India: withdrawal (dissociation) after 9 years on citalopram

[ButterflyHope]

@India Im glad to hear of your window you deserve it, I hope it fills you with hope x

[Miko789]

Enjoy your window india,

 

Like Joseff said  before these feelings are here now and they are gone the next moment, nothing lasts forever.

 

Also try some omega 3s , if you haven't already.

 

Wish you luck and healing.

 

Miko

[India]

I've been crying for 3 hours now feeling desperate. I feel hideous because of my mouth tics and the state of my body. Prior to this I had a day of anhedonia and started menstruating. I felt the most intense emotional pain. I have not changed the dose. I felt the absolute worst depression . 

[ChessieCat]

Other members have been feeling an increase in their symptoms due to the stress of the Christmas holidays.

 

Apart from the lead up to Christmas, this can be from eating too much or eating fatty/sugary food.  Drinking more coffee and/or caffeine drinks that usual.  Alcohol?  Staying up later.  Doing more things.  Getting overstimulated.

[Carmie]

Hi India, 

 

I’m so sorry you’ve been feeling so distressed. This really is a hard journey. All of us break down n cry at times, no one would understand what we’re going through unless they’re going through it themselves. I’ve had quite a few meltdowns, but somehow tend to pick myself up again. It’s not easy, but we will the fight one of these days. 

 

I hope you feel a bit a bit better soon.

 

Sending hugs your way🤗

[India]

Thank you everyone. Just an update: there are many more windows from the ad withdrawal symptoms, then I am just contending with chronic pain and ptsd issues . The waves do come . I am learning I can only expose myself to a maximum of 1-2 hours of outside stimulation a day and then I must remain in a calm environment. Temperature regulation is  still a prominent issue- I am constantly trying to get warm and can't- this triggers my overactive bladder. This is a medication effect. I also have that emotional deadness effect - what's the term? Emotional dysphoria??? But there are definite movements forward coupled with terrible relapses. This is definitely a long battle but the windows give you hope.. I try, try , try to be grateful for them. I don't think I will attempt to reduce the 6 mg until I get a real period of stability. But damn, I eventually want to get off these drugs and never touch them ever again. 

[jozeff]

Hi India,

 

Good to hear from you! 

Great to learn you had a window, but unfortunately a wave is always on the way. I admire your self knowledge and the way you describe things.

 

We are so sensitive in WD it is almost redicilous. 

 

You'll get there sooner or later. You will be rewarded for your courage in the end.

 

I hope you will be enjoying a nice window soon, you definitely deserve it!

 

Cheers

Jozeff

[India]

On 1/6/2019 at 8:36 PM, jozeff said:

Hi India,

 

Good to hear from you! 

Great to learn you had a window, but unfortunately a wave is always on the way. I admire your self knowledge and the way you describe things.

 

We are so sensitive in WD it is almost redicilous. 

 

You'll get there sooner or later. You will be rewarded for your courage in the end.

 

I hope you will be enjoying a nice window soon, you definitely deserve it!

 

Cheers

Jozeff

@jozeff how are you? I must express gratitude to you, @ButterflyHope and everyone else that helped me through purgatory, hell, whatever you want to call it. I do get ungrateful pretty fast because although some of those terrible extreme DR/memory symptoms are gone I am still sick. It really struck me today that I feel like someone who has taken stimulants for 10 years, so weakened. I feel heavy, bruised and battered and can only manage a certain amount of stimuli per day, as I mentioned or symptoms return. It is like having permenant flu. Also, this constant bladder issue ( up to 20 times a day - I have to urinate) and brain fog.  Still, I must be grateful for the extended good periods and i say to anyone reading this, that life becomes liveable again. It will change your psyche, but once you accept and move through it, you will realise you are a warrior and that healing will keep happening ( even if it's slow)

I too admire your perspective Jozeff. Seriously thank the universe for this site. I abosultely believe I wouldn't have gotten through without it. I feel like now I am living in a liminal space between the total torture and shutdown I was in to having one foot in the world but not able to inhabit it fully. Everyday I fight with the anger and frustration to be grateful for what I can do. It isn't easy.

 

Just to let everyone know that after a rapid withdrawal ( I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS- PLEASE HEED ADVICE THAT I DID NOT FOLLOW) over 3 weeks in June/july 2018 from 10 mg to 0mg, it took me 5 months to stabilise on 6mg. I would say I am still stabilising (  I cannot reduce any further at present). If I had done it the slow and recommended 10% way back in june, I would probably have avoided the hell I went through and even be on a lower dose now.

 

Still, I celebrate the courage I have had to survive this and reduce from 20mg to 6 mg in 2 years. I have been through 2 years of hell but I am slowly rebuilding myself. Honestly, I have no idea how I am still here but I swear when I am out of  this. I will come back and write my story. Saying 'when' and not 'if'  I recover has been huge shift for me. In the severeness of symptoms, you lose all access to feel there is a way out of this because the intensity of  symptoms become the only reality, it totally dominates and that is the mental torture.

 

Still, i need to moan and saying I AM SICK of feeling freezing all the time with heating on 30C and hot water bottles, thermals, duvets. I am chilled to the bone which worsens my bladder and concentration issues. We all deserve to be well and living life free of this mire. I feel so angry at times but there is no choice but to live it out, to "live through this" as the Hole (Courtney Love's band) album once espoused.

 

Jozeff and Butterfly Hope. Updates? I'll check your pages

[India]

p.s anyone else finding the low light levels and cold weather triggering?

[India]

On 12/4/2018 at 10:01 PM, Miko789 said:

Enjoy your window india,

 

Like Joseff said  before these feelings are here now and they are gone the next moment, nothing lasts forever.

 

Also try some omega 3s , if you haven't already.

 

Wish you luck and healing.

 

Miko

Thanks Miko. I am using those. I am also on iron tablets due to low iron, vitamin d due to low level and magnesium. I've stopped the KALMS.

[India]

On 12/4/2018 at 7:58 PM, Rosetta said:

Enjoy your window!

Thank you so much Rosetta. I must try to grateful for it.Will read your updates once I get chance

[Rosetta]

43 minutes ago, India said:

p.s anyone else finding the low light levels and cold weather triggering?

 

I always do.   I'm sure you are colder and the light is lower, but the change is very hard even here.  WD is simply hard, and it is as if we are never comfortable.  Bright light is tough and so is heat.  We are sensitive.  Being sure to get out in whatever light there is helps, and you will be cold until you get moving.  You will feel better afterward. - R

[jozeff]

Hi India,

 

Thank you for replying. You have come a long way that is for sure. Good to hear you are still very tough. 

 

Well the grey, cold weather is not very stimulating. I love the spring when I can swim and lay on the grass with my boy and wife. Drinking some soda, cooling in the small pool. When I look outside now it gives me somewhat of an unpleasant feeling.

 

Let there be light and warmth.

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[Rabe]

Hi India...just wanted you to know I am thinking about you!  What a journey you have had!  Continue to take care of yourself!  And YES it is amazing and speaks of your courage and strength that you have gotten your dose to where it is!  You are incredible and will heal!!!💜

[Carmie]

9 hours ago, India said:

p.s anyone else finding the low light levels and cold weather triggering?

 

Hi India, 

 

I don’t find these things triggering myself, but lots of people in withdrawals do. I live in a place that’s really warm most of the year, but it was freezing when I went to visit my nieces down south. I’m fine with any weather, but I’m faint all the time because of low blood pressure so I have to be careful in the heat.

 

I’m so sorry you’re struggling so much, sending sunshine your way☀️☀️☀️☀️

[India]

Hello everyone. I'm sorry I haven't replied individually. I really do struggle to type at times. I am feeling really down. Any supportive words would help. I've been feeling very weak and nerves on edge. I didn't say before but I let a guy into my life who seemed really empathetic. But the trip switched when we got intimate. Because I am so delicate I took it hard. His gentleness turned to crudeness. I realised that he has many women. I feel naive for buying into the romanticism he first promised me. It's a pattern for me. But it led me to feel like, well, of course, you had to walk away, my life is so removed from functionality. Though I suffer from dysmorphia and I feel hideous I know men fall for me initially and call me beautiful but they recoil when they realise I am full of pain and quite fragile. I suppose I use the clothes and the way I present myself as an armour. 

Feeling so weak that I can only be out for an hour a day is not going to cut it for most ppl. 

It hurts though. He became very cold with me after being so poetic. I do feel used. A male friend once did warn me that some men see vulnerability and exploit it to get their physical needs met. 

Being in WD has intensified things. London is such a status driven city and so it's not like I have any protectors or carers. I've had to do everything myself for a long time. I also attracted  wild and unpredictable men in the past and have never experienced the feeling of security.. 

Apologies for my self obsession. Just quite consumed. My nervous system so on edge.

my anxiety high.

 

[India]

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2018/05/17/amanpour-allen-frances-antidepressants-interview.cnn

[India]

I am back in a wave again. The depression is bad. I've had a lot of health stuff ongoing and just sick of being sick. Is anyone posting?

I had such a bad meltdown last weekend that I had to take a Valium . Just one 5mg. It's the first time and they are there for extreme emergencies . Haven't taken them since. I don't even know if I should start tapering down 10% now. Maybe things will not stabilise anymore. A lot of my chronic pain and trauma stuff coming up. I feel so so strange. I don't even know where I am am any more, I feel like I am in a topsy turvy cartoon.

i would love to hear from others. Back in bed and fighting my demons 

[Carmie]

Hi India, 

 

I’m sorry you’re struggling so much. With past trauma have you ever tried doing EFT? I’ve done FasterEFT,  and it has helped me a lot with different traumas. There would be practioners in England, or you could do it yourself at home, there are hundreds of videos on YouTube.

 

Just type in FasterEFT and 427 on YouTube and it will give you the basics on how to do it. The video only goes for ten minutes or so. There are hundreds of FasterEFT videos on YouTube. It is very effective. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

[India]

I should try it again. Having a terrifying wave. I'm going to have to start writing up my symptoms again. Tonight was so awful- the terror. I don't know whether to go back up again   in order to try to stabilise more and then reduce again by 10%. It's becoming intolerable having to be back where I was . I just don't know. I don't know anymore. I want to be off them but without the trauma of these terrors. Menstruation seems to be a huge trigger . 

 

[India]

On 1/24/2019 at 11:44 PM, Carmie said:

Hi India, 

 

I’m sorry you’re struggling so much. With past trauma have you ever tried doing EFT? I’ve done FasterEFT,  and it has helped me a lot with different traumas. There would be practioners in England, or you could do it yourself at home, there are hundreds of videos on YouTube.

 

Just type in FasterEFT and 427 on YouTube and it will give you the basics on how to do it. The video only goes for ten minutes or so. There are hundreds of FasterEFT videos on YouTube. It is very effective. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

Thank you. I will try it again.

[Carmie]

Hi India, 

 

Just wanted to pop by again and send hugs, I’m sorry you’re struggling so much🤗

[India]

2 days ago I tried to updose by 10% but my syringe isn't small enough for accurate measuring. I had a wave of symptoms. DR etc , memory issues, racing heart. Next day I went back to previous dose unfortunately to a new brand of liquid provided by chemist. Been feeling malaise, nausea, flu, nerves on edge, stomach ache, stress. This increases at 10pm when I take my meds of 0.15mg dosage. I won't switch to tablets now but try to stabilise on this dose. I realise updosing isn't going to stabilise me further. 

[India]

On 1/28/2019 at 12:03 AM, Carmie said:

Hi India, 

 

Just wanted to pop by again and send hugs, I’m sorry you’re struggling so much🤗

Carmie. I really appreciate this. If I had a magic wand and could go back to July when I jumped off 10mg , how different would my life be now? 

Where are you in your recovery? 

Any support is greatly appreciated. Currently in bed with these symptoms. Determined though. I hope I get well and off these drugs oneday .

[India]

One of the hardest things I find is that having dyspraxia makes it hard to navigate site and I get tired typing/reading alongside the meds symptoms which exacerbate it   . I so wish they had support groups to attend in my city so I could also talk about the struggles as it gives my arms a rest. Still grateful to have it even if it is hard for me to navigate . And always grateful for support 

[India]

2nd feb

9:30am awoke nausea 4/10 pain in teeth 3/10

breakfast 

11:30am walk

nausea 4/10

stomach ache 3/10

pain 4/10

startle response 5/10

light sensitivity 4/10

irritability/anger 7/10

2:30pm a/I 8/10

nausea 4/10

4:30pm nausea 5/10

anxiety 6/10 

took to bed after hot shower

6:30pm dinner 

nausea 4/10 anxiety 6/10

7pm bed rest took magnesium 

meds due 10pm ( previous days increase symptoms of coldness and tiredness.) 

 

 

[India]

Would I be able to get some advice on updosing. I did it for one day and I did it by approx between 0.5-1mg to 0.2increase from 0.15 or 6 mg. I had a reaction- nausea, dissociation, memory issues, increased anxiety. I went back to 0.15mg next day. What should I do now? Stay and stabilise? Because I have spent many months on 6mg I wondered if a slight updose might help but I'm assuming an immediate reaction is not a good sign. Just to clarify by intention is to get off the drugs. The updose was an attempt to get a bit more stable before reduction. It seems like the best option is to stick with 6mg. What about tablets? Should I switch to tablets in 6 weeks? I don't know if I'd do better on 6mg of the tablet , but then again, I last took tablets in July 2018. I currently take the liquid. Any advice from moderators would be gratefully appreciated. 

[Altostrata]

India, did you attempt to updose citalopram? What drugs do you take at 10 p.m., you left that off your daily notes.

 

Do you make your own liquid or do you have the prescription liquid? If the latter, look on the label, has it expired?

 

It sounds like you need a 1mL or 0.5mL oral syringe, with more tick marks. You can get this from a veterinarian.

 

If you're light-sensitive, you might want to get amber glasses for computer work.

 

I would stay at 0.15mg (do you mean 0.15mL or 6mg citalopram?) for a while. Please continue to post your daily notes.

[India]

new symptom (1-2weeks)- neuro emotion of intense rage/irritability 8/10 through day in relation to stimulus overload or any kind of noise or demand from another person

DAILY NOTES:

continued: 2nd Feb 19

8pm massage calmed anxiety from 7/10 to 3/10

10pm took Citalopram 0.15ml or 6mg

disturbed sleep 5/10

frequent urination through night 7/10

nausea 5/10

nerve pain 5/10

chills 3/1-

 3rd Feb 19

Awoke 11am due to disstubed sleep

nausea 5/10 (stayed constant throughout day)

nerve pain 5/10 (as above)

dizzy 2/10

anxiety 7/10

memory troubles/coordination 3/10 (constant)

anhedonia 6/10 (constant)

Depression 6/10 (constant)

lunch at 12

Walk  at 2pm anxiety dropped to 4/10

back around ppl 4pm increase in anxiety to 7/10

DR 3/10 started at 5pm

magnesium bath/meditation at 6pm

Depression anhedonia 5/10

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If the latter, look on the label, has it expired?

anxiety 4/10

tbc later

will eat at 7pm

Meds 1.15ml of citalopram.

 

@Altostrata I did attempt to updose after discussing it with a few friends, I thought I could stabilise more ( due to feeling I was stuck) but I instead had a reaction, new symptoms of nausea and some DR and higher anxiety. Next night I immediately went down to previous dosage but I was out of old liquid so started new brand. ( see below)

 

I take my 0.15ml of citalopram liquid every night at 10pm as at least I can sleep through how ill it makes me feel ( I get chills)

 

 I currently have a 1ml syringe, but I am going to try and purchase a 0.5ml. I use prescription liquid, this new brand is Lundbeck (the previous brand is back in London and I will go back tomorrow). The liquid is 40mg/ml

 

Oh my goodness, I just checked, it says expiry is 01/2019 . What should I do? I don't have any other liquid with me tonight or tablets as I am visiting family. Tomorrow I go back and I know that they will take 2 days to process my prescription but I will call doctors to say it's an emergency.  I will have to just take the old liquid tonight?

 

Is there a case for in the future switching to the pills and weighing them i.e. 6mg? As the liquid gives me such chills and I know that I used to do ok on tablets. I guess it has been a long time since I was on the tablets (July 18)

 

 

[India]

Is there a thread for specifically managing anger, rage, irritability? Tried a search but it comes up as a side topic among topics. Like in neuro emotions. 

[Shep]

2 hours ago, India said:

Is there a thread for specifically managing anger, rage, irritability? Tried a search but it comes up as a side topic among topics. Like in neuro emotions. 

 

India, I moved your last post from Bubble's thread to here in your own thread, since you're asking about your own symptom. 

 

Please see:

 

Managing Anger

 

Dealing with anger during SSRI withdrawal

[withhopeinmyheart]

Hi India, 

 

I sometimes have that neuro-anger, too. 

And if I can't distract myself from it, I sometimes allow it. Like hitting pillows. 

 

It sure is important to not completely flip and be able to catch yourself when doing things. 

 

But yeah, sometimes you have to let it out... 

[India]

On 1/28/2019 at 12:03 AM, Carmie said:

Hi India, 

 

Just wanted to pop by again and send hugs, I’m sorry you’re struggling so much🤗

Thank you Carmie. Appreciate this. How are you?

[India]

Had a terrible panic attack/episode this afternoon. Like I did last year when I reintroduced my citalopram after 3 months CT withdrawal. Horrendous. I was terrified. Recording this for myself as well as support. I'm in bed recovering - I took passiflora to calm me which worked. Having to keep my thoughts under control

[India]

18 hours ago, withhopeinmyheart said:

Hi India, 

 

I sometimes have that neuro-anger, too. 

And if I can't distract myself from it, I sometimes allow it. Like hitting pillows. 

 

It sure is important to not completely flip and be able to catch yourself when doing things. 

 

But yeah, sometimes you have to let it out... 

@withhopeinmyheart thank you for this post and advice It has now morphed into terror but I pray it's the dosage and brand  change. In bed now. Passiflora seems to have worked.

[India]

18 hours ago, Shep said:

 

India, I moved your last post from Bubble's thread to here in your own thread, since you're asking about your own symptom. 

 

Please see:

 

Managing Anger

 

Dealing with anger during SSRI withdrawal

Thank you