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Tootsieroll

Where are all the success stories? Does nobody ever heal?

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Christian

Oh geez I'm sorry about that. The Fog is extra thick tonight. I shouldn't be posting when it is!

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Alua

No its not you I read it back and didn't make it clear Christian...I have a habit of doing that! Hope you get some sleep. X

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Tootsieroll

In my community which is a small one (16,000 people) of just the people I know, I can tell you the following success stories.

A) 75 year old man been on Paxil twice for approximately 4 years in total following a suicide attempt. He said they never helped him and he went off slowly over a year. That was about 6 years ago and he is fine.

B) a close friend of mine been on them twice. Had to ct once as pregnant a she said most horrific experience of her life. She went on them again for 4 years and weaned off slowly. She said for months and months afterwards it felt like her head was lifting off her scalp. She is doing fine 7 years later.

C) a member on here who has not posted her success story, too busy enjoying life. She was on pristiq 2 years weaned off over about 4 months and after a year of symptoms said she was finally living again.

D) a friend of mine on ads first Lexapro and then mostly pristiq 100mg for 3 years. Ct off 100mg pristiq and was terrible for about six weeks still suffers slightly but is doing great 1 year later.

E) a lady from my gym on zoloft for 2 years had to wean off due to pregnancy. 6 months off horrific initial withdrawals and now doing well.

F) a close friend on zoloft 15 years weaned off over a month that. Been off them a year still suffers horrible depression always will, insomnia, initial dizziness very bad but she is doing well despite that said she will never go back on. Credits the gym for helping her through. She did this with 5 kids to look after. She was bad on the drugs I remember one day meeting her at the park and she told me she had written suicide letters to all the kids and then burned them.

 

I know of others too probably at least half a dozen but they weaned off slowly and did not really suffer any withdrawal.

 

I come on these sites and I also look for success stories as a source of inspiration and hope during an awful time. The reality in my opinion is there are success stories all around us but many of them do not write on this forum. Those on this forum do not always come back either to write their success stories.

 

I tell everybody in my path about the horror of these drugs, and am astounded by how many people I have spoken to whom have had a negative experience with ads. Gosh even the shrink who writes my compounding scripts had an experience with them herself. Took 3 pills in two weeks became violently ill and had two car crashes!

Wow thank you for taking the time to write all this.  So comforting to see that there is an end to this darkness.  Though I do see a correlation even among your short list, it seems the ones that were on for a very short period healed much quicker than say someone who has been on for 15 years.  If that's not proof enough of the amount of damage done than I'm not sure what is!!  Nonetheless, healing does happen regardless of duration drug was taken, that is the thought I hold on to.

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btdt

I think it is highly individual and  depends on a number of factors. Genetics, degree and type of damage which of course varies from person to person, damage by other drugs, age etc. There are people who recover in a couple of months and some that haven't recovered in fifteen years.  

Can you list any who have not improved in 15 years as I think that as longer than any time line I have ever seen... it would make a difference to me and maybe some of my future choices.

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btdt

Just checking to see the list of those not healed in 15 years... nobody?

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servadei

http://www.mindfreedom.org/personal-stories

"The MindFreedom Personal Story Project collects histories from psychiatric survivors and mental health consumers about their experiences of survival, resistance, recovery and self-determination in the mental health system. Many participants in the project have struggled through difficult emotional times, and all have suffered through psychiatric labeling and an often abusive and patronizing mental health system, yet they survived, and even thrive."

 

Don't know if anybody posted this already but here you go people.

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btdt

And here I sit at 8 years 7 months and 20 days off.... not sure if I should do battle here or just not bother cause nobody wants to hear it anyway.... 

 

I will just say we are out here if you choose to acknowledge us or not we exist

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servadei

btdt, what symptoms do you have?

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btdt

btdt, what symptoms do you have?

read my thread the link is at the end of all my posts 

happy reading

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alex

btdt,you sound bitter and angry.Not very good for this process...

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btdt

It seems you are very much recovered... I am not sure what is going on with me but I feel very much not recovered just now it could be I have a brain tumour ... that is what we say isn't it but whatever it is sure feel like good old wd.  I suggest 8 years of this coming and going is different than 3 or 5 even... at 5 I had a timeline of 7 I was hoping for to be completely healed.  If I sound bitter or angry... maybe I am.  I can't discern exactly how I feel other than fed up and confused.  If your comment was meant to be helpful to in some way inspired me to be not bitter or angry ( was it a reminder that my attitude is keeping me sick to stop having that attitude?)  I am a bit better today and I don't think my attitude had anything to do with it... I have many times pulled myself and others up ... and laid down the battle fatigues in order to reach a more healing place... it has not held... why...I do not know.  

 

Suggesting to me at this point that I am not doing enough to help myself when I know I am doing the very best I can hurts.  

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btdt

I thought about bitter...and angry some more after I made the last post I thought of all the posts I have read in 8 years from people who were so angry at how wd had affected their lives and their families how anger is a part of wd of all the threads talking about anger and rage even in wd... about neuro emotions... there are a lot of anger angles if you put the two words together it is an almost endless array of withdrawal site posts chapters in books written on the subject... almost endless. 

 

Anger is part of this beast no matter how you look at it I would doubt anybody gets thru this process without having to face anger in its many forms.  There are times when we are fragile anger can be an enemy or even dangerous but there will come a time when anger has been mostly wrestled to its knees a different type of anger is found sitting like a solid stone born of experience and of knowledge each of us come to know our own truth and it becomes light to the path forward. That is how it seems to me at some point in time anger shifts it can become an empowering force it can just sit solid waiting to be tapped it is not always negative to know anger sometimes it is a signpost or a light. 

 

Anger can be a good thing a very good thing.

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Christian

BTDT,

I'm sorry you are struggling for so long. In regards to your symptoms, many of us come to the site on our phones so can't see signatures. Do you mind me asking what are the symptoms that you think are holding you back. I'm 8 months into my adverse reaction. 14 months since I was last stable on lexapro. I have to say the cognitive impairment and severe waves of boat like feelings keep me from being functional.

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compsports

btdt,you sound bitter and angry.Not very good for this process...

Alex,

 

With all due respect, it is our suppressing "unacceptable" emotions like bitterness and anger that caused most of us to be placed on these meds.   As a result, I fail to understand why you have a problem with them and telling someone to stop feeling a certain way comes across as very unsupportive even though I am sure that wasn't your intention.

 

Also, keep in mind that when someone posts what may seem like a post that is too negative to you, they may not be telling the whole story of what they have tried in their recovery.   They may have tried a "million" things to move forward in a positive direction only to feel like everything blew up in their face. Anyone would feel discouraged in that situation.

 

And even if they have tried zilch, they still deserve to be supported in a positive manner of encouragement that is accepting of all emotions whether they be positive or negative.

 

CS

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Hibari

I thought about bitter...and angry some more after I made the last post I thought of all the posts I have read in 8 years from people who were so angry at how wd had affected their lives and their families how anger is a part of wd of all the threads talking about anger and rage even in wd... about neuro emotions... there are a lot of anger angles if you put the two words together it is an almost endless array of withdrawal site posts chapters in books written on the subject... almost endless. 

 

Anger is part of this beast no matter how you look at it I would doubt anybody gets thru this process without having to face anger in its many forms.  There are times when we are fragile anger can be an enemy or even dangerous but there will come a time when anger has been mostly wrestled to its knees a different type of anger is found sitting like a solid stone born of experience and of knowledge each of us come to know our own truth and it becomes light to the path forward. That is how it seems to me at some point in time anger shifts it can become an empowering force it can just sit solid waiting to be tapped it is not always negative to know anger sometimes it is a signpost or a light. 

 

Anger can be a good thing a very good thing.

Anger can be a Very good thing.  It has energy and the power to move us forward even when we are sitting still.

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stan

hello btdt

 

i want to say hello, your box message seem not function for me, maybe i made wrong, i am not specialist 

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alex

 

btdt,you sound bitter and angry.Not very good for this process...

Alex,

 

With all due respect, it is our suppressing "unacceptable" emotions like bitterness and anger that caused most of us to be placed on these meds.   As a result, I fail to understand why you have a problem with them and telling someone to stop feeling a certain way comes across as very unsupportive even though I am sure that wasn't your intention.

 

Also, keep in mind that when someone posts what may seem like a post that is too negative to you, they may not be telling the whole story of what they have tried in their recovery.   They may have tried a "million" things to move forward in a positive direction only to feel like everything blew up in their face. Anyone would feel discouraged in that situation.

 

And even if they have tried zilch, they still deserve to be supported in a positive manner of encouragement that is accepting of all emotions whether they be positive or negative.

 

CS

 

I am sorry I meant no harm.

I feel bitter and angry sometimes also.

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btdt

BTDT,

I'm sorry you are struggling for so long. In regards to your symptoms, many of us come to the site on our phones so can't see signatures. Do you mind me asking what are the symptoms that you think are holding you back. I'm 8 months into my adverse reaction. 14 months since I was last stable on lexapro. I have to say the cognitive impairment and severe waves of boat like feelings keep me from being functional.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

happy reading I have been on this site only since 2011  before that I was in wd since 2008 close to 9 years now many other support sites that are now closed in the early years that you can't read

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btdt

 

btdt,you sound bitter and angry.Not very good for this process...

Alex,

 

With all due respect, it is our suppressing "unacceptable" emotions like bitterness and anger that caused most of us to be placed on these meds.   As a result, I fail to understand why you have a problem with them and telling someone to stop feeling a certain way comes across as very unsupportive even though I am sure that wasn't your intention.

 

Also, keep in mind that when someone posts what may seem like a post that is too negative to you, they may not be telling the whole story of what they have tried in their recovery.   They may have tried a "million" things to move forward in a positive direction only to feel like everything blew up in their face. Anyone would feel discouraged in that situation.

 

And even if they have tried zilch, they still deserve to be supported in a positive manner of encouragement that is accepting of all emotions whether they be positive or negative.

 

CS

 

Thanks Comsports while all things are different in wd... we do try to make allowances for people who are in a bad mood and need to write something a bit not nice or what seems to others to be not nice it is one of the complications of wd sites... fear is a big part of that I am sure.  Early on I may have made the same type post to a person who was almost 9 years out and still not done who knows. Thanks non the less the support is heartfelt as in I felt it in my heart :)

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btdt

that is ok 

 

 

 

btdt,you sound bitter and angry.Not very good for this process...

Alex,

 

With all due respect, it is our suppressing "unacceptable" emotions like bitterness and anger that caused most of us to be placed on these meds.   As a result, I fail to understand why you have a problem with them and telling someone to stop feeling a certain way comes across as very unsupportive even though I am sure that wasn't your intention.

 

Also, keep in mind that when someone posts what may seem like a post that is too negative to you, they may not be telling the whole story of what they have tried in their recovery.   They may have tried a "million" things to move forward in a positive direction only to feel like everything blew up in their face. Anyone would feel discouraged in that situation.

 

And even if they have tried zilch, they still deserve to be supported in a positive manner of encouragement that is accepting of all emotions whether they be positive or negative.

 

CS

 

I am sorry I meant no harm.

I feel bitter and angry sometimes also.

 

that is ok see the post above I have had my days too...many of them this is a difficult process to understand it takes time and living it and struggle and a few bouts of overcoming or just existing thru severe crap you think your not going to survive to give you some anger of the rock kind.... 

anger is normal in this is my take on it

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btdt

hello btdt

 

i want to say hello, your box message seem not function for me, maybe i made wrong, i am not specialist 

my email if full I deleted one today to make some room I am not up to making decisions on what to keep and what to delete just now should be room for one at least.... 

Hi Stan I don't think your wrong I now have a movement disorder not happy about it working on finding the cause... 

peace to you

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Chicago77

I promise all of you when I'm recovered, I will come back and write about it. It's the least I can do, especially when so many people on this site have helped me thus far in my journey. It's been truly hell and I think we all want to read a positive story when you are in the midst of all of this. It's so hard for the people around you to understand what you are going through because they are not living it. Honestly, if I wasn't going through this, then I wouldn't probably understand either. It's here that we come looking for answers, hope, support. It's the success stories that give us that hope when you REALLY need it. If anyone is reading this post in 2018 or 2019(assuming I'm recovered by then), I PROMISE you will see a success story from me on here. I hope that anyone else that is reading this does the same when they are recovered. It's important to give back and share your success with others who are still suffering. Then after that, go live your life and enjoy every moment of it SSRI free!!! You deserve it!   :D

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Madeleine

I keep wondering about this too.... i.e. why don't more people come back and post their success story....

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Rockingchaircat

I added my success story today.

 

Yes it takes awhile.  But it's worth it.

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Bluebird2009

as for my own proof, i am severely damaged since 7 years off any med and know a few french damaged since 10 years now,

i know also personally a few french in similar frame time damaged by benzodiazepines and they are the same

a few years ago i believed that the brain has a big recovery capability with neuroplasticity, but with years, i slowly begin to doubt

 

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

but i see some young who took short time and have fully recovered, why not neuroplasticity for all people, is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

If you are still so ill and with chronic stress why don't you go back on medication? Unless you have sensitivity to meds? I know that I wld be back in now if I cld as I can't tolerate this at all but unfortunately I don't have a choice as my body won't tolerate anything.

Edited by ChessieCat
combined quote and post which were separate posts

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Bluebird2009

Just checking to see the list of those not healed in 15 years... nobody?

Glad you put this up as people need encouragement, not to be told no recovery after 15years. Thanks

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januaryeve

from Shep's post:

 

"So even though I didn't see one single ounce of improvement with dp/dr, . . . "

 

I don't know what dp/dr is. Can someone inform me?

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januaryeve

Shep said,

 

"I also agree that the brain has a big recovery capability. There's a term called "neuroplasticity" that describes how the brain can heal from many forms of trauma and damage. 

 

Dr. Norman Doidge has been writing and lecturing about it. This is an interesting video about it:" 

 

 

 

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. For instance, there was some specificity about how one patient recovered from a paralyzing stroke and learned to walk again.

 

In each of Doidge's examples, there are specific things the person or researcher does to induce neuroplastic changes in the brain to correct an injury or disability. None of what I read applies to drug withdrawal, or at least the symptoms I have.

 

I have read in another book that aerobic exercise routines of certain intensities can induce the brain to create new neurons. But how to get the right neurons in the right part of the brain to correct for drug withdrawal? So I was disappointed in the book regarding drug withdrawal.

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

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Shep

 

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. For instance, there was some specificity about how one patient recovered from a paralyzing stroke and learned to walk again.

 

In each of Doidge's examples, there are specific things the person or researcher does to induce neuroplastic changes in the brain to correct an injury or disability. None of what I read applies to drug withdrawal, or at least the symptoms I have.

 

I have read in another book that aerobic exercise routines of certain intensities can induce the brain to create new neurons. But how to get the right neurons in the right part of the brain to correct for drug withdrawal? So I was disappointed in the book regarding drug withdrawal.

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

 

This is a very valid comment, januaryeve. Unfortunately, because the medical establishment has swept withdrawal under the rug and has refused to deal with it or even acknowledge it, we don't have the type of research you are looking for. 

 

There are a couple of videos from Toxic Antidepressants that do bring in the science of neuroplasticity and place it in the context of psychiatric drug withdrawal. Because withdrawal hits about every system in the human body and because it comes with a non-linear healing pattern (i.e. windows and waves), it's a bit like working with a Rubix Cube, as the video shows: 

 

Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity - VIDEO

 

And in this video, specific tips are given, again within the context of psychiatric drug withdrawal: 

 

Healing from antidepressants. How to speed up the recovery process  - VIDEO

 

So even though there isn't a lot out there in the scientific and medical community about neuroplasticity and synthetic drug withdrawal, there's a lot out there on exercise (even walking can help), meditation, using puzzles and games to work the brain for memory power, the use of certain supplements such as Omega 3 (if supplements are problematic, eating foods high in this nutrient such as fish can help), etc. 

 

As they say in the world of neuroplasticity, "Neurons that fire together wire together". Bring these and other non-drug coping skills in gradually as you are able and over time, the benefits add up as the mind and body heal.

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AliG

I agree, there isn't much information around from the scientific and medical community about neuroplasticity and synthetic drug withdrawal.

 

Exercise is known to create new neurons and therefore helps the brain in a multifaceted way for many conditions, which hopefully includes psych drug withdrawal and healing. This is perhaps a likely conclusion given the available information and it remains to be seen. We can only hope.

 

I believe positivity trumps all; it serves us well to live in that illuminating light if possible knowing that healing is happening.

 

We can implement tools such as exercise, meditation etc that have been proven to help and continue to look for additional ideas. That includes learning from the vast range of others' experiences contained on this forum.

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compsports

Unfortunately choosing hope and healing has not solved my problems created by being on psych meds for years.  I feel my sleep cycle is greatly destroyed.  My last remaining hope is that a sleep specialist I am seeing out of my area in the States who was recommended by an Australian sleep doctor can give me some suggestions.   

 

I think realism is what trumps all instead of positivity or negativity.  Ideally, we could find a doctor who believes us about the damage and guide us to the best remedial remedies whether that that be nutrition, supplements, or brain exercises.   Due to already being cognitively impaired, it is very hard for me to navigate this issue on my own.

 

Finally, if people are looking for more support for their long term issues than you feel this site can provide such as long-term damage,  please join this facebook group started by an SA member Christian Forbear,https://www.facebook.com/groups/1196474663803635/.    Very supportive group of people.

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JanCarol

Big topic!

Zandro:  

is there any general belief or scientific proof that once you start taking antidepressants you actually damage the brain and you can't recover form it once you stop?

 

One dose changes the brain

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(14)01037-9?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982214010379%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

 

But a change is not damage.  Your body wants homeostasis, and will correct.  It will also correct when the drug is removed.  But it does take time.

 

I do think that the endocrine system can be shifted in withdrawal, and that's a deep challenge to re-balance.  But it can be addressed.  

 

Icequeen says:

I think it is highly individual and  depends on a number of factors. Genetics, degree and type of damage which of course varies from person to person, damage by other drugs, age etc. There are people who recover in a couple of months and some that haven't recovered in fifteen years.  

 

I do not believe in a genetic model of mental and emotional distress.  There may be (minor) genetic contributing factors, like which liver enzymes react to which drugs.

 

The greater factor for healing is the relationship developed towards healing.  Can you be an objective observer?  Curious about your symptoms?  Can you embrace the symptoms - and let them go at the same time?

 

Are you invested in being a patient?  Invested in "chronic damage" like Alto says?   Of having someone else "fix this" for you?  Are you prepared to work for every step of healing?  Have you done everything you possibly can?

 

GiaK of Beyond Meds proclaims:   Everything Matters.  I might even take it a step further.  You need everything.  Nutrition, meditation, exercise, retraining your brain, a relationship with your emotions, relationship with others, spritual support.  Everything you can possibly think of is required for healing to take place.

 

Some people get lucky and get there without addressing EVERYTHING, but the ones who do it well, address many many factors in order to heal.

 

Stan:

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

 

Neuroplasticity doesn't come by waiting.  You have to work at it.  Hubby worked incredibly hard to rebuild his brain so that he could work, and speak and write again after his stroke.  I am still working to manage my moods, my fatigue, I'm trying to divest in my "Jan as a Woman In Pain" view of myself.  

 

What is "normal?"  Are you sure that "normal" is what you want?  Normal is to be a drone who can work like a dog for the master without complaining.  Is that what you seek?  It's achievable, if that is what you want.  Were you ever "normal" to begin with?  (if so, then why the drugs?)

 

I was not normal.  Finally, I submitted to the drugging - and I was more normal.  I could work.  I was emotionally stable.  But - it flattened me into anhedonia and stripped me of the will to live, until eventually I didn't care about normal anymore.  I'm off drugs now.  I am not normal.  I'm glad of it.

 

Stan, again:

is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

Nope.  But it's not a passive thing.  If you have a stroke and lose your speech, like my hubby did - all the wishing in the world will not bring it back.  He had to spend hours, every day, in rehab taking tests and pursuing tasks that were hard - and often impossible - for him.  After 6 weeks of in patient rehab, and another 3 weeks of outpatient rehab, he was able to write sentences and do math problems again, and speak.  Yes, he still drops words and calls them by the wrong thing - no - he's not "perfect," and he's not where he was before the stroke.  

 

But there may be some factors which improve neuroplasticity.  Curiosity would be a huge one.  Nutrition would be another (I am inclined to believe that there is little neuroplasticity without fish oil, for example, and magnesium is an essential supplement for those like us, who have changed our brain).  Education might be another factor - I know it factors into Alzheimer's studies.  There was one study done with Nuns - a perfect population, because they could study their entire lives.  The ones who were poor at expressing themselves verbally and in writing when they were young - were the ones who succumbed to dementia much earlier, and much faster - than the ones who could express their thoughts and feelings more clearly.  So how you express yourself is important, too.

 

Then there's the postive thinking aspect of healing.  If you focus on symptoms, you will see only the symptoms.  There is a negative bias in the brain - it is a survival tool for when we were living feral.  Once burned, twice shy - we remember negative things 5x more than positive.  So, in order to develop positive thinking, you need to be positive at least 5x more than you are negative.  Eventually, you can develop the skill to think positive thoughts embedded with the negative.  Like:  "I am having symptoms now, but I got better before, so I will again."  This from a TED talk by Dr. Rick Hansen:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpuDyGgIeh0

 

The other aspect of positive thinking is seeking out positive things to fill your brain and experience with, and reinforcing them when they do happen.  On a spiritual level, this is called "Gratitude."  The more you notice and give thanks for the good things - the more you will grow in the positive aspects of your life.  I'm telling you - if it weren't for the little things - that big butterfly outside my window, the singing of the birds, the feeling of the wind in my face, or the working of my muscles when I exercise - THANK YOU - these little things string together like pearls and you build a bank of goodness that carries you through the stress.  Thank you.  Gratitude.  It works, and is the main thing that gives me hope when I'm struggling.

 

Herewego writes:

I'm taking zyprexa, which is an anti-psychotic. I've read here from a member that they cause brain damage - shrinking part of the brain & are considered a chemical lobotomy. I hope that is not true. I certainly have had memory problems while taking this drug and I used to be more clear in the way I expressed myself. I was more articulate before and less scattered. I don't know if this will go away after I am done with this medicine or not.

 

Yes, you can see that on brain scan.  But here's the thing - you can mitigate the damage with nutrition, and as the drug goes away, the brain heals.

 

I know people who have come off neuroleptics (also called "anti-psychotic," except they are not really anti-anything, and "psychosis" is not a disease) who have gradually come out of the fog, and are now able to read books, create art and music, work, and contribute to society.

 

I know some people still on them who are able to do so.

 

I think that the main factor that people are not looking at in here - is time.  If your symptoms are unrelenting after 5 years, then I'll consider it a tardive condition.  But most people are much better within 5 years of their last drug, and most people are improved after coming down 50% of their tapers.

 

If you have a tardive condition (long term, possibly drug induced), then consider these factors:

1.  Situation - situation is usually what fed us to the drugs to begin with.  This can be trauma, living conditions, and they feed a sense of hopelessness which makes it hard to recover.

2.  Chemical Issues - withdrawal.  There's not much you can do for this except stay stable and hopeful, and wait.

3.  Chemical issues - nutrition.  Again, sometimes this has driven people to the drugs to begin with - but after you've been on the drugs, nutrition is supremely important to heal.  Fish oil, magnesium are the prime supplements to consider.  Fresh veggies, sunlight, good fats, protein - all are vital for brain health.

 

If you have looked at everything in 1-3, and Everything Matters (see above) then it might be a tardive condition.  But in my experience, there is always something else you can do, can try, and even if you only get incrementally better - 1-2% - you are still better.  Again, like pearls on a string - those 1-2%'s can add up into "recovery," and can even look "normal," if you want it to.

 

There will be people who fit into this tardive category, like bdtd and compsports - but this is the minority.  Most of the people I know who have walked away would never go back (and I'll bet bdtd and compsports feel that way, too).  

 

JanuaryEve writes:

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. 

 

There are hundreds of techniques in our Symptoms and Self Care section here at SA.  There is a wealth of information at Beyond Meds http://www.beyondmeds.com.

 

Unfortunately, it's a self-hack.  What works for me, may not work for you - but work you must, if you want to heal.  You must find what works for you.  This brain, this body, didn't really come with an owner's manual, and there is certainly no manual for "what to do when you've been experimented on by Big Pharma" - but there are many of us who have found things that help:

 

nutrition

Mood management

attitude adjustment

breathing

yoga

exercise

social support

laughter

learning

 

I am late for dinner - so - I must go - I'll look at page 2 later. 

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Bluebird2009

Hi my first post, phil here from n.ireland. I was put on SSRIs when I was 17 started on citalipram then onto Prozac and finally sertraline, when I found out about the damage they can cause I tapered myself off them, I'm clean now about 8 months and I am still a mess, my stress tolerance is very low and I'm either depressed or on level ground, I never feel happy or excited about anything I've tried green tea chamomile 5htp valerian etc. I have 3 young kids and am afraid of having an impact on there life, I'm hoping I haven't done permanent damage but atm it's not looking good

So glad to hear from someone from Northern Ireland. I'm 10months off Prozac and still have numerous problems. How are you doing now?

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stan

Unfortunately choosing hope and healing has not solved my problems created by being on psych meds for years.  I feel my sleep cycle is greatly destroyed.  My last remaining hope is that a sleep specialist I am seeing out of my area in the States who was recommended by an Australian sleep doctor can give me some suggestions.   

 

I think realism is what trumps all instead of positivity or negativity.  Ideally, we could find a doctor who believes us about the damage and guide us to the best remedial remedies whether that that be nutrition, supplements, or brain exercises.   Due to already being cognitively impaired, it is very hard for me to navigate this issue on my own.

 

Finally, if people are looking for more support for their long term issues than you feel this site can provide such as long-term damage,  please join this facebook group started by an SA member Christian Forbear,https://www.facebook.com/groups/1196474663803635/.    Very supportive group of people.

 

 

Big topic!

Zandro:  

is there any general belief or scientific proof that once you start taking antidepressants you actually damage the brain and you can't recover form it once you stop?

 

One dose changes the brain

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(14)01037-9?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982214010379%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

 

But a change is not damage.  Your body wants homeostasis, and will correct.  It will also correct when the drug is removed.  But it does take time.

 

I do think that the endocrine system can be shifted in withdrawal, and that's a deep challenge to re-balance.  But it can be addressed.  

 

Icequeen says:

I think it is highly individual and  depends on a number of factors. Genetics, degree and type of damage which of course varies from person to person, damage by other drugs, age etc. There are people who recover in a couple of months and some that haven't recovered in fifteen years.  

 

I do not believe in a genetic model of mental and emotional distress.  There may be (minor) genetic contributing factors, like which liver enzymes react to which drugs.

 

The greater factor for healing is the relationship developed towards healing.  Can you be an objective observer?  Curious about your symptoms?  Can you embrace the symptoms - and let them go at the same time?

 

Are you invested in being a patient?  Invested in "chronic damage" like Alto says?   Of having someone else "fix this" for you?  Are you prepared to work for every step of healing?  Have you done everything you possibly can?

 

GiaK of Beyond Meds proclaims:   Everything Matters.  I might even take it a step further.  You need everything.  Nutrition, meditation, exercise, retraining your brain, a relationship with your emotions, relationship with others, spritual support.  Everything you can possibly think of is required for healing to take place.

 

Some people get lucky and get there without addressing EVERYTHING, but the ones who do it well, address many many factors in order to heal.

 

Stan:

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

 

Neuroplasticity doesn't come by waiting.  You have to work at it.  Hubby worked incredibly hard to rebuild his brain so that he could work, and speak and write again after his stroke.  I am still working to manage my moods, my fatigue, I'm trying to divest in my "Jan as a Woman In Pain" view of myself.  

 

What is "normal?"  Are you sure that "normal" is what you want?  Normal is to be a drone who can work like a dog for the master without complaining.  Is that what you seek?  It's achievable, if that is what you want.  Were you ever "normal" to begin with?  (if so, then why the drugs?)

 

I was not normal.  Finally, I submitted to the drugging - and I was more normal.  I could work.  I was emotionally stable.  But - it flattened me into anhedonia and stripped me of the will to live, until eventually I didn't care about normal anymore.  I'm off drugs now.  I am not normal.  I'm glad of it.

 

Stan, again:

is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

Nope.  But it's not a passive thing.  If you have a stroke and lose your speech, like my hubby did - all the wishing in the world will not bring it back.  He had to spend hours, every day, in rehab taking tests and pursuing tasks that were hard - and often impossible - for him.  After 6 weeks of in patient rehab, and another 3 weeks of outpatient rehab, he was able to write sentences and do math problems again, and speak.  Yes, he still drops words and calls them by the wrong thing - no - he's not "perfect," and he's not where he was before the stroke.  

 

But there may be some factors which improve neuroplasticity.  Curiosity would be a huge one.  Nutrition would be another (I am inclined to believe that there is little neuroplasticity without fish oil, for example, and magnesium is an essential supplement for those like us, who have changed our brain).  Education might be another factor - I know it factors into Alzheimer's studies.  There was one study done with Nuns - a perfect population, because they could study their entire lives.  The ones who were poor at expressing themselves verbally and in writing when they were young - were the ones who succumbed to dementia much earlier, and much faster - than the ones who could express their thoughts and feelings more clearly.  So how you express yourself is important, too.

 

Then there's the postive thinking aspect of healing.  If you focus on symptoms, you will see only the symptoms.  There is a negative bias in the brain - it is a survival tool for when we were living feral.  Once burned, twice shy - we remember negative things 5x more than positive.  So, in order to develop positive thinking, you need to be positive at least 5x more than you are negative.  Eventually, you can develop the skill to think positive thoughts embedded with the negative.  Like:  "I am having symptoms now, but I got better before, so I will again."  This from a TED talk by Dr. Rick Hansen:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpuDyGgIeh0

 

The other aspect of positive thinking is seeking out positive things to fill your brain and experience with, and reinforcing them when they do happen.  On a spiritual level, this is called "Gratitude."  The more you notice and give thanks for the good things - the more you will grow in the positive aspects of your life.  I'm telling you - if it weren't for the little things - that big butterfly outside my window, the singing of the birds, the feeling of the wind in my face, or the working of my muscles when I exercise - THANK YOU - these little things string together like pearls and you build a bank of goodness that carries you through the stress.  Thank you.  Gratitude.  It works, and is the main thing that gives me hope when I'm struggling.

 

Herewego writes:

I'm taking zyprexa, which is an anti-psychotic. I've read here from a member that they cause brain damage - shrinking part of the brain & are considered a chemical lobotomy. I hope that is not true. I certainly have had memory problems while taking this drug and I used to be more clear in the way I expressed myself. I was more articulate before and less scattered. I don't know if this will go away after I am done with this medicine or not.

 

Yes, you can see that on brain scan.  But here's the thing - you can mitigate the damage with nutrition, and as the drug goes away, the brain heals.

 

I know people who have come off neuroleptics (also called "anti-psychotic," except they are not really anti-anything, and "psychosis" is not a disease) who have gradually come out of the fog, and are now able to read books, create art and music, work, and contribute to society.

 

I know some people still on them who are able to do so.

 

I think that the main factor that people are not looking at in here - is time.  If your symptoms are unrelenting after 5 years, then I'll consider it a tardive condition.  But most people are much better within 5 years of their last drug, and most people are improved after coming down 50% of their tapers.

 

If you have a tardive condition (long term, possibly drug induced), then consider these factors:

1.  Situation - situation is usually what fed us to the drugs to begin with.  This can be trauma, living conditions, and they feed a sense of hopelessness which makes it hard to recover.

2.  Chemical Issues - withdrawal.  There's not much you can do for this except stay stable and hopeful, and wait.

3.  Chemical issues - nutrition.  Again, sometimes this has driven people to the drugs to begin with - but after you've been on the drugs, nutrition is supremely important to heal.  Fish oil, magnesium are the prime supplements to consider.  Fresh veggies, sunlight, good fats, protein - all are vital for brain health.

 

If you have looked at everything in 1-3, and Everything Matters (see above) then it might be a tardive condition.  But in my experience, there is always something else you can do, can try, and even if you only get incrementally better - 1-2% - you are still better.  Again, like pearls on a string - those 1-2%'s can add up into "recovery," and can even look "normal," if you want it to.

 

There will be people who fit into this tardive category, like bdtd and compsports - but this is the minority.  Most of the people I know who have walked away would never go back (and I'll bet bdtd and compsports feel that way, too).  

 

JanuaryEve writes:

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. 

 

There are hundreds of techniques in our Symptoms and Self Care section here at SA.  There is a wealth of information at Beyond Meds http://www.beyondmeds.com.

 

Unfortunately, it's a self-hack.  What works for me, may not work for you - but work you must, if you want to heal.  You must find what works for you.  This brain, this body, didn't really come with an owner's manual, and there is certainly no manual for "what to do when you've been experimented on by Big Pharma" - but there are many of us who have found things that help:

 

nutrition

Mood management

attitude adjustment

breathing

yoga

exercise

social support

laughter

learning

 

I am late for dinner - so - I must go - I'll look at page 2 later. 

hi Compsport and Jancarol, and all others

 

my sleep is destroyed now since 8 years, i have nightmares constantly, 3 to 4 or 5 hours, and can only start  sleep in the morning at 6 am,

 

i am good eating, and tried many things to sleep at night, no result, i am even worse, no sleeping

 

i suffer since off meds from chronic fatigue syndrome and many things in my signature

 

i read several testimonies in paxilprogress where people healed and said they do nothing for, they were as they have taken a ticket and wait their time to be healed, and they write their success story

 

why do i have to do special exercises and these people no ?

 

in an other hand, i cannot exercise, even walk is a challenge everyday

 

because if there exist something to do to heal my sleep and my CFS etc, so Compsport and i have lost many time waiting, 8 for me

 

it is not an exercise for stroke who will heal me i think, 

 

i can only notice that for some neuroplasticity works fast and fine and they have do nada for it, and for a minority, it works, i hope, but so slow, so slow

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stan

 

as for my own proof, i am severely damaged since 7 years off any med and know a few french damaged since 10 years now,

i know also personally a few french in similar frame time damaged by benzodiazepines and they are the same

a few years ago i believed that the brain has a big recovery capability with neuroplasticity, but with years, i slowly begin to doubt

 

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

but i see some young who took short time and have fully recovered, why not neuroplasticity for all people, is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

If you are still so ill and with chronic stress why don't you go back on medication? Unless you have sensitivity to meds? I know that I wld be back in now if I cld as I can't tolerate this at all but unfortunately I don't have a choice as my body won't tolerate anything.

 

because antidepressants do not function as you think, re-instating can make me 100 X worse than i am today

and re-instating can work to help taper, but a few years after i never heard an antidepressant healing someone

 

or all people would quick take a pill !

 

an antidepressant masks symptomes, he never healed something, same as you tell me to take an ecstasy to heal, it will only make me temporary happy crazy

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