HAa: tapering Effexor and buspirone

[Altostrata]

17 minutes ago, HAa said:

6pm 3,75 mg oxapax Calm at ease 

8.30- 22.30pm Extreme anxiety pressure mindracing 

 

We keep telling you to stop the Oxapax. Do you see your adverse reaction?

 

If you continue to do this, we can't help you, you're making your own problems.

 

What happened to your 6 p.m. lamotrigine?

[HAa]

I had a terrible day. I xheck rhis morning. I dis take too little buspiron and prrhaps that was rhe reaction with all the symptoms during the day. I got scared. I know the solution is not oxapax. 

 

Sorry i forgot to write the lamotrign I did take it .

 

Do you think that what I experiensed was WD from stopping ocapax on 25.th october?

Or because I took too litle buspiron yesterday morning?

 

it has been a while since it has been so bad as it was yesterday?

[HAa]

Oh. I moved the morning medication to 7am as I began to sleep much better and longer. This was a week or so ago. I have written it in my daily notes. 

Should I write it somewhere else so that you know?

[HAa]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

We keep telling you to stop the Oxapax. Do you see your adverse reaction?

I havent been taking oxapax since 25th oktober. 

It is like the anxiety has been building during the last week 

Switzed to extreme anxiety last night. Could not feel my legs and felt like I was dissolving complete That was why I tried 3,75mg oxapax as I was on the edge of having to admit myself to psyciatric ward. 

Might I experience WD from stopping oxapax, as stopping cold turkey?? I am not able to withstand it. I am loosing my mind. 

All this started before I took the micro dosis 3,75mg oxapax  last night. 

 

I didnt think I was depended on it all though you have been telling my that could be the case. But I am starting to think that I am.

 

I am not in controll.  

Please dont think that I dont  try all I can but as it just kwpt building up I couldnt withstand..

I need help to get through this. I havent found any psychiatrist who know anything about this coctail I am on and how to deal with getting out of this.  

And also today I cant feel my leg.

Still It is like I am dissolving completely.I am terrified that I might end up psychotic. 

I have tried isbathing, listening to relaxing music. Having a hug.  Shifting scene. Pushing the thoughts aside till worrytime, but I am out of controll. Just running around trying to get some relief.

[Altostrata]

Please continue to post your daily notes, including your drug schedule and sleep pattern.

 

It's important to take your drugs at the same time each day. Every time you change a drug or skip a dose, you might have symptoms.

 

 

4 hours ago, HAa said:

All this started before I took the micro dosis 3,75mg oxapax  last night. 

 

I didnt think I was depended on it all though you have been telling my that could be the case. But I am starting to think that I am. 

 

 

Do not take Oxapax! As you can see, it might help at first, then make you worse. You believe it will help you because you're psychologically addicted to it. You need to resist this. It doesn't help you, it only causes more problems -- such as spells of anxiety.

 

How is it you can't feel your leg? Are you able to stand on it and move it?

[HAa]

Yesterday I did not trust myself. I wanted to end my life. My symptoms continue to get worse during the day including the nomeness in my legs and at 6pm I gave ind and took oxapax 7,5mg as I wrote. It had gotten worse before I took the oxapax. And I hadnt taken any pxapax since 25. oktober. 

So I dont understand why I got it so bad yesterday and today

 

Is it because I stopped oxapax 3 weeks ago or

Is it because I made the mistake of taken too little buspiron and forgot to take efexor at 10am and took it at 11.30 when I found out?

 

I never before took a wrong dosis and never forgot medicin before - and that scares me. 

 

16.11.

Kl 6.30am Got up - Awake at 5am. Beside that I slept all night.  Mindracing restless as all other mornings. 

It turned to extreme anger. Settled somewhat down Wish I can remember this when anxiety hit again

7am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg

8am Anxiety again It has been building up during the last week. Switched to extreme anxiety yesterday around noon the 15. November. It is like I am dissolving completely.

10am Efexor 75mg

12am Lunch 

3pm Snack

5pm kajakklub training. Cant find any peace or consolation as I usually do in the club 

7pm Dinner No appetite Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg

9pm Mind-racing, head spinning, hart is racing, no rest. Pure hell again as yesterday. 

9.20. To bed- anxious burning sensations in upper leg. 

 

[Altostrata]

55 minutes ago, HAa said:

Is it because I made the mistake of taken too little buspiron and forgot to take efexor at 10am and took it at 11.30 when I found out? 

 

Very possibly.

 

We keep on telling you to be very regular with your drug schedule and you keep making changes. When you make a change, you might make more symptoms.

 

Every time you make more symptoms, we have to see more days of symptom pattern, to see if it is a true symptom or because of your drug change.

 

Do you feel better or worse after you take Effexor?

[HAa]

I know and at the moment I keep forgetting to take the medicin at the same time. I got to sleep better and I didnt want to set the alarm to get op and take the medicin at 6am.   And the day before yesterday I simply forgot to take efexor at 10am. It seems as if my memory is getting worse.

 

I am unsure if I feel worse after I take efexor. It might be so, as I am getting it worse during the day. 

 

It is bad enough in rhe mornings,  if I get occupide in some acrivity it seems I get some relief and my mind is querying for a little while also after I take efexor 

 

But perhaps you are right. It might be worse after efexor. 

[HAa]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you feel better or worse after you take Effexor?

 

I definitely  feel worse.

Even though the restlessness and intrusive thoughts start building up before I take Effexor, it gets even worse as the day goes. 

[HAa]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:06 AM, ChessieCat said:

You might like to try Worry Time – an app specifically designed to help with a busy mind. 

Now been using the worry app for some days. The thoughts are not “dangerous” when I look at them in the app. @ChessieCat So I am training to observe them and write them in the app, and I do that when they repeatedly pop up during the day. Very useful. Thank you

[HAa]

17.11. 

1am Awake Fell asleep

6am Got up Loose stool

Mindracing restless, tens. 

7am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg

8am Mindracing restless, tens gerting more intens shift of scene 

9-10am Took a rest. Still restless and mindracing

10am Effexor 75mg

10.15am Winther svimming    and sauna - some calm while in the water. 

11.30am Besides from that the tension, mind-racing and restlessness gets worse and building up and up. 

Running around trying to find peace. Using meditation, affirmations, gardening, talking to friends and on and on...

11.30am Lunch - Painfully restless, mind-racing,unease all afternoon 

3.30pm Mindfulness-calm Worrying of when the anxiety will start again. I so long for peace. Had 3 hours of peace on the sofa reading and relaxing - So nice 

6pm Went to the kitchen. Restlessness, sadness and tension building up again

7pm Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg Dinner -  No appetite Sad and tens. Reading.

9-10.30pm Tens, headache Hugs - Some relieve 

10.30pm To bed

 

18.11

1-3-5-6am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got up Loose stool Mindracing restless - Calmed me down 

7am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg. Fear the day to come. Able to leave the thoughts alone and concentrate on here and now

 

 

[HAa]

18.11.

1-3-5-6am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got up Mindracing restless - Loose stool

7am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg Mindracing restless unease few seconds of of calm and then again restless continue. 

10am efexor 75mg

10am-5pm Cold Water 

Camp. Restless pressure  

2pm Lunch - restless pressure 

7pm Dinner Some appetite Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg. Pressure 

9pm pressure some calm

10pm To bed less pressure Some calm.

[Altostrata]

How do you feel after the lamotrigine in the morning and evening?

 

Do you feel any different now that you're taking 100mg lamotrigine in the morning and 100mg in the evening?

[HAa]

The restlessness and mindracing are building up during the mornings. 

It intensifies as the day passes. 

The restlessness and mindracing are not less after I split lamotrigin to 100mgx2. And after efexor it continue to intensify.

But that has been the picture all the time also before we changed time for medication.

In the evening I often calm down 9-10pm

it seems as if I have had more restlessness in the evenings after I splitt the lamotrigin dosis.

But it could also be because I stopped taking oxapax??

 

How long does it usually take before oxapax WD passes?

I dont have cravings. Just more intens mindracing restlessness unease and pressure and loose stool for the last 2 days.

 

The last two nights I have been awake 3-4 times. I guess it is because of stopping oxapax even though I often took it mid afternoon. 

Or perhaps it is just how it is beeing on AD for so many years.

 

What do you think?

 

[Altostrata]

Has your symptom pattern or sleep pattern changed since you stopped Oxapax?

 

From what you're reporting, your symptom pattern did not get worse after you stopped Oxapax. It doesn't look like you have withdrawal symptoms from stopping Oxapax, you just get paradoxical reactions when you take it.

 

It may be time to reduce your 75mg Effexor XR by taking out 10 beads. (Put the beads into a tinted bottle and keep them in a cool, dark place.) What do you think?

[HAa]

Sleept all night and did not wake up early a week or so after I stopped oxapax.

 

Sleeppattern went back to waking up 3-4 times after the 15.11. where I by mistake took too little buspiron 2,9 instead of 3mg and where I forgot to take efexor at 10 and instead took it at 12.30 am. And where I took 7,5 mg oxapax again once.

 

I slept a little better this night.

 

I want to waite a week more and see if sleep goes back to sleeping all night and where I wake up a little later. 

 

When I start taper again I think that starting even slower mikrotapering 2 beads first week and see how that goes. I am scared to reduce as I tried to reduce in the spring 2018 and never really stabelised after that.

 

Micro tapering very slowly to see how I respond? 

[HAa]

19.11.

1am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got up Mindracing/ Rumination Restless 

7am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg lamotrigin 100mg Ruminating Restless tens

8-10am Restless ruminating have to be walking and being active all the time. 

10am effexor 75mg

12-16.30am Lunch Restless ruminating tiered but can not find any rest Sad

6pm Dinner 

7pm Buspiron 3,5 mg Lamotrigin 100 mg restless ruminating

7.30pm Meeting in kajakklub - calm

23.30 pm To bed calm Some muscle twitzing  in legs

[HAa]

20.11.

1+5am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got up Mindracing fear the day. - Calmed a little down

7am Breakfast Buspiron 10 mg Lamotrigin 100 mg Ruminating Restless Muscle twitzing in legs - took a nab - A little calm

8.15-10am Got up - Breakfast Little calm by concentrating on writing mails concerning project and sending mail contact list.

10am efexor 75mg. Kajakklub workout - some calm

12am-4pm Lunch - Good appetite, calm and collected

6pm Dinner - good appetite 

7pm Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100 mg

7-10.30pm Mostly calm To bed

[HAa]

21.11.

7.10am Got up Sleept all 

night Calm 

7.20am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg Little rumination Trying to stop = More rumination and tens Trying to let it be= Little more calm

8.30 - 10.30am Meeting with Mentor Calm

10am Effexor 75mg calm

12am Lunch 

12am -5pm Tired. Strange feelings in both feets, numb and is-cold. Dizzy when getting up. (Never before) 

6pm Dinner - anxiety rumination worrying hart beating, sad, wanting to run away.  Get really scared - Stopped and calm a little by accepting it and letting it be and letting it go and refocus on here and now =Sounds what I see... Reminding myself. “No danger here and now”

6-22.30pm Anxious ruminating To bed

 

22.11.

1+3+5am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got Up Anxious restless ruminating Mindracing Pinds and needles in both legs.

7am Breakfast 3mg buspiron Lamotrigin 100mg Mindrasing restless. Struggling to focus on here and now. Terrified.   

[HAa]

22.11.

1+3+5am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got up. anxious, sad, ruminating worrying restless. 

7am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg anxious, sad, ruminating worrying restless Burring sensations in upper legs

7am - all day + crying spells

10am efexor 75mg

12am lunch - So tired 

1.30-2.30pm Took a nab for one hour- woke ruminating worrying sad crying burning sensations in upper legs Spend all day on the sofa 

No energy tired. Fell asleep

7pm Dinner Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg So tired, crying. Cant concentrate, sad, upper legs burning sensation. No energy.  

10pm To bed tired and sad.

 

Seems as if I am falling apart. It is much worse to day. Crying no energi tired meningsless and hopelessness. 

 

[HAa]

@Altostrata I have notices that I during the last days have become dizzy after I have taken efexor at 10am. I started some time ago wiht the numbness in my legs. Now the last week I have gotten dizzy when I stand up...

 

Could that be something the edexor does or it is because I quit oxapax 25.10.? 

 

22.11.

1+3+5am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got up. anxious, sad, ruminating worrying restless. 

7am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg anxious, sad, ruminating worrying restless Burring sensations in upper legs

7am - all day + crying spells

10am efexor 75mg

12am lunch - So tired 

1.30-2.30pm Took a nab for one hour- woke ruminating worrying sad crying burning sensations in upper legs Spend all day on the sofa 

No energy tired. Fell asleep

7pm Dinner Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg So tired, crying. Cant concentrate, sad, upper legs burning sensation. No energy.  

10pm To bed tired and sad

[Allreadygone]

Is 10am later than usual for u,I know one of my symtoms of Effexor wd is dizziness and vertigo when I have made cut.Usually goes away after 2-3weeks then emotional stuff happens @HAaNot that this wouid happen with u it’s just my experience

[HAa]

Thank you for sharing.

I will be aware of this. I was a little late taking the efexor to day. The other days I was on time. Perhaps my nervoussystem is all out of line. 

 

[Altostrata]

On 11/19/2018 at 12:08 AM, HAa said:

Sleeppattern went back to waking up 3-4 times after the 15.11. where I by mistake took too little buspiron 2,9 instead of 3mg and where I forgot to take efexor at 10 and instead took it at 12.30 am. And where I took 7,5 mg oxapax again once.

 

It looks like your schedule is to take Effexor at 10 a.m.? Please take your drugs at the same time each day. Yes, irregularity can cause these problems.

 

Please give more detail: In what ways do you feel better before you take Effexor, and in what ways do you feel worse?

 

Do you feel dizzy before you take Effexor at 10 a.m.?

[HAa]

23.11.

1+4+5am Awake Fell asleep

6.45am Got up Calm for a short period Loose stool

7am Breakfast Mindracing rumination restless feeling cold in feet’s and upper legs  Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg

8am Rumination continues, tens all day

10.2am Efexor 75mg

11.30am Dizzy numbness in legs.

12am Lunch Crying mindracing restless not able to calm myself Dizzy “walking on clouds”

1-4pm occupied by cooking. Some rest still dizzy when getting up 

5pm Training in the club

some calm 

7pm Dinner Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg

Tired some ease

11pm To bed

 

24.11

2+5am Awake Fell asleep

7am Got up Loose stool, some calm, little mindracing breakfast Buspiron 3 mg Lamotrigin 100mg

8.30pm some mindracing some calm

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

It looks like your schedule is to take Effexor at 10 a.m.? Please take your drugs at the same time each day. Yes, irregularity can cause these problems.

 

Please give more detail: In what ways do you feel better before you take Effexor, and in what ways do you feel worse?

 

Do you feel dizzy before you take Effexor at 10 a.m.?

I do not feel dizzy before I take effexor. It starts about 2 hours after I have taking it

I take efexor 75mg 10am

I take buspiron 3+3,5 and Lamotrigin 100 mg both at 7am and 7pm

I am so mixed up in my head that I even I have set an alarm I forget ro take it precise at 10am

The morning amd evening doses I take precisely at the time

 

But “the walking om clouds” and dizzyness when I stand up appears  about two hours after effexor and last untill midd evening. 

 

I didnt have this before I change time for effexor from 7am to 10 am. And I just have started now several  weeks after the change in time.

[HAa]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you feel dizzy before you take Effexor at 10 a.m.?

10.30am The dizzyness when getting up from sitting accually started 30 min after I took efexor and at the same time the restlessness and mindracing increased today. Pins and needle and “tics” in the muscles in lower legs. ( It use usely there only at night when I go to bed and not every night)

11am “walking on clouds” and ice cold feets

 

I still find it difficult to say what is what, as my symptoms are so diffenent in when the come and to what degree. It is so on and of during some days and some days the symptoms are there all day.

 

The only pattern that is constant is that I feel worse as the day goes and that it usually calms down around 9 to 10 pm .

 

I will try to observere and describe the symptoms more often during today to be more specific in my description 

[HAa]

24.11

2+5am Awake Fell asleep

7am Got up Loose stool, some calm, little mindracing breakfast Buspiron 3 mg Lamotrigin 100mg

8.30pm some mindracing some calm.

10am Efexor 75mg 

10.30am dizzyness when I get up standing, the restlessness and mindracing increased Pins and needle and “tics” in the muscles in lower legs. ( It use usely there only at night when I go to bed and not every night)

11am “walking on clouds” and ice cold feet

12am Lunch

1pm Some ease less mindracing. Sensations in feet and legs the same Tired, sad  

6pm Dinner

7pm Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg 

9pm Tired hart hammering Pins and needles

10pm To bed

[Altostrata]

My guess is you are having an adverse reaction to Effexor. Are you taking Effexor XR? Are there tiny beads inside the capsule?

[HAa]

I agree.

Yes I am taking effexor xr 75mg. Tiny beats. 240-248 beat in the capsule.

How many % reduction will 10 beats be?

And if I want to mikrotaper 10beads over 4 weeks, should I reduct 2 beads in first week - se how it goes and then reduct 4 beads 2. week and so on?

all while monitoring how it goes? 

 

I have a hard time understanding the taper description and the calculating paper.

 

[HAa]

 

13 hours ago, HAa said:

I agree.

Yes I am taking effexor xr 75mg. Tiny beats. 240-248 beat in the capsule.

How many % reduction will 10 beats be?

And if I want to mikrotaper 10beads over 4 weeks, should I reduct 2 beads in first week - se how it goes and then reduct 4 beads 2. week and so on?

all while monitoring how it goes? 

 

I have a hard time understanding the taper description and the calculating paper.

 

25.11. @Altostrata

7am Sleept all night

7.30am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg. Mindracing 

10am efexor xr 75mg 

11am restless increasing mindracing,  paraesthesia/

tingling in calves and feet and a hectic feeling inner turmoil Dizzy when getting on my feets.

Symptoms  continue all day

12 Lunch

6pm Dinner 

7pm Buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrigin 100mg

8pm Symptoms intensify Burning sensations in the upper legs, less dizzy but increasing mindracing, tens and unease  

10am To bed 

 

I think I have gotten more symptoms in the evening after I split the dosis of lamotrigin 100+100 morning and evening

I would like slowly to move it back to taking 200mg in the morning together with the buspiron.

Is that a stupid thing to do?

[Altostrata]

Please do not change lamotrigine or any of your other drugs.  Take all drugs at the same times each day.

 

10 beads is about 5% of your 75mg Effexor capsule. You might try taking out 10 beads. (Keep them in a dark-colored, closed container.)

 

You will need to keep notes as you make this change, so we can see if your symptoms change.

[HAa]

I stay on the dosis I am on

I when ready I will resuce as recomended.

 

I would like ro start taking 2 beads out for one week as I am afraid of taking too big a cut. 

That way I might see if I am able to tolerate tapering  without desturbing mybneecoussystem even more than it is allreasy

What do you think @Altostrata

[HAa]

On 11/26/2018 at 7:35 AM, HAa said:

I would like ro start taking 2 beads out for one week as I am afraid of taking too big a cut. 

That way I might see if I am able to tolerate tapering  without desturbing mybneecoussystem even more than it is allreasy

What do you think @Altostrata

 

26.11.

7am Sleept all night. Short awake 1am 4am

7.15am Breakfast Buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg Restless mindracing 

10am Meeting Psychiatrist efexor 75mg 

11am increased restless, paraesthesia i legs, burning sensation i upper legs

Training focus of awareness  

Went for a walk

12am Lunch increased restless and mindracing. Took a nap Some rest 

1pm Grandchild visiting Symptoms continue all day Tired

5.20pm Dinner some rest less mindracing

7pm buspiron 3,5mg Lamotrign 100mg at ease calm 

Awareness focus-training

11pm To bed

[HAa]

27.11. 

7am slept all night Short awake 1+4am. At ease, Little mindracing, Some calm

7.15am Breakfast buspiron 3mg Lamotrigin 100mg Some calm little mindracing

9am awareness training Took a nap

10am Much Mind-racing and restlessness, nervous  

10am efexor 75mg 

Winter swimming, restless and mind racing. Walking from the harbor Remembered: To accepting the anxiety - I rest and get calm Mind-racing stops, body relax. What a relief 

12.30 Lunch

Reminding myself to accept instead of trying to avoid. Accept and let it be. Then the bodily sensations and the mind relax. 

15.30. The fear for the anxiety returns as a bodily sensation in the abdomen and the the thoughts as well. Had a hard time letting it be

5.30pm Dinner 

6.45pm Buspiron 3 mg Lamotrigin 100mg 

7.30pm Tingling/ muscle tics in lower legs. Some Mind-racing 

10.30pm To bed

 

@Altostrata

Can I start tapering by taking two beads out and see how it goes?

[Altostrata]

Yes, you can take out 2 beads. Be sure to keep notes about your drug changes.

 

What does your psychiatrist say about your symptom pattern?

[HAa]

Thank you 

I will make a sheet and write when I taper and if the symptoms change

 

I shall meet her again today and I will get her view on my symptom pattern.