Keep fighting the good fight. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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my diagnosis changed to match the drug, schizoaffective

 

Well said, VitaminB. My diagnosis went from depression to manic-depression 30 years ago, changing to match the side effect of the AD drug. That happened to a lot of us here. 

 

But it hasn't taken away your autonomy because you're here and you're tapering slowly and carefully. That's the way to win over the evil drug companies and the psychiatrists who have so little insight into who were are as humans. 

 

Keep fighting the good fight. 

 

 

 

Thanks Shep. We are smarter than they make us feel. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

Link to comment

I have been at 412.5 for about 3 weeks. I am all set up to go to 406.25. I have been sleeping a lot, and I feel like I really need to. I am not sure how long I will hold, maybe a week if I feel ok. The voices have been much better, I sometimes will get a voice that feels real, haven't been needing to react to it at all. 

 

I have a lot of 200's (around 240 pills), but I am afraid they are getting too old. I didn't keep them in their dated bottles, I kept consolidating them into bigger bottles together. I am not sure, some could be three years old. At some point a year or two ago I put silica drying pouches in them. They changed over time, some had printed letter and numbers on them, some have engraved numbers and letters. Some are bigger, some are smaller. I am keeping things dated now. I saw some internet sites that said under the right conditions medication can keep for 5-10 years. I am worried about it. 

 

I am not sure if anyone could ease my fears about the 200s being old. I am going to take a whole non-expired 300 for a while and then switch to a non-expired 100 and an old 200 to see if I can feel a decrease in dose. If the 200 loses 10% of its potency then it would be a 20mg drop. 20mg is 5% of 400mg (400mg is the overall dose). It would be a 5% overall drop and I know that a 5% decrease doesn't feel good (I need a 3% decrease.)

 

After a while at 100 morning and 300 at night I will plunge into...

 

100 (whole pill) morning, and at night: 200 (whole pill)(?), 75 (25s x 3), and 12.5 (25 in half)

If worse comes to worse I am getting a steady supply of 300s that I can cut down to 200s or even 250s. The 300s are fresh, is that a better idea? 

 

The news headline this week is how the sugar industry pressured scientific journals to not talk badly about sugar's bad effects and to put down fat. Journals may be what doctors turn to for information, but they can be sold out. It is the same with withdrawal syndrome.  Just because they don't look or gather the data doesn't mean it isn't happening. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

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  • Administrator

Hi, VitaminB.

 

I'm not sure about using prescriptions after the expiration date, so I asked the other mods if they might have some insight into this. With any decrease in potency, though, I do worry that a very sensitive nervous system may react. And it may be hard to tell if any waves are brought on by this lack of potency or if the wave would have happened anyways. 

 

It sounds like you're doing a great job of handling your voices. I used mindfulness for my visual hallucinations, and that got me through the worst of it. Those same coping skills will serve you well even after the voices stop. Learning not to react to my visual hallucinations gave me so much insight into not reacting to other stressors. We do come out of this as gurus if we keep practicing these techniques. So please keep up the great work. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Yes, as soon as I wrote all that out I realized it is safer to use cut the 300s down to the correct dose and hoard more 25s. It just makes more sense. I hate that I have so many 200s that I am unsure about, but time marches on. I can just be grateful I didn't eat them I guess.  I will weigh out the 300s and get an average weight and do the math to cut them down to a manageable 3% decrease. 

 

The privilege of more time between thought and reaction is priceless. The voices aren't on their game with their worst material to throw at me. I spend more time with them not bothering me than bothering me. You are right Shep, the difficult situation that these drugs put us in also has its lessons.

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

Link to comment

.93          .89125

------  X  -----------
 300          287.5
 
I have to make a cut off of a 300 that is ~ .03875mg.

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Hi, VitaminB.

 

Regarding your question about using prescriptions after the expiration date - the feedback I received from other mods was along the same lines I posted above. Basically, any decrease in potency presents a risk to people who are extra sensitive due to withdrawal sensitivities. So you are indeed wise to taper your 300 mg pills that you know are in date. 

 

 

I will weigh out the 300s and get an average weight and do the math to cut them down to a manageable 3% decrease. 

 

 

 

 

3% sounds like a really safe rate.  And you are really handling your symptoms well.

 

Please keep us updated on how you're doing after your decrease. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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http://www.doctoryourself.com/allergies.html
 
I am looking at the above article and thinking it would be helpful for people getting off Seroquel with the horrible itching that occurs when getting off the antihistamine levels of this drug. Dr. Andrew Saul has really sold me on Vitamin C a few years ago. He is very passionate about the subject, look for more vitamin C articles on doctoryourself.com. He has never taken money from any supplement company. I get powder ascorbic acid and make my own concoction: 
 
NO Juice "Juice" :
 
Half a gallon of spring water
 
1 powder packet of sweet leaf brand stevia 
 
2 rounded teaspoons of powder ascorbic acid (about 5,000 mg of Vitamin C)
 

2 teaspoon of L-glutamine powder 
 
1/8 teaspoon of L-lysine
 
And just recently... 1/8 teaspoon glycine 
 
I enjoy drinking the sweet/sour mixture. It tastes like lemonade. Powdered vitamin C is the cheapest way to take it from looking for years on amazon. A lot of vitamin C supplements are high in sugar. I like to avoid sugar and use stevia. Sweetleaf is my favorite brand and I am totally devoted to it either in powder or liquid. 
 
I have a hunch that high doses of vitamin C are going to let me skip the itching reaction when I get down to 50-25mg of seroquel. 
 
In other news I am down to 100 morning and 300 night. I was heavily sedated just taking the 300 without the little 6.25 chunk to go along with it. Or as a fellow seroquel victim and I joke... we get Seroquel drunk. We also display our weight gain in our midsection and talk about our "seroquel babies." I am sorry to offend anyone. We were deliriously bored in the hospital and laughing at our terribly oppressed situation. 
 
I really love this medication keeper:
 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057P3OUG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
It is a super smart design. If you have ever heard of the book, "The Life-changing Power of Tidying Up" you would know Marie Kondo would approve this design. It stands up vertically and saves space. Plus the way it is designed forces the pills to slide to the clear "window" where you can see in and see the dose amount. I have been using it for two weeks and will never need another design.

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

Link to comment

I just got this insanely useful email from Dr. Saul just now...

 

 

Why Vitamin C, B-6 and Niacin are so Easily Absorbed
by Andrew Saul

 

Glucose (C6H12O6), the absolute simplest of all sugars, weighs 180 atomic mass units (amu). It is very readily absorbed by the body. Ask any parent if their kids are having trouble absorbing sugar.
Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) weighs less than glucose, 176 amu.
Pyridoxine (C8H11NO3) is vitamin B-6. It weighs even less, only 169 amu.
Vitamin B-3, Niacin (C6H5NO2) , weighs considerably less, a mere 123 amu. In fact, niacin is the smallest of all vitamin molecules. 

On the other hand, we have B-12, Cobalamin, which is C63H88CoN14O14P. Whew! The molecule weighs in at a whopping 1,355 amu. That’s why you benefit from selecting its methylated form, methylcobalamin. In this case, better absorption is indeed provided by the more costly supplement. 

But for niacin, vitamin C and B6, go cheap. You will hear no end of criticisms from partisans that are trying to sell you, er, TELL you something different. Something uniquely dazzling only THEY have to offer. Probably something expensive. 

Almost all successful clinical research with high-dose niacin, vitamin C and B-6 has used cheap, lab-made molecules.

Save your money. And then go spend it on a no-junk, unprocessed food diet!
Edited by scallywag
made subscripts in chemical formulas

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

Link to comment

That's confusing .

How about -  Eat real / whole food  ?

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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Ok. Sorry . On re- reading this I see where you're going . We are in total agreement .  :)  Didn't sleep last night - so a bit " wired". Tired but wired.  :blink: 

Apologies.

Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014

 

                                                  Psych Drug - free since May 2014
.
         

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Interesting reading. Thanks for posting them, Vitamin B. :)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

Can anyone scare me into avoiding alcohol with knowledge about what it is doing to my withdrawing brain? I inbibed during the debates last night. I know I am not supposed to have any. I don't go buy it. If there is some around I start to rationalize drinking....just one. Please scare me. I have heard that alcohol messes with the same receptors as the seroquel does. I suspect since alcohol is carbohydrate, my body turns it straight to fat. I do not go out and get it, but it is hard to say no when it is in front of me. 

I was on Seroquel from 2008-2016 because Seroquel doesn't cause akathisia (in my case) and all other drugs do.   

 

I am tapering slowly off Seroquel- got down to 393.75mg, Fall 2016 ... 3% taper still couldn't keep me from hospital. 

 

Hospital stay switched me to 300 clozapine/clozaril.

 

Summer 2017: slowly cut and weighed clozapine/clozaril from 300mg to 275mg over 3 months. 

 
 

 

Link to comment
  • ChessieCat changed the title to VitaminB: sero"kill" taper ...

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