Fontman82: another desperate soul - citalopram withdrawal

[Dude]

By the way, talking to you and reviewing my own progress in the process has prompted me to update my profile signature (last comment in parentheses). 'Cos the difference between what I was like to begin with and what I'm like now really is like the difference between night and day.

 

What we tend to forget is that the body really does have an incredible capacity to repair itself (it's basically one of its main "design" features).

 

So thanks for reminding me of that and of my own progress!

 

Dude

[Fontman82]

Hello,

 

it's been a few days, but just thought I would update. ok it's weird as I seem to be cycling through symptoms. The tinnitus has reduced, not gone but not as loud. The Restlessness has completely gone, so no RLS or anything else. The Jerks are almost gone, I notice one every now and then but mostly they have disappeared.  Depression doesn't feel too bad. Hypersensitivity to touch and sound is still as it seems been reduced to normal so not hypersensitive. Not feeling dizzy anymore. I still have brainfog, comes and goes which is weird. So I'll have moments when I can think clearly without the headaches and things and then other moments I feel it coming back. Hopefully it will go eventually.

 

Having said that, a new symptom has appeared, I think because of the adrenaline  caused by my anxiety, is i'm experiencing a burning, prickling sensation, like when you're about to get ill and your skin feels weird. So I have that for now, In the morning it feels worst, like I'm aching while waking up. That's just starting.

 

Otherwise I'm not doing too terrible apart from those things. I'm trying not to let it get to me. Oh Thanks dude the for Cherry suggestion, I bought some of the liquid online, and it seems to help. My Sleep has improved a lot. So that's good. I'm glad also you're doing better now. I'm thinking of trying the betablocker I got prescribed just to see if it can take some of the adrenaline symptoms away.

 

Thanks it for now.

 

Thanks 

[Dude]

Hi Fontman

 

Glad to hear you're doing better. Sounds like you're on the fast track to complete recovery. I've never heard of someone recovering so quickly so hats off to you!

 

Also glad to hear the tart cherry extract is helping. Wasn't aware it came in liquid form but interesting to know. As for the beta blocker, well, personally I wouldn't recommend taking any pharmaceuticals since they can sometimes be a burden on one's nervous system (in my experience anyway). But perhaps in your case you'd be able to handle it. You might want to ask someone with a bit more knowledge on the subject of beta blockers (such as a moderator or administrator), though, in order to be able to make a more informed decision. If so, you could send one of them a personal message.

 

My general recommendation, however, would be not to take any unnecessary risks and to not try to force your progress. Especially considering how incredibly rapid your progress has been so far.

 

The safe bet in that regard would be to just stick to magnesium (in my opinion, that is). I find that magnesium chloride (i.e. magnesium in its "pure" form) works best. I get mine in sachets from a local pharmacy (powder form). Tastes a little bit disgusting but works a treat. To get rid of the taste I just drink a few glasses of water after taking it.

 

Also, if you want to "burn off" any excess adrenaline, light exercise might help (if you're up for it). Just going for walks, perhaps a little light jogging, some (easy going) cycling or lifting some weights (without overdoing it) can sometimes help reduce stress.

 

[Dude]

P.S.: Many of the administrators/moderators here refer to magnesium as being "nature's beta blocker" (if I'm not mistaken), which is why I mentioned it again (apart from my own positive experience with it when it comes to dealing with anxiety etc.).

[Dude]

Correction: I think they often refer to magnesium as "nature's calcium channel blocker", not "beta blocker". But anyway, check with an administrator or moderator for more information.

[bheb]

Hey Fontman. I also had/have bad agitation/restlessness on and off AD's. Really glad that's cleared up for the most part and that you're doing better in general. 

 

On 3/21/2018 at 7:25 AM, Fontman82 said:

I had a coffee today, first one in a month. I know it’s important to be strict with caffeine and sugar and stuff but I need to remember what I was like before this and sometimes just doing something you would do before getting I’ll reminds me of what I want to be again.

 

Just wanted to say I struggle with this too -- wanting to indulge to remind myself that I'm still me. Too often I get overwhelmed by these new dietary and drug restrictions that SSRI harm have made necessary. I want to be like everyone else mindlessly sipping coffee without even considering it a risk. But, on the bright side, at least there are pretty consistent triggers we can identify and cut out to make our lives easier. 

[Fontman82]

Thanks Dude, I don’t think I’m healing as good or fast as you might think. But hopefully I get there. Brain fog and concentration is really getting me down lately. Feel like I’m floating through life. I know I’ve probably messed up my dopamine or something. I hope it goes away. I’ve heard some people have it for years. It really scares me more than anything. I keep waiting for it to lift but so far it seems like it’s here to stay for now. The stuttering every now and then really reminds me I’m not right. Oh well.I’m taking my magnesium citrate everyday 400mg. 200mg in the morning and 200mg at night. Not sure if it’s helping but it can’t hurt. 

 

 

[Dude]

Hi Fontman

 

I get what you're saying. And sorry if it seemed like I wasn't listening to what you were saying previously.

 

The only reason I've repeatedly pointed out being impressed by your rate of recovery is simply because you wrote that some of the symptoms you've suffered from (such as depersonalization/derealization, auditory sensitivity and photosensitivity, for example) seemed to have mostly cleared up after "only" a couple of months, which is indeed impressive, since in some cases such symptoms can last a lot longer. And that's what makes me think that you're recovering a lot quicker than average. But that doesn't mean that I'm trying to belittle your suffering. Quite the opposite is the case because I know how troubling the symptoms are that you're still suffering from.

 

I still suffer from a good few of those symptoms you describe myself, such as brain fog and concentration problems. But those too have been gradually improving over time. Still, it is incredibly frustrating having to deal with and takes a hell of a lot of patience. There's no denying it and, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way around it. So, again, I'm not trying to sugarcoat your situation. All I'm saying is that (as sappy as it may sound), you're not alone in your suffering and that I (and countless others) know what you're going through and empathize with you. And I also just want to reassure you that things will improve if given time. And as for the stuttering, I had speech problems in the beginning too and as far as I could tell they're mostly caused by anxiety (in my opinion). And these symptoms also cleared up after a while.

 

Lastly, what I would still like to suggest in addition to the magnesium (etc.) is to consider using certain products by the company "Point of Return". I've mentioned them before, but I'd just like to point out once more that they have a so-called "nutraceutical" program designed to help with either tapering off psychiatric drugs or with recovery from protracted withdrawal symptom. I've used some of their products myself in the past for varying lengths of time. Some of them helped and some of them, I have to admit, didn't seem to do much for me. But in my case the problem may have been that I suffer from coelic's disease (and, hence, have a nutrient absorption problem) and currently still smoke, which also may have interfered.

 

Also, there's a cost issue. The stuff they offer isn't cheap and is supposed to be taken over extended periods of time for it to be truly beneficial. In a case such as yours and mine I'd reckon it would need to be taken on a continual basis for about half a year or a year (or perhaps even a bit longer).  When I took them it was usually only for a couple of months at a time (for financial reasons) and I wasn't always disciplined enough to take them several times a day every single day. And that's why I'd like to give it another shot once I've quit smoking and have the money together. So that might be something for you to also consider if you can afford it. And by the way, I'm not affiliated with them in any way (and hence have nothing to gain from mentioning them) and am not promising you that it would definitely work. All I'm saying is that it might help you to recover quicker and therefore might be worth considering.

 

Dammit, they're I've gone again, writing more than I intended to... Still, I hope this information is at least of some use to you.

 

Keep hanging in there and talk to you again soon.

 

P.S.: I agree with what "bheb" wrote above. I've cut out most things that will cause a reaction too, such as alcohol and caffeine. It might be an additional pain in the behind but might be worth sticking to until you're more stable.

 

 

[Fontman82]

Hey Dude, it’s fine friend 😁 I wasn’t upset or offended or anything. I think sometimes reading something can come across different as it was intended to be interpreted. I appreciate all the support you have offered and advice. Thanks mate. I will take a look at the point of return, see if there’s anything I fancy trying. I’m interested in fish oil, looking at a good brand like Nordic or something. I’ve heard that can help with brain fog. Plus you are right, I do feel slightly better lately. Hopefully I’m on my way to recovery. The burning is less than a few days ago. So I’m looking forward to not feeling I’ll, it’s like I have a cold lately but I think it’s anxiety. 

 

Im going to try to stop obsessing over my symptoms, I think this also doesn’t help. Before withdrawl I never obsessed about a headache or a muscle twinge. But now it’s like everything is withdrawal haha. I think blaming everything on it gives it more power so I’m choosing not to believe every little thing is because of it, although I know certain things are. 

 

So much has changed, I really do seem like I’m quickly cycling through symptoms. So the burning sensations are less, less twitches/jerks. Let’s see where I am in a couple of months. Hopefully much improved.

 

Thanks

[Dude]

Hi Fontman

 

Thanks for the message and no worries. Communication can be a tricky thing at times, as you rightly pointed out.

 

And yeah, it's best to distract yourself if you can. That being said, obsessing about certain symptoms (and the past, for example) is a symptom of withdrawal itself, ironically. So if such thoughts do occasionally pop up, it helps to remind yourself that it's simply part of the process of recovery and to then switch your attention to something else.

 

Also, taking fish oil is a good idea. I currently use the brand "green pastures" which I ordered a good while ago from the states. But I might give the brand you mentioned a try when it's time to reorder.

 

Good luck with everything and feel free to drop in once in a while (when you're up to it) to let us know how you've been doing.

 

All the best!

[Dude]

Hey Fontman

 

Hope you're doing alright. I just wanted to leave one last comment with regard to the so-called "nutraceuticals" by the company "Point of Return" that I mentioned previously.

 

As I've said before, I'm not 100% sure whether or not their products are really of any benefit. Some of them I found somewhat useful (e.g. their product they call "sleep" which contains tart cherry extract) and some of them I didn't seem to derive any benefit from (such as the product "support"). I also mentioned that I was still considering giving them another shot nonetheless (for the reasons I mentioned above).

 

However, I recently decided to find out what the general opinion on that particular company and their products is here on this forum and it was recommended to me by an administrator that I have a look at a particular thread in which they (i.e., "Point of Return" and also some other companies/products) have been discussed. So I just thought I'd send you the link as well.

 

Here it is:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/9853-dont-waste-your-money-on-these-supplements/?tab=comments#comment-176165

 

 

As you will see, the companies in question and their products / programs are not well liked on this forum. Perhaps there is indeed a reason for that, perhaps not. It's hard to know for sure. But I thought I'd mention it to you just in case you had decided to order something and it turned out to be useless to you. I just wouldn't want you to be wasting any money just because of something I mentioned that I wasn't too sure about myself.

 

Regards,

 

Dude

[Dude]

Correction: there are obviously several reasons why these companies and their products are generally disliked on this forum. And it's all explained in the thread, of course. What I meant to say was that it's hard to be 100% sure whether or not all the hostility towards these companies and their products (in particular "Point of Return") is 100% justified. It might very well be but I simply don't know for sure. Anyway, just thought I'd let you know.

[Fontman82]

Hello, I’m back, little update.

 

Hey Dude about the products, don’t worry about it. I haven’t bought any. 

 

At the moment I’m in a weird place. My sleep is a lot better, almost back to normal. I still wake up now and then. But I can quickly fall Back asleep. Cortisol mornings are much reduced, still feel the cortisol kick in but feels more natural. But my musles ache when I wake up. Not very pleasant.

 

My biggest symptom that bothers me at the moment is the Hypnagogic Jerks I get when resting. Sometimes if I get too rested on the couch watching TV they happen. And usually always when I’m about to go to sleep and the same waking up. Once extremely relaxed then I normally get a few of those. I probably do it in my sleep as well but I don’t want to know so I’m not setting up a camera to see.

 

Its been 5 months I think since my kindling reaction to Citalopram. These Jerks are the worst physical symptom I have still lingering. I really hope I don’t have them for years. I often wonder if I’m doing the right thing staying 100% med free. 

 

I’m trying to stay positive and be mindful but it’s tough.

 

See how this month goes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dude]

Hiya Fontman82!

 

Nice to hear from you again! I'm glad to hear you've been doing better. I'm also familiar with those kind of jerks and have also experienced them in the past while relaxing. Apparently, that's quite common. But I haven't had them in a good while now. So they do tend to clear up eventually, it would seem. And if you're reaction to Citalopram is only back 5 months and you're otherwise mostly symptom free, then I have no doubt you'll make a full recovery soon enough. You're on the right track, it would seem. So I would personally think twice before reconsidering medication (i.e., if you really do think you can otherwise manage). Just keep in mind, though, that I'm not an absolute expert on the subject and that it's just my opinion.

 

Otherwise I don't have much more to say right now, for a change But I look forward to talking to you again.

 

In the meantime, keep your chin up and take it easy

 

 

[Fontman82]

Hey,

 

Well it's been another month, things have changed. The feeling of being physically ill is really getting me down. I don't know how I can continue feeling this way. Everyday is torment. Just a feeling of utter helplessness. It's a strange feeling of having hot prickly burning skin. I also have a stiff neck that won't go away. I still get the leg spasms/jerks. Sometimes it's my abdomen. Tinnitus still present. I fear I will always be this way.  My sleep is really good so that's not a problem, I don't wake that much now but I can't stop crying. I really don't want to live like this a anymore. I wish I could go back in time and stop myself ever going into that pharmacy but I can't. I'm so tired of feeling helpless,  it's like a never ending waiting game to see if I wake up one day and feel good. But it never comes. I honestly feel like just taking the risk and trying to go back on med, but I'm too scared to and I know I could end up worse. 

 

 

[Dude]

Hi Fontman

 

Good to hear from you again. I get what you're saying. It's a difficult situation to be in. I have to admit that I'm a little surprised, considering that you seemed to have been doing relatively well previously. But I guess I somewhat underestimated the situation.

 

As for reinstatement, I recently discovered that the general recommendation for recovery on this forum is actually reinstatement at first and then to taper off slowly. They don't like to say it out loud (in the sense that you have to read a lot of threads to come across such a statement by moderators/administrators, especially considering that the general attitude is anti-medication (as is mine, of course)) but that's basically what they recommend.

 

However, if you're sensitive to the meds, then the recommendation is of course to do so starting at an extremely  low dose and then working your way up until you're rid of the withdrawal symptoms. And then of course to taper off again very, very slowly. That being said, it doesn't always work, unfortunately. Although there seem to be some people on this site who have gone that route and for whom reinstatement went successfully, there are also those who reinstate after having been in recovery for a good while and who say that it made things a lot worse and that they regret having done so. So it's difficult when it comes to giving such advice and remains a personal decision, I'm afraid.

 

As for myself, if I had known about how to reinstate properly (i.e. at a "micro-dose", wait for the nervous system to stabilize, then to taper up gradually repeating the process again and again) and had been able to weigh the risks and benefits eight years ago (i.e. when my "wonderful" journey started), I would have done so. But I've now recovered to such an extent that the risk of reinstatement seems to outweigh any possible benefits. So I for one am currently not considering reinstatement, despite the many regrets I still have about not having done so in the past. And I do know from personal experience (and from stories from others) that it is possible to heal from cold turkey withdrawal, regardless of what people may say on this site and elsewhere.

 

Also, one thing that I've heard recently is that if for some reason your recovery is taking it's time (as has been the case with me), it might be due to interfering factors, such as seemingly harmless substances such as coffee, alcohol, antihistamines, certain antibiotics or certain other chemicals such as solvents. Although I've been exposed to some of the things on that list a couple of times over the years and they did cause a minor setback in each instance (from which I always recovered again), the main thing that I think has been hindering my progress all these years is the fact that I still smoke. So that's something I'm currently working on and hope to rid myself of this year (in addition to gradually improving my nutrition and reducing stress levels). And once that has been achieved I truly believe I will then fully recover (I'm now at roughly 60-80%). So my advice in that regard (i.e. if you choose not to reinstate) would be to make sure you've removed anything (or avoid anything) that might be hindering your progress (at least where possible).

 

The bottom line, however, is that regardless of whether or not you reinstate, you can and will eventually heal. You're in the process of healing right now, even if it doesn't seem like it. So don't give up and hang in there. Cos no matter how tough things seem right now, you will eventually overcome this condition and can one day look back with pride at what you've managed to get through.

 

Lastly, in case you were wondering what helped me to endure throughout all these years, it's not been hope or love or believing in god or that there's some higher meaning to this suffering or anything like that (which some people cling on to and which may or may not be true) but rather an underlying tremendous anger and hatred towards psychiatry, the sc*mbag who prescribed the drugs I naively swallowed (and who claimed they were non-addictive) and a resulting intense desire to one day join the battle against mainstream psychiatry in a professional capacity and to help others who have been harmed. In order to be able to do so I need the right qualifications (i.e. in order to be taken seriously) and have already made a step in the right direction by completing a degree in sociology and philosophy a while ago (which is something I had to put on hold for many years due to withdrawal) and by educating myself on the subject over the years (I also plan on eventually getting a degree in psychology (with a focus on biological psychology and addiction) for the same reason).

 

I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, by the way, but simply want to point out that even if our suffering may be meaningless (in an existential sense), we can still give it meaning by using it as a catalyst for something good, whether that be by joining those who are already in battle against the utter sc*mbags who are ultimately responsible for this state of affairs (i.e. the APA and the pharmaceutical industry) or simply by helping others who are going through the same thing and are having trouble dealing with it (which is what this site is for, for example). Whether or not such an approach ever bears fruit is not really important, in my opinion. What really matters is living for a cause that is bigger than oneself, to keep fighting and to never give up.

 

So what I'm basically saying, I guess, is this: turn your depression and anguish into anger and determination, don't even consider giving up and just keep fighting!

 

It doesn't mean you have to be in "battle mode" all the time, by the way. It should, in my opinion, just be your underlying attitude towards the whole thing. And that will get you through it all. Believe me. Cos even though I've had my own moments of despair (the last one having only been a few months ago when I became a member of this site), it's precisely this underlying attitude that has helped me get through it all. And I sure as hell won't be giving up any time soon and hope for your sake that you won't either!

 

Talk to you again soon, Fontman.

 

Regards

 

Duder

 

 

[Dude]

Hi again. I just wanted to say that I do have some thoughts on how to reinstate at an extremely low dose, if that's what you were to choose to do. And I don't blame you or regard you as weak for considering it. Because despite what I wrote previously with regard to healing (and truly believe) I don't see suffering as being something noble. Especially when it's suffering that could possibly be avoided or at the very least somwhat alleviated. So there's nothing wrong with having the desire to reinstate in order to ease the pain. But there is a risk involved that should not be taken lightly which you should keep in mind before making your decision.

 

Anyway, since my laptop's battery crapped out on me I'll have to get back to  you tomorrow.

 

Take care in the meantime.

[Dude]

Hi Fontman

 

How are things? Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I've had a lot on my plate recently. The last time I wrote to you I said I'd get back to you with some thoughts regarding reinstatement. Because although I know from personal experience that it is possible to gradually recover from cold turkey withdrawal over time, I understand the situation you're in since I've been in that situation before myself. And in retrospect I wish I'd known how to reinstate properly back then too. Might have saved me years of unnecessary suffering. And even now, despite what I wrote previously about the risks outweighing the benefits in my case (which I still think is true), I still sometimes consider reinstating again myself.

 

Unfortunately, reinstatement has the potential to backfire, as you know yourself. Especially if you're hypersensitive to ssris (or whatever drug someone may be on) and in such a case can cause a good bit of damage, for example by causing akathisia. There's a apparently a documented case of reinstatement of lexepro (i.e. cipralex/escitalopram) having caused TBI (traumatic brain injury) in one particular guy. Here's a link to a webpage that describes his story and provides some evidence:

 

http://www.hormonesmatter.com/brain-long-term-lexapro-chemically-induced-tbi/

 

I honestly believe that may very well have been what happened to me too when I tried to reinstate eight years ago as there are an incredible amount of similarities between the reaction he describes and the problems I've experienced. But I suppose only a brain scan and neuropsychological testing would be able to determine that for sure.

 

I'm aware that this probably scares the hell out of you. And I'm sorry if it does. It's just that I think you deserve to know the truth about the dangers so that you can make an informed decision. Bear in mind though that that's a worst case scenario. There are many people who have managed to reinstate successfully, thereby got relief from withdrawal symptoms and who were then able to taper off gradually and eventually become free of whatever drug they were on. And if I were you I would personally still consider it, despite the risks involved.

 

Here's a link by the way to SA's general comments on reinstatement. You may have read it before but if you haven't I'd give it a good read:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

So, if you're going to give it a go (which I'd completely understand, as I said), you'd want to start with an extremely low does. That way if things were to backfire somewhat the setback would be minimum and not last very long. And if it were to turn out that you are able to handle it then you can gradually increase the dose until you're free of withdrawal symptoms and then taper off again very, very gradually and very, very slowly until you're off it. One way to do so would be to use a digital scale (which can easily be found on ebay) if you were to use tablets. However, the smallest weight they can measure is 0.001 g (i.e. 1 mg). That's the case with the ones that cost around £10 - £20 pounds anyway. But you might be able to find more expensive ones that can measure even lower weights.

 

Here's an SA link to using a digital scale:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1596-using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses/?tab=comments#comment-6765

 

 

Another option would be to use a liquid version instead. I know there's a liquid version of ecitalopram (i.e. cipralex / lexapro) but am not sure if there's one for citalopram (which is similar but not the exact same thing). There might be though and you could always just ask your G.P. or a chemist to find out. And I think there are also some threads on using liquid versions of ssris (or other drugs) on the forum. Oh, one thing I almost forgot to mention. If you do decide to reinstate, make sure you've eaten before doing so. Doing so on an empty stomach can make you feel nauseous and might thereby make it more difficult to evaluate whether you can handle it or not. I almost threw up once when I tried it years ago and at the time may have mistakenly concluded that it was due to hypersensitivity (which I did and do still have) rather than due to the fact that I hadn't eaten anything all day. Maybe it would have worked at the dose I'd tried if I had been aware of that issue and just stuck with it. Who knows.

 

But anyway, whatever you choose to do, I wish you the very best of luck with it and hope all goes well. I myself am currently experimenting with some supplements that have been suggested to help relieve some withdrawal symptoms, by the way,  (e.g. L-theanine, magnesium glycinate and taurin) and will see how things go. I'm trying one at a time though, of course, so that I can judge them individually. I recently tried a few drops of cbd oil too, by the way, but can't say I recommend it cos I seemed to have had a bit of an adverse reaction to it. But I'm still giving those other supplements a try.

 

Also, I've come across some programs that were mentioned on SA that can apparently reverse brain kindling (which is what's behind the hypersensitivity to ssris and other chemicals) and apparently help heal the brain in general. Here are some links to those programs:

 

Dynamic neural retraining system: https://retrainingthebrain.com/

 

Limbic system retraining: http://www.holistichelp.net/limbic-system-retraining.html

 

The Gupta program: https://www.guptaprogramme.com/

 

Lastly, you may want to also try to improve your nutrition to help with the healing of your brain (rather than just relying on supplements, if that's something you were doing). Here's are a few links to pages that contains some general nutritional tips (you might want to disregard the other stuff either said or being sold though):

 

http://drhyman.com/blog/2010/08/30/the-ultramind-solution-the-6-week-plan-to-heal-your-brain-2/

 

https://www.livestrong.com/article/31908-foods-heal-brain/

 

But I'm sure you can also find lots of information on this topic online.

 

Anway Fontman, I hope that whatever you choose to do that it works out for you. And if you choose not to reinstate then just continue to keep hanging in there. Cos it does get better with time.

 

All the best

 

Dude

 

 

 

 

[Fontman82]

Hey Dude,

 

Sorry can I quickly ask what adverse reactions you had to CBD oil? I’m asking because I tried a drop of it today at 2.5% 

 

Thanks

[Dude]

Hi Fontman

 

Good to hear back from you. Well, I first just took one drop at 5% cbd. At first not much happened. Then I actually felt slightly high, believe it or not. And I know what being high on weed feels like as I used to smoke a lot of it during my twenties. Maybe it was some kind of placebo response, but I didn't actually expect to get high since the THC content in cbd is less than 1% (at least over here where the quality is quite high) as opposed to the much higher percentage found in cannabis today. Then again I'm currently still hypersensitive to a lot of substances, so it may very well have genuinely be caused by that tiny amount of THC.

 

I actually felt quite good at first, of course (as you would when you're a bit high), and my symptoms even cleared up a bit, presumably because it reduced stress and anxiety. So I thought it was probably a good thing. Later on the same day I took another two drops. But after a while I also started to get a headache and felt like my brain was "burning" slightly. And the following day I felt really groggy (like I did years ago on days after I'd smoked too much weed) and also quite aggravated / angry. Still, I thought it might abate once I got used to it and just took another three drops on the second day. But the result was the same so I stopped taking it.

 

Bear in mind that that was my experience with it. Also, I'd been briefly exposed to some chemical contained in a cleaning substance someone was using where I work the day before, and that may have been the main cause for my reaction. But I do think that the cbd caused a minor reaction too.

 

How has it been for you? Cos remember that we're all slightly different biologically and it may not affect you the way it affected me. But if you think it has then I'd suggest you try something else instead.

 

Regards

[Dude]

Hi again, Fontman

 

I just wanted to let you know that I'm leaving the forum for personal reasons. It was nice knowing you and I wish you a good recovery.

 

Take care

 

Dude

[Fontman82]

Hi Dude, I’m sorry to hear that. I always liked you and appreciate the responses. I hope you’re doing ok. It was nice knowing you too my friend. Take Care

[ChessieCat]

It's important for this information to be in your Intro topic:

 

On 6/2/2018 at 4:53 PM, Fontman82 said:

I NEED HELP AND ADICE! I think I've had a bad reaction to CBD oil, I'm having a full blown panic attack as I type this. I've been taking it for 6 days now. One drop every morning. Yesterday evening I felt a little odd, angry and agitated. This morning I awoke to a strong feeling of panic which went into full blown panic attack mode. I beleive it's deff the CBD oil because apart from GAD I've never had a panic attack in years. I'm not on an SSRI, I hope it's not mild serotonin syndrom. I'm really freaking out! I wonder if I should go to hospital. Not sure they can do anything. Not felt ill like this in a while. 

 

On 6/2/2018 at 5:30 PM, Fontman82 said:

Thanks, I'm trying to calm down, I just forgot what a panic attack feels like, woke up at 7.40 like a bomb had went off.  The CBD was helping with my GAD during withdrawl and it seemed to really help, but yesterday after 6 days on it, I started getting agistated and angry and silly things which is not me, I felt a little weird but not panicky. I've only been taking 1 drop every morning. It's just the 2.4% one as well. I think for now, I'm deff going to stop using it.

 

 

On 6/2/2018 at 5:32 PM, Fontman82 said:

Oh I got it from a store in the UK, brand is called Daiba, they have a website.

 

On 6/2/2018 at 6:31 PM, Fontman82 said:

Ok sorry for the dramatic message. The panic attack has subsided. I forgot what it felt like. I haven’t had one in 6 years even when withdrawing from Citalopram.and I forgot what it was like having one. I’m exhausted. I really hope it’s just a one off because of the CBD oil. I didn’t take a drop today. I read it takes a few days to get out your system. 

 

 

On 6/2/2018 at 6:54 PM, Fontman82 said:

I just I haven’t set myself back too much. I was doing better somewhat. 

 

On 6/2/2018 at 9:39 PM, Fontman82 said:

I’ll try, kicking myself for making myself worse. Has anyone had a bad reaction to CBD and how long did it last before it went? 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by ChessieCat

[Fontman82]

Thanks ChessieCat , my mistake.

 

Well i'm a lot better now, no more panic attacks since stopping the cbd oil. I forgot what having one was like, been about 6 years since I've had a full on panic attack. Awful. I'm feeling slightly better these days as my anxiety is down and depression is not as bad. I'm still suffering from tinnitus in my right ear and the stiff neck which is really irritating me and the myoclonic jerks while resting. I've also noticed I have a weird heart beat thing bear my belly button, so if I lie down and just relax, my belly dances up and down. I think it's been there the whole time during withdrawal and I just didn't notice it as I definitely know it wasn't there before all this mess. I looked it up online and it could be any number of things including an anxiety response. I'm also experiencing dizziness and de-realisation most of time but it goes up and down in intensity. 

 

I mean, although this is bad and I'm not in good health, I think for someone who CT'd and failed at reinstating, it could be a lot worse. I hope what I'm experiencing is the worst of it or has been the worst of it and I'll continue to heal. I know I might have worse days and hopefully better days, but we'll see.

 

I'm going to get my ear checked, could just be a cocindience but i've had a sticky ear (wax buildup) and I'm yet to get my ear cleaned, I guess deep down I know it's because of the drugs like my neck and when cleaning it doesn't help I'll know for sure, which is a bummer but I'll get it done anyway. 

 

Anyway, Thanks Guys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fontman82]

As the months go by, I'm not sure if i'm better or worse. Things have changed, I know that much. At the moment I feel like I suspect a lot of us feel, like you're life is on hold, like a weird dream like state. It's a shame this dream state doesn't feel great. My tinnitus has never left me, it's been nearly 7 months, deep down I suspect it's permanent. I've been trying to learn to live with it, ignoring it, which works most of the time but sometimes it does get the better of me when at it's loudest. I use noise to mask it. It's strange going from someone who use to just go to bed and sleep to someone who must have some kind of audible distraction everynight prepared. Usually I play a TV show as it's kind of like getting a bed time story read to you, the comfort of knowing the characters and hearing their voices repeat. It's kind of pathetic this is what my life is now.  

 

Then there's the stiff neck which I've had 4 months now, which I feele every second of everyday, I personally think it's mild cervical dystonia but I think it would be difficult to get a diagnouses as there's no visible symtoms, or even spasams, just a really tight/shortening as it feels of neck muscles at the back. If I bend my head all the way forward, it really feels like it's stretching the musle more than it ever did in the past before all this. Not that stretching helps, it's not painful, just very irritating.  It's also no so fun feeling dizzy all the time, when I turn direction, feel like my head is spinning like I'm drunk.  But I'm like everyone, just trying to keep me head above water, there's plenty to complain about in this nightmare we are in. I'm not relgious but I did pray to god just incase. Can't hurt. 

 

I've been offered a Job I really want, working on Hollywood films post production, which is what I did before all this, but it pains me because I fear it will just make me worse, but how do I know, it may help me get out there more instead of being in the house wasting away watching TV all day. I really lost a lot of motivation in my life, going from what I was to someone who can't be bothered to tidy his apartment or do anything. I use to play games, loved playing video games, but these days I can't be bothered. Thanks Guys  

[RealMe]

6 hours ago, Fontman82 said:

I'm not relgious but I did pray to god just incase. Can't hurt. 

I used to believe a certain fairy tale about my chemical imbalance, but nothing in my life has made me more "religious" than these withdrawal symptoms!   I agree that covering all the bases can't hurt, and meditation is definitely something that helps me.  It doesn't have to be religious.  Anything that trains my mind to concentrate on something other than my pain is helpful.  I do it no matter how I feel because I think it's good for my poor brain, and I hope it encourages neuroplasticity (getting the brain back to normal functioning).

 

6 hours ago, Fontman82 said:

As the months go by, I'm not sure if i'm better or worse.

I used to feel that, but in fact when I look at the overall picture of my functioning, it's obvious that I am better.  I have waves, but the overall picture is definitely improving.  I couldn't eat or get off the couch or take care of hygiene.  I was constantly in such dark thoughts I thought I couldn't survive them.  Now at a minimum, I can make my bed and take a shower.  Not thinking specifically about feelings but accenting behavior, can you tell if the big picture is improving?

 

6 hours ago, Fontman82 said:

I've been offered a Job I really want, working on Hollywood films post production, which is what I did before all this, but it pains me because I fear it will just make me worse, but how do I know, it may help me get out there more instead of being in the house wasting away watching TV all day.

Good for you!  You have an important talent.  I am a retired teacher, and I just couldn't work at substitute teaching even though I wanted to at first.  Finally, I pushed myself to sign up a day here and a day there.  Once I agreed to do it, I knew I had to show up and so I did.  I couldn't do it often, but it definitely helped.  How wonderful to have such a creative talent.  Not many people can do what you do--work on Hollywood films!  You don't have to be perfect, and I found that somehow I was able to teach teenagers even though less ordinary functioning was beyond me!  I hope you say yes to the job and don't feel you need to be perfect.  You will be extraordinary!

 

Thank you for looking in on me.  It was a lovely distraction for me to read through all your posts and progress!

xo RM

[Fontman82]

Hi RM,

 

Please forgive all the grammatical errors in my last few postings, I really should proof read what I write. Thanks for the kind words but I'm nothing special, i'm just an artist who sits on a computer digitally removing actors wires and things so you can't see them in the frame. I use to really enjoy it, that kind of work but these days I don't enjoy being on a computer working as my neck feels tight which makes me so uncomfortable but at the same time, I know I need to live with being uncomfortable as for now, that's my life. I think because I read that if you ct'd (stupid I know) , you're screwed! it's always been in the back of my mind that I'm always going to suffer physically which makes me anxious but I think even with a slow taper you can still get lot's of physical symptoms. So I'm drug free, and it's too risky to try anything to see it will help. I Just have to accept what happens happens,  I'll think about taking the job, but I'm in two minds. 

 

I think I have improved overall, I just hope things don't get any worse. I know what you mean about dark thoughts of doom and gloom. I'm only 36, I feel sorry for my wife to have a husband like me, although thank god I can still laugh and Joke, so some of the old me is still there. I also spend way to much time lying on the couch and oversleeping which I do a lot, I think it's because I don't want to face the world, so when I wake, I force myself back to sleep. 

 

It's cool you use to be a teacher, what did you teach? I also enjoyed reading your posts  I see you're from NY, always wanted to visit there, looks like a cool place to live! 

[RealMe]

On 6/25/2018 at 7:28 PM, Fontman82 said:

Please forgive all the grammatical errors in my last few postings, I really should proof read what I write.

Hi Fontman!  I don't think grammatical efficiency is what we're working on here.  😄  You are quite expert at making yourself understood, and that's the important thing.  I taught high school English, mainly 11th grade.  My favorite fiction writers are Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, Arthur Miller,   Yeats, Auden and Orwell; but I also love to read non-fiction, especially essays about writing and recovery from chemicals.  Since I've been dealing with WD I've been reading Glenmullen, Claire Weekes, William Glasser, Breggin, and Johan Hari.  Right now I'm just getting into Presence by McCuddy, recommended by Ogres on this forum.  I read lots on this forum and surf the net way too much about symptoms and cures!

On 6/25/2018 at 7:28 PM, Fontman82 said:

Thanks for the kind words but I'm nothing special, i'm just an artist who sits on a computer digitally removing actors wires and things so you can't see them in the frame.

I think artists are very, very special!

More later,

xo RM

 

[Fontman82]

Hey everyone it's been a while, 

 

Just thought I would do an update, well it's been now roughly 8 months, since trying to reinstate without knowing about how dangerous that was, didn't know about WD, or anything. Just going off doctors advice, you know how it goes. Things continue to change, I think I've improved in some areas but not in others so much, or they've changed for the worse. At the moment, my sleep is pretty great, I sleep almost like I use to, getting 8 hours a night sometimes waking up a coulple of times every now and then, but I quickly fall back asleep, there's no weird dreams like I use to it, so sleep for me is now what I would consider normal. So that's good news. I use to be extreamly hyper sensitive to sound and touch, when my apartment buzzer went off it felt like a shotgun blast of electricity to my chest, same as getting starteled by car doors slamming and things of that nature. That has almost returned to normal, and I'm not as effected as I use to be, so I'm pretty sure that sensitivity is going down. 

 

My memory is slightly better and cognition is better I think but that's it when it comes to improvements, so now I'm going to write about what isn't going so well. Firstly, Tinnitus, it developed about 1 month into my bad reaction to citalopram and it's never left, no change really, it get's louder when I get stressed which I try to keep down. So that's pretty irritating. Anxiety at the moment can get quite high, it was actually better a few months ago but now it's worse. My morning anxiety went away for a while but now it's back, although not as bad as it use to be.  My vision has got noticeibly worse, it's difficult to track fast moving objects and my night vision is terrible, it's also slightly blurred and off, things don't look like they use to, very hard to explain, I went to get an eye test, they say I have a stigmatism, I'm going to try glasses but I don't know if they will help or not because I think there's more going on here than what meets the eye, excuse the pun. 

 

I'm also dizzy and slightly confused pretty much all the time, I find it difficult to focus as I constantly feel like i'm high/stonned. If I turn my head too quickly, I feel really dizzy and my balance is off, feel like s stonned Zombie most of the time which is causing me to become depressed, I still have suicidal ideation because of this feeling of being detached from reality and like I'm losing my soul, or drifitng away from those I love. And then there's the stiff neck which could be Cervical Dystonia, It will be hard to get this diagnosed as doctors tend to muss diagnose this all the time, but even if it's not Cervical Dystonia it's still casuing me a lot of upset, I wake up and go to bed everyday with a stiff neck which really makes me more anxious and brings my mood down. Sometimes I feel totally helpless and just want to not be alive anymore because of this, it's so hard. I've also developed internal tremmors in my hands, my hands don't shake, you can't see it, but they feel like they are under the skin, it's really upsetting.  I also still suffer from myoclonic jerks in random parts of my body, everyday, usually when I'm about to sleep but I can feel them when I'm awake, sitting at my computer or doing something else. I hate sitting at my computer now and spend way too much time sleeping in bed because I just don't feel like doing anything. My abdomin area continues to dance about, it's werid, like having a heartbeat near my bellybutton. I really hate it. Anyway, so I've had just 2 full panic attacks during this whole ordeal that is WD, first was a reaction to CBD oil and the second was to fish oil yesterday, I bought some high quality nordic ultimate fish oil, but I've since discovered it has very high levels of EPA which can trigger anxiety in some people, so I guess I'm one of them. 

 

I'm still praying for a miricle, I hope I improve, I really hope I don't have Cervical Dystonia, but it's been about 5 months of a stiff neck now, not sure if it's ever going away. I honestly don't know how I'm going to live my life now, I do feel despair, quite a lot, and because of that, it makes me not want to be here. But I Love my wife and I have to be here no matter what I have to suffer through, well that thought keeps me going, I pray it's enough to always be the case. 

 

Thanks Guys

[RealMe]

 

On 8/7/2018 at 9:51 AM, Fontman82 said:

I'm still praying for a miricle, I hope I improve, I really hope I don't have Cervical Dystonia, but it's been about 5 months of a stiff neck now, not sure if it's ever going away. I honestly don't know how I'm going to live my life now, I do feel despair, quite a lot, and because of that, it makes me not want to be here. But I Love my wife and I have to be here no matter what I have to suffer through, well that thought keeps me going, I pray it's enough to always be the case. 

Hi Fontman82,

I can't tell by your update or your signature what you are currently taking.  

I'm sorry you are having moments of suffering that give you SI.  I have tinnitus and cervical dystonia as well as noticeable hand tremors, but no longer have SI; so I thought and hoped it might help if I shared some thoughts with you.  I do think loving your wife will help you cope with and reject the thoughts of escape because those thoughts (loving my husband and not wanting to hurt my family) helped me get through the worst of times.  And, of course, hope!  Reading the success stories on this forum definitely helps provide hope.  Are you doing anything to learn how to habituate to tinnitus?  There is trt (tinnitus retraining therapy) that helps.  Have you been to an ENT or an audiologist?  I found out I have hearing loss in the higher frequencies, and a hearing aid helps.  A cervical pillow supports the neck and helps tremendously to relieve neck pain.  Walking in the sunshine lifts my mood.  Meditation helps.  I also consciously allow my thoughts, whatever they are; but then I examine them and reject the ones that are not helpful.

Don't quit.  Keep looking for answers, and you will find them.

xo, RM

[Fontman82]

Hi RM,

 

Nice to hear from you again! I've just updated my signature, I've actually been med free since last December. Thanks, Yeah I get SI all the time, it's not strong enough for me to do something about it, so that's good, it's just there reminding me all the time, like some sort of sick comforting option if I can't take it anymore. But deep down I know I could never do it to my wife so I will always choose suffering over that. At least that's how I feel at the moment. With Tinnitus I mostly just try to mask it these days with TV, fans and other forms of noise, it's not always bad but somedays it can get very loud if I'm stressed. Not that I have a lot to be stressed about, I'm not working, mostly because of my situation I guess. I'm moving Town next month so I'm going to wait before seeing a doctor about it. I'm partially habituating to it as I've been learning to live with it as best as I can, but somedays it does get the better of me. I'll look into trt and I'll make an appointment when I move to see the ENT. Yeah It's a werid feeling with the Tremors,  There in my arms and are mostly just before the wrist, but they are all internal, so you can't see them. They just feel really unsteady and like they are vibrating internally which is a little uncomfortable and annoying. I haven't been diagnosed with Cervical Dystonia, I imagine that's going to be hard for me to get, that's if it is what I have. I suspect it is but can't know for sure unless they say so. My neck is just really uncomfortably tight everyday, like the muscles have contracted and won't let up. But it's not painful at all, no pain, just uncomfortable. So I guess I should be thankful for that at least. I might look into that Pillow thanks, was thinking of trying cold needling, not sure if it will help. I'm practicing mindfullness, it's a very powerful tool but I suspect it takes a lot of time to become good at it haha. To be honest my worst symptom is my eyeslight not being blurry, like I can't focus on fast moving objects, like there's a lag. I'm getting glasses so hopefully they help. But I use to really love playing games and now I can't focus on them which I really hate as I feel like something I enjoy has now been taken from me. I won't quit, I'll try Thanks.

 

How are you doing, sorry I haven't been on here replying to posts very much. I can go into a sorry for myself comma for days at a time lol. 

[Fontman82]

Hey Guys update,

 

It's been 12 months now since I kindled. Some things are better, I'm not as dizzy anymore and my cognition is good. My stiff neck is not as bad but I have other symptoms now. My dexterity in my hands isn't great. My fingers feel stiff all the time and they spasam. My neck skin at the front has weird tingling sensations. That's been going on for about 3 months. The skin around the front of my neck feels sticky and it's just weird. And I still have muscle spasams all over my body sporadically and jerks which I wake to and fall alseep to. I'm beggining to think I have MS or ALS or something because my hands just go so stiff and spasmy I can't type properlly. I'm really scared. I'm going to see a doctor about this even though I've avoided them for a long time. 

 

Thanks

 

Shaun

[wantrelief]

Hi Fontman,

 

14 hours ago, Fontman82 said:

Some things are better, I'm not as dizzy anymore and my cognition is good. My stiff neck is not as bad

It is great that you have seen improvements in some of your symptoms.  Your previous posts also mention that your sleep has improved.  I am sorry to hear, however, about the other symptoms that have appeared.  I think they are most likely related to withdrawal as this drug induced mayhem can cause the strangest symptoms leading us to think we have some awful disease.  It sounds like you are going to get everything checked out which will hopefully give you piece of mind.  I think it is a really good sign you have seen improvements in some of your earlier symptoms as this proves your body is healing. I really empathize with your feeling scared.  It is hard not to when our bodies and minds are seemingly out of our control.  I am glad you posted and let us know how it goes with your appointment.  Best wishes - WR.

[Fontman82]

Hi WR,

 

Sorry I've replied late, I didn't realise I had a message, normally I get a notification. oh well. At the moment, I have some blurred vision, it's really strange, I wear glasses now and that makes things in focus but I can't focus on moving objects, it's like I'm blind but not blind at the same time. Very hard to describe, so strange. My hands are abit better from time to time, I believe it's damage to my dopamine causing issues with those. Maybe a mild form of Dystonia. Things have improved in some areas but it's always changing, sleep is amazing now, I wake now and then but most of the time. I'm doing really well thanks in that department. But things are always changing, a few weeks ago, I started getting breathless and then that went away. I don't need to tell you, but the myriad of symptoms you experince going through this, it's hard to keep up with.


I haven't been to the doctors yet, to be honest I just hate the thought of going, I want to tell them I've been suffering and it's because of a bad reaction to Citalopram but I know they will just say it's me and it's all in my head. I feel angry mostly at them.Now I don't have doctors support, If I go to them, I'm not sure what even to say. I should get some things checked out but I don't even know how to get treated wihout mentioning where it all stems from.

 

Well atleast I have you guys for support so thanks. I really miss my old life so much.

 

Thanks WR.

[Theo]

Hi Fontman,

 

First of all I'm really sorry for your trouble,I can sympathize completely as I've read your story and it kind of reminds me my own.

I started 20mg Escitalopram 3 years ago and it really helped cope with OCD and anxiety.I actually consider this period as the most successful of my life.

Last May I felt confident enough and reduced the dose to half after discussing it with my neurologist.I didn't notice any changes for 4 months,but in September I experienced some stressful situations (moving out of my old apartment and finishing uni) and suddenly all hell broke loose.Physical symptoms started first with insomnia and fatigue and after a couple of weeks complete lack of motivation,intrusive thoughts and anhedonia were added.

I decided to reinstate to 20mg 3 weeks ago since I didn't see any improvement and I felt completely detached from what was going on around me.Actually I resigned from my job about a month ago because I was like a zombie I couldn't even go to the office anymore.

By reinstating my sleep has been improved and I no more have restless legs.The worst symptom is anhedonia because I no longer enjoy even simplest pleasures such as food,music and exercising.Cog fog is still here but not as bad as in the beginning.I also take fish oil supplements but not sure whether they've helped or not.

In the end it's exactly as you describe it,symptoms vary so much that it's difficult to keep track of them.

Keep strong and have a good day!