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firepink: No withdrawal for me?


firepink

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I started taking Bupropion HCL SR 150mg 2x/day in August 2015 to help get rid of brain fog, hyperfocusing on annoyances, and mild depression. It helped with all of those things, but I'd intended for it to be a temporary fix as I rode out a few things. I tried to get off of Bupropion in 2016 with the help of my doctor, but even after I told her that I'd been on a lower dose of Wellbutrin about 15 years ago and experienced awful withdrawal, she put me on a 'conservative' taper of 50mg every few weeks. That went badly and I went back on 150mg 2x/day. I then moved (several times) and haven't had access to any doctor that I would trust to help me taper. 

 

I hate being dependent on the medicine and knowing that I'll get horribly fatigued & foggy if I miss more than one pill. My heart rate has also been through the roof since I started the medicine, and that worries me. I don't know when I'll get access to a doctor I trust to help me get off the meds, so here I am!

 

The last time I actually got off Wellbutrin I timed it so it so the worst of my withdrawal was during my college break (I went cold turkey), but I don't have that luxury anymore. Excessive brain fog, peevishness, depression, and extreme lethargy are all problems I desperately need to avoid. I have friends telling me that I should wait another year before I'm more stable in my career before tapering (I'm currently entering a new field). While I agree that I can't go through withdrawal right now, I also feel like I've reached a point where I can't stay on the meds any longer either.

 

The plan:

1. Taper super slowly. Less than 10%, hold for four weeks, be ready to reverse the taper in case of any symptoms.

2. Exercise. Run, bike commute, climb, lift, do yoga, etc. At least half an hour of movement a day.

3. Eat well. Greens & fruit every day, plenty of protein. Avoid excessive caffeine, alcohol, and sugar intake.

4. Sleep. 8 hours a night, naps if possible.

5. Try to do some sort of mindfulness thing. Meditate? Gratitude journal? Mood journal? All of the above?

 

Current assessment:

1. Ready to start - I got an equadose pill cutter that can cut the SR tablets into eighths, so with just that I can ensure that the first seven reductions will be less than 10%. Then I'll need to figure out how to make a liquid for reductions past that - I made an excel spreadsheet of a tapering plan (if I hold each taper for four weeks); if I follow it I'll be tapering for over a year. I cut the pill tonight for starting the taper tomorrow.

2 & 3. These are pretty well instituted in my life already - my exercise schedule is one of the reasons I feel like I can do this now - but of course I could always exercise more and eat better.

4. This one is hard for me; I have a bad habit of staying up late. Ironically, this would be easier with a little withdrawal.

5. I don't have a habit of doing this, although it's always a goal. I'm going to put this on to-do lists and leave myself notes, and hopefully I'll remember. I'll also be reminded when I check in here.

 

I feel a bit like I'm jumping out a plane right now - here's hoping the parachute works!

 

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to firepink: No withdrawal for me?
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi firepink and welcome to SA,

 

It's really good that you have found SA and can plan a slow and careful taper off you drug.

 

I'm going to give you lots of links to check out.  Just work your way through them one at a time as you feel able.

 

SA does recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold at that dose for about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  This is because psychiatric drugs create a physiological dependence, not physical like caffeine or nicotine.

 

Patience is needed to get off these drugs.  We suggest throwing out the calendar and listening to your body and your symptoms.  If after 4 weeks you don't feel stable or life circumstances are a bit more stressful than usual (for example the Christmas period, winter time, or job change) it is generally better to stay at that dose for a bit longer until things settle down.

 

We ask all members to create a drug signature.  This appears below every post you make.  Please update it whenever you make a change.  This is the preferred format which makes it easier for us to see your drug history at a glance:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
  • Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?


What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Brain Remodelling


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable


Keep Notes on Paper

 

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

Tapering Calculator - Online

 

It is best to make only 1 change at a time.  It is also better not to start taking a complex vitamin because if you experience issues you will not know what exactly is causing it.  B vitamins can be stimulating especially B6.  hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex  If trying anything new, start with a small amount to see how you react and build up to the recommended amount.  The only supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  Try a small amount one at a time to see how you react.

 

Even with a careful and slow taper you will most likely experience times of discomfort.  It is best to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Some members find that they are not able to exercise as strenuously and they had been previously able to do.  Please also be aware that many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, either reducing by <10% of the previous dose and/or holding for longer.

 

There are many existing topics and discussions on this site.  You can use the site search function at the top right, or use a search engine and include survivingantidepressants.org in your search string.

 

As I said, lots of information, but I really want you to have what you need so you can have a successful taper.

 

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.  We suggest that members visit each others Intro topics so that can support and encourage each other.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Thanks ChessieCat! I've gone through a few of those links and found a lot of new information already - I'll definitely spend some time browsing through them this weekend :)

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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Day 1: So far, so good.

 

I know I can miss 1 pill in a week without having my body thrown too out of whack - since missing 1/8 of a pill each day means I miss just under a pill a week, I'm not expecting to have any withdrawal symptoms yet. I took my morning pill a little late (8:30), but it was in tact as per usual. I normally take my afternoon pill somewhere between 1 and 4 (I've never been good about taking it at the exact same time). Today, though, I had pill pieces - I have a possibly irrational fear of cutting my esophogus (long story short, my little sister managed to do it when we were kids) and the 1/2 pill looked quite pointy, so I broke up the 1/2 pill and ended up with three 1/4 pills and one 1/8 pill this afternoon. I wasn't sure if they were going to be SR or IR at that point, so I took 1/4 pill at 2:30, 1/4 pill at 3:30, and then I'd planned on another at 4:30 but lost track of time, so I took both the final 1/4 and a 1/8 at 5:30. I think that I experienced a slight spike in med levels after the 5:30 dose, but it's also entirely possible that I was nervous and any reaction was psychosomatic. 

 

 

 

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
8 hours ago, firepink said:

I know I can miss 1 pill in a week

 

Skipping days is NOT recommended.  The brain likes consistency.  It is better to take the same dose at about the same time EVERY day.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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I learned that skipping doses is a terrible tapering method through this site - that had been my original plan, actually, I had a spreadsheet set up for it and everything. I'm glad I didn't go for that! I know that I can skip a dose and not have an effect mostly because I can be forgetful; as a result I know that forgetting one dose in a week is generally ok; skipping two doses in a week means I'm likely to be constantly falling asleep and super foggy for a day or two. So that's a data point I have, but it's definitely not my current plan! I'm trying to be really deliberate about this - probably should have done this a while ago, but I finally got myself a weekly pill organizer along with my pill splitter and a little partitioned pill carrier to make sure I can keep track.  I just got myself magnesium and fish oil, too, so I guess the organizer and carrier are going to be even more useful. Fingers crossed it helps me stay consistent!

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You can also set up a reminder on your phone.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Hi firepink,

 

I just wanted to reach out to you cause I've read about your concerns regarding tapering and career change.

I went cold turkey on prozac and concerta on September and on December I started a new job after 1+ yr of unemployment (layoff due to restructuring in an investment company).

I was postponing and postponing quiting and was trying to conveince myself that as soon as I find a job and stabilize ther eI 'll quit. On the other hand I 've reach my limits mentally and i was feeling that i couldn't take 1 more day having to take a stimulant and antidepressant in order to function normally.

It was a hell (due to cold turkey) but found the strength and courage to do it. We are strogner than we think in times of great suffering. With your plan of slow tapering and good habits I believe it's possibe to go through that and also be successful at work.

It won't be easy and probably noone from the people that advise you now to wait will understand you when you go through that immense change. But I did it and you can as well :)

Everyday is a challenge for me in my new job but I keep going..... It only depends on you and how much you want it :)

Best of luck x

February 2012: Prozac 60mg

August 2015: Concerta 36mg

March 2016: Concerta reduced to 18mg

September 2016: Prozac lowered to 20mg

September 2017: cold turkey both Prozac and Concerta

 

Now: experiencing severe withdrawal from both medications

 

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Thanks Isabellax! I appreciate the support. 

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience on Concerta and Prozac - having been on both before, I can definitely relate. Looking back on things, I think I might have started Wellbutrin the first time while unknowingly experiencing withdrawal from Prozac (I thought it was just my messed-up brain off drugs). I also quit Concerta cold turkey right after a solid concussion (I still have a nice scar), so who knows what fallout was from what, but I failed out of that entire semester of undergrad. It was rough, but after I came out of that horrible mental space, I really enjoyed my non-drugged existence. I know that we all have different paths, but I'm sure that with your self-care and perseverance, you'll get there too!

 

While I was happy to be off meds, I also let my fear of meds dictate my job choices for a long time - because of my association of school and medications I'd been avoiding any job where I had to sit and concentrate. I now have a job where I do exactly that, and I'm a little afraid I'm going to be worthless at it without some drug keeping my head on straight. So, in coming from a place of fear and self-doubt but also hope that I can do and be better, I'm taking my current taper as an opportunity to aggressively practice self care. Even on the off chance that I can actually taper slowly enough to entirely avoid withdrawal (I'm not really sure this is possible), I know I'll also have to deal with the depression and concentration issues that led to my seeking help in the first place. I'm hoping that building up habits of self care will help ward off the underlying issues and at least soften the edges of any looming withdrawal. We'll see. Like you said, though, we're stronger than we think! Plus, I'm pretty sure this is the best support group I've ever seen for dealing with medication issues - together, we've totally got this :)

 

 

 

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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Question - I've tried googling this, but I have no idea what the right search terms are and I can't find it. Is there a term for when an irritant catches your attention and takes over your brain to the point that your ears are ringing, your head feels full to bursting, your vision is impaired, your heart rate is up, and you feel like you have no control over your physical reactions and feel like running away and/or throwing up and/or becoming physically violent?

 

That was happening to me a lot right before I started taking bupropion in 2015, and has still happened occasionally over the last few years. It happened today when I was going through a lot of .pdfs in rapid succession and for some reason the adobe acrobat window kept making itself full screen every time I dragged a half-screen window to the side - I know it sounds ridiculous, but after the first few times it happened I fixated on it and started having an intense physical reaction every time it did it again. I was afraid I was going to start making a less-than-flattering scene, and I had to go take a walk to calm myself down. I don't think that this is withdrawal since I only just started tapering at less than 10% and taking the meds didn't ever fully 'cure' me of it, but I am worried that as I ease off my meds it's going to start to happen to me more often. I'd love some tips to cope with it, especially for when I can't actually physically remove myself from a situation.

 

If I should just post this as a new thread in symptoms and self care, lemme know, but I figured there was probably a thread and I just didn't know how to properly search for it.

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

My first thought is that it's neuro emotions.  And we do have a topic:  Neuro Emotions

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Thanks ChessieCat!

 

I just scanned through some of the neuro emotions thread - if I understand the concept of neuro emotions correctly, it's intense feelings like dread or hopelessness that seemingly come from nowhere. I relate to that, but that's definitely different than what I'm experiencing. This is hyperfixation on some sort of triggering irritant - it can be someone crunching chips, the ticking of a clock, someone typing, visual flashing (like video ads on websites), external music when I'm trying to concentrate - there's no sad feelings or existential dread, it's just that whatever irritant triggered the reaction basically starts consuming my entire existence and the only way to stop that is to either remove the irritant or myself from the situation. 

 

I just listened to the first audio you shared, and that sounds like exactly what I should be listening to when I start getting triggered. I've never thought of these events as panic attacks since fear isn't an element, but maybe they are a variety of panic attack? I'm going to keep reading on. Thanks again! 

 

 

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
26 minutes ago, firepink said:

hyperfixation

 

Not hyperfixation, hypervigilance.  Your body is on alert.  Ready to react to danger.  What can eventuate, if you don't understand what is happening and use appropriate techniques, you can add fear to it which creates more feelings and reactions in the body which can lead to a panic attack.  The added fear Claire Weekes calls second fear, or fear of the fear.  It is possible, when you realise what is happen to do concentrated deep breathing and calm yourself.  I have had it happen to me and been able to stave off a panic attack.

 

26 minutes ago, firepink said:

neuro emotions

 

It's any emotion that you experience that is higher in intensity than usual.  Not just negative emotions.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Hmmm. I've been reading and googling, and both the 'hypervigilance' and 'second fear' concepts might explain what's happening fairly well. 'Second fear' particularly resonated with my experience earlier today. I remember noting that I was getting consumed by my overblown irritation and then being distressed because I knew it was just going to keep getting worse - maybe that second part, the unchallenged thought of the inevitability of my reaction, is in fact the majority of my problem to begin with.

 

I'm glad to hear you've been able to stave off a panic attack with concentrated deep breathing. That's definitely some motivation for me to practice mindfulness and breathing exercises!

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
4 minutes ago, firepink said:

I'm glad to hear you've been able to stave off a panic attack with concentrated deep breathing.

 

It took a lot of effort and self talk.  It would have been easier to give into it and I wanted to give into it but I knew that if I did I'd end up curled up in a ball crying, moaning and howling out loud (not like a wolf though), the word I wanted was hysterical, and dry wretching because I have experienced that before when I didn't know what it was and didn't know what to do.

 

And you would never belief what started it.  I had to go into the suburban shopping centre just before Christmas (end 2016) and as I was sitting at the computer thinking about what I needed to do I could feel the anxiety rising.  After I calmed down I told myself that I had managed it before and I could do it and I just needed to do one thing at a time.  I had to self talk all the way there whilst driving but once I got there I was fine.

 

There is a thing called anticipatory anxiety.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Almost one week in! I've been kind of foggy and fatigued the last few days - not really sure if I can attribute that to my 15/16 daily dose or if it's other things (stress, still could be sleeping more, inconsistent exercise, less-than-perfect food choices, new supplements), but I'm definitely going to keep monitoring it. I wasn't going to keep a symptom journal - despite being nervous enough to be on a <10% taper, I was still hoping that I would get away nearly symptom free - but I think I might start in case patterns or warning signs emerge that would make me slow down my taper or temporarily go back to the next highest dosage or whatnot. 

 

I'm going to be switching time zones - west coast to east coast to west coast again over the course of a few days - so I don't know if that's going to mess with my head any more or not. Fingers crossed I only end up jet-lagged like everyone else taking short term trips into other time zones!

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It is a very good idea to keep a symptoms journal for the very reasons which you have given.

 

"or temporarily go back to the next highest dosage"

 

The way I make the decision about whether to updose, I ask myself can I live with these symptoms if they continue.  If the answer is no I updose.  If it is yes then I don't.

 

If I have to updose I do not return to the previous dose.  I have updosed by a very small amount and that has been enough.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • 2 weeks later...

ChessieCat, thanks for the continuing feedback!

 

I'm not really sure how to go back to anything but my next highest dose - I'm tapering by 1/8 a pill, which I'm sure is already a bit variable but still reasonably consistent. I don't think I can cut the pill into 1/16ths, or if I can I think it would be highly inaccurate. From what I understand, I can only make a liquid out of bupropion IR, and I have SR tablets. But it might be that any liquid just becomes IR, which would be great - that would allow me to fine tune my taper a lot more. I'm going to check in with the bupropion / wellbutrin thread on that one. 

 

So far though, so good! I am still having a bit more trouble concentrating than normal, but it's minor.

 

I also never had to deal with the changing time zones - the crazy new England weather cancelled my flight last weekend. That was good news / bad news - I'm in CA temporarily and my insurance is still out there, so I'd been planning on picking up more pills. I need to count what I have and see if I need to make arrangements to get more before May, the next time I'm scheduled to go back.

 

I really really want to go down another 1/8 a pill (so down to 7/8 total starting dose), but I know it's too early for that - and if my minor concentration problems are related to the med change, I definitely don't want to exacerbate that! So I'm going to stick to the schedule and keep taking 15/16 the original dose. Fingers crossed that keeps working out ok!

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

Link to post

I have a question about liquids - right now I only have access to generic Bupropion HCL SR 150mg tablets, which I'm splitting into eighths (I just started tapering a few weeks ago, so right now I'm taking a full pill in the morning and 7/8 pill in the afternoon). 

 

I understand that in case of withdrawal I should only take a half step up, and also at some point a reduction of 1/8 of a pill is going to be more than 10%. I don't think I can split my pills into 1/16, so in that case it seems liquid would be the best option - but I see that you're only supposed to make a liquid out of IR tablets. Is that because any liquid will turn into IR, or because something about the binder in SR / XR pills actually makes turning the pill into a liquid chemically or physically infeasible? 

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
On 17/07/2011 at 6:28 AM, Altostrata said:

 

If you cut up Wellbutrin or bupropion XR, what's inside is regular immediate-release bupropion.

 

When you break the time-release coating, the tablet loses its extended-release characteristic and you would be taking immediate-release bupropion.

 

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
18 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 

Right, but I have SR, where the 'sustained release' characteristic comes from the binding.

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

There is a lot of information in Post #1.

 

On 17/07/2011 at 6:28 AM, Altostrata said:

How to taper off bupropion SR (sustained release)
From FDA information: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=b5d286ce-e23f-4dde-b400-cb4832172ece
- Available as brand-name or generic in 100 mg, 150 mg, 200 mg sustained-release tablets
- To be taken twice daily, "at least 8 hours between successive doses." (This is equivalent to 3-times daily immediate-release bupropion.)

According to Merck http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/print/lexicomp/bupropion.html
 

Quote

"Data from the manufacturer states that dividing Wellbutrin SR® tablets resulted in an increased rate of release at 15 minutes: “However, the divided tablet retained its sustained-release characteristics with similar increases of released bupropion at each sampling point beyond 15 minutes when compared to the intact Wellbutrin SR® tablet...” Bupropion is hydroscopic and therefore should be stored in a dry place. Splitting of large quantities in advance of administration is not advised since loss of potency may result. If necessary, splitting should be done cleanly without crushing."

 
In the name-brand Wellbutrin SR, the sustained-release quality is in the binder, the glue that holds the tablet together. Generic versions (which would be called bupropion SR, not Wellbutrin SR) may be made differently. Contact the manufacturer to find out exactly how the tablet is formulated, or talk to a pharmacist specializing in psychopharmacology.
 
I personally found you CAN cut Wellbutrin SR (sustained release) tablets up -- the timed-release mechanism is mixed in with the drug. Put the pieces in a water-tight container and use them up within 24 hours because the time-release binder can absorb humidity and degrade.

For a short time, I cut up generic 100mg bupropion SR and took 50mg in the morning, Wellbutrin XL 150mg a couple of hours later, and another SR 50mg in the early evening for a total of 250mg/day. (I never tolerated Wellbutrin very well.)

To taper, convert your dosage to 100mg SR tablets, cut up the 100mg tablets, make reductions by 25mg or less, take 2 times a day.
 
(Note: If you cut an SR tablet in very small fragments or crush it, it won't to continue to be sustained-release -- the binder is extensively damaged. Take in divided doses as though it was immediate-release.)

Taper with a mix of sustained-release (SR) and immediate-release (IR) tablets
As immediate-release tablets come in the smallest dosage of 75mg, which can be quartered into pieces of 18.75mg, you might want to convert part of your daily dose to IR tablets.

This will enable you to taper by 18.75mg at a time.

You might be able to get by with taking the SR tablet in the morning and the IR tablet at night.

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

I appreciate that - but I've read that a bunch of times over, and I still have this lingering question: the post says you can only make a liquid out of IR tablets (sorry, couldn't figure out how to bring the quote over here) and recommends that later in the SR taper I should get IR tablets to make super small doses or liquids. I don't know if that's just because the liquid would be IR anyway or the IR tablet is more convenient because it's smaller OR if there's a reason I can't make a liquid out of the SR tablet (like something in the binder mixed with the water and bupropion would actually change the chemical form of bupropion). I thought I'd posted a question in that thread but apparently not; I just went and fixed it. I just wanted to try to figure this out before I needed a liquid in case I do need to enter the physician fray for another prescription :)

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

Link to post
  • 2 weeks later...

I'm moving onto the second step of my taper tomorrow! I'm excited and nervous about it. I'm switching just shy of a month in, down to 1/8 my full dose. I wanted to switch early in the week because last time I experienced some fuzziness that may or may not have been related to the first taper about 4-6 days in, so I'm hoping that any taper-related fuzziness will be at its peak on the weekend. I don't know if that'll work out, but fingers crossed!

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

Link to post

Hi -- wanted to say good luck and I hope the second step goes well!  I had a bad experience as well (you mentioned bad withdrawal in the past) where a doctor had me stop Wellbutrin cold turkey and the withdrawal was horrible, and I ended up going back on.  I hope this taper helps you avoid that!  And isn't it hard to tell when something is related to a taper or not?  I often question myself, am I being too sensitive or is this really related?  So difficult :/ 

Dextroamphetamine 30 mg, started 2011 -- still taking

Paxil 2004-2005

Wellbutrin/Bupropion 300 mg, started 2005 -- still taking

Prozac/Fluoxetine 40 mg, started 2006 -- still taking

Abilify/Aripiprazole 5 mg, started 2014 -- started taper in 2017, finished 2020

  • At 0.5 mg February 2018
  • At 0.2 mg/mL September 2018
  • At 0.18mg/mL October 30, 2018
  • At 0.17mg/mL December 20, 2018
  • At 0.16mg/mL January 10, 2019
  • At 0.15mg/mL February 19, 2019
  • At 0.14mg/mL April 25, 2019
  • At 0.13mg/mL June 22, 2019
  • At 0.12mg/mL August 5, 2019
  • At 0.11mg/mL September 5, 2019
  • At 0.10 mg/mL November 7, 2019
  • At 0.05 mg/mL February 1, 2020
  • Jumped off March 23, 2020

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/20/2018 at 9:24 AM, RubyJ said:

Hi -- wanted to say good luck and I hope the second step goes well!  I had a bad experience as well (you mentioned bad withdrawal in the past) where a doctor had me stop Wellbutrin cold turkey and the withdrawal was horrible, and I ended up going back on.  I hope this taper helps you avoid that!  And isn't it hard to tell when something is related to a taper or not?  I often question myself, am I being too sensitive or is this really related?  So difficult :/ 

Thanks RubyJ! Despite not being on the ball about responding, I appreciate your well wishes!

 

Update:

 

The second step went well - possibly better than the first. I haven't skipped any doses since starting to taper, and I've been taking magnesium and fish oil - I've skipped a few supplement doses, and I really do think I can tell a difference when that happens - so no more supplement skipping! Helped by the fact that I bike commute over an hour on most week days, I've been pretty on track with hitting 10+ hr/wk of exercise in a low heart rate zone (z2ish) to try to keep my brain happy and cortisol levels low (I'm not actually doing any cortisol testing, so I've just gotta believe in the process). Also, basically just due to running out of coffee at home, I started going off coffee this week and found I'm actually ok with that, too - so while I'm not caffeine free, I'm only drinking tea and I think that's helping work as a mood stabilizer / anxiety reducer as well.

 

I'm still not great at getting a full nights sleep and can't claim any progress on the meditation / mindfulness front. I just got a pair of noise cancelling headphones to make up for the open office plan at work, though, and they are doing a great job of cancelling out my trouble focusing! 

 

I reduced my dose by another 1/8 of a 150mg pill this week, and that felt like a big milestone - I've now reduced my original dosage by over 50mg, the dose my doctor had me decrease at one time to bad effect. So far, though, with this gradual approach it's going fine! Big sigh of relief. 

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

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  • 4 weeks later...
MiguelFreeman

@firepink hope you feeling ok

 

  1. Zoloft(Generic)100 mg From 06/06/2016 to 02/10/2016                         
  2. Lexapro(Generic) 20 MG From 03/10/2016 to 05/2017                               Supplements: Omega3 
  3. Lexapro (Generic) CT 05/2017 
  4. 6/08/17- reinstated 10mg Lexapro(Generic)(50%of original doses )
  5. 02/11/2017- 9 mg Lexapro(Generic) (10 % rule) (Homemade)
  6. 04/12/2017- 8.75mg Lexapro(Generic)(BrassMonkey slide)
  7. 19/12/2017- 8.5mg Lexapro(Generic)
  8. 06/02/2018- 8.35mg Lexapro (Generic)
  9. 16/2/2018- 8.22mg Lexapro(Generic)
  10. 25/2/2018- 8.09mg Lexapro (Generic)-05/03/2018- 7.9mg Lexapro (Generic)-28/03/2018-7.75mg Lexapro (Generic)-04/04/2018-7.66mg Lexapro (Generic)18/05/2018-7.64mg Lexapro (brand Liquid)
  11. 28/6/2018 7.50mg lexapro (Brand Liquid ) 15/7/2018 7.40 mg Lexapro(brand liquid) 7.30 mg Lexapro(Liquid) 27-07-2018
  12. Forgot to update this but i contiuned to taper down until 21/12/2019 and final dose was 1.3 mg  Time since Stoping  10 months, 4 days 
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  • Moderator Emeritus
On 2/27/2018 at 2:35 PM, firepink said:

Question - I've tried googling this, but I have no idea what the right search terms are and I can't find it. Is there a term for when an irritant catches your attention and takes over your brain to the point that your ears are ringing, your head feels full to bursting, your vision is impaired, your heart rate is up, and you feel like you have no control over your physical reactions and feel like running away and/or throwing up and/or becoming physically violent? 

 

 

 

 People with misophonia are affected emotionally by common sounds — usually those made by others, and usually ones that other people don't pay attention to.

Misophonia may cause a reaction to sounds such as dripping water, chewing, snapping gum, or repetitive noises, such as pencil tapping.
People with misophonia can become irritated, enraged, or even panicked when they hear their trigger sounds.

 

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Link to post
1 hour ago, Petunia said:

 

 People with misophonia are affected emotionally by common sounds — usually those made by others, and usually ones that other people don't pay attention to.

Misophonia may cause a reaction to sounds such as dripping water, chewing, snapping gum, or repetitive noises, such as pencil tapping.
People with misophonia can become irritated, enraged, or even panicked when they hear their trigger sounds.

 

This is very interesting so thanks for the Q and A .

This rings a bell with me big time ,I live in the same house as someone that is never off the telephone and its a nightmare ,I can hear the noise through the wall .this person is kind and would do anything for you so it throws up all kinds of emotions for me .

I think its deep rooted in my fractured ego because I cant control my environment ,its quite the mess .its got very bad lately that I actually were big ear defenders .this is  ridiculous .

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

Link to post

Thanks @MiguelFreeman! So far so good. It feels amazing to be at 3/4 of my dose right now!

 

@Petunia - thank you! I've never heard of misophonia, and it seems pretty accurate (even as it seems to still be a big medical unknown). While I know there are dangers in labeling things, I hope that I'll be able to find more help for when I experience that sort of thing by being able to research it by name! I'm excited to dig deeper into that subject.

 

@powerback - do you also use a fan? It only works so well, but I use a box fan in my room as a blanket white noise for general chitchat / apartment noise. I'm totally with you on the phone thing - I don't know if it's related to the (possible) misophonia in any way, as it irritates me in a much more general manner, but I've had to set ground rules with some especially talkative roommates about having extended phone calls directly next to me (like when I'm cooking and they could literally be anywhere else) or directly by the wall to my room. You're not alone!

1998 to 2005 -  Prozac, Wellbutrin, Adderall, Concerta

2005 to 2015 - Off all meds

2015 - Started Bupropion HCL SR, 150mg 2x/day.

2016 - Taper attempt with help of Dr.; too fast (50mg jumps). Went back to 150 mg SR 2x/day

2018 - Starting taper. Feb. 23: 281.25 mg/day; March 20: 262.5 mg/day; April 18: 243.75 mg/day; May 2: 225 mg/day; May 16: 206.25 mg/day; June 5: 187.5 mg/day, June 26: 168.75 mg/day.

 

Primary non-prescription therapies: magnesium, fish oil, distance running. Occasional meditation.

Link to post
6 hours ago, firepink said:

Thanks @MiguelFreeman! So far so good. It feels amazing to be at 3/4 of my dose right now!

 

@Petunia - thank you! I've never heard of misophonia, and it seems pretty accurate (even as it seems to still be a big medical unknown). While I know there are dangers in labeling things, I hope that I'll be able to find more help for when I experience that sort of thing by being able to research it by name! I'm excited to dig deeper into that subject.

 

@powerback - do you also use a fan? It only works so well, but I use a box fan in my room as a blanket white noise for general chitchat / apartment noise. I'm totally with you on the phone thing - I don't know if it's related to the (possible) misophonia in any way, as it irritates me in a much more general manner, but I've had to set ground rules with some especially talkative roommates about having extended phone calls directly next to me (like when I'm cooking and they could literally be anywhere else) or directly by the wall to my room. You're not alone!

Fair play to you FP having roommate's ,no choice ide say says you.

When I'm in a bad wave like Tonight it's hell and I couldn't imagine having roommate's, but I've no energy to leave the house .I'm in real trouble to get peace/heal on this journey .

I'm trying to think outside the box to get Away from were I live .I always have earphones in, listening to documentaries on history or nutrition and Netflix .

The fan would iritate me ide say lol.

Take care and be safe.

 

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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