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neroli: is this benzo withdrawal, or other drugs interacting


neroli

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Thinking of you Neroli!💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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Dear

 

@Carmie @Rosetta @Rabe

 

Thank you all for sending your kind thoughts.  It is good to get a few words of encouragement or comfort from people who understand the things we go through, so know that you have given me some solidarity to hold on to at the end of a particularly disheartening and draining day.  I cried a few tears when I saw your messages.  I do mostly stay positive - and when I'm at work I act as though there is nothing wrong - but it does get a bit too much and I'm sick of being like this with no certainty of relief or recovery.

 

So, yesterday, I was pretty chipper, my reduction in Nortriptyline (another 2.5mg taken off this week, the second such cut in two weeks) seemed to be going without any major hiccups.  I had the sense that at last I was on a road to taking the drug load down and getting my legs back.  I spoke to a friend on the phone and she said I sounded so much more buoyant in myself, not as if I was just putting it on so that I didn't upset friends.  

 

In the evening, though, my legs felt a lot tighter and heavy than they had for the previous week.  And today they have been very heavy and I'm getting more hip and leg muscle aches.  (The feeling is like I've done a hefty 9-hour hike and my muscles are achy and tight, or another way of expressing it is that it's like I'm wading through waist-high water all the time).  My spirit has gone down in inverse proportion to the increase in the difficulty with my legs and fatigue.  It is the fourth day since my last cut, so I'm guessing that it could be withdrawal - and am hoping that it is and will even out again fairly soon.  I have decided that I will not do another cut next week, I will hold in hopes that my body will catch up and I get some more strength back.

 

And here's something that has been bothering me since last night and all day today.  I read about stabilising before tapering on The Withdrawal Project (Laura Delano's site).  It was basically saying that it could be risky and make things worse if you began tapering before the system has re-stabiised from whatever put it into this state.  So, to go back a bit, when I was drug-free and going through the windows and waves in 2016, I noticed towards the end of that year that my legs seemed to be feeling weaker.  I took it as yet another aspect of recovery from being mushed up by the meds. and was a bit perturbed but thought it would pass with time and I"d come out of that wave to a place of more strength.  But what happened was that I had two major panic attacks, and after one of them I took 1mg of Lorazepam so that I felt confident enough to make the 2-hour commute home.  I went back to work the next day but couldn't do the whole day, feeling very wobbly and weak.  I may have taken another Lorazepam.  Two days later I crashed physically and my legs have never recovered since - I would even hazard to say they have got worse over the last year and a half.  Because of the aweful anxiety I was also experiencing in early 2017 I went back on to psych. meds (I was taking Lorazepam at intervals to cope with the anxiety - getting to the point where I was almost chewing Lorazepam and Zopiclone to cope with the anxiety and insomnia).  I decided to go on Escitalopram because I'd read someone had been twenty months out from a successful taper and had crashed with intense anxiety and reinstating on Escitalopram had helped (it wasn't her original drug).  I took a gamble.  That didn't do the trick, so I accepted going on to Nortriptyline, which did eventually help with sleep so I could cut out the zopiclone.  By this time, though, the Lorazepam was probably making the inter-dose anxiety worse and I crossed over to Diazepam so that I could even out the anxiety spikes and taper more easily from that.

 

Shep had mentioned that maybe the weak legs was my "signature" withdrawal effect and that it might be the last thing to resolve.  From that, and the diagnosis of Functional Neurological Disorder, I extrapolated that my nervous system is still not stabilised.  But I also don't know if the med. combo I'm on now is adding to the problem with my legs.

 

I'm caught wondering if I should hold everything until, maybe, my system stabilises and that means the legs will get better - then I start a taper, which could be months/years away.   Or if the meds are aggravating the situation and I should keep reducing at a rate I can handle (really slow).  I doubt anyone could answer the conundrum for me; I've even thought of going back to the psychiatrist to ask him if he can help me understand what might be happening but given that he dismissed the protracted withdrawal out of hand in my initial consultations and tried me, seemingly willy-nilly, on drugs, I don't have a lot of confidence that he has enough understanding of the effects of the drugs to propose anything useful.  I could be wrong, though, I may be dong him an injustice.

 

Whatever, yet again I'm in the land of uncertainty and feeling pretty down.  The lack of ability to really exercise or do anything which takes a bit more energy than I've got (eg. a bit of weeding) is getting to me.  I'm putting on weight, desperately trying to not eat more even though I have almost constant hunger pangs, and am growing out of my clothes.

 

Tomorrow, I need to do grocery shopping, and if my legs are bad enough that I can't do that, I shall know that I've deteriorated somewhat.  That is my rock-bottom activity, if that goes, I'm in a creek without a paddle.

 

Of course, it could be withdrawal effects and I may have more strength tomorrow and in the following days.

 

I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you all - I'm not in a good frame of mind.  I thank you for listening especially as you are all facing such difficult situations yourselves.

 

Wishing you all the very best, with heartfelt thanks for your messages.

 

Neroli 💜

 

 

 

 

 

 

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Hi Neroli, 

I had same problems with weak/tired legs during my withdrawal from citalopram! 

I was terrified that of some permanent damage, but then I listen to Claire audios that these symptoms are just due to nervous fatigue and that nothing is wrong with our muscles tenonds ect! 

So I was just keep going with my usual tasks, if I was getting tired I just getting some rest for a while, and then keep going again, not worrying about it. 

Gradually within several months the symptoms were subsiding, and when my nervous system finally relaxed, these symptoms vanished! 

Now for a year I am fine, doing mountain trails for hours, and enjoying my life. 

Take care 

Kostas 

Citalopram 20 mg

Mid June 1994- end March 1995 Then tapering 3 months 

Mid August 1995-end August 1996 Tapering 6 months 

Mid January 2000-end September 2001 Tapering 6 months

Mid October 2003-end October 2005 Tapering 7 years. 

More detailed drug history is here - ☼-kostas

Off any drug from October 2012 

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Hi Neroli...I want to say that what you said near the end about is this from tapering or is it the CNS still destabilized is where I find myself...though I SO wish I could put on weight.  I seem to not be able to ingest fats which makes it hard,  If I do absolutely nothing I eventually get some better...then I get out and do some things...not a lot for sure compared to what I used to do even months ago, but just doing that little bit for a day or 2 I find myself so fatigued and or anxious and depressed and stiff and sore and all you are talking about...and yes unable to get groceries.  

 

So I too wonder if I ought to continue t hold or if the issues are in some ways related to the meds and I ought to slowly move off them in spite of everything.  I find that in the mornings I am clearer but once I start meds and start eating and doing Im like a wind up doll....as the day goes on I wind down. Kind of occasional spurts in the day and then at night but thats it.  

It is hard to know isn't it?  And my doctor has not a clue and just still believes if I were taken off both I would be fine in couple weeks..but grateful he goes along.

 

Please know that I am thinking about you.  Try holding and resting as much as you can and see where that brings you do you think?  If you find yourself getting better with that perhaps would be good to hold longer in between tapers or hold for awhile.  If thats not the case then perhaps continue with a slow slow taper.  I know the mods will help you.  

Im so sorry you are struggling!!!  I just related so to your  canundrum and wanted you to know you are not alone!!!  Love and hugs!!!!

 

Becky

Edited by ChessieCat
removed UL and added sp

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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And I have read along the way about many people in the same place...wondering which is best.  I have been told more than once when in doubt hold.

So I do feel that where you are seems to be a place many find themselves?   I think from my journey here...and I feel others will chime in as well and share their thoughts.  💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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Hi Neroli - I so understand your questions regarding stability and if it is best to taper or hold.  I also worry a lot about tapering with a nervous system that has become destabilized.  Either way, I am hopeful you will balance back to your baseline as your brain adjusts to the taper and you can confer with the moderators to see what might be best going forward.  I am thinking about you, Neroli, and really hoping you see some improvements soon.  

-1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper (essentially CT); withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD)

-10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin after 4 mos. Several unsuccessful slow tapers of Zoloft; went up and down in dose a lot

-Spring 2013 back on 1 mg Klonopin to counter WD symptoms; switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to 35 mg citalopram
-Two attempts at slow tapering citalopram, always increased dose due to WD; also increased Klonopin to 1.25 mg in 2014, then to 1.5 mg in 2015

-8/17-9/17: After holding one year at 20 mg, feeling withdrawal symptoms due to stress - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?)  - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg).

Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin

Citalopram taper:  2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg I 2021: 7.8 mg - 5.26 mg I 2022: 5.2 mg - 3.36 mg I 2023: 3.3 mg - 1.47 mg 2024: 1/5/24: 1.44 mg; 1/19/24: 1.40 mg; 1/26/24: 1.37 mg; 2/2/24: 1.34 mg; 2/9/24: 1.31 mg; 2/23/24: 1.28 mg; 3/1/24: 1.25 mg; 3/8/24: 1.22 mg; 3/15/24: 1.19 mg

 

 

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Oh, Neroli, I had lead legs for a while about a year ago, and I don't know when they stopped feeling like lead.  I was on no meds at all, of course, but I had the symptom months after stopping meds.  Maybe that means its a withdrawal symptom that will resolve who knows when?  

 

I think that almost all our symptoms are caused by the brain failing to signal when it should or signaling when it shouldn't.  I believe that lead legs is caused by the lack of a signal from the brain.  You try to tell your legs to move, and the brain can't follow through.  We have voluntary and involuntary muscles.  Both are affected by destabilization aka dysautonomia.  If the proper hormones, neurotransmitters, etc are not available, our bodies don't work properly.  This is true whether we are trying to use our legs (voluntary) or our bowels (involuntary) or our hearts (involuntary) or our lungs (involuntary).  Shortness of breath, taking a sudden big breath, feeling our hearts being "zapped," having bathroom troubles -- all these symptoms are due to involuntary muscle dysfunction.  I think that voluntary muscle dysfunction occurs as well, and not only in the form of spasms or dystonia or dyskinesia.  

 

So many of my symptoms have come and gone and come again, but not the lead legs.  Sometimes, I feel slightly like lead all over, but I get up and do the minimum without that strong feeling that I'm walking uphill.  It's a weaker feeling of being unable to move as quickly as I intend to move.. I tend to think lead legs are going to very slowly get better for you like all symptoms.  I feel, intuitively, that holding is your best option.  I think that intuitive feeling is based on the long period of time I've been struggling with my voluntary muscles twitching, spasming, or becoming hard as rocks, as well as my involuntary muscles failing to work or the opposite -- stranding me in the bathroom for a hour -- although I've been off meds 20 months.

 

Hugs, R

 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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13 hours ago, Kostas said:

I had same problems with weak/tired legs during my withdrawal from citalopram! 

I was terrified that of some permanent damage, but then I listen to Claire audios that these symptoms are just due to nervous fatigue and that nothing is wrong with our muscles tenonds ect!

Hello Kostas

 

Kind of you to drop in.

 

Thank you for your message and the affirmation that this can all get right again, I appreciate it.  The neurological tests I had done showed that there is nothing wrong with my muscles or nerve tissues - they just said that my brain in sending the wrong messages to my muscles, that is what they call Functional Neurological Disorder.  One day, I hope, my brain will send the right messages.

 

I'm pleased to hear you have recovered and can do your mountain walks now.  That is something to hope for.

 

Best wishes

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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8 hours ago, Rabe said:

I want to say that what you said near the end about is this from tapering or is it the CNS still destabilized is where I find myself...though I SO wish I could put on weight.  I seem to not be able to ingest fats which makes it hard,  If I do absolutely nothing I eventually get some better...then I get out and do some things...not a lot for sure compared to what I used to do even months ago, but just doing that little bit for a day or 2 I find myself so fatigued and or anxious and depressed and stiff and sore and all you are talking about...and yes unable to get groceries.  

Dear Rabe

 

I do feel for you - we are similar but I think you are having more difficulty - it just sucks :(  I did get my groceries - did it at 7.00am before I lost confidence in my legs.  There's a bit of cosmic irony that you are trying to gain weight and I am worried about just that.  I guess we are both bearing with alimentary issues - you can hardly keep anything down and I am constantly hungry.  What these drugs do to us.....

 

My legs are at about 6 now for aches and leadenness.  So I am resting as much as I can - knitting, doing a bit of reading and listening to the radio.

 

It seems from what you say that a number of people face the same predicament as to whether to hold or taper.  At least I know I'm not alone in this, then.  And that we all have to find our own way - which will take many trials and errors (hopefully not too many of those).  But the way forward appears to be....go very carefully.  Thank you for reminding me of this. it's useful to hear it from someone else when one seems stuck in the mire.

 

I do hope you find you get some better days soon, you are dealing with a lot of symptoms.  Amazing how you cope with it all - you have my admiration.

 

Thinking of you, too and sending lots of best wishes over the pacific.

 

Neroli 💜

 

 

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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8 hours ago, wantrelief said:

I so understand your questions regarding stability and if it is best to taper or hold.  I also worry a lot about tapering with a nervous system that has become destabilized.  Either way, I am hopeful you will balance back to your baseline as your brain adjusts to the taper and you can confer with the moderators to see what might be best going forward.  I am thinking about you, Neroli, and really hoping you see some improvements soon.  

Hello Wantrelief

 

Ah...another fellow traveller, standing at the fork in the road wondering which direction to take - with only pieces of a map and compass to try to solve the puzzle.  I'm not glad you are in the same position but it sure has comforted me to know that I'm not the only one at this place.  Why on earth did I have the idea that everyone else was tapering from a nicely stable CNS anyway?????  Must be mad. :)

 

Thank you for your hopes for me regaining some balance - lovely of you to think of me.  I send you all at the best wishes I can muster for your continued careful taper and progress to wellness.

 

Neroli 💜

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I tend to think lead legs are going to very slowly get better for you like all symptoms.  I feel, intuitively, that holding is your best option.  I think that intuitive feeling is based on the long period of time I've been struggling with my voluntary muscles twitching, spasming, or becoming hard as rocks, as well as my involuntary muscles failing to work or the opposite -- stranding me in the bathroom for a hour -- although I've been off meds 20 months

Hello Rosetta

 

Soooo frustrating that you've been off for 20 months and are still getting these symptoms.  I know a bit how that feels - I was off for  2 years (well, I tried a reinstatement about a year in when I got bad anxiety, so it wasn't a full 2 years) and it was symptoms every day similar to yours with anxiety and insomnia.  The reinstatement was probably a bad idea....oh it's no use going down that track, can't take it back and I did the only thing I thought I could with the knowledge I had.  The Drs sure didn't have any better knowledge than me.

 

I think you're right - holding is the way to go.  The dysautonomia thing is interesting - I do get occasions where I take a big sudden breath in.  Hmmm, hadn't related it to the overall effect of the brain sending the wrong messages.

 

I did at least get my groceries today - that's a relief.  Tomorrow's "major" project is getting to the hairdresser for a trim after lunch which is when I start to get really tired.

 

Hoping you are pulling out of the wave, you seemed to have some relief in the past couple of days.

 

Thinking of you and very appreciative that you popped in with support.

 

Neroli 💜

 

 

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment
17 hours ago, Kostas said:

but then I listen to Claire audios

Hello Kostas

 

I forgot to ask, what audios are these?

 

Many thanks

 

Neroli 😎 (sunglasses for your eyes in all your sunshine)

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

There are many YouTube videos if you type in Claire Weekes.

 

These are the links to the longer videos/audio book.  Not sure if they are different:

 

 

 

 

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

Link to comment

Neroli have you tried any support hose at all?  I know that sometimes my legs ache and those help me...other times not so much but usually they help.  My personal theory is that, as Rosetta said, our muscles are all affected and I dont think they are as strong sometimes and perhaps are not helping circulation as much as they could.  Do you ever get any swelling at all?  I sometimes get minimal...but I have to say the stockings do help on those days.  Just a thought.  Wish there was one to put over my whole body on the days my whole body feels like lead and is so so tired!!!!;)

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

There are many YouTube videos if you type in Claire Weekes.

Thank you Chessie Cat.  These will probably complement the ACT therapy I'm doing - the idea being to not pile more anxiety on top of the symptoms and creating heightened symptoms.

 

I appreciate your response and support.

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Rabe said:

Neroli have you tried any support hose at all?

Hello Rabe/Becky

 

No I haven't tried them - it's an idea I guess and I may have a go, though pretty resistant to wearing any pantyhose or tights - can't bear them round my waist and feeling all swaddled up in them.  I'll bear it in mind.  I don't get swelling - so am grateful for that.

 

You have reminded me that I was going to search out a mobile masseur to come to my house and give me leg massages - I'll do some searching around in the next couple of days.

 

Thanks for bringing in some more ideas of coping with the legs.

 

Big dollops of warm wishes to you - and to lessening of the body fatigue.

 

Neroli 💜

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Strange thought in a tired mind - That's a beautiful explanation of neuroemotions by Claire Weekes. 

 

Massage could really help Neroli. Not only with the pain but human touch is so calming and grounding... Have to go for it myself :)

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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8 hours ago, neroli said:

Hello Kostas

 

I forgot to ask, what audios are these?

 

Many thanks

 

Neroli 😎 (sunglasses for your eyes in all your sunshine)

Hi again, 

These were two audio books by Dr. Claire Weekes, called hope and help for your nerves, and freedom from nervous suffering, bought through audible. 

Very very helpful and informative for our situation! 

Best regards 

Citalopram 20 mg

Mid June 1994- end March 1995 Then tapering 3 months 

Mid August 1995-end August 1996 Tapering 6 months 

Mid January 2000-end September 2001 Tapering 6 months

Mid October 2003-end October 2005 Tapering 7 years. 

More detailed drug history is here - ☼-kostas

Off any drug from October 2012 

Link to comment

@bubble @Kostas

 

Thank you so much for your comments and support.

 

Hope you are both doing ok/fine

 

Much appreciation

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment

Note to me:

 

Today - worn out and anxious/depressed.  Hard to focus and do productive work.  Hard to relax.

 

Must look at my symptom diary to see if there is a pattern.  Maybe the Nortriptyline cuts catching up with me.  Tempted to hold till the end of the year and see if that helps with mood/fatigue/anxiety.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment

Hello Moderators

 

I took a 2.5mg cut in Nortriptyline on 15 October, then another 2.5mg on 22 October,  I've held since because symptoms seemed to get worse, more anxiety, wobblier  and legs.  Now I've got insomnia (sleep till about 2 am then its just a light doze).  If I make an update, I should do it at 2.5mg instead of the whole 5mg shouldn't I?  Go steady rather than put the whole chunk back.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:50 AM, neroli said:

Tempted to hold till the end of the year and see if that helps with mood/fatigue/anxiety.

 

I have this little trick: I tell myself let's wait for a week and see what happens. I don't have to commit for months ahead. Things can change for better or worse quickly... I would definitely hold now. You tried cutting and symptoms definitely got more pronounced. So holding and proceeding with more caution seem to be in order. Sometimes it happens that if we stabilize enough (provided we can) the subsequent cuts get easier. Or we can cut more frequently and bigger percentages at certain doses. So the current pace doesn't mean that this will be our pace for the whole of the journey. In the meantime it helps to focus on the things we still can do (and not on how much we have been restricted and impaired). Also how much we are reducing our drug load and how we finally know the true nature of these drugs and how to handle them (unlike so many people).

 

23 hours ago, neroli said:

If I make an update, I should do it at 2.5mg instead of the whole 5mg shouldn't I?  Go steady rather than put the whole chunk back.

 

Maybe you will be able to ride this out without an updose… Could you update your signature with your latest cuts? If you decide to updose definitely don't add the whole 5 mg but only 2.5 mg. Your brain has already done some adjustments. The reason I don't really like frequent cuts is that I don't know how long after they will catch up with me and feel lost in my taper...

 

But you are experimenting and trying to find what works best for you. A very important piece of information was how soon after the cut I experience the symptoms. When I feel them and observe them, see how they come and go I feel more in control. I also noticed that if symptoms appear very soon after the cut it means my brain can't handle it and it was too soon.

 

ps. I have fixed the years in your opening post so you can now delete that sentences from your signature and add the info about you latest cuts ;)

 

I hope things are going well. Keep us posted. 

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Hello Bubble. thank you so much for your encouragement - I admit it does feel like there is no way out of this rabbit hole at the moment.  I'm going to work soon, so I just wanted to acknowledge your message.  I did updose by 2.5mg last night, I guess I should stay with that now and not keep fiddling around.  I'll update my signature later.  And thanks so much for editing my original post - that's so kind of you.

 

Wishing you all the best - I see from your thread that you've been feeling a bit stuck, too.  

 

Many thanks

 

Neroli 💜

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Feeling a bit stuck is a very nice way of putting it....:)

 

Yes, I would give the updose a chance. Will take 4 days to fully register

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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13 hours ago, bubble said:

The reason I don't really like frequent cuts is that I don't know how long after they will catch up with me and feel lost in my taper...

 

But you are experimenting and trying to find what works best for you. A very important piece of information was how soon after the cut I experience the symptoms. When I feel them and observe them, see how they come and go I feel more in control. I also noticed that if symptoms appear very soon after the cut it means my brain can't handle it and it was too soon.

yes, Bubble, you are right, I'm experimenting and trying to find what is right.  I may have updosed a little too easily - scared because I felt my legs getting stiffer and I got more insomnia.  The interesting thing is that it was longer than week or so before things seemed to get worse.  

 

13 hours ago, bubble said:

Sometimes it happens that if we stabilize enough (provided we can) the subsequent cuts get easier. Or we can cut more frequently and bigger percentages at certain doses. So the current pace doesn't mean that this will be our pace for the whole of the journey

This is soooo heartening to hear.

 

Thank you.

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Hi Neroli - You wrote the following on my thread: 

 

"I am very proud of myself because yesterday I upgraded my operating system on my laptop and when it had finished installing I was faced with a screensaver asking me to put in a password - I couldn't even remember having one in the first place.  So I had to get my mobile phone and find the contact number for technical support (ever tried to find a phone number to talk to an actual person?) but I eventually got through and followed the technician's instructions and got back into my computer.  I'm proud because I kept my stress under control and told myself repeatedly not to get hot under the collar about it, just take it step by step".  

 

I wanted to congratulate you on this as I can only imagine how difficult that task was (it would be for me too!), especially when not feeling well.  It is great you were able to keep your stress under control and got through what needed to be done.

 

How have you been feeling?  I hope you've noticed some improvements.

 

Thinking about you,

WR.

-1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper (essentially CT); withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD)

-10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin after 4 mos. Several unsuccessful slow tapers of Zoloft; went up and down in dose a lot

-Spring 2013 back on 1 mg Klonopin to counter WD symptoms; switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to 35 mg citalopram
-Two attempts at slow tapering citalopram, always increased dose due to WD; also increased Klonopin to 1.25 mg in 2014, then to 1.5 mg in 2015

-8/17-9/17: After holding one year at 20 mg, feeling withdrawal symptoms due to stress - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?)  - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg).

Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin

Citalopram taper:  2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg I 2021: 7.8 mg - 5.26 mg I 2022: 5.2 mg - 3.36 mg I 2023: 3.3 mg - 1.47 mg 2024: 1/5/24: 1.44 mg; 1/19/24: 1.40 mg; 1/26/24: 1.37 mg; 2/2/24: 1.34 mg; 2/9/24: 1.31 mg; 2/23/24: 1.28 mg; 3/1/24: 1.25 mg; 3/8/24: 1.22 mg; 3/15/24: 1.19 mg

 

 

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Hello WR

 

Thank you for popping over to my place!  Yes, it was a big deal to keep my stress under control - computer stuff can be so boggling. I'm amazed I found a human to talk me through it, instead of being directed to FAQs on a website!

 

I updosed 2.5mg on the Nortriptyline on Sunday, I was getting insomnia and felt my legs were worse - I think we talked about it, getting scared about symptoms and so updosing again.

 

Yesterday, I felt quite bright and relaxed, managed to laugh and talk at work.  Today, back in the slammer again - exhausted, muscles getting achier, legs stiffer and tears - utter horror at the thought of how many years of this may be ahead. So, bring myself back to the present moment again and think of all the things I can still do. If I get a decent sleep tonight, I may well feel brighter again tomorrow.  Such a bl**dy hamster wheel.

 

I'll pop over and see how you are doing but I hope things are going relatively well for you.

 

Very much appreciate you getting in touch.

 

(((((WR))))) - I think that means hugs, doesn't it?

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Hi Nerola...so happy to hear yesterday was bright...that is a gift.  It is SO lovely to have such a time isn't it?  But then so hard when it vanishes.  I hope for more bright moments for you NerolI!!!  💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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Thank you so much, Rabe.  It is a gift and when it happens, I think I've got this thing licked and I'm on a smooth path from now on.  Then the next day is so different and as I've said it feels like such a grind again.

 

I do write the good bits in a book, so I can go back and read what I can be grateful for.

 

I do hope you are doing ok - you've had a mighty time sorting out your meds.  Enough to fry an already frazzled drug-befuddled brain.  Good on you for your tenacity.

 

Wishing you all the best

 

Neroli 💜

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Hi Neroli,

 

9 hours ago, neroli said:

Yesterday, I felt quite bright and relaxed, managed to laugh and talk at work.  Today, back in the slammer again - exhausted, muscles getting achier, legs stiffer and tears - utter horror at the thought of how many years of this may be ahead. So, bring myself back to the present moment again and think of all the things I can still do. If I get a decent sleep tonight, I may well feel brighter again tomorrow.  Such a bl**dy hamster wheel.

 

It is good to know you can have good days (your description of your day sounded wonderful).  But oh it must be so hard when it falls back again.  I am hoping with time things will even out as your brain adjusts to the updose.  I too get overwhelmed when I think of how many years ahead I have and the uncertainty of it all.  In these moments (which can be frequent), I try to do what you do and just get back to the present moment or move my mind to something else.....sometimes can be easier said than done though!

 

You are doing great, Neroli.  Hang in there.

 

Many hugs back to you!

-1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper (essentially CT); withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD)

-10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin after 4 mos. Several unsuccessful slow tapers of Zoloft; went up and down in dose a lot

-Spring 2013 back on 1 mg Klonopin to counter WD symptoms; switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to 35 mg citalopram
-Two attempts at slow tapering citalopram, always increased dose due to WD; also increased Klonopin to 1.25 mg in 2014, then to 1.5 mg in 2015

-8/17-9/17: After holding one year at 20 mg, feeling withdrawal symptoms due to stress - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?)  - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg).

Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin

Citalopram taper:  2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg I 2021: 7.8 mg - 5.26 mg I 2022: 5.2 mg - 3.36 mg I 2023: 3.3 mg - 1.47 mg 2024: 1/5/24: 1.44 mg; 1/19/24: 1.40 mg; 1/26/24: 1.37 mg; 2/2/24: 1.34 mg; 2/9/24: 1.31 mg; 2/23/24: 1.28 mg; 3/1/24: 1.25 mg; 3/8/24: 1.22 mg; 3/15/24: 1.19 mg

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Neroli, 

 

Just wanted to stay I hope you stabilise soon from your updose.

 

Did you end up trying Rabe’s suggestion about the support hose? I hate pantyhose too n even leggings, I feel too restricted in them like you. You mentioned feeling swaddled in them. Yep, me too. 

 

I was just just wondering if you could get some that didn’t go up to your waist? Or cut them off n get get some suspenders to keep them up? I don’t know if they need to go up to your waist for the support but if they don’t you could always try them just on your legs. It can’t hurt. Everything we do is trial n error but sometimes we come across something that might help a little.

 

I’m so sorry you have such trouble with your legs. Did you end up finding  a mobile massage therapist for your legs?

 

Hope you’re coping okay, sending hugs🤗

 

 

 

 

 

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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Hello @Carmie

 

Nice to hear from you.  I think I may be stabilising from the updose - I've had alternate up and down days this week.  Today has been an up one.  I managed to get my own groceries (last week I asked my neighbour to take me, I didn't feel confident).  I've done two bouts of weeding for 15 mins., let out some trousers (weight going on with lack of exercise, I think), knitted, read some of a book called Living Well With Pain and Illness by Vidyamala Burch (which is a perfect fit with the Acceptance and Commitment therapy I'm doing), 15 mins. piano practice, a 6-minute body mindfulness meditation, and cooked myself a different tea to the plain food I normally eat nowadays (an un-spicy curry).  So today was good.  we'll see how tomorrow goes....  The best bit about it was feeling some energy and motivation to do this stuff.

 

No haven't thought any further about support hose - it's not for me at the moment - I may re-visit it later if I get worse.  Haven't been able to find a mobile masseur, the ones I contact two weeks ago haven't responded!  I phoned a place to see if I could get in for a massage today and the are closed with family illness for a while.  The stars aren't quite lined up right yet!

 

I went to see my psychiatrist last week.  The psychologist I have been seeing, every time I mention medications to put some context round what I am feeling and doing, she says if I want to talk about meds. I should see the psychiatrist who is the expert on medications.  So, I made the appointment.  I asked three questions: 1) Of the three drugs I'm taking now, which one or ones might be contributing to my legs feeling heavier and my muscles aching more now., 2) What drugs could be causing the almost constant hunger pangs, anxiety and having to wee ever 15 mins or so, 3) If I'm to continue trying to reduce, what interactions do I need to be aware of, eg. if the liver enzymes are involved and reducing one causes another to be metabolised faster and cause a potential bad reaction.

 

His answers were: 1) Don't know, 2) Don't know, except Nortriptyline causes weight gain, 3) Don't know.

 

He did say I might still be dealing with my underlying condition, which when I asked him which one he was referring to (given that he'd diagnosed major depression with agitation when I first went in there with the crash from being messed about by a-ds and then cold turkeying), he did refer to whether it was as I said and my condition was due to drug damage and that he had possibly, unwittingly, made things worse.  So at least he didn't BS.  He asked what I'd wanted to get out of the going to see him, since we'd agreed I'd keep on the doses I was on and had discharged me previously.  I said I'd wanted his medical expertise to help me with a possible way to progress.  He said they were very specific questions that he could not answer, and even if there were lots of studies he could refer to, even then it might not be anything that would help me as everyone is so individual.  He said he'd never known anyone to have such difficulty coming off the drugs.  And, in a parting gesture, postulated that my close gaze on the drugs and their effects might actually be distracting me from the ACT therapy and dealing with the ramifications of the Functional Neurological Disorder which has been diagnosed.(oh, and didn't wholly agree with his interpretation of what the neurologist had said but then I don't know what communication he was referring, so could have got mixed messages on that).

 

At least now when I go to see the psychologist and if I mention meds. and she says I should talk to the psychiatrist, I can say, yep, been there, done that.

 

It's been an interesting week........

 

So, I hope you are ok and coping.  It's been a hard road for you and I am in awe that you have managed your huge reducition in Seroquel.

 

Warm wishes from a warmer Welly, across the ditch.

 

Neroli 💜

 

 

 

 

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Neroli, 

 

So glad to hear you’re stabilising a little. That’s always an amazing feeling, isn’t it? You sound like you’ve found lots of distractions too. I don’t have a garden but quite a few of my friends are really good gardeners n they find it extremely therapeutic.

 

What do you put in your unspicy curry? Sounds yum. I love Thai food but don’t eat a lot of it as the curry doesn’t always agree with me. It’s funny, if I eat it all the time I’m fine, but if I only eat it occasionally my tummy is not happy. 

 

Wow, you play the piano, that’s fabulous! A friend of mine is learning the piano. She’s really sick n she finds it a good distraction, this is one of my friends who is also into gardening n is an amazing cook n seamstress. 

 

Typical answer from doctors: “Don’t know, don’t know, don’t know.” I have major trust issues now with doctors. I don’t trust them with anything. Once burnt, twice shy! Your doctor saying he never knew anyone who had such difficulty coming off drugs is very common, my psych said the same thing when I asked him about patients n withdrawals. What on earth is going on? Are they lying to us or does no one else tell them that the meds are causing them harm? It’s surreal. 

 

The doctors just say your symptoms are from deptession, anxiety, some psychological illness n just take more pills. It’s ridiculous. They caused our problems in the first place n they want to continue causing us problems. I just go to my psych to get my script n I taper it. He’s okay with me doing that so that’s all I need. The rest of it is pretty much up to us. 

 

I hope you’re coping okay today Neroli, Sending hugs to you🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, for chronic pain. Had Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️ April17=7.0✔️ June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️ Aug28=6.25✔️ Oct10=6.20  ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️ Dec16=5.80 ✔️ 2020➡️ Jan 21=5.60 ✔️ April2=5.40 ✔️ May29=5.20 ✔️ Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️ April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️ Aug 28=4.20 ✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10 ✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg ✔️2022 ➡️ Jan8=3.95✔️ Jan31=3.90✔️ March2=3.85 ✔️ April4=3.80 ✔️ June16=3.75✔️ July26=3.70✔️ Sep2=3.65✔️ Oct21=3.60 ✔️ Dec8=3.55✔️2023➡️ Jan 26=3.50✔️ March 17=3.45✔️ June12=3.40✔️ July30=3.35✔️ Sep14=3.30✔️ Oct31=3.25✔️This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor.

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44 minutes ago, Carmie said:

Once burnt, twice shy!

Hi Carmi, 

Our same expression in Greece, is:

Once you burned eating soup, then you are afraid even the yogurt! 

Citalopram 20 mg

Mid June 1994- end March 1995 Then tapering 3 months 

Mid August 1995-end August 1996 Tapering 6 months 

Mid January 2000-end September 2001 Tapering 6 months

Mid October 2003-end October 2005 Tapering 7 years. 

More detailed drug history is here - ☼-kostas

Off any drug from October 2012 

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Yes, Carmie, we are on our own. It's incredible.

 

Neroli, I'm really glad to hear you had a good day and felt energy and motivation.  That's wonderful.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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Hi Neroli - I wanted to pop by and tell you that I've been thinking about you. It is wonderful to hear you are stabilizing from the updose!  💗

-1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper (essentially CT); withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD)

-10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin after 4 mos. Several unsuccessful slow tapers of Zoloft; went up and down in dose a lot

-Spring 2013 back on 1 mg Klonopin to counter WD symptoms; switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to 35 mg citalopram
-Two attempts at slow tapering citalopram, always increased dose due to WD; also increased Klonopin to 1.25 mg in 2014, then to 1.5 mg in 2015

-8/17-9/17: After holding one year at 20 mg, feeling withdrawal symptoms due to stress - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?)  - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg).

Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin

Citalopram taper:  2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg I 2021: 7.8 mg - 5.26 mg I 2022: 5.2 mg - 3.36 mg I 2023: 3.3 mg - 1.47 mg 2024: 1/5/24: 1.44 mg; 1/19/24: 1.40 mg; 1/26/24: 1.37 mg; 2/2/24: 1.34 mg; 2/9/24: 1.31 mg; 2/23/24: 1.28 mg; 3/1/24: 1.25 mg; 3/8/24: 1.22 mg; 3/15/24: 1.19 mg

 

 

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