jonnypeters1234567: 11 months off Citalopram

[Rosetta]

Oh, my.  Do you have a quiet place to go? In what kind of place are you?  A city, a vacation home, a resort, a set of beach cottages?  Is the ocean nearby?  Can you find a place to listen to some repetitive sound?  Even if it's traffic, maybe?  Maybe you can get some headphones and listen to something on your phone -- ocean waves would be nice.

[jonnypeters1234567]

a set of villas. Keep going back to the villa but isn't calming me. So many stressors building up, can't relax or sleep

[Rosetta]

Ok, I want you to know something very, very important: the "anxiety" of WD is not natural anxiety.  There should be another word for it, but, in order to distinguish it from natural anxiety, SA calls it neuro-anxiety.  There is also something called Akathisia, and that is a drug induced and/or withdrawal induced condition that feels like off the charts anxiety, but it's really a situation in which the brain is in flight or flight constantly.  (It has to do with an excess of glutamate and not enough GABA -- both neurotransmitters involved in fight it flight reactions.). The reason this is important is because a person in this condition may interpret the world around them to be dangerous or may interpret something in that world to be dangerous when in fact that is not the case.  

 

Sometimes it's very difficult for the person with this condition to determine what is causing anxiety or whether the anxiety is simply there without a real world cause.  I tell you this because your brain will try and try to find a real world reason for the neuro-anxiety or for the Akathisia induced anxiety.  There is not one, but many people have come to the conclusion that something in their environment -- a person, the weather, an animal maybe -- is the cause of this very intense anxiety, but THAT IS NOT TRUE.  The person going through this experience might say or do something completely out of character.  This is especially probable if the person does not know he or she has a chemically induced or WD induced disorder that feels like very intense anxiety.  So, I want you to know about this possibility because you said being on holiday is causing you to feel bad.  That tells me that your brain is trying to find a reason for the fact that you feel worse.  I don't want you to mistake neuro anxiety for anxiety that would be occurring normally.  

 

I would hope that being on holiday is normally a good experience for you.  So, this is a good time for you to see the difference between natural anxiety and neuro anxiety.  I finally settled on the cause of my very intense anxiety being overstimulation instead of it being caused by a particular person or situation, and I would try to avoid noise, light, etc to allow my system to calm down.  However, for many months I thought particular people were trying to hurt me. -- people close to me, and I came up with some theories on why they would want to do that.  Just in case you get to that point, I wanted to make you aware of this condition so that you avoid going down that road.  You get past this, but for now the cause of your problem is internal and the best thing is to calm your nervous system as much as possible.  I use repetitive movements and repetitive sounds such as ocean waves.  

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/841-eft-emotional-freedom-techniques/

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14397-neuro-emotions/

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/32-akathisia-vs-restlessness-anxiety-agitation/

(notice the post from Altostrata that Akathisia will resolve with time, and it does -- mine is much better and only happens rarely.)

 

[Rosetta]

Hi.  Are you ok?

[jonnypeters1234567]

Hi, thanks for checking in

 

Getting a lot more physical symptoms, muscle twitches and burning skin

 

Socialising has been hard this week. It's weird, my head can only adjust to socialising with certain people, even if I've known them all as long. 

 

Got through the wedding ok, can't wait to get home.

 

are you still getting physical muscle twitches, did you notice them come on in the second year?

[jonnypeters1234567]

Trying to get my head round this taking 3-4 years is hard as I ct

[Rosetta]

Oh, good.  I was worried.  Yes, home is going to be better.

 

Yes, I still get muscle twitches all the time.  I see them as a sign of healing, readjustment and the growth of new brain structures. They are a good thing.  Nothing to be worried about.

 

Have a safe trip home!

 

Rosetta

[Rosetta]

When did you find SA?  Was it just before you joined or did you read here for a while?  

 

I don't think you have 3-4 years left.  I think you are having a particularly bad 12 month wave.  It will pass, and you will see that much healing has taken place.  AliG said that at the 2 year point she felt pretty good, and that healing was more like fine tuning from there on out.  She also CT'd.  So, I look to her story for hope all the time.  She's just arrive at the 4 year point, and she's  planning to live in Europe half the year!  To have that much energy and fortitude means we can all get back to normal.  Happy2Heal has recovered, and she had a shorter recovery.  Anyone with a sun symbol before the name is doing quite well.  Have you seen the success stories?

 

Oh, I have no idea when the muscle twitches started.  I was in WD for many years (5 or more) before I knew that it was a possibile explanation for my problems.  I attributed almost everything that happened in the first two years after the switch from Celexa to Zoloft to pregnancy and the miscarriage I had in December of 2013.   

 

It seems that different parts of the brain reconfigure at different times for different people.  Getting strange new symptoms isn't unusual.  Some affect the physical body and some mess with the mental processes.  It seems these changes can happen in any order and the symptoms can be at different intensities for different people.  There isn't a clear pattern.  So, I don't worry when physical symptoms get worse or change.  I have the most trouble staying calm when I have mental symptoms.  That's just the nature of those symptoms.

[Rosetta]

When did you find SA?  Was it just before you joined or did you read here for a while?  

 

I don't think you have 3-4 years left.  I think you are having a particularly bad 12 month wave.  It will pass, and you will see that much healing has taken place.  AliG said that at the 2 year point she felt pretty good, and that healing was more like fine tuning from there on out.  She also CT'd.  So, I look to her story for hope all the time.  She's just arrive at the 4 year point, and she's  planning to live in Europe half the year!  To have that much energy and fortitude means we can all get back to normal.  Happy2Heal has recovered, and she had a shorter recovery.  Anyone with a sun symbol before the name is doing quite well.  Have you seen the success stories?

 

Oh, I have no idea when the muscle twitches started.  I was in WD for many years (5 or more) before I knew that it was a possibile explanation for my problems.  I attributed almost everything that happened in the first two years after the switch from Celexa to Zoloft to pregnancy and the miscarriage I had in December of 2013.   

 

It seems that different parts of the brain reconfigure at different times for different people.  Getting strange new symptoms isn't unusual.  Some affect the physical body and some mess with the mental processes.  It seems these changes can happen in any order and the symptoms can be at different intensities for different people.  There isn't a clear pattern.  So, I don't worry when physical symptoms get worse or change.  I have the most trouble staying calm when I have mental symptoms.  That's just the nature of those symptoms.

[jonnypeters1234567]

Had a good night sleep, woke up with intense morning anxiety, feeling more in reallity than I have for a while.

 

walked into town and had breakfast, dripping with sweat. Came back had a nap and experienced my first toxic nap, wow, woke up with intense anxiety and sweats.

 

it feels like my we is just beginning in some ways as I didn't have many physical symptoms in my first year and didn't feel quite in reallity for most of it.

 

at what stage did these intense physical symptoms clear up for people?

 

i believe testosterone may play a part in this as I believe mine is low.

[Rosetta]

Sleep is a key part of healing.  I'm so glad you slept well!

[jonnypeters1234567]

I've noticed that when taking b vitamin complex, I feel agitated and anxious in waves. It gives me near perfect energy maybe more than normal and reduces depression. However socialising is hard when slightly manic/anxious. It's fine when alone in this state

 

it reduces hypomanic episodes, physical sweats and insomnia and full blown panic atracks and spirals out of control. I can do exercise and have caffeine on it.

 

my question is, do you think it's just masking symptoms?

 

[Rosetta]

Vitamin b causes a reaction in some people with WD. It's generally recommended on SA to avoid any "complex" vitamin pills.  One thing at a time is recommended so that if you have a reaction you will know what caused it.  

 

Heres the thread:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/5019-hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex/

 

[jonnypeters1234567]

Thanks Rosetta.

 

I think it got me through year 1 relatively unscathed, however I did feel on another planet at times. It prevented any downward spirals and manic states and I only had 2 sleepless nights, these were when I didn't take the complex.

 

I think I will use it sparingly and only if i feel a sleepless night coming on and my nervous system being over worked

[Rosetta]

You might be reacting to something in the complex. Taking just one specific b vitamin might give you what you need without the reaction?  To search SA Google "survivingantidepressants b12" for instance.  (The search engine on the site doesn't work as well.)  Niacin, which is a b vitamin, caused me to react strongly.  It's supposed to be calming after the niacin flush, but my flush was very hot like sun burn  and terribly itchy.  I wasn't aware of the strategy of taking just a small amount at the time.  When I took less, the reaction was less severe.  If you get capsules you can open the capsule and dump out part of the interior powder.

[jonnypeters1234567]

Feeling screwed.

 

The B Vitamins have started to make me feel uneasy. I have been taking them daily for 4 years and my body has become reliant on them. When I dont take them i feel really fatigued, dripping with sweat. I fear that my nervous system will not recover now.   Feeling my body wont acclimatise without them in withdrawal. I dont know what to do now. Feeling very depressed. Seeing doctor next friday

[Rosetta]

Thanks for your sweet notes on my thread.  

 

It is possible for something you have taken a long time to bother you in WD.  That does not mean you won't heal.  Please don't let yourself think that.

 

By the way, almost everyone has periods of feeling that they will never heal.  It's almost a WD symptom of its own.  It's very natural to start to question recovery because the pattern of recovery from WD is not at all like the pattern of recovery from other illness.  It doesn't make sense, and so it starts to feel like it will be a permanent condition.  Add to that the incredibly negative thoughts we all have in WD, and then you have a lot of fear that this condition is permanent.  You simply have to remember that other people heal and you will, too, if you allow yourself to stabilize on your dose.  That is the key.  People who can't do that take longer to heal.  Sometimes, not always, but sometimes if you see someone who is still very sick 4 years after finding SA you can look back and see that the person had tried a new drug or was forced to have anesthesia or went up and down in dose a lot.

[jonnypeters1234567]

Thanks Rosetta as always

 

Feeling better today

[Rosetta]

Glad to hear that!

[jonnypeters1234567]

Good night sleep, woke up once in panic and slept most of night

 

Woke up with anxiety.

[jonnypeters1234567]

Struggling alot this morning with chemical anxiety

 

[jonnypeters1234567]

Mind running at 100mph all morning, brain fog, paranoia, audio hallucinations. Think its called emotional lability. Not a window or wave.

 

Anyone else experience that?

[Rosetta]

Yep. It's awful.  I would hear strange sounds in the white noise of the fan.  I had to turn it off.  Sorry that's happening to you, Jonny.  It will pass.

[jonnypeters1234567]

Woke up in a window. Had some absolutely savage anxiety then seemed to level out

[jonnypeters1234567]

In two minds whether to reinstate 5mg then taper off slowly

[jonnypeters1234567]

I'm thinking that now im in a window and my physical symptons arent revved up, stabilising would be easier? Its a tough one because I will be rekindling myself for the third time

[jonnypeters1234567]

Feeling more like my real self this afternoon. Albeit fatigued with a headahe.

 

 However I have started to get an upset stomach and diarrohea.

[jonnypeters1234567]

Not a bad day today.

 

Went for a walk.

 

Severely fatigued this evening, gone to bed

[Rosetta]

If you are having Windows don't change anything with the meds!

[Carmie]

On 7/11/2018 at 3:37 AM, jonnypeters1234567 said:

Not a bad day today.

 

Went for a walk.

 

Severely fatigued this evening, gone to bed

 

Hi johnnypeters,

 

Thats really nice to see that you’re having some good days. Every day can vary so much, and some days symptoms can go up and down a million times during the day. 

 

It’s a moment at a time for everyone in this withdrawal process. Hope you have lots more good days.

 

Sending hugs🤗

[jonnypeters1234567]

Struggling to go on, its wave after wave at the moment. Strong waves of losing sense of reality.

 

Saw doctor today to get results of blood test I did a month ago and he thinks I should start Effexor.

 

Not sure what to do..

[Rosetta]

On June 23, 2018 at 1:15 AM, jonnypeters1234567 said:

Hi Lex thanks for your message

 

I was making what I thought was great progress last week, everyday seemed like i was so close to my normal self. I had some MSG on friday and then this week I have had alot of DP/DR come back, paranoia, disconnection, crying spells. 

 

 

Jonny,

 

Please, please do not use Effexor.  It comes in pills that are 37.5 mg at the lowest dose.  If msg affects you then a dose of a psychotropic drug that high would probably make you feel so much worse.  Then, because of the large dose pills people find it very hard to taper.  It seems that when a person has a bad reaction to a drug or alcohol the symptoms are more severe than people who simply took a dose of an AD consistently and then suddenly stopped.  I get that from reading here, and it may not be scientifically concluded, but it has been very common in the threads.  I am constantly on the look out for anything that might trigger a bad reaction for me.  

 

You have come so far, and I know you are hurting right now.  I understand completely how scary this is and how you want it to stop.  I truly believe your best chance at getting well more quickly is to avoid drugs and anything that might irritate your system.  It's what I believe so strongly that I'm doing the same for myself.  I want this to stop.  I want to feel normal everyday all day, but I know that every time I realize I feel good then I am that much closer to being well.

 

Of course, I no longer trust doctors and you probably are not ready to believe that they can't fix your problem.  It's hard to let go of that hope isn't it?  I would hate for you to have to experience a bad reaction because of that hope.  Perhaps you should read the threads of some people who used Effexor?  A lot of people here think it's one of the more dangerous ADs.  

 

See this:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/

 

Effexor XR (extended release) is even worse than regular Effexor for tapering.  This is because instead of hundreds of little beads inside the capsule there are mini-pills inside the capsules that must be crushed and weighed to taper.

 

Well, I have to go.  One last thought -- are you sleeping ok?  You weren't before, but you haven't said that lately.  If your sleep is better that's another sign of healing!

 

Rosetta

[jonnypeters1234567]

Thanks, as always

[jonnypeters1234567]

Is akathisia caused by anything? Or is it just part of the healing process?

[Rosetta]

Jonny,. Here's the thread on that 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/32-akathisia-vs-restlessness-anxiety-agitation/

 

If you type survivingantidepressants Akathisia into google you can find the thread.  It's the same for any other subject.

[jonnypeters1234567]

My days currently consist of having extreme fear of everything or being out of touch with everything with extreme depression, not nice