Scotty

[ChessieCat]

If it is vaginal thrush you can use suppository treatment.  For mouth thrush you can use topical treatment.

 

I suggest you also look at what you are ingesting that may be causing/contributing to it.

 

I think it would be better to try other methods first to see if you can get rid of it.

 

candida-or-protracted-withdrawal

 

[Carmie]

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Many thanks for your reply and your advice Carmie. Looks like I'm best to avoid a medication I need.  It's scary to confront yet again the extent to which these drugs continue to affect our bodies months and years after we stopped taking them. 

I'll start researching natural methods of treating candida. Wonder if anyone out there has any suggestions!

 

Hi Scotty, 

 

You’re very welcome. Coconut oil is antifungal. I’ve used it to kill viruses and bacterial infections, but it can also help with fungal infections. You can use it topically as well as swallowing it. 

 

I just had a look at the effectiveness of it and found there was a study done that showed that less coconut oil was needed than fluconazole to kill candida, it was a 2007 lab study. Just google it. 

 

I’ve also used olive leaf extract to kill viruses and bacterial infections, but it too is antifungal. People in withdrawals sometimes can’t cope with certain supplements though. I’ve had no problems with it. 

 

That being said, if you kill off candida you will end up with die off, and that might make you feel sick for a while, and even ramp up your symptoms for a while. It will pass, just thought I’d let you know if you start worrying about feeling worse. It will eventually settle. 

 

Take care, let us know how you go.💚

 

 

 

[Scotty]

Hi Chessie Cat - thanks for your response as always, and the link to resources. My candida outbreak is on my skin, specifically u der the breasts - sorry if this falls under the heading of too much information! 

[ChessieCat]

Betadine liquid (not cream) works.  It's what they use to wipe the skin with when they operate.  It works for tinea, ring worm and jockette itch, all fungal issues.  I've recently found out that it might get rid of fungal toe nails, so I'm trying that.  You will need to use cotton wool, or a cotton swab or make up remover pad, or even a small piece of old cloth, like a hankie on or old sheet.  Don't use toilet paper or tissue because it breaks up.

 

I've used it for jockette itch.

 

I was having issues with an over hanging tummy and used to use tineaderm powder spray but I started to react to that.  Now I dry the area after a shower and use spray deoderant to try and keep the area from getting problem to begin with.

 

PS it might be a bit messy but I can't remember it staining my clothes.  However I wouldn't wear your best underwear whilst treating it.  You will need to continue treatment for at least a week I think, possibly longer.  I haven't researched that.  You could ask a pharmacist.

[Scotty]

Hi Carmie - once again thanks for all the helpful information - I will certainly google that coconut oil study, and indeed all the other natural methods available. My doctor suggested apple cider vinegar. 

Thinking it over I realise it’s quite a complicated situation, so it’s hard to tell what’s what and which way to go. Is the candida itself making withdrawal worse? If so might it be better to go in hard with medication, endure severe dieback and get rid of it quickly? 

Or do the natural methods greatly minimise dieback symptoms...and if so does that make them preferable?

Hasten to add I’m not expecting you to have answers to these questions...just issues that popped into my head as I thought it over. On the whole I think I will go with the natural methods. 

By the way I just noticed that you’re  in Oz...g’day to you,  thanks again and best wishes for your good health. 

[Scotty]

Thanks Chessie Cat....that sounds like a simple practical solution....I will google as you suggest and chase up the Betadine tomorrow. I’ll also cut up some of my old cotton underwear to place under my ‘pendulous breasts’ as the doctor described them. Not much danger of spoiling my good underwear by the way...it’s all looking pretty shabby after over a year of withdrawal. Thanks again for your advice. 

[Scotty]

Hi everyone.

I just clicked over my 12 months off milestone - took my last speck of Zoloft on May 31 2018.

April - the 11th month - was by far the best yet. Most days were windows - it was pure joy and I really believed recovery was in sight. Great while it lasted, but another miserable wave in May showed me that I was somewhat prematurely optimistic. 

Just over two weeks ago I had an extremely stressful morning, and that afternoon started to experience palpitations  - as I have occasionally during withdrawal. Had them investigated a year ago - verdict nothing serious. Since then they’ve been comparatively rare and not a worry as they’re such a well-documented wd symptom. This time I became a bit concerned when they persisted on and off for a week so decided to go in to emergency. To my surprise and dismay they kept me in hospital for three nights. Of course they discounted protracted withdrawal as a possible factor - just looked sceptical and a bit embarrassed for me! Tests showed my heart is in good shape but diagnosed something called ‘atrial tachycardia’  for which they prescribed the beta blocker Metoprolol. Started taking 100mg while in hospital and it’s made me feel really ill - utter exhaustion, bit of nausea, weird depression. I feel like it’s even intensified my anxiety...or coloured it a different shade...I’m in a strange and scary distraught head space. 

Does anyone have any experience/insights into any aspect of this? Anyone else had a similar diagnosis? Can beta blockers have a detrimental effect on withdrawal? Should I persist with them...or ditch them now and ride out the palpitations knowing my heart is in good condition and the palpitations are probably just wd? It’s probably common to be medically treated for symptoms that are in fact transient wd - and the treatments just do more harm.

Might be relevant that I’m an oldie...nearly 71.

This feels like such a bitterly disappointing setback. Would be most grateful for any knowledge or guidance you have....

[Songbird]

Hi Scotty, we aren't doctors here, but I think it's possible there may be some supplements that could potentially help with this - e.g. magnesium, vitamin B12, and others - so that you could avoid having to take drugs.  Ideally you'd work with someone who knows their stuff in this area - would you be able to find a doctor of integrative medicine to work with?

 

You could also try relaxation exercises:  Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

[RichT]

Hi Scotty,

 

have you checked out the side effects of metaprolol? They match very well what you’re feeling. I copied this from the uk NHS website..

 

• dizziness 
• tiredness 
• blurred vision 
• cold hands and feet 
• slow heartbeat 
• diarrhoea and nausea 

Less common symptoms include:

• sleep disturbance (insomnia)
• loss of sex drive (libido)
• depression  
• problems getting or maintaining an erection (impotence)

Best wishes,

 

Rich

[Altostrata]

First, hurray for April! Your recovery is moving forward.

 

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

Started taking 100mg while in hospital and it’s made me feel really ill - utter exhaustion, bit of nausea, weird depression. I feel like it’s even intensified my anxiety...or coloured it a different shade...I’m in a strange and scary distraught head space. 

 

Sounds like either the dosage is too high, or metaprolol is the wrong drug for you.

 

Taurine is a good supplement for cardio calming, see Taurine (L-taurine amino acid)

 

There's also L-Theanine for anxiety, insomnia  which usually has a very gentle effect.

 

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see

https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

Are you getting at least a half-hour of gentle exercise, such as walking, every day? This is a tune-up for the nervous system, makes everything run more smoothly, and gets more and more important as we get older. Inactivity makes the nervous system flabby.

[Scotty]

Hi Songbird. Many thanks for your advice - your suggestion about finding an integrative doctor is very helpful. I haven’t as yet tried any supplements  - I’m wary of self-medication even with them and definitely need some guidance in this area. The links you gave me also look useful and relevant. I really appreciate your response to my post and wish you all the best for your own recovery. Scotty

[Scotty]

Hi Rich - many thanks for replying to my post. Looks like I am super-sensitive to medication as I have most of these symptoms and feel really quite unwell. It was really useful to see them listed so I appreciate your trouble. Hope your own health will continue to improve. Thanks again - Scotty.

[Scotty]

Hi Alto. Many thanks for your response to my post. It certainly seems that Metoprolol is not the medication for me, as you said.

 I saw a GP yesterday - given that my heart is sound, she has advised me to come off it slowly. 

Your links and suggestions about supplements were very helpful - I’m planning to see a doctor who has expertise in alternative medicine to guide me in this area. 

Thanks also for reminding me that I had a good hopeful April - it’s been all too easy to sink into despair, especially at my age. Sometimes during the darkest nights I’ve feared I may die before I have a chance to recover.

Thanks finally for creating and maintaining this brilliant website - especially given that you have been in withdrawal yourself. Don’t know how I could have managed without the advice, the information and most of all the contact with other people that you have made possible. 

[Songbird]

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

I haven’t as yet tried any supplements  - I’m wary of self-medication even with them and definitely need some guidance in this area. 

 

Yes, you're right to be cautious with supplements.  In withdrawal (and post-withdrawal) our systems don't always respond as expected.  When trying anything it's a good idea to introduce only one thing at a time, and start with a very low dose to see how your system reacts to it then gradually increase as you're able to tolerate.

[Scotty]

Yes Songbird - I plan to be super-cautious....as you say, our systems are hypersensitive, even to natural medicines. Thanks again for your help.

[Scotty]

Hello again out there. A bit of an update from my last post describing the problems which arose after I was recently hospitalised with palpitations and prescribed 100mg of the beta-blocker Metoprolol. Seems there is nothing wrong with my heart, so doctors told me to come slowly off the medication. They seemed quite unconcerned and reassured me I’d be fine. This I did, but the palpitations have continued - a vicious cycle as they are probably caused by anxiety - so I sometimes simply have to take a BB. 

(I haven’t yet been able to investigate the supplements kindly suggested by Alto and other members....I just can’t seem to make myself do anything...feel too exhausted even to take constructive action.)

My symptoms have now ramped up frighteningly ...akathisia/doom cloud worse than I’ve ever known before, so bad I’m literally clutching my head with anguish. Also intense flushing and a terrible weakness...feeling that it’s an effort even to lift a teaspoon. I’m 12 months completely off Zoloft and have been through many waves and windows...but is it usual for a wave to be so extreme this far out? For symptoms to change their nature and become even more intense? June has been by far my worst month with no window days at all. Could all this be caused by an interaction between ADWD and a very small dose of Metoprolol? And of course - despite all the encouragement form this website and all the techniques I’ve learned from my psychologist - the despairing thoughts will come...this must be a serious organic disease....I’ll never recover from this. I’d be grateful for any insights from the community.

[Scotty]

Hi out there...just an additional question from my previous post. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for dealing with acute akathisia, or as Brassmonkey calls it, the Doom Cloud. It’s such a frightening symptom - has come back into my life with a vengeance. Or are there any sections of the website that give guidance about this? Would be grateful for any response.

[Scotty]

Just reaching out for help again as I’m going through a crisis, something of a spiral. Following a recent admission to hospital to investigate palpitations - nothing organically wrong - I’ve experienced a return of akathisia...the doom cloud....with a vengeance. My head feels like it’s being crushed in a vice. It’s very frightening and I’m finding it so hard to endure. Could it be linked in any way with the beta-blocker Metoprolol which I was prescribed? Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for coping with this symptom? Would be grateful for any response.

[ChessieCat]

Contined on 25mg until 24 February 2018 - reduced to 20mg. 

3 March - reduced to 15 mg. 10 March - increased to 17.5 mg.

12 March - returned to 15 mg .

Continued to taper down. 1 June -  ceased taking Zoloft altogether.

 

 

Hi Scotty,  I've asked the other mods for assistance.

 

 

Please add the year and dose you jumped off from to your drug signature.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Sassenach]

Hi Scotty

 

How are you feeling now?

Please do as Chessie has asked, without the full info the mods cannot analyse the effects of the drugs.

I know it is the last thing you feel like doing but in order to help you, we you need to help us.

You are not going to die.

We all feel like it sometimes but there is a way out.

 

Sassenach

[manymoretodays]

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

Just reaching out for help again as I’m going through a crisis, something of a spiral. Following a recent admission to hospital to investigate palpitations - nothing organically wrong - I’ve experienced a return of akathisia...the doom cloud....with a vengeance. My head feels like it’s being crushed in a vice. It’s very frightening and I’m finding it so hard to endure. Could it be linked in any way with the beta-blocker Metoprolol which I was prescribed? Does anyone have any advice or suggestions for coping with this symptom? Would be grateful for any response.

Hey Scotty,

I'm guessing that your final Zoloft was in 2018, June.

"Continued to taper down. 1 June -  ceased taking Zoloft altogether."

^ from your signature

With a fairly rapid taper down from 15 mg in 2018, March

 

How long have you been on the Metoprolol?

And yes, go ahead and follow the link that ChessieCat gave you to clarify dates.  You might add the starting date of the Metoprolol, and dosage, as well.

You can update signatures(the portion you might see below posts) from cell phone devices, but they are not viewable from phones.  Best to use a computer, if you have access to one.

 

Can you access Drugs.com

One of the common side effects of Metoprolol is depression.  Just enter it into the top search box and you'll find more about this medication.

You mention akathesia, as well as the doom cloud, and then the feeling like your head is being crushed in a vice.

Tapering Beta Blockers or Alpha Blockers

Beta Blockers: Propranolol, Metaprolol, Atenolol, etc.

more information and discussion on site in ^ on Beta Blockers

If I were you, I think I'd work with your prescriber, be it Cardiologist, or GP as well here in managing any blood pressure, or cardiac problems that may have been identified.  At the very least, attempt to have a discussion with them.  I do see where Alto has weighed in here on your Metoprolol, on June 5th, with some alternatives you might consider.  Oh, and Songbird too, in the post above that!

 

That last symptom, the head symptoms, pressure, I can/could certainly relate to post all psychotropics, and for me, it tended to occur when emotional stressors(big ones too, deaths, and relationship changes) occurred.  I found non-drug coping methods that helped, and certainly would recommend any stress reduction that you can do now. 

 

So, I think some of your symptoms may well be related to WD, even now, possibly just a bit past a year off your Zoloft.  I'll just add in the general link to our Symptoms and Self Care forum and then I'd highly recommend looking at some of the non-drug techniques for coping (they are all nicely indexed in the first post of that second link).

 

And hugs Scotty. 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by manymoretodays

[Scotty]

Hi Chessie Cat - I’ve amended my signature as you asked. Hope it is clearer now. I’ll need to put my Metoprolol details in a separate post as I can’t fit them into the signature. Yet again thank you for your response - means so much that you are out there.

[Scotty]

Hi manymoretodays and thank you so much for your full and helpful response. I’ve amended my Zoloft story as Chessie Cat suggested.

I will include Metoprolol details here as they won’t fit in Signature.

 

2019 Metoprolol

Given 100mg during emergency hospital admission 24 - 27 May for heart palpitations. Battery of tests showed no organic heart problems.

Continued on 100mg for 10 days post-hospital. Bad side effects: heightened insomnia, strange depression and dysphoria, nausea, weakness. 

June 7 saw GP who told me to taper off over 5 days and said I could use it as needed when palpitations hit. Review with cardiologist confirmed this.

Followed this plan - continued taking 50 mg approx every 2 days. Rebound palpitations and side effects continued. 

4 days ago resolved to stop taking Metoprolol and ride out palpitations, which have slightly diminished, although other effects still bad.

 

So it seems that the original palpitations were due to withdrawal/anxiety, and as so often for us the cure has proved worse than the disease! And the taper too short even after so little time. I’m still  bewildered that I seem to have such extreme reactions to very small amounts of medication...it was an increase of 25mg of Zoloft that precipitated my original adverse reaction and started this whole weary journey. Before this hospital admission I was making some progress with my recovery, so of course such a major setback is hard to bear.

 

Thanks for mentioning that you can relate to my head symptoms. It helps so much to have direct contact with someone else who has shared a difficult experience - particularly with ADWD where friends/family puzzled and a bit impatient, and doctors irritated and sceptical. Even it have trouble believing it sometimes! 

 

Thanks also for all the other helpful links which I’ll follow up. I am so grateful for the work you and the other Moderators do on this brilliant website - can’t even imagine where I’d be without you. The isolation would be terrifying.

 

Hugs and good wishes for you on your journey. 

 

 

 

[Scotty]

Hi Sassenach. I have updated my Zoloft details in my signature as you and Chessie requested. I put the details of my Metoprolol in a response to mmt as it wouldn’t fit in the Signature. 

Thanks for asking how I am...it’s been a very bad few weeks and I’m still feeling quite unwell. Nights and early mornings are the worst - sometimes it’s hard to believe that I’ll survive this....even worse, sometimes I hardly care. As I keep saying, don’t know where I’d be without this incredible website...no doubt it’s a saviour for so many people. Thanks for everything you do.

Just as an afterthought - have been rewatching the tv series Outlander on Netflix recently and it’s helped to get me through the toughest times. Don’t know if this will mean anything to you...but the main character is called Sassenach by her partner. 

Best wishes to you. 

[Sassenach]

Hi Scotty

 

Apologies for taking so long to get back to you.

I am a junior mod and it takes the senior ones to analyse drug schedules but I am here to ensure they have all the info they need.

I know when you are feeling dreadful it feel like the last thing you want to do but is essential info particularly if a new drug is involved. 

I was diagnosed with a liver condition 17 years ago, the consultant was brilliant but every med they tried made me really ill.

She eventually came to the conclusion that I was naïve to drugs ie. had never really used even headache pills.

My body reacted badly and still does, so if I have to take a med it is at half dose and that usually works for me.

The palpitations are annoying but keeping busy either distracts or puts them into the background for me.

Alto's comments re. exercise are important if you can do it, you may not feel like doing anything but get started and then it gets better.

Supplement are rarely recommended on here so Alto's suggestions above are something she believes will really help

 

Fish oil and magnesium are normally the only supplements recommended on here.

I am sorry you have been pushed back to this after doing so well, but you also know you can and will get past it.

Outlander watched first two series but not got any further yet.

Sassenach means English incomer and now has a slightly derogatory meaning, but I live in a small village and everyone is great.

I hope you are feeling a bit better and we are here for support to help you gain momentum.

 

Sassenach

 

[Scotty]

Hello again out there. Sadly more miserable details of the last terrible couple of months. Wish I could get to a point where I could possibly help others on the site but unfortunately I’m still stalled in this self-focussing space. I’ve had some bad luck with medical interventions which seem to have led to major withdrawal setbacks.  As already described, I was hospitalised a couple of months ago to investigate possible heart problems...was put on beta-blocker Metroprolol which caused various unpleasant symptoms. Then about 2 weeks ago a routine blood test revealed that I was low in iron. My doctor ordered a fecal blood test which to my horror came back positive. Of course this meant that I had to have a colonoscopy - for this I went into hospital as I felt too fragile to complete the preparation at home, and it was quite a traumatic experience, particularly as health anxiety has always been a serious problem for me. Seems at this stage that the outcome is good, though I won’t receive the full results for a couple of weeks. But I haven’t bounced back... my anxiety has ramped up to a kind of screaming point where it is almost out of control. My relaxation practices don’t seem to be working at all - it is far worse than it ever was...I can hardly leave the house. My GP, family and friends are all united and loud in their opinion that this cannot possibly be ADWD and that I cannot recover without medication. I’m due to see a psychiatrist next week.

Can very stressful experiences lead to such a major setback?  I’d expect some degree of reaction of course but nothing quite this severe. Has anyone else gone through something like this  then managed to get back on track with their recovery? As always I’d be very grateful for any insights, experience or links you may have. 

 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Were you given any drugs for the colonoscopy?

 

That by itself may have increased your withdrawal symptoms.  And normal stress and anxiety of undergoing a procedure as well as the worry will definitely cause them to increase.

 

Add that altogether and you have a perfect storm.

[Scotty]

Yes, was given drugs to sedate me for the colonoscopy. Plus they started the preparation very late so I was awake and on the loo all the previous night. So in state of high anxiety for many hours.

Is this extreme relapse likely to settle down? Are there any links to related material on the site?

As always, thanks for your help Chessie Cat.

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on this site.  I like to use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

 

colonoscopy

 

[Scotty]

Thanks for the link Chessie. Do people usually recover from a serious setback like this and get back on track?

[Scotty]

Hello to the community. It’s been some time since my last post, and now 22 months since I took my last fragment of Sertraline. Still struggling with what has turned out to be a very protracted withdrawal. Only in the last couple of months have I noticed some sustained improvement - sleeping better, less anxiety, fewer palpitations, generally feeling stronger and more optimistic. Ironically I was even preparing a post about some of the things I felt had helped me.  
Then the Coronavirus horror hit our world, and the lockdown rules were rolled out. As background, I've been in a relationship for over 30 years but I don’t live with my partner - we spend approximately half the week together. Here in Australia there has been quite a bit of confusion about the fine details of the regulations - at first it seemed that partners who didn’t live together were not even allowed to visit each other.
This rule was later reversed but not before I was plunged into a wave of anxiety worse than anything I’ve ever experienced, even in the early days of withdrawal. The week since then has if anything been worse...I feel like I’m marinating in an intense toxic anxiety that hasn’t always dissipated in the evening as it usually does. It’s horrible!! And strange, as even though I’m elderly and in a vulnerable age-group I’m not especially worried about getting the virus...perhaps more the social dislocation involved. 

Obviously this is a response to the global anxiety and distress we all feel at this unprecedented situation. Only to be expected that withdrawal effects would be heightened....but it’s dismaying to have symptoms that are actually worse than previously....at nearly 2 years off.
Are there any others out there who have had similar experiences? How have others reacted to the Coronavirus threat? Would be most grateful for any comments.

 

PS...does the site still display recent comments as they come in? I wasn’t able to access them. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Scotty.

 

Yes, you should still be able to View New Contents, click on the Activity tab at the top of an index page.

 

First, it's good to hear you've been doing better in recovering from post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS).

 

Unfortunately, many people with PAWS are still quite sensitive to emotional upsets, especially anxiety. Please do what you can to calm yourself down, this wave will pass.

 

From what you've written, it seems you'll be able to see your partner as usual? Please stay safe, both of you.

[Scotty]

Dear Alto,

 

Many thanks for your response - it meant a lot to hear from you. I guess my greatest fear every time -  in spite of my best efforts at self-talk -  is that I have some sort of permanent brain damage from which I’ll never recover. So it was good be reminded that - however bad - this is a wave and will pass. 
 

Yes, under current regulations I am able to see my partner, which is a huge relief. 
 I do hope you are well and safe in a comfortable spot. Your experience and guidance is so much appreciated.

[Altostrata]

I am doing well, thank you. You're welcome.

[Scotty]

Further questions Alto if you would not mind. Firstly...in the couple of days since I wrote my post, my symptoms have ramped up to a point where they are barely endurable. Is there hope of them stabilising given this situation of unprecedented stress?

And secondly, we are going unto winter here down under, and we're being urged to have the flu injection. Is it safe to do so?...I  know that some vaccines can make withdrawal worse. 

Thanks again...grateful for any advice you may have.

 

[Altostrata]

I would get a flu vaccination and any other vaccinations that are appropriate. We had pneumococcal vaccinations available here, for certain types of pneumonia.

 

Unfortunately, you cannot do anything about the world situation. It is stressful for all of us. Please apply your stress and anxiety management techniques to this as well as recovery from withdrawal syndrome.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism