URGENT request : Make a submission to the Scottish government re: harm done, dependance and withdrawal. You don't even have to be from Scotland.

[ChessieCat]

There are about 150 petitions on the website.  I've read about 50 of them.  I'm finding, as a mod, that it is beneficial reading them because they are concise case studies.  Also, only ever having taken the odd valium during my lifetime, I've found the benzo submissions helpful in understanding the symptoms that members here describe.

[Vanora]

5 hours ago, DrugfreeProf said:

I don't suppose we can still submit testimony?  I'd love to submit Lexi's story and my experiences as her carer. Unfortunately, I was off SA for  much of the period of time when there was a window to submit.

 

There is nothing to stop you from sending your testimony DrugfreeProf, it would be very useful to have it. What we're trying to do at the moment is to avoid a glut of submissions overloading the clerking team. In order to provide them with the full picture of prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal we've had to apply the brakes so that they can process the backlog and give every submission due attention. 

[Vanora]

5 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

There are about 150 petitions on the website.  I've read about 50 of them.  I'm finding, as a mod, that it is beneficial reading them because they are concise case studies.  Also, only ever having taken the odd valium during my lifetime, I've found the benzo submissions helpful in understanding the symptoms that members here describe.

 

I think my overwhelming feeling apart from understanding the terrible suffering both sets of drugs have caused people, is the denial both benzo and antidepressant victims have been subjected to by the medical profession. Barry Haslam has been campaigning on behalf of benzo victims for over 30 years and still they haven't received the full recognition they deserve, bear in mind that benzos have been around since 1960. It makes you worry where we will be in the next 10, 20 years with the SSRI antidepressants.     

[Vanora]

I have some news of interest. On the 29th March at the Scottish Parliament petition PE01627 was considered for a third time by the petitions committee members. It has a great deal of relevance for our own petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal. Annette McKenzie is looking to change mental health treatment for teenagers after her 16 year old daughter took her own life after being prescribed Propranolol. Annette has specifically called for written consent. 

 

You can read about Annette and her daughter Britney here:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42735061#

 

And you can read about the petition here:  http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01627  

 

If you want to see the meeting as it happened:  https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/public-petitions-committee-march-29-2018  Tune in at around 10.59.35.

 

One committee member noted there is an "inadequate approach" to treating anxiety and depression in young people and there should be a stop on giving prescriptions on a first visit to a GP. She voiced concern that there is a systemic problem. It was agreed that the subject requires a longer session in private before a further public meeting is convened.

 

We are still waiting to hear when next petition PE01651 will be considered.  

[UnfoldingSky]

21 hours ago, Vanora said:

 

We are still waiting to hear when next petition PE01651 will be considered.  

 

Can people still submit for this petition?

[Vanora]

50 minutes ago, UnfoldingSky said:

 

Can people still submit for this petition?

 

Yes UnfoldingSky, they can. 

[Vanora]

5 hours ago, data17 said:

 

Thank-you for posting this update, Vanora. I watched the discussion and it looks like they are taking this seriously. I hope some changes will be made. 

 

Your welcome data17. And yes they do appear to taking this seriously. Annette McKenzie deserves no less.

[UnfoldingSky]

4 minutes ago, Vanora said:

 

Yes UnfoldingSky, they can. 

 

Great, thanks for getting back to me!

[Vanora]

For anyone interested our petition is due to be considered some time after 10 am tomorrow morning (26th). You can watch live at this link:

 

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/

 

Look for the Adam Smith Room - Committee Room 5.  

[Altostrata]

Well done, Vanora!

[Vanora]

48 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Well done, Vanora!

 

Thank you Altostrata. We have built up a significant body of evidence for prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal with numerous testimonies from those harmed but also from doctors and psychiatrists - one of the more recent submissions comes from Dr Fiammetta Cosci. As we understand it there are more submissions that have yet to be published on the petition's website. We are looking forward to seeing what transpires tomorrow. 🤞    

[Altostrata]

Please post your observations here.

[Vanora]

Before I forget, I want to thank you Altostrata and everyone on the SA forum who took the time to contribute to our petition. We wouldn't have got this far without your amazing support.  👏

[bubbles]

Vanora, I am in the wrong time zone to have watched it live. Is it archived there? I looked, but couldn't find it.

Thanks

[Vanora]

Just now, bubbles said:

Vanora, I am in the wrong time zone to have watched it live. Is it archived there? I looked, but couldn't find it.

Thanks

 

Funny you should mention it bubbles but I was just about to post a link for anyone who had missed today's proceedings. And here it is:

 

http://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/public-petitions-committee-april-26-2018  Tune at around 10:45.

 

Overall we are very pleased with the results. We are always impressed by two committee members in particular, the convener Johann Lamont and MSP Michelle Ballantyne. They show they understand the problems surrounding prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal and so it was today. Johann started off by noting the unprecedented number of submissions and Michelle found the evidence "very troubling". Indeed, she went on to say that anyone who didn't think there was a problem was "in denial".

 

In conclusion, they plan to write to the Scottish government regarding contact with Public Health England (for anyone who doesn't know PHE has launched a year long review into prescription medicines like antidepressants and benzos that cause dependence and withdrawal) and they plan to contact other professional bodies such as GPs and the BMA, the latter being supportive of a helpline.

 

I would also like to point out a recent and very impressive submission from Dr Terry Lynch whereby he undermines Dr John Mitchell's (the Scottish Government's psychiatric adviser) assertions that antidepressants don't have tolerance issues.

 

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651     

[bubbles]

Thank you Vanora.

 

"Huge and widespread"!

 

Not 100% certain that surveying GPs will be useful.  Do GPs see any "negative impact" of the drugs? Or do they think it's the underlying illness?

 

(This is an article about that English review: https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/01/26/government-launches-landmark-review-into-prescription-drug-addiction/.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Vanora]

You are right about the GPs bubbles. Dr Terry Lynch is going to be writing them a letter expressing his doubts that doctors have a handle on problems of prescribed psychotropic meds.

[bubbles]

That's good to know.

 

 

[Vanora]

PLEASE READ. There is a fantastic article published today in The Herald newspaper in Scotland. It's worth the read. Look out for the comments of Dr Des Spence.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/health/16187177.Experts_in_denial_over_prescription_pill_harm_says_MSP/  

[bubbles]

Great to read. Do we know Marion Brown? Great to have an advocate.

[Vanora]

7 hours ago, bubbles said:

Great to read. Do we know Marion Brown? Great to have an advocate.

 

Marion Brown is the petitioner behind the Scottish petition bubbles. Google her name along with prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal and you will see that she's been widely published in a variety of newspapers, and in medical journals https://www.bmj.com/content/360/bmj.k1408/rr-0  She's done an enormous amount to highlight the issues surrounding PDD and withdrawal. Quite frankly , we think she's an amazing lady. 

 

[Altostrata]

Thanks, Vanora.

 

Quote

In January, Public Health England launched a year-long review to determine the scale prescription pill dependence and withdrawal symptoms, particularly in relation to antidepressants, sedatives, gabapentinoids, and opioid painkillers.

 

[Vanora]

I definitely think we've some reason to feel positive Altostrata.  👍  🙂

[bubbles]

Great to have an advocate.

[Vanora]

I'm hearing that there are plans to start similar petitions in Ireland and in Sweden. Things are gathering momentum folks!

[Vanora]

THE PETITION IS STILL OPEN. Yes folks, we had to slow things down to enable the petition clerks to catch up but the petition still remains open and we still need your help so please think about submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal. Currently it's awaiting its 4th consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

 

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 

 

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 (refers to the size of paper and is roughly equivalent to 2.5 pages for Americans/Canadians) and you can't name for legal reasons any doctors you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. By writing your story you will be helping us to raise awareness for the problems we have with these drugs and hopefully we can establish the necessary services for prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal. 

[Vanora]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 2:55 AM, Vanora said:

THE PETITION IS STILL OPEN. Yes folks, we had to slow things down to enable the petition clerks to catch up but the petition still remains open and we still need your help so please think about submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal. Currently it's awaiting its 4th consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

 

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 

 

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 (refers to the size of paper and is roughly equivalent to 2.5 pages for Americans/Canadians) and you can't name for legal reasons any doctors you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. By writing your story you will be helping us to raise awareness for the problems we have with these drugs and hopefully we can establish the necessary services for prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal. 

 

On the 23rd of May, Talk Radio Europe hosted a programme discussing psychiatric drugs and withdrawal, mainly focusing on antidepressants and benzodiazepines. It features interviews with Professor David Healy and with members of our FB campaign group Prescribed Harm UK. We managed to get a mention for our petition! 👍

 

http://jfmoore.co.uk/tre.html  Available for the next 7 days.  

  

 

I want to remind people that the petition is very much open to further submissions as things have been a bit slow lately. With every extra submission we make the case that we are part of a much wider problem and not something unique or unusual. So please help us to keep up the forward momentum!!   

 

 

[Vanora]

 

http://jfmoore.co.uk/tre.html 

 

  People are telling me that this has no end date - I'm not very technologically minded - so you're free to enjoy beyond 7 days!

[bubbles]

Just listened today, but I think I clicked something and somehow skipped the middle bit. Will listen again if it is still there. Very interesting show.

 

[Vanora]

51 minutes ago, bubbles said:

Just listened today, but I think I clicked something and somehow skipped the middle bit. Will listen again if it is still there. Very interesting show.

 

 

It could be that it sounds a bit disjointed as some clever person in our group made edits to cut out ads and musical intervals. We are really pleased to hear that Talk Radio Europe plan to do a further follow up programme, possibly more than one!  

[bubbles]

I'd definitely listen to a follow up. But I think I did miss some of it because I don't recall hearing all of the stories.

 

[Vanora]

While we wait for the next committee meeting to consider petition PE01651 which will probably reconvene sometime in September, a recent consideration of petition PE01627 happened on the 7th of June. This petition has considerable relevance for our own aims to gain recognition and support for prescribed harmed patients. Annette McKenzie lost her 16 year old daughter after Britney overdosed on Propranolol prescribed for anxiety. Her petition seeks consent for mental health treatment for people under 18 years.

 

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01627  

 

You can watch proceedings at the below link at around 09:55:49

 

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/public-petitions-committee-june-7-2018  

 

The committee have decided to call for a public inquiry into how young people access mental health services.

 

If I could also remind everyone who has contributed a submission to the Scottish petition PE01651 and it's been a few weeks since you sent in your submission but you see no sign of it on the petition's website, please contact the clerks at petitions@parliament.scot and ask if there is a reason for the delay.

 

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651    

[Vanora]

Yesterday, the 25th October, the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal was discussed at the Scottish parliament. Tune in around 10.08.03.

 

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/public-petitions-committee-october-25-2018?clip_start=10%3A07%3A27&clip_end=10%3A21%3A48 

 

They decided to return to the Scottish government on the issue of a 24 hour helpline - which is supported by the BMA - but noted it shouldn't be a substitute for support from prescribers. They also acknowledged that the government is looking to initiate a Scottish focused review which would run parallel with Public Health England's review into medications that cause dependence and withdrawal but a plea was made not to wait for the findings of the PHE review. Johann Lamont the convener recognised that any review would have to show it's independence given the lack of trust and the degree of suspicion evident in the submissions concerning prescribed drug dependence and withdrawal.

 

Included in the recent submissions was a Patient Analysis with patient journey maps as researched and written by Dr Anne Guy, Scottish petitioner Marion Brown and Welsh petitioner Stevie Lewis.

 

http://prescribeddrug.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Voice-of-the-Patient-Petition-Analysis-Report.pdf      

 

If there are still people who haven't as yet sent in a submission please do consider it. This petition has really caught the attention of the committee with unprecedented levels of submissions and we are hoping that it may eventually be debated within the Scottish parliament itself.  

 

 

[Altostrata]

Thanks, Vanora. That Patient Analysis report is brilliant!

[Vanora]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Thanks, Vanora. That Patient Analysis report is brilliant!

 

Thank you Altostrata, I'm very impressed with this document too and it provides a compelling picture of patient experience. Overall, we are making progress albeit slow progress. 

[Vanora]

Yesterday, the 7th of March, our petition was again discussed at the Scottish parliament. I have to tell you that there isn't much further progress to report. Johann Lamont the convener noted that because of the sheer volume of submissions not everything has been posted onto their website. If any of you find that your submission is missing I suggest you contact the clerks via petitions@parliament.scot quoting the petition's reference PE01651 just to ensure it hasn't been mislaid.

 

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651    

 

https://www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/public-petitions-committee-march-7-2019?clip_start=11%3A20%3A12 

 

We expect the committee will meet probably once they've heard from the Public Health England review into medicines that cause dependence and withdrawal (benzodiazepines, antidepressants, z-drugs, gaba-ergic drugs and opioid painkillers) which is due to report in the second half of this year. Likewise, the Scottish government has set up a Short Life Working Group on prescription medicine dependence and withdrawal in Scotland with the aim of working in close tandem with the PHE review. We have asked that the evidence from this petition be considered as part of their focus on Experts by Experience.