bubbles

[bubbles]

Thanks Carmie. It's good to have a long hold, sometimes, I think. Hope you're doing well.

[Carmie]

Thanks

1 minute ago, bubbles said:

Thanks Carmie. It's good to have a long hold, sometimes, I think. Hope you're doing well.

 

 

Thanks Bubbles, not too bad at the moment with withdrawals.

 

Im really sick though as I have a chronic illness but soooo glad withdrawals have subsided for a bit. 

 

The last  two days my tapering wasn’t so great because I found out the new syringes I was using weren’t the same as the old ones. The measurements were out quite a bit. It was only two days though so I’m sure I’ll get back on track soon.

 

Cant believe how different syringes are. It’s the same with cylinders. In a few months I will do microtapering n I bought two different cylinders, they were soooooo different, I threw one out. 

 

I really want to warn everyone on here to make sure when you change your normal measuring devices to check the differences.

 

Yep, I agree with you, definitely good to hold for a while. I need a few months now so I can spend more time with friends, go on a holiday, organise things etc etc. All those things that you can’t do when you’re in a wave.

 

💚💚💚

[bubbles]

Update, I've decided to find an alternative to my issue in 18 months, so I don't have a deadline any more. I'm going to keep reducing slowly.

 

I'm actually quite upset to discover that I might have 3.5 years still to go, but it is what it is.

Onward and upward. Or onward and downward.

[Rosetta]

I'm glad to hear that, Bubbles.  Yes, onward we go.  Peace, Rosetta

[bubbles]

Thanks @Rosetta

[bubbles]

I've had a bit of a sook. (Australians will know what I'm talking about.) My sook was being upset about the length of time the rest of this taper will take.

 

I'm okay. I've pulled on my big girl pants and am getting on with things.

 

All good. Back to the regularly scheduled taper. Or irregularly scheduled taper. Whatever.

[mammaP]

Hi Bubbles, glad you got your big girl pants on, I had to get mone out again when I worked out that my taper will take 14 years the rate I am going .  I had a sook too. 

Love the saying onwards and downwards!   When I complained about the length of time it would take to taper, I think it was BTDT on another forum said that if I have to take it for life because withdrawal means I can't quit,  it doesn't really make any difference and one day will be off them all. That was 6 years ago and here I am still tapering. I get fed up sometimes but as you said, it is what it is.  I'm glad you are doing ok.  

[Gridley]

Bubbles,  I've got many years to go too.  I just take it one day at a time.  As mammaP said, one day we'll be off of all of them.

[bubbles]

Thanks @Gridley and @mammaP

 

Yes, it is what it is. Crawling down is better than being on a full dose and if getting off fast is impossible and the only other alternative is a full dose, well, crawling down is better. Frankly, even if I couldn't get any lower than this 9mg, other than being a very expensive dose to be on, it's better than being on 100mg!

[Carmie]

19 hours ago, bubbles said:

I've had a bit of a sook. (Australians will know what I'm talking about.) My sook was being upset about the length of time the rest of this taper will take.

 

I'm okay. I've pulled on my big girl pants and am getting on with things.

 

All good. Back to the regularly scheduled taper. Or irregularly scheduled taper. Whatever.

 

Hey Bubbles, 

 

Or is that sook?😂😜. 

 

Yep, no fun thinking about how long this process will take. The way I’m going with the teeny tiny tapering I do, and the holds for a bit of sanity in between it’s going to take me forever. 

 

If it takes ten years, it takes ten years. At least I’m slowly moving forward.

 

It is just not worth going too quickly, I end up feeling like I don’t want to live. I get bad akathisia and also feel like I’m being electrocuted if I go down too quickly. Definitely not worth it. 

 

Sending hugs🤗🤗

[bubbles]

Thanks Carmie. I knew Aussies would understand a sook.

[bubbles]

I have rearranged my supplies and I should now be able to go down in increments as fine as 0.1mg. That means that I can, if I want, do a bit of a microtaper. I have no reason to think that 10% is too much to drop in one go, but now that I have the ability to make a finer taper I wonder if I should take advantage of it.

 

I've been on 9mg for 7 weeks today. It turned out that I did a 20% drop. Meh. Anyway, it is what it is and I have held for as long as I would have, had I done it in two drops (well, I will have). My mood is very good, I've felt stable for several weeks, and I will have reduced responsibilities for a month or so starting next week. The time is right to drop. I don't want to prolong this any longer than necessary, so no more long holds without reason. 

 

A 10% taper per drop looks like this over the next 12 drops:      8.1      7.3      6.6      5.9      5.3      4.8      4.3      3.9      3.5      3.1      2.8     2.5     (I have rounded to the nearest 0.1mg).

 

I could do those drops in one go, or I could split them over the month, or even just in two steps a week apart and have 3 weeks at the fully lowered dose. Or, I guess a 5ish% taper every two weeks to get a gentler slope to the same point in 12 months.

 

Or, it has been suggested that maybe I could do 0.5mg drops for a while, which would be less than 10% until I get down to 5mg. I could do this:  8.5   8  7.5  7  6.5  6  5.5  5 at shorter intervals to get to the same point at six months. Each drop is less than 10% until the last one which is 10%. That suggestion was made by someone who wondered if 10% would be too big a drop, now that I'm at the pointy end of the taper.
 

My musings bring me to wonder if time spent at the reduced rate is as important as the size of the drop... Is it good for the brain to figure out what it needs and do it for a few weeks before starting again? As long as the drop is sufficiently small that it can do that, of course. Or is a gentler slope better? Why is there no research to guide us?

 

Or, why am I reinventing the wheel? I should just do 10%.

[bubbles]

8.1mg tomorrow. I decided.  

[bubbles]

I have had some odd neurological symptoms recently, associated with a drop. They have mostly passed and actually I'd forgotten until I had another one (forgotten so much that I don't think I even mentioned them in my thread, which I will update). I'm trying to decide if they are "zaps" or "brain shivers" or what they really are.

 

It's a sensation that my brain is swelling inside my head, then it peaks and subsides. Imagine watching a wave build and break against the shore. It is not painful but very disconcerting.

I thought I'd had zaps in the past (years ago thankfully), but I think I've misclassified them. On that occasion  - years ago - it was like my brain was lagging behind after I turned my head. I don't think there was the electric shock sensation. It was actually quite terrifying and I immediately reinstated. The symptoms passed quickly then, so it was definitely withdrawal.

 

Any idea what to call those symptoms? (I tried to explain them to someone the other day and realized that I don't have the right vocabulary to discuss them.)

 

Finally, I keep reading that these sort of symptoms are harmless, but - other than to determine their existence - has any researcher ever actually investigated them?

[ChessieCat]

This helped me to understand what is happening: best-description-of-healing-process

 

See Occiptial Lobe (vision) and Vestibular System (balance)

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by ChessieCat

[bubbles]

I will drop today, or tomorrow, or the next day. It needs to be this week because I can now afford to be under the weather for a week or so. If I leave it too long that window of opportunity will have passed. I hope not to be too under the weather though.

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by ChessieCat
deleted duplicate info moved from another topic

[bubbles]

Occiputal Lobe and Vestibular System do explain the weird symptom I had years ago, I think. The brain following along after the head turns.

 

So, the gist of the article is: these weird symptoms are a sign of the brain healing from the insult of the drug/drug being withdrawn? It sounds like an educated hypothesis, but I guess that's all we've got.

 

I'm not sure I'm seeing what might cause the brain swelling feeling, though.

[ChessieCat]

5 minutes ago, bubbles said:

I'm not sure I'm seeing what might cause the brain swelling feeling

 

Here is another topic:  head-pressure-and-burning-brain

 

[bubbles]

Yes, maybe that's more like it. Mine subside though.

 

Thanks ChessieCat

[bubbles]

Ok, update. I have dropped to 8.1mg (on Monday). It is now Friday. I feel fine today - a bit of a headache, but that's pretty normal.

 

I was a bit funny on Wednesday - a couple of very minor "shocks" when I heard a loud(er) noise. Thursday, I had to leave work a little early because of, err, a gastrointestinal upset. Thursday evening (last night) I went to my weekly pillbox and realised that Thursday's pills were absent.

 

I have no idea what I did. I may have doubled up, somehow, on Wednesday (possibly accounting for the gastro upset?) Or I may have absent-mindedly taken the pills on Thursday morning with my thyroid meds. So, I didn't take anything last night. Today I will take my pills earlier in the day and tomorrow go back to normal. I usually try to be exceptionally good about taking them on time (ish) before and after a drop so I'm irritated with myself.

 

I feel fine.

 

[bubbles]

It's too soon to declare myself in the clear, but all the signs are pointing toward this drop being okay, with very minor symptoms only. If I were going to be seriously distressed by this drop I'd have expected to be feeling poorly by now. If anything, I have that familiar feeling that I'm on "too much". I still find myself unable to explain why I feel this way!

 

Symptoms I've had this week: brain shocks with loud noises (one day only, second day of the drop, only a few, passed now); gastrointestinal upset (mostly passed - could be unrelated, there's a lot of gastro around now where I live; headaches (I always have headaches, but oddly they were mostly absent for the first two days of this drop!!!).

 

[Carmie]

2 hours ago, bubbles said:

It's too soon to declare myself in the clear, but all the signs are pointing toward this drop being okay, with very minor symptoms only. If I were going to be seriously distressed by this drop I'd have expected to be feeling poorly by now. If anything, I have that familiar feeling that I'm on "too much". I still find myself unable to explain why I feel this way!

 

Symptoms I've had this week: brain shocks with loud noises (one day only, second day of the drop, only a few, passed now); gastrointestinal upset (mostly passed - could be unrelated, there's a lot of gastro around now where I live; headaches (I always have headaches, but oddly they were mostly absent for the first two days of this drop!!!).

 

 

Hi Bubbles, 

 

Glad to hear that so far your last drop is going fine and you haven’t had too many extra symptoms. There’s no use worrying about if you will eventually get more symptoms as you can only live in this moment. Make the most of the moment your in and enjoy the reprieve. That’s what I’ve learnt. 

 

This process of tapering is scary and we can really scare ourselves with the “what if’s?” Im learning the only way to get through the process is to take each moment as it comes and keep remembering the windows we have had. They do eventually return again. 

 

All the best with your tapering Bubbles💚

[bubbles]

I've taken 9 doses since my drop. I'm doing well. I had those few wobbles a couple of days after the drop but they were barely noticeable. I was "looking" for them - if not I'd probably have just thought I was a bit tired that day.

 

The half lives of the sertraline should have well and truly worked themselves out, but there is an active metabolite which probably still has a few days to go.

[bubbles]

Still going very well.

 

I have been quite shaken, however, to hear of people who had been doing very well with their slow tapers - even getting off - and crashing. Crashing, it seems, just as badly as I did when I went off Lexapro. I'm upset for them. I'm also becoming a bit worried.

[peng]

Bubbles, saw your bit about gastric probs.

I had that for decades and took PPIs which are not too good either.

For a considerable while now, I have been taking a probiotic in a capsule each day and mostly, stomach probs are absent!

 

PS Dont get over confident and taper too quickly.  Listen closely to your body and mind.

 

Best wishes

peng.

[bubbles]

Thanks Peng. It has settled down a bit. I know that if I cut my carbs a bit, the tum will settle down a bit. A probiotic isn't a bad idea, though, I had antibiotics a few months ago.

 

No, not overconfident. A bit nervous, in face. I've made myself nervous by reading some other threads.

 

I am actually thinking about holding here for a bit. Or maybe dropping the 0.1 at the four week mark to put me on only one capsule for a bit, and then holding that.

 

I won't make any decisions for a bit. I have go so far. Now is not the time to shoot myself in the foot, as it were.

[bubbles]

Update. Still okay. Trying to lose a bit of weight. Still having slightly dizzy spells. I'm going to hold here for a while, or maybe I'll drop just the 0.1mg next time (to get to 8mg).

[bubbles]

The dizziness is much improved today.

 

I have amused myself trying to find some local support that will not push drugs at me - for future use, not now. No luck so far.

[Rosetta]

Glad you are feeling a bit better.  Local support would be nice.  Have a good day, R

[bubbles]

I haven't been feeling well, though you could easily attribute that to other things.

 

The dizziness has passed, thankfully. It was a bit worrying.

 

I have a bit of a sore throat and swollen glands, and the headache is worse again. My husband thought I had a low grade fever but I did take my temperature and it was fine. High fine, for me, probably, but fine. It is probably allergies, I've decided, but it might still be a cold brewing.

 

Yesterday I was also a bit anxious. And tired, so tired. I have observed a pattern where, in the past, I've thought "ok, I can't do this, it was a mistake, I have to go back up" and generally the window opens the next day or the day after. Yesterday I gave myself 48 hours before I made a decision. I put it into my calendar so it wasn't something I had to think about. Last night I slept poorly. I went to sleep easily enough but then woke in the wee hours and was awake for several hours. I read on my phone for a few minutes and listened to my audiobook and eventually drifted back to sleep. Today I'm tired, but no more than yesterday. My anxiety seems to have peaked and receded.

 

I don't feel *great*, but with the anxiety subsiding I can continue. Today I am going to take something for the headache - I'm not going to try to push through when my mood is iffy. I have to go to work, which is good for me - it is distracting and I like my colleagues. It isn't likely to be an onerous day.

 

So I think I'm okay. I will be able to push through, but it is time for a hold, or a very small drop next, or both.

[bubbles]

Another bad night's sleep but my mood is okay. I am home today so I might be able to lie down for an hour at lunchtime.

[bubbles]

On 6/25/2018 at 11:04 PM, Rosetta said:

Glad you are feeling a bit better.  Local support would be nice.  Have a good day, R

 

I don't think it exists, here. I'd really like to know if psychologists have some kind of requirement (as part of their accreditation) to start to insist on a client asking a doctor for drugs at a certain point.

[Rosetta]

12 hours ago, bubbles said:

 

I don't think it exists, here. I'd really like to know if psychologists have some kind of requirement (as part of their accreditation) to start to insist on a client asking a doctor for drugs at a certain point.

 

That's a good question, but as a practical matter it's probably not necessary that there be a requirement because every time they come in contact with education or continuing education they hear about meds.  I'm pretty sure that the pharm companies sponsor education for psychologists as much as possible.  Anything that a psychologist thinks will make his job easier he will recommend.  It's human nature.  Now, if the message were that drugs are tricky, sometimes dangerous and can make the job of a psychology harder at times, that would be both more accurate and a change in the culture.  

[bubbles]

9 hours ago, Rosetta said:

 

That's a good question, but as a practical matter it's probably not necessary that there be a requirement because every time they come in contact with education or continuing education they hear about meds.  I'm pretty sure that the pharm companies sponsor education for psychologists as much as possible.  Anything that a psychologist thinks will make his job easier he will recommend.  It's human nature.  Now, if the message were that drugs are tricky, sometimes dangerous and can make the job of a psychology harder at times, that would be both more accurate and a change in the culture.   

 

I even think it was done with my own benefit in mind. One day, when I was really unwell, he kept me in his office after the hour and into his lunch break (no extra charge). He could have just finished the session on schedule and sent me out, but he was too ethical to send me out into the world so distressed.

 

If it is just a guideline, or what they've heard elsewhere, I *might* be able to negotiate some sort of agreement with a therapist - him or someone else - if I do so ahead of time. If he is required to refer me on for drugs in order to meet his duty of care/procedures/whatever, then there will be no negotiating - he will need to remain licensed so he won't go outside those requirements. I'm not sure how to find out if it is a requirement or not. If a requirement, I won't beat my head against that wall! I'll find some other sort of support.

 

I've had a bit of a scare with waves recently, hence starting to think of these things. I'm feeling better now, thankfully.

 

(The first thing is that it is time to start smaller drops and hope to avoid the waves entirely! It is just upsetting that if I switch from 10% to 5% it will go from taking 3 years to finish to taking 6 years to finish.)

[Altostrata]

You should ask your therapist if it's a guideline for his practice.

 

At any rate, if you don't want to take a drug, you may politely refuse.

[bubbles]

Yes, you're right of course, I could refuse. It just becomes difficult to fight both depression and everyone (except my husband, bless him) pushing/insisting on the drugs as the only solution. The second time I went on an SSRI it was with the thought that maybe this was WD and if so I could stabilize and come down much, much slower. I don't know if that was the case or not - not way to untangle all of that now, so many years later - but coming down very very slowly will eliminate at least some of that risk.

 

I will ask about the practice rules, again, you're right. Straight to the source.