methuselah: Hi all! Brief intro and advice?

[Altostrata]

From your daily notes, it appears you get "burning skin" and other symptoms 3-4 hours after taking Prozac. Prozac reaches peak plasma in 4-8 hours. It also has a strong active metabolite, norfluoxetine, which may be causing "waves" later in the evening -- peak plasma may be another 8 hours.

 

How long did it take you to recover from the decrease you made on Dec 4? If it was only a few days, as you're taking 10mg, you might reduce by 1mg next week.

[methuselah]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

From your daily notes, it appears you get "burning skin" and other symptoms 3-4 hours after taking Prozac. Prozac reaches peak plasma in 4-8 hours. It also has a strong active metabolite, norfluoxetine, which may be causing "waves" later in the evening -- peak plasma may be another 8 hours.

 

How long did it take you to recover from the decrease you made on Dec 4? If it was only a few days, as you're taking 10mg, you might reduce by 1mg next week.

that burning skin does appear to be a trend and hits right about when peak plasma would.  How unfortunate.

 

im not certain I have recovered from the brand, liquid to cap switch and 2 mg drop on Dec 4, I still feel rough and have been dealing with some stress so the way I feel may be exaggerated.  Today was bad but mostly because of stress I couldn’t avoid, god I tried to, but couldn’t.

 

Based on my reading of the posts on withdrawal normal and stabilizing, I’d say I’m not there yet but traveling in that direction.  Of course, it could be the drugs making me feel bad so dropping dose may make me feel better.  What a complicated situation.  I’ll keep up with notes and see how the next week goes but I’m definitely considering a drop to 9.  Many thanks Alto!

[methuselah]

Dec 20

 

745 am - Prozac 10mg.  Woke feeling ok.  

 

915am - 50mg magnesium.  heart thumped a few times followed by burning tingling in hands which brought on some anxiety.  Few moments of Parathesia in lips

 

1015 - breakfast.  Going to eat with the Prozac dose tomorrow to see if that helps limit/smooth out what appear to be reactions to taking the drug.  Reactions that occur roughly 2-3 hours post dose.

 

1045 - things cleared.

 

2pm - relationship issues again.  Stress.  At least no work today.

 

345 - more relationship stress.  I have zero capacity for this rigjt now.  Pretry difficult time until about 530 basically trying to avoid a panic attack from seemingly endless fighting with gf. Then i entered zombie mode.

 

Todays stress sapped me of all strength and I was a zombie all night until about 11pm when I sorta cleared up.  Watched a movie and had some anxiety and fear of having some kind of panic event.  Good times.

 

Asleep at 130am

[methuselah]

Dec 21 - *maybe it’s hard to take todays note as illustrative of how im actually doing as there has been A LOT of stress recently in my relationship with my gf.  Not sure how stress manifests itself into whatever my situation is.  I guess my symptoms below and in previous days are from the change that occurred on Dec 4.  I have no earthly idea what happened on thanksgiving day as I didn’t change the med I was in or anything.  Makes zerooooo sense!

 

745am - took Prozac with food this morning. I’ve felt like sh1t all morning. Woke up with hands sorta numb and tingling.

 

1030am - more heavy relationship stress.

 

12pm Exhausted.  cold and mild skin burning sensation in arms.  Feeling very low.

 

1pm - climbed out of the hole a bit and did some work

 

230 - cold and some DR.  cold and chills appear to be a physical manifestation of stress for me.  It always comes after the stressor, whether wit be physical or mental stress.  50mg magnesium

 

430 - meh

 

5pm - got a shower, was pretty intense in there.  Auditory issues, maybe some pseudo hallucinations.  It’s more like a sound that is distorted or just makes me question what I’m hearing and if I’m losing my mind.

 

6pm - had a small social event I absolutely had to attend.  It was ok at first and then things spiraled into a crescendo of anxiety with some Very strong DR.

 

7-9pm - ate dinner and some semblance of relief came though it was foggy.

 

11 - more strange auditory stuff.  Just don’t get it. 

 

Final thoughts- Tough day.  This certainly feels like withdrawal to me.  Not sure how to proceed, I guess tough it out.  Not sure a dose reduction is the answer, not sure that it isn’t.

 

[ChessieCat]

When we are stressed the body produces more cortisol.  The body then uses more glucose/sugar so the body's blood sugar levels can fluctuate depending on if, when and what you eat.

 

And there can be various changes in the body due to the anxiety.  See the labelled diagram on this page:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/anxiety-self-help/

[methuselah]

Dec 22

 

730 am - Prozac 10mg.  Woke with anxiety, some ptsd and remnants of yesterday’s events.

 

10am - breakfast and windowish starts

 

1130 - cold with chills

 

12pm - windowish

 

1pm - headache, sinus pressure, feel sorta sick

 

130- 4 pm - windowish.  Lunch at 2pm

 

415pm - headache

 

430-10 - window with a haze.

 

1130 - anxiety after reading some Shipko articles on the seemingly unavoidable nature of akathisia after coming off these drugs. Thoughts like racing whispers.

 

12am - asleep

[methuselah]

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

When we are stressed the body produces more cortisol.  The body then uses more glucose/sugar so the body's blood sugar levels can fluctuate depending on if, when and what you eat.

 

And there can be various changes in the body due to the anxiety.  See the labelled diagram on this page:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/anxiety-self-help/

@ChessieCat thank you.  That diagram seems pretty spot on to me.  I realize I can work on my diet a bit regarding consistent  timing of meals and adding more greens.  I found some info on radical acceptance as well.  I really need to work on these things as I’ve always relied on meds for issues like this.  

The whispering racing thoughts and some form of auditory hallucination or hypersensitivity or whatever it is are very troubling, I don’t think this is something I’ve ever dealt with before.

[methuselah]

@ChessieCat 

@Altostrata

 

in your opinions, am I withdrawing at this point?  Any thoughts are so welcome.  I have no issues with a .5mg or 1mg dose change in either direction, this is pretty miserable most of the time, today is particularly awful after yesterday’s semi respite. I shall hold the course as well if that’s the most logical route to take.  Thank you.

 

M

[ChessieCat]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:50 AM, Altostrata said:

How long did it take you to recover from the decrease you made on Dec 4? If it was only a few days, as you're taking 10mg, you might reduce by 1mg next week.

 

[methuselah]

19 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 Define recovery.  I feel like I haven’t recovered and have mostly gotten worse.

[ChessieCat]

On 12/9/2021 at 7:58 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

It is difficult to say.  You will need to listen to your body/symptoms, which you are already doing by keeping notes.

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

Moderator brassmonkey has written more about WDnormal in his Success Story:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

 

[Altostrata]

What was the change in symptom pattern you experienced after decreasing on December 4? How long did this change last?

 

I do not see the burning symptom in your recent notes, did that go away?

[methuselah]

Dec 22

 

730 am - Prozac 10mg.  woke with Anxiety.

 

1030am - feel miserable and hopeless all morning. Anxiety abounds.  Some skin burning and hand tingling/numbness.  Worst I’ve felt so far.

 

Why is this happening, why.  Could this be this intense from the 2mg dose drop and brand drug switch!?

 

Noon - tired, sleepy

 

1245 -  very negative thoughts. 

 

115pm - some burning skin sensation.  Tired.

 

135pm - miserable

 

205pm - 20mg propranolol

 

Rest of day was pretty terrible as wel.  Worst day yet easy

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by ChessieCat
Resized font

[methuselah]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What was the change in symptom pattern you experienced after decreasing on December 4? How long did this change last?

 

I do not see the burning symptom in your recent notes, did that go away?

@AltostrataSymptoms have gotten worse after decreased dose.  I’m still at the decreased dose on 10mg.  Remember, I also switched from generic liquid 12mgto brand name pill 10mg.   I feel Much more consistently bad.  Racing whispering thoughts that don’t feel like my own have increased and are very scary.  Also burning skin and tingling hands arms still present.  Increased sound sensitivity and DR.  Low mood.  Zero motivation.  Mostly couch bound unless I force myself to do something. 

[methuselah]

@Altostrata I spoke with Dr Shipko for a while the other day, explained my situation and background.  He is of the mind that I stay put where I’m at for several months or up dose to 12.5mg to eliminate the effects I’m dealing with.  He seems to think it is withdrawal.  Also, he is not a fan of generics and is on board with my hypothesis of the generic liquid Prozac dosing and fillers being at issue in my case.  As is my regular pdoc.
 

Also of note, he mentioned he stopped advising people to come off of these drugs due to his experiences with the severity of withdrawal and possibly of post withdrawal Akithisia.  He said he took someone off over 7 years and they still ended up with the akithisia afterwards.  The solution to the akithisia is  is reinstatement according to Shipko.  

[Altostrata]

I do not see akathisia in your symptom pattern.

 

If you are still getting skin burning regularly after ingesting Prozac, it's probably an adverse reaction to the drug.

 

It's very likely your system is still getting used to the change you made 20 days ago. It takes weeks for a change in Prozac to reach steady-state, meaning your system may only now be fully recognizing that you decreased from 12mg to 10mg. This may settle out in some days.

 

Adverse effects and symptoms from withdrawal will fluctuate. One day of notes is not sufficient to see a trend. It is possible that tomorrow you'll have a much better day. Please continue to post daily notes.

[methuselah]

18 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

I do not see akathisia in your symptom pattern.

 

If you are still getting skin burning regularly after ingesting Prozac, it's probably an adverse reaction to the drug.

 

It's very likely your system is still getting used to the change you made 20 days ago. It takes weeks for a change in Prozac to reach steady-state, meaning your system may only now be fully recognizing that you decreased from 12mg to 10mg. This may settle out in some days.

 

Adverse effects and symptoms from withdrawal will fluctuate. One day of notes is not sufficient to see a trend. It is possible that tomorrow you'll have a much better day. Please continue to post daily notes.

 

Thanks.  No akathisia thank god.  Just mentioned Shipkos comments for your information.

 

I do have many days of symptoms posted.  Yesterday just felt like a definite bottom.  Hopefully uphill from here.  I’ll keep tracking.  Thanks.

[methuselah]

Dec 25

 

8am - woke up ok but it never lasts long.  Prozac 10mg

 

Sorta tired and  very out of it all morning

 

Noon - Depressed and anxious and overall feeling terrible.  Clammy and hot.  Propranolol 20mg

 

1pm - propranolol seemed to help or perhaps pure coincidence.  Window started.

 

Windowish from 1pm-midnight with…

330pm - mild burning skin and some anxiety.

 

8pm - some anxiety

[methuselah]

Dec 26

 

8am - Prozac.  Woke with some anxiety but it dissipated rather quickly.

 

10am - some anxiety

 

Noon - irritabile and sorta anxious.  Some DR.  Sorta uncomfortable.

 

1pm - windowish thru 430

 

430pm - started reading some very scary stories on SA.  Need to stop that, I just go down this hole and keep reading.  Triggers anxiety every time!

 

6pm - still having general anxiety feeling

 

7pm - Anxiety lasted until I took a walk.  I have been doing little exercise and I usually exercise daily.  Perhaps a sign it’s time to start moving again.

 

1030 - had some skin burning, chest thumps, and somewhat intense anxiety that lasted about 30 minutes

 

12am. - sleep

[methuselah]

Dec 27 - Jan 3: waves and windows.  Morning time mostly tricky, with afternoons showing mixes of windows/waves, and evenings being generally better.

 

Jan 4 - did a much more aggressive workout than I had any business doing.  Paid the price that night, as I couldn’t sleep.

 

Jan 5 - was very miserable as well with being very cold, shivering, depressed, DR, auditory strangeness, lethargy, etc.  started to clear up at about 8pm

 

today a bit better, will update tomorrow.

[methuselah]

@Altostrata after some research, reflecting, input from this site, and speaking with compound pharmacist…it seems I took a full bottle, one month worth, of the liquid generic Prozac that was several months old and very well may have been expired.  The pharmacy by defaults adds a year to the disbursement date of the drug so their expiry date is pretty much meaningless imo.  
 

This would also explain the honeymoon month before the thanksgiving day event…honeymoon meaning increased good  emotions and connections, enjoying food again, enjoying music more fully, more productive at work, increased sexual sensitivity, and so on.  All due to decreased dose of drug.    
 

ultimately, I believe and have concluded, can’t prove, I was taking a liquid Prozac that was dosed at much less than indicated on the bottle due to time lapse which led to withdrawal starting on thanksgiving with symptoms sticking around to date due to the adverse event.  Switching to the 10mg brand capsules may or may not have been the right thing to do but here I am.  I’ve been tempted to updose slightly and decrease dose slightly but I have done neither.  So here I sit.  
 

ive found an integrative holistic psychiatrist in my area that assist folks with situations like ours, including tapering.  I’m on a 4-6 month wait, but that’s ok.  I guess I’ll sit tight at 10mg and ride this out and wait to meet with the new psych and take it from there. 
 

Any thoughts are appreciated.  Thank you for reading

[methuselah]

 

Jan 6

 

8am - slept well.  wake and take 10mg Prozac.  Stayed in bed until 930am as just not ready to face another day of the same ole.

 

10am - clammy hands and anxiety, feeling down and somehow beyond frustrated, hard to explain

 

1030 - feeling slightly better.  Breakfast, 1000mg fish oil, 50mg magnesium

.

130pm - kundalini beginner yoga - breath of fire

 

2pm - still feel odd but maybe better

 

3pm - 50mg magnesium glycinate

 

530 - window, more or less, through 530.

 

6pm - feel a little speedy.  No caffeine or other stimulants to cause.

 

Felt ok rest of night.  Maybe a little disconnected.

 

9pm - 50mg magnesium

 

12am - sleep

[methuselah]

Jan 8

 

8am Prozac

 

930am - get up.

 

10- 2pm - feel pretty good.  Motivated.

 

2-3 - became irritable.

 

330 - irritability dissipated, headache started

 

4 -5pm - nap

 

630 - dinner out.  Intense feeling while out, hard to describe.  Anxiety and agitation combined, very uncomfortable.

Lasted maybe 15 minutes.

 

Rest of night was sorta blah.  Irritable and sorta obsessive. Underlying discomfort remained after dinner.

 

Asleep by 1am

[Altostrata]

Very possible your liquid had lost strength. Did you get a new bottle? Do you feel better with fresh liquid?

 

If you can recommend this holistic psychiatrist, please add contact information to  

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

[methuselah]

@Altostrata

 

As I mentioned in my previous posts, I replaced the 12.5mg generic liquid dose with the 10mg brand name Prozac pulvule dose as I’d lost faith in the generic.  Generics have been all garbage for years as far as I’m concerned.  I’m definitely still reeling from the adverse event that occurred from the presumed expired Prozac as well as the drop in dose from 12.5mg daily to 10mg daily.  It’s been a h3ll of a ride so far, strange trip.  I’ll keep notes up as as per usual.

 

I have two integrative holistic practitioners I’m going to see but I’m hesitant to recommend until I actually speak with them.  one has a have 4-6 month waits so it will be a minute before I add to the list.  The other I speak to today!  The doc with 4-6 month wait came highly recommended for ssri tapers and complex med mgmt, which is usually the need in this site.  I have grounded, but high hopes nonetheless. Here is her website if you’re interested…

http://www.naturalmindmd.com

 

[Altostrata]

Please let us know how it goes.

[methuselah]

Jan 8

 

8am Prozac

 

930am - get up.

 

10- 2pm - feel pretty good.  Motivated.

 

2-3 - became irritable.

 

330 - irritability dissipated, headache started

 

4 -5pm - nap

 

630 - dinner out.  Intense feeling while out, hard to describe.  Anxiety and agitation combined, very uncomfortable.

Lasted maybe 15 minutes.

 

Rest of night was ok, but underlying discomfort remained after dinner.

 

Asleep by 1am

 

Jan 9

 

8am - 10mg Prozac.

 

1030am - Sorta rough morning, feel off.

 

11:15am - feel ok

 

1230pm - small auditory episode with anxiety following.  Heard a whisper, I think it was bc from my son talking, but questioned if it was him or my brain going haywire and hearing things.

 

Breakfast, 50mg magnesium, 1000 mg fish oil

 

230pm.- Steelers are terrible

 

10pm - DR and auditory issue

 

Midnight - sleep

 

Jan 10

 

6am - woke with some intense janxiety that lasted about 20 minutes then fell back to sleep

 

8am - 10mg Prozac

 

930am - 50mg magnesium

 

10-1130 - cold with prickly skin

 

1130 - tired

 

12-8pm- and honest to god, real life,  full window.

 

830- cold again. Prickly skin. Went away quickly

 

9-12am - ok then went to sleep

 

Jan 11

 

8am - Prozac 10mg.  Woke feeling ok but noticed a very slight issue with this recurring auditory issue.  It’s like a racing thought at a whisper.  But it’s also like normal, daily sounds are questioned to be actual sounds or in my head.  I think I’ll call it auditory derealization. I don’t believe it to be an auditory hallucination per se.  Very strange symptom.

 

10am - odd irritability kicked in for about 5 minutes then I got tired and took a nap for an hour

 

In and out if meh rest of day, definitely not horrible though.

 

Jan 12

 

8am - 10mg Prozac.

 

Had a headache all day.  Sorta felt like I was getting sick.

 

Flat and low energy all day.  No exercise.

 

7pm had a bout depression and anxiety and overwhelm hit.  The two latter symptoms were short lived but the depression stuck hard for about 30 minutes then sorta cleared.  Not pleasant.

 

12 am - Sleep

 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, methuselah said:

Woke feeling ok but noticed a very slight issue with this recurring auditory issue.  It’s like a racing thought at a whisper.  But it’s also like normal, daily sounds are questioned to be actual sounds or in my head.  I think I’ll call it auditory derealization. I don’t believe it to be an auditory hallucination per se.  Very strange symptom.

 

I had times when I would "hear" talk back radio conversations when the fan was turned on but the radio was turned off.

 

It's like the brain hears a noise and attaches it to something that is already in the memory.

[methuselah]

3 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I had times when I would "hear" talk back radio conversations when the fan was turned on but the radio was turned off.

 

It's like the brain hears a noise and attaches it to something that is already in the memory.

@ChessieCatThanks for telling me that, it’s good to hear similar stories as these symptoms do make one feel like they’re losing it.  
 

I’ve been keeping notes up for awhile and posting them here.  And while I am going through windows and waves, I appear to be SLOWLY stabilizing.  I’ve read brassmonkey’s threads on stabilization and Wdnormal, but I’m curious on your experience. When you were tapering and ran into issues with maybe too fast a taper, how long did it take for you to stabilize?  And also, when you did stabilize, did you feel relatively good?  Thank you for any feedback and keeping an eye on my thread.  

[ChessieCat]

I've just found a post that I made about it to another member back in August 2017.

 

This is what I posted

 

I've experienced the same thing with voices and songs, as have other members.  At one point during my taper I would hear radio talk back conversations whenever I had a fan on.

 

intrusive-repetitive-song-symptom-or-ear-worms

 

And from best-description-of-healing-process:

 

Temporal Lobe  These lobes are on the side of your brain on each side near your ear. It makes up the whole left and ride side of your brain.  This is where auditory information is processed, including hearnig itself, but also the "Meaning" of what we are hearing, as well as part of speech and language, emotion, and buncha other stuff.  In early recovery, someone was talking to me and I couldn't tell you what they said past the first sentence.  My auditory processing was ALL messed up.  I couldn't picture what a person was saying to me in real time - and by the time I caught up to them, I was lost and they were talking about something else! Also - When I was laying there in bed, I could "hear" things that weren't there in the noise of my box fan. I'd hear the fan blowing -but I also "heard" like sickening circus music. I believe this is because there is noise coming into my ear - but my brain cannot adequately "prune" what it is hearing at differnet frequecies because there is not enough GABA to inhibit it to create something meaninful.  There was all this "noise" and my brain was just firing off glutamate.  So instead of actually "processing" the noise - it was firing off ideas about what it was hearing - and they were ALL wrong.  I would be hearing what sounded like circus music - and at the same time, my poor brain was looking through my hippocampus to find all the memories I ever had of being at the circus - and then I'm reliving those memories- and at the same time, my amygdala is getting fired upon - so I'm in fear. So I'm a quivering mess of a person laying in the bed hearing and seeing things and remembering times in my childhood and scared to pieces.  Seriously? Yes - I felt crazy. But not in my MIND.  It was my BRAIN.  It's the BRAIN.  And it's normal. The structures in the brain are "obligated" to work this way.

[methuselah]

I’m pasting my notes from the last several days.  As a reminder… on Nov 25 I believe I went into acute withdrawal after dosing with what I conclude was expired liquid generic Prozac at 12 mg per day for a full month.  I switched to brand name Prozac 10mg per day on dec 4th.  

I’m not really doing great so I’m wondering if my notes over the last few weeks show an indication of stabilizing at the current dose.  Or if I should increase slightly by .5 mg or something.  I want to stabilize and taper but I need to stabilize and hold for a while first of course.

 

I’m going to tag a few mods I haven’t worked with yet as I’ve read through many threads and found their responses particularly thoughtful.  Many thanks to all for any feedback. I realize there are much worse cases than me here and I’m doing my best to not add comments or tags unless I flthink it’s necessary.  Thanks again!

 

 

@Shep  @Onmyway  @Altostrata @ChessieCat

 

Jan 13

 

745am - Prozac

 

9am - 12pm - Slight auditory DR, some depression, some slight anxiety.

 

1pm - ok

 

530- 630pm - 30 min yoga followed by 15 min headspace meditation

 

Good rest of night.  Sleep at night midnight.

 

Jan 15

 

8am 10 mg Prozac- Irritable at points with a bout of semi-intense DR when at mall in food court.  Something about eating triggers things sometimes.  Did 30min intermediate yoga.  Got into massive fight with Lindsay at night.  Ok for a good bit of the day though.

 

Jan 16

 

8am 10 mg Prozac - Good in morning.  Short irritability bout.  Flat and depressed all day, more or less. Had sorta intense anxiety creep in for a few after eating beets for whatever reason at about 8pm.  Felt sorta weird rest of night, DR

 

Jan 17

 

8am 10 mg Prozac - Depression is the name of the game this morning.  Still, able to clean apt up and all. Got bad for a bit then subsided.  Reading the fng SA site and lying in the couch, not healthy but I keep going back to it.  Need to get up and move around.

 

Got up, moved around and did some errands. It helped.

 

Jan 18

 

8am 10mg Prozac- Day was ok.  Still limited motivation but a bit better today.  Cognitive impairment with processing relatively simple math (percentage like weighting) and memory very poor.  The cog impairment is pretty consistent.  Headache at night into eyes.  Trouble falling asleep and broken sleep.

 

Jan 19

 

8am 10mg Prozac- Woke with headache.  Tired and lack of motivation. Depressed for a few hours, gave way to intense brain fog after eating.  Difficult to comprehend what I’m hearing. Things cleared up, was able to do yoga.  Some work stress and depressed at end of night.

 

Jan 20

 

8am 10mg Prozac - Woke depressed.  Window opened after starting working.  Ate breakfast at noon, got cold/chills after eating.

[Onmyway]

Hi @methuselah, 

I have not been following your thread so my answer will be based only on the last post you made. Looking at that post I have to say that you don't seem to be particularly distressed about your symptoms. I am not sure if you do feel distressed and it doesn't come through. 

 

I believe in not changing things in withdrawal as much as possible - the rule of the 3KIS, and you have been on this dose for a while now so if you haven't reached stability, you will soon. Increasing the dose will only make new changes to which your brain has to adapt. My advice may have been different if you were barely hanging in there but your symptoms seem to be describing a kind of stability albeit unpleasant. 

 

Withdrawal is sometimes hard and acceptance that you may not feel 100% for a long while really helps with it. For me that occurred in the beginning where I could not sleep for a long time - months for more than a couple of hours a night and I struggled with it trying benzos and antihistamines and complaining - I was a bit obsessed with sleep. At one point my GP (who I really don't like) said to me that nothing would happen if I didn't sleep for a while. I, of course, protested! How dare he! What if I break into a psychosis and attempt suicide. What if I have panic attacks etc.? But he was right. Nothing bad happened to me and all these benzos that I was trying, all these antihistamines, all these supplements just made things worse. So I stopped. As I accepted the fact that nothing horrible would happen if I didn't sleep, things shifted. Yes, not sleeping was uncomfortable. Yes, I would forget my words at times and would be constantly exhausted.  Yes, work was almost impossible. Yes, it made me more depressed and irritable. But it was OK. I could tolerate this state. It was temporary - my sleep did get better and it's still only 5-6 hrs a night but that's so much better than 2-3.

 

After this a lot of withdrawal became not a search for 'can I be back to 100%?' or 'this is so horrible, when is this going to get better?' but to  "Can I bear this for the next few hours, next few days, until the next month and the next window?" And the answer has always been yes. And things have always gotten better overall. They do get worse at times, sometimes for a very long time - the windows and waves - so during those times I am miserable and I complain and I am not happy about it. But I don't have to be constantly happy. And things always change. 

 

I am telling you this to say that withdrawal will be uncomfortable. DR is very hard. Anger and irritability are hard. Depression is hard. The yuck feeling (I don't know a better description for it) is hard. But you can bear it and get through it. Don't focus on the problem, focus on the resources you have that can match the problem. You have been through worse. Once you can stand still and not fight these difficult feelings, they settle - things shift because your outlook shifts.

 

This also helps in relationships - yes, you will be irritable and hate having to do this for your partner/sister/friend but feeling that way is not the end of the world and it doesn't have a deeper meaning. You will feel differently about them tomorrow. Yes you are depressed this morning but it doesn't mean that you will always be depressed, it will get better. This is coming from someone who was used to fight these things (and I still do sometimes, I'm only human) but I wish I had known this earlier. Tolerating some distress and not looking to always be perfectly happy or perfectly peaceful would have saved me years of medication and withdrawal. Don't underestimate your resilience. 

 

Here Brassmonkey talks about Withdrawal Normal. 

☼ Brassmonkey: Talking about myself - Page 23 - Introductions and updates - Surviving Antidepressants

 

So, my advice, based on the information that I have about how you are feeling, is to not make changes. The benefits of keeping things stable outweigh the costs of feeling bearably miserable for a while. 

 

The decision is, of course, always yours. You are the one who knows how much you can tolerate and how much you want to tolerate. 

 

Hope you start seeing some big windows soon! 

Be gentle to yourself.

OMW

Edited January 20, 2022 by Onmyway

[methuselah]

Hi @Onmyway

 

I’m sorry for the delay in responding as I read your post the day you wrote it.  Your words were so thoughtful and touching and…just the perfect words for me in the moment.  I sincerely thank you so so much for your post and telling me a bit of your story and your approach to dealing with it all, it really truly means the world to me.

 

 I’ve been trying to think of a worthy response but the words have eluded me in the muck that is my brain at the moment.  I know you know this, but I want to remind you of how helpful your words are to folks like me in our times of difficulty.  Again, thank you^♾   

 

 

On 1/20/2022 at 3:40 PM, Onmyway said:

. I am not sure if you do feel distressed and it doesn't come through. 

I feel distressed sometimes more than others.  It does seem to be slowly slowly getting better as the days turn into weeks and almost into months now since Dec 4.  Depression can hit hard and even almost hurt.  The auditory DR as I’ve termed it, and the standard sorta visual dr can hiit hard, but it’s slowly fading to background or at least my reaction to it isn’t as severe. The irritability and agitation can hit hard but also lessening.  The anxiety is lessened for sure.  The cog fog is pretty steady and makes works a challenge. My memory is complete garbage right now.  
 

On the brighter side, I can exercise again without significant sensitivity and my heart feeling like it’s going to break through my chest with nasty waves coming on thereafter.  I am still taking it rather easy compared to my normal more Intense yoga workouts though.  I’m focusing on daily 20 min meditations, I tried kundalini but couldn’t get comfortable with the chants.  I’m reading “the happiness trap” again and working on implementing ACT and CBT.  I’m getting more productive at work.  
 

All that to say, It does feel like I’m starting to find an unpleasant stability or equilibrium as you said above.  I like your term “the yuck feeling”, that’s quite accurate.  Some good synonyms are like a “blah” or “meh”feeling too, highly scientific  😀  I’m hoping it continues to improve and I can hit a more satisfactory level of stability before I begin taper.  Based on your response and my symptoms journal, I’m thinking that no more changes in medication are indicated at this point giving it another 4-6 months, does that sound reasonable to you?  I know inaction is the best action in my case, action in the past for me in similar situations has led to more drugs with more symptoms and Benzo dependence.  Like most here, I’m just looking for the fastest route to normal so inaction is counter to all instincts.  
 

Thanks again On my way!, I’m not religious, but if I was I’d say you all are doing gods work here. 

 

Sincerely,

 

M 

 

[methuselah]

Every day journal listed below, 10mg Prozac brand capsule.  I really don’t know what’s going on with me but I’m definitely in a weird mental state, Perhaps I’m reaching “Wdnormal” slowly.  My instinct to do something or change something continues to kick in when I feel unwell. I’ve been considering  trying a drop in the Prozac capsule to 9.5mg just to see what happens.  Maybe switching to compound pharmacy liquid over a few weeks so I’m on a clean liquid and can taper from there.  I probably won’t do either yet but there it is.
 

Jan 21

 

Was able to be pretty productive at work.  Felt sorta blah all day but nothing too bad.  Some auditory dr sprinkled in here and there.

 

Jan 22

 

Woke up with maybe some visual snow, strange thing to see.  Also some auditory dr sprinkles.

 

 

Jan 23

 

Cloudy mind, strange thiight patterns.  Like mind is sort of someone else’s or something.  “Mild” but consistent throughout day

 

Jan 24

 

Best day I’ve had in a while

 

Jan 25

 

Morning was a bit rough with the strange thought pattern where my mind felt off.  Pretty productive and motivated at work from noon until 7.

 

Jan 26

 

Day similar to yesterday with thought pattern that doesn’t feel like my own.  Impossible to explain at this point, got sorta worse at night   Had a irritable incident where co worker talked for like an hour and a half all over the place e, total waste of time.  After call I could still hear him blabbering in my head and I got pretty angry.  Strange.  Productive at work more or less.  Lots to do despite my best efforts, and lots of stress accruing.

 

Jan 27

 

More of the same with the strange thought pattern.  Brain just doesn’t feel like my own almost.  Hoping this is just some sort of wave and will subside soon.  Some auditory dr this morning as well.

 

Anxiety seems to be sorta controlled at this point, more or less.  The mental weirdness is what seems to have stuck at this point and certainly freaks me out.

 

Also noticed some sexual anhedonia.  Disturbing intrusive thoughts out of nowhere in the evening before sleep.

 

 

Jan 28

 

Woke to Intrusive thoughts (sorta like repeat of word suicide in head but no intent at all) this morning and some auditory DR.  Just laid on the couch all morning as Tired of this and finally got up to work at 11am.

[methuselah]

Re the intrusive thoughts, I’m reading through “overcoming unwanted intrusive thoughts” by Sally Winston and Martin Seif. Their six steps to reduce distress are:

 

Recognize - pause and label as intrusive

Just thoughts - remind yourself these are just thoughts 

Accept and Allow- leave the thoughts alone, don’t engage, let them do whatever they do.  Observe 

Float and Feel - concentrate on what is as opposed to what if.  Basically focus on breathing or physical senses to ground yourself 

Let time pass - observe from a curious disinterested POV

Proceed - even when having the intrusive thoughts, continue whatever it is you were doing prior to the thoughts.  

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, methuselah said:

I’ve been considering  trying a drop in the Prozac capsule to 9.5mg just to see what happens.  Maybe switching to compound pharmacy liquid over a few weeks so I’m on a clean liquid and can taper from there.

 

It is possible to make your own liquid from the contents of a Prozac capsule.

 

From Post #1 of the Tips for Tapering Prozac topic:

 

 Making your own fluoxetine liquid

Fluoxetine is one of the few psychiatric medications with a long history of do-it-yourself dilution in water or juice. Mixed in cranberry juice, it's been called "Cranzac."

My own personal preference would be to dilute it with water, to avoid any degradation that might be caused by sugar or acid in the juice. Also, it will be easier to see how well the fluoxetine is dissolved in water. (There may be particles swirling around, that's the filler in the capsule that doesn't dissolve.)

Your fluoxetine liquid may be a little bitter -- just swallow it quickly. You might want to chase it with a little fruit juice.

For very gradual tapering, for example, you can dissolve a 10mg capsule or orally dispersible tablet in 10mL of water to make a solution with 1mg Prozac in 1mL of water. To take 1mg Prozac, use an oral syringe to take out 1mL.

Refrigerated, it's supposed to be stable for 14 days. From a pharmaceutical technician manual