lorrainec: Venlafaxine and mirtazipine

[lorrainec]

Hi, my first post on this site and hoping for reassurance of some kind.

I stopped taking venlafaxine and mirtazipine 6 weeks ago. Mirtazipine I tapered extremely slowly but venlafaxine xr I tapered from 75mg over 6 weeks. I had been on both meds for 15 months. I have had some good days within this period  (although first 3 weeks was horrendous) I have now completed my 6th week off antidepressants but the last few days I am becoming tearful again accompanied by retching and fatigue and a sense of sadness.  Is this normal after this period? I was diagnosed with very low vit D and have been taking them now for 9 days. Also just had flu! Logic tells me this may be the cause, but the crying and low mood is worrying.  Ideally I do not want to reinstate any antidepressants and would really appreciate views from fellow sufferers. 

Many thanks 

Lorraine 

[ChessieCat]

Hi lorrainec and welcome to SA,

 

You may have tapered too quickly and as a consequence are now experiencing withdrawal symptoms.   Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

The only known way to reduce withdrawal symptoms is to reinstate the drug.  Please do not go back on the last dose you were taking.  Your brain will have already made some adaptation since you have been off the drug.  It is better to start with a small amount and take a little bit more if needed than to start with too high a dose.  Once we have more information about the drug and dose you were taking we can suggest a dose for you to try.  Please carefully read Post #1 of this topic:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

We ask all members to create a drug signature.  Please update it whenever you make a change.  Please keep it nice and simple.  We only need details for the last 2 years.  Date, drug and dose only, no symptoms or diagnoses.  The other years can just be an overview.  

 

This is the preferred format which is helpful for the mods.  Thank you.

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 2 years particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 2 years ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

I'm going to give you lots of links to check out.  Please don't feel overwhelmed, just work your way through them one at a time as you feel able.

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold at that dose for about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  This is because psychiatric drugs create a physiological dependence, not physical like caffeine or nicotine.

 

Patience is needed to get off these drugs.  We suggest throwing out the calendar and listening to your body and your symptoms.  If after 4 weeks you don't feel stable, are unwell or life circumstances are a bit more stressful than usual (for example the Christmas period, winter time, or job change) it is better to stay at that dose for a bit longer until things settle down.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

About going off mirtazapine plus venlafaxine (Effexor) aka "California rocket fuel"

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

Tapering Calculator - Online

 

The only supplements which SA recommends are Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil.  Try a small amount one at a time to see how you react.  It is best to make only 1 change at a time.  It is also better not to start taking a complex vitamin because if you experience issues you will not know what exactly is causing it.  B vitamins can be stimulating especially B6.  hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex  If trying anything new, start with a small amount to see how you react and build up to the recommended amount.  

 

Even with a careful and slow taper you will most likely experience times of discomfort.  It is best to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope

 

There are many existing topics and discussions on this site.  You can use the site search function on the main page of the site at the top right, or use a search engine and include survivingantidepressants.org in your search string.

 

As I said, lots of information, but I really want you to have what you need so you can have a successful taper.

 

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.  We suggest that members visit each others Intro topics so that can support and encourage each other.

[lorrainec]

Many thanks for your wonderful help and information.  I am reluctant to reinstate, but will do so if things don't improve or get worse over the next couple of weeks. I feel I have come to far to turn back (that's the stubbornness in me!) right now I just want to give discontinuation a good shot! I will use your information as a fantastic tool to work with. It has given me hope!

Thank you so much

Lorraine 

[DaddyCee]

Hi LorraineC,

 

Welcome.... how are you doing today?

 

DC

[lorrainec]

Hi, thank you so much for asking. Not good at all today.  Anxiety, nausea and depressed. I visited the GP today and was put back on a low dose of venlafaxine 37.5.  I am finding things really difficult at the moment. As also tearful accompanied with an upset stomach. I hope reinstating will help. So fed up and sad.

Thank you again for asking 😊

Lorraine xx 

 

[DaddyCee]

No Problem.

 

If you don't mind me asking, why were you put on the meds in the first place?

[lorrainec]

Hi, I was made redundant after 25 years in the same job, then my granddaughter became very unwell and hospitalised, the next thing I knew was I was laying in bed staring at the wall and wishing for death. I felt so bad and couldn't work out What was happening  to me. This was in 2016. I was so ill on citalopram  and remained bed ridden for six months, no energy, no brain! No improvement. Finally I saw a psychiatrist who added venlafaxine to my mirtazipine.  I then started to improve. Now after discontinuing its all down hill again!

[DaddyCee]

Thanks for the details.

 

It does sound like you are going through the discontinuation process, which will steadily improve given time. Try to eat healthy, drink loads of water and stay away from any triggering events i.e. news stations, adrenaline fuelled or scary movies.  Stay away from Alcohol and Caffeine, they will increase anxiety which will upset your already fragile nervous system.

 

The process of recovery is not a linear one and as mentioned you will probably start to recognise the "waves and windows" pattern.  This should be very encouraging and again over time you will see that the windows become longer and the waves not so intense.  When you are in a wave, try to ride it the best you can by remembering to breath correctly.  There are some great YouTube videos covering deep, relaxing breathing which will help.

 

Have you tried meditation? I know it sounds whacky but it helped me loads, along with regular Reflexology sessions and the occasional Massage.

 

I hope this post helps you in someway.

[lorrainec]

Hi Daddycee 

How wonderful you are! Thank you so much for your support .

After reinstating 37.5 yesterday, I am feeling so much better today.  😊

I Hope you are doing well? 

Kindest regards and warmest wishes

Lorraine 

[DaddyCee]

Hi,

Awww! bless you for your kind words.

 

Which med have you re-instated? have you a tapering plan moving forward? or are you going to work on getting stable and then assessing your situation?

 

I'm doing really well... over 4 years out now and all I can say is life truly does get better

[lorrainec]

Wow! 4 years off meds, you are doing amazing. I reinstated venlafaxine and notice a big difference today. I think I need to stabilise then try again. When you were in recovery did you find regaining confidence difficult? At 57yrs I wonder if I can pick up the pieces at this late stage in my life. 

I guess this is where positive thinking needs to kick in!

Thank you again x

 

[DaddyCee]

Thanks for the kind words. They help with my confidence.

 

When I was going through recovery, I would say that my confidence was seriously impacted. It was difficult to not think that I was slipping back in to my old ways. But saying that I learnt a great deal about how my body and mind tick. I know now that if I go too long without eating I start to get anxiety feelings. I have to eat little and often. I also discovered that Alcohol was no good for me, and I have, to this day given up Alcohol. I am scared to even try it now as I don't want to mess up the hard work that I have put in. Also I feel that Alcohol to me is a depressant, so even though I didn't really suffer from depression apart from when I was going on to the medication and then when I attempted the many times to get off from it, never in between and never before I had my first anxiety episode.

 

I believe that you will definitely recover, you just need to get stable and then re-assess the situation when you are in a better place.

 

This forum is a great source of information and there are some very knowledgeable people on it.

 

If you feel that the forum acts as a trigger then take a break from it, we will always be here when you feel up to returning. You need to take good care of yourself and have plenty of "me" time.

 

I wish you all the success in the world.

 

Peace and Love,

DC.

[lorrainec]

HI DC

I cannot thank you enough 😊 thank you for sharing your experience, I really appreciate it. Right now I am on day 6 of reinstating. I have no appetite, constant nausea  and fatigue is my constant companion.  It feels like I'm back to square one! Logic tells me I will get better, but right now it seems this may be later rather than sooner! I have learnt a valuable  and costly lesson in terms of not tapering correctly.

Thanks so much for your time DC

I wish you continued good health 💛💜

 

[DaddyCee]

Hi,

 

How are you doing today? Has the reinstatement started to work?

[lorrainec]

Hi DC

I am doing much better but seem to be more anxious than normal. Still love to be by myself which is not ideal given I have a large family. Hopefully I will get back on track. I have been taking diazepam when I get desperate.  

I Hope you are well? And how wonderful it is to know, you really understand what I am talking about. My family try to understand, but their expectations of  me, signals they don't get it!

Onwards and upwards (Hopefully 😊)

Thank you DC for your support x

 

[DaddyCee]

Hi,

 

I hope you are well. Sorry for not replying sooner, where does the time go?

 

Taking Diazepam in the short term will be of use, but like all these drugs don't get hooked habitually. It's a slippery slope and one that can take some time to get out of.

 

Wishing you all the best on your continued journey.

 

DC.