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Jony: Cipralex, Victan, Mirtazapine, Nozinan


Jony

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Since my Intro thread seems to have disappeared, this is my new one...

 

What led me to this world of AD's and Benzos was a panic disorder, more than 10 years ago. And the PD was triggered by anxiety and depression.

 

I'm not sure even by these days if that anxiety brought depression, if depression brought anxiety, or both came at same time. But my better guess is that anxiety showed up first and triggered all the rest.

 

Anyway, after many drugs taken such as Paroxetine, Venlafaxine (both caused me severe adverse reactions), Moclobemide, Mirtazapine, Alprazolam, Midazolam, Mexazolam, Diazepam, you name it, eventually I could stabilize with Escitalopram and Ethyl Loflazepate.

 

Two years ago I started to take Mirtazapine to helps me sleep. I had some problems at work and my sleep was affected. 

 

Last November, due some problems (also in my job, but there was more...) I started to feeling more anxious and I can´t sleep...and the whole thing started again. I took Levomepromazine to helps me sleep and my former Psychiatrist told me to stop Mirtazapine.

 

Didn´t work since I felt numb all day long. So I came back to Mirtazapine and started to take Clonazepam. When I knew this site I still tried to drop off Clonazepam, but it was very thoug.

 

However, I already reduced Clonazepam from 2 mg to 1.6 mg as well Escitalopram from 10 mg to 9 mg and now I'm holding, as you can see on my signature.

 

That being said, let me continue with my journal...

 

 

I´ve been noticed one thing, first I didn´t pay attention but now I thought it could be interesting: in the morning I feel more depressed, with all regrets I have, all intrusive thoughts, stuff like that... Later in the day I start to feel better, despite becoming a little bit more anxious since about 5 p.m until I take Clonazepam at night (as discussed on my benzo thread). Let´s say, my best time in day is in the range 1 p.m - 5 p.m. and the mornings always are more complicated. When I just awake all seems to be hard...

 

Is there any explanation for this? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Morning

Escitalopram 10 mg from 2005 to present

Dec 10.17 reduced to 9 mg; reinstated 10 mg; Jan 2.18 9 mg; Fev 12.18 8 mg; Jan 30.20 5 mg; Feb 6.20 reinstated 6 mg

Ethyl Loflazepate 2 mg from 2005 to present

 

Night

Mirtazapine 15 mg from 2015 to present (November reinforcement 30mg) Dec 8.17 15 mg

Levomepromazine 25 mg started November 2017

8/12/2017 12.5 mg; 13/12/17 6.25 mg; 20/12/2017 3.125 mg; 23/12/2017 last 3.125 mg

Clonazepam 2 mg started Nov. 2017 (occasionally) ; last week 2 mg; Dec 19.17 1 mg; Dec 21.17 1.5 mg ; Dec 22.17 2 mg; Jan 2.2018 1.9 mg; Jan 7.2018 3mg; Jan 8.18 2mg; Jan 16.18 1.8 mg; Jan 17.18 1.5 mg ; Jan 18.18 1.7 mg; Jan 19.18 1.6 mg; Fev 12.18 1.5 mg; Jan 30.20 0.5 mg

Xanax XR 1 mg in subtitution of Ethyl Loflazepate 2mg (occasionally)

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ADMIN NOTE This topic was accidentally deleted. With many apologies to Jony, I reconstituted it from Google cache as much as I could.


Moderator note: link to members-only benzo thread - Jony: clonazepam taper off fast

 

BY JONY Posted December 7, 2017

 

Hi,

 

More than ten years ago I had panic attacks and anxiety. After consulting several doctors and taking several antidepressants and benzodiazepines, I was able to stabilize with Cipralex (10mg) and Victan (2mg). (it seems that victan is little known, perhaps because it is marketed in few countries in europe)

 

And during all these years I managed to lead a normal life.
 

Some time ago, two years or so, I had a phase in which I was more anxious, because of some problems, I started taking mirtazapine (15mg) to get a rest and sleep better.

 

A month ago, due to some problems, I felt more nervous and did not sleep well, so the doctor prescribed me Nozinan (25mg) and Clonazepam (2mg). Then he suggested that I stop Victan and take Xanax XR. One week later I was told to take Mirtazapine 30 mg and Clonazepam, instead Nozinan. Yesterday he told me to stop the Cipralex and go back to taking Clonazepam at night.So it would be: Morning: Xanax XR Night: Nozinan, Mirtazapine and Clonazepam.

 

Well, a complete mess, as you can see.

 

I feel that each new drug serves to control the effects of the former one, or the new combination of drugs, so I want to taper this drugs.

 

To summarize: I am currently taking:

Morning

Cipralex 10mg

Xanax XR 1mg 

Night

Mirtazapine 15 mg

Nozinan 25 mg

 

What is the best to taper first?  According to what I read here 

The one I take less time is  Nozinan, one month, so I thought I'd start with this one. And also because Mirtazapine helps to sleep.

 

Nozinan - 25% each 3/4 days, since I only took one month ago.

 

Then, I thought about taper Mirtazapine classic way, 10% each 3-4 weeks, according to symptons...

 

Or is it better to start reducing Cipralex, which is more exciting, and only after mirtazapine?

 

Hugs

 

 

Sorry for may bad english, I hope you understand all.

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BY ALTOSTRATA Posted December 9, 2017

 

Welcome, Jony.

 

How are you feeling on your current drug cocktail? What effect do the drugs have on your sleep?

 

You are taking 3 drugs generally prescribed for sleep: Xanax, mirtazapine, and Nozinan. Those are a lot of "brakes," as we say.

 

In addition, escilatopram (Cipralex), can be activating, keeping you awake.

 

(Please use the pharmaceutical name of your drugs, such as methotrimeprazine for Nozinan, as the trade names are not known in the rest of the world and we have to look them up.)

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BY JONY Posted December 9, 2017

 

@Altostrata I've created a new topic, I thought the other one was lost. I'm new here, excuse me.

 

 

When I took 30mg of Mirtazapine and 20mg of Levomepromazine (just for a month), I felt like a stone. I fell asleep like I was awake a week ago and slept like a rock. I woke up with my mouth extremely dry and I felt my head "empty". I also had nightmares and "vivid dreams" just before waking up. I also noticed problems with the volume of semen as well as lack of libido. Incredible what this drugs do...I also snored even before I fell asleep. 

 

Now I take Mirtazapine 15mg and Levomepromazine 10mg and it took longer to fall asleep and the symptoms I described above have decreased. My sleep is a little bit more natural.

 

During the day I feel normal, calm.

 

That´s why I think it´s best start tapering Escitalopram first...Am I right?

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BY ALTOSTRATA Posted December 9, 2017

 

It sounds like the escilatopram is absolutely unnecessary (and probably always was).

 

See Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

How often do you take Xanax?

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BY JONY Posted December 9, 2017

 

 

@Altostrata 

 

I'm on Escitalopram and Victan (ethyl loflazepate) ten years ago, due to panic attacks. As you say probabably Escitalopram was never necessary, since I've tried several antidepressants and none "fix the problem". The PA went away with the time probably.

 

Escitalopram 10 mg and Victan 2mg (or Xanax XR 1mg) by morning.

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BY POETJESTER Posted December 10, 2017

 

Hi Jony

 

i have been taking mirtazapine (15mg) for sleep off and on since July and have had that same empty head feeling when i wake.   it's been getting progressively worse.  i sleep deeply, but my head feels like a brick when i wake and it takes at least 3 strong cups of coffee to clear my head and make me feel among the living again.  i mean i feel almost brain dead when i wake up.  the past 2 months i have also developed bright red rashes in my armpits that itch and are leaking pus.  i am allergic to the mirtazapine and it's causing late day lethargy, but i am unable to sleep without it, so i am kind of stuck for now.   Anyways,  i am glad that you are at least feeling better with the dose reduction.

 

poetjester - Derek

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BY JONY Posted December 10, 2017

 

Hi @PoetJester

 

In fact, when I took "only" 15 mg didn't notice these symptoms. Only when increased to 30 mg. 

 

But your testimony reminded me of a detail that I haven't explained before.

 

I've always had (little things)"nervous tics" (is it correct?) and over time they have always been magnifying.

 

 

I hope I explained it well.

 

It´s a long time without practicing English.

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BY POETJESTER Posted December 10, 2017

 

hi again Jony

 

i understood what you meant.  30 mg was too much and you felt better at 15mg.  i started on 15mg in a poor state of health from not sleeping much for 3.5 years after quitting zoloft and zyprexa in 2014.  My body was weakened, so 15 mg of mirtazapine was a big dose for my body at the time.  i also am allergic to the mirtazapine and have huge red rashes under my arms now for 2 months.   they are leaking pus and smell terrible, like fish.   i also developed headaches and blurry vision as soon as i started the drug.  i never had any problems with my vision before this. 

 

i also lost much of my libido shortly after starting the mirtazapine  and i  noticed my semen flow was less like you had mentioned.

 

about the "nervous tics", they are common with a lot of these medications.  i don't get them from the mirtazapine, but i have taken other medications that have done some strange things to me.  i was given Haldol once many years ago in the hospital and lost the ability to control my mouth and tongue for several hours.  my tongue hung out of my mouth much like a dog's tongue would and i found it impossible to form words for 4 hours.  many people develop tics from these medications.  zoloft made my eyelid constantly twitch which happens to a lot of people.

 

Derek

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BY JONY Posted December 11, 2017

 

@PoetJesterSorry to hear that. Can't you change your meds? Talking about it with your psychiatrist?

 

As I said I'm on levomepromazine 25mg since November and last week started to split the pill, so I take only 12.5 mg since then. Also reduced mirtazapine to half, 15 mg.

 

But now I have difficult to fall asleep. Yesterday I had to take one clonazepam to sleep.

 

Is it possible that only 3/4 weeks taking levomepromazine and doubling the mirtazapine dose to 30 mg (previous 15 mg, like now) make me feel now withdrawal symptoms?

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BY JONY Posted December 12, 2017

 

One more question...

 

According Dr. Peter Breggin we can reduce 10 percent of the original dose. For example, 20-18-16-14....

 

Since I take two antidepressants can I try this way?

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 13, 2017

 

Hi Jony,

 

Welcome aboard to survivingantidepressants. 

 

To reduce by 10% means that you reduce by 10% of each previous dose.  So when, say you are reducing from 16 mg............you would only want to reduce the dose by 1.6mg. to 14.4 mg.  And then many people reduce by even less than that, say by 5% of the previous dose.  And then hold.  This part is very important.  To hold.  Which means no further medication/drug changes for at least 4 to 6 weeks.

 

It looks like you have made some recent 50% reductions in 2 medications.  And, I feel, that most certainly, you are now experiencing some early withdrawal symptoms..........the sleeplessness for example.

 

You may want to browse around the site some more, especially looking at the tapering, and for some non medication type helps, in the symptom's section.  We like Dr. Breggin a lot here.  Yet, I think you will find even more specifics here, on site, that hopefully lead to the least harm in your medication tapering going forward.

 

What you may also find helpful is to put all of your medications into the drug interactions checker at  "drugs.com" and then share that information with us here in your journal/introduction.  I think if you use the English brand or generic name you might have the best chance of that.

 

Good job on your introduction!  You might consider adding your recent reductions as well, with the dates.

 

I'll give you another assignment as well which will prove helpful.  If you can.........please list your medications, here on your main page, and then the type of symptoms you are experiencing throughout the day.  Here's a example:

 

drugs taken in am and time

symptoms in am(anxiety, neurofear, etc.)

 

drugs taken in the afternoon and time

symptoms experienced in the afternoon

 

drugs taken in the pm and time

symptoms in pm

 

any medications/drugs taken in the night

symptoms in the night (sleeplessness, etc.)

 

Hopefully that will help all of us, to help you, and then we'll find and link you to further areas on this site to help you manage and advise.  In the meantime, you can always just type in a symptom or something you would like to learn more about, into your browser, followed by survivingantidepressants.org.

 

I hope that helps somewhat.  Be patient with us.......and I apologize as I can't quite link you as yet........to more of our topics that might give you comfort now.  I am the "baby" moderator right now.......:);)

 

Best, love, peace, healing/"in recovery", and growth,

 

manymoretodays

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BY JONY Posted December 13, 2017

 

Hi manymoretodays,

 

Thanks for the answer. I did what you ask for about recent reductions and dates.

 

About the list of medications I take, time and type of symptoms, I'm gonna try to explain now.

Morning, since 2005 - Escitalopram (Cipralex) and Ethyl Loflazepate (Victan)

I take the meds shortly after I wake up.

In the morning I feel weak, with no will for anything. My head feels empty. An hour after waking up I feel much better and during the rest of the morning is when I feel a little more normal. This is when I can sleep, of course...

 

During the day I have difficulty concentrating, especially in the afternoon and evening, and headaches.  I've been a little sleepy all day, sometimes numb.

 

Night, since mid 2015 Mirtazapine 15 mg and since November 2017 Levomepromazine 25 mg, now 12.5 mg at dinner time.

At night I feel tired psychologically and physically, I cannot concentrate at all and I feel sleepy but I cannot really sleep.

 

Yesterday I fell asleep at 8 pm, woke up at 9 pm and kept awake until 5 am...

 

Of course today I had headaches and felt numb all day long.

 

Today I will take 6.25 mg of Levomepromazine and hold the dose for 4/5 days, then off.

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 15, 2017

 

Good job Jony. 

 

I am going to have to look up a couple of those medications.  The Ethyl Loflazepate(Victan) and Levomepromazine.  Is the Levomepromazine  also called Nozinan?  I'll see if I can find out what they would be called here in the U.S.

 

I don't know about being on 2 benzo's........the Clonazepam and Xanax........and both have been recently started it appears.  That might not be a good thing.  How often is occasionally?

 

Yah........your prescriber sounds kind of bizarre........quick to make changes or add on more of the same..........yikes.......

 

  On 12/7/2017 at 6:19 AM, Jony said:

I feel that each new drug serves to control the effects of the former one, or the new combination of drugs, so I want to taper this drugs.

 

I think you have a good point here.   

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BY JONY Posted December 15, 2017

 

Hi @manymoretodays

 

Yes, Levomepromazine is also called Nozinan, at least in Portugal.

 

I take Xanax when I do not take Victan. I mean, if I don´t have Victan I take Xanax XR. But I usually take Victan...I took Xanax XR a dozen times...

 

Clonazepam I only take when I couldn´t sleep. Since I'm tapering Levomepromazine right now, I take Clonazepam to help sleep last week.

 

But from now on I will leave both, and stay only with Cipralex, Victan and Mirtazapine

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 16, 2017

 

Hi Jony,

 

Okay thanks.  Try and keep us up to date with what you do day to day...........I think that will help us too.  Just put the day to day in your journal here.  And do use the pharmaceutical names of your medications, like Alto suggested..........it makes it much easier to follow.  Sorry I used the brand name too.........just trying to sort out some of your journal entries.

 

Like what you did here:  except the Noxinan would be listed as Levomepromazine.

 

 

  On 12/7/2017 at 6:19 AM, Jony said:

To summarize: I am currently taking:

Morning

Cipralex 10mg

Xanax XR 1mg 

Night

Mirtazapine 15 mg

Nozinan 25 mg

 

With maybe a bit more detail as far as symptoms you might be having and when those occur.

 

So you have quit the Levomepromazine after decreases?...........and you were only on that for a month?  I did get a chance to look that up.  How is that going?  Any withdrawal?  I think it's possible that that medication may have been the one that left you feeling real icky in the morning. 

 

And so.......the Ethyl Loflazepate is a benzo derivative.  Which you have been replacing with Xanax.   Why are you switching back and forth with these two?  Are you planning to try and taper and get off these as well, later? 

 

Are you sleeping without the Clonazepam now?  I don't think you should use too much more of that.  You've already used it for a week I think you said?

 

You might want to post on the benzo board as well as here.

 

You might be able to start a taper of the Cipralex in a little while.   I think it best though that you get stable on your other medications first though.  You really have made a fair amount of changes already since November.  Additions and then subtractions of medication.  It's a good idea to let things settle for a bit before changes.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

Best,

mmt

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BY JONY Posted December 16, 2017

 

Hi @manymoretodays

 

The switch between Ethyl Loflazepate and Alprazolam was too a experience. But I found out that Ethyl Loflazepate makes me more calm.

 

Concerning Levomepromazine today I will no take. I'm were on Levomepromazine only a month...Let's how this run...

 

I think you might be right. It would be better stabilize on that 3 drugs: escitalopram, ethyl loflazepate and mirtazapine and then start tapering escitalopram. But, once I had started yet, I will keep 9 mg of escitalopram...one more time, let's see how it run...

 

So, from now I only take 9 mg of escitalopram and 2 mg of ethyl loflazepate in the morning, and 15 mg of mirtazapine at bedtime.

 

I'll keep in touch about symptoms and feelings...

 

Best,

Jony

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 17, 2017

 

I copy that Jony.  And please do.  Keep us updated as much as possible.  Daily if you can.  That way you will get more input that should prove helpful in your journey.

 

Best,

mmt

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BY JONY Posted December 18, 2017

 

Well, here I am again.

 

Yesterday I had to take 1/4 pill of Levomepromazine and 2 mg of clonazepam to be able to sleep. Plus 15 mg mirtazapine as usual.

 

It seems that I have here a sleeplessness issue.

 

Let me try to explain...

 

If I take that combo of drugs, I fall asleep easily. Otherwise I can stay awake until dawn...

 

But when I take such meds my "sleep" can be divided in two phases. The first one let me able to rest, the second one only make me dreaming. Vivid dreams that make me wake up very tired and anxious. 

 

All day long I feel sleepy, unwilling to do anything but very anxious. Maybe little obsessed, with obsessive thoughts and compulsions.

 

These are symptoms of worsening mood or due to meds?

 

One more time, let me excuse for  my bad English. If there anything else that you don't understand please let me know...

 

Jony

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 19, 2017 (edited)

 

Hi Jony,

 

Here's what I found on the levomepromazine.  I can't seem to link it today.  It's a phenothiazine, at least somewhat comparable in action to chlorpromazine(Thorazine) and promethazine.  It has strong histamine agonist properties, as well as on the CNS(central nervous system)..........some effect on the dopamine receptors.  Used as an "antipsychotic" in other words, or often in the States here........similar drugs/medications are used as sleep aids, and even as adjuncts(additions) to antidepressants.   

 

You might want to consider reducing it even less than how you are.  If you went down from one tablet to 1/4 tablet........that would be like a 25% reduction.  It's probably most safe to just reduce by 10% or less.   Do you see what I'm saying?  Possibly your sleep and then the daytime anxiety may start to improve a bit.

 

I think your symptoms may be due to the medications.  As well as due to some withdrawal.

 

Best,

 

mmt

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BY SKEETER Posted December 19, 2017

 

Hi Jony,

 

Following what MMT has said above, as you have been on levomepromazine such a short time,  perhaps if you take some a couple of weeks, it will help ease you off a bit more comfortably, and you will not need the benzo. it looks like you did a 2 step taper over 2 weeks, let me know if I misunderstood. your signature  It  Was your insomnia caused by going to 6.25mg of this drug, or did your insomnia start after you stopped taking it totally? 

 

I had an AWFUL experience with benzodiazepines myself, they are very hard to come off of, and you can get hooked in a very short time (just a couple weeks of regular use). So PLEASE do not use them at all if possible. You are on enough other drugs to come off, you  honestly do not want to play with fire, by adding another class of drug to struggle with. I would much rather see you struggle with insomnia a bit  than take the benzo,.. It is honestly better to toss and turn for a week or so, to get used to not having the levomepromazine in your system, than get dependant on these benzo's.  You may already be dependant on the benzo's.  Before you took them for a week straight, how many times a week on average would you take benzo's a week to help you sleep (or any other reason)?

 

Your English is perfect, probably better than mine, so for someone out of practice, you are doing so very well!

 

Be well!

Skeeter

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BY JONY Posted December 19, 2017

 

Hi all,

 

That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. If I continue taking Levomepromazine, even in small dose, I'm afraid to be stuck on that. 

 

So, since I'm on Levomepromazine for a month or so, and reduced yet 75 percent of original dose, I wonder if it's absolutely necessary taper off from current dose...

 

Eventually I have to take clonazepam for a while, or reinforce ethyl loflazepate to be able to sleep. Or even hold and wait  sleep came naturally...But the idea is stop now Levomepromazine before I'm addicted.

 

I think I'd rather raise benzos a little than to introduce a new class of drugs such Levomepromazine...

 

Today I'm going to try a new approach. I will not take Levomepromazine at all and reduce to a half clonazepam.(1 mg)

 

Sleep must be coming eventually...

 

I'm tired of feeling like a zombie...even after sleep 12 hours I feel sleepy...

 

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BY JONY Posted December 19, 2017

 

@manymoretodays

 

I understand your thought, but I will try left Levomepromazine since I'm taking it during a month...I think it's possible...did you don´t?

 

@Skeeter

 

My insomnia started before I'm on it. But it worse the symptoms than the insomnia "itself"...

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 19, 2017

  On 12/19/2017 at 5:03 AM, Jony said:

So, since I'm on Levomepromazine for a month or so, and reduced yet 75 percent of original dose, I wonder if it's absolutely necessary taper off from current dose...

 

Eventually I have to take clonazepam for a while, or reinforce ethyl loflazepate to be able to sleep. Or even hold and wait  sleep came naturally...But the idea is stop now Levomepromazine before I'm addicted.

 

I think I'd rather raise benzos a little than to introduce a new class of drugs such Levomepromazine...

 

Today I'm going to try a new approach. I will not take Levomepromazine at all and reduce to a half clonazepam.(1 mg)

 

Yes, I see now that you have reduced the Levomepromazine 75% already.  You might consider just holding for another week and then attempting to do just 1/8 of the tablet.  This is more of a reduction than we would usually recommend for reducing harm here at SA.........as you have only been on it for a brief period(a little over a months time), you might be okay.

 

I'm not sure about your rationale of "raising" the benzos.  Once on, they come with all sorts of difficulties........depression as well as being addictive substances and may prove, from my understanding........very difficult to get off, as well as sometimes having some severe consequences for many.  Lucky me, I suppose.......in my whole of psychiatric medication/drug use.......the benzo's I was prescribed.......just zombified me and left me almost in a hypnotic trance........so I never continued usage past a day or two.


I think that's great if you can reduce the clonazepam now. 

 

I quoted Skeeter's post here again as it says it all......and also has a couple of questions for you.......

 

  On 12/18/2017 at 7:59 PM, Skeeter said:

I had an AWFUL experience with benzodiazepines myself, they are very hard to come off of, and you can get hooked in a very short time (just a couple weeks of regular use). So PLEASE do not use them at all if possible. You are on enough other drugs to come off, you  honestly do not want to play with fire, by adding another class of drug to struggle with. I would much rather see you struggle with insomnia a bit  than take the benzo,.. It is honestly better to toss and turn for a week or so, to get used to not having the levomepromazine in your system, than get dependant on these benzo's.  You may already be dependant on the benzo's.  Before you took them for a week straight, how many times a week on average would you take benzo's a week to help you sleep (or any other reason)?

 

 

Okay.......I hope you are getting some sleep or did.  Do try some non-medication approaches to sleep and work on your sleep hygiene measures(quiet, no electronics in area, blackout shades or curtains, regular schedule, etc.).  You may find some other valuable resources in our symptom control section as well.

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

 

mmt

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BY JONY Posted December 19, 2017

 

@manymoretodays @Skeeter

 

" Before you took them for a week straight, how many times a week on average would you take benzo's a week to help you sleep (or any other reason)?"

 

Answering the Skeeter´s question: before I took them for a week straight I only taking Mirtazapine. And it worked.

 

Now, since I started on Clonazepam , in the middle of the afternoon I only think about taking my Clonazepam dose to sleep. I feel anxious for that time...(I noticed that´s a short half-life benzo...)

 

Really, I was not thinking well. Raise the benzo's amount only worsened the situation. But increase the dose of Levomepromazine is out of question too...(Levomeprozine side effects are tremendous).

 

So I found another way...taking Mirtazapine 15 mg as I always did, staying on Levomepromazine 6.25 mg like I used to (for a while, may be a week, like manymoretodays suggest, then reduce) and starting to reduce Clonazepam (1 mg)...it may take a while to fall asleep but over time it will be better...I guess...

 

Sounds good to me...what do you think?

 

Best,

 

Jony

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BY SKEETER Posted December 20, 2017

 

Jony,

First, would you mind updating your signature to say that you are no longer taking the ethyl loflazepate? Also, I did not realize  that this drug is a benzodiazepine, my bad on that..  How did you take this drug? How many times a week do you think you used it, and how long did the effects last for you?  Since it is a benzo, you are already dependent on benzodiazepines.  As you noticed, the clonazepam has a short half life, which is why your doc gave you the Xanax XR, the XR stands for Extended Release, excuse my error on this.

 

Did your doctor tell you it was okay to take the Xanax ER together WITH the clonazepam?  Please tell me for each of these 2 drugs, how you are supposed to take it (from the side of the bottle). One pill once a day, etc.

 

You seemed to notice some anxiety today, right?  Was it tolerable or severe?

 

After you reply, I should be able to help a bit more, sorry this is going so slowly for you. 

 

What symptoms were you are getting (possibly from withdrawal) when you do not take the levomepromazine?  Is insomnia one of your issues?  The antihistamine part of this drug might hel you sleep, so I would possibly expect not taking it might give you insomnia.  Did you notice this or any other symptoms when you do not take it vs the days you do?

 

Thank you so much!

Skeeter

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BY JONY Posted December 20, 2017

 

@Skeeter

 

I still take Ethyl Loflazepate along with Escitalopram. It's my morning medication. 

 

I just took the Xanax XR as a Ethyl Loflazepate substitute (one or another..), one-two weeks or so. But I don´t take any more...With Alprazolam (Xanax XR) I felt more anxious. The Ethyl Loflazepate works fine for me...

 

I also take Mirtazapine at bedtime since 2015, to help me sleep ... when it stopped working, maybe because of some problems I had, the doctor added Clonazepam and Levomepromazime. But that brought another problem. I slept well, but felt numb during the day, unwilling to do anything and more anxious...

 

That is why I am reducing levomepromazine and clonazepam (and that is why I feel more anxious now and with sleeplessness issues)...yesterday I took 6.25 mg of Levomepromazine and 1 mg Clonazepam instead 2 mg.

  On 12/19/2017 at 5:28 PM, Skeeter said:

Did your doctor tell you it was okay to take the Xanax ER together WITH the clonazepam?  Please tell me for each of these 2 drugs, how you are supposed to take it (from the side of the bottle). One pill once a day, etc

 

Yes...Xanax XR 1 mg (or Ethyl Loflazapate 2mg) morning and Clonazepam 2mg at night...

  On 12/19/2017 at 5:28 PM, Skeeter said:

You seemed to notice some anxiety today, right?  Was it tolerable or severe?

 

You're right...I felt more anxious but tolerable...Perhaps because Ethyl Loflazepate counter-balance the short half life of Clonazepam. I guess...Even so, I feel more anxious than before started taking Clonazepam. It seems to be a "very heavy" thing...

 

  On 12/19/2017 at 5:28 PM, Skeeter said:

What symptoms were you are getting (possibly from withdrawal) when you do not take the levomepromazine?  Is insomnia one of your issues?  The antihistamine part of this drug might hel you sleep, so I would possibly expect not taking it might give you insomnia.  Did you notice this or any other symptoms when you do not take it vs the days you do?

 

I still haven´t stopped taking Levomepromazine at all. I just reduced that to 1/4 pill (6.25 mg). Today I will try take only 1/8 pill and keep a few days until leave at all...

 

So, yeasterday that it was my cocktail:

 

Morning - 9 mg of Escitalopram and 2mg of Ethyl Loflazapate

Night - 15 mg Mirtazapine, 6.25 mg Levomepromazine and 1 mg of Clonazepam

 

Escitalopram, Ethyl Loflazepate and Mirtazapine have been taking for some time, as you can see in my signature.

 

The new ones here are Levomepromazine and Clonazepam (since November), wich I want to leave as soon as possible and before I'm getting stuck to them...

 

I hope I have answered all your questions. If I did not explain something well, please let me know..

 

Best,

Jony

 

P.S. - I also updated my signature.

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BY JONY Posted December 20, 2017

  On 12/19/2017 at 7:30 AM, manymoretodays said:

Yes, I see now that you have reduced the Levomepromazine 75% already.  You might consider just holding for another week and then attempting to do just 1/8 of the tablet.  This is more of a reduction than we would usually recommend for reducing harm here at SA.........as you have only been on it for a brief period(a little over a months time), you might be okay

I'm holding 1/4 pill for last week, that's why I'm going to try reducing it now to 1/8.

 

I know it is a bigger reduction than what you usually recommend, but I'm on it for few weeks...I will try...

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 15, 2017

 

Hi Jony,

Okay, thank you for answering all the questions, and keeping us up to date.   And yes, we discussed your Levopromazine and thought that since you had only been on it for such a short time......that you might tolerate tapering quicker than the 10%.....  I am going to include our topic(SA) on "why taper by 10%" for you to read and start educating yourself a bit.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

Here is a link to to some ideas for helping with the insomnia.......take a look when you can.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/53-tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-that-awful-withdraw

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BY JONY Posted December 20, 2017

 

Thanks @manymoretodays.

 

I'm aware about 10% rule. I'm just going to taper this drugs faster because I take them not too long ago.  

 

I know that one month may already be enough to get addicted, but I'll try anyway....I hope it works...

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 15, 2017

 

And you slept okay last night?  Or was sleep any better?  I saw your post on "which drug to taper first".

 

  On 12/20/2017 at 8:40 AM, Jony said:

I'm aware about 10% rule. I'm just going to taper this drugs faster because I take them not too long ago.

 

  On 12/20/2017 at 8:40 AM, Jony said:

I know that one month may already be enough to get addicted, but I'll try anyway....I hope it works...

 

Yes, that's fine.  We discussed that.  With the Levomepromazine, it's not really an addiction, but a dependency type thing that can happen.  The benzo's, those are addictive!

 

Sounds good Jony.  Keep going here with notes on your journal/introduction, this is your place to record changes and progress.  As well as where others may offer you support, and share experiences.

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

 

mmt

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BY SKEETER Posted December 21, 2017 (edited)

 

Jony,

Thank you for being so kind and answering all of my questions.  You had a lot going on, and in reading, I missed a couple of points, thank you so much for your patience, I appreciate that so much!

 

I do agree with what you are doing now.  Since you are staying on your old benzo, but are very new to the new benzo (clonazepam) added to your medications in November, and only started taking them in December for only a week (a couple of days over that now, I think), please just be careful how long you stay on it.  If your body is already used to the new benzo, we will find out soon.  Due to my concerns,  I will ask someone from the benzo thread to take a look to see what they think.  The reason we only like to change one drug at a time is so that we know what drug may be causing your symptoms so much easier than if you are changing doses on 2 or more drugs at once.  I do, however, understand that you have worries about becoming dependent/addicted to clonazepam if you stay on it at the same dose  the whole tme you are on the 1/8th of a pill of the levomepromazine for a week or so, depending on how it goes for you.  I hope this makes sense.

 

It seems as if your body/brain does not like the levomepromazine, and I can see why, it is a very complex drug that hits on so many receptors in the brain it is scary, actually..  Let us know how the 1/8 pill goes. You may feel better with the reduced dose, we will have to see. You can wait a few days to see how it goes, or report daily, happy to hear from you!

 

Be well,

Skeeter

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BY JONY Posted December 15, 2017

  On 12/20/2017 at 7:37 PM, manymoretodays said:

And you slept okay last night?  Or was sleep any better?  I saw your post on "which drug to taper first".

 

 

I slept less hours than I used to and it took longer to fall asleep. But this has happened before, even when I was taking "full dose". Despite this, it seems to me that anxiety is controlled...

 

 

  On 12/20/2017 at 7:37 PM, manymoretodays said:

Yes, that's fine.  We discussed that.  With the Levomepromazine, it's not really an addiction, but a dependency type thing that can happen.  The benzo's, those are addictive!

 

I know that psychiatrists do not use the word "addiction" concerning antidepressants or anti.psychotics. Partly they may even be right, but concerning discontinuation symptoms are almost the same thing, I guess.

 

That said, my next appointment with the psychiatrist is only next year. This means that I have only about 7/8 pills of 2mg Clonazepam. Therefore, one way or another, I have to drop off this pills...

 

I also have to say this,  there are a thing that have improved a lot since I started to reduce Levomepromazine : libido is back. That pleases me so much, since I honestly thougth I was losing my sex drive... and it was one more thing to make me eager.

 

  On 12/20/2017 at 8:10 PM, Skeeter said:

I do agree with what you are doing now.  Since you are staying on your old benzo, but are very new to the new benzo (clonazepam) added to your medications in November, and only started taking them in December for only a week (a couple of days over that now, I think), please just be careful how long you stay on it.  If your body is already used to the new benzo, we will find out soon.  Due to my concerns,  I will ask someone from the benzo thread to take a look to see what they think.  The reason we only like to change one drug at a time is so that we know what drug may be causing your symptoms so much easier than if you are changing doses on 2 or more drugs at once.  I do, however, understand that you have worries about becoming dependent/addicted to clonazepam if you stay on it at the same dose  the whole tme you are on the 1/8th of a pill of the levomepromazine for a week or so, depending on how it goes for you.  I hope this makes sense.

 

For now,  it looks like I have the thing under control...but as you said, we will find out soon. I will follow your advice and ask someone from benzo thread...

 

I appreciate a lot your attention, this forum is a unique place on internet, you should think about doing a SA Manual, a kind of Ashton Manual updated...:D

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BY MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 21, 2017

 

Hi Jony,

 

I went ahead and included part of my post from a week ago........it will be especially helpful to us if you can, in your journal/introduction here, keep a more detailed drug/medication and symptom diary.  I included an example in dark grey print below.

 

 

  On 12/13/2017 at 10:15 AM, manymoretodays said:

Hi Jony,

 

Welcome aboard to survivingantidepressants. 

 

To reduce by 10% means that you reduce by 10% of each previous dose.  So when, say you are reducing from 16 mg............you would only want to reduce the dose by 1.6mg. to 14.4 mg.  And then many people reduce by even less than that, say by 5% of the previous dose.  And then hold.  This part is very important.  To hold.  Which means no further medication/drug changes for at least 4 to 6 weeks.

 

What you may also find helpful is to put all of your medications into the drug interactions checker at  "drugs.com" and then share that information with us here in your journal/introduction.  I think if you use the English brand or generic name you might have the best chance of that.

 

Good job on your introduction!  You might consider adding your recent reductions as well, with the dates.

 

I'll give you another assignment as well which will prove helpful.  If you can.........please list your medications, here on your main page, and then the type of symptoms you are experiencing throughout the day.  Here's a example:

 

drugs taken in am and time

symptoms in am(anxiety, neurofear, etc.)

 

drugs taken in the afternoon and time

symptoms experienced in the afternoon

 

drugs taken in the pm and time

symptoms in pm

 

any medications/drugs taken in the night

symptoms in the night (sleeplessness, etc.)

 

 

 

 

 

  On 12/21/2017 at 3:58 AM, Jony said:

I slept less hours than I used to and it took longer to fall asleep. But this has happened before, even when I was taking "full dose". Despite this, it seems to me that anxiety is controlled...

 

I'm assuming you are referring to "full dose" of the Levomepromazine..........yet, not certain........as you could be referring to the Clonazepam.  So.........you can see how this may be helpful to us.

 

How difficult would it be to get another prescription for your Clonazepam prior to running out?  That might be a wise action..........for, just in case of intolerable symptoms.  Can you call your psychiatrists office and work on this.

 

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BY JONY Posted December 21, 2017

  On 12/21/2017 at 7:35 AM, manymoretodays said:

I'm assuming you are referring to "full dose" of the Levomepromazine..........yet, not certain........as you could be referring to the Clonazepam.  So.........you can see how this may be helpful to us.

 

How difficult would it be to get another prescription for your Clonazepam prior to running out?  That might be a wise action..........for, just in case of intolerable symptoms.  Can you call your psychiatrists office and work on this.

 

 

Excuse me, I will try to be more specific from now on. When I talked about "full dose" I was referring to Clonazepam.

 

It will not be easy to talk to him since he's from the NHS ...may be if I ask to my GP...but I'm not sure about her giving me that prescription.

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MANYMORETODAYS Posted December 21, 2017

 

Yes......it might be difficult, at best, as it's a "controlled substance", at least here in the States.  Tell them......GP or shrink that you are attempting to get onto the lowest possible effective dosage.........sometimes that works, but use discretion.........as it's also possible they will just say......."oh, just go off of it......you'll be fine".  When we know that sometimes......that can be difficult if not harmful.

 

Excuse me too.  I forgot to mention dosages in the example/sample that I gave above.  Do note your medication/drug dosages, on a daily basis in your main journal/introduction here. 

 

I think you are doing real well Jony.  Time and patience.......patience and time......

 

Love, peace, healing/in recovery, and growth,

 

manymoretodays

 

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