☼ Windsor77: Celexa - it's time for peace

[WiggleIt]

Hi Windsor, how ya holding up?

[Windsor77]

Doing great.  Symptoms not very noticeable.  Like a switch got flipped.   Fingers crossed. 

[WiggleIt]

8 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

Doing great.  Symptoms not very noticeable.  Like a switch got flipped.   Fingers crossed. 

I love hearing this!!!!!

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, Windsor. When did you start 5mg citalopram? Please put the date in your signature.

[Carmie]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:00 PM, Windsor77 said:

Doing great.  Symptoms not very noticeable.  Like a switch got flipped.   Fingers crossed. 

 

Hi Windsor, 

 

So happy to hear you’re doing well💚

[Windsor77]

Hello all. Long time since I’ve posted or been to the site.  I have had an interesting 6 months.  About a week after my last post, I had a sudden and strong neuro emotion and anxiety attack. It was horrendous.  The crazy emotions were out of control. My wife insisted I increase my dose, which, in my extreme distress, I did.  Back to 10 mg for about 5 days.  I share this as a cautionary tale.  I had read the stories of why not to do this, but I did it anyway.  Needless to say, I suffered greatly for a month or two getting sorted back out.   Don’t be foolish like me.  The level of anxiety and depression I felt during this time are the worst thing I have ever endured. 

Now on to the good. (Well, better anyway) 

I haven’t felt so clear headed in a long long time.  But, my muscle twitching, mild action tremor, and jerks when falling asleep are still here.  And random left leg and arm numbness. Though there was a period of over 6 weeks that they were nearly gone.  This seems to get worse  when I reduce my dose, even by 10%.   

I am currently at 4.2mg of liquid citalopram.  And I am scheduled to reduce again in about 2 weeks.  I am thinking or only reducing by .2mg from now on.  Just to test the severity of the reductions effects.  

I have to say that I still am fearful of some neurological disorder.  Even though I have had tests and MRI, and been told there are no abnormalities.  It can be troubling, but I am in a much better place that I was when I joined, and certainly better than where I was 6 months ago. 

 

I am almost at the 2 year mark since I CT lexapro and started this roller coaster.  I have learned a lot.  I am confident about moving forward to freedom from the meds, but I am fearful of what is to come, and whether these troubling, but tolerable neurological side effects will ever leave me. 

 

Hope all is well with everyone. 

W77

[manymoretodays]

Hi Windsor,

Glad you are getting sorted out again.

6 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

 But, my muscle twitching, mild action tremor, and jerks when falling asleep are still here.  And random left leg and arm numbness. Though there was a period of over 6 weeks that they were nearly gone.  This seems to get worse  when I reduce my dose, even by 10%.   

6 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

I am confident about moving forward to freedom from the meds, but I am fearful of what is to come, and whether these troubling, but tolerable neurological side effects will ever leave me. 

 

And darn!! 

Where were you at, with dosage, and/or taper or updose, when you had that 6 week period?

 

6 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

This seems to get worse  when I reduce my dose, even by 10%.   

I am currently at 4.2mg of liquid citalopram.  And I am scheduled to reduce again in about 2 weeks.  I am thinking or only reducing by .2mg from now on.  Just to test the severity of the reductions effects.  

 And I think, that you could certainly do reductions less than 10%.  Good idea. 

Keep notes, on paper too.  That should be a good way to see, over time, the severity of your reductions effects.

I think you might already do this?  I do know that you have stated you are highly methodological.  Which is great, Windsor!!

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

this should help ^ with your planning going forward

 

For the neuroemotions and anxiety, should they occur again, here's a link, that will take you back to some non-drug coping you might brush up on too(from one of Ccat's posts to you here several pages back.

 

 

Thanks for the update.   Good to hear from you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited September 3, 2019 by manymoretodays
notes comment added

[Windsor77]

I had been holding at 5mg for 5 to 6 months during the reduced twitch symptom period.  But this is also the period when the neuro emotion/hyper anxiety started, so who knows?!?

  

Now I’m at 4.2mg, or 2.1ml.  I think I’ll do .1 ml drops from here on out for a while.  It sucks because it extends my time on the drug.   The side effects are not debilitating, just annoying.  Part of me just says to tough through, but my cautious side knows better.  

 

I appreciate the non-drug coping suggestions.  The extreme anxiety was HORRIBLE!!!!  I actually saw a therapist during this time. 

 

Regarding the symptom cycle, mine usually peak around the 3rd week following the reduction.  Then I seem to level out.   

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Windsor77]

Updated.  I updated my signature. Took over a year to get to 4 mg. I feel pretty darned good now.  CNS side effects minimal.  Dropped .1 ml on the 14th.  I am interested to see if I get the same surge of CNS side effects in week three as was occurring when I was doing the 10% (or more) taper.  

 

Forcing myself to exercise minimally. But every little bit helps. 

 

Wondering if the recent throat allergy symptoms I’ve had could be a histamine reaction. I’ve never been very noticeably allergic to anything in my life. 

[Windsor77]

So, I still experienced the bit of CNS symptoms st right around the 3rd week during this drop.  I am amazed as it was only .1ml!!  But I am ok.  Only physical symptoms.  

 

I have been experiencing what I’d call subcutaneous pain in random areas under my skin.  Not muscle pain.  Like the adipose tissue between skin and muscle is getting inflamed in certain random areas.   Is this fibromyalgia?  

Anyone else experience anything like this?

 

otherwise, I plan to drop by another .1ml on the 14th. Slow and steady.   Certainly not symptom free, but much better than I was and enjoying life. 

[Windsor77]

Getting ready to drop another .1 ml, or .2mg.   This will put me at 1.8ml or 3.6mg of liquid citalopram.  Still dealing with the minor weakness and random twitching.   Nearly alcohol free.  Incidentally, I drank a few beers this weekend and woke with a resurgence of the more noticeable muscle and nerve twitches.   It’s intetesting that this presented after drinking some beers.  The 2 weeks prior the symptoms were nearly non-existent.  This also corresponded with the beginning of my  my 3rd week since reducing.  Who knows what caused what.   But I know that the lack of alcohol has me sleeping like a baby and definitely feeling less anxiety.  

Still feeling optimistic and good.  The heaviness of the depressive feeling from spring feel miles away.   I am worried though, that I will have to endure all of these horrendous side effects and symptoms for the years after I am finally off the drug, which, at this point, is looking like it will be 2025 at this rate.  Kinda discouraging when you think about it. 

[Windsor77]

So I’m really looking back at the time since I unwittingly started this journey and I am seriously wondering what I’ve gained.  I just finished through a month after dropping from 1.8ml to 1.7ml of liquid citalopram. (3.4 mg) This drop coincided with me getting a chest infection of some sort during the 2nd week and I had a severe anxiety attack, which is now finishing after about a month.   Health anxiety is my main problem and has been.  I am just realizing that I haven’t had many days since I first ct’d in Sept 2017 that weren’t filled with incessant worry about either the withdrawal or fear of underlying disease due to what May or may not be effects of withdrawal.     

One thing is for sure, ssri’s took away my health anxiety effectively.   Right now, I’m wishing I could go back on.   If I thought that they would work for another 10 years like before, I’d probably start them.   The daily battle of battling ruminating thoughts is exhausting.   So maybe this is my normal?   CBT can’t cure this.   Feeling discouraged and down. 

[Windsor77]

I know some will assume this to be a wave, and maybe it is.   My health anxiety definitely triggers the panic and adrenaline overload.  Or, it could be that my health anxiety is back and as bad as ever now that I’ve significantly changed then reduced my meds. It’s been few and far between feeling  like myself.    After a month of adrenaline, I’m exhausted.  Wishing for the good ole days, feeling sorry for myself.  This current episode is beginning to very much weigh on my marriage.   My spouse is tired of hearing about my health anxiety, as I’ve cried wolf so many times over the years.  My inability to escape the intrusive thought cycle and rumination is making me distant and secluded.   

Ive explained what’s going on, but those without anxiety can never understand what it is to live with.   

I’m not sure whether to just stay course of taper, which is to drop .1ml (.2mg) when I am feeling stable.  Each time I get a wave even with a drop of 5.5%.  Perhaps I need a different syringe so that I can taper an even lower amount each time. Perhaps I shouldn’t taper anymore?   I feel like I’m at another fork in the road.  Should I go left (back to drugs after 2.25 years) or right (continue to drop slowly).  But for what gain? To get my full-on health anxiety back?   I know I’m complaining now, but I’m really frustrated currently.  Thanks in advance for listening. 

[pinciukas]

19 minutes ago, Windsor77 said:

I know some will assume this to be a wave, and maybe it is.   My health anxiety definitely triggers the panic and adrenaline overload.  Or, it could be that my health anxiety is back and as bad as ever now that I’ve significantly changed then reduced my meds. It’s been few and far between feeling  like myself.    After a month of adrenaline, I’m exhausted.  Wishing for the good ole days, feeling sorry for myself.  This current episode is beginning to very much weigh on my marriage.   My spouse is tired of hearing about my health anxiety, as I’ve cried wolf so many times over the years.  My inability to escape the intrusive thought cycle and rumination is making me distant and secluded.   

Ive explained what’s going on, but those without anxiety can never understand what it is to live with.   

I’m not sure whether to just stay course of taper, which is to drop .1ml (.2mg) when I am feeling stable.  Each time I get a wave even with a drop of 5.5%.  Perhaps I need a different syringe so that I can taper an even lower amount each time. Perhaps I shouldn’t taper anymore?   I feel like I’m at another fork in the road.  Should I go left (back to drugs after 2.25 years) or right (continue to drop slowly).  But for what gain? To get my full-on health anxiety back?   I know I’m complaining now, but I’m really frustrated currently.  Thanks in advance for listening. 

same here. I just hate my health anxiety now i am ok but when i am tappering under 10 mg i just can’t hold al **** comes out. 3rd time and fail. Probably i can’t life anymore without SSRI. This time i just reached 5.5 mg and crashed so bad... So annoying 

[Windsor77]

This current episode continues to worsen. Physical symptoms are back equal, if not worse than they’ve been ever. Internal tremor. Action tremor. Restless legs at night.   Twitches randomly in muscles and nerves.   
I’d really like to get the group's advice on what to do here.  This all began around my last drop from 1.8 ml to 1.7 ml, so 3.6 to 3.4 mg.   Is this just from that drop?  Is this a larger wave from the fact that I ct’d lexapro in October 2017?  All of my physical symptoms started in January 2018 when I reinstated sertraline 100mg.  I then cut my dose to 50mg. That didn’t alleviate the symptoms.  Switched to celexa 10 mg.   Switches to liquids and went to 9 mg July 2018.  Until now, I’ve felt pretty great since July/August of last year with only mild and manageable symptoms.  I’ve been dropping at 5% for the past three to four months.  I’ve always had a wave with each drop, but not this heavy.  I guess they are all random.  But this one is misery and I don’t feel like I’ve seen the worst yet. 

[RhondaF]

I dont have anything to really add because i am so new.  I am on zoloft from 150 to 125....Reading these withdrawals symptoms freak me out.

 

i am just wondering if it is worth to get off of them?

[Windsor77]

Sent neurologist a message describing current symptoms.  She advised a rheumatologist, as my tests all were normal one year ago.  I am experiencing extreme feeling of pressure in my head. Behind eyes and at base of skull.  Feels like pressure is making my nerves in my limbs need to move.  Is this the dreaded akasthisia?    If so, it sucks and is the first I’ve felt of it.  Feels like a head fog with pressure.  Jerky/shaky muscles and limbs. 
Looking back, since 2018, at first of each year, I get a huge wave of this.  Wondering if this could be Lyme disease. 

[Windsor77]

All in all- 2 years in and back in the boat in the boat I started in.   Still trudging through though 

[Windsor77]

Had pharmacogenetic testing done last year.  Just got an update on it via email today.  I am an intermediate Cyp3a4*22 metabolizer.  But the only drugs they listed that could be caused to increase from this are statins.  Further internet searches state that this is a general indicator of slower 3a4 metabolism.  Could this be my problem with the CNS side effects?  

[Windsor77]

Back to 1.8 ml, or 3.6 mg of citalopram.  It helped a little going back up.  Original Symptoms are back and most are worse.  My tremor has hit an all time high.  Very frustrating.  Stress makes it worse!!  I am currently in a very stressed state and the stressors are not going away any time soon.   I am focusing on rationalizing and distractions, but hard to enjoy my normal life with kids and wife while fighting the catastrophic life or death battles in my mind.  I literally hear my wife say my name 3 times sometimes before I stop whatever train I’m on and answer.  I know my kids can tell I’m hyper stressed.  That makes me stress worse that I’m doing a sh*tty job of parenting.   So the cycle repeats.  Very easily fatigued.  Exercise makes the tremor WAY worse.  So my usual cardio has been on hold.  Feel trapped.  Minor things seem like mountains right now.  My wife is taking an unfair share of familial responsibility.  Insert more stressful thoughts.   It’s hard right now, I’m ashamed to admit. 

[Rozon1]

@Windsor77 I’m going through the similar feelings that you are with your wife and kids. My poor daughter can tell the **** I’m going through and it makes me feel even worse. I’m in debating on reinstating or not. The constant battle in my head on rather to reinstate or not. The constant battle that I’m going to end up like this for the rest of my life. It’s a tough battle and I certainly sympathize. Maybe we can talk about it. Makes it easier 

[Windsor77]

Still holding on at 1.8ml, or 3.6mg.   I’m a bit afraid to taper again.  In the past week, I’ve been having pretty troublesome head pressure behind my eyes and at the base of my skull.  Nerves feel very activated.   Only thing I have changed was the addition of a probiotic a month ago.   I’m feeling like I did when I suspect I had serotonin syndrome 3 years ago.  Dizzy, mental fog.  Slow muscles.  Wondering if the probiotic could be to blame if it is increasing the bacteria count and potentially the serotonin level in my body.  Any thoughts?

[Maui]

Hi @Windsor77, I was reading your story. I have similar side effects as you. Currently have that base of the neck ache weird feeling and a bunch of other stuff. I am really struggling with the health anxiety but thats what got me in ssri's in the first place. So anyway, you arent alone. Take care

[Windsor77]

@Maui  thanks for the message.  I hope your journey is smooth.   

[Windsor77]

Definite increase in my paraesthesia in my left extremities.  Facial nerves are activated and have very fine twitching.   2.5 yrs since I ct’d lexapro.  Still at 3.6 mg of citalopram.   I feel like just stopping citalopram or just going back to 10 mg of lexapro or 200 mg of sertraline.  
At this point, I have resigned myself that it’s not getting better.  I have had times where in felt that my neurologic symptoms were minimal, but they are progressing and getting worse.   I am not optimistic that I’ll regain my old self. Ever.   I’d love to just start a new drug and forget about the past 2.5 years.   This has taken so much from me.  My motivation, my pride, my joy of life and my energy.   Just to gain back a semblance of my self would be marvelous.  Just to wake up to face a day without the shadow of this illness hanging over me.   Sorry to vent, and sorry to bro everyone who reads this down.  This sucks. In many many ways.  

[Windsor77]

Could probiotics increase serotonin to the point where I’d feel like I have serotonin syndrome?     Could taking probiotics for a month have unintentionally upped my dose?  
looking for answers.  I feel hyperreflexia, fine facial twitching.  What I believe is akathisia (horrible tickle reflex feeling in my nerves and muscles) only change to my regimen was addition of probiotic.  Which I ceased last week.    Feels like I did when the WD started 2.5 years ago.   Is this a wave?  Anyone have any insight or similar experiences?   Anyone out there?  

[ChessieCat]

Considering that about 90% of serotonin is made in the gut then taking a probiotic MAY make a difference.

 

If you want to investigate this further do a search for "how does probiotic affect serotonin in the gut".  I suggest that you stick to reliable websites and try to assess whether they are coming from the chemical imbalance angle, which we know is a myth. 

 

For your, or others, information about the chemical imbalance myth please see SA's topic: 

[Windsor77]

I think I am entering the brain fog portion of withdrawal.  I am experiencing things like leaving the house without my phone or keys, forgetting names and work tasks, all of which are not my norm.   I have been feeling a pressure in my head for the past couple of weeks.  Not constant, but still troubling.  I am becoming increasingly concerned due to this and the increase in left extremity numbness.   I am at my breaking point.   I either  must stop the 3.6 mg of celexa or start over with a new drug.     It is past the point of being bearable.     I know that rash decisions made in a panic can cause extreme issues. I have personally made these quick reductions and even reinstated my full dose at one point last year.  All with bad consequences.   I don’t know what to do.  I cannot endure this torture.  

[Windsor77]

UPDATE- Talked to neurologist. Had MRI of my neck. I have degenerated discs in my neck which are pushing on nerves.  This explains the numbness and weakness in my arm.  The bulging disc in lower back that I knew about is the likely cause of the numbness in left leg.  Though this could involve a surgery, I am very pleased to learn that there is a mechanical cause to this issue.   
Regarding the brain fog and pressure, etc, I have to attribute that episode to the probiotics, as now that I’ve been off of them over a week, I feel much better.   I suspect that they raised the gut bacteria level which potentially raised my serotonin level.  As we already know, with any supplements, proceed with caution. 
feeling positive and happy and it’s sunny here.   Feels nice for a change.   Hope it lasts. 
 

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you've gotten some additional information that may lead to treatment for the pain.

 

Probiotics are not always best!

[Windsor77]

I am in the midst of yet another deep depressive state.  This is the 3rd or 4th time this has happened in the past 2 years.  I cannot stop crying.  Feeling worthless, useless.  I must seek help from a doc, and that may mean returning to medication.   This cycle is becoming more and more frequent.   I cannot stop the irrational and intrusive thoughts despite the techniques I use to focus and be present.  I cannot function in this deep state.  I feel trapped.  I repeat the same thing every day.  Wake up and feel the deepest depression and nihilistic feelings, force myself up out of bed.  Get to work. Feel a little better.  Get home, force myself to be “normal” for my kids,  go to bed where I have my only peace.  Wake up and start over again.   My wife is concerned and want me to get help.   I can no longer do this alone.   I am afraid that I just can not get off of these drugs.  I am at 3.4 mg liquid citalopram.   This is the 2nd time that a .2mg drop has caused this deep anxiety and depression.    I am scared because the one time that I went back to a higher dose, I had suicidal thoughts.   But I get them when I feel this way also.   I am and have never been this way in my life.  I’d never harm myself.  But that doesn’t stop the thoughts.   Part of me wants to stop the citalopram.  It has been a nightmare of twitches and side effects since I switched from sertraline to it in May 2018.  2 years ago.   2 years.  Gone.  Wasted.  Lost forever.    I need a path to getting back to my life.   If that has to involve drugs again, what does it matter at this point.  It cannot get much worse than it is right now.     I want to switch back to Zoloft but I’m not sure at what dose.    

[Windsor77]

As if I thought I couldn’t feel lower. The cycle repeats.  Mornings are the most intense anxiety and fear I’ve ever felt.  Triggering full on health anxiety. I cannot stop the cycling thoughts that create the anxiety.  I cannot see how I can do this every morning.  It is exhausting and taking away my drive to even move.   By evening I’ll work through and feel a little better.  Then it will all start over again.  I called a psychiatrist to get an appointment.   I cannot do this on my own.  I am ashamed to say that I feel like giving up.  Everything that gives me joy in my life feels like a liability.  Even the slightest things seem like challenges I cannot beat.  I cannot muster the energy or desire to do it.  I am letting down my kids and my wife.   I am still maintaining very well at work.   Life’s normal things seem to be too much pressure for me to maintain.  I feel like I’m falling apart.  I cannot be present with anyone or any thing.  Every moment is consumed by these racing thoughts of anxiety and nihilism.  I cannot take my mind off of the intense fear I am having.  
Im in a very bad state. 
 

I think I have no choice but to return to a different drug solution until I can get this under control.   
should I updose my celexa back to 3.6 from 3.4?    It’s been 11 days since I dropped .2 mg.   I could use some advice. 
Thanks

[Artistic1]

I had terrible anxiety and had to do something, because I just couldn't cope with all the awful thoughts and physical symptoms. So I opted for an antidepressant. I needed something to stabilize me until I could start working things out with a therapist. But like you said - you can't do it alone. I got help immediately from a good CBT therapist when I started the medication. That made all the difference for me. It was not instantaneous, but I felt I had someone who understood me, and the tools she taught me were so helpful. Therapy doesn't help if you don't get homework from the therapist and then DO the homework. Every day. Sometimes every hour.  Sometimes, I just counted it as a success to get from one task to the next. It took months of practice with the tools, but with diligence, it's paying off. 

Good luck to you.

 

[Altostrata]

On 5/15/2020 at 7:47 AM, Windsor77 said:

I am in the midst of yet another deep depressive state.  This is the 3rd or 4th time this has happened in the past 2 years.  I cannot stop crying.  Feeling worthless, useless.  I must seek help from a doc, and that may mean returning to medication.   This cycle is becoming more and more frequent.   I cannot stop the irrational and intrusive thoughts despite the techniques I use to focus and be present.  I cannot function in this deep state.  I feel trapped.  I repeat the same thing every day.  Wake up and feel the deepest depression and nihilistic feelings, force myself up out of bed.  Get to work. Feel a little better.  Get home, force myself to be “normal” for my kids,  go to bed where I have my only peace.  Wake up and start over again.   My wife is concerned and want me to get help.   I can no longer do this alone.   I am afraid that I just can not get off of these drugs.  I am at 3.4 mg liquid citalopram.   This is the 2nd time that a .2mg drop has caused this deep anxiety and depression.    I am scared because the one time that I went back to a higher dose, I had suicidal thoughts.   But I get them when I feel this way also.   I am and have never been this way in my life.  I’d never harm myself.  But that doesn’t stop the thoughts.   Part of me wants to stop the citalopram.  It has been a nightmare of twitches and side effects since I switched from sertraline to it in May 2018.  2 years ago.   2 years.  Gone.  Wasted.  Lost forever.    I need a path to getting back to my life.   If that has to involve drugs again, what does it matter at this point.  It cannot get much worse than it is right now.     I want to switch back to Zoloft but I’m not sure at what dose.    

 

For what reason did you start on antidepressants in 2010?

 

5 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

should I updose my celexa back to 3.6 from 3.4?    It’s been 11 days since I dropped .2 mg.   I could use some advice. 

 

If your symptoms got worse after the 0.2mg decrease, you might reinstate to 3.6mg and hold for a good while, maybe 3-6 months. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

5 hours ago, Windsor77 said:

Every moment is consumed by these racing thoughts of anxiety and nihilism.  I cannot take my mind off of the intense fear I am having.

 

What is the content of these thoughts? Are you worrying about your health?

[Windsor77]

@Altostrata  OCD is what I suffer from.   
 

I have gone back to 3.6mg and plan to hold.   
my thoughts during the last weeks episode surrounded health anxiety and the inability to deal with the latest disease I have convinced myself that I have.   All of this started the day I began a course of oral methylprednisolone for a pinched nerve.   This likely caused the anxiety/panic episode.   But even so, they have happened prior without a steroid.  
I saw a psychiatrist today who suggested 10 mg of buspar twice a day.    After getting to where I am at now with the tremor and twitching, I am super afraid to take it.  He said it is tolerated well.  But one search shows TD and involuntary movements as prime side effects.  
That said, my OCD is real and the sertraline worked wonders when I was on it previously.   I am still considering switching back to it.  
I am also going to try to get in to see a local OCD specialist therapist.   I want to get as many opinions as possible.