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Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike


Altostrata

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I so wish that would be the case for me, LexHex, about the duration of time on the drug. I had no problems with this at all until just recently when I took 4 tiny doses of amitriptyline. The panic lasts all day and night now and I've been off it 8 weeks, just worsening by the day at this point. I cannot work now, and my physical symptoms have made me unable to sleep. I do a lot of walking and eat healthy (when I can stomach any thing). Do you still take atenolol?

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Yes, I still take the atenolol. It gave me back a lot of the control I lost, although not all of it. I still have moments, but I don't spend any time in the ER anymore, I don't wake up climbing the walls or feeling like I need to run out of my skin. I take 12.5mg at night and 12.5mg in the morning. Every single day. I am not drug averse. If it helps, it stays. I tell everyone I speak with on this forum, if I could go back to Lexapro without the kindling effect I got when I tried to reinstate, I would do it in a heartbeat. I only stopped because I thought I was cured. A competent doctor would have told me in the beginning there is no cure, and that the drug was for life. Then I would have just accepted it and moved on. Instead, I lost five years of my life to withdrawal. Never again.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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  • Moderator Emeritus
45 minutes ago, lexhex said:

A competent doctor would have told me in the beginning there is no cure, and that the drug was for life.

 

This is a myth which we strongly discourage on this site.  Each member needs to make their own decision on whether they feel they need to be on any drug.

 

Other members please see:

 

What is Medication Spellbinding? Simple Truths in Psychiatry Video #3 by Dr Peter Breggin

 

and this:

 

On 16/06/2011 at 4:45 AM, Altostrata said:

- Insisting on nonsense about the causes of so-called psychiatric disorders and withdrawal syndrome. You'll need to do a lot of reading and credible citations to come up with original plausible theories.

Red flags for nonsense often found in pop psychiatry:

  • Reliance on the "chemical imbalance" theory or that mental disorders are due to some kind of neurotransmitter deficiency.
  • Claims that mood disorders are "brain disease,""diseased nerve pathways,""damaged signaling" etc.
  • Reliance on neuroimaging or brain scans.
  • Assigning specific functions to specific neurotransmitters ("dopamine is responsible for pleasure"). All neurotransmitters are multifunction; normal functioning depends on their all operating together.
  • Making sweeping generalizations about "depression." One huge problem in psychiatry research is that there is no one definition of "depression" and studies use different measures for it.
  • Publication in biological psychiatry journals.
  • More to come, I'm sure.

The "chemical imbalance" or "serotonin deficiency" theories for mood disorders, which were in vogue for about 20 years, have been disavowed by medicine. There never was any basis for this. If a doctor tells you that is the reason for your distress, the doctor is wrong, misinformed, or not being straightforward with you.
 
This is also true of alternative or "natural" practitioners. The "chemical imbalance" theory is invalid wherever it pops up.
 
The "chemical imbalance" theory or its variants does not bear discussing any more than does a theory that says the sun revolves around the earth. It is a waste of time. This site will not add to the dissemination of this misinformation. Expect credulous discussion of such to be discouraged on this site.
 
See Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please. and Ronald Pies says doctors tell patients the "chemical imbalance" lie as a favor

 

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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What is a myth? That these drugs are a lifetime commitment?  If you have any understanding of pharmodynamics and pharmokinetics you know that once on these drugs, they make PERMANENT changes to your brain chemistry and metabolism. Permanent - as in forever. Most people fall into this category and are impacted for years. Responsible medicine INFORMS in advance so patients can make an educated decision.

 

Whatever your issues are with the so called chemical imbalance myth promoted by mainstream psychiatry have nothing to do with my position or my statements, and the thought policing is unnecessary. My statements related directly to the drug, not to the condition I was being treated for, which wasn't part of the discussion. Instead of listening to reply, next time listen to understand. 

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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  • Moderator Emeritus

My response was made as a general comment to other members who may read your post and not directed specifically towards you.

 

Please keep this discussion on topic going forward.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Your response quoted directly from my post so it absolutely was directed at me. I have been a member on this forum since 2011. My understanding about the site's purpose was to provide a platform where people who were struggling with withdrawal could find each other and share their experiences. At no time was there an implied agreement that a specific philosophy of thought would be promoted or encouraged, and that experiences had to conform to an agenda. I was asked a specific question about my experience and I gave a specific answer. You didn't like the answer I gave, which is irrelevant, unless YOU have an agenda.

 

Now we're done.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

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  • Administrator

Please stay on topic. The argumentativeness is unnecessary.

 

There is no doubt that if you take any drug at all, your body is changed. That's what drugs are for.

 

We don't know to what degree, or to what extent, the body systems revert to their original state. The passage of time, aging, and normal hormonal status also cause changes. You can't step in the same river twice.

 

The philosophical question of "What does "permanent" mean?", given time and environment change even granite monuments, is something to ponder while you're trying to sleep. It might be a very effective sleep aid.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So does having cortisol spikes always mean you wake up really early at 4:00 or so??? I sleep until about 9-10 usually and once I wake up I have about 10 second or so before I am hit with the most awful anxiety, panic and depression of my life. All I want to do at that point is cease to exist. Early after my initial CT I was waking up at like 4-5 but now I am able to sleep late but the anxiety once I wake up is awful. Does anybody get worsening depression from cortisol too? I think cortisol is the culprit for most of my symptoms as generally I feel better once the sun goes down and its night time. Not sure what's up with that to be honest. 

Drug History:  Zoloft(sertraline) since 2008. Was up to 100mg/daily before CT in May 2017. Reinstated 3 weeks later at 50mg.

                          September 10, 2017 Updose Zoloft to 62.5mg

                          Current dose as of 5/11/2018  50mg Zoloft and 0mg Remeron

                        Remeron(mirtazapine) started June 2017. Accidental CT after 1 month. Reinstated 7.5mg on 9/26/17 after hospital stay.

                        Current Symptoms: Depression, Anxiety, DP/DR, Anhedonia, SI, Tinnitus, Fatigue

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Waking with panic or anxiety - managing cortisol spikes
On 10/8/2011 at 11:39 AM, Altostrata said:

The natural cortisol level starts to decrease in the afternoon.

Is this maybe a reason when I try to take a nap(around noon-2) as I'm falling asleep I wake up with a surge of anxiety, meaning there is no jerk or physical twitch, just good old dread. I can feel myself drifting off and dreaming but it's usually within the first five minutes. Sometimes I have shaking. 

1997 prescribed zoloft 50mg

1997-200? several failed attempts to get off the zoloft.

2000's dosed up to 100mg

dec 2015 zoloft seems to not work and I didn't want to keep on  it.

June 2016 started weaning off 150 mgzoloft using inositol

November 2016 finished zoloft

Dec 2016 crashed, back on zoloft

February 2017 started L-tryptophan

March-July 2017 weaned off 150mg zoloft

 

 

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Yes, I do this too if I fall asleep while meditating. My adrenals have really been struggling for well over a year now. I hope they can hold up!

Effexor XR 300 (brand) mg & various SSRIs 15 yrs (Effexor XR 300 mg past 10 yrs

Clonazepam, 1.0 mg. am, .5 mg pm. - 15 yrs, 7-17-16- Began .5 three times a day

Vyvanse 60 mg, - 2 yrs, Cut to 50 mg for 6 mths, Cut to 30 mg. on 4-1-16. Tapering.

Approx. 4-1-15 began Effexor XR 300 taper, very slowly for a year. Held at 37.5 for about 3 mths. Cut to 18 mg for 2 wks to 0. WD began 2 wks later. Depression, anxiety, paranoia, low appetite, nausea.

7-14-16-Reinstated 5 beads Effx after 4 mths misery.Pooped out 10 days.

9-12-16-to present- Wide eyed terror, bedridden fear, no appetite/feeling of being full.

10-30-16- Began 15% liquid tapering of 30 mg Vyvanse. (25 mg)

11-13-16- Liquid Vyvanse 22 mg,11-27-16- Liquid 15 mg, 12-12-16- Vyvanse 12.5 for 5 days. 12-16 - 12-29, 15 mg.

11-20-16- Switched back to 1.0 clonazepam am & .5 bedtime

12-30-16- Moved to 15 mg COMPOUNDED Vyvanse.Current 4/11-4/25 7.5 mg.(10% ev 2 wks) Off Vyvanse

Current meds:Effexor XR- 3 Beads, Clonazepam-1.0 mg am, .5 mg bedtime,Vyvanse-(tapering) Estradiol- 2

mg,Progesterone 200 mg,Testosterone 30 mg/ml,Nature Throid- 48.75 mg.(12-21-16-65 mg.) (4-18-17-81.25 mg) Current supplements: Fish Oil-1360 mg, Curamin- 2706 mg.

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  • 2 months later...

I'm having the cortisol spikes every morning. I've tried numerous methods and nothing works. I was just put on lexapro 16 days ago to help with my mood and panic disorder. Previous I had withdrawn from nortriptyline in August cold turkey. My system is definitely not working right. I have start up effects of lexapro and withdrawal still from nortriptyline. I have no idea which end is up. Sleep is horrible and my anxiety is through the roof. I feel like this is a hopeless situation. I had one doctor suggest getting off ssri's and taking triliptal bc he feels it would heal the neurons. Does anyone have any experience with this?

2007 to March 2017- celexa 40mg; buspar 15mg twice a day; amitriptyline 10mg

April 2017- Nortriptyline 30mg

August 1st- amitriptyline 25mg; Prozac 10mg

August 6th- amitriptyline 25mg; celexa 20mg

August 9th- amitriptyline 35mg; 5htp 50mg; celexa 20mg

August 14th- serotonin toxicity all meds were stopped

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Trileptal induces many drugs. On its own it may help but mixing it with other drugs is not something I would do again. If you want to know what it did to me, you can read my thread. I have been tapering it for 3 years and am approaching 50%  cut. Tapering it has helped my other drugs stay in  my system longer so MAYBE I will be able to start tapering them. I started sleeping much better ( not great) but much better after about a 20% cut. That pattern continues. However, it has probably made my other meds have more side effects, which has caused other problems. Sleep is my bottom line though. Trileptal speeds up, or induces 50% of all drugs. Most charts list Tegretol as a major inducer but many are now including trileptal (oxcarbazepine) as well. It is basically one atom different than Tegretol.  Just read about it. Your doctor will likely think it is not a worry, but trust me, this is a drug I would recommend to no one. 

 

Saving Grace

  • amitriptyline from 1980-2002,
  • intermittent  use of benzos over 2 decades prior to 2002
  • 2002-2010 Klonopin 1-2 mg., ambien 10--20, mg, remeron 4 mg. and  trileptal 300 mg
  • 2011 Stopped ambien and crossed over to valium 17.5 mg. (updosing 2.5 mg. to cover ambien C/T )
  • tapered valium w/ long holds to 12.74 mg. from a high of approximately 20-30 mg/day
  • 2015-2023 tapered trileptal to 98 mg.  had to completely stop tapering due to multiple chronic, serious health issues
  • currently 2024 still on 98 mg. trileptal and 4 mg. remeron
  •   Currently on benzo hold as I have to cross-over from brand-name valium to generic diazepam.   The diazepam is way weaker and brought on severe acute w/d
  • Current dose of diazepam is 7.9 and valium is 6.6.  I had to up-dose the total valium/diazepam from 12.74 to 14.5 where I have stayed since June 2023.  I am crossing over to generic at a somewhat tolerable rate of .3mg/month after about 2 months of trial/error w/ updosing.  I am not currently tapering; will continue to cross over. 

 

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1 hour ago, Cinnamon7 said:

I'm having the cortisol spikes every morning. I've tried numerous methods and nothing works. I was just put on lexapro 16 days ago to help with my mood and panic disorder. Previous I had withdrawn from nortriptyline in August cold turkey. My system is definitely not working right. I have start up effects of lexapro and withdrawal still from nortriptyline. I have no idea which end is up. Sleep is horrible and my anxiety is through the roof. I feel like this is a hopeless situation. I had one doctor suggest getting off ssri's and taking triliptal bc he feels it would heal the neurons. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Yes. Every morning. What I try to do is get a half night sleep, instead of full, to use the sleepiness as a "drug" itself. That gets me a bit further through it. Sleep deprivation. Measured. Maybe it will work for you.

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Here's just one link I found citing Lexapro and trileptal interactions:  https://online.epocrates.com/u/1042285/Trileptal/Drug+Interactions

 

Trileptal never helped me sleep.  It interacts with over 50% of all drugs.  Charts do not show 50% of all drugs, but everything I read about carbazepine and oxcarbazepine agrees that it has this effect, mostly inducement.  The CYP450 charts do not list interactions between trileptal and lexapro but if you scroll down on this link, it will show that it should be monitored.  Trileptal is a very powerful drug.  Some (many) people have no trouble going off it.  However, if you have a destabilized nervous system like I do (though you don't have my terrible drug history), it is likely to wreak more havoc with your already de-stabiized system.  Though I do not believe adding in more drugs is the best answer, if your doctor insists on adding in something neurontin (gabapentin) would be much safer as it doesn't interact with other drugs the way trileptal does.  In my opinion,  trileptal should be used only as an anti-epileptic for severe cases.  As I said, I have other worsening side effects (or withdrawal/) as I go off it (nerve pain) but other things have changed markedly.  I wish you luck.  I really do.  I HATE this drug and think it is more toxic than valium and remeron which I hate also.  I don't think doctors understand it at all and prescribe it w/o knowing what they are really doing.  It also has 7 inactive ingredients, which makes it even more toxic to your body.  (remeron has 3 and valium has 5, I believe) I have become increasingly chemically sensitive so getting this out of my body has become my priority.  Hopefully it will enable me to get the other toxins out, albeit as a snail's pace, which is where you end up once you have destabilized enough.  I do not intend to scare you.  Far from my intentions.  I hope to stop you.  If your doctor knows something I need to know, please let me know but in 5 years I have not come across one doctor who understands what this drug (or inducement) does.  I have learned it all the hard way.  I am nearly bed-ridden but hope to stop others from making the same mistake I did....trusting my doctor.  That was 15 years ago before the internet was at my finger tips and so much research helped me connect the dots.

 

I agree with Spacely.  Sleep deprivation will definitely give you better quality sleep but in my case, it makes me dangerously depressed and makes my debilitating spinal pain and GI dysfunction worse, so it is not an option for me.  Sleep is my bottom line, though I have come to "accept 5-6 hours" total as okay having been a person who always needed 9 hours to feel normal.

 

Feel free to ask questions or PM me at any time.  I don't mean to over-whelm but I am passionate about not letting what has happened to me happen to someone else.  There are not many people on trileptal cocktails here.  BTW, I meant trileptal is only one molecule different than tegretol, supposedly reducing the above effects.  I don't really think there was much difference.  Just the second generation of a toxic drug, marketed as less toxic.

 

Grace

 

Grace

  • amitriptyline from 1980-2002,
  • intermittent  use of benzos over 2 decades prior to 2002
  • 2002-2010 Klonopin 1-2 mg., ambien 10--20, mg, remeron 4 mg. and  trileptal 300 mg
  • 2011 Stopped ambien and crossed over to valium 17.5 mg. (updosing 2.5 mg. to cover ambien C/T )
  • tapered valium w/ long holds to 12.74 mg. from a high of approximately 20-30 mg/day
  • 2015-2023 tapered trileptal to 98 mg.  had to completely stop tapering due to multiple chronic, serious health issues
  • currently 2024 still on 98 mg. trileptal and 4 mg. remeron
  •   Currently on benzo hold as I have to cross-over from brand-name valium to generic diazepam.   The diazepam is way weaker and brought on severe acute w/d
  • Current dose of diazepam is 7.9 and valium is 6.6.  I had to up-dose the total valium/diazepam from 12.74 to 14.5 where I have stayed since June 2023.  I am crossing over to generic at a somewhat tolerable rate of .3mg/month after about 2 months of trial/error w/ updosing.  I am not currently tapering; will continue to cross over. 

 

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Spacely,

 

The last 3-4 pages of my intro explain more about my trileptal journey, though it has been part of my tapering process all along.  Hope I didn't scare you away with too much information or too many warnings!  Just one to save someone from the same downward spiral I continue to live in...

 

  • amitriptyline from 1980-2002,
  • intermittent  use of benzos over 2 decades prior to 2002
  • 2002-2010 Klonopin 1-2 mg., ambien 10--20, mg, remeron 4 mg. and  trileptal 300 mg
  • 2011 Stopped ambien and crossed over to valium 17.5 mg. (updosing 2.5 mg. to cover ambien C/T )
  • tapered valium w/ long holds to 12.74 mg. from a high of approximately 20-30 mg/day
  • 2015-2023 tapered trileptal to 98 mg.  had to completely stop tapering due to multiple chronic, serious health issues
  • currently 2024 still on 98 mg. trileptal and 4 mg. remeron
  •   Currently on benzo hold as I have to cross-over from brand-name valium to generic diazepam.   The diazepam is way weaker and brought on severe acute w/d
  • Current dose of diazepam is 7.9 and valium is 6.6.  I had to up-dose the total valium/diazepam from 12.74 to 14.5 where I have stayed since June 2023.  I am crossing over to generic at a somewhat tolerable rate of .3mg/month after about 2 months of trial/error w/ updosing.  I am not currently tapering; will continue to cross over. 

 

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  • 1 month later...
  • Moderator Emeritus
On 2/4/2012 at 8:18 PM, Altostrata said:

When your adrenals are doing such a good job of producing cortisol, the anxiety hormone, as they do in antidepressant withdrawal, if you stimulate them, you will get an unpleasant increase in anxiety or wakefulness.

 

Don't take adrenal support supplements, adrenal extract, adrenal tonics, or anything containing licorice.

Grrr! I wish I had known this when I went to see the naturopathic doctor who "helped" me with withdrawal. He prescribed me licorice root tonic. I think the people who do this kind of thing are actually exacerbating the situation for a lot of people. There are no magical supplements that will immediately bring your system out of the trauma of a psych drug withdrawal. 

 

2020: After 18+ years (entire adult life) on Paxil, a dangerous doctor-led "taper" in 2015, and four years tapering off the last 1 mg thanks to SA and the Brassmonkey slide, 

I AM COMPLETELY FREE OF PAXIL! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Forever.

 

2021: Began conservative, proper, CNS-respecting taper of Zoloft, led by the only expert on me -- me. Making own liquid. 5-10% plus holds.

2022: Holding on Zoloft for now. Current dose 47 mg. Hanging in, hanging on. Severe protracted PAWS, windows and waves. While I may not be doing "a lot" by outside standards, things are graaaaadually getting better

 

Yoga (gentle to medium); walks; daily breath practice; nutrition, fruits/veg; nature; water; EastEnders (lol); practicing self-compassion, self-care; boundaries; connection; allowing feelings; t r u s t ing that I, too, will heal. (--> may need to be reminded of this.)

"You are not alone, and this is not the end of your story." - Baylissa

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I drank licorice root tea, just once, for GI symptoms. I was so

pleased as I enjoyed the tea and thought I had found a “natural” supplement I would tolerate. I didn’t sleep a wink that night. Turns out licorice root interacts with a whole lot of meds. It may be great for those not tapering or in withdrawal but otherwise, ot’s Inviting trouble. 

 

Grace

  • amitriptyline from 1980-2002,
  • intermittent  use of benzos over 2 decades prior to 2002
  • 2002-2010 Klonopin 1-2 mg., ambien 10--20, mg, remeron 4 mg. and  trileptal 300 mg
  • 2011 Stopped ambien and crossed over to valium 17.5 mg. (updosing 2.5 mg. to cover ambien C/T )
  • tapered valium w/ long holds to 12.74 mg. from a high of approximately 20-30 mg/day
  • 2015-2023 tapered trileptal to 98 mg.  had to completely stop tapering due to multiple chronic, serious health issues
  • currently 2024 still on 98 mg. trileptal and 4 mg. remeron
  •   Currently on benzo hold as I have to cross-over from brand-name valium to generic diazepam.   The diazepam is way weaker and brought on severe acute w/d
  • Current dose of diazepam is 7.9 and valium is 6.6.  I had to up-dose the total valium/diazepam from 12.74 to 14.5 where I have stayed since June 2023.  I am crossing over to generic at a somewhat tolerable rate of .3mg/month after about 2 months of trial/error w/ updosing.  I am not currently tapering; will continue to cross over. 

 

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This is currently the bane of my existence. I'm losing hours of each day to what I can only assume are morning cortisol spikes. It doesn't help that I recently flew back from the US to UK, and I tend to get really rattled by the jet-lag. Here's what I've tried so far:

 

Eye mask - seems to have helped with the early waking, and also helps me to fall asleep faster as I feel more 'locked in' for sleep - recommend

- Magnesium glycinate 133mg before bed and on waking - can't honestly say I've noticed any difference from this yet, but no side-effects either

GOS prebiotic daily, in a hot drink - I've been taking this for about a month now. It's more of a slow burner, but I've definitely noticed improvements in digestion, and this study tentatively suggests that there could be a link between regular GOS intake and lowered waking cortisol (various caveats apply: small sample size, plus the use of the salivary cortisol test which I understand is unreliable, perhaps more - mods please feel free to censor me if you feel I'm spreading misinformation)

 

Getting out of bed and moving around invariably helps speed it on its way, but that's easier said than done.

 

Interested in dietary solutions as I wonder how much is due to the hypoglycemia link that's been mentioned on this thread. Has anyone tried eating a handful of nuts or protein bar immediately on waking? I might make that my experiment for tomorrow morning and see if it makes a difference.

Long and troubled relationship with fluoxetine (Prozac).

2002 (age 12): Fluoxetine, unknown dosage. Rapid taper c. 2003/4.

2004-2010: Drug-free for six years. In 2009-10 began experiencing intense symptoms similar to w/d.

2010-2014: Fluoxetine 20mg. Several attempts to cold-turkey.

2014: Briefly raised dosage to 40mg before attempting CT. Did not go well.

2014-2015: Citalopram 20mg. CT after side-effects. Also did not go well.

2015-present: Fluoxetine 20mg.

 

Currently gathering resources for taper (always grateful for advice on these):

Supplements: Prebiotic (Bimuno), probiotic, Magnesium, Omega-3, Vitamin C, D3, B-complex.

Books: Full Catastrophe Living, The Depression Cure, The Power of Now, Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts

Other resourcesMeditation and hypnosis recordings by Michael Sealey

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Hi,

May I ask...is GOS pro-biotic a brand name or a certain strain?

 

Thank you,

Grace

  • amitriptyline from 1980-2002,
  • intermittent  use of benzos over 2 decades prior to 2002
  • 2002-2010 Klonopin 1-2 mg., ambien 10--20, mg, remeron 4 mg. and  trileptal 300 mg
  • 2011 Stopped ambien and crossed over to valium 17.5 mg. (updosing 2.5 mg. to cover ambien C/T )
  • tapered valium w/ long holds to 12.74 mg. from a high of approximately 20-30 mg/day
  • 2015-2023 tapered trileptal to 98 mg.  had to completely stop tapering due to multiple chronic, serious health issues
  • currently 2024 still on 98 mg. trileptal and 4 mg. remeron
  •   Currently on benzo hold as I have to cross-over from brand-name valium to generic diazepam.   The diazepam is way weaker and brought on severe acute w/d
  • Current dose of diazepam is 7.9 and valium is 6.6.  I had to up-dose the total valium/diazepam from 12.74 to 14.5 where I have stayed since June 2023.  I am crossing over to generic at a somewhat tolerable rate of .3mg/month after about 2 months of trial/error w/ updosing.  I am not currently tapering; will continue to cross over. 

 

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51 minutes ago, savinggrace said:

Hi,

May I ask...is GOS pro-biotic a brand name or a certain strain?

 

Thank you,

Grace

 

Hi Grace. I'm by no means an expert on this, but GOS stands for Galactooligosaccharides (wikipedia article here), a type of prebiotic (foods that feed beneficial bacteria in the gut - different from probiotics, which give you a direct infusion of the bacteria themselves).

 

The product I've been taking is called Bimuno, and my gut became a lot better after I'd been taking it for about a week (though I can't say I've yet noticed a measurable improvement in anxiety). I'm not recommending or endorsing it, but so far I think it has helped me with IBS, which in turn has helped me to sleep better.

Long and troubled relationship with fluoxetine (Prozac).

2002 (age 12): Fluoxetine, unknown dosage. Rapid taper c. 2003/4.

2004-2010: Drug-free for six years. In 2009-10 began experiencing intense symptoms similar to w/d.

2010-2014: Fluoxetine 20mg. Several attempts to cold-turkey.

2014: Briefly raised dosage to 40mg before attempting CT. Did not go well.

2014-2015: Citalopram 20mg. CT after side-effects. Also did not go well.

2015-present: Fluoxetine 20mg.

 

Currently gathering resources for taper (always grateful for advice on these):

Supplements: Prebiotic (Bimuno), probiotic, Magnesium, Omega-3, Vitamin C, D3, B-complex.

Books: Full Catastrophe Living, The Depression Cure, The Power of Now, Overcoming Unwanted Intrusive Thoughts

Other resourcesMeditation and hypnosis recordings by Michael Sealey

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have started to get the awfull cortisol spikes again now after 12 months of it was one of the only symptoms that seem to fade after stopping all meds I fall asleep at 11 o’clock then wake at 1 am every morning my room is completely blacked out it’s very dark so no light is triggering my waking I wake with a startle reaction then shiver for 10 minutes then burn hot and sweat for 10 minutes this goes on for hours it’s torture I have had only 2 hours sleep a night now for 18 months why do we go back to square one with the cortisol spikes it’s getting to the stage where I don’t want to go to sleep through fear of it 

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to lucyinthesky: Olanzapine/Seroquel & insomnia

Hi, does anyone know the difference between magnesium citrate and magnesium bisglycinate, and which one is most beneficial in helping sleep?

Thank you

2000-2001: Effexor              2005-2012: Celexa, Zoloft, Effexor, desipramin, Wellbutrin, mirtazepin, Lamictal, Remeron, Abilify, nortriptylin, Cipralex, Cymbalta, and others I don't remember. Really bad side effects to all.
Sept-Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 5mg      Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg --> 10mg
Dec 2012: Paxil 10mg-->0; 1 week later: HUGE WD symptoms. Started to get informed on the internet and back to 10mg Paxil.
Dec 2012-Jan 2013: Paxil 10mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 2.5mg        End Jan 2013: P 9mg, W 100mg, I 2.0mg
Feb 2013: P 8mg, W 100mg, I 1.5mg      April 2013: P 7mg, W 100mg, I 1.25mg       May 2013: P 7mg, W 90mg, I 1mg    

June 2013: P 7mg, W 80mg, I 0mg       July 1/2013: P 7, W 70     July 22/2013: P 7, W 60             Aug 2013: P 7, W 50       Sept 2013: P 6.1, W 50     Oct 2013: P up to 6.3, W 50     Nov 2013: P 6.2 to 5.9, W 50      Dec 2013: P 5.9, W 40      Jan 2014: P 5.3, W40        Feb 2014: P 5.3, W 30      March-April 2014: P 5.3, W 26    May 2014: P 5.3, W 20        June 2014: P 5.3 W 15     July 2014:  P 5.3, W 14       Aug 2014: P 5.3, W up to 15     Sept 2014: P 5.3, W 14    Oct 2014: P 4.8, W 14      Nov 2014: P 4.3, W 14     Dec 2014-Jan 2015: P 3.9, W 14     Feb 2015: P 3.9, W 12    March 2015: P 3.6, W 12   April-May 2015: P 3.3, W 12    June 2015: P 3.3, W 10    July 2015: P 3.3, W 8   Aug-Sept 2015: P 3.3, W 6   Oct 2015: P 3.0, W 6   Nov 2015: P 2.7, W 6   Dec 2015: P 2.4, W 6   Jan-Feb 2016: P 2.4, W 5  March 2016: P 2.2, W 5   April 2016: P 2.2, W 4   May-June 2016: P 2.2, W 3  July 2016: P 2.2, W 2  Aug 2016: P 2.2, W 1  Sept 2016: P 2.2, W 0!!  Oct 2016: P 2.0   Nov 2016-Jan 2017: P 1.8  Feb-Mar 2017: P 1.9  April-May 2017: P 1.8   June 2017: P 1.6 July-Dec 2017: P 1.5  Jan-April 2018: P 1.6

Others: Cytomel 25mcg (thyroid), vit. C, vit D, Omega-3 fish oil, Magnesium bisglycinate , Melatonin 1mg, 81mg Aspirin, Milk peptides, L-theanine, Valericalm tincture mix, scullcap tincture, Suan Zao Ren (jujube seeds)

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Waking with panic or anxiety - managing cortisol spikes
  • 2 weeks later...

please provide some cortisol  reducing strategies ? 

buspar  7/16 to 4/17  does  45 mg, 30 mg , 15mg then 60 mg  stopped did not like the side effects  tapered 

paxil    10 mg 10 /16  11 / 16 bad reaction  stopped  

xanax  .25 mg as needed   10 /16  30 days  only stopped 

ativan  1/17 1 mg 30 days supply  tapper off   the best i could  1/16/18  stopped 
prozac  4/16 to  1/17    20 mg start   then 6 months 40 mgs then down  10/17 to 20 mgs   off 2/17 bad reaction  stopped 

 klonopin  .5  three daily   as needed  took .5 for 30 days when getting   on Prozac 5/1/17 stopped   then started again  1/2/18 to 4/10 stopped by tapering over 30 days down to .125 a day. though time, but  better now stopped 

Mertizipine   11/16 to present started 15 mg  at 7.5 mg  4/17 to  7/18 ,  7/4/18   3.5 mg  skipping does  the plan was to go off it while on  Prozac  but  it never worked    back on 7.5 mg 

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Please read this topic from the beginning.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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On 12/04/2018 at 11:19 AM, bluepm said:

please provide some cortisol  reducing strategies ? 

 

I had to do my writing for the day, so I thought I'd incorporate it into this reply - 

 

I actually started on AD's because of the cortisol spike, probably due to lifestyle stress, and have since learned several techniques that are incredibly useful.

 

You can try each individually, or a combination of the approaches. Nothing is going to work overnight, and it's important to not have high expectations - it's better to commit to a set of actions and repeat them for a little while. I find that stimulating our rest and digest mechanism and down-regulating the nervous system compounds over time and is something that you need to keep practising. A good example would be that if you're having crazy cortisol spikes and it's too hard to sleep, it may be better to focus on relaxing rather than sleeping, knowing that over time, you'll unwind enough to facilitate sleep or at least a deeper sense of restfulness.

 

I recently moved into a new house and had up-dosed my medication, so my nervous system was fried. I also lived on a busy road and this sent my OCD crazy, each car sound sent shockwaves of anxiety through my body. I couldn't sleep and I started to notice that even the thought of my bedroom would send me into a huge panic. I employed these practices each evening and over a few weeks, I relaxed and relaxed and eventually, my nervous system settled. Just like stress can be a traumatising loop, relaxation can also be a feedback loop.

 

1. Mindfulness

 

I'm a long-time Buddhist practitioner and meditator, but I'll keep my information more 'secular'. Being mindful allows you to start tracking how you're feeling, noticing subtle changes, finding things that trigger your anxiety and also allows you to catch yourself before you start to spiral. A simple mindfulness of breathing practice is all you need and can find plenty of guides via the Headspace app, Insight Timer, Soundcloud, basically anywhere on the internet. Although mindfulness isn't a direct cortisol lowering practice, I believe being mindful of how you're feeling and developing space to hold the feelings of stress is beneficial, and makes some of the other techniques I'll describe better.

 

2. Adaptogens & other herbs

 

I'm no expert, but I believe that adaptogens are a type of herb/mushroom / whatever else that helps the body adapt to periods of extreme stress. In particular, I find Reishi and Ashwagandha incredibly helpful for dialling down a cortisol response. There's a study @ https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/59-proven-scientific-benefits-ashwagandha-references/#3_Ashwagandha_CombatsAnxietyStress that states that Ashwagandha reduced cortisol significantly compared to the placebo. It's relatively cheap as well, I look for a KSM-66 extract via iherb (no affiliation).

 

Other herbs that can be useful are Scullcap and the extract Baicalin. It feels like a dialled down, natural benzodiazapine substitute in that there's definitely some gaba receptor activity being stimulated. 

 

3. Co-regulation

 

If you have a partner, you can work with them to practice co-regulating. I'm not sure if there's any studies that I could directly link to this, but connecting with my partner gives a definite release of positive neurotransmitters including Oxytocin. You can lay together and mirror one another's breathing until you start to feel a nice, relaxing sense of warmth. A teacher in this space, David Cates, talks about the gold standard in knowing it's working being the same sensation as a baby melting into you when you hold them close, or smelling a baby / loved one's head (weird, but I'm sure you know what I mean).

 

4. Breathing exercises 

 

In particular, extending your exhale. Inhale actives sympathetic nervous system, exhale activates parasympathetic nervous system (rest & digest). You can practice by doubling your inhale length on the exhale, it's pretty straight forward.

 

5. Progressive muscular relaxation 

 

When our muscles relax, they send an 'it's okay' message to the brain and can provide some relief for an overstimulated limbic system. There's plenty of resources available to guide you through the practice via Youtube.

 

6. Hot baths

 

I find heat in combination with any of the above is awesome for relaxation. It pulls me into my body and away from the chattering mind, forcing me to relax. There's something so soothing on a fiery nervous system. Once again, I'm sure you can find some research that backs it up but I'm happy just sharing it for you to experiment with.

 

7. Movement

 

Slow, embodied movement is super soothing for the nervous system also. Think Tai Chi. Even a slow, mindful walk around a park is incredibly soothing. When I'm stressed, I'll deliberately slow down everything I'm doing, which feels relaxing and nice for a stressed out body.

 

8. Nature

 

There's a lot of cool research about 'forest bathing' and how it reduces cortisol levels. I also think there's a study that shows a significant difference in either amygdala size or activation in those living near nature compared to inner-city. I like to find somewhere quiet and nap, or even just lay there. The longer you spend in nature, the easier it is to remain there. It's pretty hard to settle initially, but eventually, the mind slows down and makes it easier to unwind and do nothing.

 

9. TRE exercises / Neurogenic tremors

 

Read about David Berceli's work on Trauma Releasing Exercises. It seems that inducing shaking (neurogenic tremors) and gradually letting them expand unwinds a lot of stress and stimulates our rest and digest mechanism.

 

 

Taper commencing 14/06/18:

  • Going down by 2.5mg per month from 35mg - once 2.5mg is bigger than the recommended 10%, I'll switch to a water solution. 
  • Planning to taper until October and then hold until 2019 - balancing study, work, life and holiday season.

 

Medication / withdrawal history:

  • Tapered July 2016 to October 2016, unsuccessful and reinstated to 30mg (didn't track specifics)
  • Tapered March 2017 to August 2017, was unsuccessful and reinstated to 35mg (didn't track specifics).
  • Current taper - started 1st January 2018 @ 32.5mg and 2.5mg per month until I reach a dose where 2.5 is > 10% of dose.

 

Morning supplements:

B complex, Niagen, COQ10, Black seed oil, Vitamin C, Zinc, Fish Oil, EGCG, Bosweilla Extract, Curcumin (Longvida), Vitamin D, R-ALA, NAC, Ashwagandha (occasionally), Epimedium / Icariin, Resveratol.

 

Evening supplements:

NatureCalm Magnesium, Glycine, Ashwagandha, Reishi, Schisandra, Melatonin.

I also take Phenibut (maximum 3 times weekly at a dose that doesn't build tolerance) and Oleamide when required.

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coffee and running.

 

after my first cup of coffee (yes i drink more than one a day!), the cortisol surge reduce by 80%. i believe that not being fully awake make your body produces more cortisol.

but then i have a bit of heart palpitations. after my morning run, 40 mn, they are all gone.

i have been living with this for 2 years.

 

and habituation

it is unpleasant but it won't kill us. just get your body moving.

you won't fear it anymore.

i have read Clair Weeks book and she was right on.

 

i still have insomnia but no more fear of falling asleep.

june 2014 to feb  2015- on xanax 0.25 to 1mg/day- then CT - jan 2016 - panic attack, went on 3.75mg remeron to sleep march 2016- CT remeron (because it caused me tinnitus)- deep depression, couldn't sleep because of  intrusive Tinnitus

april to june 2016- valium 4mg, xanax as needed, lunesta 3mg

june 2016 - valium 4mg, lexapro 10mg

oct 2016- valium 2mg, lexapro 10mg- hold

march 2017- started daily micro liquid taper of valium and lex- -taper speed 0.0033mg valium daily and 0.033mg lex daily

may 2018- valium 1mg, lexapro 2.4mg - i had to slow down the rate of my daily micro taper considerably

LAST dose of Lexapro: 0.05mg on 05/17/19

LAST dose of valium: 0.04mg on 08/18/19

April 26th 2020- intense panic attack that lasted 4 days, akatisia, 0 sleep- suicidal, almost hospitalized- took rescue doses over 2 days- total: 1.5mg xanax, 18mg valium, 2x5mg lexapro

 

 

 

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For most people with withdrawal syndrome, drinking coffee exacerbates sleep difficulties, palpitations, etc.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 1 month later...

I was reading through this thread hoping to find a solution to morning anxiety, and someone posted a brief comment recommending ashwagandha, making the bold claim that it would banish the anxiety. So two days ago I went to my local health food store and bought some. I took one 3600mg capsule before bed and lo and behold, I have not had the waking cortisol/anxiety surge for two straight mornings. I can feel anxiety lurking in the background, but it never rears up into the full-blown, raging monster that I've been accustomed to for so long. 

I should note that I also switched from taking magnesium malate to magnesium citrate at the same time, so maybe that has something to do with it too? The mag malate seems to do nothing for me, and I can't imagine the citrate being that much more effective, so I am attributing the change in anxiety to the ashwagandha.

 

Food for thought.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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21 hours ago, IanM said:

I was reading through this thread hoping to find a solution to morning anxiety, and someone posted a brief comment recommending ashwagandha, making the bold claim that it would banish the anxiety. So two days ago I went to my local health food store and bought some. I took one 3600mg capsule before bed and lo and behold, I have not had the waking cortisol/anxiety surge for two straight mornings. I can feel anxiety lurking in the background, but it never rears up into the full-blown, raging monster that I've been accustomed to for so long. 

I should note that I also switched from taking magnesium malate to magnesium citrate at the same time, so maybe that has something to do with it too? The mag malate seems to do nothing for me, and I can't imagine the citrate being that much more effective, so I am attributing the change in anxiety to the ashwagandha.

 

Food for thought.

 To,

 

Ashwanagda, specifically the KSM-66 extract found in Jarrows brand, blunts cortisol spikes and is backed by literature!

Taper commencing 14/06/18:

  • Going down by 2.5mg per month from 35mg - once 2.5mg is bigger than the recommended 10%, I'll switch to a water solution. 
  • Planning to taper until October and then hold until 2019 - balancing study, work, life and holiday season.

 

Medication / withdrawal history:

  • Tapered July 2016 to October 2016, unsuccessful and reinstated to 30mg (didn't track specifics)
  • Tapered March 2017 to August 2017, was unsuccessful and reinstated to 35mg (didn't track specifics).
  • Current taper - started 1st January 2018 @ 32.5mg and 2.5mg per month until I reach a dose where 2.5 is > 10% of dose.

 

Morning supplements:

B complex, Niagen, COQ10, Black seed oil, Vitamin C, Zinc, Fish Oil, EGCG, Bosweilla Extract, Curcumin (Longvida), Vitamin D, R-ALA, NAC, Ashwagandha (occasionally), Epimedium / Icariin, Resveratol.

 

Evening supplements:

NatureCalm Magnesium, Glycine, Ashwagandha, Reishi, Schisandra, Melatonin.

I also take Phenibut (maximum 3 times weekly at a dose that doesn't build tolerance) and Oleamide when required.

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On 5/24/2018 at 7:09 AM, IanM said:

I was reading through this thread hoping to find a solution to morning anxiety, and someone posted a brief comment recommending ashwagandha, making the bold claim that it would banish the anxiety. So two days ago I went to my local health food store and bought some. I took one 3600mg capsule before bed and lo and behold, I have not had the waking cortisol/anxiety surge for two straight mornings. I can feel anxiety lurking in the background, but it never rears up into the full-blown, raging monster that I've been accustomed to for so long. 

I should note that I also switched from taking magnesium malate to magnesium citrate at the same time, so maybe that has something to do with it too? The mag malate seems to do nothing for me, and I can't imagine the citrate being that much more effective, so I am attributing the change in anxiety to the ashwagandha.

 

Food for thought.

 

It probably won't surprise anyone to learn that the ashwagandha has pooped out and my morning anxiety is back in full force. The reprieve was fun while it lasted.

Next up, Lemon Balm.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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On 3/13/2011 at 9:27 PM, Altostrata said:

This seems to be a very common symptom of withdrawal syndrome. Many people report waking up with a surge of panic or anxiety, or a feeling of anxiety early in the morning. A lot of times, people are waking around 4:30 a.m. or closer to dawn. The first glimmers of morning light signal the nervous system to start the morning cycle with a jump in cortisol. At normal levels, cortisol gives you energy. At elevated levels, cortisol gives you a feeling of unease, anxiety, panic, or depression. When you have withdrawal syndrome, your system is on "high alert" all the time. The normal morning peak of cortisol gets exaggerated and what you would normally feel as "wake up" becomes a surge of panic, anxiety, or dread in the early morning.

For me it feels like waking up with a bad hang over every morning.

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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Very often, something works for a few days, then stops working. Rotating these little crutches, a couple of days here, a couple of days there, is a way to have tools in your toolbox.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I tried Lemon Balm and it had no effect on me. Only one night, mind you, so maybe it needs more time to work.

 

But my wife and I took a super-expensive sleep aid called U~Dream ($1.50 Canadian/pill), and we both agreed that it was very effective. I slept an hour longer than usual -- 6 hours instead of 5 -- and my sleep was uneventful save for the usual anxiety upon waking. Here's a link to the product if anyone wants to read it's ingredients:

 

http://www.udreamherbal.com/product/u-dream-full-night/

 

Note that I have no affiliation with this product... It was simply recommended to my wife by a staff member at our local health food store. It's next to impossible to find any info/reviews for it online, so beware.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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2 hours ago, IanM said:

I tried Lemon Balm and it had no effect on me. Only one night, mind you, so maybe it needs more time to work.

 

But my wife and I took a super-expensive sleep aid called U~Dream ($1.50 Canadian/pill), and we both agreed that it was very effective. I slept an hour longer than usual -- 6 hours instead of 5 -- and my sleep was uneventful save for the usual anxiety upon waking. Here's a link to the product if anyone wants to read it's ingredients:

 

http://www.udreamherbal.com/product/u-dream-full-night/

 

Note that I have no affiliation with this product... It was simply recommended to my wife by a staff member at our local health food store. It's next to impossible to find any info/reviews for it online, so beware.

 

I under-calculated the number of hours I slept on U-Dream. It wasn't 6, but rather 8. I intend to take it for a couple/few more nights to see if it continues to work. My wife is afraid of becoming addicted to it, or having it poop out due to over-use, so she's only going to take it when she really needs it... probably a wise thing to do, but I desperately need sleep so I'm going to risk it.

Edited by IanM
Spelling

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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Your wife has the right idea. It would not be a good idea to take this supplement on a daily basis, but rather to use it only when really necessary.  None of the ingredients are addicting in and of themselves, but the effect of seemingly improved sleep could be very psychologically addicting.  Only one of the ingredients is a known sleep aid, the rest at best are antioxidents.  The big problem comes in the fact that they all  cause liver damage  and carry warnings to that affect.  They also have strong affects on  blood sugar levels and will cause problems in that regard.  Long term effects are sketchy but it is suggested that none of the ingredients be taken for more than a few days at a time. 

 

In a normal healthy person limited exposure to this supplement could be of some use.  For a person who is undergoing the affects of ADWD it would more than likely cause them much more trouble than it is worth. I would suggest saving the ware and tare on your body and wallet and avoid the use of U-Dream.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Thanks, brassmonkey. Warning heeded. I think I will take it anyway, in spite of the possible problems. I am not concerned about using it for only a few days.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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