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Rick213: Valdoxan


Rick213

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Are all drugs metabolize the same way ?

By the liver ?

Gabapentin 600 valporate magnesium (depakote) 200. April 15 2017 to Aug 15 2017

Zoloft 50mg from April 15 2017to Aug 15 2017 

Valdoxan 25 mg  Oct 1 2017 to Feb 25 2018

I quit evrything cold turkeyturkey 

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Are all drugs metabolize the same way ?

By the liver ?

Gabapentin 600 valporate magnesium (depakote) 200. April 15 2017 to Aug 15 2017

Zoloft 50mg from April 15 2017to Aug 15 2017 

Valdoxan 25 mg  Oct 1 2017 to Feb 25 2018

I quit evrything cold turkeyturkey 

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Different enzymes are involved. You can google each drug and see which enzymes are the main metabolisers.

History:

Escitalopram 10mg Nov - Jan 2016 (switched to Effexor XR)

Effexor XR 37,5mg Jan - Feb 2016; 75mg Feb - April 2016; 37,5mg for one week in April, 75mg April-July 2016 (started tapering, took my last beads on Sept 11.)

The fluctuations happened because my GP mistakingly prescribed me the wrong dosage.

Oxazepam 2x10mg Dec 2015 - Jan 2016 (basically CT but no apparent symptoms); June 2016 - Feb 2017 (c/o to Valium)

 

Current:

Valdoxan 25mg Dec 2015 - Sept 2016. 12.4mg (Sept - Nov '16) -> 11.86mg (Nov '16) -> 10.75mg (Dec '16) -> 9.75mg (Jan '17) -> 8mg (March '17) -> 7mg (April '17) -> 4.5mg (May '17) -> 4mg (Jan '18) -> updosed to 4.5mg in the end of January

Valium (liquid form) 8.5mg Feb 2017. 7.6mg (June '17) -> 7.2mg (June '17) -> 6.8mg (July '17) -> 6.4 (Sept '17) -> 6.2 (March '18) -> 6 (April 7 '18) -> 5.8 (April 17 '18) -> 5.6 (April 26 '18) -> 5.4 (July 16 '18) -> 5.2 (March '20) -> 5 (March '20)

What to take away from all this: if you feel extremely sick only after a few doses of an AD, please tell your doctor and just stop. Adding medications is no bueno.

 

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Oh k

Gabapentin 600 valporate magnesium (depakote) 200. April 15 2017 to Aug 15 2017

Zoloft 50mg from April 15 2017to Aug 15 2017 

Valdoxan 25 mg  Oct 1 2017 to Feb 25 2018

I quit evrything cold turkeyturkey 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
10 hours ago, Rick213 said:

I have some windows all I know is the half life of this med is short compare to zoloft so idk if that means my withdraw will be much longer and also 

 

Idk the mechanisms of this drug i think it down regulates  dopamine and noranldrine ?

 

Hi Rick213,

Are you saying ^ that you have experienced some recent windows?  That is great news if so.

And I saw your reply that you no longer have any Valdoxan as well.  If you go on back to page one, I left you a link that talks about reinstatement. You might want to take a look at that when you are feeling at your best cognitively.  If that looks like something you would want to try...........it would involve getting a hold of a prescription for Valdoxan or samples(if that's how it was supplied)..........which might be difficult considering that your prescriber(as well as a great majority of them) can be clueless as far as W/D goes. 

If you decide you want to try a reinstatement........do keep in mind that we would only have you try a very small dose, something like 1 mg.  Let us know though before doing this and we can confer. 

 

Also back on page one here, in my first post you'll see a link to some of the non drug coping skills you might consider for cortisol spikes(probably the same as what you refer to as adrenaline surges).

 

And as it turns out Valdoxan/agomelatine seems to be in it's very own class, as far as the various drugs used as A/D's go. 

 

" Agomelatine is structurally closely related to melatonin. Agomelatine is a potent agonist at melatonin receptors and an antagonist at serotonin-2C (5-HT2C) receptors"

extracted from: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/82148#section=Top

 

And then I found this of interest as well:  https://www.drugs.com/uk/valdoxan.html

Apparently they used it in clinical trials in the UK and then quit development of it there.

 

And then I'm guessing you and fuerza have read through what we have so far in the link that ChessieCat posted initially on page 1.  I'll put that here again.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/10456-tapering-valdoxan-agomelatine/

 

You can also do alot of your own searches on this stuff as well.

 

Rick, you may not be able to see signatures if you are on an Iphone or Android, even when you are signed in.  If you have access to a laptop or desktop computer that often works best with our present software.........as far as viewing everything goes.  We have a post somewhere as far as this goes.......I'm just not finding it at the moment.

 

I don't think that the symptoms you are having now Rick.......... are so much related to down-regulation of any particular receptor per se.  From my understanding any time one receptor is altered it can generally effect the whole symphony, so to speak. 

At this point in time I think your symptoms have more to do with W/D(withdrawal).

 

The side effect of liver function actually being off, as a side effect from the Valdoxan is probably much less likely now that you are off of it.  If you aren't noticing any symptoms like yellowed sclera in the eyes or yellowing of the skin you are probably okay as far as that goes.  I was on a medication once that caused the yellow sclera and some changes in some of my liver enzymes.  Once I came off of it though everything went back to normal.  Did your prescriber even do an initial blood test to get a baseline function of your liver.  Mine never did and always just wrote off any symptom I would tell them about.  I finally got wise to it.  Generally psychiatrists don't even do lab work.  I take care of all that with my GP periodically.

 

I'll put some of the pinned topics that I think  fuerza was alluding to that may help with your further understanding of your present symptoms:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

In the first post you will see a whole index of topics that should help your understanding.

 

Okie dokie.  A lot for you to read and digest.  Keep us updated and informed.  This is your introduction/journal where you can keep a progress report for yourself and us, as well as communicate with others........as you have been doing.  Feel free to poke around the site and get familiar as well. 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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Also I whent trew withdraw before and healed 80 percent now getting of this med again does that mean I kindle?

Gabapentin 600 valporate magnesium (depakote) 200. April 15 2017 to Aug 15 2017

Zoloft 50mg from April 15 2017to Aug 15 2017 

Valdoxan 25 mg  Oct 1 2017 to Feb 25 2018

I quit evrything cold turkeyturkey 

Link to comment

The other med was zoloft this is valdoxan

Gabapentin 600 valporate magnesium (depakote) 200. April 15 2017 to Aug 15 2017

Zoloft 50mg from April 15 2017to Aug 15 2017 

Valdoxan 25 mg  Oct 1 2017 to Feb 25 2018

I quit evrything cold turkeyturkey 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
9 hours ago, Rick213 said:

Also I whent trew withdraw before and healed 80 percent now getting of this med again does that mean I kindle?

 

Yes, I think you sure could be......kindling..........in that post-withdrawal hyper-reactivity way now.   You'll heal again!!!!!   In your favor, you have had a relatively short history with neuroactive psychotropic substances(I can see your signature).  Learning some non-drug coping for what you sought care for in the first place is of utmost importance now.  As well as learning more and managing W/D symptoms.

 

Ironically, me too.......going through a bit of hyper-reactivity right now......... my own stress response gets thrown into overdrive somethimes.........even post zero medications.  Part of this whole "withdrawal syndrome" for me.   Autonomic nervous system recovery for me.  I'm still a bit wonky.   I don't know if you can see signatures yet.........I did 30 years and at least that many medications.........and I'm okay now.........truly B).

 

Here's a good short definition from Altostrata on the different faces of kindling:

"Kindling is another name for hypersensitive reactions to neurologically active substances.

Yes, people who have withdrawn from antidepressants experience this. We have many, many discussions about post-withdrawal hyper-reactivity."

So........I think, yah..........you fit with the post withdrawal hyper-reactivity right now.  Part of "withdrawal syndrome" if you will.  Often it includes hyper-senitivity reactions to other neurological substances as well.  So there isn't really any relief to be found now in trying another prescription or supplement from your prescriber.  If you decide to try a wee little re-instatement of the Valdoxan you might find relief.........it's really up to you to decide on that now........after empowering yourself with all the information.  As I said.........it would be a small dose in comparison to what most likely your prescriber, would consider "a therapeutic dose". 

 

Quotes in black are taken from this discussion(thankyou Altostrata )B)😞

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/8095-adverse-reactions-kindling/

........and another quote:

"Giovanni Fava, a researcher, believes exactly that, Nikki, that antidepressants set up the nervous system for relapse, they make the nervous system less resilient to stress.

 Stress management would be a good element in your toolbox."

"Nervous system less resilient to stress" and in your case in a bit of overdrive right now.

 

Me........overall.......I'm just a bit less resistant to stress.

I had gotten off my last medication in December of 2016, and made a ton of progress............then, due to unpredictable life happenings recently .........I'm having to really go back in my management toolbox, as well as add a few new things, until I get back to status quo once more.  It doesn't help that I kind of "threw my hands up in the air" and got off my usual daily maintenance tract a little bit.........just basic stuff that I was doing and am slowly getting back to.........exercise, diet, consistent sleeping/waking schedules.........that kind of thing.

 

I believe, actually know...........that I'm resilient(not my first rodeo with reactions) and I expect you are too..........maybe even more so than I.

I hope that helps a bit........it's not all real concretely defined........yet many thanks to some of the experts in this field of "withdrawal syndrome".  Often patience and self care are of the utmost.  We all wish there was a "miracle cure"........the best we can do is help others minimize harm if they choose this path.  And educate.  And be patient with ourselves.

 

Rick, try and get on over to our "symptoms and self care" section .........hopefully you can start to build your own tool box to cope.........you ARE getting more understanding of this whole thing, which helps as well.  Stay hopeful..........progress and improvement is right around the corner for you.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
one additional comment 11:53 MST US

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Do u know if valdoxan and olanzapine have the same mechanism of action ?

Gabapentin 600 valporate magnesium (depakote) 200. April 15 2017 to Aug 15 2017

Zoloft 50mg from April 15 2017to Aug 15 2017 

Valdoxan 25 mg  Oct 1 2017 to Feb 25 2018

I quit evrything cold turkeyturkey 

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Rick,

Sheesh........sorry such a delayed answer to your question.

I don't think they do at all........have the same mechanism of action.

You can do a search yourself if you'd like.  Just type them in your browser.  I like pubmed.  That often comes up in a general search.

And then to search for stuff here just type in survivingantidepressants.org and then whatever subject(again in your browser).

 

I'm hoping you aren't considering olanzapine now.

And how are you doing symptom wise and coping?

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hey, Rick! How are you doing?

History:

Escitalopram 10mg Nov - Jan 2016 (switched to Effexor XR)

Effexor XR 37,5mg Jan - Feb 2016; 75mg Feb - April 2016; 37,5mg for one week in April, 75mg April-July 2016 (started tapering, took my last beads on Sept 11.)

The fluctuations happened because my GP mistakingly prescribed me the wrong dosage.

Oxazepam 2x10mg Dec 2015 - Jan 2016 (basically CT but no apparent symptoms); June 2016 - Feb 2017 (c/o to Valium)

 

Current:

Valdoxan 25mg Dec 2015 - Sept 2016. 12.4mg (Sept - Nov '16) -> 11.86mg (Nov '16) -> 10.75mg (Dec '16) -> 9.75mg (Jan '17) -> 8mg (March '17) -> 7mg (April '17) -> 4.5mg (May '17) -> 4mg (Jan '18) -> updosed to 4.5mg in the end of January

Valium (liquid form) 8.5mg Feb 2017. 7.6mg (June '17) -> 7.2mg (June '17) -> 6.8mg (July '17) -> 6.4 (Sept '17) -> 6.2 (March '18) -> 6 (April 7 '18) -> 5.8 (April 17 '18) -> 5.6 (April 26 '18) -> 5.4 (July 16 '18) -> 5.2 (March '20) -> 5 (March '20)

What to take away from all this: if you feel extremely sick only after a few doses of an AD, please tell your doctor and just stop. Adding medications is no bueno.

 

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  • 3 months later...
  • Administrator

Rick, how are you?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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