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Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike


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NADIA-any particular type of ginseng? I've gotten some relief from valerian.

 

200mg Panax ginseng in the morning. But try it cautiously! Maybe just a tiny amount first. Other people on here have found it activating, so remember everyone is different.

 

I tried valerian before and it seemed to help a bit at first, but then it went paradoxical. I think I took it too often or too much... every time I have tried it since then I get MUCH worse anxiety. I also seem to get worse with other calming herbs. They might help at the moment, and then I feel worse afterwards.

 

So I try not to take too many things and deal with things by walking, taking deep breaths, etc. This is of course easier once you start improving. About a week ago I had a resurgence of anxiety to the point that there's not much you can do but survive it. I liken it to someone sneaking amphetamines into a drink or something... suddenly I am barely sleeping and I feel like there is a huge, horrible emergency and it is dreadful. It's amazing how quickly you forget just how bad it can get when you are doing generally better, as I am now. At that moment I was so close to taking a xanax just out of desperation, but I luckily talked myself out of it. I told myself I was generally better and that I just had to wait it out, and I did my best not to let the physical rush of horror contaminate my thinking. This is something I learned with depression, as well... the worst thing you can do is try to think your way through it, because you can accidentally feed it. I think the best thing you can do is try as best you can to take the whole thing in stride. Tell yourself, yes, I'm feeling awful, but this will pass eventually. Let the feelings exist, don't fight them, but don't cling to them either. Just try to observe them as if you were observing something happening on a TV you don't have that much interest in. For me success with this kind of technique has been gradual but certain. Often I feel like I'm not making any progress, and then suddenly it dawns on me that I'm actually so much better than I was a few months ago.

 

There's another thread on here somewhere about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy... someone put a link to a workbook for it in that thread. It's a free downloadable Word file and that helped me quite a bit when I was at my worst!

 

That said, I still do try to find stuff that might help me. I continue to take magnesium daily, along with fish oils. I started with the panax ginseng about three weeks ago and feel it is really helping with depression, which in turn helps with morning dread (in the sense that I still get anxiety in the AM, but it feels more like an amped and nervous feeling than a "I feel like I've gone to hell and will never escape" kind of dread). I'm now trying niacinamide to see if it helps with the anxiety. I've also just signed up for a Ki Gong class that starts up at the end of the month.

'94-'08 On/off ADs. Mostly Zoloft & Wellbutrin, but also Prozac, Celexa, Effexor, etc.
6/08 quit Z & W after tapering, awful anxiety 3 mos. later, reinstated.
11/10 CTed. Severe anxiety 3 mos. later & @ 8 mos. much worse (set off by metronidazole). Anxiety, depression, anhedonia, DP, DR, dizziness, severe insomnia, high serum AM cortisol, flu-like feelings, muscle discomfort.
9/11-9/12 Waves and windows of recovery.
10/12 Awful relapse, DP/DR. Hydrocortisone?
11/12 Improved fairly quickly even though relapse was one of worst waves ever.

1/13 Best I've ever felt.

3/13 A bit of a relapse... then faster and shorter waves and windows.

4/14 Have to watch out for triggers, but feel completely normal about 80% of the time.

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I just had a horrible, horrible diurnal mood swing this a.m. Problem has been going on for 2.5 months. I felt as if my heart was going to pop out of my chest, it was beating so fast. All the negativity got going, end of the world thoughts, but I knew that just the night before I was fine.

 

For the life of me, I could not get my mood to come back to normal. I know it was adrenaline/cortisol but i felt so POWERLESS to get it to stop. Breathing did nothing.

 

I must admit that I've had a need to go slightly back on ADs to restabilize and then redo the final taper. Am at 75 mg of wellbutrin and 10 mg celexa for 7 days now.

 

Anybody have any idea? Or is this just the temporary restart?

 

Again, I am so sorry to have to go back on but this daily up and down is killing me. :(

 

Thanks so much for any advice, words of encouragement.

Years:150mg Wellbutrin (to concentrate) 20-30 mg Celexa (rumination).

CT 8/2011 during a pregnancy attempt under MD orders. (Idiot!!!) Pregnancy hormones allowed it.

Felt great with 6 mg of melatonin per night to sleep plus preggo hormones-didn't last:(

Best time of my life. Botched IVF in Dec 2011.Stress.

Bone chilling exhaustion and told to go back on celexa and wellbutrin.

4/9/2012 Back on celexa wb for some relief, wb gave me heart palps so dropped and only need 6.6 mg celexa and 1/4 melatonin pill...IMPROVEMENT because my doses are much lower!

REMEMBER to get your thyroid and hormones checked/out of whack ones can appear LIKE MOOD DISORDERS!!

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Elizabeth -

NO apologies :)

We're all doing the best we can - I wish I had gone much slower -

 

That morning terror and Groundhog Day effect after a decent evening is indescribable - I took aspirin at bedtime last night after reading (not in scientific source) that it might calm the cortisol surge - I also was away from home so there are many variables -

That said„ I had almost no cortisol panic this morning -

I wonder if anyone else has read or tried this - the test will be when I am back home (bad situation)

 

Cortisol awakening response - last item under Sleep Factors

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortisol_awakening_response#section_3

 

NOTE: first paragraph states that this happens AFTER awakening and there is another rise before awakening - it is the latter that *seems* more likely to cause the abrupt awakening - I wake with racing heart - there's no 20 minute lag time -

Also this is looking at 'average' cortisol not in autonomic dumping due to drug withdrawal and dysautonomia -

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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AM Anxiety and the Waking Up With Dread has been haunting me for years now. What I've noticed with myself is that when it is a "in the throes of WD" am anxiety, nothing works and I have to work thru it, and when I finally get out the door it subsides. In other words there is no control. This in turn promotes more fear and an anticipatory anxiety of the next morning.

 

I've learned here about cortisol leves bumping up in the early AM. I get it. BUT...for me it started in 1996 and I still have it. Paxil relieved it. Even though Paxil worked, it eventually worked against me with AM Anxiety when I went thru Paxil WD. It was a horror.

The same with Lexapro. AM anxiety - not too bad, sometimes none at all. AND then with Lexapro WD all the fears, dread, and uncontrollable anxiety came back with a vengeance.

 

I believe, for me, that when it is not a physical WD issue, it is a call back (fear) or an association of AM anxiety that triggers more AM Anxiety. You know "the more we focus on something or the more afraid we are, we will get more of". Self-fullfilling prophecy type thing.

 

Now....when the physical stuff abates (like WD)- or finishing some other meds like antibiotics - or - just being sick with a flu ends I can have morning anxiety, but I have the presence of mind to coach myself thru it. I can talk to myself like I would a good friend, jump in that shower, shampoo, condition, dry off, blow dry my hair, do my morning readings and make myself feel much better. I am able to practice positive/caring self talk.

 

I am thinking that I've been seriously affected physically/emotionally by anxiety and the double slammed by drugs that cause horrific anxiety when we try to get off of them, which then sets off the fear of....anxiety which is then an emotional issue.

 

It is a vicious cyle. For me, when a problem arises I am afraid of becoming anxious, and sometimes more than the actual crisis.

 

 

This AM axiety and it's vicious cycle that we got caught up in is the absolute Height of insanity and frustration. <_< Maybe the antidote is to get really mad at it in the AM and chase it away :angry:

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Yes, aspirin is a cortisol fighter. Take with food or fish oil because it can be hard on an empty stomach.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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May I just share that I hate what I call "cortisol mornings"?

 

And agoraphobia. Hate that too.

 

On an upbeat note I'm down to 2.5 of Neurontin and have also re-begun tapering Lamictal which I am trying to get down from 112 to under 100 by the end of the year.

 

Of course, hence, probably, the yuckies.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                   1

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I.hate.cortisol.mornings.too.more.than.you.can.possibly.imagine.

 

I've jacked up my family's water bill and gas bill to pay for all of the hot water baths I've taken while trying to at least get out of bed but be a wee bit relaxed while I ride the cortisol wave.

 

In addition to all the good advice already out there, don't know if this might help.

Years:150mg Wellbutrin (to concentrate) 20-30 mg Celexa (rumination).

CT 8/2011 during a pregnancy attempt under MD orders. (Idiot!!!) Pregnancy hormones allowed it.

Felt great with 6 mg of melatonin per night to sleep plus preggo hormones-didn't last:(

Best time of my life. Botched IVF in Dec 2011.Stress.

Bone chilling exhaustion and told to go back on celexa and wellbutrin.

4/9/2012 Back on celexa wb for some relief, wb gave me heart palps so dropped and only need 6.6 mg celexa and 1/4 melatonin pill...IMPROVEMENT because my doses are much lower!

REMEMBER to get your thyroid and hormones checked/out of whack ones can appear LIKE MOOD DISORDERS!!

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I too have been experiencing these types of mornings over the past two weeks. I wake up extra early, heart pounding and need to really talk myself into a calmer state. The act of getting a shower, making my bed, taking a walk, putting on makeup all seem to help me as it refocuses my energy away from the anxiety. I have also found that I can no longer eat in the mornings as my stomach is too nervous.

 

Hopefully, this too shall pass.

Lexapro 20 mg 1998-2012

January 2012 added 20mg of Prozac to aid with taper

Did a six month taper off of the lexapro

As of June 7, 2012 lexapro free. Still take the prozac.

Klonopin .25 as needed (usually 1-2x a week).

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Excuse if this has been discussed previously...

I recall reading that hot showers may worsen the cortisol response and warm water is less stimulating. It was just one of those tips I read somewhere along the way (not a scientific source) and wanted to mention.

Any thoughts? I lean toward hot showers to relax muscles but that may be exacerbating the cortisol response.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I.Do.Too.

 

Lately, I have been waking up with a slight variation on morning anxiety. The instant I open my eyes, I get smacked with this feeling of INTENSE dread/depression/hopeless awfulness. Yuck. I'm assuming it's a variation on morning anxiety anyway, it's awful. It fades as I get up and get doing things, and amazingly enough, it wasn't really there this morning, whew. Hope that continues. That's one thing I'll say about this craziness is that you never know how you'll be from one day (hour, minute? ) to the next...

 

Wishing you all well.

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Nicki -

That was 'Phase 2' for me -While I was tapering it was heart racing panic that woke me at 4am- it calmed down and changed to dread for a few months and now it's mixed but much less intense -

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Excuse if this has been discussed previously...

I recall reading that hot showers may worsen the cortisol response and warm water is less stimulating. It was just one of those tips I read somewhere along the way (not a scientific source) and wanted to mention.

Any thoughts? I lean toward hot showers to relax muscles but that may be exacerbating the cortisol response.

 

Barb,

I've not specifically heard that but have heard that warm baths are preferable to hot ones. Like you, I saw this somewhere along the way and don't recall the reasoning.

 

I find that luke-warm sitting showers are very relaxing, almost exhuasting. Basically, I run the shower to fill the bath tub b/c we have a chlorine filter on the shower head but I just get in the tub and let the warm water rain on me.

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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AM Dread. The AM anxiety has been with me for years. On the rare occasions where I woke up without it, I was absolutely elated and felt at peace. I become very hopeful that I am beyond it and on a new journey of anxiety-free mornings. It is such a relief.

 

Most difficult time of the day. I do the same thing and lie there for 20-30 minutes trying to breath it away, pray it away, talk myself out of it, and on and on. Best medicine is to get up as soon as I wake and off into the shower. It's still with me and it's there while having my coffee and blow drying my hair.

 

Then I do some daily readings, journaling and it gets better. It does take a long time and work to get rid of it.

 

For me it is the drugs, heightened cortisol levels and most of all a humungus association.

Mornings = oh no, here it comes anxiety!(scary music)...

 

It is like a self-fulfilling prophecy. The thing we focus on the most or are most afraid of, comes on to bite us in the butt :o

 

I am so disgusted with it and me for having it.

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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I've also been having morning anxiety spikes, even had my AM cortisol measured as part of hormone panel.

 

I've come back to the blue blocking welding shades that I was using last year. They help signficantly.

 

The thread, for those unfamiliar is here

 

--> http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/304-light-sensitive-try-blocking-out-blue-light/page__p__17515__hl__%2Bblue+%2Bblockers__fromsearch__1#entry17515

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Excuse if this has been discussed previously...

I recall reading that hot showers may worsen the cortisol response and warm water is less stimulating. It was just one of those tips I read somewhere along the way (not a scientific source) and wanted to mention.

Any thoughts? I lean toward hot showers to relax muscles but that may be exacerbating the cortisol response.

 

I've been taking showers as hot as I can stand at night, so I think I'll try a slightly cooler temperature. I've also been doing this for relaxation and because it helps to unblock my sinuses which are quite stuffy right now from pollen allergies.

 

Still having a low-grade problem with Cortisol in the mornings - some anxiety upon awakening along with after-thoughts from screwy, nonsensical dreams; some light sensitivity and jitteriness; tinnitus to varying degrees, but it's way, way better than four months ago when I tapered all the way off Lexapro.

 

The one thing that really irks me is that these problems seem to be worse the earlier I get up, but if I sleep until late morning I haven't got much of a day left.

 

Thank God I was on only one drug. Multiple tapers must take a lot of courage.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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I also take ashwagandha, which sometimes seems to help, although I'm not really certain.

 

Ashwaganda takes six weeks to six months to have an effect according to Stephen Harrad Buhner in his book, Herbal Antibiotics. He recommends it for immune system support, much like Siberian Ginseng, and it's less expensive. He says these are the actions of Ashwaganda (root): "immune tonic, stress-protective, antibacterial, diuretic, antipyretic, astringent, nerve sedative, alterative."

 

Please keep in mind that herbal remedies are usually not as strong as Big Pharma's pills - nor do they have, for the most part, serious side effects.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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I took Phosphatidylserine (100 mg.) for the first time today and I'm feeling almost supernaturally calm, certainly no bad side effects as of yet. I took it about ten hours ago. I'm hopeful that it will have some longer-term effects such as getting rid of the residual morning Cortisol jolt.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Does Cortisol ever return to normal after years on these drugs. From the majority of posts I've read, it seems so many people have this issue - costisol dumps - big time.

 

Alto do you know anything about this. Are we permanently damaged.....I feel like I am.

 

Hugs

 

I was on an antidepressant for sixteen months. Four months off of Lexapro, and my Cortisol level is normalizing, although it's still a bit high. Wearing a sleep mask and keeping it on until I feel ready to face the day has helped tremendously. If necessary, I wear sunglasses in the house and most definitely outside, even if it's a cloudy day.

 

That sense of hopelessness is, I think, a withdrawal symptom, especially since recovery takes so long and withdrawal also causes us to be very impatient. Since no one knows how much of the antidepressants or how long you've taken them relates to permanent damage - if any, it's probably better to assume that you will eventually get better even if it seems to be taking a long time.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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THANK GOD I DID NOT WAKE WITH ANXIETY....I feel like singin ten bars of the Hallellujah Chorus :)

 

It's been a long time. I journaled about what made this morning different.

 

I was waiting for checks to come in from a few clients and they did. One more on it's way.

It took a load off my mind. Financial pressure or financial insecurity affects me.

 

A situation cropped up with my daugther and I made a decision not to interfere and let her figure it out herself in addition to dealing with consequences. That is big for me. I let go of the issue/worry and let it go. I didn't make it 'my problem.'

 

I'll post in the tapering section....I took the suggestion from someone on the site about taking a tablet of Celexa and I did the one swipeof the nail file across the top of the Celexa. I started this on Monday.

 

More later.....have to go

 

HUGS ^_^

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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I took Phosphatidylserine (100 mg.) for the first time today and I'm feeling almost supernaturally calm, certainly no bad side effects as of yet. I took it about ten hours ago. I'm hopeful that it will have some longer-term effects such as getting rid of the residual morning Cortisol jolt.

 

An update on this post:

 

I took a Phosphatidylserine cap at bedtime last night and did nor have any screwy dream memory upon awakening. I had also taken one after lunch yesterday and was able to take a nap. I had a dream while napping, but it was pleasant.

 

My lunchtime dose today has made me very sleepy, and here I am attending a webinar for CPE credit. (Two yawns!) I'm going to try changing this dosing schedule to taking one first thing in the morning when this sedative effect would be more welcome and another with dinner. The directions say it should be "preferably" taken with food, but it seems to work well without it.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just call me Ms. AM Anxiety :rolleyes: Elisabeth I have been dealing with this for years.

I knew there was a saliva test.

 

 

5. Take anti-stress supplements like B vitamins, minerals like calcium, magnesium, chromium and zinc, and antioxidants like vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid, grape seed extract, and Co Q 10. Adaptogen herbs like ginseng, astragalus, eleuthero, schizandra, rhodiola and ashwagandha help the body cope with the side effects of stress and rebalance the metabolism. These supplement and herbs will not only lower cortisol levels but they will also help you decrease the effects of stress on the body by boosting the immune system.

 

When is the best time to take the caclium/magnesium? When I wake up to go to the bathroom which is a few hourse before the AM wake up, so they have a chance to work. Or is it something to take a few times a day?

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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I'm not sure about the best time to take these, but I found this. Learn the Best Time of Day to Take Vitamins that says they should be taken at bedtime. Hope that helps.

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

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Just call me Ms. AM Anxiety :rolleyes: Elisabeth I have been dealing with this for years.

I knew there was a saliva test.

 

 

5. Take anti-stress supplements like B vitamins, minerals like calcium, magnesium, chromium and zinc, and antioxidants like vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid, grape seed extract, and Co Q 10. Adaptogen herbs like ginseng, astragalus, eleuthero, schizandra, rhodiola and ashwagandha help the body cope with the side effects of stress and rebalance the metabolism. These supplement and herbs will not only lower cortisol levels but they will also help you decrease the effects of stress on the body by boosting the immune system.

 

When is the best time to take the caclium/magnesium? When I wake up to go to the bathroom which is a few hourse before the AM wake up, so they have a chance to work. Or is it something to take a few times a day?

 

Hey Nikki,

 

I have some experience with those supplements I can share.

 

Cal/Mg: I've read a lot of differing perspectives on how best to supplement both. My personal hunch, but not advice, is that supplemental magnesium is more likely needed and that cal and mag are better taken apart, if one is supplementing with both. I like mag chloride flake footbaths and also Mag Glycerine. Second to those, I like Mag Citrate. I avoid Mag Oxide. Also, I don't currently supplement calcium but I prefer Ca citrate and avoid Ca carbonate.

 

Ginseng and eleuthero, I find stimulating. These cause nerve pains and increased bp for me. I am planning to try ashwagandha and see how it goes. I will be trying it cautiously.

 

I have taken some chromium which helps with insulin resistance according to things i have read. Do you have issues there? Also I've found that how I eat at night plays a large role my level of morning anxiety. I eat protein snacks, mostly animal meat fairly regularly and avoid sweets late at night. If I have carbs, I also eat some coco oil and little protein with them.

 

Good luck,

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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5. Take anti-stress supplements like B vitamins, minerals like calcium, magnesium, chromium and zinc, and antioxidants like vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid, grape seed extract, and Co Q 10. Adaptogen herbs like ginseng, astragalus, eleuthero, schizandra, rhodiola and ashwagandha help the body cope with the side effects of stress and rebalance the metabolism. These supplement and herbs will not only lower cortisol levels but they will also help you decrease the effects of stress on the body by boosting the immune system.

 

 

That's an awful lot of stuff.

 

I reacted badly to B Vitamins during withdrawal and I'm still leery of taking the entire complex. I've taken calcium, magnesium, and Vitamin C for years with no noticeably different effects during withdrawal.

 

Some of those herbs are not a good idea. Astragalus is a stimulant and Ashwaganda contains nicotine, also a stimulant. I've been studying herbal medicine off and on for quite a few years and I've never even heard of the others listed. Also, here's a article I posted on supplements that interfere with prescription drugs:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2208-supplements-that-interfere-with-antidepressants/

 

Ginseng is one of them.

 

Herbal medicine is every bit as powerful as prescription drugs, so please be careful.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Thank you for sharing your expertise, Jemima.

 

I also have a tough time handling the Bs. The good news is that my sensitives are improving. And this s good news because I am low in b12, serum levels having dropped another 200+ since mid-Feb.

 

Last year, I could not tolerate b12 at all. It would cause swelling in the inner ear (or whatever) that caused horrible pain and sound amplification. It would do the same with my eyes and ability to tolerate light.

 

I am able to tolerate about 1/4 dose of isolated b12 and found a weak Bcomplex pill that I am able to take.

 

Are you familiar with phosphatidylserine?

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Are you familiar with phosphatidylserine?

 

Yes, I just started taking that about two weeks ago, one 100 mg. gelcap a day (after dinner because it tends to make me sleepy). It seems to have helped me focus better and stick to one task rather than getting distracted and doing random multitasking.

 

One thing I've noticed since feeling so much better is that magnesium really knocks me out. I had been taking a 133 mg. cap after lunch and dinner, but I'm moving that schedule to dinner and bedtime. I've been too drowsy to do anything physical since lunch today. YAWN.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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Yay, magnesium.

 

Recently talked to a doctor who's studied withdrawal syndrome. He thinks L-glycine, an amino acid, might be helpful to reduce cortisol-induced hyperalerting.

 

He said L-glycine acts on the NDMA receptor and redirects glutamate from alerting to consolidating memories. (Don't ask me how this works, I have no idea.) Therefore, theoretically L-glycine may reduce glutamatergic hyperalerting.

 

(Coincidentally, I've been taking 250mg L-glycine at bedtime over the last month and sleeping better.)

 

L-glycine's cousin D-serine does this too. D-serine, as in phosphatidylserine.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I just started to take phosphitidylserine again today as going back through my journaling when I did take it for the few days I had better days and better sleeps. Do you think glycine would be activating? I tied taurine as I read that it could help anxiety and one dose I knew I could not tolerate it. I tolerate magnesium citrate alright.

1998-2013 Various antidepressants switches and CTs.

Benzo addiction unknowingly trying to cover withdrawals in 2011

January 2012,, 25 mg Zoloft , March 2012, Remeron 7.5 to sleep and 1 mg Clonazepam.

Tapered Clonazepam from April to June 2012 from 1 mg to .25 mg (stuck)

September to October 2012 tapered Remeron 7.5 mg to 5 mg. December upped to .75 mg Clonazepam due to mothers passing of cancer.

February 2013 to December 2013 tapered off 25 mg Zoloft

January 2014 to March 2014 tapered off 5 mg Remeron Doing not to bad, not perfect but okay. Here is where I screw up May 2014 to October 2014 tapered Clonazepam from .75 mg to .25 mg. Rapidly worsening every week. January 2015 updosed Clonazepam to .5 mg. Big Mistake - Holding

Currently .25 mg  Clonazepam 11 pm at night (give or take an hour)  and .25 mg 9 am in the morning (give or take an hour)

Hope this isn't to confusing.

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From my experience, glycine does not seem to be activating. Try a fraction of a capsule first, it tends to come in 500mg capsules at the smallest dose.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 1 month later...

There was a doctor on the Today Show this morning discussing mornings and what it means for alot of people including successful business people.

 

They showed a bedroom @ 4:30am. For me it looked terrible. It was still night & I am dead tired. For the successful business woman who lved there ~ it was her Zen Time.

 

House is quiet, peaceful, and she gets alot done after she does some daily readings. She said it helps her look forward to her day. Waking up early puts her to sleep @ a reasonable time at night.

 

I say Bless her heart :) I used to do that when my daughter was in school. However I didn't like waking up in darkness.

 

VS...

 

Woman who keeps hitting snooze button and then was rushed to get out the door to work and felt frazzled.

 

The suggestion was to retire earlier, and change evening habits to induce sleep. Set that alarm and get up..no snooze button. Talk to yourself in those wee hours upon waking and tell yourself you are going to have a good day. Try to make it your Zen Time instead of Hell Time.

 

They did say that most people do prefer to see sunshine upon waking. True for me.

 

Okay ~ for those of us Tapering :rolleyes: I think there is something I could take out of this. I struggle with getting out of bed. I wake with anxiety. I then do daily readings, some journaling, shower do my hair breakfast, etc.

 

According to this report. I should get up and tell myself I am going to have a good day.

Get up right away. DON'T LAY THERE.....

 

This is a problem for me. Laying there ruminating over anxiety..

 

Care to weigh in. Need to beat this and turn it around.

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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This is a problem for me. Laying there ruminating over anxiety..

 

Care to weigh in. Need to beat this and turn it around.

 

I think you need to look 'under the hood' and find out why you spend so much time ruminating over anxiety.~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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Hey, Nikki,

 

Have you ever looked over The 10 Best Anxiety Management Techniques by Margareet Wehrenberg? It's very interesting and helpful as she includes basic info about what is going wrong when you're ruminating and what works to get yourself on less anxious path.

 

I particularly appreciated the information she provides about what neuroscientists think is going on in different areas of the brain for different types of anxiety. Check it out - you may find some of her methods (all versions of CBT exercises, I think) helpful.

 

I had two westies - they are wonderful little dogs. Give yours a pat from a big fan of the breed in Massachusetts.

 

1989 - 1992 Parnate* 

1992-1998 Paxil - pooped out*, oxazapam, inderal

1998 - 2005 Celexa - pooped out* klonopin, oxazapam, inderal

*don't remember doses

2005 -2007   Cymbalta 60 mg oxazapam, inderal, klonopin

Started taper in 2007:

CT klonopin, oxazapam, inderal (beta blocker) - 2007

Cymbalta 60mg to 30mg 2007 -2010

July 2010 - March 2018 on hiatus due to worsening w/d symptoms, which abated and finally disappeared. Then I stalled for about 5 years because I didn't want to deal with W/D.

March 2018 - May 2018 switch from 30mg Cymbalta to 20mg Celexa 

19 mg Celexa October 7, 2018

18 mg Celexa November 5, 2018

17 mg Celexa  December 2, 2019

16 mg Celexa January 6, 2018 

15 mg Celexa March 7, 2019

14 mg Celexa April 24, 2019

13 mg Celexa June 28, 2019

12.8 mg Celexa November 10, 2019

12.4 Celexa August 31, 2020

12.2 Celexa December 28, 2020

12 mg Celexa March 2021

 

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This is a problem for me. Laying there ruminating over anxiety..

 

Care to weigh in. Need to beat this and turn it around.

 

I think you need to look 'under the hood' and find out why you spend so much time ruminating over anxiety.~S

 

For me, it's the fear of not knowing what's going to happen next, and having to be forced to wait for an answer, along with the dread that I am going to be rejected, yet again. I've always had the feeling I'm always too little, too late.

 

I have spent a fair amount of my time ruminating and having anxious thoughts. Why I do this is of no importance whatsoever, it's just a predisposition towards self-distrust and the symptom is anxious, ruminating thoughts. One of the things I am quite good at is setting my imagination on fire by wondering if I am going to die because I had to reinstate on Klonopin. Besides thinking about the psych drugs and their effects, I can ruminate on other aspects of my life. It all leads to suffering.

 

About 6 weeks ago, I started attending Recovery International. I am spotting my habits of self-sabotage and employing simple techniques in order to function despite my symptoms (withdrawal symptoms or otherwise) which in my situation are highly distressing, but not dangerous. If you are interested, feel free to look at the website.

 

It is helping me to live with the uncertainties of life, including my withdrawal. I wish the same for you. :) Hugs, Annej

My Intro
2000-Effexor and Klonopin
April 2011- C/T Adderall, lithium, Seroquel, Lunesta; Pristiq and Klonopin cut by 1/2 due to med-induced "rapid cycling"
May 2011- Pristiq/Lexapro bridge/taper
June, 2011- K cut to 0.5 mg (doctor)
July 18, 2011 - Lexapro done
October 2011- K taper started
Jan, 2012- Off K, Remeron started -bad idea
March 2012- Horrific Tardive Akathisa/TD (Dx: TA versus withdrawal akathisia secondary to K w/d)
May 2012- Reinstatement of K
Current Psych Meds: Klonopin 2 mg + Propanolol 15 mg and titrating up
As of June 2013: TA gone or suppressed - struggling with tolerance to benzos - beta blocker helping

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This discussion is interesting and I wonder if we are using different terminology to describe similar feelings.

 

I wake up with dread of life. I cant stay in bed. If I stay in bed, it gets much worse. I get up, coffee, watch some TV, check email, then often go back to bed. I cant think before noon, extremely fuzzy and disoriented. Had an emotional last weekend with husband's family and this week is a complete blur, like the days aren't connected.

 

I'm a bit more lucid later in the day.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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About 6 weeks ago, I started attending Recovery International. I am spotting my habits of self-sabotage and employing simple techniques in order to function despite my symptoms (withdrawal symptoms or otherwise) which in my situation are highly distressing, but not dangerous. If you are interested, feel free to look at the website.

 

It is helping me to live with the uncertainties of life, including my withdrawal. I wish the same for you. :) Hugs, Annej

 

Hi Anne, I'm just from a psychodynamic perspective. I agree there is no reason to get caught up in the contents of ruminations, though I do think with guidance it can be beneficial to look at why we tend to ruminate in the first place. Glad you are finding Recovery International helpful.~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

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This discussion is interesting and I wonder if we are using different terminology to describe similar feelings.

 

I wake up with dread of life. I cant stay in bed. If I stay in bed, it gets much worse. I get up, coffee, watch some TV, check email, then often go back to bed. I cant think before noon, extremely fuzzy and disoriented. Had an emotional last weekend with husband's family and this week is a complete blur, like the days aren't connected.

 

I'm a bit more lucid later in the day.

 

Hi Barb,

 

Just some rambling thoughts. . .

 

My morning ritual is very similar to yours. For me, I think my AM "fuzzy and disoriented" feelings are related to the hangover effects of the Klonopin as I tend to clear up during the course of the day. I am working very diligently on not returning to bed, even though the feeling is quite overwhelming. I think it makes me feel all around worse if I go back to bed. The Klonopin, being a benzo, depresses the CNS, and definitely accounts for my overall lethargy. I felt great for the first 4 weeks I was off the K until I took that trip to hell. I am saddened that I had to reinstate the K, but I could not live with the non-stop Tardive akathisia and Tardive dyskinesia. K was the only thing that stopped the torture. At the moment, I have to learn how to live with the side effects of benzos; the sedation, the fuzzy thinking, etc. After more stable time after reinstatement, I will ever so slowly reduce my dose. It simply comes down to quality of life - keeping the TA/TD at bay (while hopefully these recede as more time passes since my last dose of the offending drug(s), and learning how to live as best a quality of life that I can while being on a benzo. I realize that you are in a very similar situation as K helps you with the horrendous bruxism. :) Hugs, Annej

My Intro
2000-Effexor and Klonopin
April 2011- C/T Adderall, lithium, Seroquel, Lunesta; Pristiq and Klonopin cut by 1/2 due to med-induced "rapid cycling"
May 2011- Pristiq/Lexapro bridge/taper
June, 2011- K cut to 0.5 mg (doctor)
July 18, 2011 - Lexapro done
October 2011- K taper started
Jan, 2012- Off K, Remeron started -bad idea
March 2012- Horrific Tardive Akathisa/TD (Dx: TA versus withdrawal akathisia secondary to K w/d)
May 2012- Reinstatement of K
Current Psych Meds: Klonopin 2 mg + Propanolol 15 mg and titrating up
As of June 2013: TA gone or suppressed - struggling with tolerance to benzos - beta blocker helping

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