neroli: is this benzo withdrawal, or other drugs interacting

[wantrelief]

1 hour ago, neroli said:

Seems I'm nervous about just about everything!

Oh Neroli, me too!  I think the things you are nervous about though make sense.  I get nervous about paying a bill!  😦

 

1 hour ago, neroli said:

Yep, one of this days again when I'm sick of all this. How many years it's going to take and not feeling good all the way through. (Negative thoughts, I know).

So sorry it was one of those days.  I completely get it and have the same exact fears.  I so very much hope we feel better at some point during this process so don't have to wait until we are completely off of the drugs.  I get very overwhelmed thinking about the time this is all going to take too.  I try very hard not to think about it but it is impossible not to when we are feeling so unlike ourselves.

 

1 hour ago, neroli said:

So good to have you  there.

So good to have you, my friend. 💖

[neroli]

24 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

 I get nervous about paying a bill!

Hey, Wantrelief f-i-a!  

 

I get that too!   especially if it is for something in the future -kind of like I don't know what the future is going to be like (well, no-one does really but I mean in this WD/damaged business) so why invest in it?  

 

Anyway, thank you for your lovely words.

 

I'm about an hour and a half away from dinner and then bed...........and then, tomorrow.

 

30 minutes ago, wantrelief said:

I so very much hope we feel better at some point during this process so don't have to wait until we are completely off of the drugs.  I get very overwhelmed thinking about the time this is all going to take too.  I try very hard not to think about it but it is impossible not to when we are feeling so unlike ourselves.

Wouldn't it be just lovely to have some feeling better times during the tapering?  This process really is an excellent training ground for taking one moment at a time!!!!!!

 

Weirdly, sometimes I think I don't want to get "better" right away, because I haven't learned what I need to learn yet (I can hardly believe I'm writing that - there may be a hint of stereotypical Brit. stiff upper lip in that).  Don't quote me on that one, it's probably a coping technique!

 

Hope you're doing ok.  I haven't popped over to your side to have a look today.

 

love

 

Neroli 💜

 

[Rabe]

No, you don't go on about your legs...I mean that is major when your legs aren't doing well...kind of an important thing!  Hope they are good to you tomorrow Neroli!

 

Autogenic meditation....think I will look that up and give it a try...I think I should just be able to google it?  Sounds like it works well for you....always nice when something does!  Sometimes things work and other times not at all.  

 

Yes...when I think about all the time I have already lost with these meds it is hard not to have a wave of awful emotions...have to try not to...but sometimes it just happens.  

 

Heres to a good day at work tomorrow!💥

 

 

[neroli]

thanks, @Rabe.

 

here's the link to the one I listen to:

 

 

 

💜

[bubble]

58 minutes ago, neroli said:

Weirdly, sometimes I think I don't want to get "better" right away, because I haven't learned what I need to learn yet (I can hardly believe I'm writing that - there may be a hint of stereotypical Brit. stiff upper lip in that).  Don't quote me on that one, it's probably a coping technique!

 

Sorry, I just loved this From ordeal to training - what a powerful shift.

 

I'm sorry I wasn't able to get in touch especially around your Xmas incident. That was so unreal - being hit so badly and thankfully bouncing back miraculously. I've been off work and doing a lot better. Hope this continues (and I can slack on my training and be more present here and elsewhere in my life. I look forward to checking the video you posted.

[neroli]

@bubble!  Hello!

 

I thought you may have been out of communication (taking a break from SA while having your break).

 

20 minutes ago, bubble said:

Sorry, I just loved this From ordeal to training - what a powerful shift.

 

I had to laugh at this - especially as I'd said don't quote me on this - and you did!  If only the shift leant more to the training side, than the ordeal side.  Still, at least there are times when I can view it as such.  And of course, the normal ups and downs of life are magnified (I think) during reduction and withdrawal.

 

Good to hear from you.

 

Neroli 💜

[ChessieCat]

This was posted on my FB page this morning:  Exercise is a celebration of what you can do, not a punishment for what you ate.

 

Very similar powerful shift.  This is something that I have started doing when I have difficulty walking which sometimes includes pain.  I am thankful that I am still able to walk.  And it does make a difference.

[Rabe]

2 hours ago, neroli said:

Wouldn't it be just lovely to have some feeling better times during the tapering?  This process really is an excellent training ground for taking one moment at a time!!!!!!

 

Weirdly, sometimes I think I don't want to get "better" right away, because I haven't learned what I need to learn yet (I can hardly believe I'm writing that - there may be a hint of stereotypical Brit. stiff upper lip in that).  Don't quote me on that one, it's probably a coping technique!

 

I missed this Neroli...you do have a way with words.  That is so well put... and so true.  I often think how will I live my life that I THOUGHT I was living before?  My fear is that I couldn't do it before....for years...and I tried so many techniques and all.....I dont ever remember not being afraid and having panic times.  I find it hard to believe now I will somehow be able to do that.  That is another wonderful thing about this site...others are doing just that which gives hope.  I think thats why the mods keep reminding to start using the skills now.  Bless you my friend!💜

[Rabe]

and thank you for sending the video!!  I am going to try it tonight.  That was so kind.  💜

[neroli]

Thank you @ChessieCat

 

So you have difficulty walking, too.  And with pain at times.  I don't get pain as such - muscles twanging and joint twinges at times which affect my ankles and knees.  It's something that has substantially affected me and my psyche, I am a confirmed walker, it was my solace and mind-recalibrating activity.  I was building up to tramp some of the highest hills around where I live before this clobbered me.  I have a difficult time coming to terms with it - now two years of it - but I suppose I am getting more used to it.  And I am thankful I can still walk, do my own grocery shopping, bathe and clothe myself etc...

 

I notice in your drug signature that Prozac gave you week muscles - I now realise Citalopram did the same to me, I was having weak muscle feelings and extreme fatigue when on it but didn't connect it to the drug.    Irony in extremis that the PAWS I was having ended up with the legs being even more weak.

 

Hope your day is going ok. And thank you for popping in.

 

Neroli 💜

[neroli]

6 minutes ago, Rabe said:

I often think how will I live my life that I THOUGHT I was living before?  My fear is that I couldn't do it before....for years...and I tried so many techniques and all.....I dont ever remember not being afraid and having panic times.  I find it hard to believe now I will somehow be able to do that.  That is another wonderful thing about this site.

Awww, thank you, Rabe, for the compliment.

 

I think I know what you mean about life "before".  One thing this process has done for me is to take life to the level of survival, getting by as best I can in the circumstances.  And trying to do things that I enjoy a bit too.  My "before" life was soaked in "what do I really want to do?  where do I really want to live, NZ or UK"?  those questions have been removed for now.  I have to make the most of what I'm doing and where I am - I always have been a city girl and, being single, think it's the best place for a singleton to be for the cafes,  arts and museums etc.  I'm out in a suburb now (quite a large one) without the same cultural hum of the city and its known for its ageing population.  Not exactly what had in mind - but one thing I can say is that I have found so much kindness in the people around me - willing to come round and take me out, cut my shrubs, do little jobs if I ask them (which I don't do often).  It is amazing how kind people can be with no expectation of reciprocation.  (I do make sure I say thank you appropriately).

 

Anyway, long way around to saying that I've heard many people say (including Baylissa Frederick) that life after WD and healing is a walk in the park.  Life challenges don't bother you so easily.  So there is light.........

 

xxx Neroli 💜

[Rabe]

I wanted you to know that I have thought about you so much today...I so hope things went well at work, Neroli!  

I sure understand the survival part...I just said that the other day...I am surviving not living.  I dont cherish it at all.  

Take care Neroli!!! Love and hugs to you my friend. 💜

[neroli]

Dear @Rabe

 

Thank you so much for checking in and for your thoughts today.  It was ok.  Took a lot of deep breathing and a couple of meditations this morning to try to quell the anxiety - also telling myself that everyone in the office would be in "just back from holiday" mode, so was unlikely to be full-on, hit the ground running.  That gave me a chance to bring my mind into the work space again and to sort out some kind of order of what to tackle first.

 

It was exhausting as well.  I realise how much the commute takes in energy as well as putting on the  "everything's ok" face.  There was quite a bit of anxiety too.  And I got the hungers and wees back.

 

I'm home now, have eaten and am in bed resting up my legs.  Legs are at about 7 on a scale of 1-10 how bad they feel.

 

At least I got to see my lovely colleagues and my friend-in-withdrawal who is having anxiety issues having just tapered a Benzo.  We both put ourselves at about 2-3 on a 1-10 scale of how good we felt.  

 

Tomorrow, I work from home as I have an appointment with the psychologist who has been taking me through the Acceptance and commitment therapy.  Not too fussed about going - had a wicked thought that when she asks how I've been over the holidays I might just say "well, I'm still alive" and leave it at that.  But I'd better be civil - got to be aware that whatever one says or displays is noted in district health board notes and discussed at team meetings.

 

I'll pop over to your thread to see how you've been doing.

 

lots of love

 

Neroli 💜

 

Oh, when I got home I had another look at the baby beanie hat I made over the weekend and thought it was so cute, that gave me some pleasure.

[Carmie]

Hi Neroli, 

 

So you’re going to be a professional colour inner🖍😄 ( it  looks funny to me writing down colour inner, I’ve never written that down before). I’ve spent many hours in withdrawals colouring in. That’s great you got another colouring in book as a present. I’ve still got two here that a friend sent to me a month or so ago. I’ve been into diamond paintings, so I haven’t been colouring in as much, I will one day again though. One of the books she sent me was sea themed🌊. I’m in my element there!

 

Colouring in really is an amazing distraction when going through withdrawals. Im glad you’ve got lots of distractions in place. 

 

 Sending hugs🤗

[neroli]

Recording a good day:

 

Went to work at the office.  Legs still heavy but felt better in spirit and free of anxiety (mostly)..

 

Completed complex memo I've been writing and sent it off to manager for consideration.

 

Went out with the team to a cafe and decaf. flat white - managed an hour in a noisy, busy atmosphere and did the social chat thing with my colleagues.  Must be over a year that I have been out for coffee with them and I didn't go to any of the xmas lunches.  Laughed at one of my colleagues telling me about his dog who goes bananas when he gets home and "smiles", which means he (the dog) pulls back his lips, my colleague says it looks quite scary!

 

In bed now, legs achy and heavy, but good to record a decent day.

 

Will get round to people's threads at another time - got to rest now.

 

Hope everyone is doing ok.

 

Neroli 💜

 

 

[Carmie]

I’m soooo happy you had a good day Neroli, 

 

Enjoy your rest, sending hugs🤗

[wantrelief]

I am so glad you had a good day at work, Neroli!  You completed the memo which sounded challenging in itself and were even able to go out with colleagues.  It sounds like you had a good time with them.  Very happy for you! I am hoping you had a good night's sleep knowing all you had accomplished during your day.  Thinking about you - WR.

[Rabe]

Oh Neroli that is like a lovely song playing as I read it!!!  I am SOOOOO happy for you to have a day with a beautiful window view!!!  Rest well!!  So happy also that the memo is completed!  That is a feat in itself!  Love and hugs Neroli!!💜

[Rosetta]

Glad you had a good day.  They make a difference.  Thanks for visiting me.  This is really hard, but you are making it through.  I'm happy you had a break. -R

[Carmie]

Hi Neroli, 

 

Just checking to see how you’re doing. Hope you’re having another good day💚

[Rabe]

Thinking about you Neroli!💜

[neroli]

Hello @Rabe @Carmie @wantrelief @Rosetta

 

Thank you all for popping in to see how I'm doing.  Overall it's been a good-ish week -well maybe even a good week (I say "ish" because there are always the legs there and moments when I feel anxiety creeping in, the hungry feeling and the weeing) but my spirits have been higher.  Whether that is because I've had a rest over the holidays I don't know.  We'll see as the time goes on and I get back into more work and commuting.

 

I'm also going to try a 0.25mg cut in Diazepam this week.  It will be interesting to see if I get the weeps and SI back - even then I don't know if it will be WD or just plain exhaustion.

 

So, the draft memo came back to me with "I asked you to give me the risks and benefits of the options, not stating a reason why we couldn't do it".  I knew it would come back in some form like this but I still got panicky like teacher had told me I'd done something bad, could feel my anxiety rising and losing control.  I decided to close the email and sit on it for a good long time (ie. days) so I could calm down and rationalise.  I also sought out a colleague and passed it by her, she reckons I should push back and tell my manager it's out of my scope, we need expert counsel - we are both a bit tired with ad hoc things that we get pulled into that aren't our core business.  Anyway, I guess the coping mechanism is that I'm not going to jump too high and will let it mull for a while.  I do find I have to employ a lot of coping techniques to keep on working.

 

On the train this morning, I ran into an ex-colleague from another place I worked at years ago and who is now contracting at the place I now work.  He asked what my health issue is (walking sticks etc) and when I told him my CNS had been mashed by antidepressants, he then told me about his wife and her "journey" with meds and mental health.  It was a very sad story and while I can't presume to claim I am an expert on her situation, I just thought it screamed of med. damage but then my view is particularly skewed in that direction..  I can't remember all the details - he spoke for about an hour all the way down on the train - but the gist, if I've got it right, is that she had some postpartum depression and was put on Effexor , which seemed to go ok for about 2 years, then a lot of life events came up that were stressful and she remembered her childhood abuse and it seems like she had a break of some sort and became very ill, possibly manic and suicidal.  Since then, she has been put on many different meds., has been sectioned to a mental health ward having told the psychiatrist she was suicidal, is still suffering badly, has bouts of running away, been diagnose bi-polar and borderline personality, is on olanzapine and goodness know what else. Sshe has been turned upside down and ripped apart.  Oh and there's been ECT as well, which he said had worked for her but she is going in for some more (so "it worked" is relative, the effects don't last).  I could hardly get a word in but he understood my situation.  When I told him about the chemical imbalance theory being a myth, used as a marketing tool, he didn't know about it and said he'd thought it was all about chemical imbalances.  Later in the day, I took a risk and sent him a link to Joanna Moncrieff's talk at the University of New England, called The Myth of the Chemical Cure. I put a rider in my email to say that I wouldn't "spam" him with all sorts of stuff but that I thought he might be interested to hear this (or not as the case may be).  Hearing all this I felt so awful (and it was a bit triggering), it's been years of agony for both of them.  Oh dear.

 

My goal this weekend is NOT to dwell on the memo  , to NOT worry about a reduction in the meds. and to rest and do whatever jobs I can - baseline, as always, is getting my groceries.

 

Hope you are all doing ok - I'll check in on your threads this weekend - I just included you all in this message to say thanks and because I knew I wanted to capture the meeting with my ex-colleague and that would take my writing energy for tonight.

 

Love to all of you

 

Neroli 💜

 

 

[Rabe]

Another tragic story Neroli...it is amazing how it is everywhere as stories are shared...I am so grateful you were there for him and could offer him another side of the story.  That was SO kind of you to take all the time you did with him and then go the extra step to send that link as well. You are a beacon for sure!  Bless you for that and so much more Neroli!  Rest well...let the memo go...your boss ought to be doing it himself was my first thought actually.  If HE knows how he wants it then why not just do it for heavens sake!  I think it is says lots that you didnt let things upend you.

Wishing you a good sleep and a peaceful weekend!  Love and hugs my friend across the pond. 💜

[Rosetta]

My two cents -- your boss really wants to do whatever it is.  So, add a part to give him all the plus side in the first part of the memo and leave the rest of the downside buried in the middle of the memo.  Take out your opinions. Close by saying whether or not the pluses outweigh the minuses will require further consideration of the benefits weighed against the costs.  So often, people have a desire for something and they may not even realize that until someone says it's not a good idea.  They think they are neutral until faced with the risk that they can't have it.  At that point they shoot the messenger.  Give him a reason to get what he wants.  Telling him he isn't qualified to decide is, in my opinion, very risky.  Let your co-worker be the one to make that mistake.

[Carmie]

Hi Neroli, 

 

I wanted to read your message last night, but didn’t have the brain power. Glad you had a good-ish week (It’s cool making up new words👍) 

 

Sad experience about your ex-colleagues wife. It’s awful what the phsychiatrists do to people. I’ve had ECT too, about a months worth twice. I had it twice a week, but there was nothing mentally wrong with me, I had akathisia and was suicidal because of withdrawals. I didn’t know that at the time.

 

Yes, this weekend just work on your self care. Groceries are a must🥑🍍🍇🥬🥔🍠🥒🍅🥩🥓🍖😁.

 

Take care, and rest up as well💚

 

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Carmie
Removed white space

[neroli]

Thanks @Rabe @Rosetta & @Carmie

 

Thank you for your comments - especially about "the memo" which isn't really what this site is about but I thank you for your support and encouragement in all ways, since being unstable CNS-wise creates extra stress.  My boss (a she) is really good to me and has helped me to rehabilitate to  the point I am back into work, so I don't want to bag her - just this part of the work is something I don't find easy to deal with.  I agree with you Rosetta - save face, be neutral in my analysis, calm down and don't be so pissed off by it.  I've also decided I need to approach it with humour - make a bit of a laugh about it.  So, by Monday, I hope the anxiety spike will have receded and I can proceed with more calm.

 

I appreciate your good wishes - I have done the groceries, and I've done about 45 mins. of weeding and spraying my shrubs which have got sooty black mould.

 

I am resting up - knitting and watching YouTubes.  

 

love you all

 

Neroli 

[wantrelief]

Hello f-i-a!  Thank you for all of your continued support, Neroli. I wanted to pop by and see how you are doing.  I am so glad you were able to get your groceries and now have that out of the way.  Also glad you are getting some rest in after your busy work week.  I am thinking about you, WR 💗

[Rabe]

1 hour ago, neroli said:

I appreciate your good wishes - I have done the groceries, and I've done about 45 mins. of weeding and spraying my shrubs which have got sooty black mould.

 

I am resting up - knitting and watching YouTubes.  

 

This sounds lovely Neroli!!  How nice to get the groceries and get outside for a but!  YAY!!!  Things will be fine because your perspective is FABulous!!  Thinking about you as always!  Hope the legs held up today!

[Carmie]

Hi Neroli, 

 

Just popping in to say I’m thinking of you💚

[wantrelief]

Hello f-i-a - Thank you for your sweet note on my thread.  It was such a pleasure to get to "talk" to you more during your holiday; I always enjoy our "conversations".  It sounds like you've been doing well...such good news!  I really appreciate your well wishes regarding the generic switch; it seems to be going well thus far.  I am thinking about you too, Neroli.  💗

[neroli]

Day 6 of 0.25mg drop in Diaz.  Exhausted , legs more wobbly and stiff, wooziness. Hungers and wees back again.  After 3 days of feeling brighter and thinking the legs were easing this is a bit of a wave again, I think.  WD or just plain tired from 3 days in the office?  No idea.  Just documenting this so I can come back later and see if there's a pattern.

[neroli]

On 1/12/2019 at 10:44 AM, Carmie said:

I’ve had ECT too, about a months worth twice. I had it twice a week, but there was nothing mentally wrong with me, I had akathisia and was suicidal because of withdrawals.

Hi Carmie

 

Just wondered if it helped at all with the aka and suicidality.  Only curious because the psych. I saw introduced the idea of ECT into about the third time I saw him - and I was in 24/7 and suicidal from the damage done by the drugs.

[wantrelief]

10 hours ago, neroli said:

Day 6 of 0.25mg drop in Diaz.  Exhausted , legs more wobbly and stiff, wooziness. Hungers and wees back again.  After 3 days of feeling brighter and thinking the legs were easing this is a bit of a wave again, I think.  WD or just plain tired from 3 days in the office?  No idea.  Just documenting this so I can come back later and see if there's a pattern.

I am so sorry your symptoms have taken a dip after feeling better.  It does sound like a wave, especially given the timing of your drop (congratulations on the drop by the way....I didn't realize you had made a cut).  It is wonderful you had those three days of feeling better....those days will come again, my friend.  Hang in there, Neroli. I am hoping this wave eases soon. 

[neroli]

1 hour ago, wantrelief said:

Hang in there, Neroli. I am hoping this wave eases soon. 

Thank you , friend.  So good to hear from you.  Today is a bit worse, I think, I have wobblier legs and more shakes and anxiety.  I'm about to set off for work and am not sure if I can do it.  Only trying will tell me whether I can.  I do worry when this happens that it's going to be days of the same, or worse, incapacitating me further.  I must just take the moment as it comes.  See what I can do.  Oh, if you were here now I would be crying on your shoulder.  If I can't do it, I can call in sick but want to avoid that if I can.  The walk to the bus stop will give me an indication of how much my legs can hold me up.  Goodness, I'm so fatigued.  

 

Learning for the future maybe in making smaller drops.

 

Hope you're doing ok.   Thank you so much for being there.

 

xx

 

Neroli 💜

 

 

[wantrelief]

Oh Neroli, I am so sorry you are going through this.  How I do wish I was there in person to comfort you.  I am so impressed with your trying, that is all we can do.  I understand your worries - I think that is only natural - but it really sounds like a wave and it will get better.  I am thinking about you, my friend, and am there with you in spirit.  💖

[neroli]

6 hours ago, wantrelief said:

I am thinking about you, my friend, and am there with you in spirit.  💖

Thank you so much, Wantrelief.  I'm with you in spirit also.  So changeable all this is.

 

I went to the office and I left just after lunch time - I decided that half a day off sick was ok and I couldn't stand to be there sitting at a computer trying to get my head to work while feeling exhausted.  Anyway, I went to a meeting that I didn't want to miss and after that I felt a bit better and thought I could probably have done the whole day (I'd submitted my sick leave request before this).  But now I'm home and I realise it would have been a push to do the whole day - I'm whacked.

 

I spent some time at work this morning being a listening ear to a woman in our team whose husband died a year ago.  She's been so stoical and has used work to keep her going but things are beginning to wear her down now - such as the coroner not giving the cause of death yet (he died suddenly), and the follow-ons from that, such as the insurance company not paying out on a Life Insurance policy because they say they need the cause of death to pay (grrrrrr, insurance companies are weasels), I couldn't understand what the cause of death had anything to do with claiming on the policy but my colleague said it was something to do with "people not benefiting from nefarious causes of death". that was the gist of what she said, I'm sure.  That then leads on to the maintenance of her house which needs some roofing work doing, which she can't do without the insurance money.  And so it goes on.  She's doing all this stuff by herself and the "authorities" are taking their own sweet time - it's been suggested the backlog of work for the coroner may mean a three-year wait.  Oh and the tax office are hard to deal with, she has to hang on to the phone for hours to get through to them.  IT"S JUST NOT RIGHT.   More and more I am becoming enraged by "the system" which gets us in all sorts of ways, including iatrogenic damage and zero responsibility, zero admission of it, zero support for getting off the drugs.............

 

And then my friend-in-withdrawal at work said maybe I opt to stay on these meds. for life so I don't have to deal with the WD.  Well, no. 1. I don't know if the meds are making my legs worse, no. 2. I don't think a Dr. would leave me on a bento for ever and no. 3. I'm not exactly leaping round the place on these drugs, no. 4 long-term possibilities such as osteoporosis (although I'm at an age now where that could be a possibility anyway but I was doing weight-bearing exercise before all this to mitigate that), dementia?...........

 

But sometimes I do wonder if I should stop the reductions for a good while............

 

Too much to think about.

 

Hope your day has been ok and thank you so much for being there this morning.

 

Neroli 💜