Merrymary: Tapering clonazepam and want to taper remeron also

[Merrymary]

Moderator note:  link to Merrymary's benzo thread - Merrymary: Tapering clonazepam and want to start remeron taper

 

Hello, I'm from Québec, so my langage si french...I hope to write in a proper english and sorry if I don't do so...

 

So I've been tapering 1mg of clonazepam since september...I'm down to 0,19 mg...trough the course of my withdrawal I took seroquel for 6 weeks from 12,5 to 3,5... I didn't like the feeling and found it was bad with the gaba. So I switched to remeron at first 15 mg then to 7,5 mg for the last six weeks...at first I was sleeping well than in the last month I began to have insomnia...and the more it goes the less it's effective...also I'm feeling very dizzy and tired...I've been taking it for a total of 2 and a half month...I don't know what to do now...I'm afraid of being stuck with the remeron and I still have a long taper of klonopin ahead of me...

 

Do I have to do a long  taper since I am a short time user...and also maybe remeron is masking some of the effects of the  withdrawal from clonazepam...

 

I know now that remeron was a bad choice...

 

Thank you for your precious support

 

 

 

•  

Edited February 25, 2018 by Shep
added link to benzo forum thread

[Altostrata]

Welcome, MerryMary.

 

The sleep problems may be a withdrawal symptom from the clonazepam reduction. If I were you, I would stop tapering clonazepam for a while, let your nervous system settle down.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, at what dosages? Do you have any other symptoms beside the sleep difficulties?

[Merrymary]

Thank you...I've been following your advice and it helped. 

 

I'm sorry for taking so long to answer. I really appreciate your support.

 

I have contacted a compound pharmacy for a liquid version of mirtazapine since it seems like I have a very long taper in front of me ( also tapering clonazepam). I know some say it is better to withdraw from benzo first than the antidepressant, but I feel that if I go very slow with both, it will be ok. 

 

What do you think?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Merrymary and welcome from me too,

 

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SA does not recommend tapering 2 drugs at the same time.  If you develop withdrawal symptoms you will not know which one is causing it so will not know which one to updose (if necessary) which means you would probably updose both which in the long run may end up taking you longer to get off your drugs.  From the large number of experiences on this site slow and steady seems to be the best approach.

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?
If you're not having an adverse reaction from the other medications, taper the most activating drug first. This is usually an antidepressant or stimulant (ADHD drug).

[Merrymary]

Hi...like I wrote before my english is not so good...so please be gentle with me...

 

I have been reading a lot  of posts here...this is such a nice and caring commnunity...

 

Since all of this klonopin mess, my life is not the same...I usually am a teacher...I' m not working cause I'm too sick from the tapering...I'm half a girlfriend and half a mother...my family suffers from all this...

 

I took remeron cause I was afraid of not sleeping well and wanted to lessened the anxiety from the taper...

 

At first my taper was messed by bad advice from doctors and pharmacists...then I followed the Ashton Manual and a lot of informations from all the support groups.

 

Now I am more stable...but I now understand the mess I am in with the remeron added. Big mistake...Should of learned how to live with the withdrawal symptoms...which are still pretty bad...

 

I know it's not recommanded to taper both...but If it's possible to do at a very slow rate, I would like to try.

 

The remeron is causing me a lot of dizziness, blurred vision, balance problems and low energy. Also I feel like a zombie most of the time.

 

I would like to slowly get from 7,5mg to 3,5 mg to see if I feel less sedated all day.

 

I read the signature of a staff member here, Rhiannon, who got more functionnal from a multitaper.

 

I'm looking for some of your wisdom, experience and tips to help me get a bit better...or  a lot more if it is possible in this situation!!!

 

[ChessieCat]

On 10/02/2018 at 4:19 PM, Altostrata said:

Welcome, MerryMary.

 

The sleep problems may be a withdrawal symptom from the clonazepam reduction. If I were you, I would stop tapering clonazepam for a while, let your nervous system settle down.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, at what dosages? Do you have any other symptoms beside the sleep difficulties?

 

Alto is the site's founder.

 

She has asked:  What times of day do you take your drugs, at what dosages?

 

Please answer her question.

[Merrymary]

Ho sorry...I forgot to answer,

 

I take both of them at bedtime...7,5 mg mirtazapine and 0,18 clonazepam.

[Merrymary]

Sometimes I feel like I have Chronic fatigue...cause my energy is low and If I exercice, I have to rest after...even if it's a gentle yoga...

 

Thank you for your support it means a lot in this situation.

[Gridley]

Fatigue and low energy are common withdrawal symptoms.   

PDF Monthly List of Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms to Print & PDF Monthly List BLANK to Print

[Merrymary]

Thank you Gridley.

 

Since I have slowed my taper, anxiety is much lower,  I sleep better but the fatigue is crushing...

 

I see you are also tapering a benzo. how are you doing?

[Gridley]

I'm holding on the benzo until I finish my Lexapro taper.  Then I will decide whether to taper the benzo next or the Imipramine.

 

I'm glad your anxiety is much lower.  That's a very good sign.

[Merrymary]

Yes It's more bearable to be sedated than anxious...

 

But stil...I want to be back to more functional if possible... I am 47 and would like to go back to Work  in september . I'm a teacher. So If I really hold or slow my taper would I feel better... 

 

Could I stop or reduce this deezy state I am in, almost constantly...

 

What is causing this...the benzo withdrawal, the remeron or both of them? Only my csn knows and it's not telling me at l'est not clearly!!!

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

You are doing well with the slow taper.  I would continue with that.  You can also hold if you feel you are going too fast.  

 

It is hard to say what's causing the fatigue.  Your taper from 15mg Mirt to 7.5 was fast and could be a factor in your symptoms.  But you seem to be doing well, that's what's important.

[Merrymary]

Sorry for all the mistakes in my text. I have a french corrector and it's always suggesting some french words and most of them I correct...but some just slips...

 

Let say that I am kind of 70 percent...so not enough to be a mother, or a spouse or enough to be myself...and not a teacher definitely...

 

I don't want to complain... I want to go through this and be a whole New me...better I hope!!!

 

I went to 7,5 after trying 15 for a few days, maybe a week and that was 2 months ago...

 

So you're holding, how are you feeling in general?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gridley]

I'm holding the benzo and the Imipramine (tricyclic antidepressant) while I'm tapering the Lexapro 2 1/2% per week for four weeks, then holding for 2 weeks, then tapering again.  I've been feeling much better than 2 months ago and certainly better than a year ago.  Maybe it's that I'm getting lower in my Lexapro dosage.  My morning anxiety that really bothered me before is gone, my insomnia is better and I'm getting 6-8 hours sleep.  I too have fatigue and not a lot of motivation to do anything, but I have managed to do some gardening and minor house projects the last couple of weeks.  I still have anhedonia (no real pleasure in anything) and apathy but those are common symptoms, and I have read they will lift in time.

[Merrymary]

Hi Gridley,

 

I know how you feel...I would like to feel joy  and peace of mind again...I don't allow myself cause I feel like I'm waiting to feel better. I'm usually a chearfull person and I Try to fake it sometimes.

 

I would like to know, because nobody has answered yet, can I do a slow taper of the mirtazapine as the same time of my clonazepam taper...because I feel sedated all the Time and dizzy and so tired.

 

I would like to Come out of this brain fog state.

 

Thank you for your support

[Gridley]

We generally advise that you taper only one drug at a time, because if you have a problem, it would be difficult to tell which drug was causing it.   I would wait until you have finished the klonopin taper before starting the Mirt taper.  

 

You're down very low on the K -- congratulations.  A word of caution:  It is best to taper as low as possible before jumping.  If at all possible 0.1mg or smaller.  Those tiny doses are a pain to try and work with, but it will really pay off in the end.  Rhiannon, one of our moderators, wrote this a while back:

 

"Overall, at the lowest doses it's best to go very slowly, in my opinion. The upside of that approach is large: You can minimize the chance of going too fast, getting sick, having to reinstate and start over, and all the disruptions and misery that come with withdrawal. And the downside is very small: at such a low dose, the side effects and dangerous drug effects are minimal, and if you go slow enough to keep feeling good you'll already be enjoying many benefits of coming down to such a low dose so you won't be feeling the need to hurry.

 

So I would say, make those last cuts small and the breaks between them long. Take your time. I have seen many many people get into trouble and fail tapers because of going too fast at the end, but I've never seen anyone fail by going too slow.

 

Let me add, as someone tapering, I know this is easier said than done! You get close to that finish line and you want to rush there. But this is really the time when going slow will give you the maximum benefit for the minimum price."

 

 

[Merrymary]

Thank you...for supporting and helping. 

 

I Will go slow...I'm learning...

 

Do you have a clue for that crushing fatigue. Would holding help?

[Gridley]

Either or both of your drugs could be causing the problem.  One of Mirt's common side effects is the fatigue you describe.  Klonopin also has fatigue as a side effect.  Although you are at a very low dose, it could be having that effect.  

 

Regarding holding, my best guess is if you held you would just be continuing the current situation.  Definitely do not rush anything.  Just continue with your slow K taper.  Once you're off K,  then you'll be able to get to the more likely fatigue villain, the Mirt.  Again, please don't be tempted to rush.  Fatigue is unpleasant, I know (I have it) but you are doing so well, please continue your slow cautious successful course.

[Merrymary]

I was wishing that by holding I would feel better...that my csn would heal a bit...

 

I am afraid I went too fast and compromised my health. Do I need to updose to feel better...I don't want to be disabled for Life after that...I am not working cause I am too tired to do so...and also other symptoms are too difficult to be functional most of the Time...

 

I want to go slow for now on to avoid acute and a long post withdrawal after...I know no one Can   predict all this, but I want to have the Best chances to succeed...

 

So can I heal while tapering if I go slow...or is it too late and I have already done some damages...

 

Thank you for your wisdom on all this...I'm sorry if I seems so stressed but I feel I have to take the Best decisions and this game is a tricky one to play.

[Gridley]

No, you  have done no irreparable damage.  The brain is amazingly good at repairing itself.  You did not compromise your health.  I repeat, you have done no irreparable damage.

 

Healing is the main focus now, not working.

 

Hold on the Mirt  at 7.5.  You will have to endure to the fatigue for a while. You need to let your system adjust to the new dosage.   

 

Yes, it is a tricky game.  Yes, you can heal if you go slow.  

 

I suggest you hold on the K taper for a couple of weeks, and then let's see how you are feeling before doing anything.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You might find these topics helpful:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization
 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos

[Merrymary]

Thank you so much...

 

Your support and advices means a lot.

 

Gridley you made me feel at peace. And that is big! Taking some of your Time to help others will give you Many thanks  from Life.

 

Chessie cat, I will take Time to read and learn, because we have to learn from all this.

 

I don't know if I make any sense in english because I think in french and translate.

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, Merrymary said:

I don't know if I make any sense in english because I think in french and translate.

 

You are doing very well with your English.

[Merrymary]

Thank you Chessie cat...you're so sweet!

[Merrymary]

Hi,

 

I'm tapering clonazepam and taking remeron at 7,5mg since three months...

 

At first I thought that I was only dizzy but I am afraid I'm having some visual problems too.

 

I don't want to have permanent damages.
 

 

Thank you for sharing your experience

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Merrymary,

 

I moved you now post to your Intro topic.  Each member has only 1 Intro topic where they can ask questions and journal their progress.

 

There are many existing topics on this site.  I use a search engine (google) and include survivingantidepressants.org in my search term.  Eg survivingantidepressants.org vision

 

This is the link to the topic I found.  Click on the upward pointing arrow of the box below:

 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by ChessieCat
updated link

[Merrymary]

Good morning,

 

I am done with the clonazapam since  10 days, after a 14 months taper.

 

The mirtazapine 7,5 mg always seemed to make me sicker so I felt I had to lower it.

 

I know this isn't recommanded but for the last 8 months I also tapered the Mirtazapine from 7,5 to 3,75...yes too fast...but tapering for years is something that would make me feel hopeless.

 

I took 0,1 mg out every week...I did suffer from insomnia sometimes sleeping less, and a few sleepless nights, maybe 6 during the hole Time...

 

Since a week, out of despair I speeded my taper...foolish of me...I was having such bad depression and was desperate...

 

So instead of going from 4,2 to 4,1...I went from 4, 2 to 4,0...then two days after 4,0 to 3,75... I wanted to see If I could handle it...obviously not...I am now sleeping one night 8 Hours and the other night 2-3 hours...I do feel the heavy sedation at the beginning of the night for a good two hours...but then feel awake until 4 a.m. whenI finally get some sleep...

 

And last night, I thought of updosing back to 4,1 but made a mistake and updosed to 4,5...

 

Altostrata can you help me get my sleep back...should I updose and hold? 

 

Thank you for your precious time

 

[Merrymary]

I updosed to 4 mg...

[Altostrata]

Hello, Merrymary. Since you are only recently off clonazepam, if I were you, I'd take 4mg mirtazapine for a couple of months, don't make any more drug changes.

 

What is your sleep pattern now? Has the fatigue changed?

[Merrymary]

Thank you,

 

Not good...I slept 1-2 Hours for the two last nights! 

 

You ou think that mirt is going paradoxal because the clonazepam is getting out of my system!!!

 

Hope to stabilise and get my sleep back!

 

 

[Merrymary]

And sorry for the pm...I didn't see you had already answered!

[Altostrata]

Right now, I don't think the mirtazpine has gone paradoxical. But you have made many drug changes recently, which upset your nervous system, and you need to let your nervous system settle down.

 

Over the next 10 days, you should see some calming. Please let us know how you are doing.

[ChessieCat]

It's a good idea to keep daily notes on paper so you can be objective about your symptoms.  This is an example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by ChessieCat

[Frogie]