whatthelol: mirtazapine cold turkey - unexplainable visual problems

March 5, 2018

Hi,

I've had some problems with insomnia in the past that really escalated at some point where I also got severely depressed because of lack of sleep so in August 2017 my psychiatrist advised me to try mirtazapine for a week and see if it gets better. I already got mirtazapine from her a year ago and used it on an as needed basis if I couldn't sleep or if I wanted to absolutely make sure I'll get some sleep.

Anyways... I took it for 6 days and noticed personality changes, lack of emotion & too excessive sedation & stopped cold turkey. (took it a month later too for a few days too due to rebound insomnia that occured a month later and in october where insomnia became very severe, see signature & further description)

10-20 withdrawal symptoms hit me the next day and the following weeks but I didn't realize I could get withdrawal symptoms after just 6 days on this stuff. I thought I was getting a neurological disorder. Haven't had problems with sleep though even a month after cold turkey.

Anyway... about a month in I started getting visual problems. Reading was slightly distorted. It already freaked me out, I almost got a panic attack. But I kind of ignored it.

Now almost 5 months went by since my last dose and it got worse and worse. I've been lurking on this site for a while to find out if I anybody has similar vision problems like me but couldn't find anything that resembles my exact symptoms:

1. From the day I wake up till the moment I go to bed my vision is unfocused. I walk around with a default unfocused stare at nothing in particular.

2. When I try to focus... I see some parts of what I am looking at focused and some parts unfocused. Like the scope of focus got less and less as the weeks and months went by...

When I look at a picture I can't fully see it because I have to focus and look at it from multiple angles to see it all. Like I have to make serious concious effort to see the whole picture

When I read... I can't just read straight lines or sentences. I have to do it completely differently. I am totally compensating for not being able to read correctly because when I focus my eyes I see things partially

focused and partially unfocused. It's not like it's blurred or not there but just not focused. Reading is extremely difficult... and it just got worse and worse every week & month.

Neuroplasticity makes things possible but it drives me insane at this point. It's more and more difficult every week but I force myself to read.

If I look people in the face I can't cover their whole face... I can look in the eyes and see part of the face focused and part of it is unfocused. Or if I look in the mirror I have lots of difficulty just shaving myself because

I can't focus enough space to see the details... I don't even know how such a problem can exist...

If I'm in a room with lots of people I get disoriented very quickly simply because I can't focus suffienct space to have the complete picture so my brain can relax... Well, neuroplasticity helped with that too but it's still very

frustrating. Every day I wake up and think... how's that even possible, lol. It's completely unreal.

If I'm in a room I haven't seen before I feel like I'm in a labyrinth because I have to look in 100 different directions to absorb & focus the whole room because I as I said, I have insufficent focusing scope... there's not even

such a problem... I haven't found on google anything or anybody with very similar problems...

I've been to lots of different opthalmologists and everything comes back normal... My eyes are perfectly healthy as well as visual acuity... my MRI is fine too... In my last visit I got told by an opthalmologists that the problem I'm describing with my vision doesn't medically exist. It's a perception issue most likely caused by the medication.

However I do feel it's pretty tangible... Like the my ability to focus, or the scope of what I focus at with my eyes got less or less. Or more distorted where less is focused? I don't know.

-------

I have about 30-40 different withdrawal symptoms right now. I probably have 10 that are just vision related alone like:

-dark is 2-3 times darker

-poor depth perception

-artificial lights don't feel real & cause derealisation

-dry eyes

-feeling like eyes/brain/body are not synchronized properly or almost like seperate entities that don't communicate together

-"the sensation that my eyes could not accept the input of the objects presented before them: a strained type of feeling upon visual stimulation. pushing a child on a swing would cause great strain on my eyes as my eyes struggled to maintain proper focus on the moving object." (described by another member)

-definately a few more...

Others:

Lots of symptoms of vestibular problems despite completely normal organ function

Hearing disturbances despite completely normal function

Tinnitus that I haven't experienced in this way before

Total Insomnia 1 month after withdrawal (pretty much no sleep after one month) & completely loss of natural sleep cycles by now (perceived)

Akathisia one month after withdrawal

Adrenaline Rushes, Restless Legs, Excessive Wakefulness, Extreme Wiredness while being completely exhausted.

----

Please note that I have put in bold what's specifically important to me. I have lots of symptoms yes, it was and is absolutely unbearable at times... but nothing is driving me more crazy than

the visual symptoms, especially because I haven't found anybody with similar problems and it's kind of bizarre to me...

i wanted to know whether these will go away or at least I want to know what the heck is happening... it's quite tangible in the way that I can tell you that reading got worse and worse week by week month by month, that my focusing capacity got worse and worse... instead of just having my whole visual space focused I only see a fraction focused and the rest unfocused... there are no holes in my visual field or anything medically pathological...

Quote

1. From the day I wake up till the moment I go to bed my vision is unfocused. I walk around with a default unfocused stare at nothing in particular.

2. When I try to focus... I see some parts of what I am looking at focused and some parts unfocused. Like the scope of focus got less and less as the weeks and months went by...

When I look at a picture I can't fully see it because I have to focus and look at it from multiple angles to see it all. Like I have to make serious concious effort to see the whole picture

When I read... I can't just read straight lines or sentences. I have to do it completely differently. I am totally compensating for not being able to read correctly because when I focus my eyes I see things partially

focused and partially unfocused. It's not like it's blurred or not there but just not focused. Reading is extremely difficult... and it just got worse and worse every week & month.

Neuroplasticity makes things possible but it drives me insane at this point. It's more and more difficult every week but I force myself to read.

If I look people in the face I can't cover their whole face... I can look in the eyes and see part of the face focused and part of it is unfocused. Or if I look in the mirror I have lots of difficulty just shaving myself because

I can't focus enough space to see the details... I don't even know how such a problem can exist...

If I'm in a room with lots of people I get disoriented very quickly simply because I can't focus suffienct space to have the complete picture so my brain can relax... Well, neuroplasticity helped with that too but it's still very

frustrating. Every day I wake up and think... how's that even possible, lol. It's completely unreal.

If I'm in a room I haven't seen before I feel like I'm in a labyrinth because I have to look in 100 different directions to absorb & focus the whole room because I as I said, I have insufficent focusing scope... there's not even

such a problem... I haven't found on google anything or anybody with very similar problems...

To quote myself. Maybe point 1 connects somehow to point 2... maybe you have a hint as to what is happening? Maybe receptors for neurotransmitters that are needed for focusing are being destroyed? I have no idea what is going on...

It's limits everything I can do and reduces my life to about 10% of what it was... especially because my job & everything I did was mostly reading & researching..

Can you tell me if this can be symptom of an abnormal withdrawal and if this will go away with time? I seriously don't know how I am supposed to live like this... or how

I am supposed to live like this while it gets worse even further... or how to even deal with a problem that doesn't even exist... lol.

Not real to even talk about it. It's a joke. I feel like the only person who has this. (and I actually haven't come across anybody else lol... so that's weirding me out even more)

I am currently thinking of reinstating mirtazapine in a dose of like 1mg or something for a week in order to see if something improves...

It's been 5 months already... I have 30-40 symptoms with the most bothersome being the ones I've described above and it's getting worse and worse.

Literally had the worst withdrawal effects like akathisia and severe insomnia but the vision thing is really getting me...

I don't see a point anymore in waiting it out.

Looking for some hopeful replies.

Thanks a lot.

March 6, 2018

Hi whatthelol and welcome to SA,

Thank you for completing your drug signature.

Please read Post #1 of this topic: About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

3 hours ago, whatthelol said:

I am currently thinking of reinstating mirtazapine in a dose of like 1mg or something for a week in order to see if something improves...

It's been 5 months already

You might find that even a very tiny dose of 0.5mg EVERY DAY may help. The brain likes consistency. Unfortunately there are no guarantees. It is better to start with a very small amount to see how you react. If after about 1 week you find that the symptoms are still unbearable you could increase by another small amount. It takes about 4 days for the drug to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain. It is best not to panic and increase your dose too soon. Patience is needed. It is important to Keep Notes on Paper so we can see if reinstatement is working. This topic explains how to get a small dose: Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/6380-vision-symptoms-floaters-snow-blurred-or-dimmed-vision-etc-twitching-and-pain/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5742-dry-and-painful-eyes/

Healing is not linear. Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

It is best to make only 1 change at a time. It is also better not to start taking a complex vitamin because if you experience issues you will not know what exactly is causing it. B vitamins can be stimulating especially B6. hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex If trying anything new, start with a small amount to see how you react and build up to the recommended amount.

The only supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil. Try a small amount one at a time to see how you react.

There are many existing topics and discussions on this site. You can use the site search function on the main page of the site at the top right, or use a search engine and include survivingantidepressants.org in your search string.

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

Brain Remodelling

Video: Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

March 6, 2018

Thanks for the info. I've already read most of the threads. But it still leaves my questions/concerns unanswered.

March 7, 2018

Anything?

March 7, 2018

It would be helpful if could list your questions and concerns concisely and separately in list. The mods are also experiencing their own withdrawal and we have times when we have cog fog and are unable to read lengthy posts. I personally have not been able to read your post in it's entirety. Thank you.

March 7, 2018

On 07/03/2018 at 9:23 PM, ChessieCat said:

It would be helpful if could list your questions and concerns concisely and separately in list. The mods are also experiencing their own withdrawal and we have times when we have cog fog and are unable to read lengthy posts. I personally have not been able to read your post in it's entirety. Thank you.

Wasn't aware of that. Sorry for the lack of empathy.

I just had a few questions about my specific symptoms:

From the day I wake up till the moment I go to bed my vision is unfocused. I walk around with a default unfocused stare at nothing in particular.

When I try to focus... I see some parts of what I am looking at focused and some parts unfocused. Like the scope of focus got less and less as the weeks and months went by...

When I look at a picture I can't fully see it because I have to focus and look at it from multiple angles to see it all. Like I have to make serious concious effort to cover the whole picture.

When I read... I can't just read straight lines or sentences. The process of reading is completely different for mebecause when I focus my eyes I see things partially focused and partially unfocused. It's not like it's blurred or not there but just not focused.

Reading is basically extremely difficult... and it just got worse and worse every week & month & my brain always readapts to this.

If I look people in the face I can't cover their whole face... I can look in the eyes and see part of the face focused and part of it is unfocused. Or if I look in the mirror I have lots of difficulty just shaving myself because I can't focus enough space to see the details... I don't even know how such a problem can exist...

If I'm in a room with lots of people I get disoriented very quickly simply because I can't focus suffienct space to have the complete picture so my brain can relax and not get overstimulated because there's so much going on.

If I'm in a room I haven't seen before I feel like I'm in a labyrinth because I have to look in 100 different directions to absorb & focus the whole room because I as I said, I have insufficent focusing scope... there's not even such a problem... I haven't found on google anything or anybody with very similar problems...

Questions:

Is it normal to have such debilitating & bizarre visual symptoms caused by withdrawal? And is it normal that I find myself alone with these kinds of symptoms? What is going on there?

Why did it continue to get worse month by month & week by week even though it's been over 5 months?

Most important question: Will this go away?

Edited March 9, 2018 by ChessieCat
reformatted for easier reading

March 8, 2018

Bump

March 9, 2018

:huh:

March 9, 2018

On 09/03/2018 at 4:38 AM, whatthelol said:

Bump

4 hours ago, whatthelol said:

The mods are unrostered volunteers. As previously mentioned we are experiencing our own withdrawal issues, together with our own life issues. Some of us work, either full or part time. We assist members as we are able. There are also many new members joining each week as well as existing members who need our immediate assistance.

March 9, 2018

This topic (Post #1) might help: what-is-happening-in-your-brain

#50 on this list Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist abnormal visual sensations

I imagine what is happening with you is that the brain isn't interpreting the sight messages correctly.

On 08/03/2018 at 9:24 AM, whatthelol said:

Is it normal to have such debilitating & bizarre visual symptoms caused by withdrawal? And is it normal that I find myself alone with these kinds of symptoms? What is going on there?

I think it's just that you haven't found the posts about similar symptoms. I certain that I have seen members' posts talking about similar issues, but if they are posted in their Intro topic it is difficult to find the. Members might have mentioned similar things in the links I posted previously.

If you go to the symptoms-and-self-care and check out the topic titles you will see that members experience a wide variety of unusual symptoms.

There are many existing topics. You will see the wide variety of symptoms which members experience.

On 08/03/2018 at 9:24 AM, whatthelol said:

Why did it continue to get worse month by month & week by week even though it's been over 5 months?

21/08/17 - 26/08/17 (Started Mirtazapine because of sleep problems Day 1 - 3,5mg Day 2 - 7,5mg, Day 3 - 15mg Day 4 7,5mg - Day 5 - 7,5mg - Day 6 - 7,5mg then stopped without tapering because of personality changes)

September (Sporadic intake of 3,75mg-7mg because insomnia, maybe 5-6 times but September 23th- September 25th (Day 1 - 7,5mg, Day 2 - 7,5mg Day 3 7,5mg)

October (Sporadic intake for 3,75mg -7mg because of insomnia. maybe 4-5 times)

October 13th Last dose of mirtazapine 3,75mg (no taper)

Sorry, I didn't keep track of when exactly I took some dosages in September or October.

Since August last year you have made a lot of dose changes and jumped off at 3.75mg. It may be that the withdrawal symptoms were delayed.

Regarding why you are experiencing issues with your sight. I have found throughout my taper that it is my ears which get affected. I have other symptoms as well, but when I started tapering I had very painful ears and had to updose and the next day they stopped hurting. Another reduction I made my ears were a bit sore but not enough to updose. Recently I've been noticing ear pressure again which because of my earlier experience I am fairly certain is withdrawal. I'm now slowing down my taper.

On 08/03/2018 at 9:24 AM, whatthelol said:

Most important question: Will this go away?

We can't give a definite yes on this but I imagine it probably will. I certainly hope so. When? We can't answer that one either. It's going to take time. Other than remaining as stress free as possible (including good stress). Your brain is busy trying to regain homeostasis, return to its factory settings.

It's helpful to learn acceptance. It helps us not be as stressed about the symptoms. I believe that being stressed means that the brains attention is diverted away to deal with the stress instead of healing. Acceptance

It's important to learn and use techniques to distract from your symptoms. Non-drug techniques to cope

Please don't continue to ask why and when. They are both unanswerable questions. We don't know.

Edited March 9, 2018 by ChessieCat

March 9, 2018

Telling you about my own experience might help you to understand how our brain adapts to getting the drug and how taking it away too quickly can cause issues.

I was taking 100mg Pristiq and reduced by 1/2 to 50mg. I experienced extreme cog fog for 3 weeks. At the end of the 3 weeks I was unable to type. Because I have been a professional typist for 40+ years I knew that something was wrong. I had joined SA a few days before this happened and they had suggested updosing. When I couldn't type I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later I was able to type again and the cog fog was lifting. Because I had a benchmark I knew it was because of the drug.

June 15, 2019

I can relate, i have same same problems with my eyes.How are you feeling?

June 29, 2019

Weekly reduction in awareness of overall surroundings and oneself. Now daily for about 8 months already.

I am running on 1/500 on my normal awareness. (Processing ability) Sounds completely unbelievable but yeah...

I have to learn every day to function with a bit lowered awareness.

Last Dose was october 2017...

Started after quetiapine/mirtazapine CT Take Just for about a week

June 29, 2019

Hello, whatthelol.

Please explain what you mean -- do you mean you feel dazed or foggy? Has this changed at all over 8 months?

June 29, 2019

My awareness is reducing almost daily..

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