IanM: introduction

[IanM]

I just read my very first post, and noticed an error in it: I stated I was admitted to hospital 6 times, but it was actually 3...I have made 6 visits to emergency (and maybe more at this point), but was only admitted 3 times. Meaningless info, rely, but I needed to correct it anyway.

[Shep]

14 minutes ago, IanM said:

 

Hi shep.

 

I'm not sure of dates, but I'm pretty sure i reduced the klonopin at the beginning of June, and started a super fast taper of gabapentin in march, ending at 200mg on August 8. It's all a blur, but I did start making records at the start of June, and at that point I was on 0.0625mg klonopin twice a day, and 100mg gabapentin twice a day.

 

Thanks, Ian.

 

You reduced the Klonopin in June and the gabapentin reduction in August, along with varying reductions in Olanzapine. And August was also when you introduced Lamotrigine.

 

27 minutes ago, IanM said:

I have, by my recollection, gone seriously downhill after starting lamotrigine, regardless of the dose.

 

With all of the changes in the other drugs, you likely are dealing with a profoundly destabilized nervous system which is the result of all of the changes (not simply the lamotrigine). And the hyper-sensitivity that was created, your mind/body said "no" to the lamotrigine. 

 

It's possible that spacing out your klonopin a bit more will help. And then reducing the lamotrigine, but let's get a couple of more days of the drug and symptoms journal first. 

 

Also, if possible, please try not to take a klonopin rescue dose. You mentioned "Prana Breathing" in an earlier post. The breathing techniques are excellent. Please also have a look at some other non-drug coping ideas that may help:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Hang in there. This does get better. 

 

 

[IanM]

14 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Thanks, Ian.

 

You reduced the Klonopin in June and the gabapentin reduction in August, along with varying reductions in Olanzapine. And August was also when you introduced Lamotrigine.

 

 

With all of the changes in the other drugs, you likely are dealing with a profoundly destabilized nervous system which is the result of all of the changes (not simply the lamotrigine). And the hyper-sensitivity that was created, your mind/body said "no" to the lamotrigine. 

 

It's possible that spacing out your klonopin a bit more will help. And then reducing the lamotrigine, but let's get a couple of more days of the drug and symptoms journal first. 

 

Also, if possible, please try not to take a klonopin rescue dose. You mentioned "Prana Breathing" in an earlier post. The breathing techniques are excellent. Please also have a look at some other non-drug coping ideas that may help:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Hang in there. This does get better. 

 

 

 

Thank you, Shep.

I will continue with the daily journal, but I think there will be very little variation for the foreseeable future. And what I really need right now is a small victory, like being able to say that I'm off one drug, perhaps lamotrigine or gabapentin. In all honesty, I am considering doing a CT of lamotrigine, starting tonight...I know it's not advisable, at least on this web site, but I have an overwhelmingly powerful need to DO SOMETHING.

[IanM]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for responding to my plea for help... it's giving me hope, something I am desperately in need of.

[Shep]

2 minutes ago, IanM said:

And what I really need right now is a small victory, like being able to say that I'm off one drug, perhaps lamotrigine or gabapentin. In all honesty, I am considering doing a CT of lamotrigine, starting tonight...I know it's not advisable, at least on this web site, but I have an overwhelmingly powerful need to DO SOMETHING.

 

Ian, please hold and stabilize. The powerful need to DO SOMETHING is what is making you so sick. 

 

From the  reinstatement thread:

 

 

On 10/8/2012 at 7:17 PM, Altostrata said:

Don't suddenly go off medication assuming that reinstatement is a safety net. This is one of the reasons we advocate gradual tapering to minimize withdrawal symptoms. Once the nervous system is destabilized by withdrawal, all bets are off. Humpty Dumpty has fallen off the wall.

 

Reinstatement does not always work, and you may have to live with severe withdrawal syndrome for a long while. Medicine wants to believe the acute phase of withdrawal lasts only a few weeks. From what people have posted on the Web, it can last many months.

 

The "victory" you are seeking is not being off a drug, but feeling better. You will be able to come off all these drugs, no doubt, but do so wisely and safely. 

 

I did multiple rapid tapers and cold turkeys and am more than 3 years off drugs and still struggling with insomnia. I'm getting better, but trust me when I say that feeling better is the victory, not simply being off the drugs. 

 

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Save that energy for "doing" and learn to simply "be".

 

Here are a couple of short videos on how to do that:

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

4-7-8 Breathing Exercise by GoZen video (3.5 minutes)

 

Some more information on withdrawal:

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

As moderator JanCarol likes to say, making all these changes "is like playing basketball with your brain". 

 

Slow and steady wins the race. 

 

6 minutes ago, IanM said:

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for responding to my plea for help... it's giving me hope, something I am desperately in need of.

 

You're welcome. Here's even more reasons to have hope:

 

Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

[IanM]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

Also, if possible, please try not to take a klonopin rescue dose.

 

Hi Shep,

As you may have read, I am almost completely house-bound. I am in a serious bind because I have two very painful teeth that need crowns, and one other that needs a filling. I have already cancelled three appoinments to get this work done, but I have an appointment on Wednesday morning that I am going to try to make. To do so, I fully intend to take 0.25mg of klonopin to help me through it. Maybe even more. It's gonna be brutal, and I still may have to cancel, but if I think the drug will work, I will do it.

[Shep]

Here is some information for your dental appointment on Wednesday:

 

Some people experience reactions to Novocaine due to the adrenaline. You may want to ask the dentist for a non-adrenaline med, such as Carbocaine. I had a crown done with Carboncaine when I was in acute withdrawal, and it worked well, but please discuss with your dentist for the best option for you.

 

Also, if you need an antibiotic (are you also having a root canal?), please note a potentially dangerous interaction with fluoroquinolone antibiotics. 

 

The antibiotics that people in benzo withdrawal should avoid if possible are the fluoroquinolone antibiotics, as they affect the same receptors cites as benzos and can displace benzodiazepines from their binding sites on GABA-receptors. These can precipitate acute withdrawal in people taking or tapering from benzodiazepines. Many people have severe setbacks. 

 

Here is more information:

 

Safer Pills.org - Fluoroquinolones

 

And for people with current or even prior benzo use, they are particularly dangerous - 

 

Benzodiazepine tolerance, dependency, and withdrawal syndromes and interactions with fluoroquinolone antimicrobials

 

Here's a list of the fluoroquinolone antibiotics which should be avoided if possible during withdrawal and well after: 

 

Fluoroquinolone antibiotics

 

Here is the thread on SA about antibiotics that may be helpful:

 

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin (Z-Pack), and other antibiotics

 

And the dental thread:

 

Dental surgery, dental medications, tooth discoloration

 

I hope all goes well with your dental work. 

 

[IanM]

12 minutes ago, Shep said:

Here is some information for your dental appointment on Wednesday:

 

Some people experience reactions to Novocaine due to the adrenaline. You may want to ask the dentist for a non-adrenaline med, such as Carbocaine. I had a crown done with Carboncaine when I was in acute withdrawal, and it worked well, but please discuss with your dentist for the best option for you.

 

Also, if you need an antibiotic (are you also having a root canal?), please note a potentially dangerous interaction with fluoroquinolone antibiotics. 

 

The antibiotics that people in benzo withdrawal should avoid if possible are the fluoroquinolone antibiotics, as they affect the same receptors cites as benzos and can displace benzodiazepines from their binding sites on GABA-receptors. These can precipitate acute withdrawal in people taking or tapering from benzodiazepines. Many people have severe setbacks. 

 

Here is more information:

 

Safer Pills.org - Fluoroquinolones

 

And for people with current or even prior benzo use, they are particularly dangerous - 

 

Benzodiazepine tolerance, dependency, and withdrawal syndromes and interactions with fluoroquinolone antimicrobials

 

Here's a list of the fluoroquinolone antibiotics which should be avoided if possible during withdrawal and well after: 

 

Fluoroquinolone antibiotics

 

Here is the thread on SA about antibiotics that may be helpful:

 

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin (Z-Pack), and other antibiotics

 

And the dental thread:

 

Dental surgery, dental medications, tooth discoloration

 

I hope all goes well with your dental work. 

 

 

OMG, this is not good. More info than I could ever hope to process right now.

I may need two root canals. I think I will cancel again, but will discuss with my (exhausted) wife.

[Shep]

This doesn't need to be read today. Take your time.

 

And there are plenty of antibiotics that are not fluoroquinolones. As long as you stay away from the fluoroquinolones, you'll be fine. 

 

I wouldn't cancel. You're getting informed so you'll have a much safer experience than if you hadn't done your research first. Dental health is important, so I wouldn't delay this too long. And if you need an extra klonopin, that's the kind of rescue dose that's necessary. I was talking about taking them for the day-to-day stressors, but medical procedures are different. 

 

You're going to be fine. 

 

 

[IanM]

There is another disturbing and distressing aspect to my 'illness' that I have not seen anyone mention anywhere, and that is an inability to watch anything on TV, or read almost anything on the internet or in books. When I attempt to do these things, I get the most irrational fear washing over my brain, and my brain goes into almost full meltdown. As always, I can't properly describe what happens, but it's terrifying (and that's not hyperbole).

 

I have a select few shows I can watch in reasonable safety, namely British comedy panel shows, and only a single web site I can read (other than this one) that is about virtual reality (a subject/hobby I love, but can no longer participate in, other than reading about it).

 

Also, I absolutely cannot listen to music...it also sends my brain into a tail-spin.

 

Can anyone relate to this?

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by ChessieCat
Forgot to mention.

[IanM]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

This doesn't need to be read today. Take your time.

 

And there are plenty of antibiotics that are not fluoroquinolones. As long as you stay away from the fluoroquinolones, you'll be fine. 

 

I wouldn't cancel. You're getting informed so you'll have a much safer experience than if you hadn't done your research first. Dental health is important, so I wouldn't delay this too long. And if you need an extra klonopin, that's the kind of rescue dose that's necessary. I was talking about taking them for the day-to-day stressors, but medical procedures are different. 

 

You're going to be fine. 

 

 

 

Thanks again, Shep. If I make it there, it's not gonna be any fun being in full-blown DP/DR, sitting in a dentist chair for up to an hour and a half.

[ChessieCat]

 

 

[IanM]

16 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 

 

Wow, just wow! I should search here for all my withdrawal symptoms before going to google.

 

Thank you so much CC.

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on this site.  You can use the site search function or google and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

Also see dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by ChessieCat
fixed up link

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, IanM said:

There is another disturbing and distressing aspect to my 'illness' that I have not seen anyone mention anywhere, and that is an inability to watch anything on TV, or read almost anything on the internet or in books. When I attempt to do these things, I get the most irrational fear washing over my brain, and my brain goes into almost full meltdown. As always, I can't properly describe what happens, but it's terrifying (and that's not hyperbole).

 

I have a select few shows I can watch in reasonable safety, namely British comedy panel shows, and only a single web site I can read (other than this one) that is about virtual reality (a subject/hobby I love, but can no longer participate in, other than reading about it).

 

Also, I absolutely cannot listen to music...it also sends my brain into a tail-spin.

 

Can anyone relate to this?

 

What you mention here are very common.  I have difficulty reading, earlier in my taper I was unable to watch anything but the most gentle of TV programs, I rarely have music on in the background like I used to be able to.  I went for ages when I couldn't play Angry Birds because it would increase my anxiety.  I can play it now but only for short periods of time.

[Shep]

12 hours ago, IanM said:

8am

- olanzapine, dosage all over the place, but as of today, 2.5mg

- gabapentin 100mg

- klonopin 0.0625mg

 

5pm

- gabapentin 100mg

- klonopin 0.0625mg

- lamotrigine 9.375mg

 

You may want to go ahead and move your Klonopin dose from 5 pm to 8 pm so your morning and evening dose will be 12 hours apart. This will serve two functions:

1. It may help with inter-dose withdrawal (withdrawal symptoms between doses) that is happening between that afternoon dose and the 8 am dose (and therefore improve sleep)
2. It may help with any paradoxical effects you're getting from taking three sedating drugs all at once.  The more you dampen down the nervous system with sedating drugs, the more it fights to stay awake. By changing the timing of the drugs so they aren't all bunched together, the goal is to improve sleep

The best way to move your dose is gradually, by only one hour a day. So you would move the dose to 6 pm, the next day to 7 pm, and the next day to 8 pm.

 

Please let us know your thoughts. 

[powerback]

Hi Ian ive flicked through your thread ,I empathise deeply with your pain and journey .its funny that all these psyciatrists are dumbfounded yet these drugs have black box warnings on them .

I hope you find peace and healing ,we will eventually ,try focus on revovery stories ,force yourself to read them but if they trigger you then don't for now .

It really is cruel.

Sending compassion and positive vibes your way .

Take care.

[Spideygsm]

IanM

 

I'm not a Dr so I can’t give medical advice. However, I’ve had mental health issues my entire life and have taken dozens of mental health drugs. I’ve had to start-stop drugs, I’ve had over 70 ECT (shock treatments). I’ve been hospitalized dozens of times for mental health issues. That said, I’m better now than I’ve been in 49 years of taking massive amounts of mind altering drugs. 

 

I think you realize these medications are causing you problems. Here’s what I know from personal experience. All mental health drugs and prescription sleep aids are very difficult to stop taking. Some worse than others. I’ve had to withdrawl from antipsychotics, Benzodiazepines (which hospitalized me), antidepressants,  and sleep aids listed in order of difficulty for me. 

 

I think you need to stop messing with all the meds you’re taking for awhile and stabilize. It may take weeks or months to stabilize if at all. Even raising or lowering the dose of any meds you take can throw your mind into withdrawals. Also, the withdrawal symptoms for all drugs are very similar. You don’t know what drug is causing the problem. 

 

I joined SA to share my stories and help people struggling like you. I also wanted to engage with people who actually went through the ordeal of getting off Zyprexa. It was absolutely the most difficult thing I’ve ever gone through. It takes willpower and every drop of energy in your body to get through the process. And, it takes a long time. 

 

Stabilize, pick one drug to taper at a time, and get off that drug first. Wait until your body adjusts to being off that one drug until you start tapering another drug. It may take you months or years to get off one drug. Your body will tell you. DO NOT increase the dose of the other drugs trying to relieve withdrawl symptoms. From my experience with all the drugs you’re taking, nothing helps. Search SA, search the internet. There is nothing that helps. For me, only time, moral support, exercise, and water helped.

 

If there was a magic bullet, it would be all over the internet, the Dr’s would be using it, and I’m sure SA would be sharing it. All you can do is tough it out. It’s gonna suck. No sugar coating it. Stabilize, then slow taper one drug at a time. The worst thing you can do once you start is sit at home and dwell upon how crappy you feel. Force yourself to get out and do something. 

 

Good luck

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by ChessieCat
font size

[IanM]

7 hours ago, Shep said:

You may want to go ahead and move your Klonopin dose from 5 pm to 8 pm so your morning and evening dose will be 12 hours apart.

 

I will make this change, as outlined, beginning tonight.

Thanks, Shep.

Edited October 22, 2018 by IanM
Clarity

[IanM]

5 hours ago, powerback said:

Hi Ian ive flicked through your thread ,I empathise deeply with your pain and journey .its funny that all these psyciatrists are dumbfounded yet these drugs have black box warnings on them .

I hope you find peace and healing ,we will eventually ,try focus on revovery stories ,force yourself to read them but if they trigger you then don't for now .

It really is cruel.

Sending compassion and positive vibes your way .

Take care.

 

Thank you, powerback. I really appreciate the positive vibes.

[IanM]

2 hours ago, Spideygsm said:

The worst thing you can do once you start is sit at home and dwell upon how crappy you feel. Force yourself to get out and do something.

 

I am completely house-bound by extreme agorophobia, so this is not going to happen any time soon.

 

Spidey, I really appreciate your taking the time to make the extensive posts, but in all honesty, I find them troubling and anxiety-inducing. They contain some blunt, harsh truths that I find very difficult to read, particularly the talk about how long this process will take, knowing that I am surviving minute by minute, second by second. Please refrain from reminding me that this will take years...I can't bear the thought.

 

[IanM]

Daily journal for Oct. 21, 2018:

 

8am - 2.5mg olanzapine, 100mg gabapentin, 0.0625mg klonopin. Brain dysfunction, DP/DR, bleak.

10am - breakfast.

10:30am - sharp headache, take one ibuprofen.

- whole morning spent on the couch or in bed.

- brain dysfunction continues. Afraid of how my thought processes are working.

1:30pm - lunch.

- whole afternoon spent on couch, surviving brain dysfunction.

4pm - brain dysfunction worsens, accompanied by sharp pain in my head.

5pm - 9.375mg lamotrigine, 100mg gabapentin, 0.0625mg klonopin.

5:30pm - sharp pain in head decreases somewhat, brain dysfunction lessens. This is not normal...usually continues to get worse all evening.

6pm - dinner.

- evening spent on couch, wife watching netflix, I can't watch due to fear of it, so put on headphones and watch british comedy.

10pm - in bed, watch british comedy.

11pm - develop tooth ache.

12:30, take one extra strength tylenol. 

1:30 - asleep.

5:30am - awake to anxiety/cortisol rush. Stays with me until 7:30am, lessens when I move to couch.

[Spideygsm]

IanM

 

Sorry you feel the way you do. I’m not anybody special. I’ve been exactly where you are. I won’t post in your topic again so I won’t trouble you. If you ever have a question, message me and I’ll answer. Otherwise, best of luck

[IanM]

This morning I got a phone call from my long term disability insurance company, the first time I've heard from then since April. Looks like they're gonna try to start turning the screws to get me back to work. Laughable, really, given that as recently as three weeks ago I was calling the local suicide prevention hotline in an effort to stay alive. They want me to get a second opinion, but I said no, since I've already been seen by about 6 psychiatrists, and all had different diagnosis.

 

I'm very stressed about it.

Edited October 22, 2018 by IanM
Spelling

[IanM]

52 minutes ago, Spideygsm said:

IanM

 

Sorry you feel the way you do. I’m not anybody special. I’ve been exactly where you are. I won’t post in your topic again so I won’t trouble you. If you ever have a question, message me and I’ll answer. Otherwise, best of luck

 

I didn't mean to chase you away, Spidey...that was not my intent. It was more a gentle request that you not remind me how brutal this is going to be. I hope you can understand.

[Rezten]

17 hours ago, IanM said:

There is another disturbing and distressing aspect to my 'illness' that I have not seen anyone mention anywhere, and that is an inability to watch anything on TV, or read almost anything on the internet or in books. When I attempt to do these things, I get the most irrational fear washing over my brain, and my brain goes into almost full meltdown. As always, I can't properly describe what happens, but it's terrifying (and that's not hyperbole).

 

I have a select few shows I can watch in reasonable safety, namely British comedy panel shows, and only a single web site I can read (other than this one) that is about virtual reality (a subject/hobby I love, but can no longer participate in, other than reading about it).

 

Also, I absolutely cannot listen to music...it also sends my brain into a tail-spin.

 

Can anyone relate to 

 

I too have had a difficult time leaving the house, watching TV, going on computer, paying Bills.  I am able to read so I am grateful for that.

 

The only music i can handle listening to is Christian music. 

[IanM]

5 minutes ago, Rezten said:

 

I too have had a difficult time leaving the house, watching TV, going on computer, paying Bills.  I am able to read so I am grateful for that.

 

The only music i can handle listening to is Christian music. 

 

Hi Rezten. Sorry to hear that you have a similar problem as me... it's a crummy thing. I actually tried Christian music, but couldn't do that either. 

 

As I mentioned, one of the things I can watch (and rely on heavily to pass the time) are British comedy panel shows. If you're interested, may I suggest 'Would I Lie To You'...dozens of episodes available on YouTube.

 

I hope these things improve for you as time goes by.

[Rezten]

8 minutes ago, IanM said:

 

Hi Rezten. Sorry to hear that you have a similar problem as me... it's a crummy thing. I actually tried Christian music, but couldn't do that either. 

 

As I mentioned, one of the things I can watch (and rely on heavily to pass the time) are British comedy panel shows. If you're interested, may I suggest 'Would I Lie To You'...dozens of episodes available on YouTube.

 

I hope these things improve for you as time goes by.

Hi,

 

I pray for everyone on this site in genetal and will make sure I include you.

 

God Bless.  

[IanM]

3 minutes ago, Rezten said:

Hi,

 

I pray for everyone on this site in genetal and will make sure I include you.

 

God Bless.  

 

Thank you. 🙂

[Altostrata]

@Spideygsm thank you for your attempts to be helpful.

 

Ian, given the drug cocktail you're taking, and that you're taking them all at once, your "brain dysfunction" is no surprise. Your doctors have over-drugged you badly. Will any of your doctors certify this for the insurance?

 

Don't worry, you will dig out, but it will take time. Gradually moving the Klonopin might be very helpful.

[IanM]

40 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

given the drug cocktail you're taking

 

Taking my dosage of each drug into consideration, it feels to me like I'm not taking that much, and I am concerned that I'm just naturally the way I am.

 

My pdoc will certify my drugs...at least he has in the past.

[Altostrata]

I assure you, no one is "naturally" the way you are on olanzapine, gabapentin, klonopin, and lamotrigine.

[IanM]

57 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

@Spideygsm thank you for your attempts to be helpful.

 

I really meant no offense to Spidey. I hope it's all good.

[Spideygsm]

IanM

 

I've been on the exact cocktail plus some. Please look at my signature. 

 

I was on the smallest dose of Klonipin and within 2 weeks I was addicted. I had to take more and more Benzodiazepines or I couldn’t function just like you. To me, any dose of Benzodiazepines is too much. When I started my first dose drop of Zyprexa, i felt just like when I was in Benzodiazepine withdrawl. 

 

Just don’t try and withdrawl than more than 1 drug at a time. SA has a proven record of success stories getting people off any drugs. I’m going to taper Trazodon soon and go VERY slow

[IanM]

22 minutes ago, Spideygsm said:

IanM

 

I've been on the exact cocktail plus some. Please look at my signature. 

 

I was on the smallest dose of Klonipin and within 2 weeks I was addicted. I had to take more and more Benzodiazepines or I couldn’t function just like you. To me, any dose of Benzodiazepines is too much. When I started my first dose drop of Zyprexa, i felt just like when I was in Benzodiazepine withdrawl. 

 

Just don’t try and withdrawl than more than 1 drug at a time. SA has a proven record of success stories getting people off any drugs. I’m going to taper Trazodon soon and go VERY slow

 

Thanks Spidey. I totally get the importance of going slowly, but when I feel as desperate as I do right now, it is so hard to imagine continuing to feel this way for many months, even years, longer. I've been indescribably ill for nearly two years now, and the thought of continuing on this way fills me with utter hopelessness.

[IanM]

My brain is really going to a bad place, and there is nothing I can do to stave it off. It just goes to the deepest, darkest place I can imagine, and the world around me almost disappears, and all I'm aware of is the terrifying 'sensation' in my head.

 

I need to take more of something, but I don't know what. I can't go to emergency, because they won't do anything for me, and anyway, all they would do is load me up on more drugs.

 

Desperate...again.