MamaFlower: Paxil withdrawal or PTSD or what?

[MamaFlower]

I am in a very, very bad place. 

I am begging you on my hands and knees to PLEASE answer my two questions. Please. Any mods?? I am  begging you. 

[MamaFlower]

Q2:  What time of day do you take your drug? 10:00pm

 

Q3:  What is your current daily symptom pattern, ie please tell us the symptom and the approximate time that the symptom happens? I am having a full blown nervous breakdown. Every symptom of PTSD including flashbacks, insomnia, night terrors, panic attacks, depersonalization nonstop, hopeless, terror

 

Q4:  Please also list what symptoms have worsened, what has stayed the same and what has improved (if any), since you reinstated. Worse times a billion but I have also not been seeking therapy for the trauma. I just began with a therapist and she wants to help me but says I need answers to those 2 questions before we can move forward with a solid plan since I am so unstable. My husband and children are also desperate for answers. If someone could please, from the bottom of my little heart, please answer those two questions it would mean the world to me and my babies. Please. 

[MamaFlower]

I will pay you whatever it takes. Anything. 

I need to sort through this. Thank you. Just yes or no. Please. 

[bubbles]

Hello Michelle

 

I'm sorry you're not doing well. I'm not a mod, so I'm not able to attempt to answer your questions. I did just want to drop by to say that I just checked your math and I agree that it looks like less than 10% drops. 10% looks to me like 8, 7.2, 6.5 etc.

 

Best,

B

[MamaFlower]

Bubbles, thank you. I question my sanity and brain every second and math is not my strong suit. Thank you for your validation. 

I am praying I get at least one mod to answer my two questions tonight so I can try and get some sleep. 

Thank you again it means a lot to me

 

[MamaFlower]

My therapist believes I had a total full-body PTSD nervous breakdown that was only made worse by the timing of the small drop in paxil. But until I know the facts of those 2 answers, my heart will be questioning nonstop what the truth of my brain/body situation is. It's so hard for me because I was victimized by the paxil drug company AND by an evil stranger one night and I just want these two questions answered because I have no control over anything in my life anymore. Having a yes or no to those two questions would help my heart so very much. I cannot even begin to tell you. -M 

[bubbles]

I'm sorry you're feeling bad. Hopefully a mod will be along shortly.

[Altostrata]

On 4/21/2018 at 4:19 PM, MamaFlower said:

My pms and period time have always been horrific - and I've always had tremendous anxiety around those times as well. I went to my endocrinologist and gyno when they first happened and she told me this is classic perimenopause and when I asked what the cure is she said Birth Control Pills or major sleeping aids. UGH! WHY!???

 

Some women having difficulty going off drugs have worse symptoms at certain times of their menstrual cycle. You are sleeping sometimes, correct? Is that related to your cycle? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages -- plus where you are in your cycle.

 

What is your estrogen status? If it's at a menopausal level, your sleep might be improved a little with an estrogen patch, prescribed at my request by my doctor. I used a microdose Menostar 14mcg patch, which can be expensive; to save money, some women will cut a normal dose patch in half for a microdose. The microdose does not have to be opposed by progesterone; you'll have to discuss this with your doctor.

 

Your symptom pattern will also help determine whether it's the 14mg Paxil that's causing problems. At the beginning of this topic, we had an exchange about whether it might be too much. You take it at 10 p.m., does it make you sleepy? Is there any identifiable symptom pattern that occurs after 10 p.m.?

 

[MamaFlower]

Hello, Alto. 

It is no longer in line with my cycle. 

Can you please answer my two questions though? They are essential for my recovery. 

Have you, in your experience, ever seen someone have a complete mental breakdown from a 6.5% decrease? 

I'm not saying this is what happened to me or didn't happen to me. I think that's where the confusion is with my most recent posts. 

I am having repetitive intrusive thoughts that are not related to me, specifically. So if someone could pretend I am a reporter, and asking those two questions, it would help me and my little family so so so much. 

Thank you.  

[MamaFlower]

My brain is in panic mode so I apologize for not being clear. 

 

It could be hormones. 

It could be the sh*tty paxil that I went up on before finding this site. 

It could be PTSD. 

 

BUT, my brain will NOT stop believing that it is severe withdrawal from going down 6.5% in February. So that is why I am asking you those questions and would be so grateful if you answered. Thank you times a million. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi MamaFlower-- There are a lot of intertwined aspects involved in  tapering off of these drugs and the more specific information we have the better we can zero in on the problem with our recommendations.  Chessie is following our procedure for gathering information before we make recommendations.  When you get a chance please post the answers so we can better help you.  For now I will try to address your two pressing questions so you'll have something to work with for your CBT.

 

1) Has anyone followed your suggested 10% program, gone down their initial 1mg of Paxil over 2 months and not had any stability in the next 4 month period, and in fact, gotten much much worse? 

 

Yes, that can and does happen.  these drugs are very unpredictable in how they will react to a taper.  Especially paxil, it has a reputation for being one of the hardest to get off of and can be very hard to manipulate below 10mgai (milligrams active ingredient).  It is not unknown for a small decrease in dose to take much longer than four months to stabilize.  It's also quite possible to make several decreases  and have no problems at all and then the next drop cause real trouble.  Eventually the dose changes will stabilize along with the symptoms

 

2) Have you seen anyone follow your 10% program, go down their initial 2 drops, and never stabilize? "

No, it can take a frustratingly long time to happen but dose changes will stabilize.

 

Something to keep in mind is that the 10% every four weeks protocol is just a starting point and every individual taper needs to be fine tuned to that individuals reactions.  Some people have no problems with doing 10% while others struggle with 2.5%.

 

You are correct in thinking that your drop was not 10%.  According to the math it was 6%.

 

There are several good posts pinned at the top of the Symptoms and Selfcare forum.  They deal with the length of time things take while experiencing ADWD, and another on how to identify and deal with Emotional Spirals which are a major contributor to secondary anxiety for people in ADWD.  The Emotional Spiral article might be a good one to discuss with your CBT councilor. 

 

Brassmonkey

[MamaFlower]

Brassmonkey, thank you for your answers. 

 

"It is not unknown for a small decrease in dose to take much longer than four months to stabilize."

 

In your experience, and from the examples you are referencing in your answer, how long should a decrease of 6% take to stabilize? It has been 4 months of hell and I cannot handle this much longer. 

 

Also, "It is not unknown for a small decrease in dose to take much longer than four months to stabilize," and you've seen people have complete nervous breakdowns and emotional spirals from less than 10% decrease, why do you recommend 10% and not 2.5??? 

 

 

 

[MamaFlower]

I just read those articles and am grateful for the information. 

 

I suppose I am still left confused. I went down 6.5% and had a COMPLETE mental breakdown and MASSIVE withdrawal. 

 

If I can please urge you to reconsider the 10% rule, I urge you to do so. 4 months after my initial taper of 6.5% and I'm getting so much worse. My children have lost their mama. 

 

If you have seen this with many others, as you've stated, please please please consider having people start at 2.5% to avoid families and mothers being shattered. 

 

I don't know where to even go from here. 4 months and things getting worse and being told this is normal and seen often. My goodness, this is a lot to process. 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Firstly, my apologies for my maths error.  For some reason I thought you had reduced by more.  Thanks bubbles and Brass for correcting it.

 

3 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

why do you recommend 10% and not 2.5??? 

 

From Why taper by 10% of my dosage? topic:

 

On 8/6/2011 at 6:43 AM, Altostrata said:

 

The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs. While it is not a guarantee you will have trouble-free withdrawal, we believe this conservative tapering method will cause harm to the fewest number of people.

 

 

The 10% taper of current dose with 4 week hold is general protocol.  We do have some members here who are only able to make small reductions, 5% or less.  This is why it is important for members to keep notes on paper of their symptoms so that they can see how they are reacting to a reduction and adjust their reductions and holds as needed for their own situation.  If we experience withdrawal symptoms we can either hold at that dose and use Non-drug techniques to get through the discomfort or make a very small updose.

 

Below is an example of how to record the information:

 

Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

A symptom pattern that occurs regularly over several days could mean the symptoms are from withdrawal, other adverse effects of drugs, or something else you do on a daily schedule.

 

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every individual day over several days is:

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in morning
- Time and description of any symptoms in the morning
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in afternoon
- Time and description of any symptoms in the afternoon
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in evening
- Time and description of any symptoms in the evening
 
- Time and dosage for drugs taken in middle of the night
- Time and description of any symptoms in the middle of the night (such as waking)
 
And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, such as:
 
6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache

 

An appointments diary is perfect for this and can be bought at stationery stores. 

They have a page for each day with times for appointments which can be filled in with doses, symptoms etc as shown by Alto.

[MamaFlower]

Thank you.

 

I read everything and have taken it all in. 

 

I am still adamant that you reconsider the 10% rule. I went down 6.5% and have not been able to function since - which, according to brassmonkey, is common and has been recorded and seen. 

 

My symptoms are nonstop and relentless. Insomnia with constant nocturnal panic attacks, night terrors, head swooshing, panic attacks all day everyday, depersonalization, unfamiliar with surroundings, muscle twitching, terror that does not stop, irrational thoughts, rumination that will not stop... 

 

I am  a shell of a human. I can barely leave my house at all. 

 

All because I went down 6.5% in February. We are in JUNE and my symptoms (mostly the severe anxiety) are getting WORSE. 

 

Can you please help me find one other person who this happened to on here so that I don't feel so alone. I cannot do this alone. 

[MamaFlower]

PLEASE ... I cannot find a single other person who went down 6.5% and 4 months later has had no relief and is getting worse. I cannot feel this alone. PLEASE.

[Altostrata]

13 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

Have you, in your experience, ever seen someone have a complete mental breakdown from a 6.5% decrease? 

 

13 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

BUT, my brain will NOT stop believing that it is severe withdrawal from going down 6.5% in February. So that is why I am asking you those questions and would be so grateful if you answered. Thank you times a million. 

 

MamaFlower, you seem to hold some impenetrable beliefs. One is that the February decrease has to be the cause of your continuing symptoms. As you say, "my brain will NOT stop believing". If you persist in holding this belief despite all incoming information, there's no point in your asking us to convince you otherwise.

 

We have seen severe withdrawal reactions, but never a "complete mental breakdown" because that phrase doesn't mean anything -- though you appear to be attached to it.

 

Even you are aware that the February decrease might not have caused your symptoms, as you posted in April:

 

On 4/19/2018 at 2:36 PM, MamaFlower said:

Fast forward to this year. After being on 8mg for years, I decided I wanted to try coming off because I was feeling chubby (if I'm being honest). Let me also state that this last year has been, without a doubt the most stressful time of my entire life. We moved, started new jobs, I was sexually harassed at work, I ended up working 3 jobs, nonstop SNS in overdrive. I say this, because I'm honestly not sure if what I am experiencing is Paxil related so I want to give the full details and story here. 

 

On February 3rd 2018 I took my liquid Paxil dose from 8mg - 7.5mg. Again, I had never googled this, I just kind of made it up in my head. I didn't know there was anything to even google because other than my OBGYN saying briefly to go down slow, I didn't even know withdrawal was a thing. 

 

Everything was great. ZERO side effects. However, in my life, everything fell apart. My 8 year old daughter get very, very ill, I had to quit one of my jobs due to extreme stress and abuse from a man, and money troubles were up. I was truly in a state of full blown stress - even more hormones were a mess. 

 

But still, I was going going going because I just don't know when to quit I suppose. Then, on March 5th, I went to bed and couldn't sleep. Each time I would lay down, I'd get a HUGE surge of adrenaline through my entire body. I'd drift to sleep but be woken by these intense jolts that would leave me throwing up.

 

You have a history of going on and off psychiatric drugs, your nervous system was already sensitized to dosage decreases, and in February you made a small decrease in the midst of a series of family crises.

 

Updosing to 14mg Paxil relieved the symptoms. Did the family crises stop?

 

In the meantime, it seems you're having a rough time with perimenopause. In this stage of life, many women who have never been on drugs get sleep disruption and emotional volatility. Preferring to fixate on the February decrease, you failed to respond to my questions below:

 

14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What is your estrogen status? If it's at a menopausal level, your sleep might be improved a little with an estrogen patch, prescribed at my request by my doctor. I used a microdose Menostar 14mcg patch, which can be expensive; to save money, some women will cut a normal dose patch in half for a microdose. The microdose does not have to be opposed by progesterone; you'll have to discuss this with your doctor.

 

Your symptom pattern will also help determine whether it's the 14mg Paxil that's causing problems. At the beginning of this topic, we had an exchange about whether it might be too much. You take it at 10 p.m., does it make you sleepy? Is there any identifiable symptom pattern that occurs after 10 p.m.?

 

Our tapering guidelines are very, very conservative. We clearly state that tolerance to dosage reduction is individual and some people may find they need to taper by smaller amounts. We cannot predict who those people will be, each person has to take responsibility for their own taper.

 

Please stop blaming past events and other people and focus on  managing your current symptoms. There may be things you can do to improve your sleep.

[Centime]

Hello MamaFlower,

 

I went through something similar some years ago when I tried to discontinue Paxil too fast. I was ok until I got below 10 mg., then the whole situation changed. I went into full withdrawal. It was terrible, including insomnia, and I went back on the drug. Now I’m tapering off it again, with the knowledge and help of this web site. It seems to be true for a lot of people that the last 5–10 mgs. are the hardest. For me, taping by what seems a crazily tiny amount seems to work. I just dropped from 50 mg.s to 47.5, and it’s been three weeks and I’m still getting WD symptoms, so even that is probably too fast. But the weird thing is, I’m sleeping pretty well for the first time ever! That’s a big surprise. Don’t despair. I have PTSD too (from childhood abuse) and find that anxiety is the main cause for my insomnia. I can’t answer your questions with any kind of authority, but the consensus seems to be that if you go slowly enough, there’s hope. 

 

I also believe that that some people, maybe including me, simply need to take the drugs. If that turns out to be true for me, I’ll take them, but only after I’m certain that they’re not causing the problems.

 

Some things I’ve  found helpful:

 

Meditation, even for just 20 minutes a day. Any kind—mindfulness is simple to learn and will calm your mind.

 

Epsom salts. They contain magnesium, “nature’s tranquillizer.” Add two full cups to a hot bath and soak. I also take magnesium supplements, which I learned about here.

 

But anxiety seems like the main cause of my insomnia, and it sounds like that might be true for you, too.

 

I wish you all the best. You’re not alone. Centime

 

PS I forgot Melatonin, which helps regulate your daily rhythms.

[ChessieCat]

If trying anything for the first time start with a small amount to test to see how you react.

 

Also, only make one change at a time:  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

 

[Songbird]

Hello Mamaflower, I'm sorry you're having such a rough time.  Your story reminds me somewhat of my own experience of severe withdrawal back in 2008.  I had been following the 10% taper of my paroxetine, and I had only mild withdrawal symptoms until I dropped from 5mg to 4.5mg.  Three weeks later, all hell broke loose (severe insomnia, severe anxiety, vomiting).  I was sort of coping, but a week later after a very stressful week at work, it all turned into a total nightmare.  I didn't sleep at all for a week, couldn't eat, couldn't keep anything down - even water came back up.  My life felt like a 24/7 panic attack.  I couldn't keep still for more than ten seconds and spent the days and nights pacing up and down until my feet ached and I had to wear neoprene beach slippers because I couldn't wear normal shoes.  I can't talk about it too much because the memories are still somewhat distressing even ten years later.

 

What helped me the most to get out of this horrific state was doing relaxation exercises three times per day.  I did David Swenson's "Just Relax" yoga DVD.  I also used a sleep CD and was able to sleep through the night by replaying the CD each time I woke.  I bought a book by Dr. Claire Weekes and listened to her recordings.  I improved to some degree but after a couple of months did not feel like I was really getting better, so I increased my dose and managed to stabilise after about another three months.  I then restarted my taper using much smaller drops.

 

I have two children and also worried about the effect my illness was having on them.  My younger daughter had just started school and I remember going into her classroom and having to leave quickly because the smell of other mothers' perfume was overwhelming.  My kids are teenagers now and they grew up fine and I don't think they even remember my illness from that time.

 

I think you need to keep in mind that the 10% taper is a rough guideline.  There is no way we can write a perfect tapering plan for everyone, because individual responses vary so much.  There is no "one size fits all".  Everyone is different, and even different dose ranges can be harder or easier for different people.  I've seen some people do a successful 10% taper and carry on happily without meds.  (Yes, I am envious).  I've seen other people doing 2.5% drops who struggle for a few months after every drop.  I have found it is best to not even think about a total time frame, as this has always led to disappointment for me.  

 

I've found it really helps to have a tool kit of non-med coping techniques.  Relaxation exercises, breathing exercises, sleep CDs, mindfulness techniques, Claire Weekes' techniques, positive affirmations, journaling, gentle exercise, and so on.  I've found mindfulness is very effective for ruminating thoughts.  I also recommend avoiding all alcohol, caffeine, dramatic/suspenseful TV programs/movies/books (even the news).   The goal is to calm the nervous system.

 

You might find these topics helpful:

The Dr. Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

Tips to help sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Alto has suggested that the increase to 14mg dose might have been too much for your sensitive system to handle.  She has many years of experience helping people on this site.  If you follow her suggestions, she may be able to figure out what's happening with you, and help you with a plan to move forward.

 

[MamaFlower]

Thank you for your patience with me. 

 

I have no idea what happened to me in March, and I may never know the WHY. I am still struggling. 

 

But I won't give up.

 

I think finding a good therapist will help. For today, that is my prayer. I tried one therapist who specialized in OCD who made everything worse. I thought seeing someone who treats OCD would help because the intrusive thoughts and images are so hard for me. She told me that in order to get better, I had to watch horror movies all day, and that when the panic came, I had to repeat, "Yes, maybe I am insane forever. I think I am completely insane." I wasn't allowed to use any affirmations or self soothe in any way. No baths, no weighted blankets.

 

Truly, I think that method hurt me more than anything. I'm still recovering from that method because it left me completely confused. I'm also confused how the OCD foundation endorses this ERP as a treatment. I'm not sure how on Earth it could really help anyone who is suffering with terror. 

 

My most sincere wish is that one day I will be able to handle the terror of what I am going through with the "float" method. That one say my nervous system might be a little bit healed and not so raw and terrified. I'll keep trying yoga. I'll keep eating warm broths and teas. I'll keep searching for a helpful therapist. 

 

That's truly all I want. 

 

I think my nervous system is completely shot. Like beyond shot. Just RAW to the bone. I think it was a combination of things, maybe including the .5 decrease of paxil, maybe not. Either way, as terrifying as it is, and as alone as I feel especially when I wake up screaming for help after a nightmare, I have to believe I'll be OK someday. I have to believe that even if I do nothing about the paxil and stay on the 14mg, someday I will be OK and able to try decreasing again. 

 

Goodness, I hope someday I can believe that. 

 

Please if you have any suggestions for what type of therapist I should look for, it would mean a lot to me. Thank you, 

Michelle

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by MamaFlower
clarification

[Songbird]

11 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

I have no idea what happened to me in March, and I may never know the WHY.

 

It might help to remember that what happens in our nervous systems is a combination of everything that's going on at the time.  You may not be able to pinpoint a single reason - it could be from a mixture of AD withdrawal, plus life stressors.

 

11 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

I think finding a good therapist will help. For today, that is my prayer. I tried one therapist who specialized in OCD who made everything worse. I thought seeing someone who treats OCD would help because the intrusive thoughts and images are so hard for me. She told me that in order to get better, I had to watch horror movies all day, and that when the panic came, I had to repeat, "Yes, maybe I am insane forever. I think I am completely insane." I wasn't allowed to use any affirmations or self soothe in any way.

 

I have no experience with OCD, but that therapy sounds insane to me! 

 

You might want to look into other forms of therapy (preferably gentler ones).  For example: CBT, ACT, mindfulness.  Also relaxation exercises of various kinds could be well worth exploring (gentle yoga, progressive muscle relaxation, etc.).  There are also therapies that work through the body, such as EFT and EMDR.  I have no experience with those - you'll need to do your own research.  Here are some links to get you started:

 

(CBT) for anxiety, depression and withdrawal symptoms

mindfulness and acceptance

guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

EFT emotional freedom techniquescognitive behavior therapy

EMDR has anyone tried this eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy

 

 

[Wwaterboy]

Mama, this is what is happening to me right now. It's horrible. I have no idea how I'm going to proceed. I just reinstated Paxil at literally 0.5 mg. I can't sleep at all. You're right, it feels like my nervous system is completely shot.

[ChessieCat]

 

12 minutes ago, Wwaterboy said:

Mama, this is what is happening to me right now. ..... I just reinstated Paxil at literally 0.5 mg.

 

Wwaterboy, your situation is completely different to MamaFlower's.  You reinstated 2.5mg then went up to 5mg and then reduced to 0.5mg.  You have also been drinking alcohol.

[Wwaterboy]

I agree, Chessie. However, I am having the same sleep issue.

[Wwaterboy]

And my heart truly goes out to you, Mama. I've done everything wrong. I am having the same sleep issue.

[MamaFlower]

I close my eyes to sleep and as soon as I drift off, I am jolted awake by a rush/surge of panic attack followed by my legs kicking all over the place and me loudly moaning/groaning myself awake or sometimes screaming for help. This happens literally every 10-20 minutes all night long. 

 

My withdrawal symptoms are severe and debilitating and unrelenting. All from going from 8-7.5mg. 

 

My husband and therapists beg me to just accept that this is all PTSD and not paxil withdrawal, but I will never ever be sure. None of the mods on here are available for private meetings/appointments to give their full diagnosis/opinion and who else could I possibly turn to? That is where I just wish I could have one of you help me out. 

 

As I said my doctors and therapists all say that paxil withdrawal IS real and they HAVE seen it, but that it wouldn't happen this severe from such a tiny dose change. 

 

I wasn't going to share this, but I watched someone I love very much die from drug withdrawal, and so that is why I am so terrified of this being due to withdrawal. That is why I cannot read books or do yoga and accept. I have PTSD directly related to this, and so my body/brain are hijacked. 

 

From the very first day I came on this forum I was praying for reassurance that what I was going through most likely was NOT withdrawal. I was praying with everything in my heart and soul that the mods would say they had never seen such a severe and lasting reaction to such a tiny decrease. Instead I got the opposite and I don't know if I will ever be able to accept that based on what I lived through and witnessed. 

 

I never intended to be rude/argumentative or mean. I came here as a woman who was very, very, very terrified that she was facing her absolute worst fear in life and wanted someone to reach out and comfort her and show empathy and love and validation that while we can never be certain, this was MOST LIKELY not from paxil withdrawal. 

 

Every time I come on here, that is what I am praying to hear. With my entire heart and soul. 

 

It has now been 5 months and I got zero sleep last night, am in a state of 24/7 panic attack and can barely keep food down. I feel like I've lost everything I love, including myself. I have no signs of stabilization, no signs of relief, no signs of peace. I was on paxil for 20 years, and was even told by someone here, privately, that because of that, it will take another 10 - 20 years for me to stabilize from the .5mg decrease. That felt like a death sentence. I cannot shake all of this. 

 

It's hard to come here and ask for comfort because I know you are subjective in your hate for these drugs. I assure you, nobody hates them more than I do. I promise you. But subjective, empathetic support is important and needed, too. 

 

I have never had a sip of alcohol, or even coffee. I barely take tylenol because of what I lived through and witnessed. 

 

If there is anyone who would like to comfort or reassure me that while it might be possible, it's most likely NOT AD withdrawal that I am going through, it would mean the world to me.  Thank you. 

 

 

 

 

[MamaFlower]

Also, Song bird, thank you for your thoughtful reply and many suggestions. I will look into them all. Thank you so much! 

[Songbird]

14 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

I close my eyes to sleep and as soon as I drift off, I am jolted awake by a rush/surge of panic attack followed by my legs kicking all over the place and me loudly moaning/groaning myself awake or sometimes screaming for help. This happens literally every 10-20 minutes all night long

 

When I was in severe withdrawal, I managed to get a reasonable amount of sleep by using a sleep CD.  It helped me get to sleep, but I would wake up each time the recording finished, so I would play it again, and repeat through the night.  The one I used was "Achieving Perfect Sleep" by  Dr. Hilary Jones, but there are plenty of other choices. There are probably lots on YouTube you could try and see if any are helpful for you.

 

14 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

My husband and therapists beg me to just accept that this is all PTSD and not paxil withdrawal, but I will never ever be sure. None of the mods on here are available for private meetings/appointments to give their full diagnosis/opinion and who else could I possibly turn to? That is where I just wish I could have one of you help me out. 

 

We are not medical professionals - we don't do appointments and diagnoses.  We do our best to help members on their introduction topics - we keep it here so all your information is in one place.  We don't know how much of your situation is from paxil withdrawal and how much is from other factors.  As I said, it is very likely a mixture of everything that's been happening that has an effect on the nervous system.  I would suggest trying to let go of needing to know and focus more on non-med self-care techniques that are likely to help in any case.  Focussing on self-help techniques can be very empowering -  it feels like you're really taking positive action to help yourself.

 

14 hours ago, MamaFlower said:

I was on paxil for 20 years, and was even told by someone here, privately, that because of that, it will take another 10 - 20 years for me to stabilize from the .5mg decrease.

 

That isn't a particularly helpful comment.  Perhaps they have misunderstood what stabilizing means.  Stabilizing doesn't mean you get a perfect life, it just means severe symptoms settle down, so you are not incapacitated by them.  Some symptoms may go away completely, others may ease off to a low level that is tolerable.  See: stabilizing what does that mean

 

At this stage I wouldn't even be thinking about any timeframes.  Just take things one day at a time, or one hour, or one minute if you need to.  Thinking ahead into the future creates a lot of worry that doesn't help and just makes things worse.  Focus instead on what you can do to help yourself - do some relaxation exercises, go for a walk, have a bath, etc.

 

What would be helpful for us is if you could keep a daily journal noting times you take meds (or supplements) and times and severity of symptoms.  Here's an example (note this is a made up example):

 

23 June

7 a.m. woke up, anxiety 3/10

8 a.m. ate breakfast, took 20mg Prozac tablet

10 a.m. anxiety 7/10, nausea 3/10

12 p.m. ate lunch, anxiety 5/10, nausea 1/10

2 p.m. anxiety 4/10, nausea 2/10

6 p.m. ate dinner, took magnesium tablet 200mg, anxiety 2/10, no nausea

8 p.m. anxiety 1/10

11 p.m. went to bed, anxiety 2/10, difficulty falling asleep for 2 hours

4 a.m. woke up, no anxiety, went back to sleep for 3 hours

 

If you could post this information here each day we can look for patterns, which may enable us to provide more useful suggestions.

[MamaFlower]

Thank you. 

 

 

[MamaFlower]

I have a few questions:

 

Is it the belief of the mods on this forum that SSRI withdrawal causes brain/CNS damage that is permanent? 

Is it the belief of the mods on this forum that taking SSRIs for 20+ years causes brain/CNS damage that is permanent? 

I'm confused because you often say "there is no cure" and "humpty dumpty" but then you say that with time people heal. 

So, "no cure" to me says I have a terminal condition where I will have adrenaline surges and intrusive images/thoughts nonstop for the rest of my life from a .5 decrease of paxil. That thought causes me an enormous amount of terror and grief. Having someone tell you that your suffering will never end is unbearable. 

 

 

[dj2010]

19 minutes ago, MamaFlower said:

I have a few questions:

 

Is it the belief of the mods on this forum that SSRI withdrawal causes brain/CNS damage that is permanent? 

Is it the belief of the mods on this forum that taking SSRIs for 20+ years causes brain/CNS damage that is permanent? 

I'm confused because you often say "there is no cure" and "humpty dumpty" but then you say that with time people heal. 

So, "no cure" to me says I have a terminal condition where I will have adrenaline surges and intrusive images/thoughts nonstop for the rest of my life from a .5 decrease of paxil. That thought causes me an enormous amount of terror and grief. Having someone tell you that your suffering will never end is unbearable. 

 

 

 

I think what is meant by there is no cure is like there is no medicine or treatment that will fix withdrawal, but with time the brain heals naturally (called neuroplasticity I believe)

 

I know its not permanent because of healing that has taken place during the last year for me and I was on multiple drugs for 15 years 

[MamaFlower]

DJ2010

that is the best reply I have gotten since on this forum. Thank you. 

 

I have one more question for the mods. 

 

Is it the belief of the mods that withdrawal can cause permanent schizophrenia? 

 

Due to a trauma in my life as a child, I have a severe fear of schizophrenia and every single thing I do creates a fear that this is what the outcome will be. This is why I was put on paxil to begin with because I could no longer eat for fear that food would make me have a panic attack that would lead to schizophrenia.

 

As I continue with therapy, I am getting to the heart of my withdrawal fears and distorted thinking. I am asking these questions to help my cognitive distortions. 

 

Thank you. 

[dj2010]

13 minutes ago, MamaFlower said:

DJ2010

that is the best reply I have gotten since on this forum. Thank you. 

 

I have one more question for the mods. 

 

Is it the belief of the mods that withdrawal can cause permanent schizophrenia? 

 

Due to a trauma in my life as a child, I have a severe fear of schizophrenia and every single thing I do creates a fear that this is what the outcome will be. This is why I was put on paxil to begin with because I could no longer eat for fear that food would make me have a panic attack that would lead to schizophrenia.

 

As I continue with therapy, I am getting to the heart of my withdrawal fears and distorted thinking. I am asking these questions to help my cognitive distortions. 

 

Thank you. 

 

sorry not a mod but from looking at your thread you are around 36 years of age and female, schizophrenia occurs mostly in males and at a younger age than you, withdrawal does not cause schizophrenia either do panic attacks, you are pretty safe from developing this and no need to worry

[MamaFlower]

Again, DJ2010, THANK YOU. 

 

My goodness. Thank you. 

[jonnypeters1234567]

withdrawal can causes psychosis but it lessens with time