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Where are all the success stories? Does nobody ever heal?

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januaryeve

I was in hell, felt suicidal, braindead and totalle messed up, but the light got through the cracks eventually. Im now off lexapro and working 100%. 

 

People do get better over time with the right tapering schedule. 

 

Wow, that is really exciting! I especially like the "100%" bit. :)

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Bluebird2009

as for my own proof, i am severely damaged since 7 years off any med and know a few french damaged since 10 years now,

i know also personally a few french in similar frame time damaged by benzodiazepines and they are the same

a few years ago i believed that the brain has a big recovery capability with neuroplasticity, but with years, i slowly begin to doubt

 

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

but i see some young who took short time and have fully recovered, why not neuroplasticity for all people, is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

If you are still so ill and with chronic stress why don't you go back on medication? Unless you have sensitivity to meds? I know that I wld be back in now if I cld as I can't tolerate this at all but unfortunately I don't have a choice as my body won't tolerate anything.

Edited by ChessieCat
combined quote and post which were separate posts

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Bluebird2009

Just checking to see the list of those not healed in 15 years... nobody?

Glad you put this up as people need encouragement, not to be told no recovery after 15years. Thanks

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januaryeve

from Shep's post:

 

"So even though I didn't see one single ounce of improvement with dp/dr, . . . "

 

I don't know what dp/dr is. Can someone inform me?

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januaryeve

Shep said,

 

"I also agree that the brain has a big recovery capability. There's a term called "neuroplasticity" that describes how the brain can heal from many forms of trauma and damage. 

 

Dr. Norman Doidge has been writing and lecturing about it. This is an interesting video about it:" 

 

 

 

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. For instance, there was some specificity about how one patient recovered from a paralyzing stroke and learned to walk again.

 

In each of Doidge's examples, there are specific things the person or researcher does to induce neuroplastic changes in the brain to correct an injury or disability. None of what I read applies to drug withdrawal, or at least the symptoms I have.

 

I have read in another book that aerobic exercise routines of certain intensities can induce the brain to create new neurons. But how to get the right neurons in the right part of the brain to correct for drug withdrawal? So I was disappointed in the book regarding drug withdrawal.

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

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Shep

 

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. For instance, there was some specificity about how one patient recovered from a paralyzing stroke and learned to walk again.

 

In each of Doidge's examples, there are specific things the person or researcher does to induce neuroplastic changes in the brain to correct an injury or disability. None of what I read applies to drug withdrawal, or at least the symptoms I have.

 

I have read in another book that aerobic exercise routines of certain intensities can induce the brain to create new neurons. But how to get the right neurons in the right part of the brain to correct for drug withdrawal? So I was disappointed in the book regarding drug withdrawal.

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

 

This is a very valid comment, januaryeve. Unfortunately, because the medical establishment has swept withdrawal under the rug and has refused to deal with it or even acknowledge it, we don't have the type of research you are looking for. 

 

There are a couple of videos from Toxic Antidepressants that do bring in the science of neuroplasticity and place it in the context of psychiatric drug withdrawal. Because withdrawal hits about every system in the human body and because it comes with a non-linear healing pattern (i.e. windows and waves), it's a bit like working with a Rubix Cube, as the video shows: 

 

Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity - VIDEO

 

And in this video, specific tips are given, again within the context of psychiatric drug withdrawal: 

 

Healing from antidepressants. How to speed up the recovery process  - VIDEO

 

So even though there isn't a lot out there in the scientific and medical community about neuroplasticity and synthetic drug withdrawal, there's a lot out there on exercise (even walking can help), meditation, using puzzles and games to work the brain for memory power, the use of certain supplements such as Omega 3 (if supplements are problematic, eating foods high in this nutrient such as fish can help), etc. 

 

As they say in the world of neuroplasticity, "Neurons that fire together wire together". Bring these and other non-drug coping skills in gradually as you are able and over time, the benefits add up as the mind and body heal.

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AliG

I agree, there isn't much information around from the scientific and medical community about neuroplasticity and synthetic drug withdrawal.

 

Exercise is known to create new neurons and therefore helps the brain in a multifaceted way for many conditions, which hopefully includes psych drug withdrawal and healing. This is perhaps a likely conclusion given the available information and it remains to be seen. We can only hope.

 

I believe positivity trumps all; it serves us well to live in that illuminating light if possible knowing that healing is happening.

 

We can implement tools such as exercise, meditation etc that have been proven to help and continue to look for additional ideas. That includes learning from the vast range of others' experiences contained on this forum.

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compsports

Unfortunately choosing hope and healing has not solved my problems created by being on psych meds for years.  I feel my sleep cycle is greatly destroyed.  My last remaining hope is that a sleep specialist I am seeing out of my area in the States who was recommended by an Australian sleep doctor can give me some suggestions.   

 

I think realism is what trumps all instead of positivity or negativity.  Ideally, we could find a doctor who believes us about the damage and guide us to the best remedial remedies whether that that be nutrition, supplements, or brain exercises.   Due to already being cognitively impaired, it is very hard for me to navigate this issue on my own.

 

Finally, if people are looking for more support for their long term issues than you feel this site can provide such as long-term damage,  please join this facebook group started by an SA member Christian Forbear,https://www.facebook.com/groups/1196474663803635/.    Very supportive group of people.

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JanCarol

Big topic!

Zandro:  

is there any general belief or scientific proof that once you start taking antidepressants you actually damage the brain and you can't recover form it once you stop?

 

One dose changes the brain

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(14)01037-9?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982214010379%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

 

But a change is not damage.  Your body wants homeostasis, and will correct.  It will also correct when the drug is removed.  But it does take time.

 

I do think that the endocrine system can be shifted in withdrawal, and that's a deep challenge to re-balance.  But it can be addressed.  

 

Icequeen says:

I think it is highly individual and  depends on a number of factors. Genetics, degree and type of damage which of course varies from person to person, damage by other drugs, age etc. There are people who recover in a couple of months and some that haven't recovered in fifteen years.  

 

I do not believe in a genetic model of mental and emotional distress.  There may be (minor) genetic contributing factors, like which liver enzymes react to which drugs.

 

The greater factor for healing is the relationship developed towards healing.  Can you be an objective observer?  Curious about your symptoms?  Can you embrace the symptoms - and let them go at the same time?

 

Are you invested in being a patient?  Invested in "chronic damage" like Alto says?   Of having someone else "fix this" for you?  Are you prepared to work for every step of healing?  Have you done everything you possibly can?

 

GiaK of Beyond Meds proclaims:   Everything Matters.  I might even take it a step further.  You need everything.  Nutrition, meditation, exercise, retraining your brain, a relationship with your emotions, relationship with others, spritual support.  Everything you can possibly think of is required for healing to take place.

 

Some people get lucky and get there without addressing EVERYTHING, but the ones who do it well, address many many factors in order to heal.

 

Stan:

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

 

Neuroplasticity doesn't come by waiting.  You have to work at it.  Hubby worked incredibly hard to rebuild his brain so that he could work, and speak and write again after his stroke.  I am still working to manage my moods, my fatigue, I'm trying to divest in my "Jan as a Woman In Pain" view of myself.  

 

What is "normal?"  Are you sure that "normal" is what you want?  Normal is to be a drone who can work like a dog for the master without complaining.  Is that what you seek?  It's achievable, if that is what you want.  Were you ever "normal" to begin with?  (if so, then why the drugs?)

 

I was not normal.  Finally, I submitted to the drugging - and I was more normal.  I could work.  I was emotionally stable.  But - it flattened me into anhedonia and stripped me of the will to live, until eventually I didn't care about normal anymore.  I'm off drugs now.  I am not normal.  I'm glad of it.

 

Stan, again:

is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

Nope.  But it's not a passive thing.  If you have a stroke and lose your speech, like my hubby did - all the wishing in the world will not bring it back.  He had to spend hours, every day, in rehab taking tests and pursuing tasks that were hard - and often impossible - for him.  After 6 weeks of in patient rehab, and another 3 weeks of outpatient rehab, he was able to write sentences and do math problems again, and speak.  Yes, he still drops words and calls them by the wrong thing - no - he's not "perfect," and he's not where he was before the stroke.  

 

But there may be some factors which improve neuroplasticity.  Curiosity would be a huge one.  Nutrition would be another (I am inclined to believe that there is little neuroplasticity without fish oil, for example, and magnesium is an essential supplement for those like us, who have changed our brain).  Education might be another factor - I know it factors into Alzheimer's studies.  There was one study done with Nuns - a perfect population, because they could study their entire lives.  The ones who were poor at expressing themselves verbally and in writing when they were young - were the ones who succumbed to dementia much earlier, and much faster - than the ones who could express their thoughts and feelings more clearly.  So how you express yourself is important, too.

 

Then there's the postive thinking aspect of healing.  If you focus on symptoms, you will see only the symptoms.  There is a negative bias in the brain - it is a survival tool for when we were living feral.  Once burned, twice shy - we remember negative things 5x more than positive.  So, in order to develop positive thinking, you need to be positive at least 5x more than you are negative.  Eventually, you can develop the skill to think positive thoughts embedded with the negative.  Like:  "I am having symptoms now, but I got better before, so I will again."  This from a TED talk by Dr. Rick Hansen:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpuDyGgIeh0

 

The other aspect of positive thinking is seeking out positive things to fill your brain and experience with, and reinforcing them when they do happen.  On a spiritual level, this is called "Gratitude."  The more you notice and give thanks for the good things - the more you will grow in the positive aspects of your life.  I'm telling you - if it weren't for the little things - that big butterfly outside my window, the singing of the birds, the feeling of the wind in my face, or the working of my muscles when I exercise - THANK YOU - these little things string together like pearls and you build a bank of goodness that carries you through the stress.  Thank you.  Gratitude.  It works, and is the main thing that gives me hope when I'm struggling.

 

Herewego writes:

I'm taking zyprexa, which is an anti-psychotic. I've read here from a member that they cause brain damage - shrinking part of the brain & are considered a chemical lobotomy. I hope that is not true. I certainly have had memory problems while taking this drug and I used to be more clear in the way I expressed myself. I was more articulate before and less scattered. I don't know if this will go away after I am done with this medicine or not.

 

Yes, you can see that on brain scan.  But here's the thing - you can mitigate the damage with nutrition, and as the drug goes away, the brain heals.

 

I know people who have come off neuroleptics (also called "anti-psychotic," except they are not really anti-anything, and "psychosis" is not a disease) who have gradually come out of the fog, and are now able to read books, create art and music, work, and contribute to society.

 

I know some people still on them who are able to do so.

 

I think that the main factor that people are not looking at in here - is time.  If your symptoms are unrelenting after 5 years, then I'll consider it a tardive condition.  But most people are much better within 5 years of their last drug, and most people are improved after coming down 50% of their tapers.

 

If you have a tardive condition (long term, possibly drug induced), then consider these factors:

1.  Situation - situation is usually what fed us to the drugs to begin with.  This can be trauma, living conditions, and they feed a sense of hopelessness which makes it hard to recover.

2.  Chemical Issues - withdrawal.  There's not much you can do for this except stay stable and hopeful, and wait.

3.  Chemical issues - nutrition.  Again, sometimes this has driven people to the drugs to begin with - but after you've been on the drugs, nutrition is supremely important to heal.  Fish oil, magnesium are the prime supplements to consider.  Fresh veggies, sunlight, good fats, protein - all are vital for brain health.

 

If you have looked at everything in 1-3, and Everything Matters (see above) then it might be a tardive condition.  But in my experience, there is always something else you can do, can try, and even if you only get incrementally better - 1-2% - you are still better.  Again, like pearls on a string - those 1-2%'s can add up into "recovery," and can even look "normal," if you want it to.

 

There will be people who fit into this tardive category, like bdtd and compsports - but this is the minority.  Most of the people I know who have walked away would never go back (and I'll bet bdtd and compsports feel that way, too).  

 

JanuaryEve writes:

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. 

 

There are hundreds of techniques in our Symptoms and Self Care section here at SA.  There is a wealth of information at Beyond Meds http://www.beyondmeds.com.

 

Unfortunately, it's a self-hack.  What works for me, may not work for you - but work you must, if you want to heal.  You must find what works for you.  This brain, this body, didn't really come with an owner's manual, and there is certainly no manual for "what to do when you've been experimented on by Big Pharma" - but there are many of us who have found things that help:

 

nutrition

Mood management

attitude adjustment

breathing

yoga

exercise

social support

laughter

learning

 

I am late for dinner - so - I must go - I'll look at page 2 later. 

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Bluebird2009

Hi my first post, phil here from n.ireland. I was put on SSRIs when I was 17 started on citalipram then onto Prozac and finally sertraline, when I found out about the damage they can cause I tapered myself off them, I'm clean now about 8 months and I am still a mess, my stress tolerance is very low and I'm either depressed or on level ground, I never feel happy or excited about anything I've tried green tea chamomile 5htp valerian etc. I have 3 young kids and am afraid of having an impact on there life, I'm hoping I haven't done permanent damage but atm it's not looking good

So glad to hear from someone from Northern Ireland. I'm 10months off Prozac and still have numerous problems. How are you doing now?

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stan

Unfortunately choosing hope and healing has not solved my problems created by being on psych meds for years.  I feel my sleep cycle is greatly destroyed.  My last remaining hope is that a sleep specialist I am seeing out of my area in the States who was recommended by an Australian sleep doctor can give me some suggestions.   

 

I think realism is what trumps all instead of positivity or negativity.  Ideally, we could find a doctor who believes us about the damage and guide us to the best remedial remedies whether that that be nutrition, supplements, or brain exercises.   Due to already being cognitively impaired, it is very hard for me to navigate this issue on my own.

 

Finally, if people are looking for more support for their long term issues than you feel this site can provide such as long-term damage,  please join this facebook group started by an SA member Christian Forbear,https://www.facebook.com/groups/1196474663803635/.    Very supportive group of people.

 

 

Big topic!

Zandro:  

is there any general belief or scientific proof that once you start taking antidepressants you actually damage the brain and you can't recover form it once you stop?

 

One dose changes the brain

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(14)01037-9?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982214010379%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

 

But a change is not damage.  Your body wants homeostasis, and will correct.  It will also correct when the drug is removed.  But it does take time.

 

I do think that the endocrine system can be shifted in withdrawal, and that's a deep challenge to re-balance.  But it can be addressed.  

 

Icequeen says:

I think it is highly individual and  depends on a number of factors. Genetics, degree and type of damage which of course varies from person to person, damage by other drugs, age etc. There are people who recover in a couple of months and some that haven't recovered in fifteen years.  

 

I do not believe in a genetic model of mental and emotional distress.  There may be (minor) genetic contributing factors, like which liver enzymes react to which drugs.

 

The greater factor for healing is the relationship developed towards healing.  Can you be an objective observer?  Curious about your symptoms?  Can you embrace the symptoms - and let them go at the same time?

 

Are you invested in being a patient?  Invested in "chronic damage" like Alto says?   Of having someone else "fix this" for you?  Are you prepared to work for every step of healing?  Have you done everything you possibly can?

 

GiaK of Beyond Meds proclaims:   Everything Matters.  I might even take it a step further.  You need everything.  Nutrition, meditation, exercise, retraining your brain, a relationship with your emotions, relationship with others, spritual support.  Everything you can possibly think of is required for healing to take place.

 

Some people get lucky and get there without addressing EVERYTHING, but the ones who do it well, address many many factors in order to heal.

 

Stan:

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

 

Neuroplasticity doesn't come by waiting.  You have to work at it.  Hubby worked incredibly hard to rebuild his brain so that he could work, and speak and write again after his stroke.  I am still working to manage my moods, my fatigue, I'm trying to divest in my "Jan as a Woman In Pain" view of myself.  

 

What is "normal?"  Are you sure that "normal" is what you want?  Normal is to be a drone who can work like a dog for the master without complaining.  Is that what you seek?  It's achievable, if that is what you want.  Were you ever "normal" to begin with?  (if so, then why the drugs?)

 

I was not normal.  Finally, I submitted to the drugging - and I was more normal.  I could work.  I was emotionally stable.  But - it flattened me into anhedonia and stripped me of the will to live, until eventually I didn't care about normal anymore.  I'm off drugs now.  I am not normal.  I'm glad of it.

 

Stan, again:

is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

Nope.  But it's not a passive thing.  If you have a stroke and lose your speech, like my hubby did - all the wishing in the world will not bring it back.  He had to spend hours, every day, in rehab taking tests and pursuing tasks that were hard - and often impossible - for him.  After 6 weeks of in patient rehab, and another 3 weeks of outpatient rehab, he was able to write sentences and do math problems again, and speak.  Yes, he still drops words and calls them by the wrong thing - no - he's not "perfect," and he's not where he was before the stroke.  

 

But there may be some factors which improve neuroplasticity.  Curiosity would be a huge one.  Nutrition would be another (I am inclined to believe that there is little neuroplasticity without fish oil, for example, and magnesium is an essential supplement for those like us, who have changed our brain).  Education might be another factor - I know it factors into Alzheimer's studies.  There was one study done with Nuns - a perfect population, because they could study their entire lives.  The ones who were poor at expressing themselves verbally and in writing when they were young - were the ones who succumbed to dementia much earlier, and much faster - than the ones who could express their thoughts and feelings more clearly.  So how you express yourself is important, too.

 

Then there's the postive thinking aspect of healing.  If you focus on symptoms, you will see only the symptoms.  There is a negative bias in the brain - it is a survival tool for when we were living feral.  Once burned, twice shy - we remember negative things 5x more than positive.  So, in order to develop positive thinking, you need to be positive at least 5x more than you are negative.  Eventually, you can develop the skill to think positive thoughts embedded with the negative.  Like:  "I am having symptoms now, but I got better before, so I will again."  This from a TED talk by Dr. Rick Hansen:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpuDyGgIeh0

 

The other aspect of positive thinking is seeking out positive things to fill your brain and experience with, and reinforcing them when they do happen.  On a spiritual level, this is called "Gratitude."  The more you notice and give thanks for the good things - the more you will grow in the positive aspects of your life.  I'm telling you - if it weren't for the little things - that big butterfly outside my window, the singing of the birds, the feeling of the wind in my face, or the working of my muscles when I exercise - THANK YOU - these little things string together like pearls and you build a bank of goodness that carries you through the stress.  Thank you.  Gratitude.  It works, and is the main thing that gives me hope when I'm struggling.

 

Herewego writes:

I'm taking zyprexa, which is an anti-psychotic. I've read here from a member that they cause brain damage - shrinking part of the brain & are considered a chemical lobotomy. I hope that is not true. I certainly have had memory problems while taking this drug and I used to be more clear in the way I expressed myself. I was more articulate before and less scattered. I don't know if this will go away after I am done with this medicine or not.

 

Yes, you can see that on brain scan.  But here's the thing - you can mitigate the damage with nutrition, and as the drug goes away, the brain heals.

 

I know people who have come off neuroleptics (also called "anti-psychotic," except they are not really anti-anything, and "psychosis" is not a disease) who have gradually come out of the fog, and are now able to read books, create art and music, work, and contribute to society.

 

I know some people still on them who are able to do so.

 

I think that the main factor that people are not looking at in here - is time.  If your symptoms are unrelenting after 5 years, then I'll consider it a tardive condition.  But most people are much better within 5 years of their last drug, and most people are improved after coming down 50% of their tapers.

 

If you have a tardive condition (long term, possibly drug induced), then consider these factors:

1.  Situation - situation is usually what fed us to the drugs to begin with.  This can be trauma, living conditions, and they feed a sense of hopelessness which makes it hard to recover.

2.  Chemical Issues - withdrawal.  There's not much you can do for this except stay stable and hopeful, and wait.

3.  Chemical issues - nutrition.  Again, sometimes this has driven people to the drugs to begin with - but after you've been on the drugs, nutrition is supremely important to heal.  Fish oil, magnesium are the prime supplements to consider.  Fresh veggies, sunlight, good fats, protein - all are vital for brain health.

 

If you have looked at everything in 1-3, and Everything Matters (see above) then it might be a tardive condition.  But in my experience, there is always something else you can do, can try, and even if you only get incrementally better - 1-2% - you are still better.  Again, like pearls on a string - those 1-2%'s can add up into "recovery," and can even look "normal," if you want it to.

 

There will be people who fit into this tardive category, like bdtd and compsports - but this is the minority.  Most of the people I know who have walked away would never go back (and I'll bet bdtd and compsports feel that way, too).  

 

JanuaryEve writes:

I have read most of Doidge's book. It is quite inspiring. But the problem is I found no clue as to what procedures would help me get my brain to heal the damage from drugs. 

 

There are hundreds of techniques in our Symptoms and Self Care section here at SA.  There is a wealth of information at Beyond Meds http://www.beyondmeds.com.

 

Unfortunately, it's a self-hack.  What works for me, may not work for you - but work you must, if you want to heal.  You must find what works for you.  This brain, this body, didn't really come with an owner's manual, and there is certainly no manual for "what to do when you've been experimented on by Big Pharma" - but there are many of us who have found things that help:

 

nutrition

Mood management

attitude adjustment

breathing

yoga

exercise

social support

laughter

learning

 

I am late for dinner - so - I must go - I'll look at page 2 later. 

hi Compsport and Jancarol, and all others

 

my sleep is destroyed now since 8 years, i have nightmares constantly, 3 to 4 or 5 hours, and can only start  sleep in the morning at 6 am,

 

i am good eating, and tried many things to sleep at night, no result, i am even worse, no sleeping

 

i suffer since off meds from chronic fatigue syndrome and many things in my signature

 

i read several testimonies in paxilprogress where people healed and said they do nothing for, they were as they have taken a ticket and wait their time to be healed, and they write their success story

 

why do i have to do special exercises and these people no ?

 

in an other hand, i cannot exercise, even walk is a challenge everyday

 

because if there exist something to do to heal my sleep and my CFS etc, so Compsport and i have lost many time waiting, 8 for me

 

it is not an exercise for stroke who will heal me i think, 

 

i can only notice that for some neuroplasticity works fast and fine and they have do nada for it, and for a minority, it works, i hope, but so slow, so slow

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stan

 

as for my own proof, i am severely damaged since 7 years off any med and know a few french damaged since 10 years now,

i know also personally a few french in similar frame time damaged by benzodiazepines and they are the same

a few years ago i believed that the brain has a big recovery capability with neuroplasticity, but with years, i slowly begin to doubt

 

we are still waiting neuroplasticity , even to function "normal", the question to be different is not actual for us

 

but i see some young who took short time and have fully recovered, why not neuroplasticity for all people, is neuroplasticity blocked for some?...

 

If you are still so ill and with chronic stress why don't you go back on medication? Unless you have sensitivity to meds? I know that I wld be back in now if I cld as I can't tolerate this at all but unfortunately I don't have a choice as my body won't tolerate anything.

 

because antidepressants do not function as you think, re-instating can make me 100 X worse than i am today

and re-instating can work to help taper, but a few years after i never heard an antidepressant healing someone

 

or all people would quick take a pill !

 

an antidepressant masks symptomes, he never healed something, same as you tell me to take an ecstasy to heal, it will only make me temporary happy crazy

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compsports

Regarding body wanting homeostasis, didn't happen in my case.    I started developing circadian rhythm problems a year before I started tapering and they have only gotten worse.  The other night, after consuming 1/2 can of sardines at 7pm, I felt like I had taken several ambiens and unfortunately crashed without putting on my bipap mask.  

 

Unfortunately, was only able to sleep 2 hours which has been typical of a severely fragmented sleep pattern.   I have researched every possible answer so you folks who don't think I am doing enough, you might want to reconsider that.

 

Asking if someone is investing in being a chronic patient is an extremely condescending statement.  It reminds me of how people suffering from long term damage were discounted on Paxil Progress.   Do you all really want to take after them?

 

No, I don't want the sleep doctor that I am seeing in a few weeks to fix it for me.   I want him to give me some ideas of why I might be having these strange difficulties and what might work to alleviate them.  If he suggests light therapy, then he needs to explain why when I have tried this in the past, I fall asleep when using it, particularly in the afternoon. 

 

Do I need to just keep working the program or is something else going on?  Maybe I am using it at the wrong time and he can suggest better ones?

 

Regarding telling someone they have to work at neuroplasticity, again, that is an extremely condescending statement.    Again, it sounds like this board is unintentionally becoming like Paxil Progress.   If you are struggling long term, it is our own fault.

 

 

You mentioned curiosity and because of that, I found out about irregular sleep wake disorder which sounds very similar to my situation.   Unfortunately, having that has not solved the problem in spite of my constantly rereading articles to make sure I am not missing anything.   That is why I am consulting a sleep doc who knows about circadian rhythm issues.

 

Again, regarding telling someone to have positive thoughts, that comes across as very condescending.    And as I jokingly tell people, if that really was the solution, I would have solved my mysterious sleep issues years ago.   Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

 

And by the way, my cousin several years ago was the most positive person you can think of.   She still died of cancer.

 

My mother who I considered to be a negative person although she had a very productive life, died at 93 in spite of smoking for 30 years.   I think the fact she took drugs sparingly was the key although of course, I can't prove it.

 

In summary, there seems to be the assumption that if someone is still struggling after several years, they haven't tried hard enough to get well.   That really needs to stop unless you want to be seen in the same way as the old Paxil Progress Boards were.   Obviously, I can't tell you all how to run your boards but I am just stating things as I see them.

 

 

 

 

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Shep

 

In summary, there seems to be the assumption that if someone is still struggling after several years, they haven't tried hard enough to get well.   That really needs to stop unless you want to be seen in the same way as the old Paxil Progress Boards were.   Obviously, I can't tell you all how to run your boards but I am just stating things as I see them.

 

 

 

 

You do raise some valid points, compsports.

 

One of the many problems with the psychiatric drug forums is we are dealing with more than one "audience".

 

We have the newer members, many arriving in the crisis state of being acutely ill from their drugs. They are just learning that it could take a number of months or even a number of years to heal. 

 

And they are taking that in while also dealing with the oncoming collateral damages (job loss, financial insecurity, possibly even the loss of a relationship or custody of their children). 

 

So we give information for that specific need. And that must be inline with a lot of hope because many people become acutely suicidal at this stage.

 

But then we have the "audience" of the long-term members, members who have suffered for many years while doing all of the non-drug coping skills, while holding onto hope, and looking for that neuroplastic answer. If not complete healing, than at least some evidence of progress, some evidence for hope. 

 

And for those such as yourself who are dealing with chronic insomnia, that weighs heavy on the mind, body, and soul. Many of my crisis states are in that state of insomnia. 

 

I don't see an easy answer to this, but I do think part of the problem comes from trying to handle all of these diverse set of "audiences" in one forum. If I had really understood how difficult this was going to be, how much I would lose financially, professionally, and personally back in 2014 when I was already rapidly coming off these drugs and had done a lot of damage, I'm not sure I could have handled that knowledge. I'm thankful the various forums I've been on did hand-feed me at times with scraps of hope until I understood this process. And I'm sure at times it was ridiculous hope. But it got me through another day and another day until I was strong enough to handle more realistic news. 

 

I do think the neuroplastic information is important and I encourage this mindset for that reason - it does offer hope. And it sets people up on the right course to at least mitigate some of the damage with non-drug coping skills to set a better course for healing, to at least set the stage and provide healthy distractions during a very dark journey. 

 

But I don't think anyone who is several years off their drugs and still suffering is in anyway responsible for not using non-drug coping skills or not having the right attitude. 

 

There are just too many unknowns and too many audiences in one place. Perhaps we could do more to "honor" the amazing strength in protracted members and I would welcome posts that go in that direction. 

 

It does take an enormous amount of strength to survive this and I see that strength everyday in the posts of the long-term survivors of this pandemic. There's a lot to be learned in that part of the process, as well, and the long-term survivors are the only ones who can offer this information, so I hope we can find a way to help all of the various "audiences" that come here to read and to post. 

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JanCarol

Okay, I've been thinking about this since my last post.

 

I agree that - not everybody heals perfectly.  In fact, maybe none of us heal perfectly.

 

I was looking at the forest, and one tree - had another tree land on it and nearly crush it.  But the tree grew around it - and I looked up, and saw other trees which were crooked, but growing strong.  The trauma became a part of the tree, became part of its strength, and its place in the forest.  The same with trees which had been burned in fire, or struck by lightening.  But - in the forest - some trees survived their traumas, and some did not.

 

Not every trauma can be worked around.  I thought about it like shoes.  Leather, when kept oiled and supple, can last a long time.  The drugs tend to make us brittle - but these things I've talked about - exercise, meditation, attitude, nutrition - help to re-oil the leather and can bring it back to life, to flexibility, to suppleness and usefulness

.  

It may not be as beautiful as it was, it may not be the same as it was.  I think a lot depends on how brittle our nervous system got before we started healing - 

 

and I do believe that - even in the face of ongoing and intrusive symptoms - there is still healing taking place.

 

Stan asks:

 

 

why do i have to do special exercises and these people no ?

 

What is so terrible about special exercises in the face of the suffering that you have already survived?

 

Life isn't fair, and some people waltz through - or - you don't know what they went through after they said "I'm all better now." (I suspect this is often the case, and that anyone who has been through the initiation of psych drugs will, on some level, always be engaged in a struggle for well being.)

 

Chronic fatigue is what I battle with, and depression.  I'm only a year out of my last dose, but I've had to work really hard to get where I am.  Maybe that's why I advocate for hard work.

 

If you are afraid of going outside - then that is what you must do.

If exercise is the hardest thing, then start small.  The more you move your body, the more it will heal.  Walking is the most healing exercise of all.   Tai Chi is incredibly gentle.

 

When someone says "I cannot exercise," I have found it is because they have an idea that they have to be able to run, jump, play ball, bicycle, lift weights - when really - lying on the floor and doing spinal twists is amazing for pain and fatigue.  "Legs on the Wall" is still exercise, and it's mindfulness, too, as you feel how your back is touching the floor, how your legs feel extended against the wall, how you breathe into this gentle stretch.

 

There are a million things that could help.  Even if it is just to shift your attention from your misery, to a place where you can abide.

 

CS:

 

 

Regarding telling someone they have to work at neuroplasticity, again, that is an extremely condescending statement.

 

I'm sorry you perceived it that way.  In my experience, it has been an important and vital part of healing to keep trying, keep working, keep learning.  Doing different things, trying uncomfortable things, all in the quest for wholeness again.  I still suffer memory and cog fog issues - sometimes I have to read an article or watch a video 3-4 times or more to actually remember what it said.  I might think I understood it in the reading - and then realize - after I walk away from it - that I remember nothing from it.  But it is 10x better than before when I was numbed under a lithium haze, and flattened by an antidepressant.  My sleep is weird, too - I've built my life around my weird sleep, and it's frustrating - I'm not awake at the same time as businesses, my day gets cut short by my strange sleep cycles.  But I keep trying, and have hope that someday I will be more productive than I am now.

 

I'm sorry that you feel this is turning into a PP sort of thing - but I guess what I'm saying is don't give up!

 

That you are breathing means there is more right with you than wrong with you in this moment.  - Jon Kabat Zinn.

 

I acknowledge that I am a different tree after I was broken and bent - but I'm trying to find the sun, I'm trying to take in helpful nutrients, I'm trying to stretch my limbs and be the best tree I can be - even though I have places which were bent and broken by the drugs (and surgeries, in my case).  

 

I'm not blaming anyone.  I'm sharing what I feel is valuable information, about how to do it, how to make it work. I have to believe in these things, techniques, efforts - because when I stop believing, I give up. 

 

I agree with you that it's not just "positive" and "negative," but there are undercurrents of subconscious could be addressed.  The face often matches the subconscious talk, but not always.  There are sometimes self-defeating programs underneath - and it's not a cake-walk, it's not easy, to just reach in and find them and remove them.  Sometimes the negative is a powerful force for healing.  As I like to say, "embrace the demons, put them to work!"

 

CS again:

Asking if someone is investing in being a chronic patient is an extremely condescending statement.

 

I was talking about my own journey, my own quest for "unpatienting" myself.  My own quest for "undiagnosing" myself.  And in sharing that journey, I apparently hit a button for you.  It was my hope, in sharing that, to shake things up a little, to tell my story in the hopes that others could find something similar in their own stories.  I think it is an important point. 

 

Who will I be, when I am no longer "Jan in Pain?"  or "Jan, Exhausted?"  Can I identify with that woman? Can I visualize what that is like?

Edited by JanCarol
Edit problem, quotes all wrong, truncated paragraph.

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Cressida

What worries me is not whether the majority of us will appear to heal but the drugs and WD battering of the brain will predispose us to develop dementia and unfortunately that's a question. O one can answer

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compsports

Shep,

 

Thank you very much for a conciliatory post.

 

I certainly don't want to take away the hope of newbies.   At the same time, when I keep reading posts that infer that everyone heals when I know several people who haven't, that is hard to deal with.

 

And by the way, when I had a sleep attack yesterday, out of curiosity, I changed my bipap setting to straight CPAP which normally I find very uncomfortable.  I was hoping I would get the best of both worlds and be able to lie down with my mask on without falling asleep.   Unfortunately, I fell asleep prematurely.   

 

As far as advice I would provide, this may already be covered on SA but I might advise folks, particular people like me who were on a cocktail of meds long term to consider micro-tapers and longer holds.   I greatly underestimated what these drugs did to my brain and thought I would be fine with the 10% withdrawal method.  Obviously, I wasn't. 

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Shep

 

As far as advice I would provide, this may already be covered on SA but I might advise folks, particular people like me who were on a cocktail of meds long term to consider micro-tapers and longer holds.   I greatly underestimated what these drugs did to my brain and thought I would be fine with the 10% withdrawal method.  Obviously, I wasn't. 

 

 

I think this is important information and I agree with it 100%, especially on the micro-taper.  I'll also add in the symptoms-based taper, which ties into your recommendation for longer holds. 

 

I hope the long-term members such as yourself do lend your voices to these types of conversations because not only do you have the experience of being several years off these drugs, you've been reading the accounts of dozens if not hundreds of other people and have gained insight from that. 

 

And that's an important perspective to have because if we can find ways of minimizing the damage on the way off the drugs, there's more chances of healing. Sometimes it's hard for people who are very new to this to understand, as the need to get back into their lives, to not lose their jobs or their finances, is so strong, they have trouble understanding this and want to hurry on through it. 

 

So your point is a very good one and I hope more long-term members stick around to advocate this as you are doing. It definitely steers the site in a better direction and could help some of the newer members understand the importance of the slower tapers with longer holds and how they will benefit more in the long run and thus lesson the chances for chronic damage. 

 

The newer members look to the long-term members.  And I do think there's room in the conversation for both hope AND for realism, and in connecting the two, perhaps find better ways of dealing with this pandemic. 

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stan

Okay, I've been thinking about this since my last post.

 

I agree that - not everybody heals perfectly.  In fact, maybe none of us heal perfectly.

 

I was looking at the forest, and one tree - had another tree land on it and nearly crush it.  But the tree grew around it - and I looked up, and saw other trees which were crooked, but growing strong.  The trauma became a part of the tree, became part of its strength, and its place in the forest.  The same with trees which had been burned in fire, or struck by lightening.  But - in the forest - some trees survived their traumas, and some did not.

 

Not every trauma can be worked around.  I thought about it like shoes.  Leather, when kept oiled and supple, can last a long time.  The drugs tend to make us brittle - but these things I've talked about - exercise, meditation, attitude, nutrition - help to re-oil the leather and can bring it back to life, to flexibility, to suppleness and usefulness

.  

It may not be as beautiful as it was, it may not be the same as it was.  I think a lot depends on how brittle our nervous system got before we started healing - 

 

and I do believe that - even in the face of ongoing and intrusive symptoms - there is still healing taking place.

 

Stan asks:

 

 

why do i have to do special exercises and these people no ?

 

What is so terrible about special exercises in the face of the suffering that you have already survived?

 

Life isn't fair, and some people waltz through - or - you don't know what they went through after they said "I'm all better now." (I suspect this is often the case, and that anyone who has been through the initiation of psych drugs will, on some level, always be engaged in a struggle for well being.)

 

Chronic fatigue is what I battle with, and depression.  I'm only a year out of my last dose, but I've had to work really hard to get where I am.  Maybe that's why I advocate for hard work.

 

If you are afraid of going outside - then that is what you must do.

If exercise is the hardest thing, then start small.  The more you move your body, the more it will heal.  Walking is the most healing exercise of all.   Tai Chi is incredibly gentle.

 

When someone says "I cannot exercise," I have found it is because they have an idea that they have to be able to run, jump, play ball, bicycle, lift weights - when really - lying on the floor and doing spinal twists is amazing for pain and fatigue.  "Legs on the Wall" is still exercise, and it's mindfulness, too, as you feel how your back is touching the floor, how your legs feel extended against the wall, how you breathe into this gentle stretch.

 

There are a million things that could help.  Even if it is just to shift your attention from your misery, to a place where you can abide.

 

CS:

 

 

Regarding telling someone they have to work at neuroplasticity, again, that is an extremely condescending statement.

 

I'm sorry you perceived it that way.  In my experience, it has been an important and vital part of healing to keep trying, keep working, keep learning.  Doing different things, trying uncomfortable things, all in the quest for wholeness again.  I still suffer memory and cog fog issues - sometimes I have to read an article or watch a video 3-4 times or more to actually remember what it said.  I might think I understood it in the reading - and then realize - after I walk away from it - that I remember nothing from it.  But it is 10x better than before when I was numbed under a lithium haze, and flattened by an antidepressant.  My sleep is weird, too - I've built my life around my weird sleep, and it's frustrating - I'm not awake at the same time as businesses, my day gets cut short by my strange sleep cycles.  But I keep trying, and have hope that someday I will be more productive than I am now.

 

I'm sorry that you feel this is turning into a PP sort of thing - but I guess what I'm saying is don't give up!

 

That you are breathing means there is more right with you than wrong with you in this moment.  - Jon Kabat Zinn.

 

I acknowledge that I am a different tree after I was broken and bent - but I'm trying to find the sun, I'm trying to take in helpful nutrients, I'm trying to stretch my limbs and be the best tree I can be - even though I have places which were bent and broken by the drugs (and surgeries, in my case).  

 

I'm not blaming anyone.  I'm sharing what I feel is valuable information, about how to do it, how to make it work. I have to believe in these things, techniques, efforts - because when I stop believing, I give up. 

 

I agree with you that it's not just "positive" and "negative," but there are undercurrents of subconscious could be addressed.  The face often matches the subconscious talk, but not always.  There are sometimes self-defeating programs underneath - and it's not a cake-walk, it's not easy, to just reach in and find them and remove them.  Sometimes the negative is a powerful force for healing.  As I like to say, "embrace the demons, put them to work!"

 

CS again:

Asking if someone is investing in being a chronic patient is an extremely condescending statement.

 

I was talking about my own journey, my own quest for "unpatienting" myself.  My own quest for "undiagnosing" myself.  And in sharing that journey, I apparently hit a button for you.  It was my hope, in sharing that, to shake things up a little, to tell my story in the hopes that others could find something similar in their own stories.  I think it is an important point. 

 

Who will I be, when I am no longer "Jan in Pain?"  or "Jan, Exhausted?"  Can I identify with that woman? Can I visualize what that is like?

 

 

 

In summary, there seems to be the assumption that if someone is still struggling after several years, they haven't tried hard enough to get well.

Asking if someone is investing in being a chronic patient is an extremely condescending statement.

hello JanCarol,
 
when i begin my taper, i was in paxilprogress,
after 11 months i finished taper
and read on board the testimonies
 
i tried to help newbies as i was helped,
and repeat what were the rules, we are better at 18 months, at 3 years all is fine, 
 
and if we are bad its because we do not work with Claire's Weekes book of stress fighting, we do not made cognitive therapy, it is our fault
i repeat this to newbies during maybe 2 or 3 years off
we even speak about stroke as example
i trusted the moderators
as at 3 years i was not healed, i put a better look on testimonies and discover:
the people who were success were all 2 years on drug, 5 years, very few 8 years
but people who were more than 10 years dissapear and no more come often, no success written
i have taken 13 years med
i began to analyze the testimonies more closer all over the web, espescially from people who took more than 8 and better 10 years, and in same time had several friends from boards, speak with...
 
this is to tell you that after 3 years we can have new opinions
 
and since, i am very careful about what i read on boards
 
(sorry for my english)
if you really have chronic fatigue syndrome fibromyalgia, it is very nasty, i have it
 
 
friendly

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compsports

Sorry Shep, I forgot to thank you for your last post.

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Trichotomous

I've read brain damage listed as a possible (likely?) side-effect of stopping antidepressants cold-turkey.

 

I did just that. Heck, I made two large decreases in dosage: one in 2007 and the final one in 2014. And then I read about brain damage.

 

So I want to know what brain damage we are talking about, specifically.

 

Turns out I never had the chronic depression I was diagnosed with (after just one hour!), but chronic anxiety. And I may be loaded up with PTSD.

 

Something unfortunate has been happening to me over the past couple years. I am struggling with language. I mangle words. I forget words. I slur. I forget names, even those of people I've known for years, all the time.

 

Never used to do this. I talk all the time. It's the largest part of my job. I've always prided myself on my communication skills. Now, I'm in trouble.

 

I don't know that this is the brain damage I've read about here. Otherwise, my intellectual capacity seems undiminished. The symptoms come and go. It may all be related to chronic fatigue, as I've not slept well in a couple years. It may be symptomatic of anxiety, which gets triggered by some of the nastier aspects of my job. The language problems and forgetfulness are worse during times of stress, particularly at work. In fact, this usually to happen at work, or when my counselor gets me riled up by having me recall what a craptastic life I've had. It does happen when I am just damn tired.

 

As far as this brain damage associated with stopping antidepressants, what am I looking for?

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AliG

T. Just look for the recovery.The brain has amazing healing qualities and if you focus on them rather than thinking/ looking for the damage you will be far better off in the long run. Positivity has a very real effect and it will serve you well to focus on that and disregard the rest of the negative noise that sometimes can drown out the gains that can come during and after withdrawal.       

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greyed

I'm an all or nothing person when it comes to this. As someone who was exploring his mental potential, taking the ADs before I learned about damage killed all motivation.

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Trichotomous

Yes, but I still want specifics. From this article, are the second phase of withdrawal symptoms indicative of the "brain damage" I question?

 

http://www.cchrflorida.org/ssri-withdrawal-effects-are-brutal-and-long-lasting/

 

Am I looking at the tardive akathisia described below:

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/08/ssri-discontinuation-is-even-more-problematic-than-acknowledged/

 

I know my doctor never mentioned what would happen if and when I quit Paxil. I know other doctors denied and trivialized side effects I described while I was on Paxil. The kickbacks doctors receive from pharmaceutical companies must be fantastic and conscience-easing.

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Jennifer78

To me a success story is when you are mentally well again and living with happiness and joy.

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ProzacWasCreatedBySatan1

My buddy that got on his ssri a month before I did, is symptom free :) both of us having adverse reactions he was on zoloft, I was on prozac. He stayed on his a little over 2 months, I stayed on 3 to 4 months. He has been 100% for about a month, I have been hitting 2 week long windows with only some minor communication issues, and waves of depersonalization that only last about 1-2 days at most. I'd say 70% of the time I'm happy and I mean actually happy. I guarantee in the next 6 months to a year I will be writing my 100% success story :)

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ProzacWasCreatedBySatan1

We have both been in WD a little over a year. It's amazing how far we have both come, we both had horrible depersonalization, brain zaps, and probably about 40 other symptoms. I feel lucky that it only lasted a year.

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JanCarol

I just found this on Beyond Meds:

 

Brain Injury from Psych Drugs

 

Where GiaK says:

 

There is an unfortunate belief in some parts of critical psych communities that says that the brain injury that many of us sustain as a result of psychiatric drug use and withdrawal is permanent and irreversible. That we cannot heal from it. 

 

I too find this repeated talk about permanent brain injury to be extremely unfortunate as well as irresponsible. It’s clear to me that many of us not only heal but transform into something healthier and more whole than we ever were before psych drugs. 

 

bold emphasis is mine.

 

There are many outcomes for everything always… I can imagine anyone hearing about permanent brain damage in the throes of the aftermath of a nasty withdrawal believing that it will be completely hopeless and futile to even try to get better…all of us feel that way in any case…to be told that we will be permanently injured in such a state may very well be a death sentence. I am serious about that. It’s a reckless thing to say given it’s simply not true across the board. People need to KNOW they can get better.

 

A comment from a reader (probably from Mad In America - MIA) named Alex:

 

Neuroplasticity is vital in this healing, and that is a limitless process, a game-changer. There is no predicting the future, but we can influence our own in the best way by staying open to all possibilities.

He continues:

 

Had I believed this bull**** about permanent damage, it wouldn’t have been just about me. There are many of us who would have been affectedly adversely by this pessimistic version of reality.

We have a choice–keep hope alive, or kill it. It not only affects the person in question, but absolutely everyone around them, and their extensions, filtering in the community, then society, then the world. Think about how this ripples….

 

Edit of expletive is mine - MIA has different language policies to SA.  

 

This sums up very firmly what I believe and preach (yes, preach) about "damage."

 

Yes, it's hard, yes you are different on the other side.  But we are always healing. 

 

I expect to still be healing in 10 years.  And that expectation may be all the difference in the world, the very reason for my hope.

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JanCarol

***Topics Merged*** Trichotomous had started a thread called "What Brain Damage" which is now folded into this discussion.

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JanCarol

And I will address Trichotomous' concern.

 

Yes, but I still want specifics. From this article, are the second phase of withdrawal symptoms indicative of the "brain damage" I question?

 

http://www.cchrflorida.org/ssri-withdrawal-effects-are-brutal-and-long-lasting/

 

Am I looking at the tardive akathisia described below:

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/08/ssri-discontinuation-is-even-more-problematic-than-acknowledged/

 

I know my doctor never mentioned what would happen if and when I quit Paxil. I know other doctors denied and trivialized side effects I described while I was on Paxil. The kickbacks doctors receive from pharmaceutical companies must be fantastic and conscience-easing.

 

 

CCHR has an investment, as a Scientology front group, in keeping you afraid, of needing their services.  Most of CCHR's material is fear based, to drive you to their product, Auditing and Scientology.  

The other article, by Stuart Shipko - may be the one that Giak is referencing in Beyond Meds. 

 

There is also a discussion of how SA disagrees with Shipko in principle, here:  Shipko Controversy

 

I think that people are challenged by the geologic time frames that healing require, and unable to accept small victories like improved cognition, or better sleep, or improved digestion - there are a million tiny ways someone might be Better - but if you get stuck on looking at "what is worse" you get caught in this "damage" trap which can be, as Alto said above, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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hacilar

I appreciate Shep's response to Compsports. 



After years of the same waves and windows pattern, and doing my *ABSOLUTE BEST* to be 'open' to eventual healing, and being sick to death of 'positive thinking' and the implied victim blaming, not only in regards to PAWS, but as a world view, I am relieved to see others who buck that meme.  It is what it is.  In Barbara Ehrenreich's book, "Sunnysided", she concludes that those who are by nature cynical or 'negative' (as some call us), are in fact far more realistic than those who religiously resist the darker sides of things. 

 

I feel that it is healthier, *for me*, to go ahead and feel those 'negative' feelings...to sit with them, for as long as *I* need to, because inevitably, the situation will change.  Windows happen.  But now, in the midst of yet another wave, the thought of the rest of my life being like this is very discouraging.

 

ps I don't know how to edit out the "Quote" box...sigh:(

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Cressida

I have been sent a post about Hacilar reacting badly to a Tin of sardines (mod note:  please see this post). That suggests to me he may be sensitive to histamine . I followed a low histamine diet and it really put me on the right road. 2 years after I started to follow a low histamine diet I am so much better and my histamine sensitivity much reduced . It broke the windows and waves pattern allowing my body to heal. I do sometimes have slight exacerbation s lasting a matter of hours in response to various triggers. Suggest you go on. benzo buddies post withdrawal recovery section and look at their 4 stages of healing resource to give you hope. Doesn't matter that you haven't taken benzo s neither had I but process /symptoms same . You can't positively think yourself out of illness otherwise our hospitals would be empty. It's finding that thing for you that allows your body to heal if you are stuck in PAWs. I couldn't have believed two years ago my life would be transformed so hang in there.

Edited by ChessieCat
added mod note

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hacilar

"I have been sent a post about Hacilar reacting badly to a Tin of sardines."

 

hacilar has never in her life ate a tin of sardines; I'm not sure what you're referring to..sorry

 

Monica C has backed off on her views about histamines.  I've already altered my diet radically, and in that I can't even think or read well right now, to figure out tricks or to understand processes is beyond my abilities.

 

I used to be smart, and my brain does come back online now and then, but to founder over comprehension while reading technical articles is a huge blow.  This must be what it's like for some dementia sufferers as they fade...

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Jennifer78

I think this topic takes all the hope from us who are trying to stay positive that this depression and anxiety etc will heal even if we did a cold turkey from long time med use! It sounds like maybe we should of just stayed on the meds. What's the point if we have brain damage? I agree with another poster who said this topic could literally be a death sentence to some of us who all we have is hope that we will heal!

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btdt
On 2017-5-25 at 2:23 AM, Cressida said:

I have been sent a post about Hacilar reacting badly to a Tin of sardines (mod note:  please see this post). That suggests to me he may be sensitive to histamine . I followed a low histamine diet and it really put me on the right road. 2 years after I started to follow a low histamine diet I am so much better and my histamine sensitivity much reduced . It broke the windows and waves pattern allowing my body to heal. I do sometimes have slight exacerbation s lasting a matter of hours in response to various triggers. Suggest you go on. benzo buddies post withdrawal recovery section and look at their 4 stages of healing resource to give you hope. Doesn't matter that you haven't taken benzo s neither had I but process /symptoms same . You can't positively think yourself out of illness otherwise our hospitals would be empty. It's finding that thing for you that allows your body to heal if you are stuck in PAWs. I couldn't have believed two years ago my life would be transformed so hang in there.

It could be however reacted to the tin of fish has a problem with Vit D... I have for a very long time now... or the tin... I no longer eat food from tin cans not ever. 

 

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