HAa: tapering Effexor and buspirone

[nz11]

You’re welcome.

Got it sorted now?

[HAa]

3 minutes ago, nz11 said:

You’re welcome.

Got it sorted now?

Unfortunately not.

yesterday with just 10% reduction= 24 beats I was over the roof, and had to take 1/2 oxapam twice in order to keep myself alive . That worries me a lot and this morning I reinstalled to 75 mg at 8 am.

 

I am at the moment crying all the time but have at fraction less anxiety. 

 

 

 

 

[nz11]

Sorry to hear this Haa

Hope you stabilise soon.

[HAa]

2 minutes ago, nz11 said:

Sorry to hear this Haa

Hope you stabilise soon.

So do I. How long will it take before Efexor is in max plasmakoncentretion - 

And How long should I expect I will know if reinstalling is helping?

 

I know there is No garanti that updosing will help at all. But I pray to God - He can support and guide me. Even thou I never befrie turnes to him

[Gridley]

Just so it's clear--stop tapering everything.  Just hold.  Let your nervous system stabilize.  

 

It takes 4 days for your nervous system to even recognize a change and then it can take a week or several weeks for you to stabilize on it. Your nervous system may be unstable for quite awhile. 

 

Please change your signature to show that you are now back on 75mg Effexor.

 

 

[HAa]

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

Just so it's clear--stop tapering everything.  Just hold.  Let your nervous system stabilize.  

 

It takes 4 days for your nervous system to even recognize a change and then it can take a week or several weeks for you to stabilize on it. Your nervous system may be unstable for quite awhile. 

 

Please change your signature to show that you are now back on 75mg Effexor.

 

 

I will stop tapering and stay on current dosis.

Sorry but how do I change my signature - mening how do I find it?

 

 

 

[Gridley]

This link will take you to your signature:   Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[HAa]

Thank you

27 minutes ago, Gridley said:

This link will take you to your signature:   Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

[HAa]

2 hours ago, HAa said:

Thank you

 

I have edited my  signature with my current dosis and medication

 

Her I list the tapering histori

 

Tapering histori pr.  31.1

75mg efexor xr 8am (up the 31.1 from 60 mg over 67,5mg)

10 mg 8am and 6pm Taper from 10mg x2 since August 2017 

Last taper on the  22 Jan to 6mg am and 6 mg 6 pm. Reinstalled 26.1 to 6mg and 6,5 mg due to terrible anxiety

300 mg Lamotrigin from June 2016 to nov 2017 Taper to 200 mg lamotrigin from nov 2017

1/2 mg oxapax on- of every a couple of days for a few days max 3-5 or month

[HAa]

I an strugling tapering

I am back on efexor 75 mg from april

I went back trying to taper Buspiron and when I went down from 3 mg + 3,75 to 3+3,5. This was 1. of August It took 3 weeks before the anxiety decreased.

I then tried to reduce lamotrogin from 200 mg to 175 mg on the 22. of August. and after 14 days with increasing anxiety I went back up to 200 This was on the 4. of September. It took another 14 days before I settled down again after the reinstalling 

 Then I tried to reduce buspiron from 3,5 to 3,4 on the 9. September 

After 7 seven days I could not manage the anxiety and reinstall 3,5.

now I am on

lamotrigin 200 mg 

buspiron 3+3,5 mg

Effexor 75 mg

 

And still suffering from restlessness intruding thoughts anxiety and agitated depression. I have to be in activity all the time to manage and 7,5 mg oxapax as needed is only giving little releafe.

 

Which of these meds are acciliraters and which a brakes. 

And what hat would you suggest I try tapering of as the way I tried is getting thing worse. 

I will try mikrotapering. I am unsure which to try now.

 

(I got the lamotrigin added on as they supposed to help on the depression which the didn’t) But

I got suisidel when I reduced them even it was only 25 mg out of 100)

[Altostrata]

Hello, HAa.

 

If you have gotten withdrawal symptoms recently, I would not reduce anything right now. If I were you, I would reduce the other drugs before reducing lamotrigine.

 

As you know, we recommend a 10% decrease per month, one drug at a time. You have been reducing by more than that. See

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

How is your sleep? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

We need this information to see if your symptoms are from any of the drugs you're taking, particularly oxazepam.

 

Please update your signature as well.

 

Roughly speaking, Effexor is an accelerator while buspirone, lamotrigine, and oxazepam are brakes. However, oxazepam can have a paradoxical effect and cause anxiety, sleeplessness, etc.

 

 

[HAa]

Thank you a lot. I was not aware that I reduced more than 10%. I have tried to reduce with just 2.5 %.

 

I will hold on what I am on now. 

 

I do not know how to update my signature. Can you tell me how? 

And what should I write in the signature? 

Should it be what I write here below?

 

I write daily down what I take and what symptoms I have.

 

Oxapax is giving me relief unless I am in too bad a state. And on good days I don’t need to take any for several days in a row up to a week or more days than that.

 

I think that I are getting worse because I have been reducing Buspiron instead of Effexor. 

 As of now I haven’t been able to reduce even 0,125 mg out of 3+3,5. I was reducing on the evening doses. 

 

I got the meds because of depression with anxiety / restless and crying spells as the worse symptoms.

 

Over the last 5 - 6 years I have gotten worse. And now I am anxious most of the time. But it is getting unbearable 3-7 days after a reduction and getting worse as the days pass. Last time it lasted 6 weeks before I was back to the usually level of anxiety / restless - not able to sit down. I had to be active all the time. I don’t have any physical symptoms to speak of. A little headache and nausea for a few days.

And a week or two were I sleep very lightly.

 

Usually I get some relief at 10 pm. And some evenings I feel absolutely fine and at ease as I know myself. 

 

In the April I think I reduced Effexor and did a too big a reduction and went back to 75mg. Since then I was scared and therefore I tried to reduce the Buspiron. 

[ChessieCat]

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

dates, ALL drugs, doses, no symptoms or diagnoses

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

This needs to be posted as a reply in your topic, not in the signature.  This is an example:

 

Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

A symptom pattern that occurs regularly over several days could mean the symptoms are from withdrawal, other adverse effects of drugs, or something else you do on a daily schedule.

 

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every individual day over several days is:

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in morning
- Time and description of any symptoms in the morning
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in afternoon
- Time and description of any symptoms in the afternoon
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in evening
- Time and description of any symptoms in the evening
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in middle of the night
- Time and description of any symptoms in the middle of the night (such as waking)
 
And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, such as:
 
6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache

 

An appointments diary is perfect for this and can be bought at stationery stores. 

They have a page for each day with times for appointments which can be filled in with doses, symptoms etc as shown by Alto.

[HAa]

Can you show me where I find my topic - or is that here on this place?

should I add a file instead of writing it all here?

[Gridley]

 

3 hours ago, HAa said:

Can you show me where I find my topic - or is that here on this place?

should I add a file instead of writing it all here?

 

This right here is your Introduction topic.  This is the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.

[HAa]

Is it her I write my daily notes on 

date time drug dosis and symptoms, when I have noted them over some days?

[Gridley]

Yes.

[HAa]

19.9

5.30am

Woke Rumination crying anxius

7am

Ate and meds (Effexor XR75 mg, Buspiron 3 mg Lamotrigin 200 mg)

11.30am 7,5 mg oxapax due to

anxious rumination

Extreme restless and crying

12am Lunch

6pm roing and at ease rest of the day

5pm dinner 

8pm 3,5 mg buspiron

10.30pm To bed. Slept all night

 

20.9.

5.30amWoke at ease

7am breakfast and meds

12am lunch

12am am 7,5 oxapax as anxiety and crying is building up

1pm relief 

3pm restless and crying Got a hug and had some relief - dinner

4pm roing and at ease

5.45pm anxiety crying restless

18.20pm 7,5 mg oxapax due to ekstreeem anxiety ruminating restless Can’t contain myself. 

7pm relief moderate anxiety 

7.15 3,5 mg Buspiron and snack

10.30pm Moderate anxiety To bed. Leg muskuls twitzing. Slept all night

 

21/9.

5.30am Woke anxiety crying can’t sit still restless Can’t contain myself. Went to bed trying to calm down

7am 1/2 mg oxapax No reliefs 

8am breakfast and meds.

9am Got a hug and talked to therapist got some relief. Moderate sadness and crying

12am Lunch

 

Is the above the things I should write here in order to see if there is any pattern?

[Gridley]

Yes, that is correct.

[HAa]

Thank you

How many days noteings should I post?

As I see the past year there is no pattern. I have the symptoms as described all the time with a few days symptomfree. And then on again. 

The last times I reduced the symptoms for unbeareble as the still are. It has lasted 6 weeks now even that I tapered only very little. 

 

I can can post how I tapered and I think I didn’t hold long enough between the tapering. 

[Gridley]

Please post how you tapered.   Are you only tapering the Effexor?  What are your symptoms?

 

The days you previously posted are sufficient.  

 

 

[HAa]

Tapering notes:

 

EffexorXR

18januar75mg-48 beats 20%down

30januar 75mg-24 beats 10% up

31januar 75mg 

Symptoms

No tapering sinse then - Got really scared as I got suicedel / sky high anxeity 

 

Buspiron

7 march  6 mg + 6,5mg

8 april      5,75mg x2

22 april    5,5mg x2

14 May    5,5mg +5mg

25 May    3.75mg + 5mg

31 May   3,75mg x2

11 June  3,125mg x2

  6 July   3,75mg +3,125mg

19 july.    3 mg + 3,75mg 

2 august 3mg + 3,5 mg

Symtoms

The first 3-5 days headache and no appetite 

The nexst 10-20 days light sleep with many wakings

and sky high anxiety

The last reduction same pattern except the restlessness, anxiety and rumination is just getting worse and my oxapax as needed is increasing as now almost every day 7,5 Mg one or 2 times a day

And I just get little relief.

The only thing that helps is being aktive all the time. And it is like driving with the gas and break all the time.

 

Therefore I tryed to reduce lamotrigin

Lamotrigin

22 august 175mg Down 25mg

5 september 200mg

This only made my conditions worse - even more restless anxiety and so on

A few days with headache the sky rocking of the above symptoms.

I reinstall with no effect what so ever.

As soon as I aren’t occupie me with writing this, gardening, rowing, being social my thoughts are all about worrying and rumination on how I feel in my mind and body.

I do see a therapist and traume yoga and as long as I am there I also am calm

Around 10pm I return in my body and fell absolutely normal and

calm. I now sleep all night again 

But days are terrible and it is hard to keep believing I ever will get relief more permenetly

It seems like all I am doing is thinking and running around trying to find some people to be with or something to occupy me mind.

I do mindfulness as well but sometimes it is too much

 

How am I going to get through this?

[ChessieCat]

18 minutes ago, HAa said:

I now sleep all night again 

 

That is something to be really thankful for.

 

It's really important to learn and use non-drug ways to get through the tough times.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Acceptance

Acceptance and Mindfulness

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

[HAa]

Is what I listed usefull for your possibilities to recommend what I should taper next when my nerves system have calmed down again?

I think what I experience is adverse  effect after 20 some years on the medication.

And that is perhaps why it is getting worse and not calming down again after a while.

 

If that is the case how to know when to taper again if this mode just continue and it is all about adverse effect. It seems like catsh twenty two.

Because sooner of later I must come of and I know it must be very very slowly. 

 

Can an you say something about that or is there a link where I can read about it

 

And thanks for the links you posted. 

[HAa]

On 9/22/2018 at 1:00 AM, Gridley said:

Please post how you tapered.   Are you only tapering the Effexor?  What are your symptoms?

Tapering notes:

 

EffexorXR

18januar75mg-48 beats 20%down

30januar 75mg-24 beats 10% up

31januar 75mg 

Symptoms

No tapering sinse then - Got really scared as I got suicedel / sky high anxeity 

 

Buspiron

7 march  6 mg + 6,5mg

8 april      5,75mg x2

22 april    5,5mg x2

14 May    5,5mg +5mg

25 May    3.75mg + 5mg

31 May   3,75mg x2

11 June  3,125mg x2

  6 July   3,75mg +3,125mg

19 july.    3 mg + 3,75mg 

2 august 3mg + 3,5 mg

Symtoms

The first 3-5 days headache and no appetite 

The nexst 10-20 days light sleep with many wakings

and sky high anxiety

The last reduction same pattern except the restlessness, anxiety and rumination is just getting worse and my oxapax as needed is increasing as now almost every day 7,5 Mg one or 2 times a day

And I just get little relief.

The only thing that helps is being aktive all the time. And it is like driving with the gas and break all the time

 

I am told that I have a rapid cycling depression induced by the many years of medication.

The symptoms above is why I  

I think I make it worse by tapering too quickly.

 

Please can you give som adwise  on how long to hold and if the cycling symptoms continue even  if I keep holding - when to start tapering again?

[ChessieCat]

One of the other mods will check in a soon as they are able.

[HAa]

Thank you. 🙂

[Gridley]

 

I suggest you hold for at least three months to allow your central nervous system to stabilize.  Then let's look at how you're doing.

 

When it's time to taper again (which may be longer than 3 months), you should only taper the Effexor, while continuing to hold on the other medications.  We recommend tapering only one medication at a time because if you have problems it's not possible to say which which taper is causing the problem.  We recommend tapering the most activating medication first, in your case the Effexor.

 

But for now just hold.

 

Have you tried omega fish oil and magnesium?  Many members find these calming to the nervous system.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Gridley

[Altostrata]

On 9/21/2018 at 2:19 AM, HAa said:

19.9

5.30am

Woke Rumination crying anxius

7am

Ate and meds (Effexor XR75 mg, Buspiron 3 mg Lamotrigin 200 mg)

11.30am 7,5 mg oxapax due to

anxious rumination

Extreme restless and crying

12am Lunch

6pm roing and at ease rest of the day

5pm dinner 

8pm 3,5 mg buspiron

10.30pm To bed. Slept all night

 

20.9.

5.30amWoke at ease

7am breakfast and meds

12am lunch

12am am 7,5 oxapax as anxiety and crying is building up

1pm relief 

3pm restless and crying Got a hug and had some relief - dinner

4pm roing and at ease

5.45pm anxiety crying restless

18.20pm 7,5 mg oxapax due to ekstreeem anxiety ruminating restless Can’t contain myself. 

7pm relief moderate anxiety 

7.15 3,5 mg Buspiron and snack

10.30pm Moderate anxiety To bed. Leg muskuls twitzing. Slept all night

 

21/9.

5.30am Woke anxiety crying can’t sit still restless Can’t contain myself. Went to bed trying to calm down

7am 1/2 mg oxapax No reliefs 

8am breakfast and meds.

9am Got a hug and talked to therapist got some relief. Moderate sadness and crying

12am Lunch

 

Is the above the things I should write here in order to see if there is any pattern?

 

Haa, why do you take 3 drugs, Effexor, buspirone, lamotrigine at the same time, 8 a.m.? Have you always taken them together?

 

Have your symptoms changed since you reduced lamotrigine August 22?

 

It looks like you've been taking oxazepam before noon frequently lately. Please be sure to note when you take oxazepam. When did the mid-morning crying and anxiety start?

 

What does the mid-morning "anxiety" feel like? What kinds of thoughts do you get? Are you crying because the symptoms scare you?

 

Please try not to take oxazepam at all, and don't take it after noon. The drug is asking you to take more of it. That way lies dependency.

[HAa]

Thank you so much. So very usefull and easy to understand. 

I agree that I need a brake and it was comforting to read your adwise. 

I am taking fish oil and magnesium. And eating salmon and herring every day. 

I will try to cope with the adverse effect in more natural ways. 

Now it is 8.15pm in Denmark and I get some relief.

 

Any ideer why it is so that during the day I am in such a state and in the evenings I find myself more at ease?

[Altostrata]

HAa, I need your answers to these questions:

 

38 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Haa, why do you take 3 drugs, Effexor, buspirone, lamotrigine at the same time, 8 a.m.? Have you always taken them together?

 

Have your symptoms changed since you reduced lamotrigine August 22?

 

It looks like you've been taking oxazepam before noon frequently lately. Please be sure to note when you take oxazepam. When did the mid-morning crying and anxiety start?

 

What does the mid-morning "anxiety" feel like? What kinds of thoughts do you get? Are you crying because the symptoms scare you?

 

[HAa]

20 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Haa, why do you take 3 drugs, Effexor, buspirone, lamotrigine at the same time, 8 a.m.? Have you always taken them together?

 

Have your symptoms changed since you reduced lamotrigine August 22?

 

It looks like you've been taking oxazepam before noon frequently lately. Please be sure to note when you take oxazepam. When did the mid-morning crying and anxiety start?

 

What does the mid-morning "anxiety" feel like? What kinds of thoughts do you get? Are you crying because the symptoms scare you?

 

Please try not to take oxazepam at all, and don't take it after noon. The drug is asking you to take more of it. That way lies dependency.

 

Effexor and Buspiron I have always taken in the morning for the last 20 years

 

When I was prescribed lamotrigin a cople of yeas ago it was also for the morning.

 

I reduced lamotrigin for 14 days and it was pure hell getting worse every day. Then I reinstalled to 200 mg again.

The symptoms is somewhat less after reinstalling. Although I am still more anxious and restless wich have increased over the last year. 

 

The pattern of symptoms is the same as it has been for serveral years. 

Some days a wake with ekstreem anxiety and some days the anxiety, restlessness and crying comes midmorning. As in I can’t contain myself. 

Then useually around 10pm I settle down. 

I do write down in my calendar every time I take oxapax - and as you can see It has been increasing the days over a month when I need them. I absolutely just use it when I can’t activate myself out of the restless anxiety. So yes I am worried too. 

 

The anxiety is hart beating, pressure inside, agitation really restlessness. Can’t sit still.

The thoughts are in turmoil and I both worry if this is ever getting better and what I can do to find some rest and rumination on why I feel so empty and feel I have to borrow life from my friends as I don’t feel I have one myself.

I am scared that I can’t hold on and get through this.

i am remembering al the times as a child when I was abanded and all the times during my life when I felt the same as now. It is just that now there are no good periods which I had plenty of before this started getting worse 6 years ago.

 

I cry and I mostly don’t know why. Sometimes I cry because I am so much in pain. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

When you take several drugs at one time and then get an adverse reaction, it's impossible to tell which drug is causing it.

 

Lamotrigine is a funny drug. Take too much at once, and it's an accelerator. I think that's what's happening, too much lamotrigine in the morning, with the other drugs. My guess is you are having a paradoxical reaction to lamotrigine (this may have started when you began taking it).

 

Splitting the lamotrigine dose can help. I would try this: Move 100mg of the lamotrigine dose to the evening. Do this by moving 100mg an hour later each day until you are taking it at 8 p.m.

 

We need to know if this changes your symptom pattern. Keep notes each day and let us know how you're doing.

 

If this guess is correct, you will feel less need for oxezepam to combat the adverse reaction from lamotrigine. (Take the oxazepam as infrequently as possible.)

[HAa]

I will try to split the dosis of lamotrigin. 

 

The symptomspattern has been the same all the time - but getting worse during the last yeas as mentioned.

 

So it is worth trying. Thank you I will return with the result of splitting the dosis. 

 

I do have the symptoms through out the day and until late evenings but I often manege without oxapax by keeping being active all the time. 

 

But it still it is defenitly with a try

[HAa]

I think that I have a negative / adverse effect of Effexor.

is it possible that thise symptoms just get worse the longer I take the Effexor? That is tricky if so. 

I got on lamotrigin because the restless anxiety and need to be active. It was seen as a adverse effect of Effexor and Buspiron. A bipolar reaction to the meds. 

 

Forgot to say that I had the symptoms before I started tapering. I started tapering because I got it worse. 

[HAa]

My symptoms have not changed after splitting the dose of lamotrigin, I really hoped the restlessness, turmoil, the crying and feeling empty and meningslessness would diminish.

 

The symptoms I have is the same I have had increasingly during the last 6-7 years.

Except I am now waking early again and with more anxiety.Some days it will settle a little down on off during the day. I have hardly any effect of the 7,5 mg oxapax at the moment, and I do know that the effect will diminish when taken every or every other day. 

 

Could it be adversed effect on effexor as it never helped on the anxiety in the first place and that was why buspiron was added on thise 20 years ago. I then on off had good periods, but now there is only smal windows during the day, if any.

 

So I don't think, that what I have of symptoms will diminish, even if I hold for a longer period of time, as it increased before I started tapering. But honestly I don't know what to do as one hour feels like forever.

 

I am doing all the recommended in how to cope, and it seems that nothing is helping, except activating and distracting myself. And I am worn out. As if gaspedal and brake is on at the same time.