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Delayed withdrawal symptoms & "late onset" depression as a WD effect - looking for journal articles


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4 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

So my current very rough hypothesis about the 3-6 month thing is that there is an immediate adjustment/adaptation to the sudden release of the serotonin reuptake inhibition, causing increased serotonin to flood into the ends of the neurons (forget what that spot is called) and a big drop in serotonin inhabiting the spaces between neurons (forget what that's called too). That's what happens acutely, and it causes symptoms. Then the body tries to adjust and reestablish homeostasis. I think that process involves turning on and off genes to synthesize various proteins, etc, because that's how bodies work. And I think THAT process is what causes, or leads to, the 3-6 month symptoms.

 

What do y'all think? Am I missing something? Does that make sense? Not that I'll ever get a chance to really test it... But maybe someday someone will.

I like the theory. There is something going on with the neurotransmitters that cause it to be fine for awhile(after the acute phase) and then get hit with PAWS. 

I follow The Plant Paradox lifestyle by Dr.Gundry. This lifestyle has given me my life back and I feel better than I have ever felt in my life. It has enabled me to finally get off of this medication and truly live my life. Nutrition is the key to health!!!!! 

 

2008 to 2019  - 20 mg Paroxetine

 

Attempted 2 CT's around the 5-6 year mark. Were absolutely terrible and reinstated. Was never explained by the doctor the seriousness of the short half life of this drug. 

 

2017 - Attempted a tapered discontinuation of this drug and reinstated after being unsuccessful.

 

2019 - Feb. 12 - After a three month taper I am off of paroxetine. The 3 months were terrible, awful withdrawal feelings. I followed the doctors guidelines for the reduction of this drug and now know it was way too fast. 
 

2019 - Oct. 12 - 8 months off paroxetine. 75% improvement since coming off the drug. Definitely have had tons of challenges along the way. Let’s go!!!! 

 

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I couldn't begin to understand the mechanism, hence my sponge analogy, lol.

 

A bit later in the year I will have a bit more time and I'll see if I can do some more investigation. I ran out of time previously.

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/14/

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg / July 2014 dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months

2015 tapered to 50mg over several months, held for several months, some more drops

2016 Feb 35mg, 6 Mar 33mg, more drops (note big drop (calc error) & up to 25mg), more drops (about 2mg at a time)

2017 - more small drops, more long holds

2018 March at 11mg;  April 20 9mg; June 11 8.1mg; (July 10 7.7mg / July 18 7.3mg); ( Sept 2 7.2mg, Sept 5 7.1mg, Sept 9 7mg); 30 Sept 6.5mg, ? 6mg, 23 Nov 5.5mg) 19 Dec 5mg

2019 (micro drops over two weeks 24 Mar 4.9mg, 28 Mar 4.8mg, 31 Mar 4.7mg, 4 Apr 4.6mg, 7 Apr 4.5mg / 22 April 4.4mg, 26 April 4.3mg, 2 May 4.2mg, 5 May 4.1mg, 9 May 4mg), 3 Oct 3.9mg, (20 Oct 3.8mg, 27 Oct 3.7mg, 3 Nov 3.6mg), 24 Nov 3.5mg, 8 Dec 3.4mg, 15 Dec 3.3mg, 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg

Current Sertraline: July 24: 2 mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

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On 9/9/2019 at 4:59 PM, Cocopuffz17 said:

I follow The Plant Paradox by Dr.Gundry.  My body has been ravaged by autoimmune diseases while on my AD. Since changing my diet my autoimmune diseases have retreated and my withdrawals are manageable. I tried to taper off paroxetine 4 years ago and it was  an absolute meltdown. The book really challenges everything we know about foods. I’ve been on it for almost 300 days now. 

 

Thanks so much! I will definitely look into this!

7 months of polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including at least 4 classes of psych meds.

1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway.

1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine

25 Mar 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 62.5 mg quetiapine

10 June 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 50 mg quetiapine

1 Sep 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 43.75 mg quetiapine

1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine

 

Supplements: Vit D3, iron, magnesium, Omega 3.

 

I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences.

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 9:20 PM, Rhiannon said:

I even had it recently when I quit citalopram at 0.1 mg after a very long, slow taper.  At something like 7-8% receptor occupancy I had zero acute symptoms, nothing at all. But pretty much right at 10 weeks out (which is when it hits for me historically) I started being symptomatic.

 

@Rhiannon did you manage to stay off, or did you have to reinstate when the delayed WD hit?

7 months of polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including at least 4 classes of psych meds.

1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway.

1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine

25 Mar 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 62.5 mg quetiapine

10 June 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 50 mg quetiapine

1 Sep 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 43.75 mg quetiapine

1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine

 

Supplements: Vit D3, iron, magnesium, Omega 3.

 

I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences.

 

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i just saw this topic. i am an living example of how late onset of depression leads to being misdiagnosed and pushed back to drugs.

 

delayed wd reactions and doctors who do not know about it made me believe i was in relapse. it caused me to go back to the AD twice. first time wd symptoms disappeared from the first pill. second time the hell started from the first pill. 

 

i strongly feel from many cases that i have read about that the main reason why so many people believe that they must go back to AD are delayed wd reactions. another truth that is so well hidden is that many bipolar diagnosis were nothing but cycles of waves and windows. i was lucky and escaped that trap for an inch.

 

 

 

On 5/28/2019 at 10:07 PM, Colonial said:

 

If I had not already been qualified as disabled with nothing else to do all day but lay in bed and be physically ill, I never would have gotten as far as I have in WD..

The physical side effects have been crippling as well as the increased anxiety, and there's no possible way I could have done anything other than be "homebound" for most of the past 4 years.

 

i understand this very well.

3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects

1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered)

7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues

4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision)

12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell

2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia

6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper)

9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper)

waves and windows

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On 9/11/2019 at 7:30 PM, persistente said:

it caused me to go back to the AD twice. first time wd symptoms disappeared from the first pill. second time the hell started from the first pill. 

 

Did you manage to get off the AD eventually? If so, how did you prevent the 'relapse'?

7 months of polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including at least 4 classes of psych meds.

1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway.

1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine

25 Mar 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 62.5 mg quetiapine

10 June 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 50 mg quetiapine

1 Sep 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 43.75 mg quetiapine

1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine

 

Supplements: Vit D3, iron, magnesium, Omega 3.

 

I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences.

 

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7 hours ago, Bee5 said:

 

Did you manage to get off the AD eventually? If so, how did you prevent the 'relapse'?

i have been off for nearly 2 years. it was hell because i got off 2 drugs without tapering. i did not know any better at the time. i did not prevent the "relapse". once i realized that it is wd and not relapse although my doctors did not agree and that it was wd both times earlier and knowing what happened at the last reinstatement, i had no other choice but to endure.  realizing how my doctors and most of them knew nothing about wd and being as stubborn and persistent as i am, i decided to endure without their "help" . i am still doing it but lately it is not that hellish although i still have bad waves.

 

i managed to stay off but even i wonder how did i do it. at times i could not do anything. my brain was not able to work at all. i could not sleep, i was in constant fear. many days i had no desire to eat at all. i could or did not want to move from my sofa for weeks. then i would be fine for few days and then back to terror of fear, anxiety, adhedonia and depression. if i did not have all the support needed from my parents, i could not do it.

 

but with each day i knew that i was doing something for myself. i was staying off that poison that my doctors prescribed to me without knowing enough about it. i was astonished how the truth about wd is hidden, i was mad and wanted to win this battle. 

3/2012 - sertralin 50 mg, no major side effects

1/2014 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks as doctor ordered)

7/2014 - back to sertalin 50 mg, no issues

4/2016 - ct sertralin 50 mg (tappered 3 weeks, my decision)

12/2016 - back to sertalin, major side effects from the first pill and the begginning of hell

2/2017 - mirtazepine 15 mg added for insomnia

6/2017 - stopped sertralin (2 months tapper)

9/2017 - stopped mirtazepine (3 weeks taper)

waves and windows

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1 hour ago, persistente said:

but with each day i knew that i was doing something for myself. i was staying off that poison that my doctors prescribed to me without knowing enough about it. i was astonished how the truth about wd is hidden, i was mad and wanted to win this battle. 

 

Great work! CT is really tough. It is mind blowing how much they just downright deny it. I had an appointment with my psychiatrist after my 3 month taper and explained the WD symptoms I was having, he denied it. Then I had a 6 month follow up. There was a student there and she asked me how coming off it was and then he said “ Yes, this can happen sometimes”. Mind blown !!! 

I follow The Plant Paradox lifestyle by Dr.Gundry. This lifestyle has given me my life back and I feel better than I have ever felt in my life. It has enabled me to finally get off of this medication and truly live my life. Nutrition is the key to health!!!!! 

 

2008 to 2019  - 20 mg Paroxetine

 

Attempted 2 CT's around the 5-6 year mark. Were absolutely terrible and reinstated. Was never explained by the doctor the seriousness of the short half life of this drug. 

 

2017 - Attempted a tapered discontinuation of this drug and reinstated after being unsuccessful.

 

2019 - Feb. 12 - After a three month taper I am off of paroxetine. The 3 months were terrible, awful withdrawal feelings. I followed the doctors guidelines for the reduction of this drug and now know it was way too fast. 
 

2019 - Oct. 12 - 8 months off paroxetine. 75% improvement since coming off the drug. Definitely have had tons of challenges along the way. Let’s go!!!! 

 

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On 9/18/2019 at 9:20 PM, persistente said:

i have been off for nearly 2 years. it was hell because i got off 2 drugs without tapering. i did not know any better at the time. i did not prevent the "relapse". once i realized that it is wd and not relapse although my doctors did not agree and that it was wd both times earlier and knowing what happened at the last reinstatement, i had no other choice but to endure.  realizing how my doctors and most of them knew nothing about wd and being as stubborn and persistent as i am, i decided to endure without their "help" . i am still doing it but lately it is not that hellish although i still have bad waves.

 

i managed to stay off but even i wonder how did i do it. at times i could not do anything. my brain was not able to work at all. i could not sleep, i was in constant fear. many days i had no desire to eat at all. i could or did not want to move from my sofa for weeks. then i would be fine for few days and then back to terror of fear, anxiety, adhedonia and depression. if i did not have all the support needed from my parents, i could not do it.

 

but with each day i knew that i was doing something for myself. i was staying off that poison that my doctors prescribed to me without knowing enough about it. i was astonished how the truth about wd is hidden, i was mad and wanted to win this battle. 

 

You are a beacon of hope, and you make me feel better about being able to come off someday. You are fortunate to have had the support of your parents. I need to keep working, and being a mom, so for me, it's going to be a multi-year tapering journey to stave off the WD symptoms. Hoping to come off the quetiapine by the end of next year, then two more meds to go. 

7 months of polypharmacy in 2015-2016, including at least 4 classes of psych meds.

1st attempt at taper was too fast. 2nd attempt is underway.

1 Mar 2018: 37.5 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 300 mg quetiapine

25 Mar 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 62.5 mg quetiapine

10 June 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 50 mg quetiapine

1 Sep 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 43.75 mg quetiapine

1 Oct 2020: 30 mg paroxetine, 150 mg lamotrigine, 37.5 mg quetiapine

 

Supplements: Vit D3, iron, magnesium, Omega 3.

 

I am not a medical professional. All my posts are my opinions only, based on my experiences.

 

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