92sharks: introduction

[Carmie]

Hi sharks92, 

 

How are you doing? How is your anxiety?🧡

[92sharks]

@CarmieThank you for checking in! I'm doing pretty well. I've held at 10 beads of Effexor since early August. October has been a much better month re: wd symptoms than Aug & Sept. I was thinking that I feel good enough to try dropping to 9 beads and see what happens on Nov. 1, but that is an emotional decision of wanting to keep tapering. My intellect tells me to wait until January, after the holidays. All that I read and all of the encouragement I give others on SA is to go SLOWLY. It won't hurt to wait an additional two months on 10 beads, but it may hurt to drop. The last two and 1/2 months have been tough mostly with emotional symptoms, fatigue, and anhedonia. And there was anxiety. Thank goodness that has eased a lot. If another two months will see additional easing of these other wd issues, there is no reason to hurry ahead. I so appreciate you asking me, Carmie, because writing this down has helped me to decide to slow down. It is so weird that on as low a dose as I must be on (about 3-4mg), I still have to hold. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[ChessieCat]

I think holding until after the Christmas and New Year holidays is a very good idea.

 

Making the decision now to hold until a certain time also means that you will not spend the time umming and ahhing all that time.

 

It is also good to have times during a taper when you feel improvement to just enjoy the time of feeling better than you have done.  I think it can help to reduce the possibility of becoming battle weary.

 

Put tapering on the back burner and enjoy the festive season.

[92sharks]

@ChessieCatThank you for your support! It is so obvious that I am slogging through some wd symptoms, so why would I think it is ok to make another drop? We just can't seem to help ourselves from wanting to continue tapering, huh?

 

I've been thinking about you a lot because I knew your plans were to jump off this month. I've been reading about your cholesterol and blood sugar issues. You certainly are making positive changes and advocating for yourself. You should be very proud! I think you are wise to be respectful of what you're doing at the moment and that maybe this very minute isn't the right time to jump off. You're in control and you're so close. The right time is just around the corner.

 

Here's to not thinking about wd every darn day! ❤️

[Carmie]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:34 PM, 92sharks said:

@CarmieThank you for checking in! I'm doing pretty well. I've held at 10 beads of Effexor since early August. October has been a much better month re: wd symptoms than Aug & Sept. I was thinking that I feel good enough to try dropping to 9 beads and see what happens on Nov. 1, but that is an emotional decision of wanting to keep tapering. My intellect tells me to wait until January, after the holidays. All that I read and all of the encouragement I give others on SA is to go SLOWLY. It won't hurt to wait an additional two months on 10 beads, but it may hurt to drop. The last two and 1/2 months have been tough mostly with emotional symptoms, fatigue, and anhedonia. And there was anxiety. Thank goodness that has eased a lot. If another two months will see additional easing of these other wd issues, there is no reason to hurry ahead. I so appreciate you asking me, Carmie, because writing this down has helped me to decide to slow down. It is so weird that on as low a dose as I must be on (about 3-4mg), I still have to hold. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Hi 92sharks, 

 

Sorry I haven’t replied earlier. I’m glad that writing down your thoughts has helped you to decide to slow down. I’m going really slow myself, with really long holds. 
 

I’m glad your anxiety has eased a bit. How are you doing today?🧡

[92sharks]

Hi @CarmieThank you for your kind thoughts and for asking how I'm doing. I'm doing pretty well. A bit of an emotional roller coaster. I wish there was a magic box in which to place my mind at times to make it stop with the anxiety. It would be a very nice break. I try to find a place in my mind to send my thoughts and anxiety to shut them down for a while, a little black corner, but I haven't found it. As I suspect, calming my mind and thoughts has to do with external activities such as exercising, meditating, "doing" things to help dispel the anxiety from ever getting a foot hold.  But it is very difficult for me to make myself do things. I know everyone must have this difficulty, but trying to make myself "do" things is SO hard. I have fallen off of the wagon on meditating and exercising and it seems like such an uphill battle to get myself to resume. It isn't that hard to really do them, it is the mind games of thinking how hard and big it will be. I've considered that the antidepressants might not be a bad idea to try again in hopes they would suppress this stuff. But I KNOW that isn't true because all of the same was present before tapering. It just seems enticing to pop a pill to make this stuff go away which is why I started antidepressants in the first place. What I think to be true is that the problems I've had are from deep seated history and that without the antidepressants I am much more aware of them. I am also much more aware that I need to do something about them. I had to stop being on SA again because it is very painful to read everyone's struggle and I then stay focused on mine. I care very much about the people that post, and wish I was strong enough to separate their struggles from mine. But at this time, I am not strong enough. I will continue to try tapering but it is in the far background of my life and I will see how the next year goes to try to get off of these measly 10 beads. I wish you health. love, and support. ❤️

[Carmie]

On 11/27/2021 at 11:13 AM, 92sharks said:

Hi @CarmieThank you for your kind thoughts and for asking how I'm doing. I'm doing pretty well. A bit of an emotional roller coaster. I wish there was a magic box in which to place my mind at times to make it stop with the anxiety. It would be a very nice break. I try to find a place in my mind to send my thoughts and anxiety to shut them down for a while, a little black corner, but I haven't found it. As I suspect, calming my mind and thoughts has to do with external activities such as exercising, meditating, "doing" things to help dispel the anxiety from ever getting a foot hold.  But it is very difficult for me to make myself do things. I know everyone must have this difficulty, but trying to make myself "do" things is SO hard. I have fallen off of the wagon on meditating and exercising and it seems like such an uphill battle to get myself to resume. It isn't that hard to really do them, it is the mind games of thinking how hard and big it will be. I've considered that the antidepressants might not be a bad idea to try again in hopes they would suppress this stuff. But I KNOW that isn't true because all of the same was present before tapering. It just seems enticing to pop a pill to make this stuff go away which is why I started antidepressants in the first place. What I think to be true is that the problems I've had are from deep seated history and that without the antidepressants I am much more aware of them. I am also much more aware that I need to do something about them. I had to stop being on SA again because it is very painful to read everyone's struggle and I then stay focused on mine. I care very much about the people that post, and wish I was strong enough to separate their struggles from mine. But at this time, I am not strong enough. I will continue to try tapering but it is in the far background of my life and I will see how the next year goes to try to get off of these measly 10 beads. I wish you health. love, and support. ❤️

Yes, I understand how you feel about not wanting to do things 92sharks, 

 

We can quite easily go into freeze mode because everything seems so overwhelming. I seem to keep going into freeze mode a lot lately due to severe health problems. I’m just in survival mode a lot. 

Antidepressants definitely aren’t a solution to dealing with past trauma, which I’m gathering you mean by deep seated history. I hope you will find something that can help you deal with your past. Emotions and trauma are stored in one’s body and we need to find a way to release them. We are all works in progress. 
 

I understand too that this site can be triggering and it can be painful reading everyone’s sad stories, I had a break from here as well. At the same time though, it’s good to have support from others that know how hard withdrawals are. Unless someone has experienced withdrawals they wouldn’t have a clue how severe it gets. It’s the same with anything I guess, if we haven’t experienced it, we don’t know what someone is going through. 
 

Sending you hugs and hoping the next year goes well for you🤗

[LarryS]

@92sharks Again, thanks for taking an interest in my journey.  We are both in the end game.

I have just been reading posts by four other people who have started their own introductions and updates blog here on S.A.  I have seen that you have posted on their blogs and been encouraging to them with good advice.  But I see very few posts on your own introductions and updates blog.  I wonder why.

You have been feeling better lately and that is very good.

Since I recently have experience anxiety, I can now better relate to what that is all about and better sympathize for what you are going through.  My eldest daughter has shared more with me about her ongoing anxiety since I have shared with her about my anxiety experience.  People open up when they find you share their experiences.  I am glad I can now better understand anxiety.  I’m also grateful that I am not experiencing anxiety currently.

Today is new year's eve, December 31, 2021.  You have made it through the holidays.  Will you do a reduction in dose?

Hanging in there with you.  Happy New Year!

[92sharks]

@LarrySHi, Larry! What a nice surprise to read your thoughtful post to me. I read your last couple of posts and am sorry about your anxiety (glad it is better), and incredibly impressed by what all you have done and set in motion for yourself. I think the thing that benefits me is communicating with others in any capacity. I struggle terribly with motivation/anhedonia. Anxiety comes and goes. It is a huge relief when it "goes". Thank you again for reaching out. I don't post on my page much. I think it is mostly because I have never understood how to navigate this forum. 🙄 I see posts from others and respond to them. I don't often ask for help; I just converse with others as I read their posts. And a couple of months ago, I was too preoccupied with tapering, how badly I was feeling emotionally, and how I was reminded constantly of what a struggle everyone else was having, too. I decided to stop reading SA for a while. But I am really glad that you contacted me.

 

I did survive the holidays. Unfortunately, on Dec.17 I experienced 3 tias (transient ischemic attacks....mini strokes with no lasting effects). It has certainly made me feel unsure of myself and old. I am very fortunate there were no lasting effects and am now having several tests done and a work-up to see if a source of the vascular events can be found. I feel just fine and as the weeks go by I am feeling more confident that I won't keel over at any moment. As with all bad things there are silver linings. On Dec 14th my family got together in SF for dinner. Something we hadn't done in 2 years and was pretty spur of the moment. It was a wonderful and fun and in hindsight, it was a reminder of how life can change in a moment, so these times are so important. On the 17th when I had the tias, I witnessed my 3 children and my husband coordinate with one another and come together in an instant when there was an emergency and the family was in need. It made me see how they are with one another and what wonderful loving adults they are, as well as how strong and competent they are. It was indeed a sliver lining and has given me peace that they will come together to support one another and be alright in future difficult times. It sounds so morbid, but it was a gift of a glimpse into the future and I am so proud of them. 

 

I have decided I am going to resume tapering the Effexor, but maybe wait until Feb. It can't be doing ANYTHING, obviously and hasn't been for a long time. Only the physical dependence remains. I definitely have moved tapering to the background and will probably take most of the year to get off. I have been terribly depressed, but I think it is from post holiday blahs, lots of rain and cloudy days, maybe seasonal affective disorder, and my vascular event and feeling old and vulnerable. I also have NOT been active and really need to get back to meditating and exercising. The pandemic is so tiresome and restrictive. But, believe me with this ongoing anhedonia and depression I sure have wanted to go back up on my Effexor dose, switch to a new medication, or do SOMETHING to get relief. You know you feel bad when after years of tapering and determination to get off of ADs that you'd give it up in a second to feel better. If I could be certain that going up to a therapeutic dose of Effexor would take away how bad I feel emotionally I'd take it and never look back. I just don't think that ADs are the answer. I read about magnets, ketamine, mushrooms, psychedelics, ECT, etc as treatment for resistant depression. However, I think if you follow most treatment paths one has to have tried several ADs without success to then seek these other treatments. (I don't know if this is true). And I sure don't want to try a bunch of different ADs! The main thing that I think I need to do is just start! I need to find a therapist, and get started with activity, exercise, etc. I have lost any sense of hope and that is so damn troubling. I used to have hope. I don't think it is permanent, but it is pervasive at the moment. Anhedonia and hopelessness are the worst symptoms for me.

 

You certainly have a difficult situation and life, Larry. You are amazing for the energy and attitude that you have. It seems like you are on the right track for activities and associations that you have planned. It is incredibly destabilizing and sad for you to be a caregiver and be losing your wife to dementia. Life can throw such pain and sadness in our path. You do need other people in your life to talk with and share yourself with at this time. I'm glad that you have your daughter. It will benefit both of you to lean on one another. I'm also glad you are organizing relief for you and planning to attend support groups and see a therapist. I think everything you are doing will help ease your anxiety. Sharing what you are going through and asking for help is so very, very important. Put the tapering in the background. It is so minuscule of a dose and issue right now that it isn't worth any of your time or energy. But listen to who is advising you! ha! I think you have gone back up to 7.3mg, yes? In my amateur experience, I would say stay where you are for at least 6 months and reassess how you're feeling then. Let the things you are planning to begin to take affect. And see where your life takes you over the next few months. I think your pain must have a lot to do with how you feel. Chronic pain is awful. If you have access, maybe try acupuncture for a few weeks and see if there is any help with that. You can ask your acupuncturist for assistance with stress and emotional support, as well. You certainly need that along with any benefit from your chronic pain. I think anxiety rears its head when we don't know where to turn for help and connection; when we feel faulty, unsure, or alone. The voice in our head can be so loud, negative, and mean. I find it very ugly and disturbing, yet I let it run my life because it feels true and when I don't feel as strong it is hard to fight it. It paralyzes me, so I spend so much of my life on the couch. It is very hard for me to do the things that I need to do to help myself. I can easily do for other people, but for myself it doesn't feel worth it. That is why I think there is latent childhood neglect/trauma in my history. I think it is woven into my being and stuck in my body. Also, now that it is just me and my husband at home I have much more time to think and reflect. I'm glad we're are on the verge of a new year beginning. It is a good time to start some new small habits to change the trajectory of the last few awful months. I apologize about sending such a pity of a post. This is why I don't post about myself much. I have much to be grateful for and am so very, very fortunate and lucky. But I chose to say "yeah, but blah, blah, blah..." One of the habits that I need to change. 🥴

 

Many thanks for your post and inquiry about me, Larry. Wishing you and your family a Very Happy New Year!! 🥳❤️

[LarryS]

@92sharks Well look who is finally opening up and expressing how they feel.  I'm very happy you have taken this opportunity to start sharing where you are at in your own feelings.  This alone has been therapeutic for you, I am sure.  I want to express more, but I also want to be very thoughtful, before I say more.  I will get back to you, hopefully soon.

Today is truly "Happy New Year" for you.  Hang in there.  Continue to dwell on how blessed you are with family.

[92sharks]

@LarrySI have no problem opening up or expressing how I feel. Just ask my family! 😂 I have a lot to say, but I try not to do so without being asked. Since you have read a lot of my posts to others, you see that I'm not all that successful. I don't have much self control when it comes to concise explanations. All one has to do is "pull my string" and off I go! 😜 No further response needed to my post yesterday. Happy New Year, Larry! 

[LarryS]

@92sharks

I hope I have not offended you.  I have an idea of how to help you, if your ok with that.  Up to now I have left all help up to the moderators.  But they are busy, and I know they have not addressed the issue that I have identified for further discussion with you.

I believe I know why you previously had difficulty dropping your dose.  Tapering from the initial high dose range into the lower ranges is the more forgiving part of the process.

We are both at a pivotal point in the tapering process. 

We both need to carefully consider a refining of our methodology for tapering.

Are you interested, or shall I stop here?

[92sharks]

@LarrySAbsolutely, you did not offend me! I assure you. As you know, it is often difficult to interpret tone and nuance in reading text. I promise to tell you if you offend me. 👍🏼😃 I am very happy to listen and learn. I appreciate that we are I the same boat. I will say that I am not one to weigh, measure, or make a liquid. I don't think I want to bother. I am planning to drop a bead and wait and wait and wait, then drop another. As depressed as I've been I am still of the mind that I am ready to drop a bead because I've waited 6 months (and I've had time to forget how yucky wd can feel). I don't think wd or Effexor has much to do with how I'm feeling because it is such a small dose and I've been sitting at it for such a long time. I could be wrong.... However, I promised my primary care MD that I wouldn't make any changes for a while due to the tias that I had. I don't believe he or I think it would make any difference, but we're just trying to keep things constant. I think I remember reading a post of yours a few moths ago explaining how you were tapering and it seemed quite complicated to me. I don't want you to spend too much of your time explaining if I'm just going to poo-poo it for my simple approach. But, yes, I am interested. Many thanks, Larry! 

[LarryS]

@92sharks  Very good.  I prefer to be efficient, but thorough.  And I will not poo poo your method.  After all, we are all unique individuals.  But I may give you something to think about.

 

I would like to first verify what you are doing, since I do not have a lot of clues from your introduction topic.

1.  Do you use name brand Effexor extended-release capsules with beads?

2.  Are the beads all about the same size, or do they have a noticeable variation in size.

3.  If the beads vary in size, would it be possible to divide them up into large, medium and small beads?

4.  Describe your proposed process for tapering from this point downward.

5.  How long has it been since you read the entire first post of how to taper off Effexor by Altostrata?

 

Like you, I often think that I am on such a low dose now, why can't I just jump off and be done with it.  But frankly, I'm too afraid to just jump because the moderator leaders say I will regret it.  So, I keep remembering the mantra, slow is the way to go.  Forget about how long it takes.

 

I am on this website because I am trying to learn from those who have already paid the price to get to zero on their drug.  My goal is to avoid pitfalls and bad symptoms that come from making incorrect assumptions about how to taper.

 

I wouldn't mind being more supportive, but my confidence to do so is lacking.  I'm still learning myself.

 

I certainly want to avoid giving any "out of this world" incorrect advice.

[92sharks]

@LarrySHey, Larry! Thanks for your questions.

 

1) I use TEVA generic Venlafaxine XR 37.5mg capsules. In all of the caps that I've used to taper there have been roughly the number of beads as the cap mg dose states.

 

2) There are variations in the sizes of the beads.

 

3) I've always discarded the tiniest beads and pieces of coating I sometimes find. There aren't enough of the tiniest beads to save, really. I find them only once every couple of capsules. I don't even know if there is any medication in these tiniest of beads. As far as larger and medium sized beads, I might could distinguish them. I think my best bet is to begin to discard the largest of the beads and try to stick to the medium sized ones.

 

4) I went from 11 beads to 10 beads 6 months ago. My plan HAD been to hold for 3 months, then drop another bead. However, when it came time that I felt I could drop it was the beginning of November. I decided to hold during the holidays because the holidays are a time for me to freak out, become an unsuccessful perfectionist, beat myself up, be stressed out and stress out everyone around me, exhaust myself, not enjoy the process, etc, etc. (Yep, the tias could possibly have been triggered by my behavior and anxiety over the holidays....time will tell). SO, once I decide to drop to 9 beads in a month or two, if that's what I do, I will drop to 9 beads and plan to sit there for 3 months, then see how I feel as far as dropping to 8 beads. The unknown part is how I will react to dropping from 10 to 9 beads.

 

5) I went back and read a lot of what Altostrata wrote about tapering Effexor and some of the comments. I am hoping that I don't have to resort to any method other than dropping beads. I can't imagine having to make a liquid, take some liquid and some beads, switch from XR to regular release Effexor and taking multiple times a day, or any other method. I don't think they're wrong or unhelpful, I just don't want to have to mess with them.

 

Waiting longer between drops means I don't have to do anything except give my CNS time to adjust. Time will tell if I can continue to drop XR beads without too much wd or distress or if I eventually have to resort to some of the other suggested methods to drop only 10%. I did read that by the time we get to 9 beads we are at the point of making drops of more than 10% by dropping a single bead. It is hard to believe that at this amount this drug can still have this effect. One thing I believe is dropping too frequently does catch up to you at some point. I went from 60 beads to 10 beads in a year. In hindsight, that was too fast. I'm glad that's in the past and I am where I am so that I am that much closer to being off. I do have trepidation dropping to 9 beads because it is a complete unknown if there will be symptoms and how long they will last. My hope is that I will go back to not noticing much. The best scenario is that it takes 2 more years (🤷🏼‍♀️) and I don't notice anything. It is a complete mystery how it will go or if I get there. If I have symptoms by dropping 1 more bead, I will see how severe they are, and how long they last. I will then go from there on how to proceed. 

 

I think many of us that post are "still learning" and are just reaching out to support others that are suffering and feeling so desperate to get some relief. I think it is absolutely fine to share your experience and what has or hasn't worked for you. It is certainly fine to offer your story, and empathy, love, understanding, and support to others. The fact that you are at such a low dose of Effexor, coming from 225mg gives you some credibility that tapering Effexor can be done. For me is has been hard to find any success stories of folks getting off of Effexor and sharing their stories. As low of a dose as I am on, I still don't consider myself anything near to a success story....far from it. If I felt better, I might. But since my depression is prevalent right now and I need to put some self-care activities into play (again), I am back to wondering if I need antidepressants. I don't feel I can encourage anyone right now to keep tapering. A tough place to be. But because of experience that depression is such a cycle in my life that I'm not changing anything medication wise. My depression is not because of a chemical imbalance in my brain. I should never have depended on a pill to fix it. I wonder what treatments will be prevalent for depression in 100 years and will they be more successful than what we have now. 🙂❤️  

[LarryS]

@92sharks

Just want to let you know that I have been thinking a lot about a response.  I will eventually get something together.

I'm sure there is plenty of time before either of us take any action regarding our tapers.  Slow and steady.  🙂

[92sharks]

@LarrySIt's a pleasure talking with you, Larry. Only respond when you feel up to it. You have a lot on your plate. 🙂

[LarryS]

To 92sharks                                                                January 7, 2022

I recently informed you that I thought I knew why you had difficulty after your most recent dose reduction.  You responded that you would be opened to listening to what I had to say.

After you opened yourself to “advice” and “discussion,” a flood of thoughts has been occurring since.  I can not remember when I have ever had such a cascade of thoughts going through my mind.  I said that I wanted to be thoughtful in my response.  Well, I have definitely been thoughtful, but have not been able to capture anything in writing.  So, I need to get started in a response.

It eventually occurred to me that I have the same issues as you do.  Then I thought, who am I to be trying to help her, when I have the same issues?

The Holy Bible, Mathew 7: 3 – 5 says:  “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is a log in your own eye?  Your hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” 

I want to first be a better example. 

I know that having a well-defined ‘purpose’ is key in any endeavor. 

I plan on capturing my thoughts over on my own introductions blog.   I feel a need to summarize some things I have learned that has brought me to my current place in my antidepressant tapering journey.  I want to list the reasons I need to thoughtfully continue the journey.  I want to provide references for the things I have learned.  I want to develop a strong purpose that will propel me forward in the journey.  I want to keep exploring the available information on SurvivingAntidepresants.org, for it has a wealth of information.  I find that periodically re-reading certain key information, is not only a good reminder, but I also notice things said that stand out for my current place in my journey.  I believe that some of my writing will have potential for helping others.

People want to follow someone who has successfully done what they also want to accomplish.

I told the story of my experience with the psychiatrist I was assigned to after my mental hospital stay early on in my blog.  I told the psychiatrist that I wanted to get off the venlafaxine.  He told me that only 20 percent of people who try to get off an antidepressant succeed at doing so.  I told him that I was in the 20 percent who would succeed.  I had weaned off similar drugs before, so I believed strongly that I could do it again.  (I hadn’t experienced the difficulties of venlafaxine yet.)  He said OK, and dropped me 75 mg out of 225 mg.  Well, that did not go well at all, and I wrote him a two page treatise stating why he should not have dropped me so fast.  (I had started reading and learning from SurvivingAntidepressants.org)  I stated in the treatise that my hope was that this would help him to take a gentler approach with his future patients.  He told me he didn’t care because he was leaving his current position to work elsewhere.  People don’t want or accept advice.  They want a leader to show them the way.

There are already a lot of good leaders on this website.  I’m not one of them, yet.

Leaders are looking for people who are serious about wanting to do the same thing they have done.  People who are hungry enough, and humble enough to listen, and reproduce what has already worked well.

It will ultimately be up to you to define your purpose and goals for continuing on your journey.

Go ahead and follow me if you like.  You may learn something.  But also study some of the successful leaders that have already succeeded.

In conclusion, just to be clear, what I first recognized in your story, and then recognized in me, was that I needed to be willing to change, particularly since what I was doing, was not working, without side effects.  It is best to avoid side effects and be kind to our central nervous system.

My best wishes for you.  What ever you decide to do, I will not ridicule.

Your Fellow Survivor

LarryS

[LarryS]

@92sharks   It has been quite a while since you have written anything down on your topic.  How are you doing?

[92sharks]

Hi @LarryS, thanks for thinking of me and checking in. Not much to report. I suppose the good news is that tapering has certainly been in the background. I am still taking 10 beads as I have been since 8/21. Nothing that I can say that is going on with me could be attributed to WD, I don't think. I am planning to drop to 9 beads this week, and hold for several weeks or months. I am focused on so many other things about my health that getting off of Effexor isn't even on my list of concerns. I have way too much time on my hands and think way too much about things that don't matter. And I do not have the energy or inclination to do anything. I don't know if this is a result of the pandemic or is situational. I turned 65 and this past year I have spent 1/2 of the year on the couch, too tired to do anything and not willing to push myself to do things I don't want to do. I am depressed. I know I need to just start doing things whether I like it or not and I need to get active whether I like it or not. NOTHING sounds fun or like something I would like to do. NOTHING. This is the worst feeling in the world. I cannot continue living the life I am living because it is not really "living", it is just waiting. I need to get a therapist which is difficult, so I don't attempt to do so. I wonder if taking another antidepressant is a good idea. But, I was the same person when on Effexor and acted pretty much the same. I was just busier because I had children in the house and I couldn't lay around on the couch all day. I have spent time thinking if I could figure out what happened to me and why I'm like this, I would get better. I don't think that has worked. I am chronically tired, fatigued, apathetic, and negative. It has become who I am. I don't know if there is a physiological reason I am this way or if it is all psychological. But, I'm sick of it, my husband is sick of it, and my adult children are getting sick of it. I am a terrible example of living and aging. I am not suicidal. I just want to feel better. My plan is to begin to exercise for 30 minutes daily (whether I like it or not) and try to do things completely the opposite of how I do things now. The "live your life like you want to live it, not how you feel" approach. I've always done things how they felt and my feelings have pretty much betrayed me/my life. I know this post sounds so dramatic, but I am at a dramatic point. I do not do anything for myself that could be construed as self-care. I'm in a pickle and I'm so aware of it. I am very self-absorbed, as evident in this post. I've been waiting for this depression to pass and it has just moved in to stay. I don't know if the fatigue is depression or if there is a physiological reason. I would just like to take a pill to relieve the fatigue. Fatigue was my main complaint all the years I was taking Effexor and other antidepressants. The psychiatrists would just increase the dose, with no relief, then change medications. I have hypothyroidism and I've taken medication for that for 30 years prescribed by my general practitioner. I have an endocrinologist consult ordered and will see if they can help. I recently had a thyroid scan and I have very little thyroid gland. I am pursuing that option as a cause of this chronic fatigue. I have researched some about taking other thyroid medications, but it just makes me tired. I am sorry to be so long-winded about how I'm feeling, Larry. I suppose this is the place to be open. I see you are back down to around 6mg. I hope you are doing alright, and that your wife is well. ❤️❤️

 

[LarryS]

@92sharks  I'm thankful you have put the energy into replying.  Good for you.  I need to share more of what is happening to me also, on my blog.  My excuse is that I am very busy, and need to take care of a lot of other more important priorities.

 

As you know, I deal with constant fatigue myself.  It does make it harder for me to get motivated, but I actually do not have the luxury of not keeping busy in my care giving situation.  The only time I normally can feel energized is immediately after a gym work out.  But once in awhile I get blessed with a really good energy day.

 

I have made it a habit to tell the doctors and others that I am not depressed, I'm just fatigued.  I don't want to be labeled as depressed, even though it can accompany fatigue.  I will not accept any doctor putting me back on an antidepressant.

 

You have done the right thing by making a commitment to get some exercise.  To get the effect you want, you will need to get your heart rate up for a sustained 20 to 30 minutes.  Remember, your goal must be realistic.  I currently have a goal of getting down to the gym three times per week.  I don't always make it, but my goal is still strong.  On other days I have the option to ride our indoor bicycle or go for a leisurely walk.  Due to my back pain, I choose exercise that is very easy on my back.  I currently choose at the gym to first stretch, then bicycle for 30 minutes, swim 30 minutes and hot tub for 5 minutes at the end. 

 

Remember to choose exercise that you can feel good about and hopefully enjoy. 

 

Please report your progress here in two weeks.  

 

You Can Do It

[LarryS]

@92sharks   How are you doing?  I was hoping you would tell me you have been able to start some kind of exercise, even if it is walking, preferable outside in the fresh air.

 

You may be still stuck in pandemic fears and ways of thinking.  Time to move on and move out into society again.  Time to reboot.  Time to get moving.  I suggest going out to listen to some of your favorite music, in a live band situation.  My wife and I love to do this.  It is very stimulating and upbeat.

 

Your thyroid issue could certainly be involved with your fatigue.  My wife has a thyroid issue which she takes daily medication for.  Good, you are going to the endocrinologist to get it looked at.

 

Did you make the drop from 10 mg to 9 mg Effexor?  This would be a perfect 10% drop.  I personally believe you have held at 10 mg long enough.

 

If you don't want to use homemade liquid Effexor, perhaps you could change to a capsule that has consistently smaller beads such as the one I use.  I take Effexor generic Venlafaxine capsules produced by "Aurobindo Pharma USA, Inc., 279 Princeton-Hightstown Road, East Windsor, NJ 08520, made in India.  Their 75 mg capsule has an average 200 beads.  Therefore, when you divide 75 mg/ 200 beads you get the 0.375 mg actual effective ingredient value I list on my blog.

 

Sorry to hear you are so down and depressed.  I know it can be hard to get motivated. 

I highly recommend talking with a psychologist.  I did this for 3 months recently and found it helpful and supportive.

Hugs from LarryS.

[92sharks]

 Hi Larry, thank you for your kind responses. I am sorry that I am poor about responding. I appreciate your interest and that you keep in touch. I have not started exercising. I am seeing the endocrinologist today. I have heard from several therapists that they have availability, but I have not followed up, yet. There is a block inside me that does not allow me to move forward, try anything new, let loose, start doing anything. All I need to do is push through that block and just do what I need to do. There is nothing preventing me from doing things other than this block. It is not physical. It is mental. And I let it control me and prevent me from doing the things that would benefit me and help me to have a happier life. I can't believe there is a mental block that can keep me paralyzed, but it does. And I don't seem to want to do anything about it. I dropped to 9 beads two weeks ago and no side effects that I can tell. The only thing I am aware of is I was beginning to come out of my funk two weeks ago, feeling more confident and "energetic" and now I am back in it. I cannot believe it could be the Effexor. I do apologize that all I communicate is how badly I feel, but I won't do anything about it. I'm not certain there is anything to be done until I can figure out how to make myself do things to feel better or until I just do them. I'm aware that I will have to do them until I feel better, but I don't seem to have the internal power/motivation to start. It makes me think I don't want to feel better. It also makes me question strongly if I need to resume a higher dose of antidepressants or a different medication. Maybe the endocrinologist will have some insight. I am clearly, clearly depressed. But what to do about it until I can do the things needed to help with that? It is a vicious cycle that I can't seem to get myself out of. Thank you for the hugs, Larry. It means a lot to me. ❤️

[Carmie]

Hi Sharks, 

 

How have you been doing?🧡

[92sharks]

@CarmieHi Carmie! Thank you for asking! I'm doing alright. I am currently down to 7 beads of Effexor. About all I can say is I'm trying! But that is an improvement over the last posts I wrote above. I'm doing fine, really. Certainly no problems that I can attribute to tapering Effexor. It looks like I dropped to 9 beads around April 1. And I just dropped to 7 last week. So tapering is still incredibly slow. I'm planning to hold at a dose for 4 weeks, then drop a bead. Time will tell if even that is too big of a rush. That is much faster than I have been going over the past year. I would like to be off by the end of the year. At only 7 beads it seems entirely doable, but who the heck knows. Tapering is completely in the back of my mind. It is a small hassle making the capsules and taking them every day, but if that is the worst of it I am very grateful. I could easily go on with this at a slower pace and take longer holds and push the tapering into next year. At this point there is no question in my mind that I will be able to get off Effexor. I so appreciate the support and for you to check on me as @LarryS has done the last few months. How are you, Carmie?

[Carmie]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:57 PM, 92sharks said:

@CarmieHi Carmie! Thank you for asking! I'm doing alright. I am currently down to 7 beads of Effexor. About all I can say is I'm trying! But that is an improvement over the last posts I wrote above. I'm doing fine, really. Certainly no problems that I can attribute to tapering Effexor. It looks like I dropped to 9 beads around April 1. And I just dropped to 7 last week. So tapering is still incredibly slow. I'm planning to hold at a dose for 4 weeks, then drop a bead. Time will tell if even that is too big of a rush. That is much faster than I have been going over the past year. I would like to be off by the end of the year. At only 7 beads it seems entirely doable, but who the heck knows. Tapering is completely in the back of my mind. It is a small hassle making the capsules and taking them every day, but if that is the worst of it I am very grateful. I could easily go on with this at a slower pace and take longer holds and push the tapering into next year. At this point there is no question in my mind that I will be able to get off Effexor. I so appreciate the support and for you to check on me as @LarryS has done the last few months. How are you, Carmie?

So happy to see your latest update Sharks, 

 

You’re doing great! Best to keep going slow, don’t put an end date to it but continue to listen to your body. I’m going extremely slow myself with really long holds as my body doesn’t seem to tolerate any quicker at the moment. I’m tapering under one and a half percent and holding what seems like forever. 
 

Keep us updated with your continued taper, sending hugs🤗

[LarryS]

Good to hear you are doing fine and making progress on the taper.

[92sharks]

Hi @LarryS! I was going to contact you today to see how your are doing. Happy 4th! How are you doing and how is your wife? I hope both of you are doing well. ❤️

[rmce72a]

Hi Sharks, This is Rebecca. I just sent you a message and then checked your intro and found this. Sometimes I don't do the contacting people/commenting on this site correctly. Oh well. Hope you are ok.

[LarryS]

@92sharks How is the taper going at 7 beads?  It has been two months since I have heard about your progress.

 

I have re-read your past posts again to ensure I'm up to speed with how you are doing.  I know that you talk about the depression and anhedonia that you are experiencing.  Has there been any change on these symptoms?  I totally relate to how tough these symptoms are.

 

I feel for you. Hang in there.  I relate completely about wondering if being on such low doses of Effexor can really have that much effect on our bodies.  I think some people do experience side effects in each drop and some don't.  But how can we know unless we try our personal plans out.  What is the worst that could happen?  Go back one bead to the previous dose and wait some more.  That doesn't sound too bad to me.  I believe giving each dose drop time to settle in is important.  Listening to our own body is key.  All these we can do.

 

I am now following you.  I just realized that following people who I communicate with on surviving-antidepresants.org is the most excellent way to ensure one does not go for months without knowing someone you care about is communicating.

 

Hope to hear from you soon.  😎  Got to wear shades, after all, it is summertime.

[92sharks]

@LarrySHi Larry! Thank you for checking in. I was too down to respond a couple of days ago. I've been having a terrible time with depression for the last few weeks. I don't think it has anything to do with tapering. I was feeling pretty darn good, so my husband and I adopted an 8 week old puppy in July. He's wonderful, but of course we forgot what it is like to raise a puppy. He is a very good little guy, smart, responsive, easy to train, but he IS a puppy. We also were running a "pet-sitting service" for our three kids, so in addition to our 17 yr old cat and our new puppy, we have had an additional 2 cats for two months, another dog for two weeks, and now a different special-needs dog for a week. This has been going on since mid-July. My husband and I are exhausted. We finish tomorrow. It will just be our elderly cat and our puppy who is doing beautifully with house training, etc. Each additional animal that was staying with us wasn't difficult on its own, it was just the sheer number and differing needs of all of the pets while trying to train a puppy and prevent him from picking up their bad habits. Plus, 2 of our kids moved at the end of August. It has been a lot of juggling and focusing on others and not ourselves. It did occur to us that we have to protect ourselves even from these innocuous tasks because we are older and don't have the luxury of youth on our side. As much as we love our children and their pets, we physically can't help them as much as we would like. It takes too much out of us. I HATE admitting that and I struggle to come to terms with it. There is another person that I would like to be; someone with limitless energy. I beat myself up because I am not and cannot be that person. My depression feeds on that. My depression loves to make me feel less than.  Since July I have not gotten the number of hours of sleep that I need so that has definitely been a factor in not feeling well and the resulting depression. Today I do have hope that there will be some extra sleep in my future and some form of control over my life soon. I have tapered down to 6 beads (July 26). I was planning to drop a bead every 5 weeks or so, but am holding now because of the depression. I was exercising some on the treadmill up until the puppy came and have done nothing since because I've been too tired. I will get back to that pretty soon because it is so needed. I will probably hold at 6 beads through September to see if I can get back to exercising and more sleep and feeling better. Holding this long blows getting to zero by the end of the year, but as you know that isn't important. I haven't had any physical withdrawal symptoms that I am aware of such as vertigo, etc. I can't be sure that the depression isn't because of tapering, but I think the emotional and CNS overwhelm of the last few weeks certainly could be exacerbated by tapering. Thus the decision to hold another month. The heat here in NorCal valley has been awful. We stay in a lot because of so many days over 100 degrees this summer. Staying inside so much isn't good for the depression either. My apologies to you for complaining so much. It actually helps me to write down all of these things. It helps me organize my thoughts. However, I should probably just journal and spare you! You asked specifically about the anhedonia. Sadly, it is pretty much ever present. But as with the other symptoms, I do hope it will improve as my life gets simpler. There was some improvement prior to the puppy, thus adopting the puppy! 🙄 I don't know what's good for me! But my husband and I love having a dog in our lives and it should get easier as the puppy matures. 

 

I read that you had a TURP and subsequent infection(s). You really had a lot to cope with this past month! It seems like you have taken good care of yourself and advocated for what you need. I know it isn't easy. You should be proud of yourself. I hope you feel like you're making progress on getting back to pre-op form.  I was envious reading about being in Washington state. That is somewhere my husband and I have wanted to retire. We have loved watching shoes about the islands such as Whidbey, etc. Now that we are retired, we might be too tired to move! Take care, Larry! You are such a lovely person for checking in with me! It means so much. Thank you!

[LarryS]

@92sharks Congratulation on the new puppy.  We went through the tough new puppy stage two years ago.  Now it is pure love and so enjoyable to have our shiatzu 2-year-old puppy.  He gives my wife, who has mild dementia, so much happiness and sits on her lap a lot while she watches her daily game shows.

 

Did your children, who moved, stay in the general area?  

 

We can no longer physically help our children either, but we do our best to stay connected and show our loving care for them.  We have a standing Friday morning chat time with our married daughter who moved to Idaho about two years ago.  There is also plenty of texting and sharing of pictures.  We get to see and physically hug our son and daughter who are in the area.  🥰

 

I of course I relate to the feelings of getting older and having to put aside a lot of the things I used to love to do.  No wonder we seniors feel down at times (I avoid the word depression).  It is a time of loss and reflection on our life.

 

Good to hear the recent drop to 6 beads is not causing any vertigo, etc.  Like you, it is very hard to believe that dropping one bead has any noticeable effect on us.  It is just the old age progressing.  Ug. 

 

I remember the heat of summer, while I lived in Redding, CA for two years.  I did my last year of high school there.  I was young then and didn't have any problem with heat.  In fact, I remember the very nice beach on Whiskeytown Lake and the swimming.  Those where the days of youth and limitless energy.

 

It is time for me to prepare breakfast.

Enjoy the new puppy.  😎

[LarryS]

On 9/5/2022 at 12:29 PM, 92sharks said:

Today I do have hope that there will be some extra sleep in my future and some form of control over my life soon.

 

On 9/5/2022 at 12:29 PM, 92sharks said:

There was some improvement prior to the puppy, thus adopting the puppy! 🙄 I don't know what's good for me! But my husband and I love having a dog in our lives and it should get easier as the puppy matures. 

 

@92sharks  Good morning!  How are you doing?  How is your sleep?

I hope the puppy is bringing some entertainment, joy and pleasure into your life.  Our little "Pepe" dog is bringing so much into our life.