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Ladybug's Pax-hell Journey


ladybug

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Whatever worked to stop the pain is great! I'm very happy for you Grandma that Vb took the edge of it! It is horrible giving the years constant pain a true torture for anyone to endure. Well, my Vb level is above normal range for reasons I don't know so that makes it a mystery if VB is associated with my pain.

 

I want to mention again that I found each of my recent drop actually made things better in a zig zag way, an interesting finding validate ladybugs observation earlier also per some other ppl. Somehow for some ppl at some times it seems long hold can actually hurt more (example of my longest hold of 4months when many new and severe symptoms started, then getting better when I speed up cutting). Just in case this might be your case too as a reminder.

 

And my pain seems lessened a bit too since I went below 3mg.

 

So maybe you want to try to taper a bit faster see what happens?

 

Such an incredible learning! No one would ever believe unless with own experience.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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  • ladybug

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. I had to to tell a friend I couldn't attend their wedding because it's out of town and I wouldn't be able to sleep due to my insomnia issues..

. I have a hard time practicing acceptance.

I just read this again and missed some of what you said.  If it isn't too late re the wedding, that is something that doesn't come around again - so I would go and take a sleeping pill - just an idea.  Like I said before it is a balancing act, working out what to attend, not to go to, etc.

 

As for acceptance - it is so hard when you cannot see your way out and it seems hopeless.  Much easier when things are going better to have acceptance!

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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I have been trying to get off paroxetine for about eleven years.  My latest taper attempt has been going for over seven years so far.  The important thing is to keep the dose going in the right direction, however long it takes.  (((Hugs))) for you, Ladybug.  Be kind to yourself, that's also very important!

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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Thank you everyone!

 

Gran- Yes, I do still have stressors in my personal life despite not working, but I do think the job was harder on me than I thought. I applied to go back to school this fall to get a second degree in Accounting but now I'm thinking that is a crazy idea! I am turning 36 in a month and I think I am having some sort of crisis because my life is not AT ALL what I thought it would be at this age. Thought I would have a career, relationship, child, etc. I wish I wouldn't have started Paxil at such a young age (or at all!) On Paxil I just didn't care about anything, and when I started tapering and got to a low enough dose where I did start caring then I had WD to deal with.

 

I haven't been doing any relaxation exercises because I can't find any I enjoy doing. I'm open to suggestions!

 

Lex- I am glad resuming your taper has given you some improvements. I would LOVE to taper faster and I keep hoping that at some point I'm able to but it hasn't happened yet. I have been on this dose for six weeks and was planning on dropping today, but now that I have been experiencing increased symptoms like sleep issues, loss of appetite and more anxiety/DR than normal I don't think it's wise. My last couple of drops have only been half drops so could it be that is my problem? The drops weren't big enough and so I didn't get the improvement that I usually do after a hold? I really don't know anymore. I just know that this is a dose range I've been dreading since the start of my taper since I witnessed so many others having issues with it more than any other range. So if there was ever a time to err on the side of caution this is probably it. I'll re-evaluate after another week.

 

Songbird- Thank you so much, I know you feel the same frustrations as I do and it helps to know I'm not the only one. You and Gran are definitely paving the way for the rest of us turtle taperers. I know I do need to give myself a break. 40mg to 5mg is a huge accomplishment no matter how long it took. And I was someone who had WD even a few months into taking Paxil so I know my brain adapted quickly and completely. Perhaps that is why I've been so sensitive and had to go so slow. That is something beyond my control so I shouldn't beat myself up about it. I'm doing what I can. It's going to take as long as it takes.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Hi Ladybug,

 

"I applied to go back to school this fall to get a second degree in Accounting but now I'm thinking that is a crazy idea!"

 

What is so crazy about that?  I went to college to learn computers (including opening them up!!!) when I was 44 and accounting when I was 49.

 

"I am turning 36 in a month and I think I am having some sort of crisis because my life is not AT ALL what I thought it would be at this age."

 

I think a lot of people go through this, both men and women.  I also think that many (if not most) people's lives don't turn out the way they expect them to.  If our life hasn't turned out as well as we had anticipated this can be very disappointing and can make us feel sad and angry and I believe that we go through a grieving period when we realise this.  Maybe going to see a therapist might be a good idea.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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When I was in Film School we were taught that "there is the film you imagine, the film you write, and the film you finally produce".  The same is true with life "the life you dream, the life you plan, and the life you live".  If you can have elements of the first and second in the third then you're a success.  It's all about being content with what you have and making it your own and not about trying to force something that isn't going to happen.

 

I went back to school and got my engineering degree at 36.  It gave me the basis for my second and third careers.  Not the glamorous show business career I stated with, but it paid for a beautiful house in a beautiful neighborhood, new and decent used cars as needed, foreign travel and experiences I wouldn't trade anything for. Now that I'm ending my third career, among other things I'll be dabbling back in show biz because I enjoy it. It can seem like a trite saying but it's so true: "life isn't about the destination, it's about the twists and turns of the path along the way." He who has the most toys in the end doesn't win, it's the one who can slay a cloud dragon with a stick that does.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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I didn't mean crazy because of my age really but rather because it seems like a major that will be stressful and where I will have to be on top of my game mentally to succeed. Not exactly fit for someone going through WD is my point. I've been blessed so far by not having an issue with brain fog but that doesn't mean it will always be that way so I guess I'm just pondering the "what ifs" like I am prone to do.

 

As for feeling like my life isn't how I expected it to be it's not like I had some high expectations for myself. I'm just comparing myself to friends my age, etc. How things might have turned out if I'd never taken this drug. Who know maybe things would have been the same.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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I haven't been doing any relaxation exercises because I can't find any I enjoy doing. I'm open to suggestions!

My favourite is David Swenson's "Just Relax" yoga DVD.  It's great if you find it difficult to just lie down and relax, as the first section involves gentle movements, which begins to calm the body, and then it moves on to progressive muscle relaxation and guided visualisation.  I also created some relaxation exercise recordings of my own:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10981-relaxation-exercises/

 

What is it that you do or don't enjoy about them, Ladybug?  I personally prefer them to have gentle background music, with someone giving instructions in a calm, gentle voice.  One of the things I love about David's DVD (which doesn't actually have background music, although there is a section of music towards the end), is that I find the sound of his voice very soothing.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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I have SO much pain since stopping paxil cold turkey 2 yrs ago. I have waves of it where some weeks are way worse. I'm only 36 so to be hobbling and barely able to walk is a real downer!

I read that paxil and other SSRI'S are working on am inflammatory response, so that would make sense why I'm suddenly so full of inflammation. I got steadily worse the last few years I was on it.

Paxil 20mg from 1998-2011 

Paxil 40mg from 2011-2012 while experiencing poopout

October 2013 quit cold turkey

Oct-mid Nov 2013 great window

Late November WD nightmare 

Windows and waves pattern 

Now: 28 months cold turkey...doing decent learning to deal with the windows/waves pattern fighting it every step of the way. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have SO much pain since stopping paxil cold turkey 2 yrs ago. I have waves of it where some weeks are way worse. I'm only 36 so to be hobbling and barely able to walk is a real downer!

I read that paxil and other SSRI'S are working on am inflammatory response, so that would make sense why I'm suddenly so full of inflammation. I got steadily worse the last few years I was on it.

 

I am so sorry to hear this CTmama. :( I am the same age and these recent headaches have really made empathize with anyone who has chronic pain. I definitely agree that tapering/stopping these drugs can trigger inflammation. I know fish oil is always recommended on this site, so I don't know if you are already taking it but I know it's really good for inflammation. I really hope you start to see some improvement in that area soon. I've read a bit of your journal and I actually think you are doing alright for someone who CT'ed. The fact that you have definite windows so early on is a good sign!

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Well I'm still holding as I just don't feel comfortable enough to drop yet. Still experiencing heightened symptoms, but also have periods of feeling good so that is promising. One strange new symptom is that even though I am experiencing more anxiety than WDnormal it comes with a weird restlessness. The need to GO, because I just feel worse if I sit there and try to relax. As a result I must have gone out with friends 4 times last week which is a record no doubt. For the most part it went well and if nothing it's great exposure therapy. I've also returned to the brutal world of online dating. Had two dates recently. Just being able to do something like that is HUGE considering one of the major reasons I went on Paxil was for social anxiety! So that feels good. I doubt anything will come out of it but it's something to do I guess. Other than that, I'm just trudging on and gathering the courage for the next drop which will finally put me in the 4's. I can't believe it. Slowly but surely....

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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I'm holding too, Ladybug.  Good on you for getting out and doing stuff.  I know what you mean about feeling restless and unable to relax - I've found keeping myself busy quite helpful too.  Going below 5mg is a big milestone - well it was for me.  Go turtles!!

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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Thanks, Songbird! It's absolutely a huge milestone for me too.

 

Wanted to be more specific about my symptoms lately so I can have a record of them.

 

1. Heightened physical anxiety: Having periods where I feel an inner tension, like a rubberband about to snap. Also feeling a sort of fight or flight response, like I want to run away or something but I can't. This is mild thankfully. Akathisia is my biggest fear so I hate having feelings like this. And of course the feeling of being more anxious trying to sit and relax so I just busy myself like Songbird said.

 

2. Mental anxiety is the same as always although I do have moments of working myself up about something, but it doesn't last too long.

 

3. DR is definitely heightened. I always have some sort of DR but everything seems even more off than normal and at it's worst I feel as if in a dream and barely connected to my surroundings.

 

4. Sleep issues. For a week or two it was taking me hours to fall asleep and I would wake up after a couple of hours and it would take me another few hours to fall back asleep. This has gotten better the past few days.

 

5. Lack of appetite. During the same time I had little desire to eat and when I was able to force myself I got full quickly. This was a little worrying but now that I am heading back into PMS mode my appetite has shot up of course. Also, more sensitive to sugar than usual with even small amounts causing physical anxiety.

 

6. Being more jerkier/twitchier than normal. Yesterday I had at least 6 jerks. This is another thing that worries me since my worst case scenario brain goes automatically to Tardive Dyskinesia. I've been experiencing more jerks/twitches the past couple of months but I think this ramp up could also be due to PMS.

 

7. Headaches. One good thing is that in the past week the headaches improved significantly and I don't think I even had one. The last one I had was almost two weeks ago and it lasted over 24 hours. Not fun. I think I've mentioned before that I always feel better after ovulation and that held true for this month. The fact that I haven't had any headaches since ovulation makes me think they are hormonal in nature.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Thanks for the update and sorry things are not as good as they might be, but I think the 5mg range is extremely difficult.  I think you are wise to sit for a bit and it seems to have improved the insomnia.  My anxiety was negligible until I got to 5.1 when  it got very bad and then even worse at 4.6mg when I had to sit for 6 months because all symptoms ramped up sky high.

 

It is great you are getting out and about.  How does that affect your anxiety and insomnia?  I know that if I did that they would be worse afterwards.  My daughter tried on-line dating but found they were all losers and then met the man of her dreams at work!  I really hope you can meet someone nice, but in the meantime, at least you can get to go out for coffee or something.  Congratulations too, that you can do this now without the help of an a/d!

 

How long would the next course be if you did it?  Can you do it at your own leisure, because if you can, it would be something extra under your belt and wouldn't go astray and give you something to focus on.  I think we need something to do that we enjoy during this w/d trial.  I have always had my garden and blessed with a husband that helps me with it now.

 

Hey, yes, your next drop will put you in the 4's!  Like Songbird, I felt this was a HUGE MILESTONE and I felt some relief for at least making it that far.  Before that, I always felt despondent at never getting off.  I had no hope of getting there, but now I can see the end in sight which also gives me some hope. 

 

GO TURTLES, GO! :D

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, this does seem to be a difficult dose range and one I have dreaded since I began my taper! It's important for me to be careful at this stage, but at the same time I'm so frustrated with how long this taper is going that I find myself being riskier than in the past. For instance I had a beer a few weeks ago lol. That's me being CRAZY!!

 

So a few days after this post I think I improved. Started sleeping better, feeling good mentally. Although I still feel alright mentally, I'm in another insomnia wave. Over a week ago I got a surge in motivation and started exercising almost daily and maybe that is what triggered it. It's so discouraging though because am I really not expected to be able to exercise for 10+ years?! I wasn't even doing strenuous stuff, just some yoga, crunches and a small bit of cardio. I'm also in that post period time which is usually never a good time for me, so it could be hormonal too. Basically it takes me hours to fall asleep and then I wake up frequently. I was getting 9 broken hours but now I'm getting 4-6 VERY broken hours and this has been going on for 4 nights now. I'm tired, my bday is tomorrow and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be crap. Oh well I will try to enjoy it as best I can.

 

Been at this dose for 10 weeks now and I have no idea whether to hold even longer or try a drop.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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It is great you are getting out and about.  How does that affect your anxiety and insomnia?  I know that if I did that they would be worse afterwards.  My daughter tried on-line dating but found they were all losers and then met the man of her dreams at work!  I really hope you can meet someone nice, but in the meantime, at least you can get to go out for coffee or something.  Congratulations too, that you can do this now without the help of an a/d!

Thankfully, it doesn't seem to affect it too badly. I remember a few years ago if I would go out and be social I wouldn't be able to sleep AT ALL the night after. Like zero sleep. Now, it's a little more difficult to fall asleep but it at least happens. I'd like to find someone nice to but I'm not holding my breath. :lol:

 

How long would the next course be if you did it?  Can you do it at your own leisure, because if you can, it would be something extra under your belt and wouldn't go astray and give you something to focus on.  I think we need something to do that we enjoy during this w/d trial.  I have always had my garden and blessed with a husband that helps me with it now.

 

I've been accepted into the accounting program, so I guess I'm going back to school this fall. I'm worried about all the added stress. Last time my studies were online, but these are in person. Last time, I studied Psychology which I found easy but this is something that might prove more difficult. If most of my courses transfer it shouldn't take more than 3 years, hopefully 2. I could be making a huge mistake WD wise, but I'm sick and tired of letting WD dictate every damn thing I do.

 

 

Hey, yes, your next drop will put you in the 4's!  Like Songbird, I felt this was a HUGE MILESTONE and I felt some relief for at least making it that far.  Before that, I always felt despondent at never getting off.  I had no hope of getting there, but now I can see the end in sight which also gives me some hope. 

 

I'm so glad you are close to enough to see the finish line!! I'm still in the despondent stage and can't wait until I get where you are.

GO TURTLES, GO! :D

Love this! Thinking of our fellow turtle, Songbird and hope she is doing ok. <3

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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I didn't see your response to me a while back, sorry about that. Yes the pain is terrible and I did take fish oil for some time and then forgot to take it and have it sitting in my cupboard doing me no good so thanks for the reminder, I'll begin that again today.

I've been having a real break up of hourly windows and waves which sucks because there is no predictability in that.

29 months out from the cold turkey, I keep reading success stories that people start noticing huge differences by 34 months or 38 etc....I am praying to be one of them. I agree, for having gone cold turkey, I have done better than most.

Paxil 20mg from 1998-2011 

Paxil 40mg from 2011-2012 while experiencing poopout

October 2013 quit cold turkey

Oct-mid Nov 2013 great window

Late November WD nightmare 

Windows and waves pattern 

Now: 28 months cold turkey...doing decent learning to deal with the windows/waves pattern fighting it every step of the way. 

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Congratulations on having the courage and strength to go back to study and I hope and pray you cope with it and do well, as I'm sure you will, you a bright girl.  I fully understand your resentment of the w/d dictating how to live!  I blow back and forth between thinking I'll do this and that and get out more, and so on, only to find I can't do it and then back to not trying and then each year try again... and so on!  One of the things I have been teeing up for 3 years in a row now is to go and help a friend home-school her kids and now, for year 4 I am thinking of doing it again, but this time I feel more confident because I have fewer headaches.  Anyway, I think if we at least try and do what we can, that is what is important.

 

I hope you will let us now if you do happen to find someone decent on your dates!  In the meantime, just enjoy the outings and practice your social skills and meeting new people!

 

You had a beer!  What effect did it have?  Any?  did you enjoy it?

 

Please send those 9 hours sleep over my way!  It has been years now of taking 2 hours to get to sleep and sleeping only 2 hours and just recently 1.5 hours at a time and then it takes ages each time to get back to sleep.  I feel that if I could get a decent nights sleep I would cope so much better during the day.   Do you notice it affects your days afterwards?

 

What have you noticed this time after 10weeks?  Things getting better, worse or same?  Sounds like sleep has gotten worse. 

 

Praying for you still x

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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Congratulations on having the courage and strength to go back to study and I hope and pray you cope with it and do well, as I'm sure you will, you a bright girl.  I fully understand your resentment of the w/d dictating how to live!  I blow back and forth between thinking I'll do this and that and get out more, and so on, only to find I can't do it and then back to not trying and then each year try again... and so on!  One of the things I have been teeing up for 3 years in a row now is to go and help a friend home-school her kids and now, for year 4 I am thinking of doing it again, but this time I feel more confident because I have fewer headaches.  Anyway, I think if we at least try and do what we can, that is what is important.

 

Thank you, Gran. I hope this is the year that you are able to do the home-schooling thing. I'm so, so glad the headaches have improved for you. I don't know how you did that so long. My headaches have become less frequent lately thank God! They were bad for a while and now I'm wondering if it was the stress of the job? You are one tough lady! And yes trying is what is most important. Last night was the worst night so far, about 3 hours not in a row. I was so angry and depressed that this damn drug was going to ruin another bday for me. I've had these tickets for a while to see a band I've been wanting to see for so long. I felt anxious, stomach upset, and gross DR and dread. But I forced myself to go and once I got around my friends, I began to enjoy myself and ended up having a great time! If I had cancelled like I sometimes do I would have missed out.

 

I hope you will let us now if you do happen to find someone decent on your dates!  In the meantime, just enjoy the outings and practice your social skills and meeting new people!

 

I will definitely let you know! Someone asked for my number at the show and I actually gave it to them. That has never happened to me actually. I used to be such a terribly shy person and like I said earlier, it's one of the reasons I went on Paxil. What a change!

 

You had a beer!  What effect did it have?  Any?  did you enjoy it?

 

I think I possibly got a slight buzz and I can't say for sure if it had a negative effect after. I thought it might have, but my symptoms/waves are so random now it's hard to know for sure. I haven't been able to drink for 6 years now and it's really annoying since everyone around me drinks socially, etc. I've gotten used to it though, but sometimes I just want to be "normal" and have a drink. Of course I would be compelled to test dangerous waters in a difficult dose range. Haha. I stuck to water tonight because no way am I going to risk making a wave worse. Any time I take sips of alcohol, it's only when I'm in a window.

 

Please send those 9 hours sleep over my way!  It has been years now of taking 2 hours to get to sleep and sleeping only 2 hours and just recently 1.5 hours at a time and then it takes ages each time to get back to sleep.  I feel that if I could get a decent nights sleep I would cope so much better during the day.   Do you notice it affects your days afterwards?

 

I can't believe you have been sleeping like this for years! How do you do it?? What you're describing is exactly how it's been for me. Last night it was 4 hours to fall asleep, asleep for an hour, up for two hours, asleep for an hour, then up for two and then asleep for one more hour and that's it. I can handle one or two nights of bad sleep a week (I was always unable to sleep the night before going into the office and would usually go to work on 0-3 hours) but every night and it really starts to wear on you. I just feel exhausted and it affects my stomach, my anxiety, I get cranky, etc. I really pray that this is the next symptom to resolve for you. You are a warrior, Gran!

 

What have you noticed this time after 10weeks?  Things getting better, worse or same?  Sounds like sleep has gotten worse. 

 

Yes, it seems the sleep has gotten worse, but I don't even know if it's related to the drop. I mentioned earlier how I started doing some daily exercise so perhaps that was the trigger. Also, this is always my worst time hormone wise so it could be that as well.  My symptoms really seem to revolve more around my cycle than they do the drops. However, I'm very bad at remembering that's why I've recently started keeping a symptom journal like you do. Definitely not going to think of dropping until sleep improves.

 

Praying for you still x

I appreciate it so much, I'll be praying for you as well. ((HUGS))

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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I am mighty pleased to say that headaches for April numbered 4!  This average 1 p/w and is great!  I can't believe how I coped before (I was getting 20 a month, incl. migraines.)

 

That is interesting that you still went - good on you, that is also very courageous.  I know that with my local friend I meet with weekly (the only one for last 4.5years) there were days I sure didn't want to go, but because I only kept that 1 local friend, I forced myself to go and there were days I wished I hadn't, but there were also days I was glad I did go.  As I listen more to Mama Joyce, I realise we are not to let our feelings dictate to us all the time, but this can be difficult when you are in pain.  Anyway, I'm so glad you went and that you enjoyed it, as you would think that your pleasure would create a more "healing" environment for your CNS.

 

What a change, alright, that you are becoming so confident socially, but then again you have certainly matured so much throughout this w/d process.  Keep us informed!  My prayers are for you to find the right man and get married and have that family, for there is nothing so rewarding in this life as those two things.

 

It is a wonder you can still drink alcohol, that is why I asked if you enjoyed it.  I haven't had a wine since I started super-slow taper, but I don't miss it now and probably wouldn't care if I never had another drink.  I used to drink beer like a fish until I got pregnant and then i couldn't stand it.  After the baby was born, I tried to have a drink and it was disgusting, so never touched beer since!  You are sensible not to do it too often.  Can you have fruit juice instead of water or is the sugar too stimulating?

 

Well that is why I resorted to taking something on a weekly basis so i got some sleep at least once a week, but I have been trying to not do that recently.  I find my afternoon nap really helps me get through the rest of the day when I nod off for only 5-15mins but it sure helps.  Sometimes I have a mid-morning rest, no nap, but find just that hour rest helps get through the day too - but you get nothing done - but that's another story!

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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I find it hard to remember what I am like from one day to the next, let alone week to week, so I have to keep a journal.  I am glad I have, as I now compare what I was like before that 6 month hold in 2014 and if I am better - then that is good!  I thought this week was pretty crap, but by comparing symptoms, I actually had a better week than the previous one!

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

Still holding! Over 12 weeks now at this dose. I'm scared to drop again because of the new symptom that has popped up. It's a feeling of chills/shivers/creepy crawlies/I don't know what the heck. But it's been almost all day every day for the past couple of weeks now. I guess it's what's known as paresthesia. I experimented the week of my bday and had some alcohol but it was probably only one drink but after that it got much worse. I've been trying to experiment with small amounts of alcohol (less than one drink) for over a year now and most of the time it's ok but this time it was not and of course I should have known better considering I was already in an anxious wave at the time. Lesson learned.

 

So I don't know when this symptom is going to go or if it is something I will have to deal with from now but I know I HATE it! Don't you love it when a new symptom pops up and makes you wish for your old symptoms? "You thought THAT was bad??" I've had other distressing symptoms come and go so I hope it's the same for this one. It's just so hard to know when to push on with your taper despite how you are feeling. In the past I've felt better with drops, but how do I know that will happen this time? Ever since I began this taper years and years ago I knew that 5mg to 0 would be the hardest part and because of that it's the range I've been dreading. So if you think I was overly cautious before!! I also have to say that reading of the crashes of people I looked up to for years on the forums is incredibly disheartening. If they can't do it what chance do I have? Yeah, I'm in pity party mode.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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You can do it Ladybug.

Anyway whats so wrong with maybe doing a super long hold until symptoms recede...just a thought.

 

I also am saddened at the recent struggles of prior place heroes.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Wow Ladybug, you are at 5 mg, I didn't realize! Congratulations! I understand your worry about this dose range, but I hate to see you worry too much. When you think about all the people who have crashed below 5 mg, you will probably realize that not one of them was going as slowly as you are. I really believe that how you do at any given dose range has EVERYTHING to do with how you tapered down to that dose. It's not really about the dose range itself. By tapering as slowly as you have, you bought yourself insurance for the future, and you're not likely to run into the same problems as those of us who were less cautious. I have total confidence that you can do this.

Trying to get off Paxil since 2007. Was tapering by 0.1 mg every 4-5 weeks. Had awful crash in November 2015 at .5 mg; updosed gradually to 2 mg. 

 

Doing better and tapering again, much slower this time.  2016: Dropped from 2 mg to 1.62 mg.  2017:  1.62 mg to 1.2 mg. 2018: 1.2 mg to .76 mg. 2019: .76 mg to .56 mg. 2020: .56 mg to .33 mg. 2021: .33 mg to .13 mg. 2022: .13 mg to .03 mg. 6/12/23 .002 mg. OFF PAXIL 9/4/23

 

Started Klonopin in November 2015 to deal with crash. 1/10/16 started milk titration taper from .5 mg. Finished taper 12/6/17. Still take Klonopin for agoraphobia 2 - 3 times a week. 

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Sending hugs to you ladybug!

I know exactly how you feel each time new symptoms flare up! It feels the hell has no bottom and a constant puzzle and struggle. I have the pins and needles all these years and more like knifing when it gets bad, I think what you got is a lighter version of that.

 

Anything else you think might be different lately that may contribute to the new symptoms? I started having many new symptoms since last Sep. which I was puzzled for months until recently I suddenly linked one day of accidental dose increase right before that. I now know for sure I got severe dose increase reaction and my system has been in shock ever since.

 

I hope they will go away soon and you can resume your tapering without further hiccups.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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You can do it Ladybug.

Anyway whats so wrong with maybe doing a super long hold until symptoms recede...just a thought.

 

I also am saddened at the recent struggles of prior place heroes.

 

Thank you, NZ! And I agree that it is good to take periodic long holds every so often even if you are going super slow like I am.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

Link to comment

Wow Ladybug, you are at 5 mg, I didn't realize! Congratulations! I understand your worry about this dose range, but I hate to see you worry too much. When you think about all the people who have crashed below 5 mg, you will probably realize that not one of them was going as slowly as you are. I really believe that how you do at any given dose range has EVERYTHING to do with how you tapered down to that dose. It's not really about the dose range itself. By tapering as slowly as you have, you bought yourself insurance for the future, and you're not likely to run into the same problems as those of us who were less cautious. I have total confidence that you can do this.

 

Thank you, Rach! Your confidence in me means a lot. I guess I used to think the same but then when Songbird crashed I felt like it could happen even when doing everything right and that's what is so scary. She was going as slow if not slower than me. Although she did say that she thinks it wasn't the taper per se but rather WD made her sensitive to stress and it became too much. I hope she is doing better. She (and you) are a couple of my taper heroes! I hope you are feeling better and the benzo taper is going well. <3

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Sending hugs to you ladybug!

I know exactly how you feel each time new symptoms flare up! It feels the hell has no bottom and a constant puzzle and struggle. I have the pins and needles all these years and more like knifing when it gets bad, I think what you got is a lighter version of that.

 

Anything else you think might be different lately that may contribute to the new symptoms? I started having many new symptoms since last Sep. which I was puzzled for months until recently I suddenly linked one day of accidental dose increase right before that. I now know for sure I got severe dose increase reaction and my system has been in shock ever since.

 

I hope they will go away soon and you can resume your tapering without further hiccups.

 

Sending hugs right back! I am so sorry to hear you are dealing with so much worse. This feeling is so hard to describe, it's not really on the skin, it's like under the skin and inside. It's like the feeling right before you shiver or shudder but it's near constant. The nerves also feel raw and excited if that makes sense. But I imagine pain is much worse. I'm sure if I had the needling I would then wish I could go back to just shivers! Are you still seeing improvements with drops? I need to take a look at your journal. I hope so.

 

I can't tie this new symptom to anything I've done differently. No accidental dose changes, etc. Thankfully, I have finally started a symptom journal so hopefully that will help me in the future.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Still holding! Over 12 weeks now at this dose.

You are doing the right thing, this is sensible, especially with new symptoms.

I'm scared to drop again because of the new symptom that has popped up.

I think it is good to feel confident about tapering, so you will know when that is.

It's a feeling of chills/shivers/creepy crawlies/I don't know what the heck. But it's been almost all day every day for the past couple of weeks now. I guess it's what's known as paresthesia.

Not sure if it's the same, but I used to wake up feeling like death/icy cold, but it would go away the minute I woke up, within seconds.  It doesn't sound like that.

The crawlles might be what I call the prickles.  It is like someone putting stinging nettles on me in one place, then another, then another.  This year has been the worst year ever for that and is like torture.  I used to get it now and then but recently when it comes it has been all day.  I will have to look up what parathesia is!

I experimented the week of my bday and had some alcohol but it was probably only one drink but after that it got much worse. I've been trying to experiment with small amounts of alcohol (less than one drink) for over a year now and most of the time it's ok but this time it was not and of course I should have known better considering I was already in an anxious wave at the time. Lesson learned.

Isn't alcohol stimulating and best avoided?  I think the crawlies are probably a result from over-stimulation of the tiny nerve endings in the skin.  I just rememered when I started tapering, I got them regularly in my scalp and thought I had head lice, it was so freaky!

So I don't know when this symptom is going to go or if it is something I will have to deal with from now but I know I HATE it! Don't you love it when a new symptom pops up and makes you wish for your old symptoms? "You thought THAT was bad??" I've had other distressing symptoms come and go so I hope it's the same for this one.

I suspect it will go - in the meantime, relax, stay calm, do your breathing/relaxation exercises - anything to calm the nerves down.

It's just so hard to know when to push on with your taper despite how you are feeling. In the past I've felt better with drops, but how do I know that will happen this time?

You could make a plan perhaps - give yourself another week and so how you are and then drop anyway... your plan ... you make it.

Ever since I began this taper years and years ago I knew that 5mg to 0 would be the hardest part and because of that it's the range I've been dreading. So if you think I was overly cautious before!! I also have to say that reading of the crashes of people I looked up to for years on the forums is incredibly disheartening. If they can't do it what chance do I have? Yeah, I'm in pity party mode.

We all feel sorry for ourselves, that's pretty normal.  It does get discouraging, but try not to let it get hold of you and enslave you with depression!  Tomorrow you could feel a whole lot different.  Oh, and another thing I discovered is that when we get "new symptoms" it really can throw you.  After all, you wouldn't expect after years and years to get new symptoms would you.  For that reason I think we often go into panic mode, which can make symptoms even worse.  I used to think "it couldn't get any worse" and IT DID!  So I don't say that anymore!! lol

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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So good to hear your update Lady bug, I have been thinking about you and wondering how you were and about to post to you. 

 

You probably know this, but as for when to taper, I use this method as a guide (usually):

I journal all my symptoms every day and do an update each week.

I can see then, at a glance how I am from week to week.

I like to be in the same place I was when I began the taper in week 1 or better.

 

However, as we all now, w/d is not predictable and sometimes you have to adapt.  There have been times I was in a worse place and tapered anyway and the following week was better.  Other times I did this and got worse!

 

Like Rachelina said it is often what has gone on before this dose in other drops and other factors like outside stress, stimulants, etc.

 

Have the headaches kept away?

 

You are going good and slow, so I have faith you will be okay and don't need to worry!  Holding for 12 weeks can only give you some credit in the bank and you may well find the next taper will be so much easier as a result, so it isn't wasted.

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

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It's a feeling of chills/shivers/creepy crawlies/I don't know what the heck. But it's been almost all day every day for the past couple of weeks now. I guess it's what's known as paresthesia.

Not sure if it's the same, but I used to wake up feeling like death/icy cold, but it would go away the minute I woke up, within seconds.  It doesn't sound like that.

The crawlles might be what I call the prickles.  It is like someone putting stinging nettles on me in one place, then another, then another.  This year has been the worst year ever for that and is like torture.  I used to get it now and then but recently when it comes it has been all day.  I will have to look up what parathesia is!

 

That is the strange thing is that it's not feeling ON my skin, but rather internal. Such a hard feeling to describe, but in the Paresthesia thread here someone mentioned it was like the feeling you get when someone scratches their nails on a chalkboard. Like a shudder but not actually shuddering. If there's a thread about it, it must be WD! Haha.

 

 

I experimented the week of my bday and had some alcohol but it was probably only one drink but after that it got much worse. I've been trying to experiment with small amounts of alcohol (less than one drink) for over a year now and most of the time it's ok but this time it was not and of course I should have known better considering I was already in an anxious wave at the time. Lesson learned.

Isn't alcohol stimulating and best avoided?  I think the crawlies are probably a result from over-stimulation of the tiny nerve endings in the skin.  I just rememered when I started tapering, I got them regularly in my scalp and thought I had head lice, it was so freaky!

 

Alcohol is a nervous system depressant I think, but either way it's not good in WD. I have heard of some people who are able to get away with 1-2 drinks every once in a while so I was hoping I could be one of those lucky ones. Guess not. It all has to do with my hating that I can't just be normal so I get fed up and give in to temptation and then pay for it.

 

Ever since I began this taper years and years ago I knew that 5mg to 0 would be the hardest part and because of that it's the range I've been dreading. So if you think I was overly cautious before!! I also have to say that reading of the crashes of people I looked up to for years on the forums is incredibly disheartening. If they can't do it what chance do I have? Yeah, I'm in pity party mode.

We all feel sorry for ourselves, that's pretty normal.  It does get discouraging, but try not to let it get hold of you and enslave you with depression!  Tomorrow you could feel a whole lot different.  Oh, and another thing I discovered is that when we get "new symptoms" it really can throw you.  After all, you wouldn't expect after years and years to get new symptoms would you.  For that reason I think we often go into panic mode, which can make symptoms even worse.  I used to think "it couldn't get any worse" and IT DID!  So I don't say that anymore!! lol

 

Yes, I guess it's a trade off. Even though it's scary that symptoms can pop up out of nowhere, they can also just as suddenly disappear. I remember I was getting constant butterflies and stomach drops for over three months and then all of a sudden it just went away. I've had similar experiences with other symptoms as well.  And yes I think this has taught me that no matter how bad I think one symptom is II need to be thankful because I could get a symptom that makes the current one feel like a vacation. And yes after so many years of cautious tapering and avoiding stuff I'm supposed to avoid I expect to have current symptoms improve, not get brand new ones! That's the rollercoaster of WD for you.

 

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

Link to comment

So good to hear your update Lady bug, I have been thinking about you and wondering how you were and about to post to you. 

 

You probably know this, but as for when to taper, I use this method as a guide (usually):

I journal all my symptoms every day and do an update each week.

I can see then, at a glance how I am from week to week.

I like to be in the same place I was when I began the taper in week 1 or better.

 

However, as we all now, w/d is not predictable and sometimes you have to adapt.  There have been times I was in a worse place and tapered anyway and the following week was better.  Other times I did this and got worse!

 

Like Rachelina said it is often what has gone on before this dose in other drops and other factors like outside stress, stimulants, etc.

 

Have the headaches kept away?

 

You are going good and slow, so I have faith you will be okay and don't need to worry!  Holding for 12 weeks can only give you some credit in the bank and you may well find the next taper will be so much easier as a result, so it isn't wasted.

 

Thank you, Gran! I have followed your example and finally started a symptom journal of my own. I just need to come up with a rating system so I can gauge improvements, etc. I don't know if I should do a total symptom rating or individual rating. Hmm.

 

Thankfully the headaches have improved. I'm still not sure what triggered them, whether it was stress from work or working on the computer all day. I did pick up my Mandala coloring book the other night and then the next day I noticed I had a headache. I wore the glasses I was prescribed while coloring, but perhaps it still causes eye strain to focus on such detail for long periods of time. I got the coloring books in December and my headaches started sometime in January I think. So much for a stress reliever! Probably just a coincidence haha.

 

I like the idea of holds as credit in the bank. :) I've basically given up the idea of getting off by a certain amount of time so why not take as many holds as I need. I've been on this drug half my life now. It's mind boggling. But it really puts it into perspective of how used to this drug my brain is so I need to "sneak" off basically lol. Don't make any sudden moves!

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Yes, it's not only on the skin. It is from deep down inside with a soul shaking power. I have been trying so hard in years to figure out if it's triggered by dose reduction or drug reaction, and eventually sensed the pattern with a more steady tapering schedule. It seems always the worst on the 4th day after each tiny drop. This has been the most torturing symptom for me although the brain dead can be more disabling. When I google, it says it is caused by nerve damage. I only hope it won't be permenant.

 

I have to say my overall situation is worse with tapering. But I have no choice as I developed resistance ( severe reaction to dosing with different set of symptoms, very disabling although not as torturous ) since the one accidental dose increase. I'm dancing between the two evils using the tapering. I can't hold long anymore as drug reaction gets too strong so have to cut 1.5% every 7-10 days

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Yes, it's not only on the skin. It is from deep down inside with a soul shaking power. I have been trying so hard in years to figure out if it's triggered by dose reduction or drug reaction, and eventually sensed the pattern with a more steady tapering schedule. It seems always the worst on the 4th day after each tiny drop. This has been the most torturing symptom for me although the brain dead can be more disabling. When I google, it says it is caused by nerve damage. I only hope it won't be permenant.

 

I have to say my overall situation is worse with tapering. But I have no choice as I developed resistance ( severe reaction to dosing with different set of symptoms, very disabling although not as torturous ) since the one accidental dose increase. I'm dancing between the two evils using the tapering. I can't hold long anymore as drug reaction gets too strong so have to cut 1.5% every 7-10 days

 

That sounds awful, I'm sorry. :( I definitely do not think you should be worried about nerve damage. I have seen many people over the years with strange symptoms that seem to involve the nerves and they have healed. Dr. Google definitely likes to scare us sometimes. Once I entered my symptoms into the WebMd Symptom checker and it said I possibly had bubonic plague haha. I think it is in your favor that you haven't been on the drug all that long. So many of us have been on 10, 15, 20+ years so 7 years seems almost like short term use to me, although I'm sure it feels different for you. I've seen people who tapered quickly from 10 years use, heal after one year. You just never know, so keep on believing that you will be a success story!

 

I know when I went through a very bad patch 6 years ago I was terrified I too had become intolerant of the drug because I felt better when I reduced but then it would quickly get bad again. So for a few months I was tapering 4-6% every two weeks! You can see from my signature how conservative my taper has been for the most part so of course I was scared to taper this fast. Eventually I was able to hold longer and things evened out. So you can see my fear of intolerance was just that: a fear. I believe it may be and pray it is the same for you. Also, in my case, I think part of it was due to the fact that I had updosed at the beginning of the wave. While it helped initially it seemed to make it worse after a couple of weeks so it's my theory that updoses no longer benefit me and perhaps that's why I began to feel better as I got lower in dose. I had updosed to 12 mg and when I got down to 10 is when the windows finally became longer than the waves. Perhaps the same thing is happening with you and you will begin to improve as you get lower. The good news is even though you are having to taper more often, it is still a low enough percentage that you are still under the 10% a month maximum that is recommended. I think you are doing great. :) ((HUGS))

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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Oh, ladybug, what you shared with me is invaluable! Thank you so much for that!! Your experience with getting better by reducing dose was the first mind opener to me and how I realized my intolerance to the drug! Yes, I hope at some point down the road I will gphave the peace with this poison and can take breaks from tapering.

 

We are at the same dosage considering that lex is about twice powerful to pixil. I'm at 2.5mg now. Since I have to taper anyway so I can test the water first see how it goes. Like grandmaD said, you are saving credits by holding long may just hold a bit longer see how I will be doing under this tricky dose.

 

I was also saddened by songbirds situation and a few other survivors who were hit again far from the original recovery, but as we all learned so well that each individual is so different so let's try not to anticipate the worst.

 

My sincere appreciation to your kindest encouragement! It made me feel more hopeful thinking survivors who was on meds longer than me, even I know each case is so unique and so far mine is not the lucky one.

 

Really hope you get a nice big window very soon, I believe it's right at the corner!

 

Hugs!!

Lex

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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Oh no.....not Songbird. I didn't know.  You're right, that's discouraging.....this damn drug. It's true though, withdrawal destroys our resilience to stress and then the stress can cause us to crash. My crash of last winter can be seen in the same way. I guess the lesson is that we need to protect ourselves from stress at all costs, but that isn't always possible. I am thinking of doing Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. It was developed by Jon Kabat-Zinn and supposed to be very effective, and I found a free course online. Anyway, let's think of those who HAVE succeeded in tapering off Paxil. Tim in Japan....um, remind me of others? I know there are more! Lots more, we just don't hear from them as much as those who have trouble. 

Trying to get off Paxil since 2007. Was tapering by 0.1 mg every 4-5 weeks. Had awful crash in November 2015 at .5 mg; updosed gradually to 2 mg. 

 

Doing better and tapering again, much slower this time.  2016: Dropped from 2 mg to 1.62 mg.  2017:  1.62 mg to 1.2 mg. 2018: 1.2 mg to .76 mg. 2019: .76 mg to .56 mg. 2020: .56 mg to .33 mg. 2021: .33 mg to .13 mg. 2022: .13 mg to .03 mg. 6/12/23 .002 mg. OFF PAXIL 9/4/23

 

Started Klonopin in November 2015 to deal with crash. 1/10/16 started milk titration taper from .5 mg. Finished taper 12/6/17. Still take Klonopin for agoraphobia 2 - 3 times a week. 

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