neroli: is this benzo withdrawal, or other drugs interacting

[Rosetta]

Hey, Neroli,. 

 

I know now what you mean.  Hope will come back and you will feel better.  Hang in there a few more weeks and you can start your taper.  I know you will feel better when you get the drug load down.  I'm sorry you have to do it slowly and carefully to avoid more difficult symptoms.  Keep walking no matter what.  I have found that to be the most helpful thing I do.

 

Hugs, Rosetta

[neroli]

Hello Rosetta

 

Nice of you to pop in and give me some words of encouragement - it helps.  Especially when it's from someone who is dealing with quite a deal of the withdrawal stuff as well - it can be hard to be motivated to write at times, so it is much appreciated.

 

I worked from home today.  Nausea has abated (been replaced with the hollow/hungry feeling again), legs still feel weaker but I'm going to have a go at going in to the office tomorrow and be around people.

 

Got to bear in mind this is a long-term project.  The day my legs get better I will know that I am on a more hopeful trajectory.  To be able to walk without worry of collapse will be heaven.

 

Hope you're plugging along ok still.

 

Best of wishes

 

Neroli

[neroli]

Hello moderators

 

I'm posting my latest symptom diary.

 

As I posted to Shep "

It's been a worse week - more nausea, anxiousness/anxiety and constant tiredness showing up and a few days where I've felt my legs wouldn't hold out, so have either worked from home or gone home early.  This, I think, creates more anxiety - the thought that I'm going to go so low that I lose my job.  It's not just the income, it's about being around people.  I guess I should adopt the attitude that worrying will not make things better and I'll have to cope with whatever comes - it's like a spectre hanging over my head.

 

I keep reading Bubble's post about holds to reassure me that this could be destabilisation that will resolve in time.  Then I read BrassMonkey's essays again and read about tolerance and worry about getting tolerance effects from holding the benzo.  It's bewildering"

 

Am holding on all drugs at the moment - hoping for stabilisation.  Not looking at tapering Esci. for a while.

 

Neroli

[neroli]

SymptomDiaryJuly2018.xlsx

[neroli]

bump

[Rosetta]

HI, Neroli.  I'm so sorry you are struggling.  You won't lose your job.  This phase will end and you'll be ok.  It's so easy to catastrophize.  This may be a low point and it's tough to have been at home for the weekend on the heels of a week at home.  When the symptoms let up you'll be out and feeling better.  Don't lose hope.  You didn't change your dose by some drastic amount such that this low time should last very long.  It's going to be ok.  Try to distract from those thoughts if you can.

[neroli]

Hello Rosetta

 

Thank you for replying.  You are so generous to keep sending me words of encouragement.  I won't lose my job for a while, because I can still work at home.  I do find it so isolating being at home and of course that adds to my distress.  I get so very disconsolate when my legs seem to get worse - and they have in the past week, they feel so much weaker and wobblier.  I will avoid catastrophising as much as I can.  And will maintain hope.  I can somewhat distract myself from the thoughts when I am working, although at times it creates a stress which ramps up my symptoms.

 

Today I have a cleaner in to do my housework - it's just been beyond my level of energy to do it in the past couple of months.

 

I am really keeping my fingers crossed that this is the withdrawals catching up from reducing too soon/fast in he past year and with the hold this it will even out soon.

 

I know there are many, many people who are in worse situations - and it must helluva tough to cope with.  This whole thing is tough to cope with.  As you know.

 

But thank you again for your words - it really helps to have someone as a supporter.

[neroli]

Hello again Rosetta

 

I clicked on the "Follow this member" for you this morning, as I thought it would help me keep in touch and be more proactive about sending messages.  Then I saw my email inbox filling up with many posts and I got a bit overwhelmed by so many.  I've unclicked it now - so if you noticed it's not that I've "unfriended" it's just so that I can control my emails and not get stressed by too many.

 

I hope you are doing ok - getting more breaks of windows.

 

Kind wishes

 

Neroli

[neroli]

Hello Moderators

 

Is there such thing as mild serotonin syndrome/toxicity?  I ask because the main symptom I've been dealing with is tight/weak/wobbly feeling legs and exhaustion after just a little exertion.  The thing is, my legs were getting weaker in 2016 when I was off the drugs and in long-term withdrawal and then eventually I physically crashed early 2017.  The legs have not been back to normal since the beginning of 2017 - and now I'm on three psych. drugs and was wondering if the a-ds might be causing more stiffness and weakness that the benzo.

 

I know it's all a bit of a guessing game but just wondered if anyone had any experience/insight they could offer.

 

I'm holding on all meds at the moment because I may have tapered too fast from the benzo and am hoping that I will stabilise soon and then start to reduce again - bring to gather information about which one to try reducing as I've read that benzos can also cause weakness.

 

Many thanks.

 

Neroli

[Kostas]

23 minutes ago, neroli said:

Hello Moderators

 

Is there such thing as mild serotonin syndrome/toxicity?  I ask because the main symptom I've been dealing with is tight/weak/wobbly feeling legs and exhaustion after just a little exertion.  The thing is, my legs were getting weaker in 2016 when I was off the drugs and in long-term withdrawal and then eventually I physically crashed early 2017.  The legs have not been back to normal since the beginning of 2017 - and now I'm on three psych. drugs and was wondering if the a-ds might be causing more stiffness and weakness that the benzo.

 

I know it's all a bit of a guessing game but just wondered if anyone had any experience/insight they could offer.

 

I'm holding on all meds at the moment because I may have tapered too fast from the benzo and am hoping that I will stabilise soon and then start to reduce again - bring to gather information about which one to try reducing as I've read that benzos can also cause weakness.

 

Many thanks.

 

Neroli

Hi, 

I had weak legs, muscle pains mainly on my shoulders, and muscle stiffness, during my fortunately brief withdrawal symptoms, appeared after four years being off citalopram! 

It was stronger during the waves and much much better during the windows. 

Now the muscle weakness has gone, I can walk miles without any tiredness and enjoy my swimming in the Greek Island of Syros! 

It seems to be a reversible problem. 

All the best! 

[neroli]

Thank you, Kostas.  I will take your words as encouragement that there is a way out of this!

[neroli]

@Gridley

 

Hello Gridley 

 

I want to start tapering the Lexapro this weekend.  I don't know if it's going to help my legs get better - but reducing the drug burden should surely be a benefit.  I haven't decided whether to go in at 2.5% or 1%.  I guess super caution would be 1% and if I feel no significant effects from this I could try upping the amount.

 

I think I'm as stable as I can be given that I was in a very de-stabiised state anyway right back in January 2017.  So I hope it won't knock me too much.

 

Thank you for your offer of help - I'll re-read the micro taper thread later tonight to get a better idea of the process.

 

Best wishes

 

Neroli

[Gridley]

Good luck, Neroli. Sounds like a good plan.

[Rosetta]

I understand, Neroli.  I'm overwhelmed by the notifications, too.   Good luck with your drop!

[wantrelief]

Good luck with your drop, Neroli!  It looks like we are in similar boats attempting to taper whilst not feeling so well and on multiple meds too.  I hope everything goes smoothly with this drop.

[neroli]

@Gridley @Rosetta @wantrelief

 

Thank you all for your good wishes.  Have to say I've gone a bit wobbly on the idea now - I had a bit better day today and then wondered whether to hold til the end of July and then try the Esci/Lex taper.  Sorry, I feel as if I'm being a nuisance - I seem to keep saying I'm planning to make a reduction, then I don't because I've felt more de-stabilised/ and or a bit better since holding the benzo, then thinking maybe I should give my system more time to adapt.  I'll let you know if I do reduce and try not to keep posting "I'm going to" posts until I really am going to give it a go.

 

Wantrelief, yes we do seem to have similarities and you have had a rough ride with your reductions, though this year appears to have been better on the Citalopram taper.

 

Thank you for all your wishes and support.

 

Neroli

[Carmie]

1 hour ago, neroli said:

@Gridley @Rosetta @wantrelief

 

Thank you all for your good wishes.  Have to say I've gone a bit wobbly on the idea now - I had a bit better day today and then wondered whether to hold til the end of July and then try the Esci/Lex taper.  Sorry, I feel as if I'm being a nuisance - I seem to keep saying I'm planning to make a reduction, then I don't because I've felt more de-stabilised/ and or a bit better since holding the benzo, then thinking maybe I should give my system more time to adapt.  I'll let you know if I do reduce and try not to keep posting "I'm going to" posts until I really am going to give it a go.

 

Wantrelief, yes we do seem to have similarities and you have had a rough ride with your reductions, though this year appears to have been better on the Citalopram taper.

 

Thank you for all your wishes and support.

 

Neroli

 

Hi Neroli, 

 

You know what is best for you. Only you know your body. 

 

Wishing you all the best in your tapering. One day at a time. This process is really hard but everyone is so different and tapering and withdrawals aren’t linear, so we keep having to amending things. 

 

Sending you hugs🤗

[neroli]

2 minutes ago, Carmie said:

Wishing you all the best in your tapering. One day at a time. This process is really hard but everyone is so different and tapering and withdrawals aren’t linear, so we keep having to amending things. 

 

Thank you, Carmie.  So good of you to combine and remind me that I have to listen to my body and to send me hugs.  Looking at your signature, I can se that you have had to go really slowly.

 

Thanks heaps.

 

Best to you as well

 

Neroli

[Gridley]

As Carmie said, you best know your body.  Go at your own pace and whenever you feel it is right. 

[Rosetta]

Neroli, 

Do what you need to do.  Getting cold feet is ok.  I'm sure it's a concern to change the dose.  One day you will have a better idea of the effect a drop will have.  Right now, you are new to this.  I think it's ok to get encouragement here for a drop, and if you then decide you aren't ready, I'm sure everyone will understand.  This is a tough journey, but it will get easier.  Someday you will be more comfortable with your decisions.  Even then I'm sure you will reconsider sometimes.  I can't imagine the amount of support I would need to taper.  Take care,

Rosetta

[Carmie]

9 hours ago, neroli said:

Thank you, Carmie.  So good of you to combine and remind me that I have to listen to my body and to send me hugs.  Looking at your signature, I can se that you have had to go really slowly.

 

Thanks heaps.

 

Best to you as well

 

Neroli

 

Hi Neroli, 

 

Yes slow and steady is the only way to go. Even then I still get withdrawals but they would be much worse if I went too quick. When I’ve tapered too quickly in the past or didn’t hold long enough I really payed for it. It’s not worth it, you don’t get anywhere quicker. 

 

Some people have to have longer holds than a month, others can only taper tiny doses. Though there are many that find 10% works really well for them. I have to taper lower now, though in the past I have tapered by 10%. We definitely have to keep amending things. I’ve been having a break from tapering for a while, starting again at the end of August.

 

Yes, it definitely is all about listening to your body. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

[neroli]

Posting latest symptom diary.  Can't see much improvement - a bit of a rise in low-level constant anxiety, legs no better, a lot of tiredness and feeling very low.

SymptomDiaryJuly2018.xlsx

[neroli]

On 7/12/2018 at 6:20 AM, Carmie said:

Some people have to have longer holds than a month, others can only taper tiny doses. Though there are many that find 10% works really well for them. I have to taper lower now, though in the past I have tapered by 10%. We definitely have to keep amending things. I’ve been having a break from tapering for a while, starting again at the end of August.

Hi Carmie

 

I hope your hold has given you a break form the symptoms,  I'm going to hold - not sure how long for but definitely not finding things easy at the moment.  Thanks for your support.

 

Neroli

[Rosetta]

Sorry you feel bad.  Hang in there!

[neroli]

32 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Sorry you feel bad.  Hang in there!

Am hanging in!  Thank you for your reply.  You hang in there too, you've been having some tough times recently.  You are so inspiring to be hanging in and offering support to others as well

 

x

[Carmie]

6 hours ago, neroli said:

Hi Carmie

 

I hope your hold has given you a break form the symptoms,  I'm going to hold - not sure how long for but definitely not finding things easy at the moment.  Thanks for your support.

 

Neroli

 

Yes Neroli, 

 

This definitely is the fight of our lives. Yes, the hold has helped with symptoms but I’m very sick with a chronic illness that is CNS related as well, so I still have lots of symptoms like dizziness, severe brain fog etc even without withdrawals.

 

I try and look for the positives in my day though and focus on things that make me smile, nature, animals, art, being creative, photography, crocheting, spending time with friends, exploring etc etc. My brain always thinks of millions of things I can do. When brain fog is too bad to read I just do other things. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.😊

 

Hope your hold helps. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

[Rosetta]

Hi Neroli, Thanks for your note on my thread.  Hope you have a good night. -R

[neroli]

On 7/15/2018 at 2:53 PM, Carmie said:

I try and look for the positives in my day though and focus on things that make me smile, nature, animals, art, being creative, photography, crocheting, spending time with friends, exploring etc etc

thank you, Carmie.  Just read your signature and you have certainly been put through the mill.  I hope your taper is going well now.

 

I do record the positives in my "Good Bits" note book - even if sometimes it's hard to find them.  There's not much that gives me a good feeling at the moment (maybe that's anhedonia from the meds, or maybe it's because most days I feel too ill to enjoy things).  I try to walk with friends and that helps a little, especially if I can be of help to that person by listening to an problem they have and just being there for them.  I'm definitely struggling with the loss of the life I was managing to have before all this really dreadful stuff started - I had long-term withdrawal effects but there were times I managed to go on long walks and be able to enjoy it, or to meet a friend and have a good talk and a coffee.  Most of that has gone now.  My saving grace most of the time is being able to get into the office and among my work colleagues, even though there is the stress of working to deadlines and on different projects.

 

Wishing you all the best

 

Neroli

[neroli]

Had another very bad day today - after a bit of a lift yesterday where my legs felt looser and more stable and my mood was optimistic - wobbly legs and wooziness back to usual (if not worse) state and so tired/fatigued, with depression and anxiety breaking through.  started worrying again that holding on the Diaz was creating a tolerance that meant the anxiety was breaking through.  Re-read threads on this site where people have done long holds on benzos and eventually stabilised (whatever that means for each person) and that there's a lot of misinformation on some sites about long benzo holds creating more problems.  feel more reassured about holding where I am for a while longer - my system was so messed up it may take some time for it to level out a bit.

[neroli]

Posting this week's symptom diary.  First half of the week was bad, seemed to get better in terms of stamina and ability to stay at work longer towards the end of the week.  This Saturday was the first I've had in months where I have had some energy and motivation.

 

Oh, the system keeps telling me my upload has failed - it's 28kb, so not too big, is it?

[Rosetta]

So happy to hear you are feeling better!!  That's wonderful. -Rosetta

[neroli]

3 hours ago, Rosetta said:

So happy to hear you are feeling better!!  That's wonderful. -Rosetta

Thank you, Rosetta.  Nice of you to drop by.  It was good to feel that extra energy and motivation.  It's all so unpredictable day to day - well, I mean there are continual symptoms which remain the same but the level of severity of them varies, as you well know.  It's been good to hear that you have had some breaks of better times.

 

Wouldn't you know it, I had a very bad night's sleep.  I got one of my symptoms really bad in the evening, a hollow/hungry feeling after I've eaten. (I wonder if it's particularly bad when I don't eat enough protein - I'd made a rice noodle stir-fry with plenty of green veg and some chicken but it wasn't as protein-full as my usual meat and plain veg) and I went to sleep with that feeling.  I had vivid dreams of a friend and me eating so much chocolate that we both felt very nauseous.  I realise now that I was actually feeling that nausea, physically, in a half-sleep kind of way.  I woke up very agitated and tense and feeling ill.

 

I also wonder if switching cigarette brand has had something to do with.  (I feel like I've "come out" admitting I smoke!).  The supermarket where I always shop has stopped selling the brand I usually have so I bought another kind because I cannot deal with going to another shop to get them.  My system is so sensitive I wouldn't be surprised if the switch has given it a jolt.

 

Anyway, upshot is that today I'm pretty tired and feeling flat again.

 

Ho hum.  Must read the Acceptance pages again on this site.  And maybe do some more reading about re-instatement, since I'd been a number of months/years out from taking any a-ds before I crashed bad and I'm on completely different meds now - just hope my system reaches some equilibrium on this re-instatement and that I can see more better days.

 

Love and best wishes from this side of the world.

 

Neroli

[neroli]

SymptomDiaryJuly2018.xlsxSymptomDiaryJuly2018.xlsx

[Altostrata]

Please post your daily symptom and drug notes as text in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right, or provide a link to a Google Drive spreadsheet so nothing has to be downloaded. Thank you.

 

[Rosetta]

Oh, there are so many way to trip up aren't there?!  Your cigarette brand changes and you feel worse -- good grief.  I hope it passes quickly.  My daughter is home this week -- no camp -- so I'm going to try to stay sane.  Today, there was a A LOT of whining during some math and reading practice.  I feel crummy now.  

 

I hope your your day is better tomorrow.  Are weekends usually better without the pressure of work?

[neroli]

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ncCyb6cvtBOkjDxPyYu-eNn3r0pP_YsmC53Jq026-t8/edit?usp=sharing

 

15-21 July 2018 symptom diary in google docs