bubbles

[bubbles]

I do hope so, but so far so good. Thanks for the support, Alto.

 

[bubbles]

My mood is a little low. This isn't entirely uncommon for a drop, and not enough for me to backtrack. I'm just logging it here. I've also had headaches for the last several days. I've ignored them, but today I'm going to take something for it. I'm also focusing on getting lots of natural fats into my diet over these few days, because I've noticed that that makes a huge difference for me. I had some (very) low level anxiety prior to this drop. I put this down to the stress of assignments (what made me think further study was a good idea?, lol). It has passed now.

 

It is definitely time to start smaller drops, and I will hold this drop a bit longer than strictly necessary.

 

 

[bubbles]

Oh gosh, I've just done my calculations and I've been tapering for nearly four years.

[bubbles]

I've had a low mood for a week, but today I am feeling better.  It wasn't severe, but it was noticeable. I'm glad I waited it out and didn't backtrack, but it wasn't a fun week.

 

My usual theory is to not drop until I've felt good for a minimum of several weeks, but actually I might wait a bit longer, depending on how a project I'm working on pans out. It's due for completion early June so I might hold until it is done. I'll see how I'm going and how stressful that last week looks like being.

 

 

 

[Rosetta]

Great news, Bubbles!   Hope your project goes well!  - Rosetta

[bubbles]

Thanks Rosetta. It wasn't a good week, but riding it out seems to have been the right choice.

[bubbles]

Note for future. The pharmacist phoned me back. He can do any prescribed dose, including less than 0.1mg.

[SkyBlue]

On 4/26/2018 at 1:34 AM, bubbles said:

Oh gosh, I've just done my calculations and I've been tapering for nearly four years.

 

Oh, that's frustrating! I hate that. Hopefully it didn't cause too much of a bump in the road for you. 

[bubbles]

It did, a bit. I'm not sure why. But there you go.

 

Also, worryingly, I was reading case histories last night and saw that even people who taper properly seem to hit that SSRI discontinuation wall. I need to put strategies into place, though it's hard to know what I should do differently. I'm well, I'm engaged socially and in work/study. I'm carrying more weight than I'd like, but I'm focusing on eating nutritiously to support my overall health and not on losing weight as such. I get a decent amount of sleep and even though I do sometimes wish I could get more, I wake naturally so presumably my body thinks I've had enough. I could add in some exercise, though I find that exercise does not improve my mood - often it worsens it, though that seems to do with temperature. I live in a hot climate and being hot does not help things. I should probably try to make time to do water exercise as that might be a good compromise. I'm toying with returning to therapy to get that in place for if I need it later but I need to find a therapist who will support me in being drug -free. I know that, with my former therapist, at the first problem there will be pressure to go back on the drugs. I still wonder if a different therapist might have helped me avoid them in the first place, but that's all water under several bridges now.

 

I do have a reason to be off entirely by the end of 2019, so I've worked out as gentle a taper as possible for that and the pharmacy is being really helpful. Any time I plug any number into the calculator to do a 10% taper, it brings up a remaining taper of 3+ years.

 

Anyway,  I'm feeling better now so onward and upward. Thank you for your support SkyBlue!

 

B

[bubbles]

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but I have been having headaches. I'm often waking with them or they develop across the day. I'm not sure if I can consider this a WD effect - it certainly isn't the first time I've had reasonably bad headaches - but I'm noting it here. I am also sometimes waking in the night. I do go back to sleep again pretty quickly so it isn't causing me any distress. (Also, I was interested to read that it may be the body's natural cycle to have two sleeps over the course of a night, with a period of wakefulness in between.) I sometimes feel hot when I wake so it may just be the change of season.

 

My mood is pretty good - I seem to have got over the low period, which was unpleasant but not severe. I am much more able to cope with physical symptoms than emotional ones, so I will wait out the headaches for another week or two and reevaluate then.

 

[Rosetta]

Glad that your mood is good.  Could you be getting dehydrated and that's causing the headaches? - Rosetta

[bubbles]

Thanks Rosetta.

 

I'm a thirsty person and drink a lot of water, so I don't think I'm dehydrated. I am tired, though. I haven't been sleeping well for the last few weeks because I've been hot, but I think I've solved that now.

 

Today, I don't feel good. I made the sleep thing worse by having coffee late in the day yesterday so I only had a few hours of sleep. I've also had a couple of disappointments in the last week, so that's not helping my mood. (I'm not crashing, it just isn't a good week.)

So today I'm feeling a bit low, quite tired, and on top of that I still have the headache and the headache is worse.  I have to work today so I've taken some headache pills.

 

[Rosetta]

I hope you are feeling better now, Bubbles.

[bubbles]

I am, thank you. The headache pills took the edge off for work, and I was able to have an early night and I slept well. Amazing how a good night's sleep makes everything better!

[Rosetta]

I'm glad to hear that. -R

[bubbles]

I've noticed that my zoloft suddenly has "take with food" on it. I generally take it at bedtime, often with a cup of (decaf) tea. I can't remember to take it at any other time and actually sometimes have to get up after I've gone to bed to take it because I've completely forgotten. I'm sure this wasn't the case when I was first prescribed it.

 

So I looked it up (and put it in the zoloft tapering thread). It looks as though absorption and bioavailability are DECREASED if taking it on an empty stomach. I'm not sure what to take from that, except that I don't want to make any changes now, when I'm doing well overall. I think this theoretically means I'm effectively on *less* than I could have been if taking with food. I'll ask the pharmacist for advice when I speak to him next week. As I'm on the way down, I think this is probably a good thing.

 

Also of note: half life is 24-26 hours, which is less than the lexapro I used to take. I have noticed fewer cold turkey effects of a missed dose or two with sertraline as compared to lexapro. I guess the active metabolite softens that absence.

 

Info on absorption and half life from this link: https://www.drugs.com/mmx/sertraline-hydrochloride.html

 

"Absorption:

Slow ^{{09} {15} {28}} but consistent ^{{09} {15}}. Bioavailability and absorption rate are increased if sertraline is taken with food ^{{07} {26}}. "
 

" Half-life:
Elimination:
Sertraline: 24 to 26 hours ^{{07} {09} {26}}.
N-desmethylsertraline: 62 to 104 hours ^{{07} {26}}. " 

 

[bubbles]

So I've woken up today feeling really good. My mood is great (has been fine for a couple of weeks now), I'm quite focused again (a few days, when I dropped I was a bit all-over-the-place for a bit but didn't really notice how much until it passed) and today I woke without a headache.

 

This is 3.5 weeks since what turns out to have been about a 20% drop (!!!). Oops.

 

 

[bubbles]

1 hour ago, bubbles said:

So I've woken up today feeling really good. My mood is great (has been fine for a couple of weeks now), I'm quite focused again (a few days, when I dropped I was a bit all-over-the-place for a bit but didn't really notice how much until it passed) and today I woke without a headache.

 

This is 3.5 weeks since what turns out to have been about a 20% drop (!!!). Oops.

 

 

I can't type...

 

I'm quite focused again (*for* the last several days...)

[bubbles]

I may need to be off entirely in 18 months for 2 months. (I'd like to be off permanently, but the specific reason will be finished by then.) I'll know in a few months. Even if it comes up, there may be a way around it. However, I need to give the taper some thought now.

 

I have looked up the calculators and they tell me (roughly) 44 drops to get just below 0.1mg. At 1 month per drop, that will be 3.5 years. The last two years are below 1mg. 3.5 years is disheartening. I started at 100mg and now I'm doing really well at 9mg.

 

1.5 years is very different to 3.5 years!

 

If I take the whole 18 months, I can see a few possibilities. Some of them, I think, are not good but I'm going to just get all my ideas in writing and evaluate them later.

 

1. Drop 10% per month for 18 months, stop at 1.9mg or 1.5mg (different calculators give different figures - I suspect rounding - I'll do my own calculations later)

2. As above, but start St John's Wort at the end and taper that for as long as I like

3. Drop 10% every 12 days (ish), stop at below 0.1mg (there'd be room to hold two or three times)

4. Different - 8, 7, 6, 5.5, 5, 4.5, 4, 3.5, 3, 2.5, 2, 1.5, 1, 0.5, 0.4, 0.3, 0.2, 0.1

5. Drop 5% every 5 days (ish) stop at below 0.1mg (time for more holds if needed or to slow down toward the end)

 

Options 1-3 will probably need a liquid; option 4 can be done with mix and matching capsules at different doses.

Don't love option 1 as I'd like the final drop to be smaller.

Don't love option 2 - ditto option 1 and not sure SJW would necessarily help

Option 4 is easiest, in some ways.

Option 3 might be the safest way to start, do a few drops and see how it goes, say three and a longer hold to evaluate.

 

No rash moves, I'm not dropping again for about 2 weeks.

[bubbles]

13 hours ago, bubbles said:

 I started at 100mg and now I'm doing really well at 9mg.

Rereading this - I am doing considerably better on 9mg than I ever did at 100mg.

[Rosetta]

That's wonderful.  I'm happy for you.  It's been a long road to that place.  So nice to hear you feel better.

-Rosetta

[bubbles]

Thanks Rosetta

 

 

[bubbles]

Just heard back from the pharmacy. The liquid zoloft available in the US is not available here and they can't get it. That's okay, it's what I expected him to say, I just wanted it confirmed. The compounded suspension version they'd make for me only has a shelf life of four weeks - not long enough. He didn't think it would be easy to make the fine drops I'm talking about but he did talk about starting with a less dilute suspension and becoming more dilute as the drops get smaller to make it easier to get the right dose.

 

I phoned another pharmacy. They can do a preparation that has no water and it could last up to six months, which is more reasonable (and goes to show it is worth making more than one call). They thought it would be difficult to dose at finer points than 0.1mg (0.01ml). If that's the case, then there isn't much point in fussing with a liquid - I can do as well with a bunch of different strength capsules and mixing and matching to go down. (He did say, though, that they could do whatever concentration the doctor prescribed).

 

Or, I can make my own solution at a greater dilution (ie, 10mg = 10ml) which would allow a finer taper - so instead of a minimum increment of 0.1, it would, I think be 0.01mg. I'd be taking a big amount every day at first (9ml for a 9mg dose), but that doesn't matter. I think so anyway, I'll get someone to check my math before I do anything.

 

Or I can get scales.

 

More pondering.

[bubbles]

More calculations. At that 10mg=1ml coarseness, I'm just as well off doing a combination of capsules, and it's easier and less messy.

 

More pondering.

[bubbles]

I have arranged for my next script to be filled - 8mg. I won't drop until I have got through the next few weeks as I need my wits about me.

 

I've also arranged to see my doctor and ask him for a combination of capsules at different amounts to make things easier.

 

All good. I'm doing well. I do need off at the end of 2019, though, so I need to be a bit more organized about the rest of this taper.

 

[Rosetta]

I love it that you "ponder."  It reminds me of Pooh Bear for some reason.  -Rosetta

[bubbles]

@Rosetta

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi Bubbles, 

 

Thanks for dropping by on my thread, it was much appreciated.  Those calculations certainly need a lot of brain power and pondering. I’m  not tapering for at least three months now but I’ve already got my calculations ready. You’re on 8mg. I’m on 7.5. I could never get off it by the end of next year. It’s going to take me much, much longer. I’m so glad you can tolerate higher drops. 

 

I’m going to microtaper and it took me ages to get all the teeny tiny amounts worked out.

 

Hope you’re tapering goes well.

 

Im in a window at the moment but the CFS gives me severe brain fog. I’m going to read more of your thread when I can. 

 

Thanks again for your supoort, sending you the biggest hug ever!🤗

 

 

On 5/16/2018 at 1:04 PM, bubbles said:

More calculations. At that 10mg=1ml coarseness, I'm just as well off doing a combination of capsules, and it's easier and less messy.

 

More pondering.

 

[bubbles]

Thanks @Carmie

 

It is a long story. There may even be a way around the issue. I have to try, though. I have had many long holds, and actually now I'm regretting them a bit. But it is what it is. I've got 18 months, and I am doing extremely well, so I'm starting from a position of strength.

[Carmie]

2 minutes ago, bubbles said:

Thanks @Carmie

 

It is a long story. There may even be a way around the issue. I have to try, though. I have had many long holds, and actually now I'm regretting them a bit. But it is what it is. I've got 18 months, and I am doing extremely well, so I'm starting from a position of strength.

 

That’s fabulous Bubbles, 

 

 Great for you!! I’m glad you’re doing so well. I’ll read your story tomorrow, I can’t think much at the moment. I hope soooo much that you reach your goal at the end of 2019. I’m happy for you. 

 

💚💚💚💚💚🤗

 

 

[bubbles]

More musings.

 

I think, at this stage of my taper, that it is fair to say I am better now than I was on the full dose. This means that I also think it is fair to say that the drug was preventing me from becoming well. An interesting thought.

[wantrelief]

It is great to hear you are feeling better now than when you were on the full dose...it is an interesting way to think about it - that the drug was preventing you from becoming well.  I am very happy for you that you are becoming well now.   

[bubbles]

Thanks wantrelief.

 

It's hard to tell now, it's so long ago, but I think I was okay on 20mg of lexapro, though it was causing me a lot of pain (and expense) from the bruxing. It was awful to get off, but I also think I had some not-brilliant advice.

 

I went onto the sertraline in utter desperation after a crash after I was off the Lexapro for a while. Doctor thought it might have a better side effect profile than the Lexapro (it was worse) and I hoped the crash might have been a delayed withdrawal effect and an SSRI might fill in whatever gaps that had been left by the absence of the Lexapro.

 

I did improve on the sertraline, but who knows if it was a drug effect or just the passage of time. At 75mg, though, I wasn't well enough - frankly if I'm on those awful drugs, I need to be *well*. My dose was put up to 100mg. There may have been a brief improvement in my mood, but soon the bruxing was so bad and I was in so much pain that any mood benefit was erased. So my experience of sertraline was that it was not very effective.

 

So now, with my drops I have a few symptoms that last (usually) a week, and no more than three weeks. Then, when I've got through those symptoms, I feel better than before my drop. Brighter, clearer, better. It's like peeling back layers of paint.

 

*AND*  with the background of my being well into my perimenopause, perhaps even menopause, though it's too soon to call that.

 

Very interesting.

 

 

[Carmie]

On 4/26/2018 at 4:34 PM, bubbles said:

Oh gosh, I've just done my calculations and I've been tapering for nearly four years.

 

Hey there Bubbles, 

 

know the feeling, I’ve been tapering just as long n the way I’m going it may take another ten or so years.

 

Better to go slowly then to feel suicidal.

 

Im glad though you’ve figured out your calculations💚

 

 

On 5/24/2018 at 9:48 PM, bubbles said:

Thanks wantrelief.

 

It's hard to tell now, it's so long ago, but I think I was okay on 20mg of lexapro, though it was causing me a lot of pain (and expense) from the bruxing. It was awful to get off, but I also think I had some not-brilliant advice.

 

I went onto the sertraline in utter desperation after a crash after I was off the Lexapro for a while. Doctor thought it might have a better side effect profile than the Lexapro (it was worse) and I hoped the crash might have been a delayed withdrawal effect and an SSRI might fill in whatever gaps that had been left by the absence of the Lexapro.

 

I did improve on the sertraline, but who knows if it was a drug effect or just the passage of time. At 75mg, though, I wasn't well enough - frankly if I'm on those awful drugs, I need to be *well*. My dose was put up to 100mg. There may have been a brief improvement in my mood, but soon the bruxing was so bad and I was in so much pain that any mood benefit was erased. So my experience of sertraline was that it was not very effective.

 

So now, with my drops I have a few symptoms that last (usually) a week, and no more than three weeks. Then, when I've got through those symptoms, I feel better than before my drop. Brighter, clearer, better. It's like peeling back layers of paint.

 

*AND*  with the background of my being well into my perimenopause, perhaps even menopause, though it's too soon to call that.

 

Very interesting.

 

 

 

Good to hear your symptoms don’t last too long after each drop Bubbles, a maximum of three weeks is great. 

 

Yes, I see a lot of people struggling with menopause n perimenopause on here. Been there, done that. My periods stopped a few years ago now. I used to have bad PMS. 

 

You sound quite chirpy and im glad you’re keeping your head high. I try my best to keep positive, I’m really positive by nature but when one is in a wave one has to just use distractions to keep going.

 

Im okay at the moment too n won’t be tapering for a few months again, but I have a long, long road ahead of me.

 

Thank u so much Bubbles for your support, I’m here for you too, anytime you want to have a chat I’m here for you💚💚💚

[bubbles]

Thanks Carmie

 

I'm surprised at this being pretty much the most emotionally stable time of my life - except for when dropping. So many women have a hard time with menopause, but so far so good.

 

[Carmie]

6 minutes ago, bubbles said:

Thanks Carmie

 

I'm surprised at this being pretty much the most emotionally stable time of my life - except for when dropping. So many women have a hard time with menopause, but so far so good.

 

 

So glad to hear it Bubbles, 

 

I didn’t have major problems with menopause either. PMS was much worse.

 

Yes, I’m the same, dropping doses is when it hits me. Won’t be doing that for a few months now.

 

Again, I just want to say I’m happy you’re doing so well, sending hugs🤗🤗