maree: Paxil tapering

[maree]

Hi and thanks for letting me join this forum. I'm 55 yrs old and have been on paxil for 20 years, due to a breakdown back then from stuffing down the abusive childhood I had. Over the last 3 years I have been tapering off the paxil from 60mgs per day to 30 mgs per day. It seemed to be ok (although I did blame myself for low moods etc and maybe not realized this was the tapering....don't know for sure?) Then on April 2nd (2018) I cut a corner  sliver off one of my daily tabs and since then I have had some big mood swings, irritability, impatience with people, bigger blues and more trouble co-ordinating my time and to do list. I don't work as I have CPTSD (Complex Post Traumatic Stress Dissorder). I attend online recovery groups for adults who have come from alcoholic and dysfunctional homes. I would love to hear from anyone who either can tell me if it's normal to have all these bad mood swings and also anyone who is in similar position as me with cptsd. Thanks. P.s Also I lost an online friend (for the time being I hope) because I was irritable and impatient. I've apologised. Has anyone else lost friends due to tapering? I'm going to do a much smaller taper next time and work hard on being concious of how I come across.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, maree.

 

Stop tapering right now! You have withdrawal symptoms. Restore that sliver, take your Paxil at the same time each day, and let your nervous system settle down for a good while. Then you can resume tapering. See Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[maree]

Thankyou Altostrata for your reply and the work you do on here as administrator so the rest of us can find help. I can't believe I'm making myself sit still and actually read and learn from this forum as my CPTSD usually stops me dong such things alone, (rush rush gotta keep moving aspect of CPTSD kinda like sitting on a train track with an approaching train most of the time. But I fighting that lie my brain is telling me now). I am very grateful for your interest and help. At first when you said stop tapering now I thought no I want to get off them as fast as possible. Then I thought about your position here and had a very brief look at tips for tapering link you sent and I thought "well I will get off, it will just be a lot easier her way'. So I, restored that sliver and stopped my taper this morning and have decided to take my meds at 8.30am every morning. I'll let my nervous system settle down for a good while, learn more about tapering and then consider starting again.  Also since I controlled and bullied some-one else in recovery  the other day without even knowing it at the time I'm going around explaining myself and my moods to people like the pysio I saw yesterday because I'm scared I'll do it again. So best I go back up on the meds for a while so I don't have to keep being scared of hurting people and explaining my moods to them. Thank you for the feeling of security this gives me knowing I have guidence from this forum now in this horrid meds issue.

[maree]

Well here's the timeline of my recent attempt, then aborting at tapering and what's happening: 2 April took a sliver off my dose of 1 and 1/2  20 mgs tablets. Had a terrible 10 days as in my post ablve. Then 12 April put the sliver back and felt better that very day (very surprised by that).
Had two good days.
Then one day of horrid depression.
Then two good days but last night was exhusted (no extra physical activity) and felt almost flu-like without the flu. Slept in for two extra a hours this morning
Then (today) another bad depression day and spending a lot of time in bed feeling like a band is around my head and still have flu like symptons
I'm going to read the tip for tapering again
Altostrata, if you read this, or if anyone else can advise me, am I posting this in the correct part of this forum?        thanks

[SkyBlue]

On 4/16/2018 at 11:54 PM, maree said:

am I posting this in the correct part of this forum?        thanks

 Hi Maree and welcome to SA.

 

Yes, you seem to be posting in the correct part of this forum. This introduction thread will be your place to ask questions and discuss your tapering process. 

 

It sounds like you reinstated your dose April 12 (put the sliver back) and are going to "hold" there for a while. 

The fact that you felt better that very day is a very good sign, and does indicate that what you experienced was withdrawal from a too-drastic change in dose. 

 

I'm glad you're reading through the site--there is a ton of great information here. 

Here are some more threads that you might find helpful: 

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
The general philosophy of gradual tapering

Preparing to taper
Taking care of yourself so you are prepared to taper.
 

Take care, and let us know how you're doing. 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

maree, it make take some time for your nervous system to settle down, it's had a shock. Be patient.

[maree]

Hello fellow taperers
Well it's so good to have this site to go to to post and get advice. thankyou thankyou thankyou. I'ts been 13 days now since in re-instated the sliver I took off my paxil/peroxitine and the awefull depression and anxiety has finally stabilised. The sliver I took off my 1 and a half tablets (from 2/4/18 - 12/4/18) was less than ten percent of my total dosage. So now I'm wondering, how soon can I look at starting to taper again and how much should I taper by? I'm thinking maybe starting in a week or two and just filing around 1/3 of the amount of the original sliver I tried to take off. That 1/3 of the original sliver i, I don't know, maybe around 1/45th of my total dose. Actually am I better to buy the precision scales for weighing my tablets and if so does anyone have the link to the ones I should buy for weighing tablets? Also does anyone have any ideas on how best keep the diary that is recommend we do.I have just put recent activity below in the interim. Any advice very welcome and gratefully recieved.

recent taperng activity-

2-12 April 2018 took sliver off Paxil/peroxitine: effects big anxiety&depression. Irritablity, controlling, impatient,scared

12/4/18 re-instated sliver and stopped tapering: effects immediate lessoning of aweful symptons from tapering

24/4/18 feel stabilised again:effects ready to look at tapering again but much less amount

[maree]

7 minutes ago, maree said:

Hello fellow taperers
Well it's so good to have this site to go to to post and get advice. thankyou thankyou thankyou. I'ts been 13 days now since in re-instated the sliver I took off my paxil/peroxitine and the awefull depression and anxiety has finally stabilised. The sliver I took off my 1 and a half tablets (from 2/4/18 - 12/4/18) was less than ten percent of my total dosage. So now I'm wondering, how soon can I look at starting to taper again and how much should I taper by? I'm thinking maybe starting in a week or two and just filing around 1/3 of the amount of the original sliver I tried to take off. That 1/3 of the original sliver i, I don't know, maybe around 1/45th of my total dose. Actually am I better to buy the precision scales for weighing my tablets and if so does anyone have the link to the ones I should buy for weighing tablets? Also does anyone have any ideas on how best keep the diary that is recommend we do.I have just put recent activity below in the interim. Any advice very welcome and gratefully recieved.

recent taperng activity-

2-12 April 2018 took sliver off Paxil/peroxitine: effects big anxiety&depression. Irritablity, controlling, impatient,scared

12/4/18 re-instated sliver and stopped tapering: effects immediate lessoning of aweful symptons from tapering

24/4/18 feel stabilised again:effects ready to look at tapering again but much less amount

Reminder to myself: We recommend reductions at monthly intervals to give the nervous system a good 3 weeks to settle down between cuts. To save wear and tear on your nervous system, after a taper stay at that level for a month to see if withdrawal symptoms develop.

[maree]

Hi SkyBlue and Altostrata, I was just checking over my  posts this morning. I was so sure I had posted you both individual thankyous for you personal helpfull posts to me. But I can't find where my posts to you have gone.   This may be a double up but thankyou for your posts with the help and advice you give. I look out for it.

 

[maree]

Well I thought I might start another taper on the 1st of May in two days time. This time though I will only do 7 double strokes across the end on one tablet to file off a tiny amount. I plan to do this for the one month and let my system get used to it and stabilise. Any advice, comments welcome.

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Maree--  Welcome to  SA, I'm so glad you found us. Tapering off of a high dose of Paxil after taking it for 20 years is a tricky business and can't be done in fits and starts, arbitrary changes and inaccurate methods.  It can be done, we have a number of members who are or have done it.  Myself included. If you haven't done so, please read the links that Alto ans Skyblue provided, they contain a lot of very good information. This is a very long slow and tedious process with a lot of patience required.

 

Getting a scale to measure out your doses is a very good idea.  The most common one used here is the Gemini-20 available on line for around 20 USD.  If you order one I would also suggest getting a bag of 1000 size "0" gel caps.  They make preparing your dose a lot easier.

 

Brassmonkey

[maree]

Hi Brass Monkey and thanks so much for you kind post to me. I have read the links that SkyeBlue and Alto kindly provided and as I understand from them it is no more than a 10% decrease of the current dose ( I plan to do way less than 10 %, it's going to be 7 double stroke of a nail file across the tablet that's part of the one and a half tablets i take daily). I also understand from those links to do it for a month a monitor how you feel. Have I got any of that incorrect?  P.S my doctor here in New Zealand said my meds only come in tablet form. But I am still happy to order the Gemini-20 if you think it will work with tablets. Thanks Maree  

 

[Centime]

Hi Maree,

I’m in the same situation as you, about to begin tapering off 60 mg of Paxil. I’ve taken it for 25 years. It’s a relief to me to find this site and be able to discuss this with others in the same boat.

[brassmonkey]

Maree-- I think you will make much better progress if you use the scales.  That way you can know just how much you have decreased and can do it in a very controlled manner. Just filing off a bit is really inaccurate and those inaccuracies can add up and cause big problems down the road.  At the beginning of a taper the reductions are very large while the dose is still pretty big so it is fairly easy to carve and scrape enough off of a tablet to hit the right weight.  It ends up being a lot easier to just crush the tablets into a powder and then weigh out just what you need and put it in the gel caps.

 

It sounds like you're in a very good place symptom wise and we don't want to do anything that might change that.  I posted a good description of my taper method just a few days ago.  We have a large number of members using it with very good results:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

 

[maree]

Hi fellow taperers. I am having fun trying to get my not so techy brain to work out how to use this site. I just saw I had a message to others sitting in a hold position for the last week and not actually sent.

Can some-one please confirm for me are these the correct medical scales to buy to taper off my Paroxitine/paxil tablets:
https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM


(My tablets are Paroxitine?Paxil Tables 20mg(APO) and the writing on the back of the foil sheet says:  Apo-paroxitine 20mg (as hydrochloride)(B)NA3817

 

[maree]

On 5/7/2018 at 3:00 PM, maree said:

(My tablets are Paroxitine?Paxil Tables 20mg(APO) and the writing on the back of the foil sheet says:  Apo-paroxitine 20mg (as hydrochloride)(B)NA3817

HI all, I've just gone onto Amazon and ordered my digital scales (https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM) and when they arrive I am going to start working out a very very small taper (2-7%). I have to weight and look at the size and compare it to my last non digitally scaled taper.

[Songbird]

Hi Maree, we have spreadsheets here to help you calculate your doses as a pill weight - see this topic (my dose weights spreadsheet is at the bottom of the first post):

 

How to calculate dosages spreadsheets and calculators

 

If you find you have difficulty tapering using a scale, there is a pharmaceutical compounding company in New Zealand that can make a liquid suspension of paroxetine - it is quite expensive and you need a prescription.

 

You might want to check out our topic for New Zealand members:  New Zealand members please check in here

 

 

[maree]

OH how did I miss this post from you Songbird. I am not a quick learner when it comes to working this site.  Thankyou so much for the information and I will look at those two links now. I noticed you list Paroxitine and Aropax separately?  My doctor told me they were exactly the same drug but with a different name? 

[maree]

HI again Songbird. When I went to this link    Excel spreadsheet to calculate dose weights using a scale      I got this message:   

Sorry, there is a problem

We could not locate the item you are trying to view.

Error code: 2F173/1

 

[Songbird]

Looks like the link doesn't work, I'll try to fix that. 

 

But the spreadsheet is right there at the bottom of that first post.  It's called Dose_weights_SA.xlsx or Dose_weights_SA.xls.  It will open in Microsoft Excel or OpenOffice.

[maree]

Thanks Songbird. Also can you help please how do I search and find others who are coming of paxil/paroxitne (about to or just started). I put words in the search box of this site, (paxil, paroxitine, 2018) but had no joy?

[Cheeky]

Hi Maree,

I”m another user of Paxil long term and just want to say welcome to the journey of coming off Paxil.

I’m currently doing a micro taper, as i’m sensitive to drops.

I’m here if you need anything.

 

Cheeky

[SkyBlue]

On 5/9/2018 at 6:10 PM, maree said:

HI all, I've just gone onto Amazon and ordered my digital scales (https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM) and when they arrive I am going to start working out a very very small taper (2-7%). I have to weight and look at the size and compare it to my last non digitally scaled taper.

 

I'm glad you ordered the scales! You're getting things ready to do a really smart taper.

 

And yes, typing "paxil" into the search bar should turn up other Paxil survivors. There are many of us here. If you haven't already, check out Brassmonkey's thread. : ) 

[maree]

Hi Fellow taperers' I'm trying to learn how to use my thread part on this site. But firstly I have not been in contact because part of my anxiety condition is to put myself into hyper activity and busyoholism with too much to do (and then rebelling and going into escapism with a romantic novel or netflix). It's a tough cycle that I'm working on and breaking. I think that the lovely people who use this site, of all people, will understand. I do apologise if it caused you any concern in any way though. 

I'm going to weigh my one and a half tablets and then I'm going to get a nail file and shave off two strokes then weigh, (on the medical scales this site recommended) my one and a half tablets again to make sure I haven't exceeded the 10% taper.

It's so good to be on this site where people understand xoxo

[Songbird]

Did you get the spreadsheet to work?  It's a good idea to weigh one tablet, so you can figure out what the half should weigh.

[maree]

good idea thanks for that Songbird

[brassmonkey]

I thought it would be a good idea to repost these calculations here so they don't get lost:

 

I got the idea of alternate dosing from the way you wrote the sentence last time.  No, alternate dosing is not a good idea. Any change takes four days to a week to become steady state in the blood, and until that happens your symptoms would be quite variable. So It's best to pick a dose and stick with it.

 

We are working with pills that have a strength of 20mgai(as listed on the package

Each pill weighs 239mgpw. (as measured on your scale)

To get  dose of 363mgpw your'e taking about 1 and 1/2 pills each time.

 

We want to figure out what the strength of your current dose is.  Se'll start by calculating the Active Ingredient Concentration of the pills. This is done by dividing the strength by the pill weight.

 

20/240 = 0.08

 

This means that for every 1mg of pill there is 0.08mg of active ingredient.

 

Your'e currently taking 363mgpw for your daily dose.  To calculate the strength of that dose we multiply the dose weight by the ACI.

 

363 x 0.08 = 29

 

So the strength of the dose you're taking is 29mgai.

 

You would figure future reductions by doing the same calculation on this as you would for determining your dose weight.  For a 2.5% reduction it would be 

 

29 X .975 = 28.27mgai

363 X .975 = 353mgpw

 

The neuroanxiety that tapering causes is some of the worst.  That's what I use to get.  The only things I found to work were distraction and acceptance.  Trying to fight against is only made it worse.  Heavy neuroemotions can be an indicator that it would be a good time to hold for a few weeks.  Let things settle out and then continue with the taper.

 

I hope the calculations help.

[maree]

wow thanks for all your help brass monkey
What does mgai stand for?
What does mgpw stand for?

What does ACI stand for?
 

By 9pm last night I found it too hard to stay with only 353 milligrams of my tablets in my system and took another 1/2 and then I found i had to do the same mid moring today. I"m wondering if 10% off the weight of my pills is too big a taper?

[maree]

Hi all, can anyone tell me is Paxil an SSRI antidepressant?  thanks and wishing everyone well on their own personal tapering journey

[brassmonkey]

Yes it is and SSRI antidepressant.  It works by "down regulating" or plugging up the serotonin receptors in the nervous system.  This causes an excess of serotonin to build up which is meant to make us feel better. That's the theory that the drug companies work with.  In reality it's a lot more complicated and they freely admit that they don't know how they work.  As we are slowly finding out, in many cases they don't even work at all.

[maree]

thanks Brassmonkey for that info. It's so helpful to be able to come here and find out information about this stuff

[Carmie]

On 7/4/2018 at 5:25 PM, maree said:

Hi Fellow taperers' I'm trying to learn how to use my thread part on this site. But firstly I have not been in contact because part of my anxiety condition is to put myself into hyper activity and busyoholism with too much to do (and then rebelling and going into escapism with a romantic novel or netflix). It's a tough cycle that I'm working on and breaking. I think that the lovely people who use this site, of all people, will understand. I do apologise if it caused you any concern in any way though. 

I'm going to weigh my one and a half tablets and then I'm going to get a nail file and shave off two strokes then weigh, (on the medical scales this site recommended) my one and a half tablets again to make sure I haven't exceeded the 10% taper.

It's so good to be on this site where people understand xoxo

 

Hi Maree, 

 

Just read what you wrote in July. Yes, it’s hard to find a balance sometimes, isn’t it? We can go from doing too much to totally going into hibernation. 

 

I think you made up a new word: busyoholism😀.

 

Wishing you all the best in your continued tapering 💚

 

 

[maree]

Thanks Carmie for stopping by to give you greeting and support. I appreciate. Yes I am struggling with this busyness. I wonder if anyone else also suffers from fixating (that's waht I call it when a problem goes around and around in your mind to the point of anxiety inducement tingling, unable to focus on other thigns etc)?

[maree]

Hi everyone. I hope all are having many successes with their SA stories and if not getting the wonderful support here that I get. It is such a comfort for me to know I can come here for questions.

 

I'm tyring to very slowly taper off paxil/paroxitine and ssri drug. It has been awefull and to get off them completely at this rate would take another 57 years. So for rest of my life it looks like I'm going to be tapering, so I'll just take it as easy as possible for quality of life and also be able to become increasing more aware (without brain closing off awarenesses in my 12 step ACA recovery as much) but not tapering too fast. I need to go at least this slow so as to not become too suicidal when doing the tapering off them. It has taken me 13 weeks to file off 7 grams from my paroxitne tablet and a half. The tablet and a half orginally weighed 379 grams and now 372 gram. Even at this low and slow rate I went from suicidal ideation to a patch in one day last week of suicidal planning. I recognised it forwhat it was. I also feel much much better now.

Question. I asked my doctor ifthere was a drug I could swap over to that would make tapering easier and faster. He said he's go from my 30mg paroxitine/paxil to              venlafaxine 37.5.  I am not even considering anything until I hear from the wiser people on this site. What do folk on SA think of that swap please? I would really appreciate your impput as the doctors are what got me in this mess.

warm regards Maree

[Altostrata]

Maree, Paxil is a bear to taper. The swap usually recommended by doctors for Paxil is The Prozac switch or "bridging" with Prozac

 

Are you taking any drugs other than Paxil?

[maree]

Hi Altostrata, Thankyou so very much for your response and information. I appreciate you moderators on here so much. When I first had my complete breakdown about 21 years ago they firstly tried me on prozac and it was not good  for me and I believe from memory made me worse. So it was then they switched me to paxil. So I guess I'm stuck with paxil.  Thankyou  Altrostrata so much once again...you ladies rock xoxo Maree  p.s I can't help wondering why over the course of a year I could go from 3 whole tablets down to 1 and 1/2 tablets with no worries and now I can't even take the teeniest amount off without a big reaction. Anyway I guess that's how these drugs work. AndI wassuicidal when I went on them so I guess the doctors had  no other choice but to put me on them.