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brassmonkey

Tao of the Brassmonkey

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Longroadhome
On 6/1/2019 at 8:45 PM, brassmonkey said:

I think I've mentioned this before, but this time it's meant with a lot of positive responses so I will repost it here so it will become part of the Tao.  Many people express concern that their life has been ruined by ADWD.  My feeling is, only if you let it and explain it this way:

 

Many years ago when I was in film school I took a course in writing and directing motion pictures.  One of the main points that was made during the course was "there is the film you imagine in your mind, the film you write and the film that actually gets produced". Over the course of my life I have learned that this is more than true for the "life you actually live".  For people making it through ADWD, we are being given a very valuable second chance at life.  We have had our lives cruelly ripped apart down to the very foundations, but now we get to rebuild them with a much greater knowledge of just what is important and what isn't.  We also have developed an inner strength that is amazing.  After ADWD nothing will be this hard ever again.  So please don't convince yourself that your life is ruined. It is changed, yes, and not what you planned, but the possibilities, oh the possibilities, and we just have to take control and make them happen.

Thank you for this post Brass you keep me going 

can I ask a question please

i have  been offered steroid injections to some damage I have in my elbow and hip called Bursitis. 

Is a steroid injection ok to have while going through wd. 

Im holding on  Paxil 8:4 mg from February from a too fast taper . 

Obviously don’t want steroid if it’s going to make my symptoms worse.

 

one other question can anxiety and depression go up and down in severity during wd even though I’m holding and haven’t made any changes as it has worsened over a few weeks from being low level  for no apparent reason ?

thank you for continuing to support us . 

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brassmonkey

We've seen a lot of mixed results from steroid injections here.  Some people have very bad reactions while others they help.  I would be very careful myself. Have you tried a topical gel such as Voltarn or Arnica Gel?  

 

Anxiety and depression will come and go as they see fit.  There is no pattern to them.  Some people report getting them at specific times during the day while others have them nonstop for weeks on end.  I've had it both ways, neither is any fun.  My 8, 12 and 18 month waves were all intense anxiety that started one day, lasted for several weeks and then died out over several days. All I could do was accept that the anxiety was there and go about my life as best as I could.  With a little practice it can be ignored for the most part.

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mdwstrx

Hi Tom.

Can you recall the longest you were especially symptomatic and on hold after a cut?  Been two weeks here after 4th cut with no sign of let up.  Then there is the question of when to taper again when it does clear after such a strong reaction.  Just learning my reaction to your slide method.

Thanks!

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brassmonkey

If you are still symptomatic then it would be a good idea to hold a bit longer.  It's best if the symptoms can return to WDnormal before the next reduction. It can take several reductions for a pattern to show up and work out a bit of fine tuning on the timing of reductions and holds.

 

I was really lucky in that once I really got going my symptoms would usually resolve beck to WDnormal in the final two week time frame.  But that was after I had worked my way out of poopout.  During that time I was just blindly following my planned taper and hoping for the best. During that time my symptoms were all over the place minute by minute, hour by hour things would change. It took about two and a half years before I was really aware that things were improving and a pattern was beginning to show up after each reduction.

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mdwstrx

I have no choice but to wait since symptoms are pretty are rough and noticeable to others. 

Will spare details but suffice it to say I'm needing to keep a low profile. 

Living alone, it's hard to get out of your own head. 🤔

I don't know how you walked through this before things settled more for you.  You have my admiration!

Thanks for your feedback.

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Longroadhome
On 6/3/2019 at 7:58 PM, brassmonkey said:

We've seen a lot of mixed results from steroid injections here.  Some people have very bad reactions while others they help.  I would be very careful myself. Have you tried a topical gel such as Voltarn or Arnica Gel?  

 

Anxiety and depression will come and go as they see fit.  There is no pattern to them.  Some people report getting them at specific times during the day while others have them nonstop for weeks on end.  I've had it both ways, neither is any fun.  My 8, 12 and 18 month waves were all intense anxiety that started one day, lasted for several weeks and then died out over several days. All I could do was accept that the anxiety was there and go about my life as best as I could.  With a little practice it can be ignored for the most part.

I’m looking into the topical gel now so thank you. 

Brass you talk about “real recovery” happening once off medication so can I ask you; I hit poop out 10 months ago on Paxil then a too fast taper led to heightened symptoms . I’ve held at 8.4mg Paxil since Feb 2019. Do I hold now until I have no symptoms then continue Will that ever happen while still on Paxil and having poop out? 

You said it took you 2.5 years to navigate your way out of poop out while tapering before starting to experience some kind of stability while continuing to decrease. 

Therefore do I now continue to taper using the sliding scale because I started with poop out and it’s not going to get better unless I decrease and get off Paxil? 

In other words would homeostasis happen while still on this drug and having hit poop out, if I hold? Or indeed any kind of stability ? 

I value your opinion as my journey with poop out and Paxil is similar to yours. 

Thank you so much for the strength you give to us through your messages. You are my hero. 

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brassmonkey
Posted (edited)

Hi LRH -- this is just a quick note to say that I'm not ignoring your question, but rather because there have been a lot of questions about tapering out of poopout lately I am going to take a few days and write up a proper answer for everyone to read.

 

I'm really losing track of what I've done before.  Here is a link to it:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-354114

 

Edited by brassmonkey
added link

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Ruthmcg
10 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi LRH -- this is just a quick note to say that I'm not ignoring your question, but rather because there have been a lot of questions about tapering out of poopout lately I am going to take a few days and write up a proper answer for everyone to read.

 

I'm really losing track of what I've done before.  Here is a link to it:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-354114

 

 

Thanks Brassmonkey, this link is really helpful. Seems like stabilisation can take a loooooong time. Reassures me somewhat. Hope you are doing well today. Many thanks for all your contributions to this site. 

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Longroadhome
On 6/8/2019 at 8:48 PM, brassmonkey said:

Hi LRH -- this is just a quick note to say that I'm not ignoring your question, but rather because there have been a lot of questions about tapering out of poopout lately I am going to take a few days and write up a proper answer for everyone to read.

 

I'm really losing track of what I've done before.  Here is a link to it:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-354114

 

Brass you talk about “real recovery” happening once off medication so can I ask you; I hit poop out 10 months ago on Paxil then a too fast taper led to heightened symptoms . I’ve held at 8.4mg Paxil since Feb 2019. Do I hold now until I have no symptoms then continue Will that ever happen while still on Paxil and having poop out? 

You said it took you 2.5 years to navigate your way out of poop out while tapering before starting to experience some kind of stability while continuing to decrease. 

Therefore do I now continue to taper using the sliding scale because I started with poop out and it’s not going to get better unless I decrease and get off Paxil? 

In other words would homeostasis happen while still on this drug and having hit poop out, if I hold? Or indeed any kind of stability ? 

I value your opinion as my journey with poop out and Paxil is similar to yours. 

Thank you so much for the strength you give to us through your messages. You are my hero.

 

have I missed the post Brass ? 

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brassmonkey

Hi LRH-- Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you.  Most of the information is in the link I sent.  

 

Poopout is a weird situation in which the body and the drug are fighting for control.  It actually is a form of withdrawal because the body has started to find ways around the affects of the drug and is trying to function normally while the drug is trying to make it function the way it wants it to.  The only way to change the situation is to reduce the amount of the drug in a slow manner so the body can make the changes necessary to function with out it, but not reducing enough to increase the WD symptoms.  So in effect the only way to get out of poopout is to reduce the dose of the drug.

 

Homeostasis will happen eventually, once the drug has been reduced to the point that the body has regained control.  For me that took 2.5 years because I was on a very large dose, 40mg, and had been in poopout for several years.  I don't think you will need that long to stabilize. Your body will be recovering all the while during your taper, you just might not feel it until things stabilize.  As long as there is some of the drug present in your body it will be causing some  negative affect.  Which is why "real recovery" can't happen until you are completely off of the drug.

 

Your best bet would be to start a slow gentle taper and let your body start to sort things out.  I would suggest the Brassmonkey Slide Method because it is really good at reducing the symptoms that accompany each reduction.  This would be to reduce by 2.5% a week for four weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks.  This will give a total reduction of 10% every six weeks.  Which is a bit slower than our recommended 10% taper, but will still move the reduction rate along at a good speed. I wouldn't expect the symptoms to clear up with just a few reductions, but you shouldn't get any big increase either.  Typically there will be a spike in symptoms a couple of days after each decrease, but that spike should drop off by the time the next reduction is called for. If you do get a very large increase in symptoms then doing smaller reductions would be called for, say 1.25% a week on the same schedule.

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crashcourse
9 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Poopout is a weird situation in which the body and the drug are fighting for control.  It actually is a form of withdrawal because the body has started to find ways around the affects of the drug and is trying to function normally while the drug is trying to make it function the way it wants it to.  The only way to change the situation is to reduce the amount of the drug in a slow manner so the body can make the changes necessary to function with out it, but not reducing enough to increase the WD symptoms.  So in effect the only way to get out of poopout is to reduce the dose of the drug.

 

Homeostasis will happen eventually, once the drug has been reduced to the point that the body has regained control. 

 

For some reason I can't get my head around the meaning of poop-out. Reading above doesn't it imply that poop-out and WD are the same, since symptoms will be the same?

 

I am currently tapering and I get WD effects every now and then esp when cutting. So how do I differentiate WD from poop-out? 

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Longroadhome
14 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi LRH-- Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you.  Most of the information is in the link I sent.  

 

Poopout is a weird situation in which the body and the drug are fighting for control.  It actually is a form of withdrawal because the body has started to find ways around the affects of the drug and is trying to function normally while the drug is trying to make it function the way it wants it to.  The only way to change the situation is to reduce the amount of the drug in a slow manner so the body can make the changes necessary to function with out it, but not reducing enough to increase the WD symptoms.  So in effect the only way to get out of poopout is to reduce the dose of the drug.

 

Homeostasis will happen eventually, once the drug has been reduced to the point that the body has regained control.  For me that took 2.5 years because I was on a very large dose, 40mg, and had been in poopout for several years.  I don't think you will need that long to stabilize. Your body will be recovering all the while during your taper, you just might not feel it until things stabilize.  As long as there is some of the drug present in your body it will be causing some  negative affect.  Which is why "real recovery" can't happen until you are completely off of the drug.

 

Your best bet would be to start a slow gentle taper and let your body start to sort things out.  I would suggest the Brassmonkey Slide Method because it is really good at reducing the symptoms that accompany each reduction.  This would be to reduce by 2.5% a week for four weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks.  This will give a total reduction of 10% every six weeks.  Which is a bit slower than our recommended 10% taper, but will still move the reduction rate along at a good speed. I wouldn't expect the symptoms to clear up with just a few reductions, but you shouldn't get any big increase either.  Typically there will be a spike in symptoms a couple of days after each decrease, but that spike should drop off by the time the next reduction is called for. If you do get a very large increase in symptoms then doing smaller reductions would be called for, say 1.25% a week on the same schedule.

Thank you. 

The time you dedicate to this site is so very much appreciated . 

You’re my bright star on a dark road. 

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Sassenach

Hi Sunshine.

 

Just checking in.

Hope the road is not too dark today.

I could really do with a laugh so how about this.

I nearly called you my ray of brummy sunshine,  then I realised some are unhappy with the description,

Could be worse though, you could live in Goole. Sorry best I can manage.

I don't really know why I am writing this cos no doubt you are out painting the town. OMG now I am talking to myself on the bloody computer.

Byeeeeeeeeeee

 

 

SAS

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Sassenach

Sorry Brass wrong thread.

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