killme: off mirtazapine

[killme]

Hi Altostrata thank you for this info. I have just discovered these forums and had not heard of the 10% rule until now.

 

I was on mirtzapaine for about a year and got up to a very high dose of 60mg. It did not help me and I should have been taken off it much earlier instead of increasing the dose higher and higher.

 

Over the last few months I've been trying to taper off it by increments of 7.5mg. Since then I've been getting this horrific feeling of being electrocuted just as I'm about to fall asleep, and am punched awake again. It's left me desperately wanting to sleep but afraid of sleep at the same time because that moment when you're about to nod off then ZAP.

 

I reduced my dose lower and lower and towards the end I sped up my tapering rather than slowing it down as I couldn't stand the zaps and just wanted this toxic **** out of my body. It would have been well over 10% of that dose. I had nobody to guide me through this and didn't realise that at lower doses you need to taper extra slow, not faster. I realise I've been showing all the signs of somebody who's extra sensitive to dose reductions.

 

Now my sleep is even worse than before I started taking antidepressants. I have lost the ability to sleep altogether. No matter what I do, I'm awake all night, and am still getting the zaps. I've been feeling so hopeless I want to die. I often have to take sleeping pills to get any sleep at all, but they usually only give me about 3 hours, a little less. I don't want to get hooked on another drug and then go through this nightmare withdrawal thing all over again.

 

I don't know what to do. What would you suggest? Is it worth getting back on it or just trying to ride this out? Have I done permanent damage to my brain? I need help

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by ChessieCat
added spacing

[Altostrata]

Welcome, killme.

 

I moved your post to start your Introductions topic. You can post questions about your situation and track your progress in this topic.

 

How long have you been clear of mirtazapine? Do you have any mirtazapine left?

[killme]

Thanks for such a quick reply Altostrata! I took my last dose of mirtazapine almost a week ago. I still have plenty of tablets left, I haven't thrown out the packs yet. 

[ChessieCat]

Hi killme and welcome from me too,

 

We ask all members to create a drug signature.  This appears below every post you make.  Please update it whenever you make a change.  This is the preferred format which makes it easier for us to see your drug history at a glance:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[Altostrata]

The zaps were indications you were tapering too fast.

 

What kind of sleeping pills are you taking, and how often?

 

If I were you, I would try 5mg mirtazapine again. We call this a reinstatement. This topic explains how to take a small dose:

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[killme]

I'm so lucky to have found this forum. Thanks for the links. Altostrata the sleeping pills are temazepam 10mg. I try to take them sparingly, but the last few nights I've been taking them each night as I can't sleep at all and am sick of it.

[killme]

It's hard to divide the mirtazapine tablet into such small doses

[Hopefull]

6 hours ago, killme said:

It's hard to divide the mirtazapine tablet into such small doses

Hi Killme,

Ask your doctor to prescribe a 15mg SolTab mitrazapine. It is a dissolvable tablet. Dissolve 15mg tablet in 15mls of water, ( get a medicine cup), and withdraw with the syringe 5mls.

That is how I am tappering.

Don't lose hope,  it will be alright. 

Take care,  Hopefull.

[Santino]

HI Killme

Do not be scared my friend. I swear there life after this.

I had the same electroshocking feeling you are describing at my worse moments. I slowly tapered mirtazapine and now i am getting my life back. Not exactly as before yet but a lot better.

Follow the advice of Altostrada just start some small amount of mirt around 5Mg and keep at it until you stabilize your sleep. Later you can taper using the 10% rule. 

All the best

Santino

 

[degen12]

The difference between 7.5 mg and 0 mg, and say, 30 and 22.5 mg, is enormous. 7.5 mg of mirtazapine is extremely potent. Huge occupancy of H1R occurs at this dose. For reference H1R is completely saturated at 15 mg.

 

Just getting to 7.5 mg is like stage 1 of the withdrawal. Stage 2 is 7.5 mg to 0, which can take a while. This is just my opinion as someone who is currently tapering mirtazapine and was also taking 60 mg upon a time.

[killme]

19 hours ago, Hopefull said:

Hi Killme,

Ask your doctor to prescribe a 15mg SolTab mitrazapine. It is a dissolvable tablet. Dissolve 15mg tablet in 15mls of water, ( get a medicine cup), and withdraw with the syringe 5mls.

That is how I am tappering.

Don't lose hope,  it will be alright. 

Take care,  Hopefull.

Thanks Hopefull, that is a good idea to use a dissolvable tablet and dropper.

[killme]

15 hours ago, degen12 said:

The difference between 7.5 mg and 0 mg, and say, 30 and 22.5 mg, is enormous. 7.5 mg of mirtazapine is extremely potent. Huge occupancy of H1R occurs at this dose. For reference H1R is completely saturated at 15 mg.

 

Just getting to 7.5 mg is like stage 1 of the withdrawal. Stage 2 is 7.5 mg to 0, which can take a while. This is just my opinion as someone who is currently tapering mirtazapine and was also taking 60 mg upon a time.

God it's such a long, tedious process!!!! I can't believe doctors can get away with prescribing this ****. I had no idea it would be such a problem to get off, and it didn't even help me. 

Can someone tell me will these zaps ever go away? Or has this drug and the way I've tapered it sentenced me to a life of torment? I didn't realise the zaps I was getting all along were signs I was tapering too quickly.

I took half a 15mg tablet (so 7.5mg) again last night. Would this be ok or should I go get a prescription for a dissolvable tablet right away so I can make it 5mg? I was able to sleep again at last.... I suspect discovering these forums and knowing I'm on the right track and under the right guidance now helped. 

[killme]

I found out there is a name for the zaps I'm getting: "sleep myoclonus" 

https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Myoclonus-Fact-Sheet

[HopefulOne1]

Hi killme, how are you doing? I just wanted to chime in that the normal 15 mg tablets appear to dissolve in water just fine. 

[PH1]

Hi killme,

 

I'm checking in to see how you are doing.   I'm currently tapering mirtazapine from a 15 mg dose.   I'm now down to 4.8 mg after 4 months and I found I need to take it much more slowly than I have at the lower doses.  I tapered at about 25% of the current dose the first 4 months and am now going to taper at 10% of the current dose every 3-4 weeks here on out.   The goal is to have minimal or no withdrawal systems.   

 

Hang in there.  You can do this!   I hope and pray the best for you.

[killme]

I had a really bad experience with mirtazapine. I have been off mirtazapine for years and still get the feeling of being electrocuted when I'm about to fall asleep at night. I am really concerned about these zaps I hear are common with effexor. My plan was to try 75mg for maybe 2 months and if I see no improvement then wean off the drug. Has anyone got the zaps from only a couple of months on effexor and at a relatively low dose? Will it leave me permanently scarred like the mirtazapine did?

[getofflex]

Previous post moved to your intro topic to keep your history all in one place.  Please post questions and discussion about your situation in this one thread, to avoid confusion and duplication of efforts.  Thank you.  

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Have you taken any other psychiatric drugs in the 4 years since you last posted.  If yes, please update your drug signature.

 

Q:  Do you drink alcohol?  If you do, then you might consider abstaining for a few months to see if that makes any difference.

 

SA is a site for reducing/going off psychiatric drugs, not about what drug to try next.

 

There is no way to know what taking Effexor will do.

 

The effect that taking psychiatric drugs has on the nervous system is cumulative so you do need to take your drug history into account.

 

75mg Effexor is NOT a low dose.  Your nervous system may be sensitised and taking this dose might make things worse.  When trying anything new, even a supplement, SA suggests only trying a small amount to test to see how you react to it.

 

Please note that it can take as little as 1 month for the brain to fully adapt to getting a drug.  After that time you would need to taper it.  You might be able to do a fast taper, but at the 2 month mark a slower taper would probably be needed, so you could end up taking longer to get off the drug than the length of the trial period.

 

Post #1 of the following has links to various helpful information, includes to the tips for tapering various drugs and how to get non standard doses.

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ 

 

[killme]

Is it possible to get zaps/bad withdrawals from being on effexor for only a few months and at a relatively low dose e.g. 75mg?

[killme]

Effexor

 

Hi, so I was on this forum years ago as I was having trouble getting off mirtazapine. I felt like I was being electrocuted just when I was about to fall asleep at night and would jerk awake. This STILL hasn't gone away completely! I am still severely depressed and have now been prescribed effexor. I am really concerned about these brain zaps I hear are common with effexor and how hard it is to get off it. I have tried so many antidepressants and none have helped. I was hoping this one might be able to help me but now I don't know if it's worth it? My plan was to try 75mg for maybe 2 or 3 months and if I see no improvement then wean off the drug. Is it possible to get the zaps/bad withdrawals from only a couple of months on effexor and at a relatively low dose? Will it leave me permanently scarred like the mirtazapine did?

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[Rosabell]

It is absolutely possible. I’m not saying it is definitely gone by to happen, but it sure can. I missed a dose about a month after I first started on 37.5 and got the zaps and withdrawal symptoms. 

[ChessieCat]

I was taking Pristiq / desvenlafaxine which is a cousin of Effexor / venlafaxine.  When I missed a dose I would get brain zaps.  Once I missed 2 doses and the brain zaps were so bad that even lying down with my eyes closed if I moved my eyes without opening then I would get a zaps and a horrible sickening/nauseous feeling.  Once I took my dose and it had a chance to take effect then the brain zaps went so it was definitely the missed dose/s that caused it.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Altostrata]

@killme withdrawal symptoms are a risk from any antidepressant taken for 30 days or longer. We cannot advise you what drug to take to treat your depression.

 

If your "severe depression" is emotional anesthesia, it's very possible it's an aftereffect of going on and off the antidepressants and other psychiatric drugs you've taken since 2016. Many people here have experienced this. It can last years, and very gradually goes away without further drug treatment. See

 

Derealization or Depersonalization

 

Overwhelmed, demotivated, apathetic? Cannot get going on interest or action

 

Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Journaling / Journalling / Writing therapy / Therapeutic Writing

 

Withdrawal dialogues and encouragement

 

"Is it always going to be like this?"

 

The importance of recognizing you're feeling good

 

"Forest bathing" reduces cortisol, aids mood, immune system

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

[killme]

Hi all, thank you for the replies. I stayed on Effexor for a month at 37.5mg (well actually a little less than that- I dropped down to two of the three beads inside the capsule). Not long after I started the Effexor I started getting this tingling, vibrating sensation on my scalp. Sometimes it feels like something is crawling through my hair. It's always in the same spot. I put up with it as I was starting to feel better mentally, especially when another doctor diagnosed me with ADD and prescribed a stimulant Vyvanse. But apparently I was TOO good. I became manic, which I loved, but then it all turned so horrible. I started getting panic attacks, dissociating really badly, having an existential crisis and the doctors even think I was psychotic. I ended up in hospital. In hospital they took me straight off the Effexor without weaning. I have been off it for about a month now but my scalp is still vibrating. It is upsetting me so much I want to die. I'm so scared that it will never go away and the Effexor has scarred me for life now. Does anyone know what it might be? It was kinda there before I went off the Effexor so not sure if it's just the withdrawals. 

[Faure]

This all sounds like the after effects of taking psychiatric medication.  I’m sorry for all the things that have happened to you and that you are feeling depressed and in despair. It is very frightening but people do recover from this, it’s just it can take a long time. Alto has give you some useful links, so do have a look and try some things suggested. You might like to read some success stories of people who have healed where you will see people do recover from symptoms like yours. 

 

Medications may make some people feel better for some time, but in the long run they are bad for our brains and we have to learn to live without them if we want to be fully healthy.

 

You say you were still experiencing zaps after stopping the mirtazepine, then a doctor prescribed Effexor to an already sensitised and upset nervous system, further disturbing the balance your brain was trying to achieve. Brain zaps are a common withdrawal effect and will subside over time. It is important that your brain has time to sort out the chemicals it has had disrupted.  Adding any other drugs to your nervous system will likely disrupt things further and could prolong your suffering. I know it is horrible right now and you are suffering and you want things to be better. Unfortunately the only thing we know of that makes things better is time and stability. 

 

There is a talk later today that you might find helpful, if you are feeling up to it:

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[Altostrata]

@killme Effexor and Vyvanse do not appear in your signature. Please update your signature.

 

8 hours ago, killme said:

I put up with it as I was starting to feel better mentally, especially when another doctor diagnosed me with ADD and prescribed a stimulant Vyvanse.

 

During what period were you taking Effexor with Vyvanse, at what dosages?

[killme]

Thanks Faure. I want to be off everything but my sleep has been horrendous so I am taking 5mg of olanzapine. My case worker thought it may even help with the vibration sensation, which he thought might be a tactile hallucination. I doubt it, they seem to be interpreting everything through the lens of psychosis now. The sensation is still there. I think the Effexor has ***** up my nerves. 

Altostrata, I was only taking Effexor with Vyvanse for a couple of days. I was prescribed 30mg of Vyvanse and took half that for a few days, then took the full 30mg and that is the day I ended up in hospital. At this time I was taking a small dose of Effexor- two of the three beads in the 37.5mg capsule.



 

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, killme said:

I was prescribed 30mg of Vyvanse and took half that for a few days, then took the full 30mg and that is the day I ended up in hospital. At this time I was taking a small dose of Effexor- two of the three beads in the 37.5mg capsule.

 

I am utterly confused. Neither Vyvanse nor Effexor appear in your signature. I can't follow your chronology.

 

What is your current withdrawal-related problem?

[killme]

On 9/26/2022 at 3:12 AM, Altostrata said:

 

I am utterly confused. Neither Vyvanse nor Effexor appear in your signature. I can't follow your chronology.

 

What is your current withdrawal-related problem?

I need to update my signature.

I don't think it is a withdrawal problem. I think the Effexor screwed me up right from the start. I started getting this vibration sensation when I started it and it has not got any better or worse since coming off it. 

[Altostrata]

Do you mean the Effexor you took in July 2022? Were you taking Vyvanse at the same time? What other drug changes occurred in June and July?