Jump to content
brassmonkey

Tao of the Brassmonkey

Recommended Posts

brassmonkey

Well something unpleasant is starting to happen. Several times over the past seek I've had some very strong irrational emotional outbursts, similar to what started this whole mess all those years ago.  Then started the alternating nights of very fitful sleep and general malaise.  Yesterday it hit like a ton of bricks with extreme outbursts and intense depression with no particular trigger and no real reason.  Had  a reasonable nights sleep but still heavy depression right after getting up.  We will see if things start to clear up later today.  If things hold true to pattern though this would be the start of my 18 month wave.  It's not 18 months for another six or seven weeks, but each of the other waves have been early.  Interesting that it's violent depression this time and not anxiety like the last ones were.  Could be just a short blip, but only time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mdwstrx

I'm sorry to hear Tom. 

Praying things settle quickly.  

Thank you for documenting your steps. 

It's so appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Longroadhome
1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

Well something unpleasant is starting to happen. Several times over the past seek I've had some very strong irrational emotional outbursts, similar to what started this whole mess all those years ago.  Then started the alternating nights of very fitful sleep and general malaise.  Yesterday it hit like a ton of bricks with extreme outbursts and intense depression with no particular trigger and no real reason.  Had  a reasonable nights sleep but still heavy depression right after getting up.  We will see if things start to clear up later today.  If things hold true to pattern though this would be the start of my 18 month wave.  It's not 18 months for another six or seven weeks, but each of the other waves have been early.  Interesting that it's violent depression this time and not anxiety like the last ones were.  Could be just a short blip, but only time will tell.

You’re  in my thoughts Brass. Really hope if it is a wave that it comes to an end quickly.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
getofflex

Hang in there brass monkey.  You are in my thoughts and prayers.  This too shall pass.  It sucks, but it will come to and end.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wantrelief

I am really sorry you are going through this - I am hoping, as you said, that it is just a short blip.  You are in my thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Happy2Heal
6 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

If things hold true to pattern though this would be the start of my 18 month wave.  It's not 18 months for another six or seven weeks, but each of the other waves have been early.  Interesting that it's violent depression this time and not anxiety like the last ones were.  Could be just a short blip, but only time will tell.

so sorry you've been hit with this Brass.

 

um what's this about an 18 mos wave? I had no idea there was such a thing.

is it really common?

I'm at almost 2yrs off ( I thought you got off before me, so now I'm really confused!! edit, you did get off before me, in April and I got off in Oct, doh!!) )

I was ok at 18 mos, as far as I know, although I did move to a new apt that month.
it turns out to have been a bad move and now I"m trying to move back.

 

I've been not feeling too well but assumed it was normal life stuff; your post has me wondering if I could have a wave this far out.

I guess I just assumed that anything after the first year off wouldn't be related to WD since overall my life has been really good, much better than I'd hoped.

Lately, not so much, a lot of anxiety, but I"m facing another move so there's a reason, right?

 

anyway when you get a chance perhaps you could fill me in about this 18 mos wave and any other patterns you've noticed in WD in others, How many actual case of an 18 mos wave are there, roughly?

 

I guess right now I'm hoping that how I've been feeling lately is WD and not "me" :P

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Hi Happy-- I'm so glad you didn't know what an 18 month wave is.  Not everybody gets them but enough have that it is recognized as a thing.  The more common one is the 10 month wave.  I ended up having ones at 8 and 12 months.  It will be a few days before I can actually declare this one as a wave, with any luck it's just a really bad couple of days.  I did an essay on them a while back, you can read it here:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-354120

 

Since I wrote it there has been conformation by several people about the 3 year wave, so I may have some rewriting to do.

 

Normal life stuff is so tough right now for everyone that it would be very hard to tell the difference, but my bet would be of normal life stuff and not WD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Happy2Heal
9 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Happy-- I'm so glad you didn't know what an 18 month wave is.  Not everybody gets them but enough have that it is recognized as a thing.  The more common one is the 10 month wave.  I ended up having ones at 8 and 12 months.

thanks so much for your reply Brass.

 Funny I had one around 11-12 mos but not 10. I can't recall how things were at 8 mos though. 

it would be interesting if we could get enough people past zero together to do a survey to find out what the most common time frame is. Also would be interesting to see which drug(s) were implicated. It appears that paxil is one that causes some long term issues. Lexapro is pretty intense to get off of, but it seems to get out of the system faster, for lack of a better way to describe it. Who knows? 

 

When I let myself believe that my current issues are WD related, I instantly felt *better*....probably for a couple of reasons. I feel much more confident in my ability to handle WD symptoms, and I know that WD symptoms end. Plus I almost always end up in a better place after the wave is over. 
When I think of my symptoms as related to life events, my symptoms ramp up considerably-  I would guess because I feel a lot less confident in my ability to handle life events "un-medicated". I suddenly feel like I've let things get out of control, and the pressure to do something to fix things is intense and unrelenting. I suddenly feel like i"m doing "life" all wrong. So better for me to consider this a wave. I know waves end and I know that they are out of my control. That helps me relax. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dejavu

How are you today Tom?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nick1990

Wow, this is interesting Tom. When you say similar to what started the whole thing , do you mean as in prior to taking Paxil ? 

 

Im sure it’ll pass soon and you’ll handle it just fine bro ! 

Hugs 🤗 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Things have evened out quite nicely Dejavu.  I holding out hope that it was a one time situational type of thing. I'll give it a few more days before calling it.

 

Nick--  Thanks for the hugs bro.  Yea, I meant prepaxil.  I initially went on it for Spontaneous Outbursts of Intense Irrational Anger, that lead to some very unpleasant situations.  This was quite reminiscent of one of those outbursts, even had the several days of build up before hand so I should have seen it coming.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dejavu

So glad to hear it! Was concerned for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Longroadhome
6 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Things have evened out quite nicely Dejavu.  I holding out hope that it was a one time situational type of thing. I'll give it a few more days before calling it.

 

Nick--  Thanks for the hugs bro.  Yea, I meant prepaxil.  I initially went on it for Spontaneous Outbursts of Intense Irrational Anger, that lead to some very unpleasant situations.  This was quite reminiscent of one of those outbursts, even had the several days of build up before hand so I should have seen it coming.  

Good to hear this Brass keep us posted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gridley

Thank you for chronicling this, Brass.  Your work provides an important roadmap.  I'm very glad you're feeling better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glosmom

Hi Tom,

Glad things are looking up. I was re-reading your thread to gain inspiration for my daughter. Was curious if you are doing your annual Haunted Event?  I recall reading that it requires a ton of work. Best Wishes to you!  Glosmom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Hi Glosmom-- yea, we are hot and heavy in to it. Got back from a road trip two weeks ago and started the next day setting things up.  We've kept really good records of what needs to happen each day of the build so it makes it a lot easier.  Also we are changing things up a bit this year, dropping out some of the older things and only replacing a few of them so that will make things a bit easier.  We do a lot of the indoor stuff first so as to not upset the neighbors with all that stuff on the lawn, in a couple of weeks the carnival midway goes up, that is the really big push and makes for a very busy weekend for a bunch of people.  It's been really hot again this year, so I'm thinking that the heat had something to do with setting off the wave that I'm going through.  Which is a lot better today BTW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JackieDecides
4 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

he wave that I'm going through.  Which is a lot better today BTW

 

I'm glad things are better today.

 

I'm also glad I read the last few posts because I'm going to hit 18 months in November and I want to be forewarned there may be a wave coming up. 

 

like Happy2Heal, I want the really bad times to be A Wave and not just the way my life is going to be!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sassenach

Hi Brass

 

I obviously do not come here frequently enough.

I did not know you were having a wobble, but really happy to see to see you back on form.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Well it looks like the wave didn't develop. Just had a couple of rough days that seem to have been situational.

 

Having to move carefully for a while.  I've had an ongoing problem with my back for many years.  The main muscle up the right side has taken a real beating all my working life, being right handed and doing a lot of heavy lifting , stirring thick/stiff materials and spreading them out and the like have take a tole on my entire right side.  Much of my shoulder problems and pain in my hand are due to the years of abuse.  From time to time my back says enough is enough and the muscle spasms and that time is now.  If I move very carefully I can get some work done, trying to set up the Halloween Haunt, but have to really pay attention or I will pay the price for several hours. Arnica gel, heat packs, gentle stretching and my recliner really help.  It's been a couple of days without a bad flair up so things seem to be working.

 

Just wanted to note that I had two visual migraines in my sleep the other night.  Didn't see them in  my dreams but when I woke up enough to roll over there they were.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Here is an excellent translation of the description for the Brassmonkey Slide in French:

 

la méthode de base Brassmonkey Slide consiste en quatre (4) réductions hebdomadaires de 2,5% consécutives avec une période supplémentaire de deux (2) semaines.   Cela donne une réduction totale de 10% sur six (6) semaines.   Bien que ce ne soit pas le plan de réduction standard, il est très proche.   La suspension de deux (2) semaines supplémentaires est très nécessaire pour laisser les effets cumulatifs des quatre (4) réductions s'installer et les choses revenir à leur niveau de base avant de tenter la réduction suivante.

 

Ainsi, le calendrier de réduction ressemble à ceci:

 

            Semaine 1 réduire 2,5%

            Semaine 2 réduire un supplément de 2,5% (pour un total de 5%)

            Semaine 3 réduire un supplément de 2,5% (pour un total de 7,5%)

            Semaine 4 réduire un supplément de 2,5% (pour un total de 10%)

            Semaines 5,6 Tenir au dernier niveau de réduction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

I've written another description of how the Brassmonkey Slide works and want to post it here for future reference:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method is designed to provide a large reduction in medication as quickly as possible while keeping the symptoms associated with the reduction to a minimum.  It has been found that a reduction of 10% of the previous dose is about the biggest reduction a person can make without causing major symptoms.  There will be some, but they are a lot worse if a person does a bigger reduction.  We have also found that the fastest a persons brain can accept that reduction is four (4) weeks.  If you go faster then the symptoms build up and cause a major outbreak of severe symptoms that can take a very long time to resolve.  That is why the recommended taper that SA provides is 10% every four (4) weeks.

 

The big drawback is that reducing 10% all at once causes a very large shock of symptoms a few days later.  The idea behind the Brassmonkey Slide Method is to spread that shock out over several weeks by doing four (4) smaller reductions on successive weeks until the desired amount has been decreased.  The 10% reduction is divided into four (4) parts and a new part is added each week.  So you start by reducing 2.5% the first week, 5% the second, 7.5% the third and finally 10% on the fourth week.  Because the symptoms don't fully resolve two (2) more weeks are added at the 10% level to let that happen.

 

It doesn't have to be a 10% reduction, any percentage can be used.  It just shouldn't be larger than 10%. It is quite common for people to use a total reduction of 5%, or even as small as 1%.  It depends on how comfortable people are with the resulting symptoms.  However, decreasing the percentage will increase the time it takes to completely get off of the drug. So a 5% reduction will take twice as long as a 10% reduction and a 2.5% reduction will take four (4) times as long.  For a time reference the standard 10% Brassmonkey Slide Method has a half life of nine (9) months.  This means that if you are currently taking 10mgai for your dose, in nine (9) months you will be taking 5mgai and in a year and a half (18 months) you would be taking 2.5mgai and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
InChristAlone

Hey Brass, I have read so much of your stuff, and I truly appreciate your insights and the motivation you have provided me. My vision has been bother me since I went into poopout on Lexapro almost 2 years ago. I’ve seen where you described it as grainy vision. I describe my vision as almost like I’m looking through a screen door or watching old school color tv. Is that similar to what you call grainy vision? Just curious. I’m fairly certain my vision is withdrawal related, but you know how the mind likes to play games. I’m hoping at some point in the future to have my vision return to somewhat normal. 
 

Thanks! It’s awesome to see you still doing well! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Hi ICA-- Yea, that would describe it pretty well. Vision problems seem to be pretty common for people in ADWD, but they seem t clear up as the dose is tapered.  Mine has been pretty normal since I made the jump.  Now all I am fighting is age related problems, have to use reading glasses for anything  up close and have a few floaters, but that's pretty common for most people. Ah the tricks our minds like to play on us, especially on things that are really important to us, like our vision.  Things will get better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
InChristAlone

Thank you so much for your response! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

I was planning of posting this last Wednesday but things have just been too busy and I overlooked the day.  As of the 15th I have been drug free for two and a half years.  I know this thread started a year and a half ago, but that is because I waited a year before declaring a success story. It even confuses me to look at the dates, but yes it's two and a half years.  ADWD is pretty much in the past now, there may be some lingering symptoms but I can't tell them from the fatigue and body pain caused by the arthritis and muscle spasms.  I've lead a very physical work life and it has taken a real toll on my body.  Since my retirement several years ago my muscles have slowly been sorting them selves out and relaxing from the abuse of working.  It is a long slow process but is progressing.  The physical damage that has caused arthritis in my hands and shoulders is another story and will probably call for a more physical intervention.  It's time to start working with the doctors to sort that out.  I'm not at all excited by the prospect of shoulder surgery but it will probably come to that.

 

Any way this post was to let people know that it's been a while since I stopped all my meds and life is going quite well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

Just for my records I was hit with a visual migraine last night about 2am.  Pretty typical except that it progressed to the left and was more "sparkly" than usual.

Now at 11am I'm getting hit with another, this time progressing to the right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Happy2Heal
23 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

was planning of posting this last Wednesday but things have just been too busy and I overlooked the day.  As of the 15th I have been drug free for two and a half years.

congratulations Tom!

 

it's so good that you are continuing to post, it's helpful for a lot of folks I"m sure but esp helpful to me, so I've very grateful that you take the time to keep checking in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Happy2Heal
33 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Just for my records I was hit with a visual migraine last night about 2am.  Pretty typical except that it progressed to the left and was more "sparkly" than usual.

Now at 11am I'm getting hit with another, this time progressing to the right.

 

just curious, did you have visual migraines before taking paxil? 

was this a symptom you had during WD?

 

or is this a totally new thing for you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

I can still remember having my first one in 7th grade while sitting in World History Class.  My second one was a few years later.  I didn't have any more until I was well into poopout on 40mgai paxil. Then I got one and again six months later.  They started happening more frequently while I was tapering and even more so since I've been drug free.  Now I seem to be getting two or three over a couple of days period every few months.  The time line makes you wonder.

 

For most of my life I've gotten regular migraine headaches that were just killer.  I seemed to grow out of them in my mid 50s and have only had a few mild ones since.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Longroadhome
12 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

I can still remember having my first one in 7th grade while sitting in World History Class.  My second one was a few years later.  I didn't have any more until I was well into poopout on 40mgai paxil. Then I got one and again six months later.  They started happening more frequently while I was tapering and even more so since I've been drug free.  Now I seem to be getting two or three over a couple of days period every few months.  The time line makes you wonder.

 

For most of my life I've gotten regular migraine headaches that were just killer.  I seemed to grow out of them in my mid 50s and have only had a few mild ones since.

You say the time line makes you wonder what do you mean ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matti

Hello Brassmonkey.

 

I wish you patience and strength dealing with the physical issues.

 

I've worked a few years as a shipbuilder. Doing that kind of work year after year can really wear you down. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

The increase in visual migraines correlates with the time I was taking the highest dose of paxil and continues on through out my taper and has increased even more since I stopped taking the drug.  Correlation doesn't prove causality but it does make me wonder if things are related.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guilietta

Hello BrassMonkey,

 

Hope all is well. I am stuck with counting 2 beads from an average number of beads per capsule. I don't know if I will get a consistent dose.  Would you mind advising please?  I also copied to Gridley.

 

Thanks,

 

Just now, Guilietta said:

@Gridley@brassmonkey Need your advice please on beads....

 

Hi Gridley and BrassMonkey

 

Today is to be my first day of taking beads (.4 mg - what is 2 beads)!  I am stuck because while I calculated an average of 100 beads per capsule in December - when 5% of an average 100 beads had less of an impact. However - now that I am down to 2 beads (.4 mg) of 100 beads  - what impact does this have on my daily dose?

 

If (likely with) the amount of beads varying from capsule to capsule - even from 100 to 105 to 108 (hypotehtically speaking) - would the difference of a single bead be significant?  (I would think that my daily dose could vary from .4 mg to .6 to .8. in such an instance). 😕

 

What do I do? 🤔

 

Thanks

 

Giuilietta

 

p.s. The SERT occupancy for cymbalta is about 30% for cymbalta at (<0-5 ng/ml). 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brassmonkey

On the road again.  Catching a plane tomorrow evening, will be on the down-low for three weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nick1990

Have fun bro ! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy