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neroli: is this benzo withdrawal, or other drugs interacting


neroli

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Does the shakiness start or intensify after taking diazepam?

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6 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Oh, there are so many way to trip up aren't there?!  Your cigarette brand changes and you feel worse -- good grief.  I hope it passes quickly.  My daughter is home this week -- no camp -- so I'm going to try to stay sane.  Today, there was a A LOT of whining during some math and reading practice.  I feel crummy now.  

 

I hope your your day is better tomorrow.  Are weekends usually better without the pressure of work?

I'm only guessing about the cigarette brand thing - who knows?  I remembered that I switched to another brand a few weeks ago and I don't remember anything significant.  Possibly I'm hyper-vigilant.

 

Work/weekends are a double-edged sword.  I feel better being in the company of people when I'm at work but there's always the concern about how my legs will hold up during the day, and the low-level anxiety to cope with.  And there are the stresses, for instance I'm organising an event for a few suppliers to come in and be welcomed onto our panel.  I will have to be there and may have to speak to a subject within it.  It's shaping up to be a 2.5hr meeting/networking event and I just don't know how I'm going to cope with that - I'm more or less ok if I can do most of my work on my own at the computer, with team meetings and with colleagues - but I know right at the moment that 2.5hours and mixing and mingling will be really tough and makes me nervous.  And if I can't do it, I worry that I'm not able to be a properly functioning employee.  I'll have to have a word with my manager, I think, and not in a way that brings her attention to what a struggle it is to do the work at times.

 

At the weekend, I try to feel as though I can relax.  But it doesn't quite work out like that - grocery shopping is always a worry because of the legs, and then I try to get out for a walk and there are times when I can't manage it.  Yesterday, I went to the mall with a friend and even though my legs had felt looser, after two visits in shops, I was feeling the drag on my legs again and exhausted.  And then there are the times (sometimes long swathes of it) where I'm on my own and I get down about how little I can do now.  Saturdays are usually the worst - wiped out and de-motivated, Sundays tend to be a bit better, maybe because I've recuperated a bit after the week at work.  I've been trying to do some work at the weekends to keep up my income and take up some time - but lately I've not had the energy or motivation.

 

Weekends used to be a time for hiking, yoga, and trying to make contacts in a relatively new community to me (when long-term WD wasn't affecting me).  Not being able to do that now since I crashed is hard to cope with.  I have do have a very loyal friend who says she and her husband will be there for me all the way though this and they are truly supportive but I cannot expect them to be there for me all the time, they have their own lives and besides we'd all get bored with too much contact!

41 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Today, there was a A LOT of whining during some math and reading practice.  I feel crummy now.  

 

Well, it seems you have your stresses to cope with and that it ramps up your symptoms.  So perhaps you understand the double-edged sword of having people around you and feeling isolated with your symptoms when you're on your own.

 

Wishing you the best

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Does the shakiness start or intensify after taking diazepam?

Hello Alto

 

the shakiness is usually there before I take the diazepam but it seems to go on even after taking the diazepam, maybe getting less in the afternoon but there are some activities like walking too far, or pushing past my energy levels that can bring the shakiness on, also intense, pressured work can do it.  Looking back at my symptom diaries that I started keeping in early June, it seems that shakes go on during the day - to varying degrees.  It's never observable, as in my whole body is shaking, it's a kind of inner shake, with maybe my hands trembling a bit more if they get worse.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Yes, I have the same issue.  If I am alone too much without positive distraction, I get anxious and depressed.  If I am doing too much, I get overwhelmed and anxious.  It's tough to keep the balance.  I have found that even if I think I can't go to an event, be around do people or handle the length or intensity of the situation, if just go I can fake my way through and then go home and deal with the consequences.  I pushed myself to go so that I was there and didn't miss out.  It was worth it because I have those memories and experiences to remind me that I have not let WD beat me.  It has not taken my whole life away -- only part of it.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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6 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

if just go I can fake my way through and then go home and deal with the consequences.

yip, I get your point and I'm doing my best to work in the same way - we'll see how things go, even getting to work is a miracle for me at the moment - the event is at the end of August so I may feel a little stronger then - but I don't want to have a full-on anxiety attack or swoon if it's too much for me!

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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@Rosetta If I am alone too much without positive distraction, I get anxious and depressed.  If I am doing too much, I get overwhelmed and anxious.  It's tough to keep the balance. 

 

Well said, Rosetta...I find the same...and things change every day and through out the day...it is a challenge!  

 

Thinking about you neroli and hoping work goes well and that the end of August work event goes smoothly!!! Take care!!!💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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@ChessieCat

 

I've just been searching the site for good stories about reinstatement - especially after a long time after being off, and possibly being been kindled with a short period of trying fluoxetine and rapid taper.  I had a physical breakdown and horrific anxiety and after trying to ride it through I subsequently tried reinstatement.  Escitalopram did nothing to help, so it seemed, four weeks after I started it, so Nortriptyline was added, plus I was now on a benzo.

 

After reading the Reinstatement and Stabilisation thread, and JamesF's thread I am now frightened witless that I won't get better.  in JamesF's thread you wrote "The reason we are urging caution is because we have seen members become even worse when they have reinstated too high a dose.  And it's not that they get worse and then things improve.  Some of them have become worse and not been able to stabilise, and have to endure destabilisation, which can effect various parts of the body, as well as withdrawal."

 

Crikey, I'm on mega dose of Nortrip and top dose of Escitalopram.  Have reduced diazepam since last year but am holding because it was thought I might have reduced too rapidly and withdrawals were catching up with me.  Now I just wonder if I'm permanently damaged.

 

Are there any threads where I can read stories of people with a similar history to me who've managed to come "back from the brink".  I've had a search and can't find any.

 

Many thanks

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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@Rabe

 

Thank you so much.  I do struggle with this so much at times.  It is never predictable what will happen overnight, during the day etc and how well I will be able to walk/cope....

 

As you will see from my post just above, I've frightened myself with what I've read on the site about reinstatement.

 

I look at your signature and realise you've been bounced around meds., so you probably have some understanding.

 

Thank you for your good wishes.  Hope you are doing ok.

 

Warm wishes

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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After the tapering of the Clonazepam up dose I was a mess...nervous system crashed, could not eat, etc.  Came here to get help and got put on other meds instead.  But I held 7 months after the rapid Sept taper and am better Neroli....I do truly feel you will get better.  Check out Hazels thread...if I remember she did some reinstating.  There are others here who have done that and are getting better...everyone is different...hang in there!!! 💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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Thank you Rabe.  That's encouraging to hear and I'm pleased that you feel better.  I'll check out Hazels thread a bit later - got a bit of fright overload at the moment!

 

💜

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment

I understand that...I truly do.  I often have to take a break from here because I am not in a good place and just have to reset in general.  Take care of you!!!! Ill keep you in my thoughts!!! 💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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10 hours ago, neroli said:

 

After reading the Reinstatement and Stabilisation thread, and JamesF's thread I am now frightened witless that I won't get better.  in JamesF's thread you wrote "The reason we are urging caution is because we have seen members become even worse when they have reinstated too high a dose.  And it's not that they get worse and then things improve.  Some of them have become worse and not been able to stabilise, and have to endure destabilisation, which can effect various parts of the body, as well as withdrawal."

 

I really don't think that she meant to say that some people never have the chance to stabilize.  I believe that we can't take Chessiecat's comment quite that literally.  Destabilization can last a long time, and she hopes people will avoid it because nothing but time will fix it.  People sometimes reinstate without understanding the risks.  They are sometimes feeling so desperate that they take risks.  Some try new medicines in their desperation.  Some of them end up hospitalized and are forcibly given drugs that further destabilize the system.  If achieving stabilization will come with time, a failed reinstatement will interrupt that process and lengthen it.  Reinstatement at too high a dose is commonly prescribed by doctors with bad consequences or people simply take the previous dose without knowing that the time between cessation and reinstatement allows changes in the brain.  Taking a dose that is too much for a sensitive system appears to be one of the most common ways to extended this horror that we call WD.  That's not well understood or "advertised" in the real world.  Of course, watching people make these mistakes is a constant frustration for the mods.  

 

There was a time when I scared myself by reading the threads.  They aren't written for us to take as truth or scientific fact.  If reading them upsets you, try to remember that they are written by people who are trying to address a specific issue at a specific time.  I stopped reading them in order to stay calm.  It was impossible for me to discern whether what I saw applied to me or not.  However, I remember that JamesF had been writing on someone else's thread and was suggesting advice to the person. Chessiecat disagreed with that advice.  She seemed to be trying to make James understand the nuances and pitfalls of reinstating at a dose that was too high.  A lot of progress can be erased that way.  

 

As for reinstating too far out -- that is why I never reinstated the AD.  Apparently, reinstating a benzo is even more difficult, and the "safe" time period is very, very short.  Yet another thing doctors don't seem to understand.

 

I don't think anyone is permanently damaged from these drugs, but their condition can worsen if the changes go wrong.  If they get worse they might go to a doctor who makes things even worse.  Helping people avoid further damage is difficult when the risks are so poorly understood and so widely ignored by the medical professionals.  I have noticed that it's rare that a mod will suggest reinstatement unless the person quit the drug very recently.  I think they feel it is so unpredictable when done outside the "safe time frame" that they don't want to even suggest it.  They believe everyone will heal gradually and very slowly, and taking risks with that process is not worth it for people who have been off the drugs too long.  That's what I decided for myself, too.

 

What season are you having in your country, Neroli?  Is it Winter?

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

What season are you having in your country, Neroli?  Is it Winter?

Hello Rosetta

 

Thank you for your extensive and encouraging response.  I didn't want to reinstate on anything last year when I crashed - but the 24/7 anxiety wouldn't lift and of course the medical profession said I wouldn't get through this without medication.  It took me a long time resisting and hoping that it was a wave that would pass - but five or six weeks in I was still the same and had started leaning on benzos.  I saw an article where one woman had been 20 months out from stopping after a slow taper and had reinstated with a different drug and had some success with it.  It was a potentially faustian pact, I know, but I decided to take the risk, I needed to get back to work again and to stop the aweful anxiety.  That's how I've ended up on 3 drugs now.  I have been able to work, as you know, but my legs just don't seem to get better and the underlying anxiety is not far from breaking through.

 

No use me kicking myself for getting back on the drugs - I didn't know how I was going to come through that patch.  Now I have to deal with the here and now and part of that is accepting that there is a new me - a semi-disabled person.  That's tough.  And I hope one day this will resolve - I just worried that I might get even worse being on the drugs.

 

I thank you for your encouragement - it helps to keep me keeping on.

 

It's winter here now.  though thankfully not too cold as yet.

 

Warmest of wishes

 

Neroli💜

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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16 hours ago, neroli said:

Crikey, I'm on mega dose of Nortrip and top dose of Escitalopram.  Have reduced diazepam since last year but am holding because it was thought I might have reduced too rapidly and withdrawals were catching up with me.  Now I just wonder if I'm permanently damaged.

 

 

Exactly what are you taking now, from what dates, at what times of day, and at what dosages? Please update your signature, you can delete everything prior to 2017.

 

How are you sleeping? What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

If you must use a spreadsheet, supply a link to a Google sheet so we don't have to download anything.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Administrator

To iterate:

 

On 1/21/2018 at 4:31 PM, neroli said:

Drug interaction checker report from Drug Interactions Checker , as suggested by ChessieCat

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

Major

nortriptyline  escitalopram

Applies to: nortriptyline, escitalopram

Using escitalopram together with nortriptyline can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should contact your doctor immediately if you experience these symptoms during treatment. In addition, combining these medications can increase the risk of an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious and potentially life-threatening, although it is a relatively rare side effect. You may be more susceptible if you have a heart condition called congenital long QT syndrome, other cardiac diseases, conduction abnormalities, or electrolyte disturbances (for example, magnesium or potassium loss due to severe or prolonged diarrhea or vomiting). Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. You should seek immediate medical attention if you develop sudden dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, shortness of breath, or heart palpitations during treatment with these medications, whether together or alone. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

nortriptyline  diazepam

Applies to: nortriptyline, diazepam

Using nortriptyline together with diazePAM may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate

diazepam  escitalopram

Applies to: diazepam, escitalopram

Using diazePAM together with escitalopram may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

No other interactions were found between your selected drugs.
Note: this does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. Always consult with your doctor or pharmacist.

 

....

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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On 7/22/2018 at 2:06 PM, neroli said:

After reading the Reinstatement and Stabilisation thread, and JamesF's thread I am now frightened witless that I won't get better.  in JamesF's thread you wrote "The reason we are urging caution is because we have seen members become even worse when they have reinstated too high a dose.  And it's not that they get worse and then things improve.  Some of them have become worse and not been able to stabilise, and have to endure destabilisation, which can effect various parts of the body, as well as withdrawal."

 

Please note the final sentence which you did not quote above:

 

On 11/1/2017 at 11:38 AM, ChessieCat said:

The reason we are urging caution is because we have seen members become even worse when they have reinstated too high a dose.  And it's not that they get worse and then things improve.  Some of them have become worse and not been able to stabilise, and have to endure destabilisation, which can effect various parts of the body, as well as withdrawal.  Some of them become very sensitised where even some foods can cause problems.

 

So it's not simply a case of overshooting and then drawing back a bit.  It could destabilise you and it could possibly last for years.  We are trying to prevent this from happening to you.

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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@Altostrata

 

Signature updated.  And here's the link to my latest symptom diary in google docs:   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ncCyb6cvtBOkjDxPyYu-eNn3r0pP_YsmC53Jq026-t8/edit?usp=sharing

 

I have similar symptoms each day, some days worse than others - I don't seem to get a spike of symptoms when I take the drugs, so have been recording the general symptoms throughout the day.

 

My sleep is ok after I've taken the Nortriptyline at 8.45pm from 9.00pm-ish to 12, 1am, 2am, or 3am when I have to gt up to the toilet, then it seems to be a lighter sleep and I usually wake again around 4am and try to doze to some guided meditation.  I never feel refreshed and usually am tired.

 

From the drug interaction checker it seems like the stiff legs and shakes could be mild serotonin syndrome (if there is such a thing as mild SS), and from the other drug interactions there could be the wooziness I experience.  However, the weak wobbly feeling in my legs had started when I was in long-term WD towards the end of 2016, then after I crashed they've never been back to normal.

 

I have been holding where I am to see if I went too fast on the Diazepam taper and could regain some stability - whatever that means for me.  I want to taper the Escitalopram but I just don't know when to start.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

So it's not simply a case of overshooting and then drawing back a bit.  It could destabilise you and it could possibly last for years.  We are trying to prevent this from happening to you.

I don't know why I didn't include this last sentence but I was worried that the latest meds I'd been put on since Feb 2017 had overshot and I was facing years of destabilisation.  I hadn't seen this information at the time I was being re-medicated.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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9 hours ago, neroli said:

I don't know why I didn't include this last sentence but I was worried that the latest meds I'd been put on since Feb 2017 had overshot and I was facing years of destabilisation.  I hadn't seen this information at the time I was being re-medicated.

 

Even people who were prescribed high doses on reinstatement often get well much more quickly than that.  There does not seem to be any way to predict who will be sick a long time even if the person changes nothing. It's not common, I don't believe. The warning that the possibility of years of suffering could occur should not be taken as a prediction that it will occur, but my mind used to go there into that dark and terrifying "future possibility," too.  So, it's only now that I know I'm recovering that I can see how I worried for nothing about being one of the few unlucky people.

 

After my system began to destabilize from the cold switch and subsequent up doses (this was several months after my baby was born) the doctor continued to raise my dose over and over for at least 4 years.  I started at 10 mg the night of the birth and went to 150 by the time my daughter was 4.  I kept getting sicker and sicker! If I can recover from that you can recover from your changes, too.  Don't worry.  

 

Your drug interactions could be causing a lot of your problems, too, I suppose.  Maybe as you reduce the doses you will discover that you were having side effects that mimicked destabilization symptoms or intensified those symptoms.  I know it's difficult to take the risk of decreasing if you feel destabilized, but I hope the mods can help you consider the drug interactions and make a decision that works out for you.

 

Rosetta

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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9 hours ago, neroli said:

From the drug interaction checker it seems like the stiff legs and shakes could be mild serotonin syndrome (if there is such a thing as mild SS), and from the other drug interactions there could be the wooziness I experience.  However, the weak wobbly feeling in my legs had started when I was in long-term WD towards the end of 2016, then after I crashed they've never been back to normal.

 

There are milder forms of serotonin toxicity.

 

Going on and off drugs and experiencing withdrawal and other adverse effects are wearing on the nervous system. This causes hypersensitization to drugs and even supplements and foods, which can amplify any adverse reaction.

 

It's possible that, because of the hypersensitivity, you are having a reaction to the drugs you otherwise wouldn't have, or an adverse reaction is prolonging prior withdrawal symptoms. Your nervous system is doing its best to hang on.

 

Looking at your symptom diary:

 

- Have you always been an early riser? You are waking at about 4 a.m., getting about 7 hours sleep, was that also your pre-drug pattern?

 

- Why do you take diazepam and escilatopram at the same time, 6 a.m.? It appears leg shakes get worse afterward?

 

- It appears you sometimes get nausea after taking diazepam?

 

- When did the occasional heart palpitations start?

 

- Why are you taking diazepam on this schedule? Diazepam 4.25mg - 6.00am, 4mg - 10.00am, 4mg -  3.00pm How long have you been taking 12.25mg per day?

 

Low mood is a side effect of diazepam. Hang in there.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

- Have you always been an early riser? You are waking at about 4 a.m., getting about 7 hours sleep, was that also your pre-drug pattern?

 

- Why do you take diazepam and escilatopram at the same time, 6 a.m.? It appears leg shakes get worse afterward?

 

- It appears you sometimes get nausea after taking diazepam?

 

- When did the occasional heart palpitations start?

 

- Why are you taking diazepam on this schedule? Diazepam 4.25mg - 6.00am, 4mg - 10.00am, 4mg -  3.00pm How long have you been taking 12.25mg per day?

Hello Altostrata

 

Early morning rising has been an issue for a long time - I think it started 10 or so years ago, possibly to do with peri menopause - I don't really know.  But in the past 4 years since the drug changes in 2013-2014 and CT, sleep has been affected, still early waking and at times severe insomnia.  I don't have an idea of a defined pattern except what is happening for me now.

 

I take the Diaz and Esci at that time just because I was advised to take the Esci in the morning by the Dr and because once I crossed from Lorazepam to Diazepam I started the day with a dose of Diaz to settle the shakes.  I'm not sure that the shakes get worse afterwards - that may be the way I've written my diary - the shakes are usually there, along with the lead legs as soon as I get up to shower.

 

The nausea thing has only started in the past few weeks - my stomach seems to range from nausea to acid to feeling hungry after eating.

 

The heart palps started early May as far as I can tell from my records.

 

I split the dose of Diaz into three because I think it kind of followed the pattern of Lorazepam dosage - also I hoped it would keep me stable through the day with no interpose withdrawal.

 

I've been at 12.25mg since 2 June 2018.

 

Thank you for your support to keep hanging in.  Much appreciated.

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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  • Administrator

In early May, you reduced diazepam. That may have triggered the heart palpitations. Or, it could be diazepam-escitalopram interaction.

 

The introduction of diazepam brought in another aspect of drug interactions. They compete for liver enzymes in order to be metabolized:

 

diazepam 3A4

escitalopram 3A4, 2C19; inhibits 2D6

nortriptyline 3A4, 2C19, 2D6, 1A2; inhibits 2D6

 

You have a traffic jam in your liver for enzymes 3A4 (all 3 drugs), 2C19 (escilatopram, nortriptyline), 2D6 (escilatopram, nortriptyline).

 

This means that any of these drugs can be backing up and causing symptoms, but the nortriptyline is causing the most problems because of its interaction with the other 2 drugs. Why are you taking nortriptyline?

 

I think you need to make your diazepam dosing more regular, also take it apart from escilatopram by at least a couple of hours so we can tell if either drug is causing your symptoms. It looks like you need to take the nortriptyline apart from diazepam, too. Please post in your Benzo topic Neroli: Could this be withdrawal symptoms to discuss changing your diazepam schedule.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hello Altostrata

 

Thank you for the information on the liver enzymes and the traffic jam analogy.

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

This means that any of these drugs can be backing up and causing symptoms, but the nortriptyline is causing the most problems because of its interaction with the other 2 drugs. Why are you taking nortriptyline?

I'm taking Nortriptyline because the psychiatrist suggested it would be a useful drug to try, seeing as after four or five weeks the Escitalopram was doing nothing to relieve the anxiety (he had, after all, diagnosed me with major depression with agitation and had strongly refuted my claim that I had been, and was, suffering damage from the previous dosing of a-ds and long-term withdrawal syndrome).

 

My inference from what you have written is that Nortriptyline would be the drug to try reducing next (not Escitalopram as I had thought)

 

Tomorrow morning I will take the Escitalopram about 2 hours later than first thing in the morning, when I take the Diaz. and observe any differences.

 

I will ask the Benzo mods about making the benzo dosing more regular.  But just to clarify, are you suggesting that splitting the doses into smaller ones spread more frequently over the day may relieve some of the shakes?

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It looks like you need to take the nortriptyline apart from diazepam, too.

I'm taking the Nortrip at 8.45pm, which is over five hours from my last dose of Diaz.  Do you mean if I take more regular doses of Diaz. I should avoid taking the Diaz at the same time as the Nortrip?

 

Thank you for your help, it's appreciated.

 

Best widhes

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

After my system began to destabilize from the cold switch and subsequent up doses (this was several months after my baby was born) the doctor continued to raise my dose over and over for at least 4 years.  I started at 10 mg the night of the birth and went to 150 by the time my daughter was 4.  I kept getting sicker and sicker! If I can recover from that you can recover from your changes, too.  Don't worry.

Thank you, Rosetta - you're a wonderful hope propagator!  So good of you to send this useful stuff to me.  You're very generous.

 

I hope your progress is giving you some good breaks, too.

 

Who knows, I may be starting a reduction of one of my other drugs soon - small steps.  It would be lovely to feel some of the symptoms fading...........mustn't get ahead of myself!

 

💜Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Oh, I do want to give you hope!  I want you to know that you will be well again.  This is bad enough without the recurring thought that it will never end which is completely untrue.

 

It is absolutely horrifying how kindled I was especially having never been hospitalized.  The fact the neither me nor my husband were able to identify the problem until after I found this website is yet another horror.  I feel empathy when see people come on this board after quitting the drugs and feeling ill, but when I see someone who has been repeatedly kindled I feel something more.  I can't quite identify the emotion.  Maybe it has no name that really describes it well.  

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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  • Administrator

You need to separate the dosing of all 3 drugs. Please work with Shep in the Benzo forum to set the Diazepam dosing first, then work the others around it.

 

When it comes to changing the schedule for escilatopram and nortriptyline, I would move each drug only an hour in either direction. They are short-acting and you might feel irregular dosing more.

 

Yes, once we work out your dosing schedule, I would reduce the nortriptyline first.

 

Your doctor should have been aware of these drug-drug interactions when he prescribed the drugs, and avoided combining them.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Your doctor should have been aware of these drug-drug interactions when he prescribed the drugs, and avoided combining them.

Thank you, Altostrata

To be honest, when they were prescribing, it seemed to be a pick 'n' mix attitude - the choice was left up to me, really.  eg.  well, we could try Nortriptyline now, or lithium, which would you like to try - that sort of thing.  Apparently no consideration of interactions, or of tapering off one before adding another.  I doubt this type of prescribing is rare.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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  • Administrator
1 hour ago, neroli said:

I doubt this type of prescribing is rare.

 

Unfortunately, it appears it is not.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I will say, though, that the Nortriptyline did help me to get some sleep without keeping taking Lorazepam or Zopiclone in the night , so that was a benefit.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Some thoughts of the day.

 

I forgot to take my carefully worked out lunch and snacks with me to work.  Had to go to the supermarket to get something as innocuous as possible - chose a feta and pumpkin with green leaf salad , and chicken and bacon sandwiches.  Normally I've got plain salad with plain protein, nuts and bread and butter and that just about leaves me feeling ok.  With this supermarket stuff I am bloated and gaseous.  I look at the ingredients and there're all sorts of preservatives, sugar, corn starch, in it.  Proves that I've whittled my diet to something that my digestive system can handle better.  Just plain food.

 

Work: learning new systems, having to write about new systems so other people can use them - stress because I don't know what to include, what to leave out, how much information to give people.  Talk to someone who knows about this stuff and get clearer.  Write a memo to get sign-off for something that hasn't been budgeted for.  Decide what position to take for someone who has asked to use our work and it goes against the standard licensing terms.  And other stuff.  By 3.00pm I'm feeling ill, exhausted, wobbly on my legs and just can't do any more productive work.  Decide to leave early, rather than just stare at a computer screen for the sake of clocking up some hours to go on my timesheet.

 

Doze off on the train home, momentarily, can't let myself do that, it wears me out.  Get home drained.  Will eat salad that I'd prepared for lunch and left behind.  Feel nauseous anyway, so it's probably a good light meal.

 

Will settle down to sleep at 9 - hoping that the exhaustion will give me a reasonable night's sleep.

 

Cannot decide now whether what I am experiencing is the drugs making me feel worse, or withdrawal.  Rock and hard place.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Some symptom diaries:

 

Monday 30 July

 

Changed afternoon dose of Diaz to 4pm (previously 3pm)

 

up 2.30am and 4.00am, toilet

4.30am doze to guided med

5.45 up, shower, lead legs, shakes

6.00am 4.25mg Diaz, cup of tea

6.30am nausea, shiver of anxiousness

7.00 Breakfast, woozy

8.00am 10mg Esci, lead legs, woozy

11.00am 4mg Diaz

Mood a bit lighter

12.00 lunch

flatulence 

3.00 snack

4.00pm 4mg Diaz, legs getting weaker, woozier

4.00 left work

Didn't fall asleep on train

6.00 dinner

7.00 Netflix

8.40 90mg Nortrip

8.55 setle to sleep

 

Tuesday 31 July

up 3.00am toilet, light sleep after

4.30am doze with guided med

5.45 up, shower, shakes, lead legs, tired

6.00 4.25mg Diaz, cup of tea slight nausea

7.00 Breakfast, nausea

8.00 10 mg Esci, woozy, slight heart palp

9.30 hunger/nausea - Banana

11.00 4mg Diaz, hungry Brazil nut snack 

12.15 Lunch, hungry after, legs getting tired

flatulence

3.00 snack

4.00 4mg Diaz

4.15 leave work - legs much more tired

Don't fall asleep on train

6.00 dinner

7.00 Netflix

8.40 90mg Nortrip

8.55 settle to sleep

 

Wednesday 1 August

 

3.30am up for toilet, light sleep after

5.00 wake and doze

5.45 up, shower, very shaky, legs wobbly and very tired

6.00 4.25mg Diaz, cup of tea, legs v. tight and wobbly, v. shaky

7.00 Breakfast, slight nausea

8.00 10 mg Esci

9.30am so tired, legs weak, knees ache, quads ache, lower back aches, nausea/hungry feeling - Banana

10.45 nausea/hungry feeling, v. tired, wave of slight anxiety, down "don't want to live like this"

11.00 4mg Diaz

12.00 lunch, still hungry/nauseous, v. depressed (see years of this s**t ahead)

flatulence

legs getting weaker, tears, thinking of not living

3.00 snack

4.00 left work

didn't fall asleep on train

5.30 legs feeling very wobbly

6.00 Dinner

7.00 Netflix

8.40 90mg Nortrip

8.55 settle to sleep

 

Thursday 2 August

slept till about 4.30am, dozed

5.45 up, shower, shakes, lead legs, tired

6.00 4.25mg Diaz, cup of tea

7.00 Breakfast

work from home

8.00 10mg Esci

8.45 wooziness, inner shakes, anxiousness, lead legs, tinnitus worse

9.00 Banana

10.15 woozy

10.45 Anxiousness increasing

11.00 Tears with Phsyio

11.30 2.00 cancelled walk - legs not up to it, me not up to it

11.45 hungry

12.00 lunch

1.30 feel a bit brighter

2.30 woozy, weaker legs, shakier

3.00 snack, flatulence

4.00 4mg Diaz

5.00 v.tired, v.down, shakes

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello anyone/moderators

 

I've been working with Shep to change my dosing times of all three drugs - to maybe alleviate some symptoms.  I think I was getting to a state of stability but I changed my Esci dosing time by half an hour on Saturday and today - and I have had a bad day with increased weak legs, wooziness and anxiety.  So , I 'm hoping to hold and get more stable.  The thing is, if just a change in dosing time is going to do this to me, I fear making any reductions in the antidepressants at the moment.  Although I do want to try because I wonder if the A-ds are affecting my leg muscles.

 

I have to say, though, that my legs started getting weaker while I was in protracted withdrawal and then they went to bits when I had a physical breakdown.  One and a half years later, and on the drugs I'm now taking, my legs have not got any better and in the last week have got worse (lead legs, wobbly feeling and tired aching muscles). And I've been asking about mild serotonin toxicity in case that is causing more muscle stiffness.

 

I have two questions:

 

1) As it seems I may be very sensitive to any drug changes, do you think it would be better to hold on all drugs at the moment - despite wanting to see if easing of the a-ds would help my legs get stronger?

 

2) Has anyone/does anyone know of anyone who has had this weak leg symptom for a very long time and have eventually regained normal leg and muscle function?

 

Thank you for any responses - always looking for a light of hope.

 

I just realised I have posted quite a bit on the Asthenia and muscle weakness thread about this, so I'm going over old ground - just hoping someone has recovered from this. 

 

Neroli

 

 

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

Link to comment

Hi, Neroli,

 

I'm checking in to say hi.  I hope you get rid of the lead legs.  That was truly awful, but it's more or less passed.  I get a milder version of it once in a while.  I'm you get exercise anyway.  I just sat on the couch back then, and it wasn't good for me.

 

Peace, Rosetta

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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Oh, thanks for checking in, @Rosetta.  I hope you are doing ok - haven't seen you posting much lately (unless I've just missed your posts in the Digest I get).  I really like the way yo keep a log of what is happening for you - and that you have seen some improvement.

 

Lead legs is ugh!  In the scheme of things, I guess all of us are facing some dreadful symptoms to cope with.  I hope all of us get through to a better place.  You, too.

 

Warm wishes

 

Neroli

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Just to record this - I spoke to a person I go walking with when I can - I have been having more trouble with my weak, wobbly legs and the shakes recently, so I phoned her to say I didn't know whether I'd be able to make a walk tomorrow.  She said had I had a stern word with my legs - tell them to work - mind over matter.   So unhelpful.  Makes me feel like a failure for not doing more to will my legs to get better.  Crumbles me until I get my perspective back and remind myself that people in psych med withdrawal have symptoms that completely wipe them, they can't even get out of bed.  If only it was a simple as willing them to work.  I do the best I can.  Honest.

2006 Citalopram 20mg on and off to 2013.  April 2013 - July 2014  Sertraline, Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Mirtazapine v. bad reactions. July 2014 - CT Mirtazapine.  July 2014 - February 2016 Medication free, long term w/d.  February - July 2016 Fluoxetine.  Medication free, long term w/d syndrome.  2017 Jan physical breakdown.

2017 February - March Escitalopram, Nortriptyline instated.  Lorazepam, Zopiclone PRN.  April 2017 Lithium Carbonate 250mg 1 wk. 14 August 2017 finish cross to Diazepam 22.5mg daily, stop Zopiclone

Tapers:

Diazepam 

2017 21 August - 30 Dec 21.25mg to 14.5mg 2018 6 Jan - 11 May to 12mg.  2 June updose to 12.25mg - hold. 2019 (0.5mg cuts) 12 Jan - 28 Dec 12mg to 10mg 2020 (0.25mg cuts) - 25 Jan - 29 Dec 9.75mg to 6.25mg 2021 *May have bungled dose and accidentally took 1mg more for about a month (7.25mg), so 4 Jan started again at 6.5mg; 19 Jan 6.25mg; 1 Feb 6.0mg; 23 Feb 5.75mg; 9 Mar 5.5mg; 23 Mar 5.25mg; 9 Apr 5.0mg; 6 May 4.75mg; 13 May 4.5mg; 6 Jun 4mg; 12 July 3.5mg; 2 sep 3.0mg; 15 Sep 2.5mg; 1 Nov 2mg; 15 Nov 1.5mg; 16 Dec 1mg; 26 Dec 0.5mg; 2022 1 Jan - OFF

Escitalopram - 2022 1 Mar to 9mg; 29 Mar 8mg; 24 May 7mg; 21 Jun 5mg; 19 Jul 4mg; 1 Sep 3mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 31 Oct 1.5mg; 22 Nov 0.5mg; 2023 1 Jan 0.25mg; 1 Mar OFF

Nortriptyline  2018 90mg to 2020 1 Dec down to 72.5mg; 2021 20 May 70mg; 8 Jun 67.5mg; 24 Jun 65mg; 31 July 60mg; 12 Oct 55mg; 23 Oct 50mg; 2022 13 Jan 40mg; 22 Jan 30mg; 29 Mar 20mg; 26 Apr 10mg; 3 Aug 5mg; 23 Sep 2.5mg; 2023 1 Jan - OFF

 

1 March 2023 - off all drugs - 6-year taper off three drugs.

 

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Hi neroli...of course you do the best you can.  Those kind of statements come from people who have no idea what this is about...I certainly would not have.  It is very hard to hear those kinds of things when we are hurting so and feeling 'less than' as it is.  I am sorry that happened.  Continue to take care of yourself as you know best....that is all you can do.  All of us here understand.  Hugs for you!💜

-Nardil 1976 < year, stopped. React to AD's. Klonopin .5BID 1990, 2.5mg til 2016

-Klonopin doubled Jan '16. Taper to 2.25mg May to Nov '16. Bad react to Lexapro, stop. React to Prevacid too, taper off. 

-November '16 Tapered .25mg Klonopin in hospital. Jan '17 started Viibryd, 20mg from Feb to June '17,     

-20mg to 10mg Viibryd from 3/25 to 6/10 2017, 12/15 10% Viibryd taper...back up next day

-Clonazepam 2mg to 1.85mg 4/14 '17 to end November; taper to 1mg Clonazepam in hospital 9/1 tp 9/14 '17

-Feb '18 Amiloride .25mg  5/18 off Amiloride d/t react. Clonaz compounded  

-4/27 '18 Viibryd 9.5mg, 6/11 9.0 mg, 1/27 '19 Viibryd 8.75mg, ; Clonazepam .2mg 530pm and .7mg 1130pm, Premarin .3mg 830PM CARAFATE QID 2/27/19 to 3/5/19

-July 6'19 1/2 10mg Claritin 230pm, stopped it about July 18, started Oct 11 '19, 

-7/27 Viibryd 8.5, 8/29 8.25, 10/24 8.0, 12/19 7.75, Feb '20 7.50, 3/20 7.25, 5/20 7.0, 6/20 6.75, 7/20 6.5, 8/20 6.25, 10/2 20 6.0, 11/25'20 5.75, 1/9/21 5.5, 2/23 5.25

-1015 AM Viibryd, vit D 4,000IU 130, 415 Clonazepam .2mg, 815 Premarin .3mg, 1015 Clonaz .7mg,

  1115 3t fish oil+D 1145 Castor Oil 650mg(4) 1230 Carafate 1/2GM,Methylated B Vit  1/week,Reacted Mag prn

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