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India: withdrawal (dissociation) after 9 years on citalopram


India

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Hi @India, I know it's terrifying and I can only give advice from personal experience. But my instinct is to first stop reinstating/coming off, it sounds like you've done a lot of that this year which will have majorly screwed with your nervous system. It's been a hard pill to swallow but this is likely going to take years rather than months. Accepting that gives you a more realistic view of things and stops the grappling for more or less meds to feel better. I'll let the mods advise you on your current dose, but at this point your nervous system is pretty fried and more than anything needs time and rest. And a lot of it. I reinstated in May at 5mg, thinking I would stabilize and taper six months later in December. I'm now having to hold longer as it's just not enough time.

I also know how confusing it is trying to figure put what is underlying trauma and what is withdrawal. The truth is you can't tell, because withdrawal amplifies whatever is there x1000. More than anything right now your priority needs to be stabilizing a damaged nervous system, and that can only be done with as little interference from med adjustments and external stress as possible. 

Like others mentioned, this will probably be the hardest thing you ever do. But strap in and hold on, you aren't alone and there are many going through this, as well as many who have come out the other side. Different, because who could be the same after this kind of trauma, but having survived. Take care x

2008-2013 - Various meds on and off since age 18 incl. Sertraline, Prozac, Mirtazipine, Abilify. Prescribed for severe OCD.

CT'd several times over these years and reinstated after subsequent psych hospitalisations.

2014-2015 - Clomipramine, quetiapine and Epilum

2015-Jan 2017 - Prozac 40mg (stopped contraceptive pill, most stable period of time)

(Beginning of taper) Jan-October 2017 - Tapered Prozac to zero.

15 Jan 2018 - Reinstated Prozac at 2mg due to acute w/d symptoms

February 2018 - tapered to 1.8mg

May 2018 - reinstated at 5mg due to severe w/d symptoms. 9 month hold, stabilized well at around 6/7 months.

March 2019 - Tapered to 4.9mg

Current supplements: fish oils, probiotic, ashwaganda, colostrum powder, cannabis

 

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Hi India, 

 

If I'm reading correctly you have been on 6 mg citalopram since september 15 after reinstating. Is that right?

 

I've been struggling myself with citalopram for 2 years and venlafaxine before that since 1999. My advice and experience would be to stick to this dose as much as possible for the next couple of months. 

 

You are focusing on your taper in the near future. If I were you I'd focus on your current situation and become as stable as possible.

 

I've been busy for hours creating the perfect tapering schedule and graphs but you cannot predict how you're going to feel and react! The correct order is 

1. Become stable on a dose

2. Begin a very safe taper 

3. Evaluate how that feels and think about a how many % per week/month and stabilizing weeks you will need.

4. Make a tapering schedule but ......

 

......if you cannot stick to it HOLD!

 

I started a taper in April 2018 and kept tight to my schedule but crashed hard because I didn't listen to my feelings and my schedule was holy. Don't make this mistake.

 

I am a bit worried about this 40 mg/ml solution to be honest.

 

I'm a chemist and dosing milligrams with this solution is very inaccurate without a professional volumetric pipette.  It could very well be that one day you get 6.3 mg active ingredient and the next day 5.8. Drops are not always the same size you know. Temperature and clean/dirty syringe can make a difference.

 

I make a solution myself which contains 0.2 mg/ml and this way you can dose very accurately. The margin in these medications is very small in Western Europe and US so dissolving your own pills is very accurate and cheap.

 

I hope you will be stable very soon. I'm trying to stabilize myself and sometimes I think I am and the next day I feel like crap. Time is essential here!

 

Listed to the moderators for correct dose for you but when you find the right dose, take it slowly.

 

I mean, you've been using this stuff for nine years. No need to hurry now!!

 

 

Good luck and keep up the spirit!

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

Sep- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

Apr 2018 -  Jun 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

Jun 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 wks

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose).

 

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg / 27 jun 2.84 mg / 05 jul 2.80 mg / 16 jul 2.75 mg / 23 jul 2.70 mg / 01aug 2.65 mg / 09aug 2.60 mg hold 5wks / 18sep 2.55 mg / 25sep 2.5 mg /02oct 2.45 mg / 10oct 2.40 mg / 19oct 2.35 mg / 27oct 2.30 mg / 05nov 2.27 mg / 14nov 2.25 mg / 22nov 2.20 mg / 29nov 2.10mg / 09dec 2.05 mg / 15dec 2.0 mg 

2023  hold 2.0 mg for 5 months / 05may 1.95 mg / 14may 1.90 mg / 24may 1.87 mg / 02jun 1.85 mg / 17jun 1.82 mg / 27jun 1.79 mg / 07jul 1.75 mg / 31jul 1.72 mg / 12aug 1.69mg / 27aug 1.67 mg / 04sep 1.65 mg / 09sep 1.63 mg / 22sep 1.61 mg / 27sep 1.60 mg / 12oct 1.58 mg / 18oct 1.56 mg / 31oct 1.54 mg / 06nov 1.52 mg / 18nov 1.50 mg / 04dec 1.48 mg / 11dec 1.46 mg / 22dec 1.45 mg / 28dec 1.44 mg

2024 01jan 1.43 mg / 06jan 1.42 mg/ 10jan 1.40 mg hold /

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11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Did you increase to 6mg when you got back to London? How did it make your symptoms worse? What time of day do you take it? What are your symptoms afterward? How is your sleep? Are there any times of day when your stress response is worse?

Thank you for everyone's responses🙏 . My brain is pretty disorganised. I didn't realise I was going off topic . Was replying on that topic  for visibility and to get advice. I've tried to search and read as much as I can on reinstatement but I've identified stm/working memory issues as one of the barriers to absorbing information, so sometimes I forget I have read something previously .

 

To answer, r.e. The 6mg, I upped it around the 22nd when in France ( swimming etc.. very calming environment  and helped me regain some sanity) from 4mg on the 18th, prior to that I had been on 2mg from approximately the 16th September.  I cannot remember if the severe stress breakdown (16th-18th September) prompted reinstatement or if it was after reinstatement I experienced the severe reaction. You are right I must make better notes. At the time I was really ill and terrified. In France (18th-25th) I took passiflora at the same time. It seemed to keep me calm, my "waves" were less intense and I had moments where I broke out of the dissociation but not the slowed memory ( though it improved a little). I have realised environment to be crucial but also perceived threat ( no matter how small). Able to relax away from "real life".  I slept well at night. I was able to drink a coffee a day and the odd glass of wine and be ok. I think being there with my mother felt safe.

i take the liquid at different times of day tbh.. because it makes my heart race at times  (I also have read lots of stories so I wonder also about my association with it , that I slightly fear it). I always take it before 12 in the morning. 

 

I returned to london on the 28th of September for a party, feeling in a calmer more accepting place ( but still feeling the glass screen effect). I drank that night  excessively ( the only night as I've since given up alcohol 7 days and caffeine - 5 days). Before I went to the party I got results that indicated I needed a biopsy for abnormal cell results, I felt a huge surge of cortisol and dissociation on opening. However, I spent my weekend on my friend's boat- we read meditation books and I felt safe and supported ( adding these as I wonder if emotional factors are influencing cns sensitisation as opposed to times of the day).

 

My sleep was ok and also I was fighting anxiety, I kept meditating, deep breathing and moving around. Semi- functioning. On return to my place, that's when these huge morning cortisol spikes started at 4am- truly terrifying - feeling sick and nauseous in extremis. I manage the tenants in my house but the environment is hostile- I want to move but have found myself incapable of sorting anything out ( basic things I once found easy). The tenant was not agreeing to something and I just went into feeling severely threatened as she was getting angry . This disturbed feeling has been very acute in withdrawal and I have never experienced such a sense of fear and detatchment all at once. 

 

My reasoning on reinstatement was based on this website: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/npanth.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/reinstating-ssri-use-during-withdrawal/amp/

that you should get results in 3-4 days. Hence why I updosed. 

Since moving back into my place on the 1st October I have experienced extreme cortisol spikes at 4am every morning. I can get off to sleep ( with the use of kalms which I introduced 4 days ago). This morning the spike was less. 

9 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

also know how confusing it is trying to figure put what is underlying trauma and what is withdrawal. The truth is you can't tell, because withdrawal amplifies whatever is there x1000.

Exactly agree. My diagnosis is trauma and so I used to get terrible night's , often locked out and in pain, deep breathing could trigger it. But this feels completely different and "out of my control". @AbbyElfie yes, totally agree about nervous system. Your advice is very helpful. Acceptance of it has been a bitter pill. I suppose my motivation is always trying to shortcut  and acting impulsively ar times . Also, because I have a siste r and friend who came off effortlessly. 

 

8 hours ago, jozeff said:

I'm a chemist and dosing milligrams with this solution is very inaccurate without a professional volumetric pipette.  It could very well be that one day you get 6.3 mg active ingredient and the next day 5.8. Drops are not always the same size you know. Temperature and clean/dirty syringe can make a difference.

@jozeff Thank you for this invaluable contribution. This maybe explains a lot. What should I do now? Should I go to 5mg by cutting the 10mg in half? I know liquid absorption is 25% increased on the tablets??? That's what it says in the citalopram 40mg/ml solution. If I make my own up do I do it with water and ethanol? Basically, my question to everyone is what dose should I go on if the liquid has been unstable?

Actually, over last weekend I left my liquid at my family home and had to take 10mg  pills cut in half as the pharmacy had supplier problems. This obviously was not a good idea. I did notice that when I was taking the solution I made up last year I felt really dizzy and sick afterwards but I wasn't using a pipette. I am on my way to my family's place and have one there. 

I am writing on my iPhone on a train and it's a bit tricky so I might add another post later. 

 

One of the hardest things is the memory issues ( which I've never had) . I can't find any threads on memory. Is there one?

8 hours ago, jozeff said:

hope you will be stable very soon. I'm trying to stabilize myself and sometimes I think I am and the next day I feel like crap. Time is essential

I really hope you find stability. I felt like I'd turned a corner in France but everyday life threw me into turmoil. I identified with Luke  Montagu , who in his article talked about spending hours ruminating over non-sensical issues like how the house would stay up. Read it here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4173468/My-GP-gave-antidepressants-didn-t-need-20-years.html

. I often find dark thoughts coming into my mind that I feel scared by that I once would have laughed at . 

And yes, yes, after 10 years, why did I risk the shortcut. 

9 hours ago, AbbyElfie said:

Like others mentioned, this will probably be the hardest thing you ever do. But strap in and hold on, you aren't alone and there are many going through this, as well as many who have come out the other side.

This gives me hope. A daily reprieve . Though it's so so hard!! Like you say. The hardest thing I ever did in my life. On top of the issues I went on the drugs for. I can't study ( I was supposed to start a course) or work in this state. It's put me back so much . I found a trauma therapist to work on my trauma not expecting I'd be set by a whole host of iatrogenic symptoms. 

 

My sincerest hope is that this: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/02/antidepressant-withdrawal-symptoms-severe-says-new-report

will be recognised and that proper intensive face to face support and convalescence be offered to ppl going through this. I hope that others  will never have to go through what I have. Surely,  you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy.  

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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I'm in the same boat, impulsive, have seen several stop medication with no problems, have an addictive, 'gratify me now' type personality... You're right, it is so so hard. You'll find super human strength you didnt know you had. It took me a year to really learn the depth of what I was dealing with and start being really patient. I believe on an unconscious level we all chose this life to learn from, balance karma, whatever. Sometimes I think, wtf was my higher self thinking, choosing this?? But one human lifetime really is a spec of dust on the scale of eternity. So we just got to endure and learn were we can, and stay open to the pain and growth. Best of luck, do take care x

2008-2013 - Various meds on and off since age 18 incl. Sertraline, Prozac, Mirtazipine, Abilify. Prescribed for severe OCD.

CT'd several times over these years and reinstated after subsequent psych hospitalisations.

2014-2015 - Clomipramine, quetiapine and Epilum

2015-Jan 2017 - Prozac 40mg (stopped contraceptive pill, most stable period of time)

(Beginning of taper) Jan-October 2017 - Tapered Prozac to zero.

15 Jan 2018 - Reinstated Prozac at 2mg due to acute w/d symptoms

February 2018 - tapered to 1.8mg

May 2018 - reinstated at 5mg due to severe w/d symptoms. 9 month hold, stabilized well at around 6/7 months.

March 2019 - Tapered to 4.9mg

Current supplements: fish oils, probiotic, ashwaganda, colostrum powder, cannabis

 

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2 hours ago, India said:

i take the liquid at different times of day tbh.. because it makes my heart race at times  (I also have read lots of stories so I wonder also about my association with it , that I slightly fear it). I always take it before 12 in the morning.

 

Did you get this heart-racing symptom when you were taking less than 6mg? If not, it could very well be that 6mg is too much for you; I would drop to 5mg. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

Please take your dose at the same time each day. Inconsistent dosing can lead to big problems.

 

More is not better, your nervous system has been sensitized by going on and off psychiatric drugs and adverse reactions.

 

If you are taking a prescription citalopram liquid or one compounded by a pharmacy, you have a true suspension, with particles distributed relatively evenly. If the instructions on the bottle say to shake it before use, shake it. Otherwise, don't, because that will make bubbles that will throw your measurement off.

 

Do you have an oral syringe with ticks for tenths of a mL? If not, request one from a pharmacist. This will enable you to measure more accurately.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Update. Whilst on my iPhone I cannot see my signature but can on my family's iPad. I have re-read all my posts. It's amazing how my memory is failing me. I have re-read over reinstatement advice I was given last year. I am trying to reframe this though! I woke up this morning with a break in the dissociation and no cortisol spike. 

 

I realise I made an error due to memory recall! I reinstated on the 13th September not the 16th. I now remember updating my signature in order to remind myself. Therefore, my 2 day breakdown in which I completely lost my mind ( like a very bad drugs trip) happened between the 16th and 18th September after reinstatement of 2mg ( one drop of the 40mg/ml liquid). I know that I may have been taking 4mg by then because the  medical syringe my doctor gave me would have been measuring out more than 2 drops ( I discussed it with a pharmacist briefly). It's only after receiving a second bottle ( different supplier) of the oral citalopram drops that I read in the accompanying leaflet that there was a 25% increase in strength/bioavailability which meant if you took 20mg tablet you would take 8 drops or 16mg. This was why I then didn't want to use the medicinal syringe ( I called it a pipette in last post- due to my memory  recall issues

). I realise I may have been having a adverse reaction to reinstatement. Because of that, during those two days, I had dark obsessive thoughts (which I think were heightened OCD) because of all the newspaper cases I'd been reading about ssri's . I had to stop reading anything too extreme. 

 

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Did you get this heart-racing symptom when you were taking less than 6mg? If not, it could very well be that 6mg is too much for you; I would drop to 5mg. Please let us know how you're doing.

I don't recall exactly but I think I got a little flutter from the beginning at 2mg or one dropnand more before the 6mg or 3 drops . I was much more aware that I had waited a long time to reinstate and my nervous system was sensitised. Also, the fact that the ds/do was quite constant was a factor in reinstatement. 

 

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If you are taking a prescription citalopram liquid or one compounded by a pharmacy, you have a true suspension, with particles distributed relatively evenly. If the instructions on the bottle say to shake it before use, shake it. Otherwise, don't, because that will make bubbles that will throw your measurement off.

  

 Do you have an oral syringe with ticks for tenths of a mL? If not, request one from a pharmacist. This will enable you to measure more accurately.

Yes, I have exactly this syringe for tenths of a ml. My concern is that if I start measuring out 5mg it will be considerably more than the 3 drops I am taking ( the bottle has a drop dispenser). What do you think? 

The other option is a scale for pills . I was thinking about this if the doctor refuses me the oral drops in the future. 

However, is titration more accurate? There is probably more information on the site. I will try and find it. 

 

I have had a brief window this morning where I don't feel ds/dp. I find these so relieving. It's amazing though how subtly it all kicks in though and suddenly I am back in a wave. 

 

I am trying to alchemise my anger/fear around this situation into bravery and try not to project outcomes. 

 

I take on all the advice.

I will start taking my medication at 10am every morning. This morning I will take my usual 3 drops as I want to wait for reply on what I should do about the syringe. I don't want to send my system crazy. 

 

In regard to reinstatement,  I realise that the time you should wait  is very individual. It seems some stabilise in days and others in months. I thought 3-4 days would be enough hence the updosing. It's true I have not reacted well this time ( last year I updosed after 6/7 weeks of 0mg to 10mg and this worked). 

 

 

 

Edited by India
mistakes punctuation

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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Hi India, 

 

 

MOD NOTE:  Please see this post by Alto:

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

JOZEFF, STOP GIVING TAPERING ADVICE IMMEDIATELY. YOUR ADVICE IS INCORRECT.

 

India, your prescription liquid is fine. You do not have to make a liquid with a tablet at this time.

 

 

These drops are very inaccurate. The solution you use is too high in concentration (40mg/ml).

Therefore you have to take too small a volume to be accurate. Without a pipette or a very accurate syringe this is causing trouble. You will receive a slightly different dose each day.

 

A scale for pills is quite expensive and less accurate than dissolving your pills ( unless you use  laboratory equipment).

 

Let's say you take 5 mg citalopram every day.

 

Dissolve a 10 mg pill in a 50 ml volumetric flask half filled with water (this takes maybe 3 minutes)

 

Add water to the mark.

 

Use stopper and shake the solution

 

 

Pour the solution in a small cup, make sure to swirl before use.

 

Take 25 ml out and drink it (use a syringe for this). These large volumes are much more accurate to work with.

 

Store the other 25 ml in the fridge for the next day.

 

Of course when your dose decreases change these volumes.

 

Citalopram solution ( in tap water) stored in fridge in the dark is very stable for at least a month according to a scientific article I read. 

 

This is really the easiest and fastest way. I've been working as a chemist for 20 years now and we use this method every single day to prepare calibration solutions for many different analysis in i.e. pharmaceutical industry.

 

We never create a very concentrated solution (such as your citalopram 40mg/ml) and take a very small volume from it simply because it is too unreliable. Counting drops is absolutely non existing in analytical chemistry 😉.

 

Weighing your pills is also rather time consuming because you'll have to scrape very small parts of the tablet.

 

 

Let me know how this goes. I literally spend not more than 3 minutes each day to prepare this solution.

 

Cheers

Jozeff

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added mod note

Sep- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

Apr 2018 -  Jun 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

Jun 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 wks

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose).

 

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg / 27 jun 2.84 mg / 05 jul 2.80 mg / 16 jul 2.75 mg / 23 jul 2.70 mg / 01aug 2.65 mg / 09aug 2.60 mg hold 5wks / 18sep 2.55 mg / 25sep 2.5 mg /02oct 2.45 mg / 10oct 2.40 mg / 19oct 2.35 mg / 27oct 2.30 mg / 05nov 2.27 mg / 14nov 2.25 mg / 22nov 2.20 mg / 29nov 2.10mg / 09dec 2.05 mg / 15dec 2.0 mg 

2023  hold 2.0 mg for 5 months / 05may 1.95 mg / 14may 1.90 mg / 24may 1.87 mg / 02jun 1.85 mg / 17jun 1.82 mg / 27jun 1.79 mg / 07jul 1.75 mg / 31jul 1.72 mg / 12aug 1.69mg / 27aug 1.67 mg / 04sep 1.65 mg / 09sep 1.63 mg / 22sep 1.61 mg / 27sep 1.60 mg / 12oct 1.58 mg / 18oct 1.56 mg / 31oct 1.54 mg / 06nov 1.52 mg / 18nov 1.50 mg / 04dec 1.48 mg / 11dec 1.46 mg / 22dec 1.45 mg / 28dec 1.44 mg

2024 01jan 1.43 mg / 06jan 1.42 mg/ 10jan 1.40 mg hold /

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Thank you @jozefffor this comprehensive guide. Yes, I realise it's the high amount in a low amount of suspension or liquid so even a syringe won't be as accurate as a  (i have a supply of these) 10mg citalopram tablet in a larger volume of liquid. i have to say i do find the tablets give me less nausea than than the liquid form. My mum's theory is that tablets are slower release in the body. @jozeff or anyone else know about bioavailability? Should I split the liquid dosage for the day into 2.5mg in morning and 2.5mg in afternoon. I will wait to that actually. Tomorrow I will titrate 10mg into 50ml and take 25ml . My measuring syringe only goes up to 1ml in increments of 0.1 with increments of 10 inbetween those. So I am going to need to find another way of measuring 25ml. Perhaps a syringe on the Internet. I may have to use the suspension with tbe syringe until I can get hold of this.

It's really struck me as I type slowly and struggle at times to navigate these pages in my current state but what about the aging population and those with learning difficulties like dyslexia, people who are computer illiterate? There's just no support for them. The older generation are so vulnerable. There is only one telephone hotline in the whole of the u.k and I usually have to call ten times or more to get through. 

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
removed quoted post

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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I took my citalopram drops 6mg at 10:00am an hour later up until now 11:30am I am experiencing the dissociation/derealisation increase. Cognitive faculties particularly to do with coordination/WORKING memory impairment  worsening. So there seems to be a link so far. I will keep writing my symptoms down as suggested. I've now ordered a 20 ml medical syringe off ebay. Amazing how long it can take me to do this and how stressful new information is to my brain ..processing issues. My mum is playing the piano, something that might have been previously enjoyable and it grates on my nerves.

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

Hi India, 

 

 

MOD NOTE:  Please see this post by Alto regarding jozeff's suggestions.

 

 

Very good! You ordered a syringe and that will be easy to take a larger volume. 

 

The more unreliable the syringe the larger the volume you dissolve the pill in to create the same accuracy.

Do you have a 50 ml flask?

 

If you have an accurate scale you can use 50 g of water also. 

 

Citaloprams solubility is 4 mg/ml in water. This is way higher than the solution we are preparing. No need for ethanol or other solvents. Your commercial solution contains some sort of solvent obviously (ethanol probably) because it's so concentrated.

 

I don't know exactly about bioavailability but I do know that citalopram dissolves very quickly in water (in your stomach/mouth also). I feel absolutely no difference when taking the pill or my self-made solution.

 

I take 10 mg in the morning and 8 mg in the evening. You'll have to find out for yourself what feels right. I felt nausea when taking it all in the morning so I splity dose.

 

Good luck!!

 

Jozeff

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added mod note

Sep- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

Apr 2018 -  Jun 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

Jun 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 wks

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose).

 

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg / 27 jun 2.84 mg / 05 jul 2.80 mg / 16 jul 2.75 mg / 23 jul 2.70 mg / 01aug 2.65 mg / 09aug 2.60 mg hold 5wks / 18sep 2.55 mg / 25sep 2.5 mg /02oct 2.45 mg / 10oct 2.40 mg / 19oct 2.35 mg / 27oct 2.30 mg / 05nov 2.27 mg / 14nov 2.25 mg / 22nov 2.20 mg / 29nov 2.10mg / 09dec 2.05 mg / 15dec 2.0 mg 

2023  hold 2.0 mg for 5 months / 05may 1.95 mg / 14may 1.90 mg / 24may 1.87 mg / 02jun 1.85 mg / 17jun 1.82 mg / 27jun 1.79 mg / 07jul 1.75 mg / 31jul 1.72 mg / 12aug 1.69mg / 27aug 1.67 mg / 04sep 1.65 mg / 09sep 1.63 mg / 22sep 1.61 mg / 27sep 1.60 mg / 12oct 1.58 mg / 18oct 1.56 mg / 31oct 1.54 mg / 06nov 1.52 mg / 18nov 1.50 mg / 04dec 1.48 mg / 11dec 1.46 mg / 22dec 1.45 mg / 28dec 1.44 mg

2024 01jan 1.43 mg / 06jan 1.42 mg/ 10jan 1.40 mg hold /

Link to comment
  • Administrator

JOZEFF, STOP GIVING TAPERING ADVICE IMMEDIATELY. YOUR ADVICE IS INCORRECT.

 

India, your prescription liquid is fine. You do not have to make a liquid with a tablet at this time.

 

To calculate your dosage, you need to be mindful of the dilution ratio of the liquid.

 

The dropper might be a little inaccurate. An oral syringe will be more accurate. However, a 20mL syringe is probably too big for measuring your dosage.

 

From your signature, I understand you have a prescription citalopram oral suspension, 40mg/ml , with 2mg in a drop. You are taking 3 drops?

 

To take 6mg, you would take 0.15mL. A smaller 0.5mL or 1mL oral syringe is what you need, it has ticks for hundredths of a mL.

 

(Alternatively, you can dilute part of your suspension with an equal part of water or pharmacy liquid to double your dosage volume. Example: Add 20mL water to 20mL liquid citalopram. This will dilute it to 20mg/mL. To take 6mg, you'd take 0.30mL of the liquid.)

 

However, I am concerned that 6mg might be a little too much for you:

 

9 hours ago, India said:

I took my citalopram drops 6mg at 10:00am an hour later up until now 11:30am I am experiencing the dissociation/derealisation increase. Cognitive faculties particularly to do with coordination/WORKING memory impairment  worsening. So there seems to be a link so far. I will keep writing my symptoms down as suggested. I've now ordered a 20 ml medical syringe off ebay. Amazing how long it can take me to do this and how stressful new information is to my brain ..processing issues. My mum is playing the piano, something that might have been previously enjoyable and it grates on my nerves.

 

Please be sure to take your citalopram at 10:00 a.m. every day and keep notes. This is what will show us whether you might do better with a little less citalopram.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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You're doing great, India. The dosage thing can be so confusing, especially when your brain goes to mush in withdrawal. I'm 28 and was always very sharp mentally, but these days I struggle to form intelligent sentences sometimes. It's like having little holes or voids poked into your brain. But it sounds like you have a strong, healthy attitude and I hope you find some stability soon.

2008-2013 - Various meds on and off since age 18 incl. Sertraline, Prozac, Mirtazipine, Abilify. Prescribed for severe OCD.

CT'd several times over these years and reinstated after subsequent psych hospitalisations.

2014-2015 - Clomipramine, quetiapine and Epilum

2015-Jan 2017 - Prozac 40mg (stopped contraceptive pill, most stable period of time)

(Beginning of taper) Jan-October 2017 - Tapered Prozac to zero.

15 Jan 2018 - Reinstated Prozac at 2mg due to acute w/d symptoms

February 2018 - tapered to 1.8mg

May 2018 - reinstated at 5mg due to severe w/d symptoms. 9 month hold, stabilized well at around 6/7 months.

March 2019 - Tapered to 4.9mg

Current supplements: fish oils, probiotic, ashwaganda, colostrum powder, cannabis

 

Link to comment

Alto, I'm not giving tapering advice at all....     MOD NOTE:  Please see Alto's response here.

 

I'm just telling someone how to create a simple solution that is

1. Cheaper

2. Very likely more accurate

 

It is someone's free choice to dissolve a pill or to use the solution.

 

Quote:

"We never create a very concentrated solution (such as your citalopram 40mg/ml) and take a very small volume from it simply because it is too unreliable. Counting drops is absolutely non existing in analytical chemistry"

 

 Ok, this might give the impression that the prescription liquid is no good. That is absolutely not what I mean. All I'm trying to say is that it may be less accurate for someone who is very sensitive to fluctuations in dose.

 

Quote:

"Listed to the moderators for correct dose for you but when you find the right dose, take it slowly."

 

I quote myself here so I'm absolutely not advising any dosage. That is not my expertise at all. I'm struggling with finding stability myself.

 

I am a chemist and I do know how to prepare an accurate solution. I've been struggling with AD myself (and reading stuff for 18 years) so I'm not speaking all bulls... here. I have tried a lot of things in my life 

 

I'm trying to help someone with a simple solution preparation and to make sure someone takes the same dose every day......is that worth an official warning?

 

I know, the internet is dark and you never now who posts things. However, you don't necessarily need to be a moderator of SAD to deliver a valuable contribution to this kind of material.

 

I'll reconsider spending so much time trying to help others..

 

Jozeff

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added mod note

Sep- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

Apr 2018 -  Jun 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

Jun 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 wks

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose).

 

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg / 27 jun 2.84 mg / 05 jul 2.80 mg / 16 jul 2.75 mg / 23 jul 2.70 mg / 01aug 2.65 mg / 09aug 2.60 mg hold 5wks / 18sep 2.55 mg / 25sep 2.5 mg /02oct 2.45 mg / 10oct 2.40 mg / 19oct 2.35 mg / 27oct 2.30 mg / 05nov 2.27 mg / 14nov 2.25 mg / 22nov 2.20 mg / 29nov 2.10mg / 09dec 2.05 mg / 15dec 2.0 mg 

2023  hold 2.0 mg for 5 months / 05may 1.95 mg / 14may 1.90 mg / 24may 1.87 mg / 02jun 1.85 mg / 17jun 1.82 mg / 27jun 1.79 mg / 07jul 1.75 mg / 31jul 1.72 mg / 12aug 1.69mg / 27aug 1.67 mg / 04sep 1.65 mg / 09sep 1.63 mg / 22sep 1.61 mg / 27sep 1.60 mg / 12oct 1.58 mg / 18oct 1.56 mg / 31oct 1.54 mg / 06nov 1.52 mg / 18nov 1.50 mg / 04dec 1.48 mg / 11dec 1.46 mg / 22dec 1.45 mg / 28dec 1.44 mg

2024 01jan 1.43 mg / 06jan 1.42 mg/ 10jan 1.40 mg hold /

Link to comment
  • Administrator

jozeff, practically speaking, it doesn't make any sense for India to take on making a homemade solution right now. Her prescription liquid is fine and paid for. It can also be diluted.

 

If for some reason India cannot get the prescription liquid, she can take on the challenge of making her own. But there is no reason to trouble her with additional instructions.

 

Please take into account each individual's circumstances. Many people find their situations overwhelming. We need to keep it simple.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
2 hours ago, jozeff said:

you don't necessarily need to be a moderator of SAD to deliver a valuable contribution to this kind of material.

 

I'll reconsider spending so much time trying to help others..

 

 

Jozeff, I understand you were trying to help, thank you for that.  It's just that it can be confusing for members when people post different advice from the mods.  It sounds like you have some valuable knowledge about the solubility and stability of citalopram, which could be helpful to some members - maybe you could add it to our general topic about making citalopram liquids:  

 

Making a Celexa solution yourself

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

Link to comment

Ok thank you guys for responding.

 

To be honest I reacted to Alto right before i went to bed and I was a little agitated about the warning.

 

Making things more complicated for India is the last thing we want here.

 

Things are overwhelming while tapering. I thought that India was having a lot of trouble taking an accurate dose. Also I heard somewhere that some people have to pay like 150 Euro for these prescription bottles and insurance doesn't pay for it.

 

I may have some knowledge about preparing stuff but the mods obviously know a lot more about how people may be confused about things and what they really need in these situations.

 

I'll continue trying to help people but I'll be focusing on mental support and no longer on Excel sheets and alchemy😉.

 

The mods are keeping this website focussed and clean and that must be appreciated in this complex world.

 

 

Good luck India! Hope you get well soon.

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

 

Sep- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

Apr 2018 -  Jun 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

Jun 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 wks

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose).

 

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg / 27 jun 2.84 mg / 05 jul 2.80 mg / 16 jul 2.75 mg / 23 jul 2.70 mg / 01aug 2.65 mg / 09aug 2.60 mg hold 5wks / 18sep 2.55 mg / 25sep 2.5 mg /02oct 2.45 mg / 10oct 2.40 mg / 19oct 2.35 mg / 27oct 2.30 mg / 05nov 2.27 mg / 14nov 2.25 mg / 22nov 2.20 mg / 29nov 2.10mg / 09dec 2.05 mg / 15dec 2.0 mg 

2023  hold 2.0 mg for 5 months / 05may 1.95 mg / 14may 1.90 mg / 24may 1.87 mg / 02jun 1.85 mg / 17jun 1.82 mg / 27jun 1.79 mg / 07jul 1.75 mg / 31jul 1.72 mg / 12aug 1.69mg / 27aug 1.67 mg / 04sep 1.65 mg / 09sep 1.63 mg / 22sep 1.61 mg / 27sep 1.60 mg / 12oct 1.58 mg / 18oct 1.56 mg / 31oct 1.54 mg / 06nov 1.52 mg / 18nov 1.50 mg / 04dec 1.48 mg / 11dec 1.46 mg / 22dec 1.45 mg / 28dec 1.44 mg

2024 01jan 1.43 mg / 06jan 1.42 mg/ 10jan 1.40 mg hold /

Link to comment

thank you for the advice advice everyone . I am having some  some issues with accurate dosing

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

To take 6mg, you would take 0.15mL. A smaller 0.5mL or 1mL oral syringe is what you need, it has ticks for hundredths of a mL

I have the 1ml oral syringe . What I will do is use my oral liquid 40mg/ml with my 1ml syringe (which has increments of 0.1 and 10 between those).  Once I have run out I will make my own solution as described by Jozeff. 

One problem I have encountered.  I measured out 5mg which according to my calculations is 40/1×5=0.125. However, this is 5 drops . I have currently been taking 3 drops which they say is the equivalent to 6mg. i have just measured out  4mg which is 0.1 and the equivalent of 3 drops . Of course, the drops are drops I am using from syringe not dropper so may not equate but I don't want to dose to high.  Due to my previous adverse reaction on introducing the oral drops, I do not want to go too high. 

 

In terms of expense, we are incredibly lucky that in the u.k we have the NHS which pays for our prescriptions. If you aren't working like me then you receive free prescriptions. I now understand why the doctor (gp) was reluctant to prescribe as they have budgeting margins.

 

I woke up at 7am (not 4am) this morning with more of a window. Still with anxiety but not like it was with the 4am cortisol spikes. My mum massaged me last night and it helped to calm me. I feel clearer headed and much less ds/dp. I think receiving regular and daily support from here is helping me immensely. These windows are relieving to say the least. I am still having to work on keeping my morale up with my two other health conditions.  It's like 3 mountains to climb. Still, when there is no other way through you have to climb them. I know so many people are going through this.

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

Hi India, 

 

How many mg citalopram do you want? I'm a bit confused by all these drops and milligrams you are talking about.

 

How about taking 1 ml of your prescription solution and dilute this to let's say 50 ml with water. You'll have 40 mg citalopram in 50 ml solution. If you take  (50/40)*6=7.5 ml of this solution you have the 6 mg you need. Store the rest in the fridge for later.

 

 

Disclaimer: this is just a  suggestion to get 6 mg citalopram accurately.  I'm not saying she should not use the dropper. Be aware that drops may vary in size/volume depending on temperature.

 

About the massage. That is indeed a very good idea to relax. I wish my wife had this idea a bit more often 😉

 

 

Have a nice day and hope you will heal a bit. Every day it gets better

 

Jozeff

 

Sep- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

Apr 2018 -  Jun 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

Jun 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 wks

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose).

 

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg / 27 jun 2.84 mg / 05 jul 2.80 mg / 16 jul 2.75 mg / 23 jul 2.70 mg / 01aug 2.65 mg / 09aug 2.60 mg hold 5wks / 18sep 2.55 mg / 25sep 2.5 mg /02oct 2.45 mg / 10oct 2.40 mg / 19oct 2.35 mg / 27oct 2.30 mg / 05nov 2.27 mg / 14nov 2.25 mg / 22nov 2.20 mg / 29nov 2.10mg / 09dec 2.05 mg / 15dec 2.0 mg 

2023  hold 2.0 mg for 5 months / 05may 1.95 mg / 14may 1.90 mg / 24may 1.87 mg / 02jun 1.85 mg / 17jun 1.82 mg / 27jun 1.79 mg / 07jul 1.75 mg / 31jul 1.72 mg / 12aug 1.69mg / 27aug 1.67 mg / 04sep 1.65 mg / 09sep 1.63 mg / 22sep 1.61 mg / 27sep 1.60 mg / 12oct 1.58 mg / 18oct 1.56 mg / 31oct 1.54 mg / 06nov 1.52 mg / 18nov 1.50 mg / 04dec 1.48 mg / 11dec 1.46 mg / 22dec 1.45 mg / 28dec 1.44 mg

2024 01jan 1.43 mg / 06jan 1.42 mg/ 10jan 1.40 mg hold /

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  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, India said:

I have currently been taking 3 drops which they say is the equivalent to 6mg. i have just measured out  4mg which is 0.1 and the equivalent of 3 drops . Of course, the drops are drops I am using from syringe not dropper so may not equate but I don't want to dose to high.  

 

A "drop" in pharmacy is 0.05ml.  With your liquid being 40mg/ml this gives you 2mg per "drop",  so 3 "drops" is 0.15ml giving you 6mg of citalopram.  You can't use the syringe to measure "drops", you need to use it to measure 0.15ml to get your 6mg dose.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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thank you @jozeff and @Songbird for the advice. I think for now I will go with the 0.15ml option as it seems a little easier. i was concerned with the  3 drops i had taken every day did  not equate to 6mg and that with the pharmacy dropper giving me less in terms of mg. That is what it says in the medication leaflet, that one drop is 2mg. But it seems 1 drop is 0.05ml so 0.15ml is 6mg. I am about to take it at 10am so I will see how I go. I'll be using the syringe. 

 

Should I add herbal and supplements onto my signature? I am taking kalms day (passiflora) and kalms sleep (passiflora, Valerian). Fish oil capsules and magnesium/ vitamin d. Once I stabilise  my 10% drop down would be to 5.4 mg or 0.135mg according to my calculations. I plan to hold for a few months to get out of the worst of this withdrawal. 

@jozeff the trick is to get her a massager , it's heated and takes the need for strength out of it. It's what my mum uses and actually works very well. This one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Naipo-Handheld-Percussion-Massager-With-Heat-Electric-Back-Massage-for-Stress/24015866199?iid=323148721790&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-134428-41853-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fp%252FNaipo-Handheld-Percussion-Massager-With-Heat-Electric-Back-Massage-for-Stress%252F24015866199%253Fiid%253D323148721790%2526chn%253Dps%26itemid%3D323148721790%26targetid%3D474800454226%26device%3Dt%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9045577%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1485471542%26adgroupid%3D56467544614%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-474800454226%26abcId%3D1139366%26merchantid%3D114890373%26gclid%3DCj0KCQjwgOzdBRDlARIsAJ6_HNkGoX0FIKuf_wChuYxKJJapxEtqzom-nBFqJTWTsBSPN4mXjJIXuLoaAgeHEALw_wcB%26srcrot%3D710-134428-41853-0%26rvr_id%3D1695836893098%26rvr_ts%3D52e4b6221660a4823a5005f4ffe1842f . I find magnesium baths with lavender oil work well as a substitute ( when I am by myself in my London flat I do this).

Should I sterilise syringe everyday? Should I keep liquid refridgerated? It says on label must be kept below 25C. I didn't think about that in France and it was left in apartment and temperatures were getting up to 29C.

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, India said:

Should I add herbal and supplements onto my signature?

 

That's a good idea.  Please include dosages.

 

1 hour ago, India said:

Should I sterilise syringe everyday? Should I keep liquid refridgerated? It says on label must be kept below 25C. I didn't think about that in France and it was left in apartment and temperatures were getting up to 29C.

 

I would give the syringe a good wash, but I shouldn't think you'd need to actually sterilise it.

 

I don't think the liquid needs to be refrigerated but it should be kept below 25C.   If room temperatures are getting above this, then the fridge is probably a better place to keep it.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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new edit (too much time had passed to update)

thank you @jozeff and @Songbird for the advice. I think for now I will go with the 0.15ml option as it seems a little easier. i was concerned with the  3 drops i had taken every day did  not equate to 6mg and that with the pharmacy dropper giving me less in terms of mg. That is what it says in the medication leaflet, that one drop is 2mg. But it seems 1 drop is 0.05ml so 0.15ml is 6mg. I am about to take it at 10am so I will see how I go. I'll be using the one ml syringe with 100 increments, 0.1 with ten increments between to 0.2 as Altostrata mentioned. I did get an A in chemistry at 16 but failed my advanced level lol.. I ended up doing history and literature. I used to love maths but had no natural ability in it... I had to work very hard. Now, I have lost the learned formulas, I  expect a 6 year old could surpass me... This is completely intensified by the medication withdrawal effects. Many years ago I saw an advisor about my dyspraxia and she talked about " acquired dyslexia and learning difficulties" as a result of ssri use. My psychiatrist at the time rubbished her. I feel like she was a harbinger now, of things to come. Most psychiatrists are such myth makers..  and yet constructing their own narratives masquerading as scientific " truth", the ones  I have seen are so  absolute. It is very post-truth (Adam Curtis talks about it in Hypernormalisation). 

 

Should I add herbal and supplements onto my signature? I am taking kalms day (passiflora) and kalms sleep (passiflora, Valerian). Fish oil capsules and magnesium/ vitamin d. Once I stabilise  my 10% drop down would be to 5.4 mg or 0.135mg according to my calculations. I plan to hold for a few months to get out of the worst of this withdrawal. 

@jozeff the trick is to get her a massager , it's heated and takes the need for strength out of it. It's what my mum uses and actually works very well. This one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Naipo-Handheld-Percussion-Massager-With-Heat-Electric-Back-Massage-for-Stress/24015866199?iid=323148721790&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-134428-41853-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fp%252FNaipo-Handheld-Percussion-Massager-With-Heat-Electric-Back-Massage-for-Stress%252F24015866199%253Fiid%253D323148721790%2526chn%253Dps%26itemid%3D323148721790%26targetid%3D474800454226%26device%3Dt%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9045577%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1485471542%26adgroupid%3D56467544614%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-474800454226%26abcId%3D1139366%26merchantid%3D114890373%26gclid%3DCj0KCQjwgOzdBRDlARIsAJ6_HNkGoX0FIKuf_wChuYxKJJapxEtqzom-nBFqJTWTsBSPN4mXjJIXuLoaAgeHEALw_wcB%26srcrot%3D710-134428-41853-0%26rvr_id%3D1695836893098%26rvr_ts%3D52e4b6221660a4823a5005f4ffe1842f . I find magnesium baths with lavender oil work well as a substitute ( when I am by myself in my London flat I do this).

Should I sterilise syringe everyday? Should I keep liquid refridgerated? It says on label must be kept below 25C. I didn't think about that in France and it was left in apartment and temperatures were getting up to 29C.

 

Update . I've taken my meds and I feel quite dissociated. Slight anxiety but no racing heart. The dissociation started coming on a bit before whilst typing. 

 

Does anyone have advice on dissociation/ derealisation ? Should I give into it or fight it?

 

It's possible meds are not going to stabilise me now right? I'm hopeful but it's not been the same as last year when I stabilise after about a  month on reinstatement of 10mg of citalopram tablet form. I suppose I know the answer is very individual from everythingI read. I won't make any drastic changes for a few months and see where I am. It's hard to know if you will stabilise at a higher dose, in my case the 10 mg.. but maybe I am just holding onto that because it's been my dose for the last year before withdrawal. I would rather stabilise at 10 mg in the long run and then go down incrementally if it meant I could get some functioning back.

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

32 minutes ago, India said:

It's possible meds are not going to stabilise me now right? I'm hopeful but it's not been the same as last year when I stabilise after about a  month on reinstatement of 10mg of citalopram tablet form. I suppose I know the answer is very individual from everythingI read. I won't make any drastic changes for a few months and see where I am. It's hard to know if you will stabilise at a higher dose, in my case the 10 mg.. but maybe I am just holding onto that because it's been my dose for the last year before withdrawal. I would rather stabilise at 10 mg in the long run and then go down incrementally if it meant I could get some functioning back.

 

You've made a lot of dose changes including stopping and restarting.  All these changes can cause a lot of confusion in your system.  It could mean that it may take quite some time to stabilise.  It's also possible that some symptoms will remain.  I see people here changing their doses up and down trying to find the perfect dose that fixes all their symptoms, and all it does is further confuse their systems.  There may not be a perfect dose that fixes all the symptoms.  It's important to be very patient, be consistent, and if any changes are made they should be very small so your system can more easily adjust to them.   It's also advisable to avoid caffeine and alcohol.

 

See:  The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

It would be helpful if can you keep notes about your drugs (including supplements), dosages and daily symptom pattern, and post them here each day.  Here's an example of the kind of thing we're looking for (please note this is just a made-up example):

 

23 June

7 a.m. woke up, anxiety 3/10

8 a.m. ate breakfast, took 20mg Prozac tablet

10 a.m. anxiety 7/10, nausea 3/10

12 p.m. ate lunch, anxiety 5/10, nausea 1/10

2 p.m. anxiety 4/10, nausea 2/10

6 p.m. ate dinner, took magnesium tablet 200mg, anxiety 2/10, no nausea

8 p.m. anxiety 1/10

11 p.m. went to bed, anxiety 2/10, difficulty falling asleep for 2 hours

4 a.m. woke up, no anxiety, went back to sleep for 3 hours

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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On 10/7/2018 at 9:29 PM, AbbyElfie said:

You're doing great, India. The dosage thing can be so confusing, especially when your brain goes to mush in withdrawal. I'm 28 and was always very sharp mentally, but these days I struggle to form intelligent sentences sometimes. It's like having little holes or voids poked into your brain. But it sounds like you have a strong, healthy attitude and I hope you find some stability soon.

@AbbyElfie thanks so much for both your comments. I totally agree with growth and pain and seeing it as a spiritual journey of sorts. Yes, to to impulsivity. Perhaps we are both havingto learn to reign that strand in. I wish I could write faster . I would write more but withdrawal is taking it out of me. 

@Songbird thank you for the suggestion. 

8th October

Awoke 8am took passiflora. awoke calm in comparison to previous anxiety states. less ds/dp

10am took 0.15mg of oral citalopram or 6mg

10:15 fish oil with breakfast of eggs

12:20 onwards ds/dp increased 

13h lunch 

14:35 major increase in dp/ds and memory cognitive.  had been 

reading both positive and less positive accounts of withdrawal . listened to to Mad in America podcasts in bed. fatigue

16h passiflora  tablet 

16:30 nature walk felt detached from the beauty of the trees

18h Ate dinner with family 

19h talk with my mum and passiflora which helped my increasing fear and despondency over brain deficits.. left me feeling very calm . My mum encouraged me to focus only on positive perspective and hope . I notice this helps my symptoms,  that connection and her belief in my recovery. I notice at other times i react extremely when I don't feel i am surrounded by safety or kindess. I feel well in contained and safe environments. Or if I contemplate the future.

20h watched period drama with family ..... despite chronic pain when sitting down  which fuels anxiety. distraction helps.

Had chocolate amaretto cake (sugar seems to wake my brain up)

23h felt more " real" in the bathroom... which felt relieving.

23.30H Herbal sleep aid

 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

9th September

Woke 7am after good night's sleep. slight anxiety nothing like before. Took stress relief pill passi flora, Valerian, hops

8am-10am dozed and slept. very calm sleep. awoke a bit more clear. 

10:00am took 1.5ml citalopram or 6mg felt fuzzy headed approx 10mins after. read positive recovery story.

10:30am beautiful day in country, sat in garden, felt a little joy with the sun on my face. I felt relieve to feel something compared to that brain snatched lobotomised feeling. I liked the notion that a temporary shift will eventually become a permanent shift

11:00am breakfast, eggs, virgin coconut ok, sheep's yoghurt with nuts, banana, turmeric, cardamom, ginger, cinnamon, holy basil tea. Fish oil supplement. In garden. Read a little of my 'Managing Depression with Qi Gong' by Frances Gail and Body Mind Spirit by Watkins*

11:30am fatigue

12noon sensory overload dissociation influenced also by creeping negative thoughts and response to physical postural discomfort and the dissociation. Memory issues. Feeling like a few nerve.

12:30-13:30 walk with my mum in nature. Felt the enjoyment but also felt dissociation/ memory issues.. we did some recall exercises.. it took time for me to remember the small places we went to in France . Working hard to deal with my anxiety around this symptom. I notice physical contact like hugging helps. 

I discussed with my mum that the herbal stress relief is keeping my cortisol spikes at bay but might be contributing to the dissociation and memory issues. I will have to work out and gamble whether it's worth dropping this. It has helped my severe anxiety and morning panic awakening which in themselves seem to result in dissociation.

13:40h back home about to rest due to fatigue. Still brain fogged. tbc

*https://www.watkinsmagazine.com

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

I have somehow lost a thread I was replying to! I said I

was quite tired but would reply later. The person in question was struggling. I've looked all through the "content I posted in" and can't find it . If that user comes to my thread then please put  link in to the thread and I will answer. 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

part 2. 9th

late afternoon 4-6pm increasing anxiety but was able to read in sun

dissociation 6/10

6pm bath and meditation helped a little

7pm dinner butternut squash and lentils

8pm tried to sit in family li ing room but senses overloaded 7/10 and their voices felt loud I ad to retire to the guest bedroom 

9pm  my mum gave me a massage.. this helps me so much. Unfortunately, I can't go go a professional as i can't really come with a stranger massaging me... it brings up ptsd. Massage makes me feel happier and less dissociated 3/10. I've noticed dissociation worsens with overstimulation , too many people or too much noise.

10pm meditation  and take herbal sleep remedy which I am going to change for pure passi flora as the sleep relief has a mixture of 3 ingredients : hops, Valerian and passi flora. dosage : 1 pill 34mg hops, 30.8mg Valerian , 15.2mg of passi flora. (versus daytime stress relief 1 pill = 34mg hops, 30.8mg of valerian, 18.2mg of passiflora) Back to London tomorrow for a therapy appointment. not thinking about how I will handle this .Anxiety 2/10

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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  • ChessieCat changed the title to India: tips at 2 month withdrawal stage (dissociation) after 9 years on Citalopram
On 10/9/2018 at 6:19 PM, India said:

9th September

Woke 7am after good night's sleep. slight anxiety

 

@India

Slight update mistake.

You miswrote the date - should be 9th October. 

 

My best wishes for your healing.

 

08/13 - 01/14
Olanzapine, petril MD (Clonazepam ), Dicorate ER (divalproex). Soza 10 (Zolpidem)

02/14 - 05/14
Flunil ​20mg , Divaa OD 250 mg(divalproex), Amisulpride 50mg (1-0-2), zolfresh 5 mg , Quetiapine
05/14 - 08/14 Venlafaxine 75 xr ( 1-0-1), zapiz 0.25
10/14 Zaptra 12.5mg , Oxetol xr 150mg (0-0-1)
11/14 - 08/15
Paris CR 25 (paroxetine) , Oxetol xr 600 mg (0-0-1), nitrest 5mg , Quetiapine for a month.
09/15-11 Venlafaxine XR 75 ( 1-0-1), Mirtazipine 15, Respiredal 0.5, Lamitor 25, zillion 10.
12/15-02/16 Off Meds (C.T)

03/16-Mid April Sertraline, Aripropazole, Quetiapine, Etizolam.

After that : CT and on OTC supplements (Roadback), now on Ayurveda
Link to comment
1 hour ago, bhasski said:

 

@India

Slight update mistake.

You miswrote the date - should be 9th October. 

 

My best wishes for your healing.

 

 

You are right and this is what keeps happening to me. Basic memory errors, as if erased. I try to keep positive. Despite the dyspraxia, a slightly weakened working memory and typing speed I do not make these kind of errors ( I just wrote 'hours'). I sincerely thought it was the 9th of September in that moment that I wrote it. I am trying not to get frightened. I also seem to not have my vibrant, creative strands of thought ( I cannot think of a better word, I would have prior to this). I took the train back to London, and it felt as if I was in a dream. I actually walked by Regent's Park and whispered to myself, " I am in a dream". I felt heavily tranquillised; lobotomised. I seem to recycle through the same thoughts and be unable to connect to new streams. It can all become very jumbled.  I tried to use mindfulness techniques. I find I cannot learn new skills ( like navigating my my mum's tablet which I used when I was staying in my family home). Plus, the processing issues. I am trying not to put my energy into the anger I feel at having been exposed to these neurotoxicity. Please let me get some residue of my old self back, universe.

 

I went to see a new therapist today and she believes me, and in my withdrawal. To be believed means everything, when you have so little to hold onto.

 

Thank you for your wishes. I am not religious but have started addressing the universe when I am distressed. A way to feel less alone,less dislocated, to connect to the interconnectedness of it all.

 

DIARY

Wednesday 10th October

7am awoke feeling less DS/DR 4/10

Read some articles on antidepressant withdrawal

8am Fell back to sleep.

(Phone breaks in middle of night, my alarm does not sound)

Awake 11:20am past medication time

anxiety 4/10

Dissociation/DR 7/10

Take 0.15mg of meds or 6mg

11:30 Breakfast/lunch

12:30pm Meltdown- crying, depression, not feeling real, hopeless about life and physical conditions as well as WD

My mum's consoles me and helps remind me of mindfulness techniques.  I feel as if I am looped in my misery, as if my brain has not other possibilies or avenue or neural connections, avenues I know existed before--default 9/10

2pm DS increases when out trying to get phone fixed.. Sensory/crowds worsen. Dissociation/DR is 9/10

3pm Train to London, Dissociation 8/10 practising acceptance and calmness around it. Sensitivity to loud noise 7/10. Also, subject matter can trigger my anxiety ( overhearing people talk about career, business.I feel as though I am being left behind- on another planet!). Trying to read memory issues=7/10

5pm arrive in London. I am in a dream. Dissociation is practically 10/10 . I accept it and anxiety is around 2/10

6pm New therapist anxiety stays low around 2/10 . Dissociation is 9/10. Memory issues 7/10

8pm Eat vegan pizza. DS same

9pm arrive home. Anxiety is 4/10 DS 8/10

Overall memory issues/deficits are 7/10 today. Worsens with stress. No cortisol attacks. have stopped taking herbal stress relief in the day in case these are worsening dissociation. At the same time, increased anxiety may cause dissociation which means that eliminating herbal stress relief might increase anxiety.

 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

@bhasski Very encouraging to see you have been off all meds since April. How is Ayurveda working for you?

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment
7 hours ago, India said:

You are right and this is what keeps happening to me. Basic memory errors, as if erased. I try to keep positive. Despite the dyspraxia, a slightly weakened working memory and typing speed I do not make these kind of errors ( I just wrote 'hours'). I sincerely thought it was the 9th of September in that moment that I wrote it

 

Dont worry, if I was to say , its one of the basic symptoms of wdl i.e. missing the timeline. I just wanted you have your correct update.

 

I had suffered with it and  I know many here and I know with 100% belief that you were in 9th Sept. ( Happened to me and  still going on with less intensity.) This will get better.

 

7 hours ago, India said:

Very encouraging to see you have been off all meds since April. How is Ayurveda working for you?

Thanks, but I still want people to taper and dont do the mistake of CT as I did.

 

Ayurveda did help when I was in extreme wdl. But not everything I tried helped.. atleast it kept me going.

 

I am now on Homeopathy but still waiting to see any effects. Only thing is I want Allopathy out of my sight.

 

Keep going. Taper slowly - follow @brassmonkey slide taper. You will get better by time. Best Wishes.

08/13 - 01/14
Olanzapine, petril MD (Clonazepam ), Dicorate ER (divalproex). Soza 10 (Zolpidem)

02/14 - 05/14
Flunil ​20mg , Divaa OD 250 mg(divalproex), Amisulpride 50mg (1-0-2), zolfresh 5 mg , Quetiapine
05/14 - 08/14 Venlafaxine 75 xr ( 1-0-1), zapiz 0.25
10/14 Zaptra 12.5mg , Oxetol xr 150mg (0-0-1)
11/14 - 08/15
Paris CR 25 (paroxetine) , Oxetol xr 600 mg (0-0-1), nitrest 5mg , Quetiapine for a month.
09/15-11 Venlafaxine XR 75 ( 1-0-1), Mirtazipine 15, Respiredal 0.5, Lamitor 25, zillion 10.
12/15-02/16 Off Meds (C.T)

03/16-Mid April Sertraline, Aripropazole, Quetiapine, Etizolam.

After that : CT and on OTC supplements (Roadback), now on Ayurveda
Link to comment

@bhasski Thank you for your encouragement . Unfortunately, I did two rapid wd's in the space of 6 months. This time around I have suffered greatly despite reinstatement. I woke up this morning extremely anxious and perturbed by the idea than my serotonin receptors won't grow back. I try to tell myself not to take some of the articles that say this as gospel. When I read something negative such as this my mind goes into overdrive. Often, I feel incredulous this is happening to me. But I have to believe I will heal otherwise what hope is there?!

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

UPDATE: after writing post . I awoke at 7am with anxiety. Passiflora not working as well as I slept lightly . I did a meditation. I visualised Turia Pitt's message about healing (I will post a link to her TED talk later). The shower seemed to wake me up. As I have trauma group therapy starting early I had to take my meds at 8:00am. At first I felt foggy 5/10, and derealization 7/10.  

 

I stood waiting for the bus . On the bus journey I did deep breathing and listened to a meditation on chronic pain and also a hyponosis on self esteem. The strangest thing happened.. I started to wake up from the derealization.

 

I am not particularly a fan of the group as it's CBT and I find it quite detatched but had kept an open mind as it's only for 7 weeks and my gp referrred me.

 

Last week, i sat in complete ds/dr. Today, I woke up more, so that I was about 7/10 present, or 3/10 derealization and about 4/10 dissociation ( a few small episodes during the session). However, stm or working memory still troubling but was able to construct some more complicated  ideas , that's an improvement on yesterday.

 

Then back on the london streets I felt present 8/10.... I felt states of anxiety, of melancholy, of fear about the future of my life, but I felt a smidgen of the "old" me come by. I tried to basque in the beauty of this. This wave seems to have no rhyme and reason.

 

 

However, I can isolate a few factors :

 

1. I took a break from obsessively going over stories that say the damage is permenant. I spoke to my mum on the phone, this morning , about this and decided to tell myself "I will heal, I will recover".

2. I am now taking the exact same amount as measured by a syringe (1.15ml or 6mg citalopram) , at the same time of day. Perhaps it's reinstatement that is working.

3. I have started focusing on reading mindfulness books and positive statements supporting healing ( in the past, I would have been able to read around the evidence in a more detatched and logical way). 

4. I decided to try and accept being in a dream and not fight it, and start panicking (hard) . At the same time, I've been purposely trying to recall words , as many as I can.. a sort of brain game. 

5. As I have functional scoliosis,  I have been working on addressing my fears around this and my body dysmorphia .

 

i am holding onto this clarity because it is going to give me strength. I am trying not to fear myself so to speak. Feeling you have a strong mind and can tackle anything helps fortify you with inner confidence. The trauma of the WD experience can steal that belief in your own mental resilience. Therefore, I am trying to stay present in this moment rather than re-live the other moments. 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment

Hi India, 

 

Thank you so much for your very complete update. Seems like you are definitely on the right track!

 

It is a complex system. WD symptoms, some may last long other not so. The fear that some will be permanent or irreversible is sometimes worse than the actual fear of the symptom itself...

Each time I have these symptoms a voice in my head says that this time it will last forever. Then, a colleague start talking about something very different. Half an hour goes by and I seem to have no symptoms at all...

 

Strange how the mind works. 

 

Very hopeful that your derealisation disappeared somewhat. Very nice to discover that! Breathing and mindfulness can be very powerful. The point is that they become very hard to practice when being in panick or feeling nauseaus.

 

 

Way to go!

 

Hope your stabilizing will continue and you will be able to end this nightmare 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

Sep- 2016 - Okt 2017 citalopram some months 15 mg some months 20 mg

Nov 2017- Apr 2018 citalopram 25 mg

Apr 2018 -  Jun 2018 citalopram 3 month TAPER too fast  from 25mg to 16.5 mg (0.1 mg per day decrease, felt horrible and crashed)

Jun 2018 - Aug13th 2018 citalopram trying to stabilize at 16.5 mg for 5 wks

- August 14th 2018 - April 29th 2019  citalopram 18 mg (1.5 mg updose).

 

2019 apr 27 : START taper citalopram @ 18 mg: 29Jun 16.4 mg / 19aug 15.4 mg / 25aug 15.2 mg / 30sep 14.0 mg / 4dec 13.1 mg

2020  03Jan 12.75 mg / 28Jan 12.29 mg / 18Feb 11.83 mg, 25Feb 11.68 mg hold.. / 7May 11.33 mg hold...., 4Aug 10.98 mg / 5Dec 10.0 mg 4 month hold...

2021 30mar 9.8 mg / 06apr 9.5 mg /  13apr 9.4 mg / 14may 8,5 mg / 04jun 8,0 mg / 11jun 7.75 mg, 02jul 7.35 mg /  09jul 7.2 mg hold 3 weeks during holiday /31jul 7 mg/ 8aug 6.8 mg / 15aug 6.63mg / 22aug 6.5mg / 1sep 6.3 mg / 8sep 6.15 mg / 15sep 6.0 mg / 22sep 5.9 mg / 29sep 5.8 mg / 04 oct 5.65 mg / 10oct 5.55 mg / 17oct 5.45 mg / 24oct 5.35mg / 30oct 5.25 mg hold 3 wks / 22nov 5.15 mg / 01dec 5.1mg / 12dec 5.0mg / 20dec 4.85mg / 30dec 4.70mg

2022   08jan 4.5 mg / 16jan 4.4 mg / 23jan 4.3 mg / 27jan 4.2 mg / 18feb 4.1 mg / 25feb 4.0 mg / 04mar 3.9 mg / 11mar 3.75 mg / 18Mar 3.65 mg / 09apr 3.55 mg / 16apr 3.45 mg / 23apr 3.35 mg / 01may 3.25 mg / 8may 3.15 mg / 17may 3.10 mg / 28 may 3.0 mg / 7jun 2.94 mg / 18 Jun 2.88 mg / 27 jun 2.84 mg / 05 jul 2.80 mg / 16 jul 2.75 mg / 23 jul 2.70 mg / 01aug 2.65 mg / 09aug 2.60 mg hold 5wks / 18sep 2.55 mg / 25sep 2.5 mg /02oct 2.45 mg / 10oct 2.40 mg / 19oct 2.35 mg / 27oct 2.30 mg / 05nov 2.27 mg / 14nov 2.25 mg / 22nov 2.20 mg / 29nov 2.10mg / 09dec 2.05 mg / 15dec 2.0 mg 

2023  hold 2.0 mg for 5 months / 05may 1.95 mg / 14may 1.90 mg / 24may 1.87 mg / 02jun 1.85 mg / 17jun 1.82 mg / 27jun 1.79 mg / 07jul 1.75 mg / 31jul 1.72 mg / 12aug 1.69mg / 27aug 1.67 mg / 04sep 1.65 mg / 09sep 1.63 mg / 22sep 1.61 mg / 27sep 1.60 mg / 12oct 1.58 mg / 18oct 1.56 mg / 31oct 1.54 mg / 06nov 1.52 mg / 18nov 1.50 mg / 04dec 1.48 mg / 11dec 1.46 mg / 22dec 1.45 mg / 28dec 1.44 mg

2024 01jan 1.43 mg / 06jan 1.42 mg/ 10jan 1.40 mg hold /

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Thank you @jozeff I will try to hold onto this because this afternoon after my great morning ,  I experienced a tsunami of a wave, DR came back with a vengeance, and now I am lying down feeling faint with panic, my heart racing and weakness in my limbs..Why? Why? Why? I got really distressed so I will have to start up again with my mindfulness. I wonder if I overdid it? There is so much more stimulus in london. I went food shopping ( though I found it hard to choose food "executive functioning" issues). Then to the park. I feel very unwell. I will write more later. I am trying not to go into the fear.. into acceptance . It is so hard.  

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
Link to comment
6 hours ago, jozeff said:

It is a complex system. WD symptoms, some may last long other not so. The fear that some will be permanent or irreversible is sometimes worse than the actual fear of the symptom itself...

 Each time I have these symptoms a voice in my head says that this time it will last forever. Then, a colleague start talking about something very different. Half an hour goes by and I seem to have no symptoms at all...

Yes and yes. You are a hero to be working also. You are right, I must believe this will shift and pass and know I am not alone in this.This too shall pass. 

1999:  Paroxetine (20mg). Age 16. 2007-2008: Fluoxetine (Prozac) for 1.5 years (age 25) Citalopram 20mg 2002-2005, 2009: Escitalopram (20mg), 2 weeks, (age 26) (adverse  reaction)/*Valium 5mg/Temazepam 10mg 2010: Mirtazipine (Remeron)( do not remember dosage) 2010, 5 months.                     2010-2017: Citalopram (20mg) (age 27 to 34) 2016: i.1st Sept- 31st Oct Citalopram 10mg , ii.1st November 2017-30th November 2017, Citalopram 5mg iii.1st December 2017- 4th February 2018, Citalopram 0mg, iv.5th February 2018- March 2018 Citalopram 5mg (10mg every other day) 28th February- tried titration of 5mg ( some adverse effects)

2018: 1st March 2018- 1st June Citalopram 10 mg (tablet form) /started titration 8mg , then 7 mg.2018: June 15th- 10th July Citalopram 10 mg pill every other day 2018: 10th July - 13th Sept Citalopram- 0mg  (CBD oil first month of 0mg, passiflora on and off) 2018 13th Sept Citalopram  2mg ,  approx 16th Sept 4mg , approx 25th Sept 6mg held.  2019: 11 Feb 19: 7mg (instant bad rxn) 12 Feb 19 6mg held 1 May 19 5.4mg held 5 Oct 19 5.36mg 22 Oct 19 5.29mg 30 Oct 19 5.23mg 4/NOV/19 5.18mg 12 Nov 19 5.08mg 20 Nov 19 4.77mg 7 May 22 2.31mg 17/09/2023 0.8mg

(Herbal/Supplements since 1st September: Omega Fish Oil 1200mg, 663mg of EPA- 2 tablets a day, magnesium and magnesium bath salts)

I did not die, and yet I lost life’s breath
- Dante
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