Jump to content

The role of dopamine in antidepressant withdrawal


Recommended Posts

ADMIN NOTE

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Merged similar topics containing remarkably similar recurrent misinformation about antidepressants, dopamine, and withdrawal symptoms.

 

Your body is run by hundreds of hormones. Serotonin and dopamine are only two of them. A mythology has been woven around them that has about the same validity as the Four Humors of ancient Greek medicine (blood, phlegm, yellow bile, black bile).

 

No emotional state or body function is governed by any one hormone. Serotonin and dopamine are not the happiness hormones.

 

Antidepressants don't do much to dopamine receptors. If you have emotional anesthesia, it has nothing to do with the condition of your dopamine receptors.

 

Be considerate of the staff and the other members of this community: Check your sources before posting alarming quotes here from Internet chit-chat or other questionable sources.

 


 

I stumbled upon this and found it sensible. ("other addictions part"

http://protractedbenzodiazepinewithdrawal.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/27-months/

 

It basically assess the agony of paws may lead to addictive behaviours (like computer, music, to name mine) which stimulate dopamine so as to make it through, and that in the long run it would possibly downregulate dopamine receptors and trigger/worsen/prolong anhedonia.

 

What do you think about it? Is there any other people who are bound to some alienating addictive behaviours so as to ease the making through the day?

 

Edited by Altostrata
Added admin note

First AD -sertraline- in 2007at the age of 13 because of child abuse

2009-2013: intricate story of multiple wds, meds and cts, gradually became a living mess

Feb 2013: last CT from a cocktail of four drugs, symptoms are relenting but witness a constant sharpening of the brain

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrator

I doubt that dopamine is responsible for any of those behaviors. Rather, people are doing what they can do to get through the day.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think about it? Is there any other people who are bound to some alienating addictive behaviours so as to ease the making through the day?

 

I think I try to find ways to console myself when I'm feeling poorly but I think thats pretty normal when I'm miserable. I haven't noticed an increase in addictive behaviors.

 

It's hard to find things to occupy my mind sometimes and old 'addictive' behaviors like watching sports are less satisfying that they used to be. Thats why I had to start betting $100 per basketball game to just try to get the pulse beating up to the level of giving a crap...

 

Alex

 

PS - I'm kidding about the gambling. That was a joke, the rest is true.

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

From article:

 

"I don’t believe anyone really does get to the point where they crave and want a benzo psychologically because it involves GABA, not dopamine."

 

Disagree. Any info that attributes specific attributes/liabilities to a single neurotransmitter is questionable, IMO. That's how this mess began to begin with ("serotonin = feel good NT"..."dopamine = feel good NT"..). The neurotransmitters don't function in a vacuum.

 

I know that dopamine has long been tied to addiction, but i believe that, for people who struggle with anxiety, the relief and calm from benzos / GABA can be very attractive and lead to physical and psychological dependence, dose escalation, drug seeking, and other characteristics of addictive behavior. Probably moreso with short acting benzos. A dopaminergic (ie. Theoretically, high addiction potential) might exacerbate anxiety and be very unattractive to some people.

 

My point being that everyone's *feel good* feeling is different depending on their natural or baseline state.

 

As for repetitive behaviors... I think we all do what we can to feel better and get through the hours and days. For me, driving with music for hours every day was a coping mechanism. I think it provided some relief or safety zone from derealization.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Barbarannamated

One additional thought: I can't seem to stop cutting my hair since withdrawing from Pristiq. I've never been a cutter / burner of skin and from what i know of that urge, i don't think this is the same. It usually happens when i have an incident with my toxic family or even a minor trigger. OCD ish... need to control something (since everything else in my life feels out of control)... get every hair in place.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 years later...
Vonnegutjunky

 

*Currently at 3.3mg off my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) so I’m around 7.4 mg 

*No other supplements or vitamins 

*Taper schedule in the pdf 

Blank.pdf

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator
manymoretodays

I think I already do.  With music and earbuds.  Aromatherapy.  Warm and soft textures.  Atmosphere.  Energy direction.  Color.

 

Of course I could do more.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. 

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Rockingchaircat

For me it'd be a guarded optimism. To reject it outright, would be tantamount to hypocrisy for me; what all with my Full Spectrum lamp that I've been touting.  I think I'd wait to see what happens for other folks before i'd be inclined to so much as give it a try.

1)Zoloft- 6/99 to 8/04 2)Escitalopram- 8/04 to 8/10 3)Citalopram 8/10 to 4/14 (C/T), 4)Paxil a week or so, 5)Wellbutrin a week or so, 6)Reinstated Citalopram- 9/14 to 7/15

Before Taper- Celexa/20 mg....Taper Start- 04/21/15- 15mg....05/26/15- 10 mg...06/22/15- 5 mg...07/18/15- 0mg. http://tinyurl.com/qjfoqe9 Ativan/Lorazepam use/taper 10/14 to 2/15- http://tinyurl.com/ljebp84

Baclofen- Intermittent use of from 2008 till 2014. Some use of Promethazine. Some use of Zofran. Clobetasol Propionate- for Lichen Planus. Some Flexeril use. 

Ativan- GABA,A receptor Agonist., Baclofen- GABA,B receptor Agonist., Celexa/Lexapro- Serotonin 5-HT1A Receptor Agonist., Zofran- Serotonin 5-HT3 Receptor Agonist..Promethazine- Histamine H1-Receptor Antagonist. Flexeril- Serotonin 5HT2a Antagonist.

 

My self imposed Amino Acid Therapy: Tyrosine 500mg 1xday, Theanine 200 mg 1xday, & Taurine 500 mg 2x day. (All neurotransitter pre-cursors)- seems to have helped me immensely. And of course- eating healthy, including Black Beans for the oligosaccharides for gut health.

 

The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind of trick learned while mastering the Art of Living. - Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...
Rockingchaircat

For what it's worth I've been trying non-drug ways of increasing dopamine; Tyrosine supplementation (neurotransmitter precursor), and aromatherapy- smelling things that elicit a good feeling in me: Chocolate, Maple Sugar, Ginger cookies.  Seems to help a wee bit.

1)Zoloft- 6/99 to 8/04 2)Escitalopram- 8/04 to 8/10 3)Citalopram 8/10 to 4/14 (C/T), 4)Paxil a week or so, 5)Wellbutrin a week or so, 6)Reinstated Citalopram- 9/14 to 7/15

Before Taper- Celexa/20 mg....Taper Start- 04/21/15- 15mg....05/26/15- 10 mg...06/22/15- 5 mg...07/18/15- 0mg. http://tinyurl.com/qjfoqe9 Ativan/Lorazepam use/taper 10/14 to 2/15- http://tinyurl.com/ljebp84

Baclofen- Intermittent use of from 2008 till 2014. Some use of Promethazine. Some use of Zofran. Clobetasol Propionate- for Lichen Planus. Some Flexeril use. 

Ativan- GABA,A receptor Agonist., Baclofen- GABA,B receptor Agonist., Celexa/Lexapro- Serotonin 5-HT1A Receptor Agonist., Zofran- Serotonin 5-HT3 Receptor Agonist..Promethazine- Histamine H1-Receptor Antagonist. Flexeril- Serotonin 5HT2a Antagonist.

 

My self imposed Amino Acid Therapy: Tyrosine 500mg 1xday, Theanine 200 mg 1xday, & Taurine 500 mg 2x day. (All neurotransitter pre-cursors)- seems to have helped me immensely. And of course- eating healthy, including Black Beans for the oligosaccharides for gut health.

 

The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind of trick learned while mastering the Art of Living. - Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderator
manymoretodays

For me it'd be a guarded optimism. To reject it outright, would be tantamount to hypocrisy for me; what all with my Full Spectrum lamp that I've been touting.  I think I'd wait to see what happens for other folks before i'd be inclined to so much as give it a try.

 

Yup.  I'd try it..........probably wouldn't want to be a lab rat about it though, unless the developers paid me or something for it.  I've done my time......believe me......being psychiatrist's experimental lab rat.    I figure it must be akin to watching a really great movie in a really comfortable theater or something.  I feel pretty good when I do that.

 

 

is melatonin also a precurser?

 

Feeling doubtful that it is but I'm no biochemist.  It does help me settle into sleep pretty well.......as long as it's dark out and fairly quiet........can't say that it helps with pleasant dreams or even mild euphoria or anything though.  Interesting if someone comes on and says it is.........a precursor to positive good feeling dopamine effects of some kind.

 

And then....ff, if you are coming off psychoactive stuff.......you could have some just strange reactions to just about anything...........as your once medication chemical/neurotransmitter system is re calibrating and adjusting big time.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016. 

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Rockingchaircat

By researching- I've discovered that one can increase one's dopamine without resorting to any kind of drug or amino acid.

 

More or less- aromatherapy. I've got several bags of items I keep on hand to 'smell/sniff'. One is a bag of maple sugar. Every time I take a whiff, my mouth waters- it's reminiscent of my childhood when Mom & Dad still pretended to like each other. Rhode Island snow with maple sugar on it.

A container of M & M's for the chocolate scent.

And a bag of Ginger cookies. Strangely enough I seldom get the urge to eat any of my stuff.

 

Result- dopamine the feel good hormone does seem to increase- I get goose pimples listening to stirring music.  Nice effect. And it puts me in a good mood.

1)Zoloft- 6/99 to 8/04 2)Escitalopram- 8/04 to 8/10 3)Citalopram 8/10 to 4/14 (C/T), 4)Paxil a week or so, 5)Wellbutrin a week or so, 6)Reinstated Citalopram- 9/14 to 7/15

Before Taper- Celexa/20 mg....Taper Start- 04/21/15- 15mg....05/26/15- 10 mg...06/22/15- 5 mg...07/18/15- 0mg. http://tinyurl.com/qjfoqe9 Ativan/Lorazepam use/taper 10/14 to 2/15- http://tinyurl.com/ljebp84

Baclofen- Intermittent use of from 2008 till 2014. Some use of Promethazine. Some use of Zofran. Clobetasol Propionate- for Lichen Planus. Some Flexeril use. 

Ativan- GABA,A receptor Agonist., Baclofen- GABA,B receptor Agonist., Celexa/Lexapro- Serotonin 5-HT1A Receptor Agonist., Zofran- Serotonin 5-HT3 Receptor Agonist..Promethazine- Histamine H1-Receptor Antagonist. Flexeril- Serotonin 5HT2a Antagonist.

 

My self imposed Amino Acid Therapy: Tyrosine 500mg 1xday, Theanine 200 mg 1xday, & Taurine 500 mg 2x day. (All neurotransitter pre-cursors)- seems to have helped me immensely. And of course- eating healthy, including Black Beans for the oligosaccharides for gut health.

 

The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind of trick learned while mastering the Art of Living. - Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Rockingchaircat

is melatonin also a precurser?

 

Kind of. Serotonin is converted into it, and is converted from it.  In certain circumstances...

1)Zoloft- 6/99 to 8/04 2)Escitalopram- 8/04 to 8/10 3)Citalopram 8/10 to 4/14 (C/T), 4)Paxil a week or so, 5)Wellbutrin a week or so, 6)Reinstated Citalopram- 9/14 to 7/15

Before Taper- Celexa/20 mg....Taper Start- 04/21/15- 15mg....05/26/15- 10 mg...06/22/15- 5 mg...07/18/15- 0mg. http://tinyurl.com/qjfoqe9 Ativan/Lorazepam use/taper 10/14 to 2/15- http://tinyurl.com/ljebp84

Baclofen- Intermittent use of from 2008 till 2014. Some use of Promethazine. Some use of Zofran. Clobetasol Propionate- for Lichen Planus. Some Flexeril use. 

Ativan- GABA,A receptor Agonist., Baclofen- GABA,B receptor Agonist., Celexa/Lexapro- Serotonin 5-HT1A Receptor Agonist., Zofran- Serotonin 5-HT3 Receptor Agonist..Promethazine- Histamine H1-Receptor Antagonist. Flexeril- Serotonin 5HT2a Antagonist.

 

My self imposed Amino Acid Therapy: Tyrosine 500mg 1xday, Theanine 200 mg 1xday, & Taurine 500 mg 2x day. (All neurotransitter pre-cursors)- seems to have helped me immensely. And of course- eating healthy, including Black Beans for the oligosaccharides for gut health.

 

The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind of trick learned while mastering the Art of Living. - Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 7 months later...

I did a search for this and didn't come up with any topics that address the potential role of dopamine in withdrawal or in depression....

 

 

do SSRIs' have any effect on dopamine levels? I was reading about zyprexa,  a drug I recently took w/ "good" results (it almost immediately alleviated my most distressing symptoms at that time)

I was looking more into how zyprexa works (as if anyone really knows....:P) but any way it says it's got some effect on dopamine as well as seratonin

 

has any one ever had a dr tell you that you had low dopamine?

I just don't know what to think any more. I know that the zyprexa made me feel a LOT better, but I am wondering now if that means I have low dopamine and if so, what can I do about it without taking dangerous drugs (of the prescription kind I mean)

 

 

  • pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total)
  •  Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years
  • started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. I tried to get off it several times. WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 
  •  2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs
  •  June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". Crashed in Sept, reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106
  • Tapered off to zero by  Oct. 2017 Doing very well
  • Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, current age 63 
  • Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content 
  • April 2021, loving life ❤️ 
 
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...
theloneranger86

Im going to see a neurologist, who I met 6 months ago in connection with my Withdrawal symptoms - PSSD, Anhedonia and Weak urine stream along with a few others. 

 

He mentioned that he saw low dopamine as the culprit and suggested that I take dopamine agonists , and that should be able to cure my condition. 

I will be seeing him soon and I want to know what everyone on SA thinks of Dopamine agonists . Im 30 and I want to be able to have sex and live my life , find a partner, I don't want to spend the rest of my life in this misery and so I want to try out evert possible way of treatment that's relatively safe . 

Iv heard a few people recovered with dopamine agonists and so Im very tempted to go for it

You guys here are an encyclopedia on withdrawal , so no place better to ask

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure about this to be honest , neurologist and phyciatrist do not see protracted withdrawel the same way as we do , and they are trying to treat normal depression ,not iatrogenic damage caused to our cns , I think you need advice from a moderator who maybe better to answer your question , if you do try one please let us no how you go , 

100mg Effexor 2000 untill jan 2015 severe withdrawals . Tapered 4weeks.

Jan to end of Feb 4 weeks on 15mg mirtazapine 20mg quetiapine , tapered of both 2 weeks , severe withdrawals , still some from Effexor possibly

End of Feb 2015 to end of July 30mg citolapram tapered 2weeks severe withdrawal , anxiety high , bouts of sever depression , severe emotional moods

Currently on 30mg mirtazapine appx 5 months , high anxiety, March cut dose 22.5 mg going on to liquid still no improvements with the depression , also started sept 2015 200mg pregabalin , currently on 22.5mg mirtazapine tablet form doing really badly. Cut beginning of May remeron 20mg still bad anxiety,August 15mg remeron ,100mg pregablin , severe depression headaches anxiety , oct 2016 doctor stoped pregablin c/t , 15mg mirtazapine still no let up in physical symptoms ,high anxiety ,Nov 2016 remeron 13.5 mg , Jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped flouxetine20mg added by hospital admission, no choice , doing really badly , akathesia suicidel ,, Flouxetine c/t by hospital after 7 weeks 20mg daily , currently on nothing , God help me

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a look at this. Perhaps it will help.

How Your Brain Can Turn Anxiety into Calmness

Published on Mar 12, 2010

Physician, author, speaker, researcher, and consultant Martin L. Rossman, MD, discusses how to use the power of the healing mind to reduce stress and anxiety, relieve pain, change lifestyle habits, and live with more wellness. Series: UCSF Mini Medical School for the Public [3/2010] [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 17631]

 

Re posted from Youtube All rights reserved. University of California Television (UCTV) 

 

 

My Son's Antidepressant Drug History:

ZOLOFT:  (a few months, not sure of the dosage)

EFEXOR: 150 mg daily for over 3 years

 

28th July 2017 - He stopped taking Antidepressants "Cold Turkey" (I am not saying this is the way to go). With NLP & Hypnosis via 2 Professionals that specialise in Addiction & Drug Abuse and Use.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was experimenting with low doses L-tyrosine  (took mid-morning) for a bit. think it was helping with energy & feeling happier but quit because I suffer from insomnia. I read somewhere (believe it was Julia Ross, The Mood Cure website) that until insomnia is resolved she does not recommend using it. So for me, I need to wait.

-2005 -2016 60mg Cymbalta

11/2016 abrupt drop to 30mg. Insomnia started (about 2x a week.)

6/29/2017 started aggressive taper. Dosage:6/29 25mg,7/7 20mg,7/10 15mg,7/1713mg,7/18 10 mg,7/22 8mg,7/31 7.5mg,8/1 6.25mg. At 6.25mg insomnia every night (waking 2-4am.) 

8/2017 began up dosing 8/9 7.5mg,8/16 10mg.

Late 2017 new taper from 25mg. Approx 10% reduction per mos (mini-tablets.) 10mg sleep would not stabilize. Cont'd taper meds running out.

Jan 2019 stopped taper at 2.5mg. Using only supplements. Morning 500mg tyrosine, 100mg L-theanine, 600mg NAC. After breakfast 1000mg fish oil, 5mg iron, 2000IU D3, B complex, 500mg ginseng, 50mg ginkgo, probiotics & 50mg zinc. Bedtime 1000mg tryptophan, 500mg gaba, 3mg time released melatonin, 325mg magnesium powder, & 100mg progesterone.

Feb 2019 brain zaps gone. Still have chronic insomnia & anxiety at times.

March 2019-Purchased Alpha Stim

May 2019-sleep still inconsistent.

 October 2019- (Morning) L-Tyrosine, Super B complex, 5mg ferritin,fish oil, vit c, (Evening)200mg progesterone, 1mg Natrol Time Release Melatonin, 325mg Calm magnesium, glycine powder. Alpha Stim only seems to help with anxiety not insomnia. Usually wake up nightly average of 2 hours. *Using 25mg Benadryl or 12.5mg Doxylamine Succinate occasionally

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing, I need to warn you that L-Tyrosine also has an effect on nor-epinephrine. From what I can tell in your signature you too are on an SNRI (Effexor).

-2005 -2016 60mg Cymbalta

11/2016 abrupt drop to 30mg. Insomnia started (about 2x a week.)

6/29/2017 started aggressive taper. Dosage:6/29 25mg,7/7 20mg,7/10 15mg,7/1713mg,7/18 10 mg,7/22 8mg,7/31 7.5mg,8/1 6.25mg. At 6.25mg insomnia every night (waking 2-4am.) 

8/2017 began up dosing 8/9 7.5mg,8/16 10mg.

Late 2017 new taper from 25mg. Approx 10% reduction per mos (mini-tablets.) 10mg sleep would not stabilize. Cont'd taper meds running out.

Jan 2019 stopped taper at 2.5mg. Using only supplements. Morning 500mg tyrosine, 100mg L-theanine, 600mg NAC. After breakfast 1000mg fish oil, 5mg iron, 2000IU D3, B complex, 500mg ginseng, 50mg ginkgo, probiotics & 50mg zinc. Bedtime 1000mg tryptophan, 500mg gaba, 3mg time released melatonin, 325mg magnesium powder, & 100mg progesterone.

Feb 2019 brain zaps gone. Still have chronic insomnia & anxiety at times.

March 2019-Purchased Alpha Stim

May 2019-sleep still inconsistent.

 October 2019- (Morning) L-Tyrosine, Super B complex, 5mg ferritin,fish oil, vit c, (Evening)200mg progesterone, 1mg Natrol Time Release Melatonin, 325mg Calm magnesium, glycine powder. Alpha Stim only seems to help with anxiety not insomnia. Usually wake up nightly average of 2 hours. *Using 25mg Benadryl or 12.5mg Doxylamine Succinate occasionally

Link to post
Share on other sites
TryingToHoldOn

I would not take a dopamine agtagonist.  

 

Dopamine antagonist = antipsychotics

Mid 2014 - June 2016 (~ 2.5 yrs): sertraline 75mg. Under advice of my Pysch NP, weaned off in 1 month

Sept 2017 - Feb 2017 (6 months): Latuda (dose 20mg up to 80mg). Under advice of Psych NP, weaned off in 6 weeks (Jan - mid Feb). Tirtated down 20mg every 2 weeks.

Nov 2017 - Feb 2017 (3 months): lamictal 100mg. Abruptly taken off. This was the "wean": 100mg, 50mg, then off

Feb 2017: sertraline 150mg for 1 week to bring me out of a severe suicidal depression. Abruptly stopped due to serotonin syndrome. Tried to reinstate 50mg a week later, but the serotonin syndrome symptoms came back. Not possible to reinstate sertraline.

March 2017: remeron 7.5mg. Took one dose that knocked me out for two days. Refused to take it again

February 2017 - March 2017: Ativan 1mg. Took 5 pills total spread out over the course of 3 weeks. No longer taking it.

6/16/18 - 6/26: celexa 1.25mg

6/27/18 - 6/29: celexa 2.5mg, 6/29 had burning and agitation within 30min of dose

6/30/18 - present: celexa 1.25mg

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, TryingToHoldOn said:

I would not take a dopamine agtagonist.  

 

Dopamine antagonist = antipsychotics

He said agonist not antagonist.

 

Dopamine receptors agonists are molecules that link to dopa receptors and produce the signal like the neurotransmitter.

 

Antagonsts block the receptor and make it incapable to work.

 

Speaking with the OP, I would NOT take any more **** that mess with the brain.

 

Even if you had low dopamine leveles, thing IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY with eye like this dude made the diagnosis, even if you had that you would make things only worse taking agonist.

 

By overstimulating dopamine receptors you would signal your body to DECREASE dopamine production and receptors activity, so actually lowering dopamine and dopamine activity.

 

That's the reason these shits are lethal, they create the exact condition they claim to """cure""".

 

I doubt very much anyone "recovered" taking these or any drug (legal or  illegal).

 

They can feel much better yes, they can even feel healed and working, but it's just a matter of time before the gentic responses are triggered and the body adapt to the overstimulation and finally compensate.

 

It can be weeks or months or even years if you are very lucky, but once that happens you'll find yourself worse than the beginning and slave to these chemicals to function again

 

 

I'm sorry, didn't write a proper diary and my memory is very bad, can't remember exactly all dosages . Here is a short summary

Drugged since i was 11 yo.

Prescribed several SSRI, neuroleptics, mood stabilizers, benzos.Last prescription was lithium, lamotrigine , 20 mg paroxetine, rivotril

Tapered fast lithium and lamotrigine with little to no symptoms 3 years ago.Since then i'm tapering paroxetine and going through withdrawal syndrome. My tapering was not   stable and that's probably the cause of a lot of acute symptoms i had .

Currently at 0.8 mg of paroxetine

Trying now a micro-taper of 0.02 cuts

15/07/2017 tapered to 0.74  (having waves and windows. Cognitive impairment, akathisia, apathy, anxiety, vision problems, depression, paranoia, obsessive toughts, extreme fatigue,  and some more: all comes in waves except vision problems wich are persistent)

08/09/2017 0.72 mg 28/09/2017 0.70 mg

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
TryingToHoldOn
21 hours ago, Why said:

He said agonist not antagonist.

 

My mistake, sorry.

Mid 2014 - June 2016 (~ 2.5 yrs): sertraline 75mg. Under advice of my Pysch NP, weaned off in 1 month

Sept 2017 - Feb 2017 (6 months): Latuda (dose 20mg up to 80mg). Under advice of Psych NP, weaned off in 6 weeks (Jan - mid Feb). Tirtated down 20mg every 2 weeks.

Nov 2017 - Feb 2017 (3 months): lamictal 100mg. Abruptly taken off. This was the "wean": 100mg, 50mg, then off

Feb 2017: sertraline 150mg for 1 week to bring me out of a severe suicidal depression. Abruptly stopped due to serotonin syndrome. Tried to reinstate 50mg a week later, but the serotonin syndrome symptoms came back. Not possible to reinstate sertraline.

March 2017: remeron 7.5mg. Took one dose that knocked me out for two days. Refused to take it again

February 2017 - March 2017: Ativan 1mg. Took 5 pills total spread out over the course of 3 weeks. No longer taking it.

6/16/18 - 6/26: celexa 1.25mg

6/27/18 - 6/29: celexa 2.5mg, 6/29 had burning and agitation within 30min of dose

6/30/18 - present: celexa 1.25mg

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, TryingToHoldOn said:

My mistake, sorry.

No need to sorry.

I just wanted not to mame confusion for the OP.

Rereading my sentence it seemed rude but that wasn't my intention :)

I'm sorry, didn't write a proper diary and my memory is very bad, can't remember exactly all dosages . Here is a short summary

Drugged since i was 11 yo.

Prescribed several SSRI, neuroleptics, mood stabilizers, benzos.Last prescription was lithium, lamotrigine , 20 mg paroxetine, rivotril

Tapered fast lithium and lamotrigine with little to no symptoms 3 years ago.Since then i'm tapering paroxetine and going through withdrawal syndrome. My tapering was not   stable and that's probably the cause of a lot of acute symptoms i had .

Currently at 0.8 mg of paroxetine

Trying now a micro-taper of 0.02 cuts

15/07/2017 tapered to 0.74  (having waves and windows. Cognitive impairment, akathisia, apathy, anxiety, vision problems, depression, paranoia, obsessive toughts, extreme fatigue,  and some more: all comes in waves except vision problems wich are persistent)

08/09/2017 0.72 mg 28/09/2017 0.70 mg

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...
theloneranger86

Some people feel so bad they want to die, but don’t follow through because they actually lack motivation. There is no pleasure. That must sound doesn’t it, but it holds true for many.
Why bother with anything, nothing brings you pleasure… this kind of depression is related to dopamine imbalances.
Does it sound like you?

You’ve been trained to equate depression with serotonin deficiency, not dopamine, but in fact people with serotonin-related depression don’t usually wish to die. They feel blue, they have no motivation, sometimes poor self esteem, but they don’t want to really die. They are commonly put on drugs such as Prozac, a very good one if you’re aiming to raise serotonin temporarily. But

Prozac might backfire, I’ll tell you why in a minute. It has to do with fluoride and iodine. My point right now is depression is NOT a Prozac deficiency (or Celexa, or Cymbalta, or Lexapro, or any of them).  They may be helpful, and you may rely on them but the point here is depression results from something other than a medication deficiency. There’s an important distinction I want to make, one that could potentially save your life, or someone you love.

People with low dopamine are the ones to watch closely.

Dopamine deficiency will cause you to wake up sluggish in the morning, usually with brain fog, but you might feel happier and suddenly more enthusiastic with a “hit” of some sort, perhaps a cup of coffee.  Low dopamine (as opposed to low serotonin) causes a different kind of depression, one that is hallmarked by a lack of pleasure.

Serotonin deficiency makes life less optimistic, and it’s like the glass is always half empty. I’m talking about this more in an online summit and you can watch my interview for free. Sign up today because it starts on June 14th, the link for the Depression summit is below.

Mild states of depression related to dopamine deficiency force you to need a “hit” of something sugary, or caffeinated. It may manifest itself differently for each individual. Some women want to go shopping, men may want to gamble or have sex more frequently (until dopamine runs out then they lose interest altogether).

Dopamine deficiencies affect more than your mood. Most of us don’t think about the ability of getting up out of a chair, walking, and holding a glass of water or writing. We take it for granted, but difficulties here (like tremor or weakness) may point to damage in the substantia nigra, a part of your brain where dopamine is manufactured.

Tremors and balance problems, gait disturbances, trouble with planning, slower thinking processes are all issues that individuals with Parkinson’s disease struggle with.  Parkinson’s disease is due to abnormally low dopamine levels, or poor utilization of dopamine compounded with high levels of inflammation chemicals in the brain called “cytokines.”

You might think “inflammation” in the brain doesn’t apply to you but mild brain ‘swelling’ is pretty common, especially in people with chronic infections. Did you think those cytokines stay in your bloodstream without ever going into your head? Of course not, the inflammatory chemicals can get into your brain by crossing the blood-brain barrier causing dopamine imbalances galore!

Do you want to know about the connection between thyroid and depression? How about the relationship between all your neurotransmitters and mood (and how to naturally raise happy brain chemicals)? You may want to take a few minutes to read my other article: Depression, Anxiety, Thyroid, Migraines, Celiac and More… Your Questions Answered.

And You Thought Fluoride Was ONLY In Toothpaste

Some antidepressants have a backbone made of fluoride. It’s called a “fluorinated” drug because it has fluoride in it as a component. Shocking but true, fluorine can chemically displace iodine off a cell’s receptor. Your thyroid gland is a sponge for iodine. It’s like a bully and it punches the iodine out, and takes it’s place. When you become iodine deficient, you can’t make thyroid hormone. BAM!

Low thyroid hormone has to be one of the most common reasons for depression, and the prescription drugs do not increase thyroid hormone (remember, most of them lift serotonin), and that’s yet another reason that your mood fizzles out after a while when you stay on SSRI antidepressants too long! These drugs don’t correct imbalances of thyroid hormone. There are many drugs that are fluorinated which I’ve outlined for you below.

fluorine-image.jpg

Redox Homeostasis

Researchers are currently studying a process called “Redox Homeostasis” and how to keep it in balance within the brain, critical for preventing neurodegeneration which leads to depression, Parkinson’s and other neurological disorders. Redox homeostasis refers to a constant recycling process in your cells that involves free radical production with subsequent reduction and clearance of free radicals.

To neutralize the free radicals (termed ROS for Reactive Oxygen Species), you need antioxidants. If you don’t have enough antioxidants your system gets overwhelmed with the oxidants! Makes sense right? This is why pushing more and more serotonin into your body doesn’t cure depression. In 2012, there was a scientific paper in Nutritional Neuroscience  exploring the brain benefits conferred by simple, affordable nutrients such as Vitamin A, Vitamin E and CoQ10 for Parkinson’s- the focus was more specifically on how these antioxidants reduced “neuronal cell death.”

The article points out what we know, that basically “oxidative stress plays a role in the etiology and progression of PD [Parkinson’s Disease].” But again, natural endogenous levels of antioxidants that you have in your body helps offset the damage done in the CNS [Central Nervous System].

I’m not saying to stop your antidepressants, Lord knows that many of you truly depend on them. But at the same time, I do think you (actually all of us here!) could spend more time on the critical ways to protect the brain (rather than upping all the hormones, and tilting the neurotransmitters out of balance). That’s kind of what you do when you take serotonin-lifting drugs you know. You lift serotonin so high  that this metabolically ‘pushes down’ all your other brain hormones — the ones that you need for a good sex life, and a happy mood… the players I’m referring to are GABA, dopamine and acetylcholine, and others. Withdrawal symptoms can be horrible, these drugs are supposed to be weaned slowly under physician supervision if discontinue them.

Your brain needs to do more important things such as the following:

1) Quell the free radicals (reduce ROS ‘Reactive Oxygen Species’ and other cytokines) with antioxidants

2) Consider and discuss the use of dopamine-lifting supplements or drugs but be careful. This has to be done very slowly or you could increase suicide risk. We see this with SSRI drugs, the risk of suicide goes up in some people, possibly because they are so dopamine deficient to begin with.

3) Check thyroid hormone levels properly, follow the instructions for testing as well as my recommended lab values listed in my book, Thyroid Healthy. Make sure okay, because low thyroxin or poor peripheral T4 to T3 conversion has the same clinical presentation as low dopamine depression.

4) Opt for a healthier diet, not the SAD diet (Standard American Diet). It is kind of “SAD” if you think about it. This dietary lifestyle leads to higher ROS and disrupts Redox Homeostasis. Worse than that, your microglial cells (immune cells in the brain) fight an uphill battle of widespread cellular inflammation that can’t be seen on CTs or MRIs. The floodgates of cytokines open up and dump chemicals out that dampen mood, make you feel anxious, or affect your coping mechanisms. When your NF Kappa B pathway gets activated and STAYS activated, it can cause mild brain inflammation.

At first it may be subtle, but over time, the cerebral edema erodes your health. Conventional medicine’s answer to this is a pretty pill, at about $200 per month. You can’t ever really get off them, at least not easily because they re-program your neurotransmitter ‘wires’ in your brain, making you depending on higher and higher doses. Some of you may feel terrible off the drugs, yet still numb to the world when ON the drugs. Can’t win for losin’ as they say.

Since I write about depression quite a bit, some of you have emailed me to ask if I have depression, or if I’ve ever had it and “How do I know so much about it?”
The answer is no, that is not something I’ve really suffered with.

My joke around the house is that I have two speeds, “Happy” and “Weeee!” My husband is also a happy-go-lucky kind of guy. He’s real chill. For as long as I’ve known him, he’s never been depressed except for a short period of time (4 or 5 weeks) when he took the prescription medication called Mepron (atovaquone), a drug used to treat what they thought was Babesia (but it wasn’t that), anyway, this drug can honestly drive people to such a “dark” place with profound abnormal mood changes that I personally don’t think it should be allowed on the market (at least not with current dosage guidelines). That’s my opinion.

Well, anyway, we discontinued that medicine in a flash, the minute I realized how he was morphing, and it was easy to tell because he’s an otherwise happy, funny guy. If you want more on the common infection called Babesia (or Lyme disease) please CLICK HERE

Depression does not run in my family. It does follow genetic lines though. If you have a BH4 or COMT gene SNP you might be more prone to depression.

I can help you too. Just like you I have endured painful losses and my share of grief, but I have overcome those situations emotionally. I’m rather stable, very little rattles me. So I want to assure you that you can get out of the place you’re in. I assure you, it’s one thing to be situationally sad or grief-stricken, it’s another to live in that mode for more than a few weeks. Some of you have resonated there for years. It is YOU I want to reach, and help … and show you that you can enjoy life once again and “find a happy place” like Peach, the starfish said in Finding Nemo.

He’s Got a Big Head

Have you ever said that about a guy? What if it were true and someone you loved had a swollen head, and at this point, I mean it literally of course. I’m referring to brain swelling, the very mild kind that is probably not picked up on scans and imaging. It causes extreme morning brain fog, and trouble with speech, word finding and recall. It can make you feel drunk (when you haven’t drank), and it is often associated with hypoxia. It’s technically termed “cerebral edema.”

Cerebral edema, I must tell you this is much harder to overcome if you live at higher altitudes too, so if you live a mile high (think Denver or Salt Lake city), your astrocytes swell and this increases intracranial pressure. The medical term for it is “High Altitude Sickness” and they use Acetazolamide to drain the brain (brand name is Diamox).

Among other major health problems, mild cerebral edema means your mood takes a dive. Without being able to put your finger on it, you might just feel better at lower altitudes or at sea level. Some of you get a clue because you know you feel better in your head when you swim underwater. Weird but true. Pycnogenol may be helpful for you.

Don’t squirt any lighter fluid your hot outdoor grill.

By that I mean, your brain is on fire, you may already have a diagnosis of depression or Parkinson’s, or an autoimmune disease like Hashimoto’s, Lupus or MS… or you have Lyme disease or Babesia. Maybe you are post-TIA or stroke… and then you do things (or eat foods) that ignite your mildly inflamed brain. Foods such as processed or refined junk foods, soda pop, candy bars or sugary treats will act like lighter fluid and overwhelms Redox Homeostasis. I’m not getting to deep into this but I want you to know that eating pro-inflammatory foods (refined, processed, or foods you are sensitive to) will also cause you to create more quinolinate, peroxynitrite and glutamate. Those are all nervous system excitotoxins that hurt your brain and damage mood.

Understanding this process is fundamental to improving mood and stopping neurological degeneration. Make targeted choices and discuss the use of nutritional supplements that we know put the fire out. It’s a step. You will still need to work towards balancing your hormones.

The brain supplements such as natural vitamin E (especially tocotrienols), resveratrol, Japanese knotweed, NAC or glutathione, curcumin, PQQ, ubiquinol or CoQ10 protect microglial cells and in turn, these help prevent the loss of dopamine and cell membranes. Ask your doctor if they’re right for you.

A study published in the May 2015 Neurobiology of Disease found that vitamin E, minocycline (a prescription drug) and resveratrol could each help balance the Redox Homeostasis process and quell oxidation due to dopamine imbalances and high levels of free radicals. For pennies a day, these items could boost mood and help reduce suicidal ideation.

We can’t stop the clock, and we can’t take a happy pill, but we can sure make better choices that over time improve mood. Increase your intake of  colorful antioxidant-rich berries and foods. Other considerations to discuss with your doctor include ways to manage blood sugar, iron status, methylation SNPs, chelating or at least reducing chemical toxins.

 

 print

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://suzycohen.com/articles/depression_low_dopamine/

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
  • Administrator

This undated article is based on the "chemical imbalance" theory, to which we at SurvivingAntidepressants.org do not subscribe.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice about something that I found online that REALLY scared me. I know that googling our symptoms related to withdrawal is not beneficial to our healing, but I stumbled on this information when I was trying to research foods that would help with receptor repair. It's related to anhedonia and it expresses that dopamine receptors can permanently down regulate and often times only have the ability to recycle themselves, so once they are damaged they are rendered useless. The only drug that I took was Wellbutrin and it's main mechanism of action works on dopamine so this really concerns me. This is the quote that I found that really freaks me out.

 

"Wellbutrin tricks the brain that it doesn't need to make dopamine, and dopamine is the only chemical in the brain that once it is damaged, you never get it back."

 

Can someone please provide me with reassurance and/or feedback on their experience with drugs that act on dopamine receptors and if they have experienced any change in their anhedonia/depression when they got more time behind them in withdrawal?

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for asking this question. I've been wondering that too but for dopamine and fatigue. I began getting worse recently when I started trying to be more productive. 

 

I got some hope from a close friend of mine who was on dexedrine (also dopaminergic) as prescribed for over 10 years. He quit it a couple of months ago and is doing well so far. He does drink a lot of coffee now though. I would like more success stories too...especially with WB.

2004: Occasional Clonazepam, and I think Celexa. 2005 - 2006: Effexor, then increased to high dose, then switched to Valproate, then Seroquel. 2007: Wellbutrin + Strattera + Celexa. 2007 - 2008: Wellbutrin + Adderall + Paxil. 2008 - 2012: Wellbutrin + occasional SSRIs when I had worsened "depression", which happened around 4 times, usually after CT of WB. 2012 - 2014: WB + Sertraline, then WB + Pristiq (awful W/D) then WB + rTMS, then random experimental meds. 2014 - 2016: Wellbutrin 200 mg + Abilify 2-4 mg + Adderall 20-40 mg + Cipralex 20 mg. Oct 2016: "Tapered" Cipralex, felt outrageously anxious, irritable. Dec 2016: "Tapered" Adderall, then felt depressed, hopeless, fatigued.  Feb 6 2017: reinstated 20 mg Adderall. Mar 2017: switched to Vyvanse, upped to 30 mg. May - Aug 2017: "Tapered" Vyvanse + Abilify to zero. Oct 25, 2017: Wellbutrin from 200 to 100 mg. Sep 10, 2018:  Wellbutrin from 90 to 60 mg. Oct 29, 2018: WB from 60 to 50 mg. Dec 19, 2018: WB from 50 to 45 mg. Apr 15, 2019: WB 41 mg. May 14, 2019: WB 37 mg. Jun 8, 2019: WB 33 mg. Jul 22: WB 30 mg. 

 

Working hard to take my life back from pharma. Anything I say here is as a friend or peer supporter; it is not medical advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is food for thought.  I'm the same. Debilitating fatigue. Have to lie down after simple tasks...or no tasks at all. I was also on Wellbutrin 300mg (bupropion in my sig)...I'm sure the 20mg of dexamphetamine didn't help.  Currently rolling my eyes. K

  • Citalopram 20mg - 40mg ~ approx 2010 - October 2015 (stopped over one week)
  • Parnate  20mg - 50mg and olazapine 5mg ~ Jan 2016 - May 2016 (ceased over 2 days) 
  • Lithium 450mg-900 mg and Thyroxin ~May 2016 - May 2017
  • Diazepam various doses (including PRN) ~ 2015 - 2017
  • Oxazepam various doses (including PRN) ~ May 2016 - June 2016
  • Lurasidone 20mg ~Mid May 2016 - Mid June 2016
  • Vortioxetine 10mg - 20mg ~ 6th June 2016 - 20th July 2016 (abruptly ceased)
  • Amitriptyline 200mg ~July 2016 - September 2016 (ceased over 1 week)
  • Nortriptyline  (dose ?) ~October 2016 ~ November 2016 (abruptly ceased)
  • Seroquel XR 100mg - 300mg ~ May 2016 - August 2017 (ceased over 3 weeks)
  • Escitalopram 10mg - 30mg ~ August 2016 - March 2017 (ceased over 2 weeks)
  • Bupropion 300mg ~ December 2016 - May 2017 (ceased over 1 week)
  • Clonazepam 1.5mg daily ~ July 2016 (started tapering May 2017 - September 2017 currently on 0.375mg..ie 0.125mg TDS) 27th May 2018 5% 0.357mg (possible paradoxical reaction - see benzo thread)  28th June 5% 0.337mg, 28th July 10% 0.303mg, 12th September10% 0.272mg, 18th September reinstated 10% due to intolerable WD 0.303mg, 1st October-11th Oct 10% (1% reduction over 10 days) 0.272mg, 22nd October clonazepam ceased crossed over 10mg diazepam
  •  Dexamphatamine 20mg ~ December 2016 (started tapering October 2017 - tapered 1.25mg 4th Dec 2017, 1.25mg 19th Dec 2017 6.25mg, Speed up decrease due to major interaction between Dex and fluoxetine- ref to thread 10% 17th Feb 2018 5.63mg, 10% 21st Feb 2018 5.1mg, 10% 26th Feb 2018 4.5mg 10% 28th Feb 4.1mg, 10% 1st March 3.7mg, 10% 5th March 3.3mg, 10% 8th March 3mg, 10% 10th March 2.7mg, 10% 12th March 2.4mg, 10% 14th March 2.16mg, 10% 16th March 1.94mg, 10% 18th March 1.74mg, 10% 20th March 1.57mg, 10% 21st March 1.41mg, 10% 22nd March 1.26mg, 10% 23rd March 1.13mg, 10% 24th March 1.01mg, 10% 25th March 0.9mg, 10% 27th March 0.81mg, 10% 29th March 0.73mg, 10% 31st March 0.66mg, 10% 2nd April 0.59mg , 10% 4th April 0.53mg, 10% 6th April 0.47mg, 10% 8th April 0.42mg, 10%10th April 0.37mg, 11th April 0.2mg, 12th April 0.1mg (last dose) OFF! 
  • Fluoxetine 40mg ~December 2016 -.31 Jan 2018 reduced to 20mg (probable serotonin toxicity) 10th March 2020 10mg, 7th April 9mg, 1st May 8.5mg, 15th May 8.0mg, 27th May 7.5mg, 8th Sept 7.2mg, 2nd Oct 7mg, 19th Oct 6.8mg, 28th Oct 6.6mg, 5th Nov 6.4mg, 26th Nov 6mg, 2nd April 2021 5.9mg, 9th April 5.8mg, 19th April 5.75mg, 22nd April 5.7mg, 26th April 5.65mg,28th April 5.6mg, 1st May 5.5mg, 4th May 4.45mg, 7th May 4.4mg, 10th May 4.35mg
  • Diazepam 10mg ~ 22nd Oct 2018, 10th November 8mg, 14th Nov 7mg, 8th December 6mg, 30th December 5mg (Nocte), 7th March 2019 4.5mg,14th March 4mg, 5th April 3.5mg, 9th April 3mg, 18th April 2.5mg,1st May 2mg, 17th May 1.75mg, 25th May 1.6mg, 4th June 1.59mg, 5th June 1.58mg, 6th June 1.57mg, 7th June 1.56mg, 8th June 1.55mg, 22nd June 1.4mg, 4th July 1.2mg, 16th July 1mg, 30th July 0.8mg, 13th Aug 0.6mg, 28th Aug 0.4mg, 10th Sept 0.2mg, 23rd Sept Off! 
  • SR Circadin 2mg (melatonin) 25th May - 20th June 
  • Zolpidem 10mg 25th May (7 tablets)
  • Supplements: Magnesium glycinate (soluble - sip throughout the day) 

 

"Whenever you feel yourself doubting how far you can go,  just remember how far you have come.  Remember everything you have faced, all the battles you have won, and all the fears you have overcome"    Unknown 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hellbutrin, I also looked up your quote and I think that I found it. The source doesn't look too credible. What I try to tell myself though with this stuff, and with the animal studies showing irreversible effects of drugs, is that a lot of findings aren't transferable between species. Even between two species of rats, let alone rats to humans. So fingers crossed that we'll get through this intact. 

2004: Occasional Clonazepam, and I think Celexa. 2005 - 2006: Effexor, then increased to high dose, then switched to Valproate, then Seroquel. 2007: Wellbutrin + Strattera + Celexa. 2007 - 2008: Wellbutrin + Adderall + Paxil. 2008 - 2012: Wellbutrin + occasional SSRIs when I had worsened "depression", which happened around 4 times, usually after CT of WB. 2012 - 2014: WB + Sertraline, then WB + Pristiq (awful W/D) then WB + rTMS, then random experimental meds. 2014 - 2016: Wellbutrin 200 mg + Abilify 2-4 mg + Adderall 20-40 mg + Cipralex 20 mg. Oct 2016: "Tapered" Cipralex, felt outrageously anxious, irritable. Dec 2016: "Tapered" Adderall, then felt depressed, hopeless, fatigued.  Feb 6 2017: reinstated 20 mg Adderall. Mar 2017: switched to Vyvanse, upped to 30 mg. May - Aug 2017: "Tapered" Vyvanse + Abilify to zero. Oct 25, 2017: Wellbutrin from 200 to 100 mg. Sep 10, 2018:  Wellbutrin from 90 to 60 mg. Oct 29, 2018: WB from 60 to 50 mg. Dec 19, 2018: WB from 50 to 45 mg. Apr 15, 2019: WB 41 mg. May 14, 2019: WB 37 mg. Jun 8, 2019: WB 33 mg. Jul 22: WB 30 mg. 

 

Working hard to take my life back from pharma. Anything I say here is as a friend or peer supporter; it is not medical advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fingers crossed xo

  • Citalopram 20mg - 40mg ~ approx 2010 - October 2015 (stopped over one week)
  • Parnate  20mg - 50mg and olazapine 5mg ~ Jan 2016 - May 2016 (ceased over 2 days) 
  • Lithium 450mg-900 mg and Thyroxin ~May 2016 - May 2017
  • Diazepam various doses (including PRN) ~ 2015 - 2017
  • Oxazepam various doses (including PRN) ~ May 2016 - June 2016
  • Lurasidone 20mg ~Mid May 2016 - Mid June 2016
  • Vortioxetine 10mg - 20mg ~ 6th June 2016 - 20th July 2016 (abruptly ceased)
  • Amitriptyline 200mg ~July 2016 - September 2016 (ceased over 1 week)
  • Nortriptyline  (dose ?) ~October 2016 ~ November 2016 (abruptly ceased)
  • Seroquel XR 100mg - 300mg ~ May 2016 - August 2017 (ceased over 3 weeks)
  • Escitalopram 10mg - 30mg ~ August 2016 - March 2017 (ceased over 2 weeks)
  • Bupropion 300mg ~ December 2016 - May 2017 (ceased over 1 week)
  • Clonazepam 1.5mg daily ~ July 2016 (started tapering May 2017 - September 2017 currently on 0.375mg..ie 0.125mg TDS) 27th May 2018 5% 0.357mg (possible paradoxical reaction - see benzo thread)  28th June 5% 0.337mg, 28th July 10% 0.303mg, 12th September10% 0.272mg, 18th September reinstated 10% due to intolerable WD 0.303mg, 1st October-11th Oct 10% (1% reduction over 10 days) 0.272mg, 22nd October clonazepam ceased crossed over 10mg diazepam
  •  Dexamphatamine 20mg ~ December 2016 (started tapering October 2017 - tapered 1.25mg 4th Dec 2017, 1.25mg 19th Dec 2017 6.25mg, Speed up decrease due to major interaction between Dex and fluoxetine- ref to thread 10% 17th Feb 2018 5.63mg, 10% 21st Feb 2018 5.1mg, 10% 26th Feb 2018 4.5mg 10% 28th Feb 4.1mg, 10% 1st March 3.7mg, 10% 5th March 3.3mg, 10% 8th March 3mg, 10% 10th March 2.7mg, 10% 12th March 2.4mg, 10% 14th March 2.16mg, 10% 16th March 1.94mg, 10% 18th March 1.74mg, 10% 20th March 1.57mg, 10% 21st March 1.41mg, 10% 22nd March 1.26mg, 10% 23rd March 1.13mg, 10% 24th March 1.01mg, 10% 25th March 0.9mg, 10% 27th March 0.81mg, 10% 29th March 0.73mg, 10% 31st March 0.66mg, 10% 2nd April 0.59mg , 10% 4th April 0.53mg, 10% 6th April 0.47mg, 10% 8th April 0.42mg, 10%10th April 0.37mg, 11th April 0.2mg, 12th April 0.1mg (last dose) OFF! 
  • Fluoxetine 40mg ~December 2016 -.31 Jan 2018 reduced to 20mg (probable serotonin toxicity) 10th March 2020 10mg, 7th April 9mg, 1st May 8.5mg, 15th May 8.0mg, 27th May 7.5mg, 8th Sept 7.2mg, 2nd Oct 7mg, 19th Oct 6.8mg, 28th Oct 6.6mg, 5th Nov 6.4mg, 26th Nov 6mg, 2nd April 2021 5.9mg, 9th April 5.8mg, 19th April 5.75mg, 22nd April 5.7mg, 26th April 5.65mg,28th April 5.6mg, 1st May 5.5mg, 4th May 4.45mg, 7th May 4.4mg, 10th May 4.35mg
  • Diazepam 10mg ~ 22nd Oct 2018, 10th November 8mg, 14th Nov 7mg, 8th December 6mg, 30th December 5mg (Nocte), 7th March 2019 4.5mg,14th March 4mg, 5th April 3.5mg, 9th April 3mg, 18th April 2.5mg,1st May 2mg, 17th May 1.75mg, 25th May 1.6mg, 4th June 1.59mg, 5th June 1.58mg, 6th June 1.57mg, 7th June 1.56mg, 8th June 1.55mg, 22nd June 1.4mg, 4th July 1.2mg, 16th July 1mg, 30th July 0.8mg, 13th Aug 0.6mg, 28th Aug 0.4mg, 10th Sept 0.2mg, 23rd Sept Off! 
  • SR Circadin 2mg (melatonin) 25th May - 20th June 
  • Zolpidem 10mg 25th May (7 tablets)
  • Supplements: Magnesium glycinate (soluble - sip throughout the day) 

 

"Whenever you feel yourself doubting how far you can go,  just remember how far you have come.  Remember everything you have faced, all the battles you have won, and all the fears you have overcome"    Unknown 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Downbutnotout
On 2/4/2018 at 7:36 PM, Hellbutrin said:

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice about something that I found online that REALLY scared me. I know that googling our symptoms related to withdrawal is not beneficial to our healing, but I stumbled on this information when I was trying to research foods that would help with receptor repair. It's related to anhedonia and it expresses that dopamine receptors can permanently down regulate and often times only have the ability to recycle themselves, so once they are damaged they are rendered useless. The only drug that I took was Wellbutrin and it's main mechanism of action works on dopamine so this really concerns me. This is the quote that I found that really freaks me out.

 

"Wellbutrin tricks the brain that it doesn't need to make dopamine, and dopamine is the only chemical in the brain that once it is damaged, you never get it back."

 

Can someone please provide me with reassurance and/or feedback on their experience with drugs that act on dopamine receptors and if they have experienced any change in their anhedonia/depression when they got more time behind them in withdrawal?

How does this follow with Effexor. Plus 25 years. I took buspar for 10 days and I’m afraid what it did. I also think lithium and prozac finished it off. I really felt it with the lithium. 

 

2001 Remeron , Celexa, prozac a week on lithium. 

2014 went off effexor and trazadone in 3 weeks. 

2014 zoloft (hyper reaction) put on effexor 75 mg. Was stable until 2017 

2017  Trazadone 50 mg (June) Effexor to 113 mg (2 weeks) Effexor 150 mg for a month . Took 75 mg until November. . Lithium 10 days, Lamactil 10 day  aug-nov15 ativan

October : Prozac bridge to get off 75 mg of effexor Used 10 mg of prozac. Stopped prozac 3 wk 

Dec 6, 7 Upped trazadone from 50 to 100 mg Did it for 3 days Stopped it

Dec 7 , Dec 8 Took prozac again 0.1 , 0.1, 0.6 stopped it

Dec 11 and Dec 12 upped it to 100 again

Dec 15 , 16,17 went back to 50 mg of trazadone

December 18 Began 3 beads of effexor  Dec 25 began 5 beads of effexor take 10 mg of omneprazole daily

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Marmot said:

Thanks for asking this question. I've been wondering that too but for dopamine and fatigue. I began getting worse recently when I started trying to be more productive. 

 

I got some hope from a close friend of mine who was on dexedrine (also dopaminergic) as prescribed for over 10 years. He quit it a couple of months ago and is doing well so far. He does drink a lot of coffee now though. I would like more success stories too...especially with WB.

Hi Marmot, 

 

This is pretty scary to me because I'm almost at 7 months and I haven't seen any change at all in my symptoms. Were you also taking Wellbutrin, and if so is that the only drug that you took?

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Kristine said:

This is food for thought.  I'm the same. Debilitating fatigue. Have to lie down after simple tasks...or no tasks at all. I was also on Wellbutrin 300mg (bupropion in my sig)...I'm sure the 20mg of dexamphetamine didn't help.  Currently rolling my eyes. K

It is, I would like more feedback on whether or not the down regulation doesn't reverse itself with time. If this is the case then I'm in SERIOUS trouble and I might have no other choice but to try to go back on the drugs. Which honestly, at this point, I don't think that is going to be an option. 

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

How does this follow with Effexor. Plus 25 years. I took buspar for 10 days and I’m afraid what it did. I also think lithium and prozac finished it off. I really felt it with the lithium. 

I'm honestly not sure. I was hoping that someone on a dopaminergic drug or SNRI could report some success in their recovery. I haven't had any fluctuation in my symptoms in the almost 7 months since I've been off, and I'm getting REALLY scared that I might have permanently down regulated my receptors leading to constant anhedonia/emotional bluntness and fatigue. If this is the case I don't really see any point to living like this. The depression makes living hell on earth, and the emotional bluntness makes life not worth living. 

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd really appreciate some moderator feedback on this question. Is there any empirical evidence that those of us on SNRIs can have our dopamine receptors regenerate?

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Altostrata changed the title to The role of dopamine in antidepressant withdrawal
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy