Dhyssop1: Prayer helps

[Dhyssop1]

I've been praying alot through this whole withdrawal ordeal and God has helped me to persevere.  

 

 

 

 

 

Remeron 15 mg. for 2.5 years

                     7.5 mg for about 6 months

                     3.25 mg. for about 3 months (jumping off dose per MD recommendation)

Originally started due to failed transition from Paxil to Cymbalta over a 1 week timeframe.  Suicidal thoughts made MD prescribe Remeron.  

[ChessieCat]

Hi Dhyssop and welcome to SA,

 

Thank you for creating your drug signature.  Please add the other psychiatric drugs as well as the dates for all drugs for the different doses.  This will allow us to see your drug history at a glance.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Q:  What are your current symptoms?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

This is your own Intro topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

 

There are many existing topics on the site.  You can either use the site search function or use a search engine and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search string.

[Dhyssop1]

Thank you for reaching out.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Dh.

 

This is the key question:

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Q:  What are your current symptoms?

 

[Dhyssop1]

Insomnia, anxiety.

[Songbird]

Hi Dhyssop1, so you are currently still taking 10mg Paxil daily, but no Remeron?  What was the date you jumped from 3.25mg Remeron to zero?

[Dhyssop1]

Still on Paxil 10 Mg.  Last Remeron was on May 22.  If I could sleep more than 2 hours at a time (5 to 6 hours total each night), I think I'd feel better.  Melatonin made me nauseous.  Lemon balm made me nauseous.  I've take .25 mg  of Xanax twice when anxiety was rising so I don't have full blown panic.  Other than that, dandelion tea has helped, and lots of water.  I'm also in menopause.  

[Songbird]

Were you stable on the Paxil and Remeron combination?  Did the insomnia and anxiety begin after jumping off Remeron on May 22?  How severe do you feel your anxiety is (e.g. out of 10)?  Please be very careful with Xanax, it is easy to become dependent.

 

See these topics about non-drug methods to cope with anxiety:

The Dr Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

I know your sleep is not ideal, but actually, six hours total sleep each night is not too bad, it could be a lot worse.  It's normal to wake at the end of each sleep cycle, but most people don't remember because they quickly fall back to sleep.  What dose of melatonin did you try? 

 

You might try some relaxation exercises, which are great for calming the nervous system, helping to reduce anxiety and encouraging sleep.  For example: progressive muscle relaxation, gentle yoga, calming breathing exercises, meditation, guided visualisation, etc.  I like to use recordings with gentle music and an instructor's voice telling me what to do so I don't have to think about it.  I do my progressive muscle relaxation just lying in bed, and it usually helps my system to calm down so I can fall asleep.

[Dhyssop1]

The insomnia started the first night I stopped taking Remeron.  It had been helping me to fall asleep at night, even on the lower dose.  My anxiety, however, was not really controlled on it.  For me, having "controlled" anxiety would be not obsessing about my health 5 times a day.  Since I was having more negative reasons (high cholesterol, triglycerides, eye pressure --glaucoma) for quitting than positive for staying on it (sleep only), I decided to get off of it, with doctor's approval.   I do see a Psychologist and have been for  3 1/2 years.  Before her, I saw therapists off and on for 20 years, all related to anxiety.  I do listen to soothing music at bedtime, do deep breathing, some yoga, epsom salt baths, etc.  I feel like laughing everytime I read a magazine article that says to have a cup of tea and read a book to reduce anxiety.  The melatonin I took was 1.5mg.   I do try to avoid xanax unless my anxiety is peaking higher than 6, just to keep me from "going over the edge".  Currently, it's been fluctuating between 4-6.  Even on the Remeron/Paxil combo, it was holding around a 4-5.  I really don't want to up my Paxil dosage, but will if necessary, with doctor's recommendation.  Is it ever possible to be off meds?  I keep thinking if I never started on the Paxil 20 years ago, maybe I'd feel normal.  Maybe it screwed up my wiring.  

[Dhyssop1]

Thank you to all who reached out.  It helped.  

 

Songbird, thank you for the links.  They look helpful.

[Songbird]

You may have reduced the Paxil and the Remeron doses too quickly.  We recommend very slow tapering here, no more than 10% of current dose each time with holds of at least four weeks on each dose to let the body adjust to the dose change.  See:  why taper by 10% of my dosage

 

Can you provide more information on how you reduced your Paxil dose?  Did you go straight down from 30mg to 15mg six months ago and then straight down from 15mg to 10mg in January, or did you do smaller reductions over that time?  What was your anxiety like at 30mg and did your anxiety levels change after each drop?

[Dhyssop1]

Yes, I agree that I tapered too quickly.  My psychiatrist advised me.  But, he also told me I could stop Remeron at 3.25 and not have any withdrawals.  Grrrr.   After reading everyone else's tapering stories, I see that I went way too quickly.  I was experiencing anxiety and some stomach upset, but never put two and two together.  I thought it was just my workload that was causing me to feel that way.  Plus, I'm in menopause so my psychologist told me that was the reason for my symptoms.  When I was at 30 mg. Paxil (down from 45mg a couple of years ago), I was pretty good.  But it may have been the solid night's sleep I was getting with the Remeron.  I was tapering the Paxil at the same time as the Remeron.  Right now, my symptoms from the Remeron withdrawal include mild nausea/lack of appetite, restless sleep with about 5-6 hours per night, and about a level 5 anxiety.  I've modified my diet to include more omega-3 foods and no added sugar (other than fruits).  I realize it will be a slow process.  But as I said initially, God is helping me to persevere.  

 

[Songbird]

7 hours ago, Dhyssop1 said:

 I was tapering the Paxil at the same time as the Remeron. 

 

This makes it hard to tell what is from Paxil withdrawal and what is from Remeron withdrawal.  However, I suspect it may be a mixture of both.  If you are able to cope with your current symptoms you could hold your Paxil dose where it is now and stay there at least three months, maybe six months, to give your system the chance to adjust and stabilise after all the big changes.  If you are finding it very difficult to cope you could try reinstating a very small dose of Remeron (e.g. 1.5 or 2 mg) and see if that helps. 

 

I don't think it's a great idea to increase Paxil dose trying to cover Remeron withdrawal, but if you do decide to increase Paxil, it would be better to increase by only a small amount (e.g. go up to 12mg).  If the small increase hasn't helped enough after a few weeks, then you could try another small increase.  It's easier for your system to adjust to small changes (up or down).   Also, after 19 years on Paxil, it is high risk for poop out, and a big dose increase could cause problems. 

 

If you decide to make any changes, it's best to change only one thing at a time, and then wait a couple of weeks to see how that change affects you.  If you change more than one thing, you won't be able to tell what is causing anything. 

 

Here are some topics you may find helpful:

the rule of 3KIS - keep it simple keep it slow keep it stable

about reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

[Dhyssop1]

 Yes, I will try to give myself at least 3 months to adjust to just being on the 10mg. Paxil.  If I'm OK, I'll try to stay on that.  I had no idea how long it REALLY takes to wean from a drug.  Your taper chart is very helpful for me to see how the process works.  Thank you!  

[Dhyssop1]

Best Wishes to you too!  :)

[Dhyssop1]

Hi Hannah212,

The thing to remember is what everyone has been telling me -- take it SLOW.  That means reduce in VERY SMALL increments. Most experienced people suggest reducing by 10% every couple of weeks or per month and evaluating how you feel.  If you feel nauseated or develop insomnia, etc. they are signs you need to stabilize before reducing again or return to the previous dose for a bit.  This is something I learned after the fact.  My stopping dose was much too high.  I am 6 weeks off and still having withdrawal symptoms.  I believed my doctor who told me there would be no withdrawal and so never researched it first, like you are doing.  I commend you for that!  PLEASE, take it slow and avoid problems.  

In peace,

Dhyssop1

[Dhyssop1]

I agree.  My doctor assured me there'd be no withdrawal.  WRONG.  Thank goodness for forums like this one to help.  Your plan for weaning sounds reasonable.  

 

[Dhyssop1]

Hi, I know how it is with a husband/family member who doesn't "get it".  Mine tries to understand but unless someone as been there, it is hard.  It's good that you asked him to be more aware of mood changes.  If you go slowly, you may not have any.   A good thing for me about this time of the year is that I can go outside and pull weeds to help me relax in the fresh air.  Have a good weekend.

[Dhyssop1]

Hi Hannaht212,

I hope things are going well for you :)

 

 

[Dhyssop1]

Those could be withdrawal symptoms.  It sounds like a good idea to remain at the 33 for a second week.  A busy time with stressors (even good stressors like visitors) can be magnified when one doesn't get enough solid sleep.  Good to hear you are getting "all is well" moments.  They are important, like the "sun" breaking through.  

 

Have a good week!

[Hannaht212]

My Goodness ! I swear my doc is whacked !  He wrote an RX two weeks ago, for me, for 20 mg paxil with instructions to half the pills (to 10 mg).  Today, I saw him and said I was down to 33 mgs, and due to possible withdrawal effects, was staying at 33 another week,  and he said, "That is good, take it real slow."  I need no help to feel I am crazed !   One really must be their won advocate in these days of hurried medicine.   Just had to share this with you.  Have a great weekend! 

[Dhyssop1]

I hear ya!   I 'm not a doctor, but I feel like I have to play one in real life :)

 

 

[Dhyssop1]

Hi, Thank you for checking in.  First, no, I don't know of any med other than Paxil to try.  I've been trying to research them for myself, too, since I'm not sure Paxil is working for me any longer.  I've been on it for 19 years.  Second, I recently had bloodwork done and found out I've gone from underactive thyroid to overactive.  The fact that I was taking meds for underactive when I didn't need it also has been contributing to my extreme anxiety.  Primary doc has me off synthroid for now to see if I can stabilize.  We'll recheck blood in another month.  My weight loss as a result of Remeron withdrawal may have contributed to the change in thyroid function.  She's not sure.  

Enjoy your time away.    And cute bear quilt!

[Meimeiquest]

I think it’s really important to know if you have simple hypothyroidism with too much replacement therapy, or Hashimoto’s thyroiditis with too much replacement, or Graves’ disease (where it can go back and forth).  Hashimoto’s and Grave’s disease are autoimmune conditions.  One place for AI problems in general is Phoenix Helix.  There are several websites/integrative professionals that work with thyroid problems. 

[Idlehnds]

Hi Dhyssop1,

 

I had some health issues which caused my anxiety and made me get on all of this medicine in the first place...

1. I changed my diet.  I stopped eating anything white.  White bread, white rice, white sugar, etc.  and tried to focus on a plant based diet with a little meat.  

Fish oil, prebiotics all helped me lower my numbers. 

2. Spirituality helped calm me and helped me to understand that this isnt the end.  I found all religions had truth and especially the indian "Guru's" gravitated to me and I feel I found truth in that.  If you are interested look into Paramahansa Yogananda "The autobiography of a Yogi"

3. Find a therapist that focuses on teaching you the science of anxiety and how your body works.  Now when I have dumb worries or anxiety I can step above my emotions and realize "This is anxiety.  Your body is in fight or flight right now because your mind cannot differentiate between a thought and a real threat".

 

Not sure if this helps but I thought I would share what has truely helped me.

 

 

[Dhyssop1]

Thank you.  I'll look into it!  

 

[mammaP]

On 8/6/2018 at 12:41 AM, Hannaht212 said:

 Have you any safe suggestions of other antidepressants, or the like,  to use when Paxil is gone and something may still be needed ? 

We don't recommend or endorse any drugs here at SA. We are about helping people to get safely off drugs or cope with withdrawal. Asking for suggestions of drugs is considered drug shopping and could lead to a warning. There are many depression forums where people discuss the different drugs that may or may not help them.  We have some excellent topics on ways of coping with emotional symptoms.  While tapering it is good to read everything so that you will not feel a need for drugs.  Non drug ways of coping. 

20 hours ago, Dhyssop1 said:

 I've been trying to research them for myself, too, since I'm not sure Paxil is working for me any longer

It is very common for a drug to reach tolerance and no longer have any effect.  They can also turn paradoxical and cause depression and anxiety.  Sometimes these symptoms lessen as the dose lowers.  We all have to learn coping methods on this journey because there is no magic pill unfortunately.  Look at the symptoms and self care section, there are many topics about symptoms and how people deal with them.  

You will get there in the end, we all do! 

 

[Dhyssop1]

Thank you for the reminders. 

[manymoretodays]

I've moved a bunch of Hannah's posts to her introduction which can be found here:  Hannah212

It might make for a bit of confusing reading........yet so many of her posts were more pertinent to her own history and tapering right now.

[Hannaht212]

Is my signature ok now? I am on my phone and having difficulty moving through the site. 

[manymoretodays]

The link to your introduction is in the post above yours.  I'll answer over on your introduction.........which is here  Hannaht212